politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The fight to be next CON leader and PM: The race begins
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Nah. He can do what he wants as long as he doesn't have parliamentary disapproval. Foreign Affairs have always been a crown prerogative as exercised by ministers. In fact, a minister could legally ignore a parliamentary vote as well as that'd also not be binding, although to do so would be inviting a vote of censure at least.rottenborough said:
Not so fast:Andrew said:
He can vote against whatever he likes. It's not going to stop a PM hitting the Article 50 button - Parliament is utterly irrelevant there.rottenborough said:It's his right to vote against it. Parliament is sovereign.
Any prime minister will need parliamentary approval to trigger article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty and initiate the UK’s exit from the European Union, according to a report by constitutional lawyers. [Guardian]0 -
Not sure it should be tomorrow but I would like to see it done very soon. Delaying it just adds to uncertainty. It will also ensure the if it's calling for the decision to be reversed can't win.williamglenn said:Corbyn in an implicit call for Cameron to invoke Article 50 tomorrow...
Edit. By soon I mean within days.0 -
Ken Clarke embarrassing himself.0
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Not a splitter, as I'm am a Tory, but I should have thought it was obvious.bigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
The Membership will continue to elect a leader who will cost them their jobs because the Membership does not reflect the values of a significant chunk of traditional Labour voters without whom the party is unelectable save in urban socialist paradises. An alternative way has to be found to save the Labour movement (not party) from Jez and the current Membership.0 -
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Mr T,
Stiff upper lip, man. The turmoil is worse in Europe. The old headline ... "Fog blankets channel. Europe cut off." is correct.
Hollande will cut and run, Merkel is making overtures (Mr Tyson, calm down), and the other countries are terrified of contagion. "Hard pounding this, gentlemen; let's see who will pound longest."0 -
Swingback not appropriate?RodCrosby said:
Too fluid, I'm afraid, to make any predictions yet. Let's see what emerges from the wreckage...Pulpstar said:
@RodCrosby Any thoughts on what might happen in an election in the autumn ?RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
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I'm interested in the future.FrankBooth said:
They were doing so much good quality building previously..............matt said:
Won't lead to a breach of financial covenants per se but may well restrict their ability to borrow to fund new developments. Great fun.SouthamObserver said:Got to say that I am loving this taking back control business.
The average stock price fall for the UK's publicly-quoted house builders is now 32%.
We do appear to have entered, to save the village we had to destroy it, territory.0 -
Of course, if we did reverse now we do it without the concessions that Cameron secured. Those were cancelled once the referendum was lost.DanSmith said:
We actually need the markets to crash hard and fast. Maybe a bank to go under in the next few days. A national emergency is the only cover politicians have to reverse this decision. And there's a very small window where this would be acceptable.SeanT said:
How do we unclusterfuck this?
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Its been less than 2 working days, there is a whole lot of trouble and for what. Have we "taken back control" All we have done is muck everything up. Brilliant stuff!Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
@thom_brooks: This is what Brexit looks like. And it ain't pretty. Public thought they voted for "control", but getting recession. https://t.co/2c7Tx3XY1w0
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The possibility of some kind of TTIP Lite is a very interesting point, which I shall consider. But how could they allow access to the single market for British SMEs? The City of London when the referendum lay in the future was said to have been seeking a relaxation of banking rules in the US itself, but I wonder how much German support they could rely on if Article 50 is invoked. And what about Johnson's promise that British people will still be able to work, travel, study, buy homes and settle down in the EU?Wulfrun_Phil said:
The European Commission is quite willing to offer free trade and access to the EU single market, to countries outside of the EU that would still retain control over their borders. They are trying their utmost to conclude such a deal with another trading partner at the moment. It's called TTIP. What Johnson is essentially seeking is something akin to that, but without all the extra add-ons sought by the US that have been a source of controversy within TTIP. In addition there's the fact that the EU and particularly the Germans need access to the UK single market much more than we need continued access to theirs, thanks to the UK trade deficit with the EU. So such a deal is perfectly possible, and the UK has a very strong negotiating hand to secure one.John_N4 said:I've just read Boris Johnson's manifesto from yesterday. He says after Brexit there will continue to be free trade and access to the EU single market. Then he says there will be a points-based immigration policy. Well you can't have both, because the single market equals the four freedoms. You simply cannot have both unless you change the EU's policy in a way that one single country that is about to leave the EU will not possibly be able to.
