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  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Is there anything resembling evidence that there is any Russian involvement, or is this just Mook running his mouth hoping to get a few cheap hits on Trump ?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Why didnt England make Pakistan follow on?

    Because Cook and Root wanted to get centuries. Seems like a good reason to me.
    Daft.
    Why? There's no rush to finish the match. I get the impression some of the TV and radio commentators have got used to four day finishes and like the extra day off.
    There was a previous Test where Cook did the same thing and was ripped for it by journalists, who (it turned out) had already booked rounds of golf for the fifth day... http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/content/story/1038917.html
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I think that's what they call a double whammy.''

    The progressive tendency to dismiss things that millions of voters back as extremism or lunacy is why you are failing.

    Same as Brexit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,945
    kle4 said:

    Root has to be the best player ever for England in the modern age, surely? The only English person likely to catch Cook's stats as well.

    In terms of batting for sure, in terms of influence I'd rate Vaughan. Look at where we were and where he took us, and what happened when he left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,110
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    glw said:

    NEW: CNN/ORC post-RNC

    Trump 48% (+6)
    Clinton 45% (-4)

    1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll/index.html

    That doesn't entirely surprise me. I heard his speech and thought it might resonate with the views of the public no matter that it was poorly delivered and substance free, as Trump is at least on the same page as the wider public.
    I watched chunks and read the whole thing. I felt myself nodding along with big sections of it. He's the POTUS version of Rod Liddle. He's OTT - but he's saying what a lot of people are thinking.

    It reminded me of the gulf between Old Labour voters and Sadiq bringing in unisex toilets as a big nod to transgender bods. I've absolutely no problem with anyone swapping sexes if that's their wish - however, I don't want to use communal style toilets a la Victoria Station with creepy sorts watching me put on make-up/change clothes et al. Or lurking/able to assault me if alone.

    And the same goes for Gents who don't want to be watched having a shave, filled with hen party sorts trying to pee in a urinal, scratching themselves or whatever.

    Disabled toilets are self-contained units with no privacy issues and are a totally different scenario.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Is there any evidence ? I mean other than hearsay from Democrat campaign spokespeople ? It would be unusually inept of hackers at that level to leave much in the way of a calling card.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,945
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    The connection is that they are both authoritarian and opportunistic so they see eye to eye on a level that other leaders who are more liberal don't. Beyond that it's just desperate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,723
    Root's an allrounder - his batting average is higher than his bowling average. Ok, his bowling average is 52, but his batting average is 56.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579
    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    NEW: CNN/ORC post-RNC

    Trump 48% (+6)
    Clinton 45% (-4)

    1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll/index.html

    That doesn't entirely surprise me. I heard his speech and thought it might resonate with the views of the public no matter that it was poorly delivered and substance free, as Trump is at least on the same page as the wider public.
    I watched chunks and read the whole thing. I felt myself nodding along with big sections of it. He's the POTUS version of Rod Liddle. He's OTT - but he's saying what a lot of people are thinking.

    It reminded me of the gulf between Old Labour voters and Sadiq bringing in unisex toilets as a big nod to transgender bods. I've absolutely no problem with anyone swapping sexes if that's their wish - however, I don't want to use communal style toilets a la Victoria Station with creepy sorts watching me put on make-up/change clothes et al. Or lurking/able to assault me if alone.

    And the same goes for Gents who don't want to be watched having a shave, filled with hen party sorts trying to pee in a urinal, scratching themselves or whatever.

    Disabled toilets are self-contained units with no privacy issues and are a totally different scenario.
    Was Khan proposing abolishing male/female toilets? I assumed he was talking about introducing a third type. :|
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
  • Rather stunned by the increase in the operating losses at the Guardian to £69m p.a.
    When will it abandon printing?

    "The operating loss of £68.7m for the year to March, to be unveiled on Wednesday, exceeds its earlier estimate of £58.6m, "
    " It needs to reduce operating losses to £30m or less in order to be able to finance itself from this asset base."
    "GMG is facing a sharper than anticipated fall in UK print advertising, along with other newspapers, including the Financial Times."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5be593a-51b5-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html#axzz4FPEwr8Wj
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.''

