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Second / Silver.

So people actually don't like Corbyn. Who woulda thunk it?

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

As someone who has lived there, that's not how I remember it!

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

There is a bigger problem for Brits, the number of well paid skilled jobs that would afford them the sort of lifestyle used to in the UK aren't two a penny. Even Australia a lot of brits have got a nasty shock of cost of living vs pay. & that is somewhere where you can get a well paid skilled job fairly easily.

Wulfrun_Phil said:

Just back from meeting Owen Smith this evening at a phone bank while spending a couple of hours canvassing fellow members on the phone.

From my sample Don is right - it is certainly not going to be a walkover for Corbyn. Compared to 2015, the Burnham/Cooper/Kendall supporters were all solidly for Smith and there was a significant amount of switching from 2015 Corbyn voters. I don't think that I had that many recent sign-ups on my list though. Others there reported similar findings.

As for Smith I was impressed by how quick witted he is as an individual, confirming the impression gained from his media appearances.

LOL.

First.

Once the others get DQed*.

* I'll think of something.

I thought this word cloud summed it best

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/767808852309991425

Shadow minister accuses Jeremy Corbyn of discrimination

Chi Onwurah says ‘in any other job, Jeremy Corbyn would have faced an industrial tribunal’ for his behaviour

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/ex-shadow-minister-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-discrimination?CMP=share_btn_tw

Wulfrun_Phil said:

From my sample Don is right - it is certainly not going to be a walkover for Corbyn. Compared to 2015, the Burnham/Cooper/Kendall supporters were all solidly for Smith and there was a significant amount of switching from 2015 Corbyn voters. I don't think that I had that many recent sign-ups on my list though. Others there reported similar findings.

By contrast, my circle in our CLP lent towards Burnham in 2015, but is now universally pro-Corbyn.

Danny565 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Shadow minister accuses Jeremy Corbyn of discrimination

Chi Onwurah says ‘in any other job, Jeremy Corbyn would have faced an industrial tribunal’ for his behaviour

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/ex-shadow-minister-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-discrimination?CMP=share_btn_tw

The desperation from these MPs continues to get greater.

For all Corbyn's many flaws, I don't think there's many people who would seriously believe he's a racist (or at least, not racist against anyone who isn't Jewish anyway).

Jews don't count?

Philip_Thompson said:

Danny565 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Shadow minister accuses Jeremy Corbyn of discrimination

Chi Onwurah says ‘in any other job, Jeremy Corbyn would have faced an industrial tribunal’ for his behaviour

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/ex-shadow-minister-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-discrimination?CMP=share_btn_tw

The desperation from these MPs continues to get greater.

For all Corbyn's many flaws, I don't think there's many people who would seriously believe he's a racist (or at least, not racist against anyone who isn't Jewish anyway).

Jews don't count?

He appears to be racist against Americans too.

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Saying English speaking countries rather than British Empire is much more effective (and it includes the US unlike the Commonwealth)

I’m not sure what this proves (apart from the obvious fact that I’ve got too much time on my hands), but I’ve compiled a medal table according to language. It’s not very scientific, as it’s based on the main or official language(s) of each nation, rather than of the individual competitor. In the case of countries with more than one official language, I’ve divided the medals between the two main languages (any more than two would make things too complicated, e.g. South Africa with eleven…).

Half-medals have been rounded up to integers to make the table look neater! Only languages with a medal total of 10 or more are shown.

Go English!

	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
English	99	95	85	279
Chinese	27	18	28	73
Russian	22	25	28	75
Spanish	19	13	18	50
German	19	11	17	47
French	16	23	25	64
Japanese	12	8	21	41
Korean	11	6	11	28
Dutch	9	8	5	22
Italian	8	12	8	28
Hungarian	8	3	4	15
Portuguese	7	6	7	20
Croatian	5	3	2	10
Uzbek	4	2	7	13
Danish	2	6	7	15
Swedish	2	6	3	11
Arabic	2	4	9	15
Polish	2	3	6	11
Azerbaijani	1	7	10	18
Czech	1	2	7	10

Reprobatus said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Saying English speaking countries rather than British Empire is much more effective (and it includes the US unlike the Commonwealth)

I’m not sure what this proves (apart from the obvious fact that I’ve got too much time on my hands), but I’ve compiled a medal table according to language. It’s not very scientific, as it’s based on the main or official language(s) of each nation, rather than of the individual competitor. In the case of countries with more than one official language, I’ve divided the medals between the two main languages (any more than two would make things too complicated, e.g. South Africa with eleven…).