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Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?0 -
Odds on Skinner being in the Shadow Cabinet by teatime?TheScreamingEagles said:@henrymance: Dennis Skinner just flicked a V-sign at Labour MPs in the Commons. It's not quite fighting in the Turkish parliament, but give it time.
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You'l want the Euro next.SeanT said:Oh god I'm agreeing with Ken Clarke
Who could have predicted this.0 -
Nobody ever told Angus Robertson that self praise is no praise ?0
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The House of Commons cat must be a value bet by now.david_herdson said:
Odds on Skinner being in the Shadow Cabinet by teatime?TheScreamingEagles said:@henrymance: Dennis Skinner just flicked a V-sign at Labour MPs in the Commons. It's not quite fighting in the Turkish parliament, but give it time.
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How ghastly the rest of the parliamentary Labour Party is?Stark_Dawning said:
Did they explain their thinking?SeanT said:Some of my ridiculous Corbynite friends who had gone off Corbyn have now decided to campaign for him again.
Their idiocy is boundless, much as I love them.0 -
Only if someone had warned you about this before the referendum eh?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Bollucks.
Just realised I backed Corbyn to go in Oct-Dec 2017 instead of Oct-Dec 2016.
No wonder the odds were decent...!0 -
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Mirror poll after 2 days of bomarding its readers with letters from "moderates"
Should Jeremy Corbyn resign as Labour leader?
YES 40%
NO 60%
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The Establishment are panicking, this wasn't meant to happen.
Here's a small quiz ...
(1) Did you vote Labour at the last election?
(2( Did you vote Remain?
If you answered yes to both - congratulations, your "Champagne Socialist" badge is in the post.0 -
Well as long as the turmoil is worse in Europe - our single biggest export market - then everything is just fine :-)CD13 said:Mr T,
Stiff upper lip, man. The turmoil is worse in Europe. The old headline ... "Fog blankets channel. Europe cut off." is correct.
Hollande will cut and run, Merkel is making overtures (Mr Tyson, calm down), and the other countries are terrified of contagion. "Hard pounding this, gentlemen; let's see who will pound longest."
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@alexmassie: Top argument for PM Boris? "He's only person who could get away with not invoking Article 50." An elegant point but not wholly persuasive.
@alexmassie: Requires people to embrace, rather than just accept, Boris as a charlatan. Might make politics impossible for a generation, too.0 -
Hah - bit like when I left my lay in at 2.4 for Khan whilst I was on holiday during the Labour mayoral selection process finalising. Obviously would get matched if he won or not if he didn't.Pong said:Bollucks.
Just realised I backed Corbyn to go in Oct-Dec 2017 instead of Oct-Dec 2016.
No wonder the odds were decent...!0 -
Markets overreact and panic. Then they settle down.Jobabob said:
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
31 years ago the pound almost reached parity with the dollar. Two years later, it was back at 1.50. Life went on.
One feature of this site is the obsession that so many people have with short term financial movements. They shouldn't drive long term political decisions.0 -
Who?Jonathan said:
What's the point? He has had his chance. He's flunked it. Time for someone new.bigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Elected by Whom?0 -
So 40% of Mirror voters want him gone.bigjohnowls said:Mirror poll after 2 days of bomarding its readers with letters from "moderates"
Should Jeremy Corbyn resign as Labour leader?
