politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs. May’s new PM ratings honeymoon is bigger than Thatcher
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The so-called consumables people are discussing here are bloody weird.0
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http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.0 -
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?0 -
Mr. Max, what's the gist of the Times article?0
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The train soundbite was a mistake, but leaving aside politics does raise some interesting questions about what a train service might look like if it were invented from scratch today.
Lots of things haven't changed much, which today are pretty anachronistic.
Visual signals (my line has just replace semaphore)
The location of stations (aiding integration with car transport outside cities, big stations on the M25)
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I can't see the full article but this bit in the opening is interesting:MaxPB said:http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.
3) The UK economy would grow more strongly within the EU, and the single market, than outside.
That's a long way from the Armageddon being predicted before the vote.0 -
You learn something new every day.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?
I discover there is also panda dung tea (fertilised with rather than excreted), $35,000 for 500 grams.
Off to Edinburgh Zoo with a shovel.0 -
Terry Pratchett made the point that many so-called delicacies are a result of poor people on the brink of starvation. Nobody would willingly come up with the idea that swallow-nest spit is a good idea. When your betters are eating all the good stuff, you have to get creative.Sean_F said:
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?0 -
Jez in tune with Trump here...Pulpstar said:
Owen Smith and Jezza are playing a game of idiot top trumps:PlatoSaid said:Just for our train fans
Owen Smith
"Isambard Kingdom Brunel wld look at our trains and he'd recognise them because they haven't changed since he built them- we need to invest"
Owen: "I'll start with lets go soft on ISIS"
Jez: "Won't bother with enacting NATO art 5"
Owen: "Trains haven't changed since 1850s"0 -
The Italians managed to turn polenta into a trendy food. If they can do that with something that tastes like heated MDF, anything is possible.0
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Semaphores are more reliable.Jonathan said:The train soundbite was a mistake, but leaving aside politics does raise some interesting questions about what a train service might look like if it were invented from scratch today.
Lots of things haven't changed much, which today are pretty anachronistic.
Visual signals (my line has just replace semaphore)
The location of stations (aiding integration with car transport outside cities, big stations on the M25)0 -
My gf made me try a polenta pizza in Milan recently. It felt like a wasted meal, literally no taste.AlastairMeeks said:The Italians managed to turn polenta into a trendy food. If they can do that with something that tastes like heated MDF, anything is possible.
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"Experts, listen to us or else".Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, what's the gist of the Times article?
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So many more...Jonathan said:The train soundbite was a mistake, but leaving aside politics does raise some interesting questions about what a train service might look like if it were invented from scratch today.
Lots of things haven't changed much, which today are pretty anachronistic.
Visual signals (my line has just replace semaphore)
The location of stations (aiding integration with car transport outside cities, big stations on the M25)
Guards still employed solely to open and close the doors
Sunday working classes as overtime
Multiple incompatible electrification systems
Narrow gauge and low bridges that prevent double decker trains being used0 -
Definitely the case in Cambodia, under the Khmer Rouge.John_M said:
Terry Pratchett made the point that many so-called delicacies are a result of poor people on the brink of starvation. Nobody would willingly come up with the idea that swallow-nest spit is a good idea. When your betters are eating all the good stuff, you have to get creative.Sean_F said:
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?
During rationing, badger became quite popular over here (and badger goulash is much prized in former Yugoslavia)
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We'd never build it because of NIMBYs!Jonathan said:The train soundbite was a mistake, but leaving aside politics does raise some interesting questions about what a train service might look like if it were invented from scratch today.
Lots of things haven't changed much, which today are pretty anachronistic.
Visual signals (my line has just replace semaphore)
The location of stations (aiding integration with car transport outside cities, big stations on the M25)0 -
Polenta is just another type of vomit.AlastairMeeks said:The Italians managed to turn polenta into a trendy food. If they can do that with something that tastes like heated MDF, anything is possible.
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Mr. Max, sounds about right.
The IFS, under the same chap, criticised an early Osborne Budget for being regressive due to lower forecast benefits spending. The decline was due to a projected fall in unemployment, meaning less unemployment benefit.
I know I tell this anecdote reasonably often, but it's so indicative of the idiotic approach (In that instance, at least) taken by the IFS that it makes me seriously doubt their objectivity.0 -
Ha, true. Have any of these exotic foods ever come from people who could afford to keep cows and eat steak?John_M said:
Terry Pratchett made the point that many so-called delicacies are a result of poor people on the brink of starvation. Nobody would willingly come up with the idea that swallow-nest spit is a good idea. When your betters are eating all the good stuff, you have to get creative.Sean_F said:
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?0 -
No, its entirely consistent. That's why I got so frustrated. Even the much vilified pre-EUref report said exactly this. The argument is about the degree of shortfall.tlg86 said:
I can't see the full article but this bit in the opening is interesting:MaxPB said:http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.
3) The UK economy would grow more strongly within the EU, and the single market, than outside.
That's a long way from the Armageddon being predicted before the vote.
The even more vilified Treasury report forecast predicted a shortfall. The dishonesty was in the way it was presented i.e. as a 6% absolute contraction.
The macro indicators (e.g. GDP) are, over the forecast period, pretty much noise. The IFS tends to favour NIESR's model in their reports. That model has shortfalls of 1.8% (EEA), 2.1% (FTA), 3.2 (WTO) by 2030. If the effect of reduced trade does affect productivity (the jury is still out), the numbers look considerably worse.
Think about those numbers. Statistically, over 14 years, they're not far from noise. As I said last night, the economic effects are going to be sectoral.0 -
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You know that, and I know that, but I was referring to Osborne's presentation of the numbers. Perhaps Paul Johnson should have intervened on the day Osborne presented his numbers and pointed out that he was being incredibly disingenuous. Or perhaps Paul Johnson was happy for Osborne to do as he pleased because he probably thought that was the best way to win.John_M said:
No, its entirely consistent. That's why I got so frustrated. Even the much vilified pre-EUref report said exactly this. The argument is about the degree of shortfall.tlg86 said:
I can't see the full article but this bit in the opening is interesting:MaxPB said:http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.
