According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
Clinton-Kaine new logo is pretty bad. Looks like a middle-ranking english housing association.
I suppose there was a whole tranche of CK visual branding that they had to avoid.
We had the joy of Twitter half-wits going into paroxysms based on the relative font sizes of the Trump/Pence logo versus the egalitarian equal font sizes used by Clinton/Kaine. In future, I'm going to use this as my contemporary version of 'fiddling while Rome burns'.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I enjoyed the newsreaders struggling to say they were in a {dark-coloured} {people-carrier} without it sounding like a {dark-coloured people}-{carrier}. It is surprisingly difficult.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.
Not a football person, why do they get public money?
Marcher Lord "The FA governing body receives £30million to £40million of public funding" https://t.co/N4tINoM01o
grassroots sport, I think
There was a YouGov about this a couple of months ago. As I'm not a football supporter I actually learned more from the YouGov questions than I did from the original FA awareness campaign which I'd completely missed.
Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party. It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.
Brexit-lite is an untenable position in the end. Tension with the EU is only going to increase with a euro-fudge and lead to an even more Eurosceptic population.
It isn't about what Brexiter and Remoaner politicians want.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. Discourages a split to boot. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
If Corbyn and McDonnell make it to the next election* and lose it**, they won't just step down and let the moderates have the party back. They'll blame those in the party who oppose them for not campaigning enthusiastically enough, and for not even wanting to win if it meant Corbyn in No. 10, and cite the mandate from the membership as a reason for staying on. It's all a ploy to buy time, as you say.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I enjoyed the newsreaders struggling to say they were in a {dark-coloured} {people-carrier} without it sounding like a {dark-coloured people}-{carrier}. It is surprisingly difficult.
That was very funny - I saw a clip on Twitter and it was painful. The problem now is that the moment the media appear to deliberately avoid mentioning the identity/appearance of the perpetrator - almost everyone jumps to one conclusion. And if it's something else, they aren't believed precisely because of avoiding the issue.
That Spalding police had to repeatedly say a domestic shooting speaks volumes. And the peculiar relief in the MSM that the killer in Munich was *just* a Columbine style killer - he bears almost no resemblance to Breivik, but he's being regularly bracketed with him.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.
They were pushing the brevik / racist language angle to the max for most of yesterday before a subtle changes to the articles to "interest in mass shooters including brevik" (which is what the germans actually said). And the racist stuff actually came from those shouting abuse at him.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
Almost certainly both of them, but neither realise that their handler is now playing them off for laughs.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'
In the same way they pretended nothing much happened in Cologne? It's later emerged via leaks that 1800 women were assaulted by 2000 men.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
To be fair to the BBC, the German 'respectable' media are still calling him 'David S.'
Would this be the same respectable German media who didn't notice what was going on at new year? And It isnt just the name issue.
Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party. It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.
Some of the euro-phobic Right won't be happy until the UK is physically towed into the middle of the Atlantic. You can't please all the people all the time.
However, we should remember that all the versions of Brexit are, in the medium term, pretty much a wash in terms of the economy. It's the amount of short term pain that differs between the various scenarios.
I think the point he's making is that the Lib Dems stayed onside because of the perks of being in government. I'm sure Clegg, Laws and Alexander got pretty much what they wanted but they weren't representative of their voters or members.
It's such a ludicrous assumption, it's barely worthy of comment. It's the sort of patronizing drivel that got Labour into difficulty at the start of their spectacularly awful Coalition talks with the LibDems.
The LibDem members overwhelmingly endorsed the Coalition deal and LibDems voters are such a diverse grouping I doubt even an agreement with Mother Theresa would have garnered majority support.
On a long term basis the coalition allowed Lib Dem senior figures to get experience. While many of them are no longer in parliament several of them are young enough to come back. The Lib Dems got squashed when austerity was the key battleground. There was no middle ground left. They now have a word to own which is "Remain". There are 48% of the voter base who have no-one voicing their concerns in England. It is still too early to say but council by-election results are no longer going backwards. I think the Lib Dems should be aiming to get back to 15% by Xmas and be the third party of the UK again.
