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In her first words on learning that she is the new Tory leader and will be PM in 48 hours, Mrs May said: “We need to unite our country and … we need a strong, new positive vision for the future of our country – a vision of a country that works not for the privileged few, but that works for every one of us.”
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Interesting piece Miss Cyclefee, and congrats to your soon too0
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Second. A very good post, Mrs Cyclefree. Are you sure you are not a Liberal Democrat?
I particularly liked your paragraph about London and the bankers. A lot of people who post on PB seem to be concerned only with the effect that the Referendum result will have on the financial sector.0 -
Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.0
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"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony..."
by You Know Who.0 -
Interesting piece - and jolly well done to your son!
If only Andrea Leadsom were Tory leader.....0 -
Understand Lab NEC considering only allowing Members at Feb 2016 a vote on leadership.0
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May has been playing a very long game if she is really a social democrat waiting to unleash severe fairness on society.0
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Which Powell ?rottenborough said:Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.
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Why would anyone want to unite the country? That's a terrible idea. Political moncultures excist only during brutal, repressive regimes or times of great existential threat.
The decline of pluralism is a sign that something has gone seriously awry with your body politic.0 -
Straws and Clutchingrottenborough said:Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.
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Grayling was her campaign manager. Wasn't he once in the SDP?SandyRentool said:May has been playing a very long game if she is really a social democrat waiting to unleash severe fairness on society.
Sleepers?0 -
[FPT] interesting take on things:
https://excelpope.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/vested-interest/
Echoes much of what is said atl...0 -
Probably not Enoch.surbiton said:
Which Powell ?rottenborough said:Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.
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Cracking article, Mrs Free. Hits the spot completely. The old party system has failed, the left/right spectrum belongs in the past too. A reset is needed.
Is Mrs May capable of delivering? Does she even have a vision of what needs to be done? I doubt it, but hope I am wrong.0 -
The reference to Millom took me back 50 years.My family left when the Ironworks closed down in the early 60's. I have returned on quite a few occasions. Main employment is either 25 miles south, Barrow Shipyard or 25 miles north Winscale/ Sellafield. There is now a prison a few miles away which provides some employment, but the people I know regularly travel a distance to work. This is staunch Labour but they will have voted Leave with a passion. There are no privileged few.0
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Lucy.logical_song said:
Probably not Enoch.surbiton said:
Which Powell ?rottenborough said:Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.
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"I'm a Tory, I'm going to govern like a Tory. If you don't like it, suck it losers" is a less inspiring speech.0
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Probably more likely that just helping to add pressure for Corbyn to negotiate a way out.bigjohnowls said:
Straws and Clutchingrottenborough said:Powell tells BBC that Corbyn will lose anyway if on the ballot.
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Miss Cyclefree.
A great article and something that strikes a chord with me. Although a confirmed Tory (I believe they are best set to govern the country) I do tend to the more gentle side of politics and some left wing ideas are not necessarily wrong.0 -
"Corbyn has an idea about what Labour should be and think."
Disagree, it is clear what Corbyn is against, not what he is for. It's one of the key areas where he has disappointed.0 -
A typically fair and balanced view that we've come to know and respect from Ms Cyclefree.
This One Nation Tory likes to play games with his 'progressive' friends. After pushing, lightly, goading, softly, it is amazing how many of my friends are anti: debt forgiveness of any kind (because they don't ever expect to default on a debt), any fee paying element for those able to afford it using NHS and not having health insurance (because they've grown up not having to factor much degree of self reliance in to their lives) or indeed any fee paying element to uni education (they're generally anti tutus ion fees) despite recognising the private good inherent to further education.
It is amazing how many young adults of my generation cite the identity politics of Labour, but are economically very right wing, pro universal benefits (they tend to get shirty when I suggest that universality discriminates and almost certainly hinders better provision and the social mobility of the poor) and socially naive about the effects of globalisation. The last few weeks has also proved most of them to be anti-democratic - as soon as a major vote went against their interests there was much questioning of why we should let people decide such an important issue. Anyone who thinks the generations after the baby boomers will be easier to govern will have a tremendously nasty shock.0 -
FPT: Mr. 64, cheers.
On-topic: good piece, Miss Cyclefree.0 -
Above all, the fruits of the economy need to be much more fairly shared – not (or not just) in the form of handouts to the poorer areas but in terms of proper and visible investment in infrastructure and services and people and housing, in people being given control over what happens where they live. It means increased taxation of the better off.