YES 40%
NO 60%
He's in more trouble than even I imagined.0 -
There have been far worse examples of Champagne Populism on here over the last few weeks.TOPPING said:
Sean, no offence and all that, but you utter, utter dick.SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
Who were or weren't you listening to before the vote, in between your amusing gin-soaked diatribes, that couldn't have pointed this out to you?0 -
Hey...but at least we've got our sovereignty back. Feels great doesn't it.Jobabob said:
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Whilst I agree it should be sooner rather than later, 'within days' is not practicable IMO.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not sure it should be tomorrow but I would like to see it done very soon. Delaying it just adds to uncertainty. It will also ensure the if it's calling for the decision to be reversed can't win.williamglenn said:Corbyn in an implicit call for Cameron to invoke Article 50 tomorrow...
Edit. By soon I mean within days.
Firstly, there is obviously the political dimension - civil servants will need some political direction on what we are trying to achieve, and that can only come after we have the new PM in place. Equally, or even more, our ex-EU friends need to hold discussions on what political direction they will want to give. That will take time, but it can start now, there's absolutely no need for them to wait for the Article 50 trigger.
Secondly, simply in terms of the mechanics, both sides need time to get their negotiating teams in place and figure out how the process should work. Again that doesn't need formal notification.0 -
Think there's a lot in this.John_N4 said:...
The big mistake was EU enlargement.
BBC News, 5 June 2003:
A report indicated that up to 13,000 extra economic migrants could come to Britain each year as a direct result of 10 new countries joining the organisation.
The Conservatives have expressed fears that expanding the EU would result in large numbers of people from the former Communist countries looking for a more prosperous future in countries like the UK.
But Home Office Minister Beverley Hughes told MPs: "The number coming here for employment will be minimal."
If that had panned out as predicted, it is hard to see a path for a Leave victory - they certainly wouldn't have achieved such stonking results in places like Wisbech and Boston that were demographically transformed by the 2004 and 2007 enlargements.
I think failure to decisively squish the issue of Turkish accession was also a factor, not sure if it was decisive. If Remain wanted to they could have done it - Cameron could just veto Turkey's application.
Reassurances about "it's taken so long it won't happen in our lifetime" and "we can always veto it" or "on human rights ground it won't happen anyway" were never going to cut the mustard. If the EU cares so deeply about human rights and democracy, the Turkish application would be blocked by now in protest at Erdogan's more repressive policies. If we were going to veto Turkish accession, why not do it early - who can trust that a PM later down the line will stick to such a promise? We didn't veto the East European expansion so there's little reason to think we'd block Turkey either. And as for "in our lifetimes" - what was the timelag between the fall of the Berlin Wall and the accession of Poland, Hungary, the Baltic states and former Czechoslovakia? How long between the Greek colonels and the Greek accession? The Estado Novo and the Francoists, and the Iberian accessions?0 -
I'm afraid we're justt going to have to differ on the issue of the relevance of proportions.rcs1000 said:
No, proportions matter.Wulfrun_Phil said:
That's a false comparison. You could by the same token say that exports from the rest of the world to the UK are only (say) 1% of the ROW GDP compared to (say) close to 20% for UK exports to the ROW. That wouldn't mean that either country had any less interest in maintaining the volume of trade.rcs1000 said:
I'm sorry, but exports to the UK are 3% of EU GDP against close to 10% for UK exports to the EU.Wulfrun_Phil said:In addition there's the fact that the EU and particularly the Germans need access to the UK single market much more than we need continued access to theirs, thanks to the UK trade deficit with the EU. So such a deal is perfectly possible, and the UK has a very strong negotiating hand to secure one.
It would be just as disastrous for us to lose access to the EU as vice-versa.
What matters is that you compare the gross amount in £s (or Euros if you must). And the figures are that for every £2 we export to the EU, they export £3 to us. That is the comparison that matters, and it is why the EU has much more of a stake in maintaining the present volume of trade with the UK than.vice versa.
Think about it this way. There are two people, one earns £100,000/year, and the other £1m/year.
A sum of £10,000 is more important to the person earning £100,000/year. Indeed, it would be more important to him than £90,000 out of the mythical millionaire.
In any case, the EU will offer is tariff free movement of goods. That's a given. The real question is about our ability to offer financial services to the EU under the passporting scheme. If we cannot, it will be a very serious blow to the UK as a financial centre.