Half-medals have been rounded up to integers to make the table look neater! Only languages with a medal total of 10 or more are shown.

Go English!

	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
English	99	95	85	279
Chinese	27	18	28	73
Russian	22	25	28	75
Spanish	19	13	18	50
German	19	11	17	47
French	16	23	25	64

The six official language of the UN are Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish. Spot the odd one out.

MTimT said:

As a Brexiteer, I am happy that no-one in Europe is trying to undo the result by pushing for a second referendum and are treating its results as irreversible. See this story which states that "Merkel said she regretted the "irreversible" Brexit decision."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-brexit-eu-c497aa60-686b-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9-20160822-story.html

But it does get me wondering why, after time and time again urging other electorates to vote until they get the right result, the EU is not pursuing that approach with the UK. Do PBers think that it is because the Eurocrats truly believe that a USE is more achievable without the UK in the fold? But how does that account for Merkel's comments?

They have not always done it if they don't think they can overturn the result, eg the Swedish and Danish votes against the Euro are still standing and neither nation has yet joined the single currency

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-targets-deputy-tom-8685583

Reprobatus said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Saying English speaking countries rather than British Empire is much more effective (and it includes the US unlike the Commonwealth)

I’m not sure what this pro

Half-medals have been rounded up to integers to make the table look neater! Only languages with a medal total of 10 or more are shown.

Go English!

	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
English	99	95	85	279
Chinese	27	18	28	73
Russian	22	25	28	75
Spanish	19	13	18	50
German	19	11	17	47
French	16	23	25	64
Japanese	12	8	21	41
Korean	11	6	11	28
Dutch	9	8	5	22
Italian	8	12	8	28
Hungarian	8	3	4	15
Portuguese	7	6	7	20
Croatian	5	3	2	10
Uzbek	4	2	7	13
Danish	2	6	7	15
Swedish	2	6	3	11
Arabic	2	4	9	15
Polish	2	3	6	11
Azerbaijani	1	7	10	18
Czech	1	2	7	10

Yes, case proved and also goes to show why we are so lazy at learning foreign languages

MTimT said:

As a Brexiteer, I am happy that no-one in Europe is trying to undo the result by pushing for a second referendum and are treating its results as irreversible. See this story which states that "Merkel said she regretted the "irreversible" Brexit decision."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-brexit-eu-c497aa60-686b-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9-20160822-story.html

But it does get me wondering why, after time and time again urging other electorates to vote until they get the right result, the EU is not pursuing that approach with the UK. Do PBers think that it is because the Eurocrats truly believe that a USE is more achievable without the UK in the fold? But how does that account for Merkel's comments?

Everyone else has said no to an EU proposal so they can come back with a slightly amended version and still retain forward momentum.

We've told them we want to leave - a compromise with us would result in a reverse manouvre

Members of the leader’s office have already been quietly texting former shadow cabinet members to see if they are prepared to come back if Mr Corbyn wins the leadership contest.

A source insisted several former frontbenchers have been receptive to the proposal.

But one "moderate" apparently quoted as saying “I got the text. I told them to f*** off.”

A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:

Hillary 46.5 nc
Trump 41 +0.5

Since the start on August 1st:

Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44
Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41

Remarkable stability since the beginning of August.
In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.

Charles said:

MTimT said:

As a Brexiteer, I am happy that no-one in Europe is trying to undo the result by pushing for a second referendum and are treating its results as irreversible. See this story which states that "Merkel said she regretted the "irreversible" Brexit decision."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-brexit-eu-c497aa60-686b-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9-20160822-story.html

But it does get me wondering why, after time and time again urging other electorates to vote until they get the right result, the EU is not pursuing that approach with the UK. Do PBers think that it is because the Eurocrats truly believe that a USE is more achievable without the UK in the fold? But how does that account for Merkel's comments?

Everyone else has said no to an EU proposal so they can come back with a slightly amended version and still retain forward momentum.