A good article, but I disagree with the above paragraph. I think there's more than enough tax being collected. The problem is with how the money is spent and on what.
Infrastructure takes a poor back seat at the moment.
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How will leaving the EU help the people of Millom?scoop said:The reference to Millom took me back 50 years.My family left when the Ironworks closed down in the early 60's. I have returned on quite a few occasions. Main employment is either 25 miles south, Barrow Shipyard or 25 miles north Winscale/ Sellafield. There is now a prison a few miles away which provides some employment, but the people I know regularly travel a distance to work. This is staunch Labour but they will have voted Leave with a passion. There are no privileged few.
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I might be biased because I've always quite liked her, but I do think she might be genuine. For all her flaws, she seems a bit more honest about what she believes in, and has a bit more integrity than most politicians.SandyRentool said:May has been playing a very long game if she is really a social democrat waiting to unleash severe fairness on society.
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FPT
There is an ice-pick sticking out of their skull?MTimT said:
Out of interest, is there a viable pretext for removing NEC members against their will and before their time is up?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope. Might well end up in the courts.DanSmith said:
They aren't confident of winning the NEC vote are they.TheScreamingEagles said:@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
I hope Justice Sweeney is the judge.
Corbyn must hope his opponents don't hire Lord Grabiner.
Improper head-gear for attending the meeting?0 -
Is the Lab leadership on Sky News or some such ?
A Guardian liveblog to follow ?
A reliable journalist on Twitter that is not engaged in wishful thinking ?0 -
She comes up with some meaningless guff. e.g.Danny565 said:
I might be biased because I've always quite liked her, but I do think she might be genuine. For all her flaws, she seems a bit more honest about what she believes in, and has a bit more integrity than most politicians.SandyRentool said:May has been playing a very long game if she is really a social democrat waiting to unleash severe fairness on society.
She is against big govt. She is against small govt. She is for good govt.
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If Corbyn loses the NEC vote, I assume that all deals will be off.
I don't see why the PLP should "allow" a left candidate on the ballot who cannot assemble enough true supporters to get nominated. That's the mistake the PLP made the first time around.
That could be the basis of a deal before the NEC vote, but not afterwards. If you fight instead of doing a deal, you don't get the deal after you've lost the fight.0 -
It probably won't but being in has not done them any favours.rottenborough said:
How will leaving the EU help the people of Millom?scoop said:The reference to Millom took me back 50 years.My family left when the Ironworks closed down in the early 60's. I have returned on quite a few occasions. Main employment is either 25 miles south, Barrow Shipyard or 25 miles north Winscale/ Sellafield. There is now a prison a few miles away which provides some employment, but the people I know regularly travel a distance to work. This is staunch Labour but they will have voted Leave with a passion. There are no privileged few.
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Osborne sort of tried this in the Budget this year. How did that work again?grabcocque said:"I'm a Tory, I'm going to govern like a Tory. If you don't like it, suck it losers" is a less inspiring speech.
And Fpt: Thanks Mr Morris - I am this minute speeding to Cambridge, from KC, to view an auction of rare books. Treasure hunting (also known as book dealing) feels like the best job in the world right now!0 -
George Eaton @georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
12 trade union delegates expected to take joint stance.0 -
The block vote lives!bigjohnowls said:George Eaton @georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
12 trade union delegates expected to take joint stance.0 -
That includes Lillis, who is chair and has casting.bigjohnowls said:George Eaton @georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
12 trade union delegates expected to take joint stance.0 -
The won't. The NEC will bottle it – Corbyn will get a free pass on to the ballot and that will be the end of the party as we know it.JenS said:If Corbyn loses the NEC vote, I assume that all deals will be off.
I don't see why the PLP should "allow" a left candidate on the ballot who cannot assemble enough true supporters to get nominated. That's the mistake the PLP made the first time around.
That could be the basis of a deal before the NEC vote, but not afterwards. If you fight instead of doing a deal, you don't get the deal after you've lost the fight.0 -
It's interesting how, on early indications, May is the polar opposite of Cameron and Osborne in political outlooks.Blue_rog said:Miss Cyclefree.
A great article and something that strikes a chord with me. Although a confirmed Tory (I believe they are best set to govern the country) I do tend to the more gentle side of politics and some left wing ideas are not necessarily wrong.
