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SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May – the first national polling since she became PM

ComRes online poll for Indy/S Mirror:
More than half say that Theresa May is a strong leader (55%). Only 13% say the same for Jeremy Corbyn

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,245
    First!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    Bah! Beaten by 'Discussion ID required'.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    not_on_fire said:

    Moses_ said:

    SeanT said:

    The Bastille Day Dead. An updating page...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/who-were-the-nice-attack-victims-bastille-day-dead

    Already quite heartbreaking. Six out of seven members of one family...

    Not sure if already posted but IS now claiming responsibility for Nice.

    I heard on Radio 4 yesterday a commentator saying we just have to learn to live with terrorism. Sorry no we don't. I am fed up with namby bloody pamby way we always seem to deal with this type of incident. I am fed up with world leaders stating we will never give in before disappearing back into their bullet proof limos behind huge security.

    After seeing the carnage in Nice and just imagining its was my family lying on the streets I want hell and damnation brought down on the terrorists heads from a huge height....... And I want it to hurt....

    A lot.
    What exactly do you propose to do? Bombing Middle Eastern countries has demonstrably made the problem worse.

    Dying as a result of terrorism is still far less likely than dying in a car accident or of a heart attack. It's always shocking when this happens but lets keep things in proportion.
    It is apparent that these attacks are not going away - indeed they are becoming more common. Wringing hands, condemning them and expressing solidarity is all very well, but at some point you have to DO something. It's time we began talking with both NATO and our allies in the middle east, with regard to start planning a military option to be employed. When, what etc is to be determined. No knee jerk reactions, no half baked responses - we should begin to plan for a comprehensive military option to be deployed at our discretion to clear the I.S. nest of vipers out once and for all. When the time is judged to be right we move, but not until then.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    Off-topic:

    I think I need to lose some weight. My two-year old just pointed at a picture of a lying-down frog in a nursery rhyme book and said: "Daddy!"
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    That's just a cheat!

    Incidentally thanks for your recommendation of 'Countdown to Zero Day'. It's on my summer reading list.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited July 2016
    And people thought Cameron versus Miliband was a non contest...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    edited July 2016
    Stick your your guns Jezza! Don't be intimidated!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    edited July 2016
    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    No headline voting intention from ComRes?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,120
    Pretty depressing for Lab, heading towards utter wipeout. At least Corbyn is seen as more principled....oh
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    It's almost certain we'd never have achieved Brexit without Jezza. His place in history is assured... ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    To be fair not the fairest point in time to make a comparison, given the contrasting press of a man and his membership fighting virtually his entire parliamentary party vs the hagiographically portrayed accession of an anointed semi-monarch who has made loud noises about moving to the left (which are inevitably just rhetoric and won't be borne out by reality). When that reality starts to bite we will see quite a different state of play. As for Jeremy and his supporters, the battle is first to uproot the parts of the right of the party who will always disrupt and destabilise anyone to the left of Blair.
  • david_kendrick1david_kendrick1 Posts: 325
    I went to hear our local MP, Heidi Allen, when she held her second post-referendum meeting this afternoon.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    david_kendrick1 said:

    I went to hear our local MP, Heidi Allen, when she held her second post-referendum meeting this afternoon.

    And????????
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    david_kendrick1 said:

    I went to hear our local MP, Heidi Allen, when she held her second post-referendum meeting this afternoon.

    Any good? We missed the first one a couple of weeks ago (and probably couldn't have got in anyway).

    Was it busy?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Weren't there questions on Smith v Corbyn as well as Eagle (from which to deduce Eagle v Smith)?
  • david_kendrick1david_kendrick1 Posts: 325
    No other MP has even held one meeting.

    Did she have to hear some whinging and whining....

    I thanked her at the end for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her---they had too much moaning to do.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    david_kendrick1 said:

    No other MP has even held one meeting.

    Did she have to hear some whinging and whining....

    I thanked her at the end for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her---they had too much moaning to do.

    What were they whining and whinging about? As South Cambs was heavily remain, I assume it was from people upset by the loss? How were her responses to the whinging?