We've told them we want to leave - a compromise with us would result in a reverse manouvre

Tsipras's referendum gambit during the debt crisis also changed the game. They don't want to give anyone the impression that a national government can use a referendum as a tactic to extract concessions.

Danny565 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Danny565 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Shadow minister accuses Jeremy Corbyn of discrimination

Chi Onwurah says ‘in any other job, Jeremy Corbyn would have faced an industrial tribunal’ for his behaviour

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/ex-shadow-minister-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-discrimination?CMP=share_btn_tw

The desperation from these MPs continues to get greater.

For all Corbyn's many flaws, I don't think there's many people who would seriously believe he's a racist (or at least, not racist against anyone who isn't Jewish anyway).

Jews don't count?

Yes, they do - unfortunately, a lot of left-wingers (Corbyn included) have a "blind spot" when it comes to racism against Jewish people, because they wrongly think by nature it's impossible to be racist against "white" people.

However, that's neither here nor there when it comes to discussing Chi Onwurah; I don't think there's anyone who seriously believes Corbyn dismissed her because she is black. This is just yet another desperate lie from these MPs, to go on the scrapheap along with that utter nonsense one of them was spinning about John McDonnell "breaking into her office" not so long ago.

You can't be racist if ur non white or sexist if ur woman, according to the twitterati.

Meanwhile in Sweden.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3753225/Boy-eight-dies-GRENADE-thrown-bedroom-slept-amid-gangland-feud-involving-Somali-criminals-Sweden.html

PlatoSaid said:

AndyJS said:

"Germany plans to tell its citizens to stockpile food and water in case of an attack or catastrophe for the first time since the end of the Cold War, according to reports.
The proposals, which Angela Merkel’s government is set to discuss at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday, have not yet been made public.
But according to details leaked to the German press they include advice to citizens to stockpile enough food for ten days and clean drinking water for five days.
“The population should be urged by appropriate means to keep two litres of drinking water per person per day,” Frankfurter Allgemeine Sontagszeitung quoted a government paper as saying."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/german-defence-plan-tells-citizens-to-hoard-food-and-water/

I think putting up walls around their cities to keep the refugees out might help.
It surely did for the communities of 5th century europe.

https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/767820852377288704

nunu said:

Danny565 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Danny565 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Shadow minister accuses Jeremy Corbyn of discrimination

Chi Onwurah says ‘in any other job, Jeremy Corbyn would have faced an industrial tribunal’ for his behaviour

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/22/ex-shadow-minister-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-discrimination?CMP=share_btn_tw

The desperation from these MPs continues to get greater.

For all Corbyn's many flaws, I don't think there's many people who would seriously believe he's a racist (or at least, not racist against anyone who isn't Jewish anyway).

Jews don't count?

Yes, they do - unfortunately, a lot of left-wingers (Corbyn included) have a "blind spot" when it comes to racism against Jewish people, because they wrongly think by nature it's impossible to be racist against "white" people.

However, that's neither here nor there when it comes to discussing Chi Onwurah; I don't think there's anyone who seriously believes Corbyn dismissed her because she is black. This is just yet another desperate lie from these MPs, to go on the scrapheap along with that utter nonsense one of them was spinning about John McDonnell "breaking into her office" not so long ago.

You can't be racist if ur non white or sexist if ur woman, according to the twitterati.

Meanwhile in Sweden.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3753225/Boy-eight-dies-GRENADE-thrown-bedroom-slept-amid-gangland-feud-involving-Somali-criminals-Sweden.html

I've been telling for years how bad things are in Malmo and the rest of Sweden.

Charles said:

MTimT said:

As a Brexiteer, I am happy that no-one in Europe is trying to undo the result by pushing for a second referendum and are treating its results as irreversible. See this story which states that "Merkel said she regretted the "irreversible" Brexit decision."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-brexit-eu-c497aa60-686b-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9-20160822-story.html

But it does get me wondering why, after time and time again urging other electorates to vote until they get the right result, the EU is not pursuing that approach with the UK. Do PBers think that it is because the Eurocrats truly believe that a USE is more achievable without the UK in the fold? But how does that account for Merkel's comments?

Everyone else has said no to an EU proposal so they can come back with a slightly amended version and still retain forward momentum.