Where Cam & Osborne were culturally liberal and economically "dry" as ultra-Thatcherites, May is more of a traditional conservative on things like immigration and national security (but frankly even I'm a bit of a conservative on those issues) while at the same time having a bit more of a heart towards the poor and a less obsequious attitude to the fat cats.0 -
This is a day long to be remembered. It has seen the end ofJobabob said:
The won't. The NEC will bottle it – Corbyn will get a free pass on to the ballot and that will be the end of the party as we know it.JenS said:If Corbyn loses the NEC vote, I assume that all deals will be off.
I don't see why the PLP should "allow" a left candidate on the ballot who cannot assemble enough true supporters to get nominated. That's the mistake the PLP made the first time around.
That could be the basis of a deal before the NEC vote, but not afterwards. If you fight instead of doing a deal, you don't get the deal after you've lost the fight.KenobiCameron, and will soon see the end ofThe RebellionThe Labour Party.0 -
He assembled enough supporters (true or clinically insane) to get nominated and go on to win last year.JenS said:If Corbyn loses the NEC vote, I assume that all deals will be off.
I don't see why the PLP should "allow" a left candidate on the ballot who cannot assemble enough true supporters to get nominated. That's the mistake the PLP made the first time around.
That could be the basis of a deal before the NEC vote, but not afterwards. If you fight instead of doing a deal, you don't get the deal after you've lost the fight.
He doesn't have to do that again. It's open to challengers now to get nominated and defeat him.0 -
I understand Dan Hodges has the insider knowledge!!Pulpstar said:Is the Lab leadership on Sky News or some such ?
A Guardian liveblog to follow ?
A reliable journalist on Twitter that is not engaged in wishful thinking ?0 -
Mr. Mortimer, I have very few even slightly old books (no shelf space, in any case) but I've got a couple. A 1922 Jungle Book is quite nice, although the swastika on the front looks a bit dodgy these days.0
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Interestingly, two of the junior Cyclefrees joined the Lib Dems in the last fortnight and I voted for them last year. There was a very good local LD candidate in my constituency.PClipp said:Second. A very good post, Mrs Cyclefree. Are you sure you are not a Liberal Democrat?
I particularly liked your paragraph about London and the bankers. A lot of people who post on PB seem to be concerned only with the effect that the Referendum result will have on the financial sector.
I work in the financial sector but I was struck by what the Northern bit of my family and all our friends in Millom and roundabout said during the referendum. They were pretty much all for Leave, thought it would win and felt that London needed a reality check. And indeed when I go there it makes me realise that what gets taken for granted in London is really not at all normal in the rest of the country. It is not enough for London to say that we pay for everything: behaving like Lady Bountiful is not really tenable long-term.
In a way I think that this referendum has been more divisive - or brought out the divisions more clearly - precisely because it was not a GE and because every vote counted. It has also made me rethink my approach to the voting system. We should make every vote count. We may not like the result but better that than sullen acquiescence/indifference for years and then - boom - a shock.
Perhaps TSE could give us his views?
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Very good piece. It underlies a lot of the thinking that had me vote leave. The haves gained from EU membership but at the cost of the have nots. The frankly lazy thinking which says ah but Brexit will result in a reduction in our GDP without thinking at all about how that supposed gain would have been shared and who would have paid the price is why remain lost.
They are loathe to accept this so remainers like to claim people voted the way they did because they were lied to. We know when politicians lie: it is when they open their mouths. All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
The so called debate didn't really focus on the problems most of our fellow citizens face but it came a lot closer than the general election did. Apparently Cameron was wanting to launch a life chances program next month. I hope this does not get lost. If anyone is going to do something for the poor and disadvantaged of this country it is going to be the Tories. The only poor Corbyn cares about do not live in this country and mainly live in his socialist fantasies.
I am not hopeful about May leading such a charge. She has shown no imagination to date. But maybe I will be surprised for once. That would be nice.0 -
He has blocked me on tw@tter thoughbigjohnowls said:
I understand Dan Hodges has the insider knowledge!!Pulpstar said:Is the Lab leadership on Sky News or some such ?
A Guardian liveblog to follow ?