    I'm seriously impressed by Mrs Allen. To not only have one meeting, but to have a second a couple of weeks later in a bigger location when the first becomes overcrowded.

    Although she might have missed a trick in not livestreaming it. ;)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    david_kendrick1 said:

    I went to hear our local MP, Heidi Allen, when she held her second post-referendum meeting this afternoon.

    Misread her name as Hide the Alien. Is she for immigration?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Iain Martin - Osborne's "firing" was "shameful"

    http://reaction.life/shameful-treatment-george-osborne-heralded-troubling-reshuffle/

    Well it's a point of view...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    edited July 2016
    Don't worry Jeremy, it's only one poll and the numbers will come back to you once the shine wears off the new PM. You're doing a great job, just carry on what you're doing and you'll be fine. :)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Sandpit said:

    Don't worry Jeremy, it's only one poll and the numbers will come back to you once the shine wares off the new PM. You're doing a great job, just carry on what you're doing and you'll be fine. :)

    The public just need more time. They'll see sense...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,096
    Interesting. By the time a deal with the EU has been negotiated, the choice open to us will be either to accept it, or to leave without any special arrangement with the EU at all. Any deal is likely to incorporate some element of free movement, albeit perhaps with some restrictions.

    So the majority are willing to go along with such a deal, and don't want the opportunity to vote on it.

    I wonder how many of those primarily concerned with "control of out borders" were aware of the implications!
  • david_kendrick1david_kendrick1 Posts: 325
    JosiasJessop said:

    david_kendrick1 said:

    No other MP has even held one meeting.

    Did she have to hear some whinging and whining....

    I thanked her at the end for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her---they had too much moaning to do.

    What were they whining and whinging about? As South Cambs was heavily remain, I assume it was from people upset by the loss? How were her responses to the whinging?

    I'm seriously impressed by Mrs Allen. To not only have one meeting, but to have a second a couple of weeks later in a bigger location when the first becomes overcrowded.

    Although she might have missed a trick in not livestreaming it. ;)
    The whining was from Remainers, who thought that the referendum should be re-run. They thought the voters were too stupid to understand what they had done. They all wanted more money from the EU, though none seemed to be aware that all that money comes indirectly from the British taxpayer.

    Heidi was sure-footed and good natured.

    At the end, I went up to her and thanked her for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her----that would have interfered too much with their tedious moaning.


  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Chris said:



    I wonder how many of those primarily concerned with "control of out borders" were aware of the implications!

    I would say the majority don't care about the "implications". That's especially true in Labour's northern heartlands.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    edited July 2016
    david_kendrick1 said:

    No other MP has even held one meeting.

    Did she have to hear some whinging and whining....

    I thanked her at the end for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her---they had too much moaning to do.

    That's very good of her, and well done for saying thanks :+1: Great to see politicians engaging with the communities they represent, most MPs will spend the recess giving up their weekends for a variety of local functions and other constituency work, most of which doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    Good on world stage is impressive considering she's not really done anything related to that yet.

    Nasty will inevitably go up in the long run as part of being PM, understands ordinary people will go down
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Those are really very good numbers for May.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Do we genuinely think that ratings for May before she has even done anything except get a few days of universally fawning praise have any relevance to the real world? Wishful thinking?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,120
    JWisemann said:

    Do we genuinely think that ratings for May before she has even done anything except get a few days of universally fawning praise have any relevance to the real world? Wishful thinking?

    I'd tend to agree if she weren't up against Corbyn.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    No questions on the economy?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I just noticed a serious social crisis going on in the US right now, Pokemon Go:

    https://twitter.com/MrNobre/status/754144048529625088

    I have the suspicion these people are not going to vote (or work) because they will be busy catching pokemon.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,096
    GIN1138 said:


    I would say the majority don't care about the "implications". That's especially true in Labour's northern heartlands.

    I doubt more than a small fraction of those who voted to leave have any idea of what will be involved.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    That's VOTERS.
    The leadership ballot is only for MEMBERS.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Chris said:

    GIN1138 said:


    I would say the majority don't care about the "implications". That's especially true in Labour's northern heartlands.