I accept that there's an issue about financial services that's particularly relevant to (EU-friendly) London, given how imbalanced the UK economy has become. However, there's an issue about our declining manufacturing base, that's particularly relevant to us here in the West Midlands. That base has declined at a precipitate rate over the past 40 years, far more steeply than in other industrialised countries, and that coincides with our membership of the EU. Some rebalancing of our economy is necessary and desirable.0 -
Tim Farron now mocking Boris for hiding.0
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Ultimately, you're proving yourself what you know, thst you're a pragmatist, with a good writing style. A Boris Johnson without the sex life perhaps. Zealots take a more robust view.SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters0 -
Europe Minister?david_herdson said:
Odds on Skinner being in the Shadow Cabinet by teatime?TheScreamingEagles said:@henrymance: Dennis Skinner just flicked a V-sign at Labour MPs in the Commons. It's not quite fighting in the Turkish parliament, but give it time.
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"Brexit currency linkages from IIF. Very rough indicator. Polish Zloty and South African Rand most correlated"Scott_P said:@nj_morrison: #BREAKING Poland wants second in-out 'Brexit' referendum: ruling party leader @AFP #Poland
twitter.com/AmbroseEP/status/7473900205253591040 -
I'll take that as an apology!SeanT said:I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.
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Yeah but given they spend so much time sitting on land, plus ca change.matt said:
I'm interested in the future.FrankBooth said:
They were doing so much good quality building previously..............matt said:
Won't lead to a breach of financial covenants per se but may well restrict their ability to borrow to fund new developments. Great fun.SouthamObserver said:Got to say that I am loving this taking back control business.
The average stock price fall for the UK's publicly-quoted house builders is now 32%.
We do appear to have entered, to save the village we had to destroy it, territory.0 -
@CD13
'Hollande will cut and run, Merkel is making overtures (Mr Tyson, calm down), and the other countries are terrified of contagion. "Hard pounding this, gentlemen; let's see who will pound longest.'
Have they decided which countries will be picking up the UK's £ 11 billion budget contribution?
Is it being split among Germany,France & Italy, hence the meeting to-day ?
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Tim Farron spent the whole coalition hiding. I hope he thinks it was worth it, looking at the 7 MPs he now leads.Scott_P said:Tim Farron now mocking Boris for hiding.
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Sorry, but we may have to shoot Mr T as a cowardly deserter.
The markets will settle down, they always do. There'll be a few profits taken and the world will carry on. Auntie BBC has wet her knickers and the other media outlets are enjoying themselves.
The hysterical Remainers will gradually come round to "Acceptance" then we'll deal with the EU on an adult basis.
And Mr Observer, the EU is unstable, but it always was.
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I think Boris would look like a eunuch in comparison.matt said:
Ultimately, you're proving yourself what you know, thst you're a pragmatist, with a good writing style. A Boris Johnson without the sex life perhaps. Zealots take a more robust view.SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
To save anyone else clicking on that link to find out who the flying buggery someone called "Thom Brooks" might be .... his profile says he's a Labour policy advisor. So Scott's picking all the neutral ones to pass on as usual.Scott_P said:@thom_brooks: This is what Brexit looks like. And it ain't pretty. Public thought they voted for "control", but getting recession. https://t.co/2c7Tx3XY1w
0 -
8 if you include SoubryTissue_Price said:
Tim Farron spent the whole coalition hiding. I hope he thinks it was worth it, looking at the 7 MPs he now leads.Scott_P said:Tim Farron now mocking Boris for hiding.
0 -
Do you ever go back and look at what you have written on here in the past?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
The vitriol you poured on people who declared for remain was quite something. 2 working days in and your flapping like a big girl0 -
Britain's bremorseful brexiteers branded braitorsScott_P said:If Brexiteers were calling Remainers Traitors before the vote, what term will they use for Brexiteers with Bremorse?