A reliable journalist on Twitter that is not engaged in wishful thinking ?0 -
If true, that can only be pro-Corbyn after Big Len's comments this morning.bigjohnowls said:George Eaton @georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
12 trade union delegates expected to take joint stance.0 -
If it is against, Tom Watson will go down as the most remarkable back stabbing plotter in the whole history of politics.david_herdson said:
If true, that can only be pro-Corbyn after Big Len's comments this morning.bigjohnowls said:George Eaton @georgeeaton 3m3 minutes ago
12 trade union delegates expected to take joint stance.0 -
On topic, the Tories have a long and honourable tradition of stealing the left's clothes and wearing them better, from Peel and Disraeli through to the Butlerite 1950s and on to Cameron and May today.0
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Oh no.Pulpstar said:
He has blocked me on tw@tter thoughbigjohnowls said:
I understand Dan Hodges has the insider knowledge!!Pulpstar said:Is the Lab leadership on Sky News or some such ?
A Guardian liveblog to follow ?
A reliable journalist on Twitter that is not engaged in wishful thinking ?
@Labourinsider seems to say things that come to pass.
Although they are predicting an 17 -14 outcome with 2 absentees.
I presume there will only be 10 union reps and one of the Morning Stars Corbyn definites has switvhed sides.
FWIW i reckon 19-12 but hey EICIPM0 -
I have family about 2 miles away and know the place well. We have been going there for the last 30 years and my husband's family have been there/Silecroft since the end of the war. The area is beautiful but not a part of the Lakes many know well and it's often forgotten that parts of it are not doing very well. There is a very different perspective there. The decline in regional politicians with a real base and hinterland in their regions is one reason, I think, that so much of the political class is out of touch. Ken Clarke is probably one of the last of that type of politician, ironically enough.scoop said:The reference to Millom took me back 50 years.My family left when the Ironworks closed down in the early 60's. I have returned on quite a few occasions. Main employment is either 25 miles south, Barrow Shipyard or 25 miles north Winscale/ Sellafield. There is now a prison a few miles away which provides some employment, but the people I know regularly travel a distance to work. This is staunch Labour but they will have voted Leave with a passion. There are no privileged few.
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DavidL said:
Very good piece. It underlies a lot of the thinking that had me vote leave. The haves gained from EU membership but at the cost of the have nots. The frankly lazy thinking which says ah but Brexit will result in a reduction in our GDP without thinking at all about how that supposed gain would have been shared and who would have paid the price is why remain lost.
They are loathe to accept this so remainers like to claim people voted the way they did because they were lied to. We know when politicians lie: it is when they open their mouths. All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
The so called debate didn't really focus on the problems most of our fellow citizens face but it came a lot closer than the general election did. Apparently Cameron was wanting to launch a life chances program next month. I hope this does not get lost. If anyone is going to do something for the poor and disadvantaged of this country it is going to be the Tories. The only poor Corbyn cares about do not live in this country and mainly live in his socialist fantasies.
I am not hopeful about May leading such a charge. She has shown no imagination to date. But maybe I will be surprised for once. That would be nice.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, thou art hyperbole incarnate!0
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The funny thing is that the Tories think they are clever when they do that.david_herdson said:On topic, the Tories have a long and honourable tradition of stealing the left's clothes and wearing them better, from Peel and Disraeli through to the Butlerite 1950s and on to Cameron and May today.
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I agree, and echo Ms Cyclefree about the voting system. As would seem to be the catalyst for all electoral reforms, the current system is now indefensible and the clamour for change now so apparent that it should no longer be ignored. I've never been pro PR. The referendum has made me so.DavidL said:Very good piece. It underlies a lot of the thinking that had me vote leave. The haves gained from EU membership but at the cost of the have nots. The frankly lazy thinking which says ah but Brexit will result in a reduction in our GDP without thinking at all about how that supposed gain would have been shared and who would have paid the price is why remain lost.
They are loathe to accept this so remainers like to claim people voted the way they did because they were lied to. We know when politicians lie: it is when they open their mouths. All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
The so called debate didn't really focus on the problems most of our fellow citizens face but it came a lot closer than the general election did. Apparently Cameron was wanting to launch a life chances program next month. I hope this does not get lost. If anyone is going to do something for the poor and disadvantaged of this country it is going to be the Tories. The only poor Corbyn cares about do not live in this country and mainly live in his socialist fantasies.
I am not hopeful about May leading such a charge. She has shown no imagination to date. But maybe I will be surprised for once. That would be nice.