The first major challenge on Brexit is starting at Dover. When Switzerland voted to control free movement of people 2 years ago the French slowed down the border and quickly the Swiss gave in. Anyone who thinks that long queues at Dover are a short term problem don't know the French. This will be a recurring theme over the next few months and there is almost nothing the Tories can do. The more they shout at the French the worse it will get. This does not just affect tourism it will slow down the economy as well.
Yes but the UK will now be alongside Switzerland and the French also have Le Pen looming on the horizon and she also wants to control free movement, even Juppe said a deal may be possible
The Swiss have not given in. Negotiations on implementation of the popular will continue, meanwhile the existing rules apply.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
According to Breitbart - the BBC has edited its articles without update to include Ali.
The have been playing silly buggers since it happened. They claimed for over 12hrs that the individual hadn't been named...when a casual view of the guardian, mail, telegraph not only had his name but lots of specific details about his life.
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
I haven't checked the veracity of several other Twitter screenshots of his other social media accounts where he calls himself Ali. There's so much wishful thinking blameshifting going on - it's impossible to gauge what's accurate.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.
They were pushing the brevik / racist language angle to the max for most of yesterday before a subtle changes to the articles to "interest in mass shooters including brevik" (which is what the germans actually said). And the racist stuff actually came from those shouting abuse at him.
Absolutely. I followed the whole thing live on Twitter - and the translations from Germans were at complete contrast with what we were being told. It's clearly deliberate. If I can grasp the details lying in bed, then a journalist should be more than able to do so. The Times misattributed the whole conversation just yesterday. I just sighed.
It comes across as a massive misinformation campaign that's quietly tweaked behind the scenes 24hrs+ after the event.
I don't know how many are being fooled by it. Nice was a classic example writ large. Bad Not Really A Muslim ISIS Lone Wolf Loser Who Didn't Plan Nutter - becomes after a couple of days E100k Blood Money, Planned Months In Advance, Lots Of ISIS Links Guy.
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.
Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.
Stodge said 'Had the Conservative and Lib Dem negotiating teams had a fortnight to conclude a programme for Government, it would have been even better but there is this absurd nonsense we have to have a Prime Minister at all times even at the cost of democracy (as we've just seen) means we confront the old adage that decisions taken in haste offer plenty of time for repentance.'
But we had a PM - Gordon Brown - and he could have remained in office for a few more weeks. Indeed costitutionally he had every right to do so even after the Coalition deal had been made.Brown had the option of deciding to meet Parliament and resigning only when defeated on the Queen's Speech he had presented. Had that happened Cameron would not have become PM until Whitsun 2010.
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.
Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.
That's always been my take - the LDs are Rural Labour. Or they were
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Time and again Labour's lack of pragmatism comes back to bite them. Because of their fixation on love of party, they are unable to come to terms with reality.
In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop. Now, they're just being sustained by serial wishful thinking.
Mr. kle4, I agree (though I'm hardly a Lib Dem target voter).
I was thinking of Blue Liberals in the West Country, although it is possible I overestimate how significant they will be.
Do people in the west country really vote for the libdems because they are liberals or because they are parts that are really poor and overwhemed with second homes? They have to vote lib dems because Labour are nowhere there.
I think that's certainly a part of it - my personal theory however is that the reason for the total wipeout in the SW was because, as a Coalition happy figure, counter-intuitively Cameron was seen as an acceptable Tory to vote for by some of the previous LD voters. I feel to recover here the LDs need not only the anti-Tory vote - which whatever they decide they still are the main option - but for the Tories to be less acceptable to the liberally inclined in the way that Cameron generally was.