3) The UK economy would grow more strongly within the EU, and the single market, than outside.
That's a long way from the Armageddon being predicted before the vote.
The even more vilified Treasury report forecast predicted a shortfall. The dishonesty was in the way it was presented i.e. as a 6% absolute contraction.
The macro indicators (e.g. GDP) are, over the forecast period, pretty much noise. The IFS tends to favour NIESR's model in their reports. That model has shortfalls of 1.8% (EEA), 2.1% (FTA), 3.2 (WTO) by 2030. If the effect of reduced trade does affect productivity (the jury is still out), the numbers look considerably worse.
Think about those numbers. Statistically, over 14 years, they're not far from noise. As I said last night, the economic effects are going to be sectoral.0 -
It was one of those perverse things. When the economic arguments were presented, they were so clearly being dishonest in the presentation that it immediately aroused my suspicions. With no positive case for the EU (they really should have asked PB, even I can think of a raft of positives), reduced to fundamental dishonesty in their strongest suite...it wasn't persuasive.tlg86 said:
You know that, and I know that, but I was referring to Osborne's presentation of the numbers. Perhaps Paul Johnson should have intervened on the day Osborne presented his numbers and pointed out that he was being incredibly disingenuous. Or perhaps Paul Johnson was happy for Osborne to do as he pleased because he probably thought that was the best way to win.John_M said:
No, its entirely consistent. That's why I got so frustrated. Even the much vilified pre-EUref report said exactly this. The argument is about the degree of shortfall.tlg86 said:
I can't see the full article but this bit in the opening is interesting:MaxPB said:http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.
3) The UK economy would grow more strongly within the EU, and the single market, than outside.
That's a long way from the Armageddon being predicted before the vote.
The even more vilified Treasury report forecast predicted a shortfall. The dishonesty was in the way it was presented i.e. as a 6% absolute contraction.
The macro indicators (e.g. GDP) are, over the forecast period, pretty much noise. The IFS tends to favour NIESR's model in their reports. That model has shortfalls of 1.8% (EEA), 2.1% (FTA), 3.2 (WTO) by 2030. If the effect of reduced trade does affect productivity (the jury is still out), the numbers look considerably worse.
Think about those numbers. Statistically, over 14 years, they're not far from noise. As I said last night, the economic effects are going to be sectoral.0 -
What amazes me is that The Times published a letter from 364 "experts" 35 years ago, they've learned nothing since then.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, sounds about right.
The IFS, under the same chap, criticised an early Osborne Budget for being regressive due to lower forecast benefits spending. The decline was due to a projected fall in unemployment, meaning less unemployment benefit.
I know I tell this anecdote reasonably often, but it's so indicative of the idiotic approach (In that instance, at least) taken by the IFS that it makes me seriously doubt their objectivity.0 -
Mr. M, that also ties into the 'no positive argument' line.
They could've presented it as "Of course we'll have growth outside the EU. But inside, we'll get even more."
Instead it was described as "Leave as we'll lose £70bn. Every household* will be £4,300 worse off."
*That, of course, was dubious twice over as it just divided the forecast worst case scenario GDP difference decades into the future by the number of households *and* it's a difference in increase, not a decline from current levels.
Edited extra bit: quite. Experts should be listened to, but not mindlessly obeyed/agreed with as if they're Neolithic shamans. Suspension of critical faculties because someone has expertise in an area is moronic.0 -
Interesting article in the Economist from a week or two ago. It was looking at the impact of Chinese imports on UK Manufacturing and resulting manufacturing job losses since China joined the WTO.
It pretty much matches the areas of high Brexit vote. It goes on the argue that Britain has been very open to trade and has benefited overall but has been piss poor in compensating the areas affected on the downside. For example on retraining budgets on people who have lost skilled jobs, the UK spent only 20% per person that Germany did.
Northern and Midland manufacturing towns have been hit the worst, while the Greater London area and hinterland received a mild boost from cheaper imports. At the same time prior to China joining the WTO the UK's trade deficit averaged 1%, since then 7%.
The trend is similar elsewhere, in the USA it's estimated that 44% of the jobs lost in Manufacturing in the last decade or so have been due to cheap Chinese imports.
Basically China's growth is a big factor in labour market changes in the UK and the rise in working class dissent. But it did not suit either side to really discuss this and the whole drama was focused purely on 'Europe'.
Solving the Europe question within Britain is really only looking at part of the problem and people are going to be disappointed if focusing on trade outside the EU is going to solve any problems of flat incomes for the less skilled,0 -
It also didn't take into account per capita growth in GDP with lower immigration if we left. The Treasury model assumed the same rates of migration for Leave and Remain iirc.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, that also ties into the 'no positive argument' line.
They could've presented it as "Of course we'll have growth outside the EU. But inside, we'll get even more."
Instead it was described as "Leave as we'll lose £70bn. Every household* will be £4,300 worse off."
*That, of course, was dubious twice over as it just divided the forecast worst case scenario GDP difference decades into the future by the number of households *and* it's a difference in increase, not a decline from current levels.0 -
They utterly failed to make the positive case for the EU; saying that it's a bit crap but leaving is worse, is not positive case in any way. Backing it with a bunch of bogus stats (comparing GDP figures to the number of households to get "your family worse off by £4,300" was another one) really didn't help either.John_M said:
It was one of those perverse things. When the economic arguments were presented, they were so clearly being dishonest in the presentation that it immediately aroused my suspicions. With no positive case for the EU (they really should have asked PB, even I can think of a raft of positives), reduced to fundamental dishonesty in their strongest suite...it wasn't persuasive.tlg86 said:
You know that, and I know that, but I was referring to Osborne's presentation of the numbers. Perhaps Paul Johnson should have intervened on the day Osborne presented his numbers and pointed out that he was being incredibly disingenuous. Or perhaps Paul Johnson was happy for Osborne to do as he pleased because he probably thought that was the best way to win.John_M said:
No, its entirely consistent. That's why I got so frustrated. Even the much vilified pre-EUref report said exactly this. The argument is about the degree of shortfall.tlg86 said:
I can't see the full article but this bit in the opening is interesting:MaxPB said:http://thetimes.co.uk/article/5393361a-6571-11e6-a774-ff13af5d13cb
This is why my trust rating for the IFS is close to zero. Paul Johnson has his own agenda and narrative, he needs replacing, urgently.
