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The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.0 -
We had the joy of Twitter half-wits going into paroxysms based on the relative font sizes of the Trump/Pence logo versus the egalitarian equal font sizes used by Clinton/Kaine. In future, I'm going to use this as my contemporary version of 'fiddling while Rome burns'.Theuniondivvie said:
I suppose there was a whole tranche of CK visual branding that they had to avoid.rottenborough said:Clinton-Kaine new logo is pretty bad. Looks like a middle-ranking english housing association.
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Aaargh, not fair!Charles said:
She wins...DecrepitJohnL said:Off-topic: I've just spent my three quid on Margaret Thatcher's Long Walk to Finchley from the BBC's store. No spoilers please.
You've ruined the surprise now.0 -
I enjoyed the newsreaders struggling to say they were in a {dark-coloured} {people-carrier} without it sounding like a {dark-coloured people}-{carrier}. It is surprisingly difficult.FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.0 -
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away0 -
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.0 -
There was a YouGov about this a couple of months ago.TheWhiteRabbit said:
grassroots sport, I thinkPlatoSaid said:Not a football person, why do they get public money?
Marcher Lord
"The FA governing body receives £30million to £40million of public funding" https://t.co/N4tINoM01o
As I'm not a football supporter I actually learned more from the YouGov questions than I did from the original FA awareness campaign which I'd completely missed.0 -
Brexit-lite is an untenable position in the end. Tension with the EU is only going to increase with a euro-fudge and lead to an even more Eurosceptic population.kle4 said:
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.Yorkcity said:Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party.
It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
It isn't about what Brexiter and Remoaner politicians want.0 -
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-368773880 -
I won quite a large stack with 7 2 off suit once.Floater said:So, if the Establishment had changed the rules they might have won?
They thought they had all the cards... but 7 2 really is a crap hand0 -
If Corbyn and McDonnell make it to the next election* and lose it**, they won't just step down and let the moderates have the party back. They'll blame those in the party who oppose them for not campaigning enthusiastically enough, and for not even wanting to win if it meant Corbyn in No. 10, and cite the mandate from the membership as a reason for staying on. It's all a ploy to buy time, as you say.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. Discourages a split to boot. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
*70% chance
**80% chance given the former0 -
That was very funny - I saw a clip on Twitter and it was painful. The problem now is that the moment the media appear to deliberately avoid mentioning the identity/appearance of the perpetrator - almost everyone jumps to one conclusion. And if it's something else, they aren't believed precisely because of avoiding the issue.Ishmael_X said:
I enjoyed the newsreaders struggling to say they were in a {dark-coloured} {people-carrier} without it sounding like a {dark-coloured people}-{carrier}. It is surprisingly difficult.FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
That Spalding police had to repeatedly say a domestic shooting speaks volumes. And the peculiar relief in the MSM that the killer in Munich was *just* a Columbine style killer - he bears almost no resemblance to Breivik, but he's being regularly bracketed with him.0 -
They were pushing the brevik / racist language angle to the max for most of yesterday before a subtle changes to the articles to "interest in mass shooters including brevik" (which is what the germans actually said). And the racist stuff actually came from those shouting abuse at him.PlatoSaid said:
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.0 -
Was watching the 1983 election yesterday, every Labour member should do the same before voting for Corbyn.GeoffM said:
Aaargh, not fair!Charles said:
She wins...DecrepitJohnL said:Off-topic: I've just spent my three quid on Margaret Thatcher's Long Walk to Finchley from the BBC's store. No spoilers please.
You've ruined the surprise now.0 -
Almost certainly both of them, but neither realise that their handler is now playing them off for laughs.SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
In the same way they pretended nothing much happened in Cologne? It's later emerged via leaks that 1800 women were assaulted by 2000 men.williamglenn said:
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-368773880 -
Would this be the same respectable German media who didn't notice what was going on at new year? And It isnt just the name issue.williamglenn said:
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-368773880 -
Some of the euro-phobic Right won't be happy until the UK is physically towed into the middle of the Atlantic. You can't please all the people all the time.kle4 said:
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.Yorkcity said:Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party.