    Seriously, best of luck making that one stick. Nobody likes Russia, but Americans don;t see it as as enemy number one any more.

    They see islamism as the enemy. They see what is going in in Syria and Turkey as the biggest threat.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,684

    “The NHS in England remains under significant financial pressure which is demonstrated in its accounts. It has again used a range of short term measures to manage its budgetary position but this is not a sustainable answer to the financial problems which it faces. The Department and its partners need to create and implement a robust, credible and comprehensive plan to move the NHS to a more sustainable financial footing.”

    Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 21 July 2016

    Good find Mr. Owls, but noting the problem does nothing to solve it. To do that we must first ask why the problem exists, do we not? What is causing these financial pressures? Just throwing money at the NHS hasn't worked and will continue not to work until the underlying causes are addressed. Nobody seems to want to talk about those. I wonder why.
    The USA 'throws' 17% of GDP at its healthcare system. UK spending is 7-8%. France and Germany spend >10%. Canada, which has a similar approach to us; i.e., direct use of tax revenues, without the extra admin. of 'insurance' and billing and reclaims, spends >10%.

    Unless all the 30-40 systems in other developed countries are even more wastefully organised, it appears that part of the NHS's problem clearly *is* lack of money, to the tune of 3-4% of GDP.
    I am not sure that wholly makes sense. A few years ago the NHS was not permanently in financial trouble. Spending on the NHS has increased year on year. So if it wasn't in trouble before and expenditure has increased why is it in trouble now?

    On top of that are the health systems in, say, France are reportedly in deficit too. So maybe proportion of GDP spent is not really a useful measure in working out what is causing the problem.

    I think we need a bit more thought and analysis before we decide to throw another 3-4% of GDP at the NHS. That sort of money has to come from somewhere and it ain't going to be from other government departments. So it can only come from the productive economy, which means less investment and less wealth.
    Is the NHS actually in financial trouble? Or has it, in recent rimes, been told, in Mr Micawber’s been terms, to manage on 19/6d? Year on year.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    Putin is beyond the pale, have you not been following events?

    This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited July 2016
    WTF

    Byron York ✔ @ByronYork
    CNN poll Clinton honest and trustworthy: 68 no 30 yes. http://ow.ly/MFfa302zoMt
    :grin:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,907
    edited July 2016
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    If Trump is friendly with Putin at least he won't be tempted to "push the red button" if US/Russia have a blow up so that's got to be good?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Rather stunned by the increase in the operating losses at the Guardian to £69m p.a.
    When will it abandon printing?

    "The operating loss of £68.7m for the year to March, to be unveiled on Wednesday, exceeds its earlier estimate of £58.6m, "
    " It needs to reduce operating losses to £30m or less in order to be able to finance itself from this asset base."
    "GMG is facing a sharper than anticipated fall in UK print advertising, along with other newspapers, including the Financial Times."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5be593a-51b5-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html#axzz4FPEwr8Wj

    Too much black/white europhile bleating from both of them for all but the most committed LD. The vast majority of remainers are not motivated by love for the EU and all its works, they are mostly driven by self interest in jobs, pensions and property prices, there is nothing wrong with that, but I would assume therefore that their tolerance for the sort of chicken licken stories both those organs have been relentlessly producing all year must be dwindling.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    kle4 said:

    Root's an allrounder - his batting average is higher than his bowling average. Ok, his bowling average is 52, but his batting average is 56.

    There are only 43 men who have batted in at least 20 innings and averaged at least 50.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    edited July 2016

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You seen his promises and the shocking level of spending they will need? He needs tax rises to fund his programme, not cuts. It's insane economics.

  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    It fails the smell test. Trump is about strength, standing up for America blah blah. He's the antithesis of a Putinesque stooge.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    I would place Hillary as a slight favorite overall, but with a caveat that there is a distinct possibility that, once the campaign proper is underway, Trump could totally crush her (think more Russian hacker leaks of various Clinton/Dem emails).