It's not so much that the SW is liberal and so they vote LD, but that the whole area is pretty Tory (even Labour figures in my experience are pretty blue round here), and a LD can pick up the anti and soft Tory votes, if you have a more hard right stance nationally from the Tories. Hence the moniker Blue Liberal - the figures attracted by the rightish of the LDs and who did vote for Cameron.
Another wicket in the cricket. Doesn't look like we will need any overs from Mark David.
What was hilarious was people not listening to the 'wait for the other side to bat' rule in terms of judging the first innings performance, and already moaning about the disgraceful pitch and boring match.
Can not see Brexit light pleasing the right of the conservative party. It is like offering an alcoholic at a party a bottle of becks blue.
Indeed. Someone has to be upset with whatever Brexit we get, and I'd rather it was them to be honest, but if I were them I'd fight tooth and nail, with confidence of success as well.
Brexit-lite is an untenable position in the end. Tension with the EU is only going to increase with a euro-fudge and lead to an even more Eurosceptic population.
It isn't about what Brexiter and Remoaner politicians want.
No it isn't, it's about what is the least painful option in the long run, and the most advantageous position in the long run. You say that isn't Brexit-Lite - eg single market access, etc - others say that is, including some serious Leavers/
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
Completely.
Unless there is a real 'big event' (rather than the drip, drip of small accusations against Corbyn) then he'll win in September. I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
I think the point he's making is that the Lib Dems stayed onside because of the perks of being in government. I'm sure Clegg, Laws and Alexander got pretty much what they wanted but they weren't representative of their voters or members.
It's such a ludicrous assumption, it's barely worthy of comment. It's the sort of patronizing drivel that got Labour into difficulty at the start of their spectacularly awful Coalition talks with the LibDems.
There will be some free movement with controls for some single market access
That sounds as woolly as the present Tory position. Under that statement millions of people will be affected some greatly some not at all. The holidaymakers at Dover are a small subset of the UK population. To me who is staying in Scotland for the summer this issue is irrelevant but for them it is really important.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.
I see the Darwin award for 2016 has likely been bagged by the woman who stepped out of a car during an argument...with said car being in a Siberian Tiger enclosure.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.
Less time than the Columbine killers but quite typical. Festering resentment against their peers over a long period but did he, similarly, telegraph his intentions in plain sight?
I see the Darwin award for 2016 has likely been bagged by the woman who stepped out of a car during an argument...with said car being in a Siberian Tiger enclosure.
I follow Darwin Awards on Twitter - I don't often forward them because they're so wincing - and a bit much for my cute animal pix followers
BTW - what's your Twitter handle? I'll add you to my list.
Less time than the Columbine killers but quite typical. Festering resentment against their peers over a long period but did he, similarly, telegraph his intentions in plain sight?
His shrink will presumably get a lot of attention for not raising him as a serious threat.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
According to Corbyn, she wanted to speak to the staff. Oh, it's a cray cray mixed up world on Planet Jezza.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?
Parliament has smart keys. You can tell who opened which door with which key, for obvious reasons.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
Perhaps to get it ready for new occupant, check it was cleared properly, Doh! It was the Office Manager that was involved surprisingly.
Wow, that McDonnell interview was amazing. On so many levels. Most important, he gave a pathway for saving Labour from the hard left.
Can you summarise ?
I am working on a short article about it that I hope to persuade Mike to publish, but it has everything to do with the fact that - for the first time - McDonnell said that he and Corbyn will stand down if labour loses the next general election.
Do you believe him?
Seems to me to be a classic divide and rule technique - persuading some of the activists that they don't need to split the party but just keep their heads down and it will all go away
I think it's quite a clever ploy. As I said down thread, it will also buy time for the Corbynites to change Labour party structures to cement their power base. The future is McDonnell's boot stamping on Labour's face forever.
Agreed.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot? Maybe we can fix the electorate? Maybe Len will help us in 2018? Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
One bit of Labour's collective psychology has always perplexed me. The desire to put Party before all else/being comradely vs the shock troop vituperation by activists re the likes of Tory Scum.
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.