It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
However, we should remember that all the versions of Brexit are, in the medium term, pretty much a wash in terms of the economy. It's the amount of short term pain that differs between the various scenarios.0 -
The Swiss have not given in. Negotiations on implementation of the popular will continue, meanwhile the existing rules apply.HYUFD said:
Yes but the UK will now be alongside Switzerland and the French also have Le Pen looming on the horizon and she also wants to control free movement, even Juppe said a deal may be possiblehamiltonace said:
On a long term basis the coalition allowed Lib Dem senior figures to get experience. While many of them are no longer in parliament several of them are young enough to come back. The Lib Dems got squashed when austerity was the key battleground. There was no middle ground left. They now have a word to own which is "Remain". There are 48% of the voter base who have no-one voicing their concerns in England. It is still too early to say but council by-election results are no longer going backwards. I think the Lib Dems should be aiming to get back to 15% by Xmas and be the third party of the UK again.JackW said:
It's such a ludicrous assumption, it's barely worthy of comment. It's the sort of patronizing drivel that got Labour into difficulty at the start of their spectacularly awful Coalition talks with the LibDems.FrankBooth said:I think the point he's making is that the Lib Dems stayed onside because of the perks of being in government. I'm sure Clegg, Laws and Alexander got pretty much what they wanted but they weren't representative of their voters or members.
The LibDem members overwhelmingly endorsed the Coalition deal and LibDems voters are such a diverse grouping I doubt even an agreement with Mother Theresa would have garnered majority support.
The first major challenge on Brexit is starting at Dover. When Switzerland voted to control free movement of people 2 years ago the French slowed down the border and quickly the Swiss gave in. Anyone who thinks that long queues at Dover are a short term problem don't know the French. This will be a recurring theme over the next few months and there is almost nothing the Tories can do. The more they shout at the French the worse it will get. This does not just affect tourism it will slow down the economy as well.0 -
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.0 -
Absolutely. I followed the whole thing live on Twitter - and the translations from Germans were at complete contrast with what we were being told. It's clearly deliberate. If I can grasp the details lying in bed, then a journalist should be more than able to do so. The Times misattributed the whole conversation just yesterday. I just sighed.FrancisUrquhart said:
They were pushing the brevik / racist language angle to the max for most of yesterday before a subtle changes to the articles to "interest in mass shooters including brevik" (which is what the germans actually said). And the racist stuff actually came from those shouting abuse at him.PlatoSaid said:
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.FrancisUrquhart said:
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.PlatoSaid said:
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.FrancisUrquhart said:Following yokels midnight quiz, this article has some interesting info.
Munich mall attack: Calls in Germany for tighter gun laws
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36877388
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.
It comes across as a massive misinformation campaign that's quietly tweaked behind the scenes 24hrs+ after the event.
I don't know how many are being fooled by it. Nice was a classic example writ large. Bad Not Really A Muslim ISIS Lone Wolf Loser Who Didn't Plan Nutter - becomes after a couple of days E100k Blood Money, Planned Months In Advance, Lots Of ISIS Links Guy.0 -
Another wicket in the cricket. Doesn't look like we will need any overs from Mark David.0
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Just 313 more to avoid the follow on!!FrancisUrquhart said:Another wicket in the cricket. Doesn't look like we will need any overs from Mark David.
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Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.kle4 said:
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).0 -
Stodge said
'Had the Conservative and Lib Dem negotiating teams had a fortnight to conclude a programme for Government, it would have been even better but there is this absurd nonsense we have to have a Prime Minister at all times even at the cost of democracy (as we've just seen) means we confront the old adage that decisions taken in haste offer plenty of time for repentance.'
But we had a PM - Gordon Brown - and he could have remained in office for a few more weeks. Indeed costitutionally he had every right to do so even after the Coalition deal had been made.Brown had the option of deciding to meet Parliament and resigning only when defeated on the Queen's Speech he had presented. Had that happened Cameron would not have become PM until Whitsun 2010.
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That's always been my take - the LDs are Rural Labour. Or they werenunu said:
Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.kle4 said:
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).