Not AV though; strikes me as a Cambridge graduate conspiracy....0 -
Congrats to Cyclefree and her son.
And a get well soon to Mr Meeks' partner.0 -
Surely there's a chance that in a new vote of members, Corbyn won't actually win this time round.
Won't there be some September 2015 Corbyn supporters who have seen how hopeless he is who might change horses?
More importantly, does my £3 cover me for an election about to start in 2016 or do I have to subscribe again? :-)0 -
Mr. Owls, 17-14 in favour of whom?0
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Those 1920s Kiplings are charming - they did a whole series of them in both maroon and blue cooth boards, and maroon leather too. Hardy was issued in the same format. Can't quite remember - but guessing from memory that they were issued by Macmillan?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mortimer, I have very few even slightly old books (no shelf space, in any case) but I've got a couple. A 1922 Jungle Book is quite nice, although the swastika on the front looks a bit dodgy these days.
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Thank you Cycle Free. Yes the focus needs to be on the have nots and how to improve the life for most of them. They need to have less competition for unskilled jobs, more choice of housing and less pressure on other services such as the NHS which they wish to access. With that has to be a shift away from rights to responsibilities. The welfare support that we each should have a right to must be linked to our responsibility to contribute. A contribution based system.0
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I've never been so excited about a Labour party internal vote as this one.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, thou art hyperbole incarnate!
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tHERE IS TALK THAT fEB 16 CUT OFF BEING USEDBob__Sykes said:Surely there's a chance that in a new vote of members, Corbyn won't actually win this time round.
Won't there be some September 2015 Corbyn supporters who have seen how hopeless he is who might change horses?
More importantly, does my £3 cover me for an election about to start in 2016 or do I have to subscribe again? :-)
sorry CAPLOCK0 -
I was going to vote LEAVE before the campaign even started. I decided that I would NOT watch any of the TV debates or QTs during the campaign itself.DavidL said:All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
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But it looks as if, possibly, it may be the Tories who will be in the position to reset how collectively we share the benefits and costs of globalisation.
I didn't catch the speech but did May also talk about her plan to have the word "gullible" taken out of the English dictionary?0 -
jEZZAMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, 17-14 in favour of whom?
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Another great piece from Cyclefree.
I wll probably be abused for asking this, but the political conversation needs to involve everyone; not just the voters in marginal seats.
Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.
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Corbyn arrives at the Sanhedrin NEC....0
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No, they think they are right when they do it.Jonathan said:
The funny thing is that the Tories think they are clever when they do that.david_herdson said:On topic, the Tories have a long and honourable tradition of stealing the left's clothes and wearing them better, from Peel and Disraeli through to the Butlerite 1950s and on to Cameron and May today.
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Why are free blogs writing articles that are so much more coherent and insightful than broadsheet newspapers? Outstanding analysis!0
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Though, perhaps, more truthful.grabcocque said:"I'm a Tory, I'm going to govern like a Tory. If you don't like it, suck it losers" is a less inspiring speech.
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I barely watched any of those, the stuff that persuaded me to back remain came entirely outside the main campaign. And since the vote I have gone from a marginal remainer through to the full "Lib Dem"..Sunil_Prasannan said:
I was going to vote LEAVE before the campaign even started. I decided that I would NOT watch any of the TV debates or QTs during the campaign itself.DavidL said:All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
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Mr. Mortimer, it's a maroon [well, I would've said red
] Macmillan. It's in relatively good condition (bit frayed at the top of the spine but that's about it). Got an old-ish Treasure Island, but that's tattier than a hobo in a skip.
Mr. Pulpstar, one should hope not.0 -
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Mr. Owls, cheers.