If Walder Frey was a Labour moderate, he'd have tried to kill Rob Stark by putting extra sugar in his pudding and hoping weight gain would finish him off.
BBC - "A new Labour row has broken out over a formal complaint that an ex-shadow cabinet minister's office was accessed without her permission. - Seema Malhotra has written to the Commons Speaker, saying the "privacy, security and confidentiality" of her Westminster office was violated. - Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said his office manager thought the premises were no longer occupied."
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
If they thought the office was empty, why were they there?
To check it was clean for the next occupant? I really don't understand this story - how did Seema know someone had opened the door if it was no one was there - the 'burglary' intent implicit in the whole fuss? Why lock yourselves in an office if you were there?
Parliament has smart keys. You can tell who opened which door with which key, for obvious reasons.
The article said the second time she went in the hapless MP's were in a huddle in the office.
Yes, it seems likely to me that when they lose to Corbyn again the majority will knuckle down and keep quiet. They will hope for something to turn up.
I thought it was very telling that Corbyn said after his leadership speech that he'd 'forget' all the horrible things his colleagues had said about him.
"He said: "There is a huge amount of talent on the Labour benches. We are part of but not the entirety of the Labour Party and the Labour movement.
"And I hope that those that may not agree with me politically, may not even like me personally - I find that hard to believe, but there are some people apparently who don't like me - I hold out the hand of friendship to them all, because come September when this election is done and dusted, there will still be a Tory Government in office, there will still be grotesque levels of inequality in our society, there will still be whole parts of this country that are left-behind Britain."
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.
I think you underestimate the ability of the Labour MPs to capitulate when they lose.
Sure, but to capitulate will see the boundary changes being used to remove the perceived ringleaders and to impose a greater number of the left in safe seats (although they might be fooled by the likes of @NickPalmer).
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
I just don't think they have the fight in them - if they lose this leadership contest I can see a bare handful going Indy, if any do, and the rest will either cling to the hope that in the long term, should Corbyn lead the party to a calamitous result, that the membership will change, or they will resign themselves to being deselected, or just keep their heads down and not restand.
Oh that is interesting, thanks - I thought Boyd's work was still little known outside MilInt circles.
In the US, Boyd's work is reasonably widely known in business strategy circles and very widely known in the officer corps of the military in general, not just MilInt, if not to the public at large.
I posted on PB a couple of articles published during the early stages of the primaries, once it was clear Trump was not just a fluke flash in the pan about how his campaign was, consciously or not, effectively using the OODA loop to wrong foot and outsmart everyone.
Interesting statement from Liz Mcinnes MP re-last year's Leadership contest. ' The turning point in the campaign was the decision of the party to instruct MPs to abstain on the second reading of the Welfare Reform bill last July. Jeremy was the only candidate to vote against the plans, along with 47 other Labour MPs – myself included. It was the right decision to vote against the bill, and I believe that was the moment which convinced many to vote for Jeremy.' Totally agree with that. Harriet Harman is to blame for Corbyn's ascent to the leadership - rather than the MPs who nominated him. By her action Harman revealed her own lack of suitability for leadership.
Comments
Add in the mystery of no details given of the team of individuals who tried to kidnap the serviceman.
You've ruined the surprise now.
I'm paying more attention to Al Jaz on subjects like this. The BBC have lost their heads completely.
As I'm not a football supporter I actually learned more from the YouGov questions than I did from the original FA awareness campaign which I'd completely missed.
It isn't about what Brexiter and Remoaner politicians want.
This is all getting so confusing, I’ve no idea which of them is the MI5 mole – any guesses?
*70% chance
**80% chance given the former
That Spalding police had to repeatedly say a domestic shooting speaks volumes. And the peculiar relief in the MSM that the killer in Munich was *just* a Columbine style killer - he bears almost no resemblance to Breivik, but he's being regularly bracketed with him.