    That said, the Hillary/Trump odds look as unrealistic as the Bremain odds going into the referendum. Looks like a free buffet for bettors.
  • “The NHS in England remains under significant financial pressure which is demonstrated in its accounts. It has again used a range of short term measures to manage its budgetary position but this is not a sustainable answer to the financial problems which it faces. The Department and its partners need to create and implement a robust, credible and comprehensive plan to move the NHS to a more sustainable financial footing.”

    Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 21 July 2016

    Good find Mr. Owls, but noting the problem does nothing to solve it. To do that we must first ask why the problem exists, do we not? What is causing these financial pressures? Just throwing money at the NHS hasn't worked and will continue not to work until the underlying causes are addressed. Nobody seems to want to talk about those. I wonder why.
    The USA 'throws' 17% of GDP at its healthcare system. UK spending is 7-8%. France and Germany spend >10%. Canada, which has a similar approach to us; i.e., direct use of tax revenues, without the extra admin. of 'insurance' and billing and reclaims, spends >10%.

    Unless all the 30-40 systems in other developed countries are even more wastefully organised, it appears that part of the NHS's problem clearly *is* lack of money, to the tune of 3-4% of GDP.
    I am not sure that wholly makes sense. A few years ago the NHS was not permanently in financial trouble. Spending on the NHS has increased year on year. So if it wasn't in trouble before and expenditure has increased why is it in trouble now?

    On top of that are the health systems in, say, France are reportedly in deficit too. So maybe proportion of GDP spent is not really a useful measure in working out what is causing the problem.

    I think we need a bit more thought and analysis before we decide to throw another 3-4% of GDP at the NHS. That sort of money has to come from somewhere and it ain't going to be from other government departments. So it can only come from the productive economy, which means less investment and less wealth.
    The costs of the NHS have also increased year on year. Major factors are likely to be an ageing population and increasingly advanced but expensive treatments.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    Putin is beyond the pale, have you not been following events?

    This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.
    Still waiting for a link to that evidence...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.''

    How, exactly. Play that one out for me. What's worrying about it? What's the worst that could happen?

    Indulge me in your progressive fantasy.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,229
    Pulpstar said:

    ToryJim said:

    Dromedary said:

    Is most of the money staked at Betfair on the US presidential election coming from Britain?

    This is given that betting on the election is unlawful in the US, for some definition of "in".

    The reason I ask is that the Betfair prices (Trump 30% probability) seem way out of line with the polls (1.9% Clinton lead - RCP average; Trump probability 40%-44% - Five Thirty-Eight forecasts; Trump 3% in the lead - latest CNN poll).

    Are Brits rushing to buy the favourite, as they did with a hung parliament and Remain? I wouldn't stretch the latter analogy too far - there aren't many shy Trumpers. Barring cataclysms in the few days before the election, if Trump wins he's unlikely to have been trailing in the polls going into the vote.

    Don't look at the national polls, it's 50 statewide polls. It's a complex picture but Hillary looks to be ahead in almost all the states that matter.
    Those State polls are not as up to date as the national poll. If Trump is ahead nationally, then he is ahead in the swing states.
    Same for Hillary.
    Pretty much. It'd be difficult though not impossible to be 3% ahead overall and not win the Electoral College given the nature of national swings. Even if Hillary were still ahead in the current swing states - and she'd have to be only just ahead - Trump would have to be making up serious ground in states that are currently well into the Blue column.

    Technically, it's more than 50 individual polls due to both DC and also Maine and Nebraska, which allocate by congressional district as well as statewide (not that either is likely to be a serious factor).
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    Putin is beyond the pale, have you not been following events?

    This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.
    Putin won't be around for ever. If we're not careful, this violent Islamism will.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,110

    WTF

    Byron York ✔ @ByronYork
    CNN poll Clinton honest and trustworthy: 68 no 30 yes. http://ow.ly/MFfa302zoMt
    :shocked:

    As Rod said a while ago, President Trump will assume an air of inevitability long before November. She's going to lose.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You seen his promises and the shocking level of spending they will need? He needs tax rises to fund his programme, not cuts. It's insane economics.