Mr. Joel, not to mention the exciting Second Punic War comments and terrible F1 tips
[On that, I've more or less done the mid-season review. Should be up before the weekend].0 -
Weren't you flirting with voting UKIP in 2015?Pulpstar said:
I barely watched any of those, the stuff that persuaded me to back remain came entirely outside the main campaign. And since the vote I have gone from a marginal remainer through to the full "Lib Dem"..Sunil_Prasannan said:
I was going to vote LEAVE before the campaign even started. I decided that I would NOT watch any of the TV debates or QTs during the campaign itself.DavidL said:All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
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Don´t you think Tim Farron could be another one?Cyclefree said:
I have family about 2 miles away and know the place well. We have been going there for the last 30 years and my husband's family have been there/Silecroft since the end of the war. The area is beautiful but not a part of the Lakes many know well and it's often forgotten that parts of it are not doing very well. There is a very different perspective there. The decline in regional politicians with a real base and hinterland in their regions is one reason, I think, that so much of the political class is out of touch. Ken Clarke is probably one of the last of that type of politician, ironically enough.scoop said:The reference to Millom took me back 50 years.My family left when the Ironworks closed down in the early 60's. I have returned on quite a few occasions. Main employment is either 25 miles south, Barrow Shipyard or 25 miles north Winscale/ Sellafield. There is now a prison a few miles away which provides some employment, but the people I know regularly travel a distance to work. This is staunch Labour but they will have voted Leave with a passion. There are no privileged few.
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Listening to the wall to wall adoration of mother Theresa in the media one might be forgiven for forgetting that she has been at the very heart of this government that after six years in power has failed in nearly all of its economic and social objectives and has managed to alienate the political classes in huge swathes of the UK.0
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The big problem is that in the UK we have corporate subsidies and a welfare system which discourages people from working. We must reform the benefits and tax credits system in the country. We can then spend the money on improving the life chances of young people and those left behind by globalisation. Better education, training and retraining. All of this costs a huge amount of money but we're spending £29bn on in working benefits and £20bn on housing benefits per year. A disproportionately large amount of this money goes to EU migrants. Take the draw of in working and housing benefits away and unskilled migration falls while wages increase. UK companies have survived on low skilled migrants who are subsidised by government largesse. Remove the largesse and the companies will adapt.
As always, we must look to a supply side solution and they are out there. We just need a PM with the cojones to do it.0 -
Yes to AV!!Alasdair said:Another great piece from Cyclefree.
I wll probably be abused for asking this, but the political conversation need to involve everyone; not just the voters in marginal seats.
Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.
Actually I agree with you but cant see how it ever comes about0 -
I have seen the error of my waysDanny565 said:
Weren't you flirting with voting UKIP in 2015?Pulpstar said:
I barely watched any of those, the stuff that persuaded me to back remain came entirely outside the main campaign. And since the vote I have gone from a marginal remainer through to the full "Lib Dem"..Sunil_Prasannan said:
I was going to vote LEAVE before the campaign even started. I decided that I would NOT watch any of the TV debates or QTs during the campaign itself.DavidL said:All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
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A few tweets saying that 'Senior Labour figures' are hoping to stop Corbyn voting. He gets a vote? Utterly shambolic joke of a leadership process, crafted by the towering political intellect that was Ed Miliband.0
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The mainstream published news media is in its death throes....EdgwareJoel said:Why are free blogs writing articles that are so much more coherent and insightful than broadsheet newspapers? Outstanding analysis!
Anything that drastically alters the way people communicate and publish has a tremendous effect on the media; I don't think they're anywhere near to the nadir yet, or have any decent coping strategies to get there.
Berners Lee et al will stand alongside Gutenberg in the history books.0 -
Except AV isn't a proportional systembigjohnowls said:
Yes to AV!!Alasdair said:Another great piece from Cyclefree.
I wll probably be abused for asking this, but the political conversation need to involve everyone; not just the voters in marginal seats.
Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.
Actually I agree with you but cant see how it ever comes about0 -
The 1.5m who voted in the referendum because they realised their vote counted for once are an unanswerable argument for voting reform. If politics is to be for all the people all the people need to have a meaningful say.bigjohnowls said:
Yes to AV!!Alasdair said:Another great piece from Cyclefree.
I wll probably be abused for asking this, but the political conversation need to involve everyone; not just the voters in marginal seats.
Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.
Actually I agree with you but cant see how it ever comes about0 -
This is the standard rhetoric of all Tories since forever.
What they'll do is what they always do, try to grow the economy by cutting taxes and regulation while trying to get poor people to blame their problems on foreigners.0 -
On a more trivial note, what is with that weird grimace May constantly does when she takes a pause while she's talking? A facial tic that even Gordon Brown would be proud of.0
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Of course he gets a vote, he is on the NEC.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:A few tweets saying that 'Senior Labour figures' are hoping to stop Corbyn voting. He gets a vote? Utterly shambolic joke of a leadership process, crafted by the towering political intellect that was Ed Miliband.