    I doubt more than a small fraction of those who voted to leave have any idea of what will be involved.
    Agreed.
    I doubt more than a small fraction of those who voted to remain had any idea of what that would have involved, either.

    Our electorate is not as politically savvy as I would wish.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Speedy said:

    I just noticed a serious social crisis going on in the US right now, Pokemon Go:

    https://twitter.com/MrNobre/status/754144048529625088

    I have the suspicion these people are not going to vote (or work) because they will be busy catching pokemon.

    Well it is a Saturday and there is no election on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Disraeli said:

    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    That's VOTERS.
    The leadership ballot is only for MEMBERS.
    The numbers will be even BETTER for Jezza amongst members.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    david_kendrick1 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    david_kendrick1 said:

    No other MP has even held one meeting.

    Did she have to hear some whinging and whining....

    I thanked her at the end for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her---they had too much moaning to do.

    What were they whining and whinging about? As South Cambs was heavily remain, I assume it was from people upset by the loss? How were her responses to the whinging?

    I'm seriously impressed by Mrs Allen. To not only have one meeting, but to have a second a couple of weeks later in a bigger location when the first becomes overcrowded.

    Although she might have missed a trick in not livestreaming it. ;)
    The whining was from Remainers, who thought that the referendum should be re-run. They thought the voters were too stupid to understand what they had done. They all wanted more money from the EU, though none seemed to be aware that all that money comes indirectly from the British taxpayer.

    Heidi was sure-footed and good natured.

    At the end, I went up to her and thanked her for giving up her Saturday afternoon. Nobody else thanked her----that would have interfered too much with their tedious moaning
    Interesting thanks. I wish I could have made it to either - and well done in saying thanks to her.

    Although might your perceptions be somewhat coloured by the fact you're a hardcore leaver? :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,734
    david_kendrick1 said:


    The whining was from Remainers,

    REMOANERS?

    :lol:
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Disraeli said:

    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    That's VOTERS.
    The leadership ballot is only for MEMBERS.
    So Corbyn will do even better than that.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
    In fact, in most of the World, politics can be a lethal profession, China, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, Bangladesh, almost all the Middle East and Africa, Central Asia, Turkey, the West is the exception.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,096
    Disraeli said:


    Agreed.
    I doubt more than a small fraction of those who voted to remain had any idea of what that would have involved, either.

    But at least those who voted remain were voting for the status quo.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    GIN1138 said:

    Iain Martin - Osborne's "firing" was "shameful"

    http://reaction.life/shameful-treatment-george-osborne-heralded-troubling-reshuffle/

    Well it's a point of view...

    Actually I think the article was pretty fair - more about the unnecessary nature of how it was done. She is better than that I hope.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    No VI figures from Comres until further notice whilst they review their methodology .
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,734
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Or Hitler.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,938
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
    In fact, in most of the World, politics can be a lethal profession, China, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, Bangladesh, almost all the Middle East and Africa, Central Asia, Turkey, the West is the exception.
    Though better than it was, Latin America is largely no longer in the grip of dictators for one
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    In real life, there seem to be slightly fewer naked breasts for the politicians though.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Casino_Royale said:

    Those are really very good numbers for May.

    Hi, and thank you for your hard work freeing us from the Kraken monster. Where was u campaigning in again.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited July 2016
    Right - who is going to invsde, depose or otherwise smite who this evening, or can we actually relax and have an early night or a relaxing summer AV discussion for once?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    felix said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Iain Martin - Osborne's "firing" was "shameful"

    http://reaction.life/shameful-treatment-george-osborne-heralded-troubling-reshuffle/

    Well it's a point of view...

    Actually I think the article was pretty fair - more about the unnecessary nature of how it was done. She is better than that I hope.
    It would be interesting to know what was actually said. I imagine it was somewhat more cordial than suggested by Iain Martin, maybe he was offered another role but didn't want anything that wasn't one of the Great Offices. After his comments in the buildup to the referendum his position as CoE was untenable given the vote, even he would have understood that.