However, we should remember that all the versions of Brexit are, in the medium term, pretty much a wash in terms of the economy. It's the amount of short term pain that differs between the various scenarios.
As people may have guessed, I'm not a natural Labour supporter. But it is extraordinary how they are looking for excuses to avoid facing up to reality.
Maybe we can keep him off the ballot?
Maybe we can fix the electorate?
Maybe Len will help us in 2018?
Maybe it will all go away in 2020?
The reality is that, because of the stupidity of Ed Miliband and those MPs who have Cornyn a sympathy nomination, the moderates have lost their party. With the unions and the members backing the radicals it isn't coming back.
They need to accept that and move on from denial.
It comes across as a massive misinformation campaign that's quietly tweaked behind the scenes 24hrs+ after the event.
I don't know how many are being fooled by it. Nice was a classic example writ large. Bad Not Really A Muslim ISIS Lone Wolf Loser Who Didn't Plan Nutter - becomes after a couple of days E100k Blood Money, Planned Months In Advance, Lots Of ISIS Links Guy.
'Had the Conservative and Lib Dem negotiating teams had a fortnight to conclude a programme for Government, it would have been even better but there is this absurd nonsense we have to have a Prime Minister at all times even at the cost of democracy (as we've just seen) means we confront the old adage that decisions taken in haste offer plenty of time for repentance.'
But we had a PM - Gordon Brown - and he could have remained in office for a few more weeks. Indeed costitutionally he had every right to do so even after the Coalition deal had been made.Brown had the option of deciding to meet Parliament and resigning only when defeated on the Queen's Speech he had presented. Had that happened Cameron would not have become PM until Whitsun 2010.
In my old world we'd call it as Momentum getting inside the Labour moderates' OODA loop. Now, they're just being sustained by serial wishful thinking.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weve-become-masters-of-delusion-over-this-murderous-islamism-7dc2wxzth
It's not so much that the SW is liberal and so they vote LD, but that the whole area is pretty Tory (even Labour figures in my experience are pretty blue round here), and a LD can pick up the anti and soft Tory votes, if you have a more hard right stance nationally from the Tories. Hence the moniker Blue Liberal - the figures attracted by the rightish of the LDs and who did vote for Cameron.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-2016-fighter-jock-213761
Unless there is a real 'big event' (rather than the drip, drip of small accusations against Corbyn) then he'll win in September. I really can't see anything other than a split coming down the line, which will finish them as an electoral force under FPTP.
Over time the system will change - if the left can manage some rule changes plus some reselections it's hard to see a way back for the moderates
Tories don't do this stuff. It's kill or be killed when it comes to leadership - and don't get too rude about anyone else - or face a great deal of tutting.
BTW - what's your Twitter handle? I'll add you to my list.
"He said: "There is a huge amount of talent on the Labour benches. We are part of but not the entirety of the Labour Party and the Labour movement.
"And I hope that those that may not agree with me politically, may not even like me personally - I find that hard to believe, but there are some people apparently who don't like me - I hold out the hand of friendship to them all, because come September when this election is done and dusted, there will still be a Tory Government in office, there will still be grotesque levels of inequality in our society, there will still be whole parts of this country that are left-behind Britain."
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-launches-bid-to-stay-labour-leader-with-workplace-discrimination-vow-11364074713996
I posted on PB a couple of articles published during the early stages of the primaries, once it was clear Trump was not just a fluke flash in the pan about how his campaign was, consciously or not, effectively using the OODA loop to wrong foot and outsmart everyone.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
' The turning point in the campaign was the decision of the party to instruct MPs to abstain on the second reading of the Welfare Reform bill last July. Jeremy was the only candidate to vote against the plans, along with 47 other Labour MPs – myself included. It was the right decision to vote against the bill, and I believe that was the moment which convinced many to vote for Jeremy.'
Totally agree with that. Harriet Harman is to blame for Corbyn's ascent to the leadership - rather than the MPs who nominated him. By her action Harman revealed her own lack of suitability for leadership.