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"unskilled migration falls while wages increase" - possibly... but something we could predict with some certainty will be collapse of the social care sector.MaxPB said:The big problem is that in the UK we have corporate subsidies and a welfare system which discourages people from working. We must reform the benefits and tax credits system in the country. We can then spend the money on improving the life chances of young people and those left behind by globalisation. Better education, training and retraining. All of this costs a huge amount of money but we're spending £29bn on in working benefits and £20bn on housing benefits per year. A disproportionately large amount of this money goes to EU migrants. Take the draw of in working and housing benefits away and unskilled migration falls while wages increase. UK companies have survived on low skilled migrants who are subsidised by government largesse. Remove the largesse and the companies will adapt.
As always, we must look to a supply side solution and they are out there. We just need a PM with the cojones to do it.0 -
Im not sure that you can say every vote counted . You could equally argue that the referendum had the greatest number of votes ever cast which did not count . If I had not voted at all or switched votes it would not only have made no difference to the result but also not have changed the %s of the 2 outcomes .Cyclefree said:PClipp said:Second. A very good post, Mrs Cyclefree. Are you sure you are not a Liberal Democrat?
I particularly liked your paragraph about London and the bankers. A lot of people who post on PB seem to be concerned only with the effect that the Referendum result will have on the financial sector.
In a way I think that this referendum has been more divisive - or brought out the divisions more clearly - precisely because it was not a GE and because every vote counted. It has also made me rethink my approach to the voting system. We should make every vote count. We may not like the result but better that than sullen acquiescence/indifference for years and then - boom - a shock.0 -
I was drinking on Sunday night, in a rural Essex pub, with thje Secretary of the local Labour Party, a retired graduate with an Essex WWC background, who had been, for the first time in his life to the Durham Miners Gala (his wife’s family live thereabouts).Cyclefree said:
Interestingly, two of the junior Cyclefrees joined the Lib Dems in the last fortnight and I voted for them last year. There was a very good local LD candidate in my constituency.PClipp said:Second. A very good post, Mrs Cyclefree. Are you sure you are not a Liberal Democrat?
I particularly liked your paragraph about London and the bankers. A lot of people who post on PB seem to be concerned only with the effect that the Referendum result will have on the financial sector.
I work in the financial sector but I was struck by what the Northern bit of my family and all our friends in Millom and roundabout said during the referendum. They were pretty much all for Leave, thought it would win and felt that London needed a reality check. And indeed when I go there it makes me realise that what gets taken for granted in London is really not at all normal in the rest of the country. It is not enough for London to say that we pay for everything: behaving like Lady Bountiful is not really tenable long-term.
In a way I think that this referendum has been more divisive - or brought out the divisions more clearly - precisely because it was not a GE and because every vote counted. It has also made me rethink my approach to the voting system. We should make every vote count. We may not like the result but better that than sullen acquiescence/indifference for years and then - boom - a shock.
Perhaps TSE could give us his views?
He was very struck by the feelings he encountered; very similar to those described as being those of family in Millom. He had been working hard for Remain before the referendum, but was now strugging to square his own particular intellectual circle. In particular he notd the number of people he met who either were, or had close family members, on zero-hours contracts, or who were otherwise struggling to make ends meet.0 -
Yes, we damn well do. I doubt it will happen, though. It won't be in the interests of the politicians - or at least not those that are in power.Alasdair said:Another great piece from Cyclefree.
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Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.0 -
And this is the standard rallying cry (and usual tosh) of non Tories everywhere. Yet still we're the natural party of government. Democracy eh?edmundintokyo said:This is the standard rhetoric of all Tories since forever.
What they'll do is what they always do, try to grow the economy by cutting taxes and regulation while trying to get poor people to blame their problems on foreigners.
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With £30-40bn in savings available we could increase direct funding and wages for care workers to the living wage. What we're doing right now is subsidising unsustainable business models. If the UK were a company the EU would have collared it under illegal state aid rules.TheKrakenAwakes said:
"unskilled migration falls while wages increase" - possibly... but something we could predict with some certainty will be collapse of the social care sector.MaxPB said:The big problem is that in the UK we have corporate subsidies and a welfare system which discourages people from working. We must reform the benefits and tax credits system in the country. We can then spend the money on improving the life chances of young people and those left behind by globalisation. Better education, training and retraining. All of this costs a huge amount of money but we're spending £29bn on in working benefits and £20bn on housing benefits per year. A disproportionately large amount of this money goes to EU migrants. Take the draw of in working and housing benefits away and unskilled migration falls while wages increase. UK companies have survived on low skilled migrants who are subsidised by government largesse. Remove the largesse and the companies will adapt.