3) The UK economy would grow more strongly within the EU, and the single market, than outside.
That's a long way from the Armageddon being predicted before the vote.
The even more vilified Treasury report forecast predicted a shortfall. The dishonesty was in the way it was presented i.e. as a 6% absolute contraction.
The macro indicators (e.g. GDP) are, over the forecast period, pretty much noise. The IFS tends to favour NIESR's model in their reports. That model has shortfalls of 1.8% (EEA), 2.1% (FTA), 3.2 (WTO) by 2030. If the effect of reduced trade does affect productivity (the jury is still out), the numbers look considerably worse.
Think about those numbers. Statistically, over 14 years, they're not far from noise. As I said last night, the economic effects are going to be sectoral.
The excellent article by Ms @Cyclefree the other day explains very well.0 -
It's like grappa - in days gone by the deal was that Italian peasants picked the grapes and, after the landlord had made wine from them, got the skins back by way of consolation. From this they managed to distill a strong rough spirit to drown their sorrows/celebrate their efforts.Sandpit said:
Ha, true. Have any of these exotic foods ever come from people who could afford to keep cows and eat steak?John_M said:
Terry Pratchett made the point that many so-called delicacies are a result of poor people on the brink of starvation. Nobody would willingly come up with the idea that swallow-nest spit is a good idea. When your betters are eating all the good stuff, you have to get creative.Sean_F said:
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?
Nowadays you can buy all kinds of expensive grappa in all sorts of fancy bottles, many of which will tell you precisely which type of grape the skins came from etc. etc. The better made ones taste slightly smoother than the cheaper ones but otherwise they are all much the same. Certainly I doubt anyone could identify blind the grape variety based on a strong spirit distilled from the fermented skins.0 -
As with others it seems to me that these figures are heavily influenced by the comparator. A glass half empty kind of guy would be lamenting that a significant percentage of our adult population would apparently support Corbyn. I mean, really.
His latest pearl of idiocy on NATO once again demonstrates that he has simply no clue as to what is required to keep this country safe or indeed to have any friends in world affairs. Given that choice what rational person would not support May, whatever reservations they may have?0 -
Tine to throw more rotten tomato's at economists?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/18/dismal-scientists-need-some-humility/0 -
That is an excellent point, and one that both sides of the EU argument will need to keep in mind. Globalisation doesn't go away just because we've left the political structures of the EU.RationalPlan said:Interesting article in the Economist from a week or two ago. It was looking at the impact of Chinese imports on UK Manufacturing and resulting manufacturing job losses since China joined the WTO.
It pretty much matches the areas of high Brexit vote. It goes on the argue that Britain has been very open to trade and has benefited overall but has been piss poor in compensating the areas affected on the downside. For example on retraining budgets on people who have lost skilled jobs, the UK spent only 20% per person that Germany did.
Northern and Midland manufacturing towns have been hit the worst, while the Greater London area and hinterland received a mild boost from cheaper imports. At the same time prior to China joining the WTO the UK's trade deficit averaged 1%, since then 7%.
The trend is similar elsewhere, in the USA it's estimated that 44% of the jobs lost in Manufacturing in the last decade or so have been due to cheap Chinese imports.
Basically China's growth is a big factor in labour market changes in the UK and the rise in working class dissent. But it did not suit either side to really discuss this and the whole drama was focused purely on 'Europe'.
Solving the Europe question within Britain is really only looking at part of the problem and people are going to be disappointed if focusing on trade outside the EU is going to solve any problems of flat incomes for the less skilled,0 -
The Leave vote was substantially motivated by a rejection of globalisation. One of of the tragedies of Brexit is that those who benefited most from globalisation didn't bother to spread those benefits around, while disconnection cuts them off entirely. Nothing has changed out there. Success comes from playing the globalisation game. Brexit has made success a lot harder.RationalPlan said:Interesting article in the Economist from a week or two ago. It was looking at the impact of Chinese imports on UK Manufacturing and resulting manufacturing job losses since China joined the WTO.
It pretty much matches the areas of high Brexit vote. It goes on the argue that Britain has been very open to trade and has benefited overall but has been piss poor in compensating the areas affected on the downside. For example on retraining budgets on people who have lost skilled jobs, the UK spent only 20% per person that Germany did.
Northern and Midland manufacturing towns have been hit the worst, while the Greater London area and hinterland received a mild boost from cheaper imports. At the same time prior to China joining the WTO the UK's trade deficit averaged 1%, since then 7%.
The trend is similar elsewhere, in the USA it's estimated that 44% of the jobs lost in Manufacturing in the last decade or so have been due to cheap Chinese imports.
Basically China's growth is a big factor in labour market changes in the UK and the rise in working class dissent. But it did not suit either side to really discuss this and the whole drama was focused purely on 'Europe'.
Solving the Europe question within Britain is really only looking at part of the problem and people are going to be disappointed if focusing on trade outside the EU is going to solve any problems of flat incomes for the less skilled,0 -
YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
James Hallwood
I love @jadejonestkd's bio. She's now the Olympic champion head kicker, doing #TeamGB proud! https://t.co/Zs6w6hjMuK0 -
At A-Level, most certainly not computer programming. Its a bit like doing a Law A-Level, rather than "traditional" subjects then qualifying to be a lawyer.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Also, pure code monkeying has the potential to go the way of manufacturing, plus you can keep yourself fairly easily basic computer programming. What is more difficult / usual is computer science.