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Time and again Labour's lack of pragmatism comes back to bite them. Because of their fixation on love of party, they are unable to come to terms with reality.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop. Now, they're just being sustained by serial wishful thinking.0 -
Rod Liddle is right on the button.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weve-become-masters-of-delusion-over-this-murderous-islamism-7dc2wxzth0 -
I think that's certainly a part of it - my personal theory however is that the reason for the total wipeout in the SW was because, as a Coalition happy figure, counter-intuitively Cameron was seen as an acceptable Tory to vote for by some of the previous LD voters. I feel to recover here the LDs need not only the anti-Tory vote - which whatever they decide they still are the main option - but for the Tories to be less acceptable to the liberally inclined in the way that Cameron generally was.nunu said:
Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.kle4 said:
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).
It's not so much that the SW is liberal and so they vote LD, but that the whole area is pretty Tory (even Labour figures in my experience are pretty blue round here), and a LD can pick up the anti and soft Tory votes, if you have a more hard right stance nationally from the Tories. Hence the moniker Blue Liberal - the figures attracted by the rightish of the LDs and who did vote for Cameron.0 -
What was hilarious was people not listening to the 'wait for the other side to bat' rule in terms of judging the first innings performance, and already moaning about the disgraceful pitch and boring match.FrancisUrquhart said:Another wicket in the cricket. Doesn't look like we will need any overs from Mark David.
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No it isn't, it's about what is the least painful option in the long run, and the most advantageous position in the long run. You say that isn't Brexit-Lite - eg single market access, etc - others say that is, including some serious Leavers/brokenwheel said:
Brexit-lite is an untenable position in the end. Tension with the EU is only going to increase with a euro-fudge and lead to an even more Eurosceptic population.kle4 said:
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.Yorkcity said:Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party.
It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
It isn't about what Brexiter and Remoaner politicians want.0 -
There was a lot written about Trump doing that during the primary campaign.John_M said:In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-2016-fighter-jock-2137610 -
Completely.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Unless there is a real 'big event' (rather than the drip, drip of small accusations against Corbyn) then he'll win in September. I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.0 -
Oh that is interesting, thanks - I thought Boyd's work was still little known outside MilInt circles.williamglenn said:
There was a lot written about Trump doing that during the primary campaign.John_M said:In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-2016-fighter-jock-2137610 -
David planned it for a year.-1
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Source?nunu said:David planned it for a year.
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I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.0 -
It's on Sky News. Bought the gun on the dark web. Now waiting for tedious calls to regulate the dark web.FrancisUrquhart said:
Source?nunu said:David planned it for a year.
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HYUFD said:hamiltonace said:HYUFD said:hamiltonace said:
That sounds as woolly as the present Tory position. Under that statement millions of people will be affected some greatly some not at all. The holidaymakers at Dover are a small subset of the UK population. To me who is staying in Scotland for the summer this issue is irrelevant but for them it is really important.JackW said:
It's such a ludicrous assumption, it's barely worthy of comment. It's the sort of patronizing drivel that got Labour into difficulty at the start of their spectacularly awful Coalition talks with the LibDems.FrankBooth said:I think the point he's making is that the Lib Dems stayed onside because of the perks of being in government. I'm sure Clegg, Laws and Alexander got pretty much what they wanted but they weren't representative of their voters or members.
There will be some free movement with controls for some single market access0 -
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates0 -
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.Charles said:
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates0 -
I see the Darwin award for 2016 has likely been bagged by the woman who stepped out of a car during an argument...with said car being in a Siberian Tiger enclosure.0
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One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.0 -
I follow Darwin Awards on Twitter - I don't often forward them because they're so wincing - and a bit much for my cute animal pix followersJohn_M said:I see the Darwin award for 2016 has likely been bagged by the woman who stepped out of a car during an argument...with said car being in a Siberian Tiger enclosure.
BTW - what's your Twitter handle? I'll add you to my list.0 -
His shrink will presumably get a lot of attention for not raising him as a serious threat.Thrak said:
Less time than the Columbine killers but quite typical. Festering resentment against their peers over a long period but did he, similarly, telegraph his intentions in plain sight?nunu said:David planned it for a year.