We've told them we want to leave - a compromise with us would result in a reverse manouvre

Indeed. It would be more immediately damaging to the project to do that, and even damaging to appear to be giving us too good a deal (which is not the same as giving us a good deal) as if they came back with an offer so good it might tempt us to stay (leaving aside the moment the political difficulty in UK politicians putting the break on Brexit even in such a scenario) then they would open themselves up to essentially blackmail. You'd get referendums to leave popping up all over, in the secure knowledge that's how you get the EU to offer you a great deal in order to stay.

bigjohnowls said:

Members of the leader’s office have already been quietly texting former shadow cabinet members to see if they are prepared to come back if Mr Corbyn wins the leadership contest.

A source insisted several former frontbenchers have been receptive to the proposal.

But one "moderate" apparently quoted as saying “I got the text. I told them to f*** off.”

I'm struggling to see why it'd be a good idea from either side. Ok, Corbyn gets to play the magnanimous card, but either he was crap to them before and they quit, and why would he change now so why offer them a role, or they messed with him for no reason and who's to say they won't again.

On the other side, my recollection is one of them has already unresigned, which looks bloody silly, and it will be very hard to anyone crawling back to be credible - they said he was crap at his job, not that his ideas were bad and he couldn't win among the members, so him beating them is no reason to accept a job back, their belief he would lead them to disaster would still apply.

Speedy said:

A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:

Hillary 46.5 nc
Trump 41 +0.5

Since the start on August 1st:

Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44
Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41

Remarkable stability since the beginning of August.
In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.

Hillary's lead has clearly narrowed a little since the DNC convention and today's Monmouth Ohio poll had Hillary ahead by 4%, Romney lost Ohio by 3%, McCain by almost 5% so Trump is presently doing a little better than McCain and a little worse than Romney (of course after Romney won the first debate he took the lead, although he failed to capitalise on it)

IanB2 said:

oxfordsimon said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

I've not been, although it's on my list of places to visit. I was however in Australia during their Autumn, where it was almost always hot and sunny, and recall that the dreadful weather in NZ was often news on Ozzie TV

There's more to life than weather. New Zealand has always looked magnificent to my eyes: if I wasn't British, I'd rather like to be a New Zealander. Plus, they speak English (massive plus for me and for other monoglots) and if your more into the outdoors than the cultural high life it has obvious attractions.

However, I don't understand particularly why Britons dismayed by the vote to leave the EU would emigrate there. Surely they are aware that New Zealand isn't in the EU, either? Canada has apparently seen a similar surge of interest. I would have thought the places that most Europhiles might be keen to emigrate to should Britain leave the EU might be a tad more, er, European. But apparently not.

Cookie said:

IanB2 said:

oxfordsimon said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

I've not been, although it's on my list of places to visit. I was however in Australia during their Autumn, where it was almost always hot and sunny, and recall that the dreadful weather in NZ was often news on Ozzie TV

There's more to life than weather. New Zealand has always looked magnificent to my eyes: if I wasn't British, I'd rather like to be a New Zealander. Plus, they speak English (massive plus for me and for other monoglots) and if your more into the outdoors than the cultural high life it has obvious attractions.

However, I don't understand particularly why Britons dismayed by the vote to leave the EU would emigrate there. Surely they are aware that New Zealand isn't in the EU, either? Canada has apparently seen a similar surge of interest. I would have thought the places that most Europhiles might be keen to emigrate to should Britain leave the EU might be a tad more, er, European. But apparently not.

Canada is run by a hip young liberal. In addition to being a very fine country, that will no doubt play well with many in considering options.

welshowl said:

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MTimT said:

As a Brexiteer, I am happy that no-one in Europe is trying to undo the result by pushing for a second referendum and are treating its results as irreversible. See this story which states that "Merkel said she regretted the "irreversible" Brexit decision."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-brexit-eu-c497aa60-686b-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9-20160822-story.html

But it does get me wondering why, after time and time again urging other electorates to vote until they get the right result, the EU is not pursuing that approach with the UK. Do PBers think that it is because the Eurocrats truly believe that a USE is more achievable without the UK in the fold? But how does that account for Merkel's comments?

Because they know that if they get eg the Irish to vote again on a Treaty, that the don't want to leave Europe and so will at a push cave in.