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For most of his premiership, Cameron was an excellent Coalition Prime Minister.FF43 said:
Also Cameron's unpopularity in the last months of his premiership were entirely to do with the EU. For most of his office he was seen much more favourably than his party.IanB2 said:
He'll be remembered as the one whose gamble took us out of Europe. Unless of course the UK does fall apart in which case the back of the tombstone will be needed as well. Nothing really to do with being LibDem; a second coalition would not have made the gamble.Mortimer said:
Come on TSE. The latest popular (unpopular??) things poll put the Tory brand ahead of Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:I did a bit of research.
Excluding 1970 when the polls were wrong, David Cameron is the only PM to resign whilst leading in the polls, I reckon Mrs May's ratings is the cherry on the parfait that is Cameron's polling legacy.
He forgot he was a Tory. Lib Dem Prime Minister is what he will be remembered as.
It went to rat shit when he became a Conservative Prime Minister who was't needing to get re-elected - and could treat those who voted for him with contempt. Aided by some rank idiots he appointed to win the "renegotiation". These can mostly be spotted now by the initials CBE after their name. Cameron's Bloody Embarrassments.0 -
Mr. 43, has it made playing the globalisation game harder?
We can now negotiate deals in the UK interest. It is fair to say a market of 65m or so has less weight than one of 500m or so, but also that the UK deals will be solely in our interest, whereas a deal that was great for Italy, Germany and Slovenia but terrible for us would've been in the EU interest.0 -
You wouldn't learn Klingon?TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
Either is good. It also depends on the programming language being learned. I would not recommend C++ for anyone starting today, for example, but much like learning Latin helps with logic, so does learning C (or assembly). It's a bit if a minefield IMO and not as simple as when I did it. Back then it was C++ or don't bother, now with Obj-C, C# and Python we have flexible and easy to learn programming, but if one were to learn just those the level of understanding would br quite poor.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
I'd probably plump for Latin and Python were I given the choice today!0 -
I'd go for the foreign language as long term is a more valuable skill to have. Computer programming as such is hack work and commonly now done by people on much lower wages abroad.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
The Times allows non-paywallers to see a couple of articles for free if you email sign up, apparently.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, what's the gist of the Times article?
I'd pick Dominic Lawson on a Sunday as one of mine. I only pay about £9 a month to read everything online and wonder why so many PBers don't fork out such a trivial sum.0 -
Also what foreign language. I would suggest that there is a lot of "tough" competition with Spanish as a second language, if that is a skill you want to deploy.
However, I have a friend who is a fluent English, Mandarin and Cantonese, he ain't short of opportunities. I was told that there are very few westerners who can speak Korean, despite many massive companies based there.0 -
True, but outside the EU we have more tools available to the government if required. EU control of tariffs and draconian state aid rules made it almost impossible for the govt to intervene to stop strategic industries from closing.John_M said:
That is an excellent point, and one that both sides of the EU argument will need to keep in mind. Globalisation doesn't go away just because we've left the political structures of the EU.RationalPlan said:Interesting article in the Economist from a week or two ago. It was looking at the impact of Chinese imports on UK Manufacturing and resulting manufacturing job losses since China joined the WTO.
It pretty much matches the areas of high Brexit vote. It goes on the argue that Britain has been very open to trade and has benefited overall but has been piss poor in compensating the areas affected on the downside. For example on retraining budgets on people who have lost skilled jobs, the UK spent only 20% per person that Germany did.
Northern and Midland manufacturing towns have been hit the worst, while the Greater London area and hinterland received a mild boost from cheaper imports. At the same time prior to China joining the WTO the UK's trade deficit averaged 1%, since then 7%.
The trend is similar elsewhere, in the USA it's estimated that 44% of the jobs lost in Manufacturing in the last decade or so have been due to cheap Chinese imports.
Basically China's growth is a big factor in labour market changes in the UK and the rise in working class dissent. But it did not suit either side to really discuss this and the whole drama was focused purely on 'Europe'.
Solving the Europe question within Britain is really only looking at part of the problem and people are going to be disappointed if focusing on trade outside the EU is going to solve any problems of flat incomes for the less skilled,0 -
Miss Plato, to be honest, I very rarely read newspaper articles online so it doesn't seem worth it to me.0
-
I think we would be sensible to incorporate something like Matlab into science and maths programs. It is used across academia and science industry to prototype ideas and while easy language to learn, it requires ones to think about how you form your problem normally as a matrix calculation.MaxPB said:
Either is good. It also depends on the programming language being learned. I would not recommend C++ for anyone starting today, for example, but much like learning Latin helps with logic, so does learning C (or assembly). It's a bit if a minefield IMO and not as simple as when I did it. Back then it was C++ or don't bother, now with Obj-C, C# and Python we have flexible and easy to learn programming, but if one were to learn just those the level of understanding would br quite poor.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
I'd probably plump for Latin and Python were I given the choice today!0 -
That's an interesting question. Computer languages are obviously the future, but they tend to become popular and unpopular very quickly, meaning you'd need to constantly relearn to stay on top.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Probably better leaning Mandarin, don't more than half the world's population speak either that or English?0 -
It depends on the kind of work you're doing tbh, a Python programmer working in FinTech can take home six figures. A grunt doing C++ for a game studio is likely to be looking at a P45 sooner rather than later as jobs are outsourced to Asia.HurstLlama said:
I'd go for the foreign language as long term is a more valuable skill to have. Computer programming as such is hack work and commonly now done by people on much lower wages abroad.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...