    Whoever can write the book on 2016 in British politics will make a fortune.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.

    What they are effectively saying is that becoming a serial rebel against your own party is an acceptable recourse if you lose your government job.

    I somehow doubt that's the game the Cameroon modernisers will play. Sniping, leaking, and "urgent constituency business" is far more likely.
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    Thing is, Labour have already *got* the Labour voters. (Or they should have!)

    The wider appeal they need to win a GE is to everyone else.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,938
    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    The Labour vote is under AV not FPTP so add the 22% who back Eagle to the 25% who back Smith and Smith beats Corbyn 47% to 44%. Under FPTP Corbyn would win comfortably, under AV or STV Smith has an outside chance and is excellent value
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    GIN1138 said:

    Stick your your guns Jezza! Don't be intimidated!

    "It's just a flesh wound"
    Hat tip Dave
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Pulpstar said:

    Disraeli said:

    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    That's VOTERS.
    The leadership ballot is only for MEMBERS.
    The numbers will be even BETTER for Jezza amongst members.
    Source? :smile:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
    In fact, in most of the World, politics can be a lethal profession, China, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, Bangladesh, almost all the Middle East and Africa, Central Asia, Turkey, the West is the exception.
    It was here too up until around about the glorious revolution.

    I wouldn't have gone near Henry VIII's court with a bargepole.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    felix said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Iain Martin - Osborne's "firing" was "shameful"

    http://reaction.life/shameful-treatment-george-osborne-heralded-troubling-reshuffle/

    Well it's a point of view...

    Actually I think the article was pretty fair - more about the unnecessary nature of how it was done. She is better than that I hope.
    I'm beginning to think Theresa May's "ruthless" start is no accident.

    It probably has it's own purposes in putting her firmly in control, but it will also have made a big impression on the continent. And elsewhere.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    Disraeli said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Disraeli said:

    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    That's VOTERS.
    The leadership ballot is only for MEMBERS.
    The numbers will be even BETTER for Jezza amongst members.
    Source? :smile:
    Just a hunch ;)
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FPT

    "Speedy said:
    There is more, Erdogan is now threatening war on those who harbor Gulen (the USA):"


    Which means the USA cannot extradite. If these guys are willing to declare war on anyone providing sanctuary his chances of survival if he is returned is zero. The USA won't like being threatened either.

    Quite a stand off here developing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    Casino_Royale said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
    In fact, in most of the World, politics can be a lethal profession, China, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, Bangladesh, almost all the Middle East and Africa, Central Asia, Turkey, the West is the exception.
    It was here too up until around about the glorious revolution.

    I wouldn't have gone near Henry VIII's court with a bargepole.
    Yo CR welcome back.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Chris said:

    Disraeli said:


    Agreed.
    I doubt more than a small fraction of those who voted to remain had any idea of what that would have involved, either.

    But at least those who voted remain were voting for the status quo.
    They may have thought that they were voting for the status quo - but in fact as we both know, the EU doesn't stand still. The march to ever closer union has never stalled for long.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Casino_Royale said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    In real life, there seem to be slightly fewer naked breasts for the politicians though.
    That you know of...

    :blush:
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.

    I too have been annoyed by this and I am pleased you brought this up. The fixed term parliament act is an excuse that is 'good enough' and she should just get on with the job.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    nunu said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Those are really very good numbers for May.

    Hi, and thank you for your hard work freeing us from the Kraken monster. Where was u campaigning in again.
    Thanks. I didn't really do that much. Just what I could.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    TOPPING said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    Much (perhaps most) of the World's population still lives in that World.
    In fact, in most of the World, politics can be a lethal profession, China, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, Bangladesh, almost all the Middle East and Africa, Central Asia, Turkey, the West is the exception.
    It was here too up until around about the glorious revolution.

    I wouldn't have gone near Henry VIII's court with a bargepole.
    Yo CR welcome back.
    Thank you, Sir :smile:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Charles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    In real life, there seem to be slightly fewer naked breasts for the politicians though.
    That you know of...