As always, we must look to a supply side solution and they are out there. We just need a PM with the cojones to do it.0 -
Sort of on topic,
http://www.wsj.com/articles/starbucks-to-raise-wages-up-to-15-1468247939
Quite interesting0 -
Many thanks Ms Cyclefree, for this magnum opus – and again, congratulations to your son.0
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Personally I think FPTP+ - an evolution of the FPTP system rather than revolution might be the way ahead. It is working well in Scotland imo, and a party can only get a majority if it is overwhemingly popular in all areas.HurstLlama said:
Yes, we damn well do. I doubt it will happen, though. It won't be in the interests of the politicians - or at least not those that are in power.Alasdair said:Another great piece from Cyclefree.
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Do we need a form of PR so that the opinions of the inhabitants of the rotten boroughs count? I rather think we do.0 -
You went full Lib Dem? Never go full Lib Dem...Pulpstar said:
I barely watched any of those, the stuff that persuaded me to back remain came entirely outside the main campaign. And since the vote I have gone from a marginal remainer through to the full "Lib Dem"..Sunil_Prasannan said:
I was going to vote LEAVE before the campaign even started. I decided that I would NOT watch any of the TV debates or QTs during the campaign itself.DavidL said:All of the politicians involved in what was laughingly called a debate lied and lied. It is what they do. And then people choose.
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Naught but Maomentum propaganda!Danny565 said:On a more trivial note, what is with that weird grimace May constantly does when she takes a pause while she's talking? A facial tic that even Gordon Brown would be proud of.
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@joncraig: Among Ruth Davidson's jokes in speech to pol corrs: "Labour still fumbling with its flies while Tories enjoying postal coital cigarette."
@tnewtondunn: "We're already enjoying a post-coital cigarette having withdrawn our enormous Johnson", @RuthDavidsonMSP on Tory v Labour leadership races0 -
Can I also thank you for an excellent article. I'm writing a big piece right now - called The Discontented - looking at the reasons why so many people in so many places are unhappy. I'll share it when I'm done. (Yes, with the whole of PB...)Cyclefree said:
Interestingly, two of the junior Cyclefrees joined the Lib Dems in the last fortnight and I voted for them last year. There was a very good local LD candidate in my constituency.PClipp said:Second. A very good post, Mrs Cyclefree. Are you sure you are not a Liberal Democrat?
I particularly liked your paragraph about London and the bankers. A lot of people who post on PB seem to be concerned only with the effect that the Referendum result will have on the financial sector.
I work in the financial sector but I was struck by what the Northern bit of my family and all our friends in Millom and roundabout said during the referendum. They were pretty much all for Leave, thought it would win and felt that London needed a reality check. And indeed when I go there it makes me realise that what gets taken for granted in London is really not at all normal in the rest of the country. It is not enough for London to say that we pay for everything: behaving like Lady Bountiful is not really tenable long-term.
In a way I think that this referendum has been more divisive - or brought out the divisions more clearly - precisely because it was not a GE and because every vote counted. It has also made me rethink my approach to the voting system. We should make every vote count. We may not like the result but better that than sullen acquiescence/indifference for years and then - boom - a shock.
Perhaps TSE could give us his views?
What I find most interesting is that there is only one developed world country (that's not a massive commodity exporter) that's managed to square the circle in the last 25 years, and that's Germany.
East Germany in 1990 was a lot worse place than Millom, with lower skills, failing firms, and rising unemployment. Germany managed to revitalise its East, such that the unemployment rate in Brandenberg or Mecklenberg are below 6%. And they did it without the massively unbalanced economy that we have: there's no massive current account issue, or consumer debt issue, or reliance on housing or the vagaries of finance.
We would do well to learn lessons from the Germans as far as how regional policy should work.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-milibandAramintaMoonbeamQC said:A few tweets saying that 'Senior Labour figures' are hoping to stop Corbyn voting. He gets a vote? Utterly shambolic joke of a leadership process, crafted by the towering political intellect that was Ed Miliband.
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