0 -
I've taught all manner of people software development, both commercially and at evening classes. It's not particularly difficult to grasp, and once you have one language under your belt, it becomes increasingly easy to learn another.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
However, the complexity isn't in the vocabulary (e.g. Java, the most popular commercial language, has 50 reserved words) but the libraries you need to use to accomplish useful things.
We're in a golden age for languages - there are lovely niche languages like Processing (for artists) R (for statisticians) and accessible languages like Python and Ruby.
However, I'd still favour Computer Science over programming. It's a very useful topic. If you're genuinely interested in learning to program, grab an IDE and have a go.0 -
All "grunt" coding is in danger of outsourcing, which is why I think learning programming at a very low level (without the computer science ideas) isn't optimal. You can teach yourself to code to a basic language in most languages fairly quickly, it is more difficult and time consuming the mathematical fundamentals behind computer science.MaxPB said:
It depends on the kind of work you're doing tbh, a Python programmer working in FinTech can take home six figures. A grunt doing C++ for a game studio is likely to be looking at a P45 sooner rather than later as jobs are outsourced to Asia.HurstLlama said:
I'd go for the foreign language as long term is a more valuable skill to have. Computer programming as such is hack work and commonly now done by people on much lower wages abroad.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
Except you won't....in order to do so you need to understand some very complex computer science topics.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...0 -
I love Twitter
History in Moments
This is a diagram of an explosive chocolate bar that was intended to kill Winston Churchill. https://t.co/hzAYTfJmJ50 -
At school level, I favour incorporating some sort of coding / Computer Science into maths and science programs. These days it doesn't really matter what science job you will end up doing some sort of coding / interfacing with Matlab / Mathematica / SPSS / etc.John_M said:
I've taught all manner of people software development, both commercially and at evening classes. It's not particularly difficult to grasp, and once you have one language under your belt, it becomes increasingly easy to learn another.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
However, the complexity isn't in the vocabulary (e.g. Java, the most popular commercial language, has 50 reserved words) but the libraries you need to use to accomplish useful things.
We're in a golden age for languages - there are lovely niche languages like Processing (for artists) R (for statisticians) and accessible languages like Python and Ruby.
However, I'd still favour Computer Science over programming. It's a very useful topic. If you're genuinely interested in learning to program, grab an IDE and have a go.0 -
Indeed, natural language translation is extremely finicky. Google essentially crowdsource phraseology and translations these days having given up on a machine translator.FrancisUrquhart said:
Except you won't....in order to do so you need to understand some very complex computer science topics.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...0 -
@thedailymash: A-level student joins shadow cabinet via clearing https://t.co/GfWPRWOLY7 https://t.co/kgXkREHgAV0
-
My hubby regaled me with tales of travels in China and Kazakhstan. All manner of revolting things offered up as 'local delicacies'... as jokes.John_M said:
Terry Pratchett made the point that many so-called delicacies are a result of poor people on the brink of starvation. Nobody would willingly come up with the idea that swallow-nest spit is a good idea. When your betters are eating all the good stuff, you have to get creative.Sean_F said:
I reckon canny peasants in Third World countries love to come up with new ways to fleece rich Westerners, by persuading them that some revolting food is a great delicacy. In Cambodia, they love to eat Tarantulas and other bugs, and maybe they could market them to people like Gwyneth Paltrow at vastly inflated prices.PlatoSaid said:
A taste I've no desire to acquire. Apparently Gwyneth is keen on cockroach milk as her next health craze. I can't believe Olympic champions like Phelps are covered in cupping bruises. What immense nonsense. I'd give him a love bite for free.Sean_F said:
Indonesian Cat Shit is the world's most expensive coffee, but it has a rival in Vietnamese Weasel Puke.Theuniondivvie said:
The coffee beans are only sourced from poop rather than vomit, if that makes any difference.Sean_F said:
Regurgitated quinoa joins coffee made from weasel vomit and cat excrement and Frey pies as food I never want to try.PlatoSaid said:
What does quinoa taste like? Or look like? I've never seen it in the flesh and no desire to either.Mortimer said:Note to Corbyn: to win you need to get actual Tories to vote Labour. People who have voted Tory since 2005. Not people who thought about it whilst queuing for regurgitated quinoa in a pop up stand in Hackney.
Is regurgitated quinoa something Gwyeth Paltrow sources from ethically sourced seagulls?
I suppose we'd serve raw tripe.0 -
That what happened to programmers who worked for a mate of mine. He had a business building applications aimed at SME's, to stay competitive he fired the programmers and outsourced their work to India. He kept the design and testing bit over here though (apparently the Indian firms he used were not good enough at those aspects).MaxPB said:
It depends on the kind of work you're doing tbh, a Python programmer working in FinTech can take home six figures. A grunt doing C++ for a game studio is likely to be looking at a P45 sooner rather than later as jobs are outsourced to Asia.HurstLlama said:
I'd go for the foreign language as long term is a more valuable skill to have. Computer programming as such is hack work and commonly now done by people on much lower wages abroad.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
I still maintain that Remain failed because they'd no experts in what Leave life looked like.MaxPB said:
"Experts, listen to us or else".Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, what's the gist of the Times article?
0 -
Au contraire. People write about trendy languages, but the bread and butter ones persist for decades. Java dates from the mid-90s, still going strong.Sandpit said:
That's an interesting question. Computer languages are obviously the future, but they tend to become popular and unpopular very quickly, meaning you'd need to constantly relearn to stay on top.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Probably better leaning Mandarin, don't more than half the world's population speak either that or English?
Programming languages are like actual languages in that they belong to families e.g. functional, object-oriented, prototyped as the equivalent of Romance, Finno-Ugric etc. There's an awful lot of stealing borrowing of features from other languages.