Braitors?0 -
Appreciate the effort at spinning. You are Peter Mandelson and I claim my £5bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters0 -
"The PM says Scotland is in two single markets - the UK and EU - and ideally should remain in both."
EFTA/EEA here we come?0 -
Clegg pleading for an early GE so he can leave the HoC.0
-
I wouldn't be surprised if most builders voted Leave.rcs1000 said:
I had a meeting with a French investment banker who's being recalled to Paris (which he's not 100% happy with).SouthamObserver said:Got to say that I am loving this taking back control business.
The average stock price fall for the UK's publicly-quoted house builders is now 32%.
Prime London property is going to get absolutely massacred.0 -
I prefer to consider the needs of the 9 million who voted Labour in 2015, not the membership which represent 0.5% of them, if that.bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters0 -
"Markets overreact and panic. Then they settle down."Sean_F said:
Markets overreact and panic. Then they settle down.Jobabob said:
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
31 years ago the pound almost reached parity with the dollar. Two years later, it was back at 1.50. Life went on.
One feature of this site is the obsession that so many people have with short term financial movements. They shouldn't drive long term political decisions.
See last Thursday on Betfair for evidence of that0 -
Yes it does. It feels superb.midwinter said:
Hey...but at least we've got our sovereignty back. Feels great doesn't it.Jobabob said:
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Hmm, that's a very different tone from what the Tories were saying 2010. Why did we go through all that austerity if the markets don't matter?Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.0 -
Do you want the members to decide a new Lab leader?Jonathan said:
Appreciate the effort at spinning. You are Peter Mandelson and I claim my £5bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question no spin required.
If so Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which JC will be a candidate.
Whats the problem?0 -
Was there another tell in Cameron's answer on Trident? "The honourable member wants 1 referendum and 4 submarines."SandyRentool said:"The PM says Scotland is in two single markets - the UK and EU - and ideally should remain in both."
EFTA/EEA here we come?
Could another referendum be on the cards?0 -
I wouldn't be surprised if Labour explicitly promises not to invoke Article 50 without further consultation. I am sure the Lib Dems would.rottenborough said:Whose writing Tory manifesto? Will it explicitly say Article 50 will be triggered.
0 -
Brexiteers look away, You want to keep pretending this is not happening
@SkyNewsBreak: National Police Chiefs' Council: reports to online hate crime reporting site up 57% between Thursday and Sunday compared to four weeks ago0 -
Do you think he'll lose his seat, or not stand?Tissue_Price said:Clegg pleading for an early GE so he can leave the HoC.
I recon he'll keep his seat if he stands.
Fancy an evens bet?0 -
All the Scots Indy polls post Brexit give Indy a lead, by various margins.0 -
Have they abolished the Chiltern Hundreds?Tissue_Price said:Clegg pleading for an early GE so he can leave the HoC.
0 -
Thousands of marxist nutters and idealistic dreamers in the membership. That's the problem.bigjohnowls said:
Do you want the members to decide a new Lab leader?Jonathan said:
Appreciate the effort at spinning. You are Peter Mandelson and I claim my £5bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question no spin required.
If so Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which JC will be a candidate.
Whats the problem?0 -
What price should Boris be to be the next Conservative leader? Is he still a massive lay?
It seems obvious to me that he is a shoo in
Is there a way of betting with people on here who disagree, like a betting exchange without the commision?0 -
Eric Pickles looks like he's eaten Tom Watson.0
-
I do hope so - Option 1 EFTA, Option 2 WTO trade and no freedom of movement.williamglenn said:
Was there another tell in Cameron's answer on Trident? "The honourable member wants 1 referendum and 4 submarines."SandyRentool said:"The PM says Scotland is in two single markets - the UK and EU - and ideally should remain in both."
EFTA/EEA here we come?
Could another referendum be on the cards?0 -
@PCollinsTimes: A debate on leaving the EU in the House of Commons and Gove and Johnson don't turn up. No more pious lectures on democracy from them.0
-
A General Election is needed at any rate.surbiton said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Labour explicitly promises not to invoke Article 50 without further consultation. I am sure the Lib Dems would.rottenborough said:Whose writing Tory manifesto? Will it explicitly say Article 50 will be triggered.