We actually DO want to leave Europe already and if we were told to vote again they would get the biggest "who the f**k do you think you are" result that would make the Winchester 1997 by-election look like a good idea.

TL;DR it would be pointless to get us to vote again so why waste time suggesting it.

Quite. The Rubicon was crossed and they know it.

It's the instability caused by a British government delaying indefinitely until we get an optimal deal that they're afraid of. Triggering Article 50 is completely at Theresa May's discretion and they know.

Though once triggered it's two years and out. For this reason I simply cannot see that in the real world, behind the scenes, informal negotiations aren't ( or won't be soon ) going on. Both sides have much to gain by being sensible. We are going to want some inkling of their position before firing the starting gun, they are going to want to know we're going to play some kind of ball, and not go for very hard Brexit.

The essential thing about such preliminary negotiations is that they are not conducted in public. I am sure the FCO has been working away for weeks - its one reason why we have embassies in this enlightened and wired world.

MTimT said:

Speedy said:

MTimT said:

HYUFD said:

nunu said:

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London

Could never move to Australia:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zhoPtDprVU8

That's a baby!

There is that risk yes, though Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide are generally reasonably safe from too many unwelcome creatures

Not for the faint of heart:

http://www.conservationinstitute.org/10-of-the-worlds-largest-spiders/

PS Of these, I have only come face to face with a camel spider, in the Empty Quarter in Yemen.

What were you doing over there ?
Trying to find the lost city of the Queen of Sheba ?

No, this was about 50-100 miles east of Ma'reb (supposed home of Sheba). I was in the Embassy, a long whiles back.

It was in the days when understanding what was going on in the country you were posted to was considered important, so I would occasionally take a week out just to drive deep into the remoter parts of the country for a shufti. On this occasion, I'd taken someone to see the marvelous ruins in the Jawf valley, including the amazing walled city on a tell - Baraqish, and we just carried on for a while once we hit the sand to see whether there was anyone out there. Found some bedu and stayed with them overnight.

If you tried to take that trip today you would be lucky to survive execution from the warlords.

It will probably be many years or decades for a foreigner to be able to visit those places again.
So cherish those pictures if you took any.

ThreeQuidder said:

HYUFD said:

Reprobatus said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Saying English speaking countries rather than British Empire is much more effective (and it includes the US unlike the Commonwealth)

I’m not sure what this pro

Half-medals have been rounded up to integers to make the table look neater! Only languages with a medal total of 10 or more are shown.

Go English!

	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
English	99	95	85	279
Chinese	27	18	28	73
Russian	22	25	28	75
Spanish	19	13	18	50
German	19	11	17	47
French	16	23	25	64
Japanese	12	8	21	41
Korean	11	6	11	28
Dutch	9	8	5	22
Italian	8	12	8	28
Hungarian	8	3	4	15
Portuguese	7	6	7	20
Croatian	5	3	2	10
Uzbek	4	2	7	13
Danish	2	6	7	15
Swedish	2	6	3	11
Arabic	2	4	9	15
Polish	2	3	6	11
Azerbaijani	1	7	10	18

Yes, case proved and also goes to show why we are so lazy at learning foreign languages

We don't need to.

I've been in France for a couple of days and nearly everybody that I've spoken French to has replied in English.

Yes but that is the French for you, if you try to speak a little German or Italian or Spanish they will generally respond in their own language and will be impressed you made the effort

HYUFD said:

Speedy said:

A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:

Hillary 46.5 nc
Trump 41 +0.5

Since the start on August 1st:

Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44
Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41

Remarkable stability since the beginning of August.
In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.

Hillary's lead has clearly narrowed a little since the DNC convention and today's Monmouth Ohio poll had Hillary ahead by 4%, Romney lost Ohio by 3%, McCain by almost 5% so Trump is presently doing a little better than McCain and a little worse than Romney (of course after Romney won the first debate he took the lead, although he failed to capitalise on it)

National polls don't mean much, it's the state polls that matter.

The national polls are more about morale, but the state polls say how close Trump is to winning.
And right now he is 8-10 points behind in Pennsylvania, 4-6 in Ohio and about 4-5 in Florida.