Ultimately, there are only so many ways to deal with loops, conditionals, threads etc.0 -
Yes, absolutely right. As I said, someone who just learns Python or Obj-C will have little to no real understanding of the underlying science of programming. I say this as someone who never did ComSci and went into game development after university. There was a lot of learning I had to do, but I think having a physics degree helped a lot, some of the best programmers I know are maths graduates.FrancisUrquhart said:
All "grunt" coding is in danger of outsourcing, which is why I think learning programming at a very low level (without the computer science ideas) isn't optimal. You can teach yourself to code to a basic language in most languages fairly quickly, it is more difficult and time consuming the mathematical fundamentals behind computer science.MaxPB said:
It depends on the kind of work you're doing tbh, a Python programmer working in FinTech can take home six figures. A grunt doing C++ for a game studio is likely to be looking at a P45 sooner rather than later as jobs are outsourced to Asia.HurstLlama said:
I'd go for the foreign language as long term is a more valuable skill to have. Computer programming as such is hack work and commonly now done by people on much lower wages abroad.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
Its actually a rather smart approach and one that is being copied in a number of fields...rather than trying to hand craft the model, you learn a manifold of the problem from captured data sources.MaxPB said:
Indeed, natural language translation is extremely finicky. Google essentially crowdsource phraseology and translations these days having given up on a machine translator.FrancisUrquhart said:
Except you won't....in order to do so you need to understand some very complex computer science topics.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...0 -
So it looks like over the next couple of days, China has to get three more gold medals than GB to get second (because we are well ahead in silver medals). We have two guaranteed shots at gold (Adams, hockey) with a further distancing of the silver tally at worst. Gymnastics and wiff waff have finished. So apart from diving, where else are China going to get their golds?
EDIT Damn it - rhythmic gymnastics still to come! That must be one where the Chinese excel? And badminton....0 -
The reason that machine learning is taking off is that the large tech companies are providing libraries that you can use to develop pretty sophisticated software. Standing on the shoulders of giants etc.FrancisUrquhart said:
Except you won't....in order to do so you need to understand some very complex computer science topics.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...
I don't need to write software for computer vision, or language parsing. Someone's already done it and put it on Github.0 -
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.
0 -
IMO, she should have got extra points for the Axe kick in the final....I wouldn't fancy spilling her pint!PlatoSaid said:James Hallwood
I love @jadejonestkd's bio. She's now the Olympic champion head kicker, doing #TeamGB proud! https://t.co/Zs6w6hjMuK0 -
Mandarin dates from 1324 and is still going very strong.John_M said:
Au contraire. People write about trendy languages, but the bread and butter ones persist for decades. Java dates from the mid-90s, still going strong.Sandpit said:
That's an interesting question. Computer languages are obviously the future, but they tend to become popular and unpopular very quickly, meaning you'd need to constantly relearn to stay on top.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Probably better leaning Mandarin, don't more than half the world's population speak either that or English?
Programming languages are like actual languages in that they belong to families e.g. functional, object-oriented, prototyped as the equivalent of Romance, Finno-Ugric etc. There's an awful lot of stealing borrowing of features from other languages.
Ultimately, there are only so many ways to deal with loops, conditionals, threads etc.
And leaning Mandarin will help with managing the guy who's writing the code 20 years from now!0 -
I looked at polenta and thought it looked like dense yellow carbo stodge. Like potatoes without any nuance or flavour.MaxPB said:
My gf made me try a polenta pizza in Milan recently. It felt like a wasted meal, literally no taste.AlastairMeeks said:The Italians managed to turn polenta into a trendy food. If they can do that with something that tastes like heated MDF, anything is possible.
0 -
Hmmmm...yes and no e.g. many computer vision tasks are far from solved, so what you grab off github or the function you use from OpenCV is only "so" good. And if you don't understand how they work, you will never be able to consider how to improve upon them.John_M said:
The reason that machine learning is taking off is that the large tech companies are providing libraries that you can use to develop pretty sophisticated software. Standing on the shoulders of giants etc.FrancisUrquhart said:
Except you won't....in order to do so you need to understand some very complex computer science topics.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Computer programming.
Then you can write software that auto-translates the foreign languages...
I don't need to write software for computer vision, or language parsing. Someone's already done it and put it on Github.
Good luck with your translation app from publicly sourced code....it will be s##t.
And things like Tensorflow for ML from google will only get you so far and you need to understand the science behind ML.0 -
I'd certainly agree about the libraries. Most of the jobs I see these days (I rarely look anymore) seem to be very specifically demanding about Windows library environment, IDE, C# etc etc.John_M said:
I've taught all manner of people software development, both commercially and at evening classes. It's not particularly difficult to grasp, and once you have one language under your belt, it becomes increasingly easy to learn another.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
However, the complexity isn't in the vocabulary (e.g. Java, the most popular commercial language, has 50 reserved words) but the libraries you need to use to accomplish useful things.
We're in a golden age for languages - there are lovely niche languages like Processing (for artists) R (for statisticians) and accessible languages like Python and Ruby.
However, I'd still favour Computer Science over programming. It's a very useful topic. If you're genuinely interested in learning to program, grab an IDE and have a go.0 -
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than learn JavaScript. Python would be my recommendation.MarkHopkins said:
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.0 -
For all us politics / psephology geeks here on PB a brilliant set of Brexit referendum maps:
https://medium.com/@jakeybob/brexit-maps-d70caab7315e#.6kouekuj6
Enjoy0 -
Men's 10m platform this evening, Tom Daley in with a chance of a medal, China too IIRC.MarqueeMark said:So it looks like over the next couple of days, China has to get three more gold medals than GB to get second (because we are well ahead in silver medals). We have two guaranteed shots at gold (Adams, hockey) with a further distancing of the silver tally at worst. Gymnastics and wiff waff have finished. So apart from diving, where else are China going to get their golds?