    :blush:
    *checks to see if wife is around*

    If what was on offer on Game of Thrones was really the case in real life even Casino might be tempted into politics.

    *minimises screen and changes webpage to something less incriminating*
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
    PLP lose. Corbyn loses. Members lose. We all lose. Brilliant. Well done. Have a cigar.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,734
    Casino_Royale said:

    Charles said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, the people who plotted against Erdogan may well be considered traitors in the way that people who plotted against Nero and Caligula were traitors. It doesn't make Erdogan the good guy.

    Rule #1 about a coup is that if you're going to do it, you have to succeed. Fail and you're dead.
    When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.

    In real life, there seem to be slightly fewer naked breasts for the politicians though.
    That you know of...

    :blush:
    *checks to see if wife is around*

    If what was on offer on Game of Thrones was really the case in real life even Casino might be tempted into politics.

    *minimises screen and changes webpage to something less incriminating*
    "No, the country comes first!" - Liz Kendall, 2015
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
    PLP lose. Corbyn loses. Members lose. We all lose. Brilliant. Well done. Have a cigar.
    Well 2015 Lab VOTERS think we have a better chance with Corbyn.

    You seriously think Eagle or Smith give us a better chance.

    Lab. VOTERS disagree
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
    PLP lose. Corbyn loses. Members lose. We all lose. Brilliant. Well done. Have a cigar.
    Well 2015 Lab VOTERS think we have a better chance with Corbyn.

    You seriously think Eagle or Smith give us a better chance.

    Lab. VOTERS disagree Plus I domt like cigars
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    Barkworth is claiming tonight that leaving the EU and joining EFTA/EEA will "give us more influence over the shaping of single market rules than we have as members of the EU."

    Can anyone elaborate.

    Incidentally he also confirms what Robert Smithson said a while back "Furthermore, under Article 112 of the EEA agreement, we could unilaterally insist on limited opt-outs from the EU’s “Four Freedoms”, including control of immigration, exercising a legal right which has already been used a dozen times."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.

    It will be interesting to watch how key votes go in the coming months. A handful of rebels finding something urgent in their constituency shouldn't make too much of a difference, especially given the main Opposition are tearing themselves apart.

    One imagines there will be a Queen's Speech in the autumn after Cameron brought forward almost nothing but the referendum last time around. Legislation not related to the EU will be whipped and most likely supported pretty much unanimously by the Tories anyway.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Sandpit said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.

    It will be interesting to watch how key votes go in the coming months. A handful of rebels finding something urgent in their constituency shouldn't make too much of a difference, especially given the main Opposition are tearing themselves apart.

    One imagines there will be a Queen's Speech in the autumn after Cameron brought forward almost nothing but the referendum last time around. Legislation not related to the EU will be whipped and most likely supported pretty much unanimously by the Tories anyway.
    Is it correct to say historically most Tory rebels have been right-wing eccentric/eurosceptics? If so she may have an easier time than most of the media are expecting.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,325
    Corbyn is failing to win over his contemporaries. Those who grew up aware of his stunts don't seem to be in a hurry to back him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/754397516477628416
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
    PLP lose. Corbyn loses. Members lose. We all lose. Brilliant. Well done. Have a cigar.
    Well 2015 Lab VOTERS think we have a better chance with Corbyn.

    You seriously think Eagle or Smith give us a better chance.

    Lab. VOTERS disagree
    You can't go into an election with a leader that does not have support of his MPs. The campaign will be a bloodbath and if you did miraculously win power you would not have a majority in the commons.

    What next? Deselect the entire PLP? Again bloodbath. And I suspect if that happened, Momentum would devise a way not to work with the new crop.

    This is an abject disaster. The reasons behind it are well known. No point talking about it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    On topic, even allowing for the fact these figures are the apotheosis of Theresa May's honeymoon, these are horrific numbers for Corbyn and Labour.

    @MSmithsonPB: By 40% to 36% LAB GE2015 voters tell ComRes that May would make a better PM than Corbyn.