0 -
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
0 -
According to Corbyn, she wanted to speak to the staff. Oh, it's a cray cray mixed up world on Planet Jezza.DaemonBarber said:
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?DaemonBarber said:
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
Parliament has smart keys. You can tell who opened which door with which key, for obvious reasons.PlatoSaid said:
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?DaemonBarber said:
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.PlatoSaid said:
One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.0 -
Woakes strikes again.0
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Germans says the gun was another one of those eastern European "deactivated" ones that are a piece of piss to make fire live ammo.0
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Perhaps to get it ready for new occupant, check it was cleared properly, Doh! It was the Office Manager that was involved surprisingly.DaemonBarber said:
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
If Walder Frey was a Labour moderate, he'd have tried to kill Rob Stark by putting extra sugar in his pudding and hoping weight gain would finish him off.rottenborough said:
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.PlatoSaid said:
One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.Charles said:
Agreed.John_M said:
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.Charles said:
Do you believe him?SouthamObserver said:
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.Pulpstar said:
Can you summarise ?SouthamObserver said:Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.0 -
Do they file down the firing pins - and then get a replacement part to reverse the process?FrancisUrquhart said:Germans says the gun was another one of those eastern European "deactivated" ones that are a piece of piss to make fire live ammo.
0 -
cricket going just fine...0
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The article said the second time she went in the hapless MP's were in a huddle in the office.John_M said:
Parliament has smart keys. You can tell who opened which door with which key, for obvious reasons.PlatoSaid said:
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?DaemonBarber said:
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?SimonStClare said:BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?0 -
I thought it was very telling that Corbyn said after his leadership speech that he'd 'forget' all the horrible things his colleagues had said about him.rottenborough said:
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.
"He said: "There is a huge amount of talent on the Labour benches. We are part of but not the entirety of the Labour Party and the Labour movement.
"And I hope that those that may not agree with me politically, may not even like me personally - I find that hard to believe, but there are some people apparently who don't like me - I hold out the hand of friendship to them all, because come September when this election is done and dusted, there will still be a Tory Government in office, there will still be grotesque levels of inequality in our society, there will still be whole parts of this country that are left-behind Britain."
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-launches-bid-to-stay-labour-leader-with-workplace-discrimination-vow-113640747139960 -
I pretty much agree. Pathetic really.kle4 said:
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.Charles said:
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates0 -
Agreeing with me is not inherently pathetic!Charles said:
I pretty much agree. Pathetic really.kle4 said:
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.Charles said:
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
0 -
I agree with @kle4kle4 said:
Agreeing with me is not inherently pathetic!Charles said:
I pretty much agree. Pathetic really.kle4 said:
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.Charles said:
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).kle4 said:
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates0 -
In the US, Boyd's work is reasonably widely known in business strategy circles and very widely known in the officer corps of the military in general, not just MilInt, if not to the public at large.John_M said:
Oh that is interesting, thanks - I thought Boyd's work was still little known outside MilInt circles.williamglenn said:
There was a lot written about Trump doing that during the primary campaign.John_M said:In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-2016-fighter-jock-213761
I posted on PB a couple of articles published during the early stages of the primaries, once it was clear Trump was not just a fluke flash in the pan about how his campaign was, consciously or not, effectively using the OODA loop to wrong foot and outsmart everyone.0 -
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
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Interesting statement from Liz Mcinnes MP re-last year's Leadership contest.
' The turning point in the campaign was the decision of the party to instruct MPs to abstain on the second reading of the Welfare Reform bill last July. Jeremy was the only candidate to vote against the plans, along with 47 other Labour MPs – myself included. It was the right decision to vote against the bill, and I believe that was the moment which convinced many to vote for Jeremy.'
Totally agree with that. Harriet Harman is to blame for Corbyn's ascent to the leadership - rather than the MPs who nominated him. By her action Harman revealed her own lack of suitability for leadership.0
This discussion has been closed.