Pennsylvania is the key, that is why Hillary is still campaigning there and throwing money there, despite being ahead by almost double digits.

Trump needs to win all 3, Hillary needs to win only 1.

kle4 said:

Cookie said:

IanB2 said:

oxfordsimon said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

I've not been, although it's on my list of places to visit. I was however in Australia during their Autumn, where it was almost always hot and sunny, and recall that the dreadful weather in NZ was often news on Ozzie TV

There's more to life than weather. New Zealand has always looked magnificent to my eyes: if I wasn't British, I'd rather like to be a New Zealander. Plus, they speak English (massive plus for me and for other monoglots) and if your more into the outdoors than the cultural high life it has obvious attractions.

However, I don't understand particularly why Britons dismayed by the vote to leave the EU would emigrate there. Surely they are aware that New Zealand isn't in the EU, either? Canada has apparently seen a similar surge of interest. I would have thought the places that most Europhiles might be keen to emigrate to should Britain leave the EU might be a tad more, er, European. But apparently not.

Canada is run by a hip young liberal. In addition to being a very fine country, that will no doubt play well with many in considering options.

Indeed and Quebec is more Francophile than France

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London, probably the closest nation to the UK of any on earth, so whether moving there really counts as emigration is debateable

I lived in Christchurch for a year. Best climate of anywhere that I know. Dry and sunny all year round, with hot summer days and frosty days in winter that warm up to t shirt weather by lunchtime. It rains a few days a month, but rarely more than 2 days in a row. Nelson and Gisborne are even better. Wellington is famously windy, and Auckland is nearly subtropical. More Rain but clears quickly.

Anyone who thinks NZ has a crap climate needs to get their head examined!

Australia is more popular for migrants as salaries are higher than the UK, while NZ are about the same as here. Of Australian cities I really rate Adelaide for climate and general ambience.

IanB2 said:

oxfordsimon said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

I've not been, although it's on my list of places to visit. I was however in Australia during their Autumn, where it was almost always hot and sunny, and recall that the dreadful weather in NZ was often news on Ozzie TV

If the weather in NZ is so continuously awful how do they manage to make some really jolly good wines? We regularly take a very nice NZ Sauvignon Blanc at £6.50 a bottle, which of far better quality for the price than anything one can get from Europe or even Australia.

I rather think that the original comment that New Zealand is "cold, miserable and it always rains." Is just plain bollocks from a serial moaner.

Speedy said:

MTimT said:

Speedy said:

MTimT said:

HYUFD said:

nunu said:

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London

Could never move to Australia:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zhoPtDprVU8

That's a baby!

There is that risk yes, though Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide are generally reasonably safe from too many unwelcome creatures

Not for the faint of heart:

http://www.conservationinstitute.org/10-of-the-worlds-largest-spiders/

PS Of these, I have only come face to face with a camel spider, in the Empty Quarter in Yemen.

What were you doing over there ?
Trying to find the lost city of the Queen of Sheba ?

No, this was about 50-100 miles east of Ma'reb (supposed home of Sheba). I was in the Embassy, a long whiles back.

It was in the days when understanding what was going on in the country you were posted to was considered important, so I would occasionally take a week out just to drive deep into the remoter parts of the country for a shufti. On this occasion, I'd taken someone to see the marvelous ruins in the Jawf valley, including the amazing walled city on a tell - Baraqish, and we just carried on for a while once we hit the sand to see whether there was anyone out there. Found some bedu and stayed with them overnight.

If you tried to take that trip today you would be lucky to survive execution from the warlords.

It will probably be many years or decades for a foreigner to be able to visit those places again.
So cherish those pictures if you took any.

Even in those days the tribes in the Jawf were particularly fractious. The trip was not without its interesting moments involving heavily armed tribesmen.

HurstLlama said:

IanB2 said:

oxfordsimon said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

It reminds them of Wales?

I've not been, although it's on my list of places to visit. I was however in Australia during their Autumn, where it was almost always hot and sunny, and recall that the dreadful weather in NZ was often news on Ozzie TV

If the weather in NZ is so continuously awful how do they manage to make some really jolly good wines? We regularly take a very nice NZ Sauvignon Blanc at £6.50 a bottle, which of far better quality for the price than anything one can get from Europe or even Australia.