0 -
surely online hate crime is more likely from the remain side?Scott_P said:Brexiteers look away, You want to keep pretending this is not happening
@SkyNewsBreak: National Police Chiefs' Council: reports to online hate crime reporting site up 57% between Thursday and Sunday compared to four weeks ago0 -
SeanT said:
Obviously that's where we are headed, if the Tories get their way. And if they can persuade the EU.SandyRentool said:"The PM says Scotland is in two single markets - the UK and EU - and ideally should remain in both."
EFTA/EEA here we come?
Well they should hurry up then, because by the time we actually get EU-lite the country will be full-scale fucked.0 -
So how do you think a new leader should be chosen?Jobabob said:
I prefer to consider the needs of the 9 million who voted Labour in 2015, not the membership which represent 0.5% of them, if that.bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question.
0 -
I suppose my point is that simply by triggering it we don't have to sit down the next morning and start negotiations.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst I agree it should be sooner rather than later, 'within days' is not practicable IMO.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not sure it should be tomorrow but I would like to see it done very soon. Delaying it just adds to uncertainty. It will also ensure the if it's calling for the decision to be reversed can't win.williamglenn said:Corbyn in an implicit call for Cameron to invoke Article 50 tomorrow...
Edit. By soon I mean within days.
Firstly, there is obviously the political dimension - civil servants will need some political direction on what we are trying to achieve, and that can only come after we have the new PM in place. Equally, or even more, our ex-EU friends need to hold discussions on what political direction they will want to give. That will take time, but it can start now, there's absolutely no need for them to wait for the Article 50 trigger.
Secondly, simply in terms of the mechanics, both sides need time to get their negotiating teams in place and figure out how the process should work. Again that doesn't need formal notification.
The EU want us to trigger it because it gives them something definite to work with - all the more so because they will be looking at the suggestions we might change our minds. Forget the ranting 'how dare they tell us what to do' lot. The EU comments are perfectly sensible from their perspective. They need some certainty.
The same applies to the markets. There is more than enough uncertainty around at the moment and a lot of the current volatility in both the markets and the pound is driven by the understandable impression they are getting that no one is in charge. Invoking Article 50 again gives that certainty.
Personally of course I want it done sooner rather than later so no bugger can manage to stop it happening.0 -
Is there a market on if/when article 50 will be invoked?0
-
No wait, they're coming back in.SeanT said:
My sex life is more exotic, quite possibly, than Bojo's.matt said:
Ultimately, you're proving yourself what you know, thst you're a pragmatist, with a good writing style. A Boris Johnson without the sex life perhaps. Zealots take a more robust view.SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
I'm glad I'm not a zealot.
In the next few years we will find out if I was a total fucking cretin to vote LEAVE. The jury is out.0 -
Really? There's an "online hate crime reporting site"?Scott_P said:Brexiteers look away, You want to keep pretending this is not happening
@SkyNewsBreak: National Police Chiefs' Council: reports to online hate crime reporting site up 57% between Thursday and Sunday compared to four weeks ago
Who pays for this bollocks? The poor suffering taxpayer on behalf of special snowflakes everywhere, that's who. There's an extra way to save a few quid.0 -
Extraordinary that Boris has not shown up. What a complete tosser he is. I very much look forward to him taking over as PM and being exposed to the full consequences of the lies he told.0
-
Corbyn has proved what an utter self-serving twit he is by intimating to Cameron that Article 50 should be invoked immediately.0
-
So how you going to elect a leader?Jobabob said:
Thousands of marxist nutters and idealistic dreamers in the membership. That's the problem.bigjohnowls said:
Do you want the members to decide a new Lab leader?Jonathan said:
Appreciate the effort at spinning. You are Peter Mandelson and I claim my £5bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question no spin required.
If so Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which JC will be a candidate.
Whats the problem?0 -
F1: Ladbrokes markets up for Austria.