    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Putin won't be around for ever. If we're not careful, this violent Islamism will. ''

    The left's so-what shoulder shrugging over what is going on in Turkey is instructive.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You have to be certain you are beyond the Laffer peak. The GOP always thinks they are, so far they've never been correct.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    MaxPB said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    The connection is that they are both authoritarian and opportunistic so they see eye to eye on a level that other leaders who are more liberal don't. Beyond that it's just desperate.
    You do know about his financial and personnel links?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You seen his promises and the shocking level of spending they will need? He needs tax rises to fund his programme, not cuts. It's insane economics.

    He is following the lead of one of the USA's most popular presidents.

    "the economic policies of the former US president Ronald Reagan, associated especially with the reduction of taxes and the promotion of unrestricted free-market activity. The claim that cutting taxes generates more revenue was a key element of Reaganomics"
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited July 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    It fails the smell test. Trump is about strength, standing up for America blah blah. He's the antithesis of a Putinesque stooge.
    You're wrong about that. Thrak is right that we should be worried. Unfortunately, Clinton is not positioned well to make that point, which by its nature doesn't work if made weakly. Her brand is niceness, good sense, competence, and it isn't faring well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,701
    malcolmg said:

    MontyHall said:

    runnymede said:

    runnymede said:

    Finally something my and @stodge with our different strands of liberalism can agree on. Mark Littlewood had a majestic piece on it in yesterdays Mail. #1 While we're all making Kubler-Ross jibes Leavers are in denial as well. There is a fundamental contradiction in the Leave coalition. There was in Remain as well but we lost so it doesn't matter. #2 The WWC were lied to. They were told restricting immigration would make them richer. It will make them poorer. Maybe they'll be happy with that trade off in the end. But they were lied to. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3705165/The-great-Brexit-immigration-LIE-Like-Cameron-foolish-promise-migrant-numbers-just-t-writes-MARK-LITTLEWOOD.html

    Yawn.
    Yawn ? Enjoying the after glow while it lasts but the contradictions examined by the ' London Visa ' strand of this thread are profound and aren't going away.Littlewwood is laser sharp. Look where " Yawn " got europhile like myself as a response to contradictions.






    RCS voted Leave, I believe.

    London contributes around 20% to this country's overall GDP, far in excess of its proportional share. It is one of the very few areas of the UK that is a net giver to the UK's coffers. It has done this as a result of being open to the rest of the world. If we want to mitigate some of the potential short and medium term negative effects of Brexit - ones that will have an impact on the overall tax take and, therefore, the government's ability to meet current spending commitments, let alone any future ones - we need to ensure that London remains as attractive as it has been up to now. Special visas may well be one solution.

    Do you have how much of the country's GDP is spent on London compared to other parts of the country. On infrastructure it is about 1000% compared to what is spent on North of England.
    Look, I agree with you that the periphery gets subsidies to the detriment of London. But sometimes we just have to suck it up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ToryJim said:

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You have to be certain you are beyond the Laffer peak. The GOP always thinks they are, so far they've never been correct.
    You don't have to be certain. Even if you're 51% certain it could make sense.

    Heck, if you believe low taxes are a good thing in themselves then even if it's a 33% chance or less then it could make sense.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    Indigo said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Is there anything resembling evidence that there is any Russian involvement, or is this just Mook running his mouth hoping to get a few cheap hits on Trump ?
    Some, but it's circumstantial and could have been planted on purpose by somebody else.
    https://motherboard.vice.com/read/guccifer-20-is-likely-a-russian-government-attempt-to-cover-up-their-own-hack
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    taffys said:

    ''This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.''

    How, exactly. Play that one out for me. What's worrying about it? What's the worst that could happen?

    Indulge me in your progressive fantasy.

    Progressive? Mine is a conservative (small c) view.