I rather think that the original comment that New Zealand is "cold, miserable and it always rains." Is just plain bollocks from a serial moaner.

Maybe it was on Ozzie TV because it was unusually awful? Or the Ozzie's just enjoy making NZ out to be a wet and windy place. I wasn't there long enough to tell.

Edit/ on the wine-making, NZ is on a latitude that means the sun will be hot, when it's out. I rather suspect they have less need for irrigation than the Australian vineyards...

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Anyone who thinks NZ has a crap climate needs to get their head examined!

And also to drink some of their wine. You couldn't grow grapes like that in the UK.

I suppose it makes a huge difference if you're in Hawkes Bay vs Dunedin.

MTimT said:

welsh owl said:

Though once triggered it's two years and out. For this reason I simply cannot see that in the real world, behind the scenes, informal negotiations aren't ( or won't be soon ) going on. Both sides have much to gain by being sensible. We are going to want some inkling of their position before firing the starting gun, they are going to want to know we're going to play some kind of ball, and not go for very hard Brexit.

What would PBers want? To me, something like this would be good:

1. No UK payments to the EU budget period
2. No incorporation of EU law into British law; supremacy of UK courts
3. Modified freedom of movement (reciprocal for EU citizens in UK/UK citizens in EU)
- grandfathering for those already in the country/EU
- anyone with a valid job offer or intending to invest in a new business gets automatic work visa
- other rules at discretion of EU/UK but might include fast track to residency/citizenship
4. FTA on manufactured goods and parts
5. Services - I am not sure what we could or should be asking for here. Clearly at least as good as the Swiss/Canadians/US.

I'd be happy with that. With one addition, the UK gets the final say on who we let in and who we chuck out.

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London, probably the closest nation to the UK of any on earth, so whether moving there really counts as emigration is debateable

I lived in Christchurch for a year. Best climate of anywhere that I know. Dry and sunny all year round, with hot summer days and frosty days in winter that warm up to t shirt weather by lunchtime. It rains a few days a month, but rarely more than 2 days in a row. Nelson and Gisborne are even better. Wellington is famously windy, and Auckland is nearly subtropical. More Rain but clears quickly.

Anyone who thinks NZ has a crap climate needs to get their head examined!

Australia is more popular for migrants as salaries are higher than the UK, while NZ are about the same as here. Of Australian cities I really rate Adelaide for climate and general ambience.

Adelaide is a mini Melbourne in many ways only bit warmer. Proper Mediterranean climate.

Replying to @kle4

You'd get referendums to leave popping up all over, in the secure knowledge that's how you get the EU to offer you a great deal in order to stay.

IIRC, Boris Johnson actually stated that his ideal was to use a Leave decision as a lever to get a better Remain deal.


it will be very hard to anyone crawling back to be credible - they said he was crap at his job, not that his ideas were bad and he couldn't win among the members, so him beating them is no reason to accept a job back, their belief he would lead them to disaster would still apply.

Not so sure they wouldn't be credible. It is arguably the PLP's duty to warn the membership of their fears about GE chances. Having done so, if the members are determined to stick with Mr Corbyn, then the MPs may consider it their duty to try to make it work.

welshowl said:

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London, probably the closest nation to the UK of any on earth, so whether moving there really counts as emigration is debateable

I lived in Christchurch for a year. Best climate of anywhere that I know. Dry and sunny all year round, with hot summer days and frosty days in winter that warm up to t shirt weather by lunchtime. It rains a few days a month, but rarely more than 2 days in a row. Nelson and Gisborne are even better. Wellington is famously windy, and Auckland is nearly subtropical. More Rain but clears quickly.

Anyone who thinks NZ has a crap climate needs to get their head examined!

Australia is more popular for migrants as salaries are higher than the UK, while NZ are about the same as here. Of Australian cities I really rate Adelaide for climate and general ambience.

Adelaide is a mini Melbourne in many ways only bit warmer. Proper Mediterranean climate.

Adelaide was a bit pedestrian compared to Sydney and Melbourne, and with a surprising few excessively Scottish natives. But the country a few hours north of Adelaide was the most spectacular in Australia (that I saw).