    AND AND Mrs May is beating Jez by nearly 10 to 1 with over 65s

    77% of those aged 65+ think that Theresa May would make a better PM, compared to 8% who said the same for Corbyn
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    edited July 2016
    Pauly said:

    Sandpit said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    I wish people would stop banging on about the tories only having 12.

    As well as the tories there are 4 sinn fein who do not sit, so majority up to 16.

    Then there are 8 DUP and 1 UKIP who will support most Tory measures especially Brexit, so thats up to 34.

    There are also two UUP MPs who are effectively Tories - 38.

    Add in a slew of pro Brexit Labour MPs like Mann, Stuart, Hoey, Field et al and you are up to a majority of 70+.

    (in contrast the tory majority in 1979 was 43)

    So, if Soubry, Clarke and even Gideon and co vote against the government, it will matter not a whit.

    Those saying that May will go for an early election would also do well to ponder those figures above.

    It will be interesting to watch how key votes go in the coming months. A handful of rebels finding something urgent in their constituency shouldn't make too much of a difference, especially given the main Opposition are tearing themselves apart.

    One imagines there will be a Queen's Speech in the autumn after Cameron brought forward almost nothing but the referendum last time around. Legislation not related to the EU will be whipped and most likely supported pretty much unanimously by the Tories anyway.
    Is it correct to say historically most Tory rebels have been right-wing eccentric/eurosceptics? If so she may have an easier time than most of the media are expecting.
    Yes, it's pretty much correct that the rebels have historically been from the right of the party. Today's rebels will be Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry, the former is a decent man with a blind spot who can probably be paired off for key EU-related votes, the latter can go and join the Lib Dems for how much she's cared about in the party. Maybe Nick Palmer could make a comeback, I'd vote for him in Broxsowe right now over sourpuss Soubry.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    Barkworth is claiming tonight that leaving the EU and joining EFTA/EEA will "give us more influence over the shaping of single market rules than we have as members of the EU."

    Can anyone elaborate.

    Incidentally he also confirms what Robert Smithson said a while back "Furthermore, under Article 112 of the EEA agreement, we could unilaterally insist on limited opt-outs from the EU’s “Four Freedoms”, including control of immigration, exercising a legal right which has already been used a dozen times."

    My view is that people playing barrack room lawyer don't understand the game. The EU is not going to allow membership of the Single Market without Freedom of Movement. If they do, they might as well pack up.

    We will be able to see how Switzerland get on with their upcoming EU negotiations to get a flavour of what will be in store.

    Of course, there is always the possibility of Euro-fudge. Germany is currently undergoing a long dark teatime of the soul on FoM. However, Davis is irritating the living fuck out of me by peddling this 'tariff-free access to SIngle Market, no problemo mate' line.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,730
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    That's a 2-1 advantage for Corbyn among Labour voters compared with his leadership rivals.
    He is comfortably going to beat them in the leadership ballot.
    The Labour vote is under AV not FPTP so add the 22% who back Eagle to the 25% who back Smith and Smith beats Corbyn 47% to 44%. Under FPTP Corbyn would win comfortably, under AV or STV Smith has an outside chance and is excellent value
    I thought the poll offered people straight choices? In which case I would expect a lot of the Eagle people are the same people as the Smith people, so adding the two figures together makes no sense.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic, even allowing for the fact these figures are the apotheosis of Theresa May's honeymoon, these are horrific numbers for Corbyn and Labour.

    @MSmithsonPB: By 40% to 36% LAB GE2015 voters tell ComRes that May would make a better PM than Corbyn.

    AND AND Mrs May is beating Jez by nearly 10 to 1 with over 65s

    77% of those aged 65+ think that Theresa May would make a better PM, compared to 8% who said the same for Corbyn

    Do you know, I'm beginning to suspect that Mr Corbyn is a bit crap. I don't know why. Possibly I'm psychic.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,097
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/754397516477628416

    Not necessarily, they could be really poor books
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/754397516477628416

    Ahem, I am 100% street. The word is 'gg'. 'gg wp' is also acceptable.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Truly horrible timeline:

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/754387735427870720
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    edited July 2016
    I see this poll busts another false narrative that was pushed in some quarters of this nationwide regret & mass desire for a second referendum / chance to change our mind.