Interestingly, the early possible bets I was considering (didn't back) for Vettel or Raikkonen to win have both shortened.0 -
Yes.midwinter said:
Hey...but at least we've got our sovereignty back. Feels great doesn't it.Jobabob said:
An insight into the europhobe mentality. It doesn't matter how much value is wiped off the economy, how many pensions are wrecked, how many of people's hard earned assets are crushed in value or how many jobs are lost. As long as we leave the EU, that's a price worth paying.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
0 -
By the PLP.bigjohnowls said:
So how do you think a new leader should be chosen?Jobabob said:
I prefer to consider the needs of the 9 million who voted Labour in 2015, not the membership which represent 0.5% of them, if that.bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question.0 -
Yes. Belfast will be part of an unified Ireland soon.Alistair said:
So we will check passports from Norther Ireland to the Mainland UK then?rcs1000 said:
Rights of residence != ability to cross border without your passportAlistair said:Can any Leaver tell me how this particular circle is going to be squared?
There will be Controls on Immigration
There will be an open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland
Canadians do not require passports to enter the US, but they're not allowed to just cross the border and get a job in the nearest diner.
I'm just trying to work out how we stop illegal immigrants coming from Dublin across the open border to NI and then onto the UK.
You know, how we Control Immigration.0 -
You were warned.SeanT said:
lol. I happily admit it's not been my finest hour. I am unnerved. Im my defence, I am unnerved by the numbers of people I like, admire, and even love, who are absolutely shattered by this result - in tears, distraught, looking at horrible changes to their lives.saddened said:
Do you ever go back and look at what you have written on here in the past?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
The vitriol you poured on people who declared for remain was quite something. 2 working days in and your flapping like a big girl
It's very hard to be relentlessly stoical and convinced of one's virtue when this is happening to immediate friends and family.
Sack up you Quisling pig, which I believe is the comment you aimed at me for backing Remain0 -
Cameron a class act here. Can't see anybody who is a likely winner coming anywhere close.0
-
I'll go along with that.Richard_Tyndall said:
Personally of course I want it done sooner rather than later so no bugger can manage to stop it happening.
Liam Fox made the point (Sunday Politics interview?) that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so to avoid being caught up for an extra year we should trigger article 50 before Jan.
0 -
Fair play to you for having the cojones to admit you were wrong.SeanT said:
lol. I happily admit it's not been my finest hour. I am unnerved. Im my defence, I am unnerved by the numbers of people I like, admire, and even love, who are absolutely shattered by this result - in tears, distraught, looking at horrible changes to their lives.saddened said:
Do you ever go back and look at what you have written on here in the past?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
The vitriol you poured on people who declared for remain was quite something. 2 working days in and your flapping like a big girl
It's very hard to be relentlessly stoical and convinced of one's virtue when this is happening to immediate friends and family.0 -
David Lammy on how he thinks parliament should reject the referendum result:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jcATmvGiDQ0 -
Last Thursday they under-reacted and failed to panic when they should have done.MontyHall said:"Markets overreact and panic. Then they settle down."
See last Thursday on Betfair for evidence of that0 -
Just to cheer up you sad Remainers.
I've phoned one of my brothers in Brexit Central. He says Boston is overjoyed and not worried at all. It's party time there. If you go and claim to have voted Leave you'll be garlanded with flowers.0 -
Was Ms Leadsom there?Scott_P said:@PCollinsTimes: A debate on leaving the EU in the House of Commons and Gove and Johnson don't turn up. No more pious lectures on democracy from them.
0 -
Contemplating Boris's lack of spine, I am reminded of Monty Python's Brave Sir Robin:
Brave Sir Robin ran away
(No!)
Bravely ran away away
(I didn't!)
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled
(No!)
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
(I didn't!)