Speedy said:

HYUFD said:

Speedy said:

A weekly update to my 2016 average daily tracking poll:

Hillary 46.5 nc
Trump 41 +0.5

Since the start on August 1st:

Hillary 46.5 46.5 47 47 44
Trump 41 40.5 41 41 41

Remarkable stability since the beginning of August.
In the state polls Trump has slumped in Florida and losing more ground in Ohio, that is more significant than the national picture.

Hillary's lead has clearly narrowed a little since the DNC convention and today's Monmouth Ohio poll had Hillary ahead by 4%, Romney lost Ohio by 3%, McCain by almost 5% so Trump is presently doing a little better than McCain and a little worse than Romney (of course after Romney won the first debate he took the lead, although he failed to capitalise on it)

National polls don't mean much, it's the state polls that matter.

The national polls are more about morale, but the state polls say how close Trump is to winning.
And right now he is 8-10 points behind in Pennsylvania, 4-6 in Ohio and about 4-5 in Florida.

Pennsylvania is the key, that is why Hillary is still campaigning there and throwing money there, despite being ahead by almost double digits.

Trump needs to win all 3, Hillary needs to win only 1.

The national polls presently have Hillary up by 5% according to RCP, ie about on a par with Ohio and Florida, I agree if Hillary wins Pennsylvania she probably wins the presidency and she is now doing slightly better there than nationally. However 1 poll yesterday had Trump ahead in the state and if the race gets tighter nationally it will get tighter there too

MTimT said:

HYUFD said:

Yes but that is the French for you, if you try to speak a little German or Italian or Spanish they will generally respond in their own language and will be impressed you made the effort

That, in itself, is a huge change from 10-20 years ago. Then, unless you spoke French, they'd sneer at you, and if you did try French, they'd speak at 200 words a minute to ensure you did not understand them.

It is just they have found another way to express their superiority, ie they speak your language while you cannot really speak theirs, hence they are the more sophisticated and cultured people

An update on y0kel's favourate CIA agent:

https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/767811204479913984

Trump still ahead in Utah.

https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/767810769316700160

And he failed to get 275 signatures in the entire state of Tennessee.

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/767805504794099712

As I said, only Trump can defeat Trump (and he's doing a very good job so far).

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:

foxinsoxuk said:

HYUFD said:

surbiton said:

Why do Brits want to emigrate to New Zealand ? It is cold, miserable and it always rains.

They don't, far more Brits emigrate to Australia than New Zealand, which has a higher gdp per capita and better weather than both us and the Kiwis while still keeping the same language and most of the same culture. New Zealand is basically rural and suburban UK minus London, probably the closest nation to the UK of any on earth, so whether moving there really counts as emigration is debateable

I lived in Christchurch for a year. Best climate of anywhere that I know. Dry and sunny all year round, with hot summer days and frosty days in winter that warm up to t shirt weather by lunchtime. It rains a few days a month, but rarely more than 2 days in a row. Nelson and Gisborne are even better. Wellington is famously windy, and Auckland is nearly subtropical. More Rain but clears quickly.

Anyone who thinks NZ has a crap climate needs to get their head examined!

Australia is more popular for migrants as salaries are higher than the UK, while NZ are about the same as here. Of Australian cities I really rate Adelaide for climate and general ambience.

Adelaide is a mini Melbourne in many ways only bit warmer. Proper Mediterranean climate.

Really? Adelaide was the place in Australia that most confounded my expectations in a negative way (versus Brisbane in a positive way). It's flat, desolate, down-at-heel, albeit surrounded by some amazing viticulture. Not at all like the 'European' city I'd read about.

Well it is certainly flat. I remember driving up the Clare Valley, where a lot of the best wine comes from, and there's no valley there, nor any hills.

MTimT said:

3. Modified freedom of movement (reciprocal for EU citizens in UK/UK citizens in EU)
- grandfathering for those already in the country/EU
- anyone with a valid job offer or intending to invest in a new business gets automatic work visa
- other rules at discretion of EU/UK but might include fast track to residency/citizenship

That reads like an obscurantist way of saying 'no change'. For example what would a fast track to residency mean? If you're living and working in a country, you're a resident immediately. There's no need to fast-track anything.

For mean personally, the idea that a French person would need to jump through bureaucratic hoops to acquire the right to live in the UK or vice versa is akin to barbarism.