    It appears that people don't yet know about this, give it a month or two and see how it develops.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,945
    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    The connection is that they are both authoritarian and opportunistic so they see eye to eye on a level that other leaders who are more liberal don't. Beyond that it's just desperate.
    You do know about his financial and personnel links?
    Please show me the evidence then. I'd be interested to read about it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,229
    ToryJim said:

    taffys said:

    ''Cook is a genius.''

    When he's finished Cook will be England's greatest batsman by some degree, at least as far as stats are concerned.

    Yes and shortly after that he will be overtaken by Root ;)
    Their innings this morning was a microcosm of that. No matter how good Cook is, Root is better.
  • Personal rant!
    Whatever happened to the famous American company focus on customer service?
    Car rental company that once had the "we try harder" slogan took >45+ minutes to supply a car booked weeks earlier at a major european city at 830am (recently) with just 2 people ahead of me in the queue when I arrived. Others waiting held up for similar delays. Waiting for their bus (10min +) and then collecting the car took longer than the effing flight.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,873
    Masood c Cook b Anderson 1 (Pak 7-1)
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    edited July 2016
    Indigo said:

    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    Putin is beyond the pale, have you not been following events?

    This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.
    Still waiting for a link to that evidence...
    When did you ask? This board moves so quickly.

    Plenty of links from this summary.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing
  • Indigo said:

    Rather stunned by the increase in the operating losses at the Guardian to £69m p.a.
    When will it abandon printing?

    "The operating loss of £68.7m for the year to March, to be unveiled on Wednesday, exceeds its earlier estimate of £58.6m, "
    " It needs to reduce operating losses to £30m or less in order to be able to finance itself from this asset base."
    "GMG is facing a sharper than anticipated fall in UK print advertising, along with other newspapers, including the Financial Times."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5be593a-51b5-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html#axzz4FPEwr8Wj

    Too much black/white europhile bleating from both of them for all but the most committed LD. The vast majority of remainers are not motivated by love for the EU and all its works, they are mostly driven by self interest in jobs, pensions and property prices, there is nothing wrong with that, but I would assume therefore that their tolerance for the sort of chicken licken stories both those organs have been relentlessly producing all year must be dwindling.
    It would be justice if you are right.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,229
    PlatoSaid said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    It fails the smell test. Trump is about strength, standing up for America blah blah. He's the antithesis of a Putinesque stooge.
    Like Octavian standing up for the Republic in the face of Marc Anthony?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2016



    Is the NHS actually in financial trouble? Or has it, in recent rimes, been told, in Mr Micawber’s been terms, to manage on 19/6d? Year on year.

    Well Mr. Cole, all I can say is that Mr Owls (quoting the National Audit Office), seems to think that the NHS is in financial trouble - see upthread. I doubt the NAO or, indeed, Mr Owls is wrong . The question to my mind is why?

    There won't be one answer of course but could it be that it is actually impossible to load a city the size of the Cardiff on to the NHS each year without it having a negative effect? Could it be that the outrageous costs of Gordon Brown's PFI schemes are coming home to roost? Could it be that the the length of life now being achieved means that the costs to the NHS are going to rise regardless? Then there are new drugs, new procedures that make treatments possible for those who are living longer? And so on and so forth.

    My solution (at least in part) would be to slash the duty/taxes on booze and fags and make some recreation narcotics free at the chemists to the over sixties. No point in living longer if all you are is a drooling vegetable in a nursing home. Might as well go out with a bang.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''It appears that people don't yet know about this, give it a month or two and see how it develops.'

    See how what develops? Plenty of people tell me they are afraid of a Trump presidency without ever explaining what it is they fear.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,955

    Rather stunned by the increase in the operating losses at the Guardian to £69m p.a.
    When will it abandon printing?

    "The operating loss of £68.7m for the year to March, to be unveiled on Wednesday, exceeds its earlier estimate of £58.6m, "
    " It needs to reduce operating losses to £30m or less in order to be able to finance itself from this asset base."
    "GMG is facing a sharper than anticipated fall in UK print advertising, along with other newspapers, including the Financial Times."