And gallantly he chickened out0 -
Sean will change his mind at least 3 times more before Xmas.Jobabob said:
Fair play to you for having the cojones to admit you were wrong.SeanT said:
lol. I happily admit it's not been my finest hour. I am unnerved. Im my defence, I am unnerved by the numbers of people I like, admire, and even love, who are absolutely shattered by this result - in tears, distraught, looking at horrible changes to their lives.saddened said:
Do you ever go back and look at what you have written on here in the past?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
The vitriol you poured on people who declared for remain was quite something. 2 working days in and your flapping like a big girl
It's very hard to be relentlessly stoical and convinced of one's virtue when this is happening to immediate friends and family.0 -
Kelvin McKenzie this morning, SeanT this afternoon. How many others are out there? What a disaster.Jobabob said:
Fair play to you for having the cojones to admit you were wrong.SeanT said:
lol. I happily admit it's not been my finest hour. I am unnerved. Im my defence, I am unnerved by the numbers of people I like, admire, and even love, who are absolutely shattered by this result - in tears, distraught, looking at horrible changes to their lives.saddened said:
Do you ever go back and look at what you have written on here in the past?SeanT said:
I'm not going to pieces, but it would take a halfwit not to be worried by the potential for economic calamity - and the dissolution of the Union.Sean_F said:
Quite. I couldn't give a toss about the financial markets.Richard_Tyndall said:
I voted Leave and my conscience is also clear.Bob__Sykes said:
You voted Out!SeanT said:
But if the economic meltdown continues then there will be a lot of people, an awful lot, who would quite like parliament to overrule the people.RodCrosby said:Lammy ranting on Sky: "Referendum needs 2/3rds majority. We can't have rule by the mob! I'll never vote for Brexit in the HoC"
I presume we have all seen Kelvin MacKenzie's public expression of Bremorse in the Sun?
As I said yesterday, the markets will decide this, and right now the markets are going mental. A bigger loss than Lehmans. We have destabilised not only ourselves, but other countries, some of which were perilously close to chaos already.
I also suggested that we were entering a dynamic, chaotic state yesterday - that we had set off an entirely unpredictable chain reaction. And I was pooh-poohed by some.
Maybe the fiend Osborne was right and we have put a bomb under everything. Eeeesh.
How do we unclusterfuck this?
This uncertainty and turmoil, wholly predictable and indeed predicted, was the principal reason I backed Remain in the end, to the bemusement of some on here.
My conscience is at least clear.
Sean is being a knob. You make your choices and you live with them. You don't go to pieces at the first sign of trouble.
The vitriol you poured on people who declared for remain was quite something. 2 working days in and your flapping like a big girl
It's very hard to be relentlessly stoical and convinced of one's virtue when this is happening to immediate friends and family.0 -
I would like to see the leadership rules played with a straight bat. As such candidates should only be nominated if they have the actual, real support of the PLP. Clearly to lead Labour you need the support of both members and MPs.bigjohnowls said:
Do you want the members to decide a new Lab leader?Jonathan said:
Appreciate the effort at spinning. You are Peter Mandelson and I claim my £5bigjohnowls said:
So you dont want a democratic election where members get a sayJobabob said:
Corbyn has been given plenty of time. He has utterly failed. If the party has to split and be led in parliament by someone vaguely competent, so be itbigjohnowls said:
Anyone?bigjohnowls said:Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn 17h17 hours ago
Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which I'll be a candidate
Can someone tell me why the splitters dont want to do this.
It can only be because they want to impose a new leader without members getting a say IMO
Surely some of the splitter supporters on here must have a view?
Fair enough nor do the splitters
Simple question no spin required.
If so Those wanting to change Labour's leadership will have to stand in a democratic election in which JC will be a candidate.
Whats the problem?
If I were to change anything I would amend the £3 rules where anyone can claim to be a supporter of the party and get a vote. We caught some Tories for Corbyn at my CLP (a sitting councillor FFS), but I suspect we didn't catch them all.0 -
They can't speak for long so little point turning up. Better to read the edited highlights in Hansard....Scott_P said:@PCollinsTimes: A debate on leaving the EU in the House of Commons and Gove and Johnson don't turn up. No more pious lectures on democracy from them.
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This discussion has been closed.