    This polling tallies with my personal experience working in a heavily remain dominated sector that think it is the wrong outcome but are just getting on with things with the assumption it is going to happen in the next few years.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    John_M said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic, even allowing for the fact these figures are the apotheosis of Theresa May's honeymoon, these are horrific numbers for Corbyn and Labour.

    @MSmithsonPB: By 40% to 36% LAB GE2015 voters tell ComRes that May would make a better PM than Corbyn.

    AND AND Mrs May is beating Jez by nearly 10 to 1 with over 65s

    77% of those aged 65+ think that Theresa May would make a better PM, compared to 8% who said the same for Corbyn

    Do you know, I'm beginning to suspect that Mr Corbyn is a bit crap. I don't know why. Possibly I'm psychic.
    Corbyn knows he is crap. He is but John the baptist. He will stay until he is confident that someone from the hard left with charisma and ability can safely succeed him and then bide his time until the Tory party is exhausted from office and/or events discredit them - then will come the Glorious Day when Britain embraces true socialism, and heaven help us if that day arrives.

    These guys are long term planners.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    edited July 2016
    Casino_Royale said:

    Truly horrible timeline:

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/754387735427870720

    Sadly the media narrative is following exactly the same pattern as all the previous attacks. Nothing changes other than the speed of the cycle. We have had the not a proper Muslim yesterday & now today Articles appearing banging on about fear of backlash .
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    I can't help thinking that the only way to understand what is going on in France is to view it as a sequel of The Algerian War.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Jonathan said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Eagle 22%

    Or Amongst Lab VOTERS - Who would have more chance of being PM Jezza 44% Smith 25%


    Thought actual Lab voters were 100% PLP 0% Jezza!!

    Good figures for Smith given current recognition rel Jezza. A sitting leader should be in the 80s or 90s with their own supporters.
    LOL VOTERS are all against Jezza according to PLP

    All 9 million
    There is nothing LOL about what is happening to Labour.
    PLP - We would have gotten away with this if it hadn't been for them Pesky Lab. members/ Lab. voters
    PLP lose. Corbyn loses. Members lose. We all lose. Brilliant. Well done. Have a cigar.
    Well 2015 Lab VOTERS think we have a better chance with Corbyn.

    You seriously think Eagle or Smith give us a better chance.

    Lab. VOTERS disagree
    You can't go into an election with a leader that does not have support of his MPs. The campaign will be a bloodbath and if you did miraculously win power you would not have a majority in the commons.

    What next? Deselect the entire PLP? Again bloodbath. And I suspect if that happened, Momentum would devise a way not to work with the new crop.

    This is an abject disaster. The reasons behind it are well known. No point talking about it.
    Labour are suicidal. They make cartoon lemmings seem sensible.


    Jezz is crap and will never be anything close to prime minister.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see this poll busts another false narrative that was pushed in some quarters of this nationwide regret & mass desire for a second referendum / chance to change our mind.

    This polling tallies with my personal experience working in a heavily remain dominated sector that think it is the wrong outcome but are just getting on with things with the assumption it is going to happen in the next few years.

    I think a lot of Remainers are putting their faith in the good old British Establishment to set its wheels in motion and ensure that in reality very little actually changes.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JWisemann said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see this poll busts another false narrative that was pushed in some quarters of this nationwide regret & mass desire for a second referendum / chance to change our mind.

    This polling tallies with my personal experience working in a heavily remain dominated sector that think it is the wrong outcome but are just getting on with things with the assumption it is going to happen in the next few years.

    I think a lot of Remainers are putting their faith in the good old British Establishment to set its wheels in motion and ensure that in reality very little actually changes.
    It does look that way. At best we are in the phoney war, but quite possibly the wait for Brexit will be the wait for Godot.
This discussion has been closed.

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