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5be593a-51b5-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html#axzz4FPEwr8Wj

    It used to be that I would buy the Guardian whenever I was travelling by train - often just out of habit.

    About 2 months ago I was travelling by train on Monday morning -I saw the price (£2) and the thinness of the paper and decided not to bother...
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,555




    The costs of the NHS have also increased year on year. Major factors are likely to be an ageing population and increasingly advanced but expensive treatments.

    The ONS has published a comparison of costs between different countries of their health system. This is based on health plus care, so for the UK you have to add the costs of the care system to the NHS to make a valid comparison.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/bulletins/ukhealthaccounts/2014#appendix-1-international-comparisons-of-healthcare-expenditure

    The U.K. Does not appear to be significantly different on this measure, certainly not 3-4% adrift.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,701
    taffys said:

    ''It appears that people don't yet know about this, give it a month or two and see how it develops.'

    See how what develops? Plenty of people tell me they are afraid of a Trump presidency without ever explaining what it is they fear.

    I fear the beginning of the end of free trade, to the detriment of all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,945
    Thrak said:

    Indigo said:

    Thrak said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    Putin is beyond the pale, have you not been following events?

    This connection would destroy almost any candidate, if Trump gets away with it we have a very worrying sityation.
    Still waiting for a link to that evidence...
    When did you ask? This board moves so quickly.

    Plenty of links from this summary.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing
    That's literally an article which can be summed up in one sentence, Trump likes money and the Russians have money. The same is true for Clinton's links to dodgy Saudis.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,701

    Personal rant!
    Whatever happened to the famous American company focus on customer service?
    Car rental company that once had the "we try harder" slogan took >45+ minutes to supply a car booked weeks earlier at a major european city at 830am (recently) with just 2 people ahead of me in the queue when I arrived. Others waiting held up for similar delays. Waiting for their bus (10min +) and then collecting the car took longer than the effing flight.

    I had a similar experience at JFK with the number one car company last year. Two people ahead of me in the queue, disinterested staff and an hour long wait.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193

    ToryJim said:

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You have to be certain you are beyond the Laffer peak. The GOP always thinks they are, so far they've never been correct.
    You don't have to be certain. Even if you're 51% certain it could make sense.

    Heck, if you believe low taxes are a good thing in themselves then even if it's a 33% chance or less then it could make sense.
    Well if you aren't beyond the peak then cutting taxes won't raise revenue. Given the US is already in deficit and Trump wants to spend billions on a wall and a number of other pet projects he needs to bring in more money or he will explode the deficit. I think we know what is going to happen if he follows his plan.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Iram Ali
    that awkward moment when @keithellison predicted Trump as Republican nominee...but TV host, guests laughed. https://t.co/EbleO23YLY
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,519
    Mr. Eek, you can buy a book for under (or just over, as you like) £2. If you've got an e-reader (or an app on your mobile/tablet which does the same job) it's a lot more bang for your buck.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,684
    edited July 2016

    “The NHS in England remains under significant financial pressure which is demonstrated in its accounts. It has again used a range of short term measures to manage its budgetary position but this is not a sustainable answer to the financial problems which it faces. The Department and its partners need to create and implement a robust, credible and comprehensive plan to move the NHS to a more sustainable financial footing.”

    Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 21 July 2016

    Good find Mr. Owls, but noting the problem does nothing to solve it. To do that we must first ask why the problem exists, do we not? What is causing these financial pressures? Just throwing money at the NHS hasn't worked and will continue not to work until the underlying causes are addressed. Nobody seems to want to talk about those. I wonder why.
    The USA 'throws' 17% of GDP at its healthcare system. UK spending is 7-8%. France and Germany spend >10%. Canada, which has a similar approach to us; i.e., direct use of tax revenues, without the extra admin. of 'insurance' and billing and reclaims, spends >10%.