EDIT Damn it - rhythmic gymnastics still to come! That must be one where the Chinese excel? And badminton....0 -
Neither. Foreigners invariably speak English, and frankly we are so appalling at teaching foreign languages that anyone who wants to learn one should just go and live abroad for six months, if that is still allowed after Brexit. And though most jobs use computers, very few need program them.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Spreadsheets. That's what the kids need to learn. The misuse and abuse of spreadsheets is rife and people need to have at least the basics. Accountants might use them to tot up cash balances but for everyone else they are used for tables, project-planning, ad hoc databases and probably even pictures of cats. It is all wrong but spreadsheets are ubiquitous.
0 -
My job originally was as a software developer, but my educational background is in languages. I am actually a good programmer and enjoy the creativity of it. There's an elegance to a well crafted piece of code, just as there is to a piece of prose. The difference is that a competent programmer can pick up a new language straight away. The time investment is in understanding the system the software is deployed into. But it's no good being fluent in French if the person you are trying to converse with is German. It takes years to get one language to a decent standard.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
@George_Osborne: After all these years, I finally have a front page in the Daily Mirror worth keeping0
-
MaxPB said:
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than learn JavaScript. Python would be my recommendation.MarkHopkins said:
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.
Only someone who didn't understand JS would write that
0 -
Nah, Pascal is the one.MaxPB said:
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than learn JavaScript. Python would be my recommendation.MarkHopkins said:
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.0 -
Foreign language. It'll help with programming because programming languages are languages. Schools have quite a bit of experience at teaching foreign languages and less at teaching programming, and if you can't teach yourself programming then it's not for you.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
Linguistic/gender point but in the thread title it says "Mrs. May's ..." which is quite formal. Normally Cameron, Brown, Blair etc are referred to as such and without the formal Mr. in front of their name.
Maybe a subconscious issue or maybe I've just not noticed it in the past but why refer to her title but not others? Is it because she's new, a woman, or has a name that is a also month (though having a name that is a colour didn't seem to be an issue when referring to Brown).0 -
If being a flaming idiot was an Olympic sport we could send these two chumps and bag another Gold and Silver medal.Pulpstar said:
Owen Smith and Jezza are playing a game of idiot top trumps:PlatoSaid said:Just for our train fans
Owen Smith
"Isambard Kingdom Brunel wld look at our trains and he'd recognise them because they haven't changed since he built them- we need to invest"
Owen: "I'll start with lets go soft on ISIS"
Jez: "Won't bother with enacting NATO art 5"
Owen: "Trains haven't changed since 1850s"0 -
That is another problem with languages: there are so many of them. Every day I speak to colleagues in five other countries and English is the lingua franca because the Germans can't speak French and the Italians can't speak German.FF43 said:
My job originally was as a software developer, but my educational background is in languages. I am actually a good programmer and enjoy the creativity of it. There's an elegance to a well crafted piece of code, just as there is to a piece of prose. The difference is that a competent programmer can pick up a new language straight away. The time investment is in understanding the system the software is deployed into. But it's no good being fluent in French if the person you are trying to converse with is German. It takes years to get one language to a decent standard.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?0 -
And if you want to learn Python, and host a Python-backed, website can I recommend the excellent:MaxPB said:
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than learn JavaScript. Python would be my recommendation.MarkHopkins said:
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.
https://www.pythonanywhere.com/
(I may have a small financial interest in it.)0 -
Superb!Patrick said:For all us politics / psephology geeks here on PB a brilliant set of Brexit referendum maps:
https://medium.com/@jakeybob/brexit-maps-d70caab7315e#.6kouekuj6
Enjoy
0 -
Nah....unfortunately Brazil Olympic organizers have the gold wrapped up. They would be certs for Silver and Bronze though.glw said:
If being a flaming idiot was an Olympic sport we could send these two chumps and bag another Gold and Silver medal.Pulpstar said:
Owen Smith and Jezza are playing a game of idiot top trumps:PlatoSaid said:Just for our train fans
Owen Smith
"Isambard Kingdom Brunel wld look at our trains and he'd recognise them because they haven't changed since he built them- we need to invest"
Owen: "I'll start with lets go soft on ISIS"
Jez: "Won't bother with enacting NATO art 5"
Owen: "Trains haven't changed since 1850s"0 -
I once knew a teacher of French who dabbled in import/export. He said that success depended on 1. A well designed product 2. A competitive price 3. Delivering on time. Speaking the language of the customer came nowhere.0
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I'm having flashbacks to Ars 10 years ago (probably still the same).0
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I think the US swimmers are competitive for the Silver though!FrancisUrquhart said:
Nah....unfortunately Brazil Olympic organizers have the gold wrapped up. They would be certs for Silver and Bronze though.glw said:
If being a flaming idiot was an Olympic sport we could send these two chumps and bag another Gold and Silver medal.Pulpstar said:
Owen Smith and Jezza are playing a game of idiot top trumps:PlatoSaid said:Just for our train fans
Owen Smith
"Isambard Kingdom Brunel wld look at our trains and he'd recognise them because they haven't changed since he built them- we need to invest"
Owen: "I'll start with lets go soft on ISIS"
Jez: "Won't bother with enacting NATO art 5"
Owen: "Trains haven't changed since 1850s"0 -
Men's 10m platform this evening, Tom Daley in with a chance of a medal, China too IIRC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/37085511
Here's the BBC's take on the battle for second.0 -
Your right....we will have to remove Jez and Owen's lottery funding for not being idiotic enough on a world level.MaxPB said:
I think the US swimmers are competitive for the Silver though!FrancisUrquhart said:
Nah....unfortunately Brazil Olympic organizers have the gold wrapped up. They would be certs for Silver and Bronze though.glw said:
If being a flaming idiot was an Olympic sport we could send these two chumps and bag another Gold and Silver medal.Pulpstar said:
Owen Smith and Jezza are playing a game of idiot top trumps:PlatoSaid said:Just for our train fans
Owen Smith
"Isambard Kingdom Brunel wld look at our trains and he'd recognise them because they haven't changed since he built them- we need to invest"
Owen: "I'll start with lets go soft on ISIS"
Jez: "Won't bother with enacting NATO art 5"
Owen: "Trains haven't changed since 1850s"0 -
I m going to make a plea for a (short) course in philosophy. People in this country don't know how to turn out an argument. Say a staff member wants a new piece of equipment. They will attempt to justify it with facts - how much it costs; how many gigabytes it has; what connections it has etc. But they won't attempt to persuade on the benefits: I can save this amount of time; it takes the stress out of my job and you get a happier employee; it allows us to provide a more reliable service - or whateverDecrepitJohnL said:
Neither. Foreigners invariably speak English, and frankly we are so appalling at teaching foreign languages that anyone who wants to learn one should just go and live abroad for six months, if that is still allowed after Brexit. And though most jobs use computers, very few need program them.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Spreadsheets. That's what the kids need to learn. The misuse and abuse of spreadsheets is rife and people need to have at least the basics. Accountants might use them to tot up cash balances but for everyone else they are used for tables, project-planning, ad hoc databases and probably even pictures of cats. It is all wrong but spreadsheets are ubiquitous.0 -
There are any number of completely terrible application specific programming languages that only exist because some poorly managed senior dev let his ego run away with itself.rottenborough said:
Nah, Pascal is the one.MaxPB said:
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than learn JavaScript. Python would be my recommendation.MarkHopkins said:
I would recommend learning JavaScript.