    Unless all the 30-40 systems in other developed countries are even more wastefully organised, it appears that part of the NHS's problem clearly *is* lack of money, to the tune of 3-4% of GDP.
    I am not sure that wholly makes sense. A few years ago the NHS was not permanently in financial trouble. Spending on the NHS has increased year on year. So if it wasn't in trouble before and expenditure has increased why is it in trouble now?

    On top of that are the health systems in, say, France are reportedly in deficit too. So maybe proportion of GDP spent is not really a useful measure in working out what is causing the problem.

    I think we need a bit more thought and analysis before we decide to throw another 3-4% of GDP at the NHS. That sort of money has to come from somewhere and it ain't going to be from other government departments. So it can only come from the productive economy, which means less investment and less wealth.
    The costs of the NHS have also increased year on year. Major factors are likely to be an ageing population and increasingly advanced but expensive treatments.
    GP’s prescribing budgets are worked out on a basis of so many presceriptions per patient. A child under 1 (IIRC) is expected to need so many, then the figure falls until it splits (again IIRC) for patients in their 20’s when women are “expected” to need more medication than men. Figure rises significantly after 70, by which time about 10 x the prescriptions are needed per patient compared with 40 or so year olds.
    So as the elderly population rises ......
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,701
    NEW THREAD
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,945
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''It appears that people don't yet know about this, give it a month or two and see how it develops.'

    See how what develops? Plenty of people tell me they are afraid of a Trump presidency without ever explaining what it is they fear.

    I fear the beginning of the end of free trade, to the detriment of all.
    Yes, that's what has made me go from ambivalent about Trump to worried. Though what's the worst he can do in 4 years, plus he has a fiscal hawk and trade specialist as his running mate which makes me think it might not be so bad.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,684
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    Thrak said:

    taffys said:

    ''1st significant convention bounce CNN has found since 2000''

    John Redwood has pointed out that Trump's offer includes big tax cuts for America's middle class.

    Some of his opponents are so obsessed with calling him names they seem to have missed this rather important topic.

    So he will bankrupt his country as well as endanger the world.

    I think that's what they call a double whammy.
    Because there are no examples of tax cuts raising revenues?
    You have to be certain you are beyond the Laffer peak. The GOP always thinks they are, so far they've never been correct.
    You don't have to be certain. Even if you're 51% certain it could make sense.

    Heck, if you believe low taxes are a good thing in themselves then even if it's a 33% chance or less then it could make sense.
    Well if you aren't beyond the peak then cutting taxes won't raise revenue. Given the US is already in deficit and Trump wants to spend billions on a wall and a number of other pet projects he needs to bring in more money or he will explode the deficit. I think we know what is going to happen if he follows his plan.
    The Mexicans are going to build and pay for the wall.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Root has to be the best player ever for England in the modern age, surely? The only English person likely to catch Cook's stats as well.

    I agree. Only KP really comes close as a batsman and the amount of grief he brought with him... In contrast Root seems refreshingly normal.

    Out of interest, what do you consider the modern age?

    I just missed the end of Barrington's test career, but he had better bowling and batting averages than Root and, significantly, his batting averages improved with higher quality opposition. Against Australia, he averaged something like 68!

    PS I am a huge Root fan, so this is not meant in any way to detract from what he is accomplishing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,371
    Personally I think the NHS has done well to survive Brown's PFI madness.
    The Junior Docs should also accept Hunt's contract negotiations. Overall though I think it could do with an extra % or 2 of GDP spending - probably at the expense of welfare.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh. Sir Cliff says he'll see the BBC in court.

    I detest the idea of a privacy law, but this sort of collusion between police and journalists was way, way over the top, especially given the reputation of the man involved and the nature of the alleged offences. Sir Cliff has a point when he says the incident ruined him mentally.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/24/cliff-richard-set-for-court-battle-with-bbc-after-corporation-re/

    If any executives are found guilty then the fines and ruin should be on them personally. I am fed up with mine and lots of others hard earned being used to bail out these people.

    If proven it also shows the BBC didn't report the news they actually manufactured it. This would Hardly seem to be in line with their constitution and their regular claims of "impartiality"
  • Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    Because good relations between the West and Russia would be a disaster?

    We've taken the approach of treating Russia like a naughty schoolboy ever since Putin first rose to power. It's not working and is not in our interests.
    +1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,269

    “The NHS in England remains under significant financial pressure which is demonstrated in its accounts. It has again used a range of short term measures to manage its budgetary position but this is not a sustainable answer to the financial problems which it faces. The Department and its partners need to create and implement a robust, credible and comprehensive plan to move the NHS to a more sustainable financial footing.”

    Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 21 July 2016

    Good find Mr. Owls, but noting the problem does nothing to solve it. To do that we must first ask why the problem exists, do we not? What is causing these financial pressures? Just throwing money at the NHS hasn't worked and will continue not to work until the underlying causes are addressed. Nobody seems to want to talk about those. I wonder why.
    The USA 'throws' 17% of GDP at its healthcare system. UK spending is 7-8%. France and Germany spend >10%. Canada, which has a similar approach to us; i.e., direct use of tax revenues, without the extra admin. of 'insurance' and billing and reclaims, spends >10%.

    Unless all the 30-40 systems in other developed countries are even more wastefully organised, it appears that part of the NHS's problem clearly *is* lack of money, to the tune of 3-4% of GDP.
    I am not sure that wholly makes sense. A few years ago the NHS was not permanently in financial trouble. Spending on the NHS has increased year on year. So if it wasn't in trouble before and expenditure has increased why is it in trouble now?

    On top of that are the health systems in, say, France are reportedly in deficit too. So maybe proportion of GDP spent is not really a useful measure in working out what is causing the problem.

    I think we need a bit more thought and analysis before we decide to throw another 3-4% of GDP at the NHS. That sort of money has to come from somewhere and it ain't going to be from other government departments. So it can only come from the productive economy, which means less investment and less wealth.
    The costs of the NHS have also increased year on year. Major factors are likely to be an ageing population and increasingly advanced but expensive treatments.
    And the pensions of their staff. Never forget the pensions.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited July 2016
    .
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited July 2016
    Deleted
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,173
    GIN1138 said:

    Thrak said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dromedary said:

    The Clinton campaign accuses Trump of being backed by Russian intelligence.

    "I think when you put all this together, it's a disturbing picture," says her campaign manager Robby Mook. Well yes, I suppose you could say that the Kremlin being close to installing its man in the Oval Office might be considered "disturbing" by some. The Clinton side's problem is that they can't shout accusations in the way that Trump shouted about Obama's birthplace and will shout about Benghazi.

    Desperate stuff from the Clinton camp.
    But true, Trump is the Kremlin candidate. We should all be worried by the Trump/Putin connection.

    If Trump is friendly with Putin at least he won't be tempted to "push the red button" if US/Russia have a blow up so that's got to be good?
    GIN, you misunderstand, to the frothers RUSSIA = PUTIN = BAD, just the same as SNP. If you look through these guys ear you will see daylight.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Another day of bad news to read, there's going to be serious problems in Germany if these small scale attacks continue over the summer. Meanwhile France decide that the border they need to police extra hard is the one in Dover.

    If anyone wants to avoid France and Germany over the summer, I can recommend Kiev as somewhere very nice to spend a long weekend. Clean, good weather, lots of English spoken and, thanks to their currency crashing among their troubles a couple of years ago, really cheap to stay. :)

    @Sandpit
    Do you need a visa to go to Ukraine if you are from the UK?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Another day of bad news to read, there's going to be serious problems in Germany if these small scale attacks continue over the summer. Meanwhile France decide that the border they need to police extra hard is the one in Dover.

    If anyone wants to avoid France and Germany over the summer, I can recommend Kiev as somewhere very nice to spend a long weekend. Clean, good weather, lots of English spoken and, thanks to their currency crashing among their troubles a couple of years ago, really cheap to stay. :)

    @Sandpit
    Do you need a visa to go to Ukraine if you are from the UK?
    No, passport stamp on arrival.
This discussion has been closed.