It is used in browsers and servers (node.js). Object-oriented, well designed, extensible, and has the ability to treat functions as variables which gives amazing flexibility.
And you can start simply with it.0 -
Mr. Borough, Wehrlein is highly regarded.
Mind you, Haryanto really exceed expectations.0 -
It's an editorial decision Mike and I made, because may is also a modal verb, so it can lead to problems/confusion, that's why we try and not use May on its own.Philip_Thompson said:Linguistic/gender point but in the thread title it says "Mrs. May's ..." which is quite formal. Normally Cameron, Brown, Blair etc are referred to as such and without the formal Mr. in front of their name.
Maybe a subconscious issue or maybe I've just not noticed it in the past but why refer to her title but not others? Is it because she's new, a woman, or has a name that is a also month (though having a name that is a colour didn't seem to be an issue when referring to Brown).0 -
Today's whole scheduletaffys said:Men's 10m platform this evening, Tom Daley in with a chance of a medal, China too IIRC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/37085511
Here's the BBC's take on the battle for second.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/rio-2016/schedule/2016-08-190 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
It's an editorial decision Mike and I made, because may is also a modal verb, so it can lead to problems, that's why we try and not use May on its own.Philip_Thompson said:Linguistic/gender point but in the thread title it says "Mrs. May's ..." which is quite formal. Normally Cameron, Brown, Blair etc are referred to as such and without the formal Mr. in front of their name.
Maybe a subconscious issue or maybe I've just not noticed it in the past but why refer to her title but not others? Is it because she's new, a woman, or has a name that is a also month (though having a name that is a colour didn't seem to be an issue when referring to Brown).
Is a good point. But you could use "PM May" instead?
0 -
Is a work in progress, think of the thread when there's talk of an early electionMarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
It's an editorial decision Mike and I made, because may is also a modal verb, so it can lead to problems, that's why we try and not use May on its own.Philip_Thompson said:Linguistic/gender point but in the thread title it says "Mrs. May's ..." which is quite formal. Normally Cameron, Brown, Blair etc are referred to as such and without the formal Mr. in front of their name.
Maybe a subconscious issue or maybe I've just not noticed it in the past but why refer to her title but not others? Is it because she's new, a woman, or has a name that is a also month (though having a name that is a colour didn't seem to be an issue when referring to Brown).
Is a good point. But you could use "PM May" instead?
Mrs May may call an early election0 -
Partly also that no-one really knows who the Prime Minister is. Theresa May was Home Secretary for six or seven years where she achieved damn all, then reached Number 10 just as Parliament went into recess. May is not just a month but has other common meanings, so that is out. If I were a tabloid editor, I'd try running with Tess in headlines.Philip_Thompson said:Linguistic/gender point but in the thread title it says "Mrs. May's ..." which is quite formal. Normally Cameron, Brown, Blair etc are referred to as such and without the formal Mr. in front of their name.
Maybe a subconscious issue or maybe I've just not noticed it in the past but why refer to her title but not others? Is it because she's new, a woman, or has a name that is a also month (though having a name that is a colour didn't seem to be an issue when referring to Brown).0 -
I'd add to that that a lot of actual practical programming work is about turning vague ideas and problems expressed in human language into something specific enough to express in formal logic. I think philosophy is much better preparation for this than either maths or Computer Science.FF43 said:
I m going to make a plea for a (short) course in philosophy. People in this country don't know how to turn out an argument. Say a staff member wants a new piece of equipment. They will attempt to justify it with facts - how much it costs; how many gigabytes it has; what connections it has etc. But they won't attempt to persuade on the benefits: I can save this amount of time; it takes the stress out of my job and you get a happier employee; it allows us to provide a more reliable service - or whateverDecrepitJohnL said:
Neither. Foreigners invariably speak English, and frankly we are so appalling at teaching foreign languages that anyone who wants to learn one should just go and live abroad for six months, if that is still allowed after Brexit. And though most jobs use computers, very few need program them.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have asked me a very interesting question.
The number of pupils studying foreign languages at A Level has now reached a record low. If you were 16 today and had to choose, would you learn a foreign language or a computer programming language?
Foreign language
or
Computer programming language
I'm someone who is fluent in several languages, and I love learning different languages, I reckon if forced, I'd go for the computing programming course.
What do other PBers think?
Spreadsheets. That's what the kids need to learn. The misuse and abuse of spreadsheets is rife and people need to have at least the basics. Accountants might use them to tot up cash balances but for everyone else they are used for tables, project-planning, ad hoc databases and probably even pictures of cats. It is all wrong but spreadsheets are ubiquitous.0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
