Much of the debate surrounding potential military action in Syria has focussed on two aspects: what effect would such action have, and would it be lawful as things stand. In a sense, the two are linked in an unusual way. The normal reasons for intervening militarily are for one government to force a change of policy upon another, or to impose a settlement on an area.
Comments
Serious point: Feck this "imperialism" bull-crap. We should intervene because:
a) We are drunken Engerlisch thugs who know what is right! [Gottit, or are you looking for a fight? Kant!]
b) We are still the second world super-power (according to some obscure Chinese Defence Institute). [Google it!]
c) It is the right thing to do!
d) Ed is crap....
We defeated slavery and - hopefully - will end FGM and sex-biased late abortions soon. Now who wants an argument...?
Assad has carte blanche to gas his people and the brutal Putin looks like he is calling the shots of world affairs while America and Europe are in complete disarray.
A sad outcome all round.
But in better news the Aussie's are tearing up the progressive consensus - We'll watch these developments with great interest, I'm sure...
Others seem to be doing well. PUP in particular.
Fracturing of Australian politics?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbbBS3w6YSY#t=306
I wonder how much Hollande's keenness to get involved has been encouraged by the French intervention in Mali earlier in the year, which went rather swimmingly well and led to a peace treaty in June, and a possible return to democracy?
Syria is very different to Mali, but it must have had some effect on his thinking.
They became hysterical at the prospect of Cameron becoming PM and Boris the Mayor of London - Imagine the meltdown we'd see if we had a REAL right-wing Conservative leader getting anywhere near power.
Would be entertaining, LOL!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/capr/
Blair got Iraq. He got Syria.
As I say, I don't see how getting involved in this conflict at this point will help them, us or the world, but I don't really think arguments about mandate or imperial ambitions or anything are helpful or even that relevant. Nations decide for themselves what is their business (and I would say that the affairs of the world are everyone's business, be you USA or Kiribati or St Kitts and Nevis), and act if they have the will to do so, and will then come up with a reason why their acting is ok, and if people agree they say it is legal (be it duty to protect or whatever) and if they don't agree they will always say it is illegal. You can bet your money if the UN did approve regime change somewhere those most in opposition (not least the people being removed) would say that alone does not make it legal. So I don't see the point in arguing legality or who has a mandate all that much as no-one will ever agree on it, and it is only ever down to who is willing to act, not what is right. It's just about whether the outcome can justify the cost. Extremely hard to predict or judge, and often made incorrectly no doubt, but arguments about mandates and international law are just smokescreens for the same old thousands of years game of international relations and the motivations and justifications therein, so what's the point? Apparently we and our opponents just don't like to be blunt in how we couch our intentions and reasons, and are always looking to sway world opinion with specious reasonings.
Talk about a patsy!
"Go back four years: hard as it may be to believe today, it was the Liberal party that was in a state of disarray after the unsatisfactory leadership periods of Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull. Spooked by the seemingly never-ending popularity of Mr Rudd, the Coalition MPs and senators tore themselves apart attempting to create distance from the Howard era; embracing an unconvincing and erroneous centre-left positioning that John Stone wittily labelled in these pages as ‘Ruddbullism’. Unimpressed by this pandering to the inner-city elites, voters fled and the LNP dropped dangerously low in the polls."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-leading-article/9001331/tonys-time/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-07/election-day-live/4942328
EtA: ALP [Political party; not Seth's cousin.] == Australia's Test Cricket Team.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/fish/
Nice one Ed..
Police chiefs in England and Wales paid £660,952 for licences so staff could listen to music in offices in the past year, a Freedom of Information request has revealed.
The highest expenditure came from the Metropolitan Police which paid £246,297.
Four forces paid nothing, while 17 spent more than £10,000.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23984386
The Performing Right Society (PRS) collects the fees and pays royalties to artists.
The statistics were obtained by Robert Foulds, the clerk of Bramley Parish Council in Rotherham, South Yorkshire.
"Here are a few of Axegrinder’s favourites from the first category:
In Oz the "Liberal" Party is a Millsian Tory party that follows the philosophy of Adam Smith.
In the UK the "Liberal" Party is a clone of social-interventionism that is more akin to the name-sake Russian thugocracy of old men coming to terms with their rebellious sons. Spicks-and-spams....
:young-turks:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24001833
It would be interesting to know who the Egyptian army define as 'militants'.
The whole region's going to hell in a handcart. I'm now near the stage of thinking that there'll be a regional conflagration.
Abbott won, so not really a poor performance, but certainly not great either. He was a brilliant opposition leader, PM a different story, and the focus and pressure now moves from Rudd to him
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/results/
We may be a "small island" but London is about 20 times more popular than Moscow - including among Russians Mr Putin bit.ly/15DVypV
AV (and the 2PP) of course reinforces the appearance of two-party dominance, but in reality this election demonstrates the two-party system has never been weaker...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/guide/petr/
"I understand from unofficial sources that while No10 is briefing that the en masse pull-out is due to the high-profile involvement of Windsor MP Adam Afriyie, the real reason for the sudden boycott is that the conference is open to non-party members. That is to say, CCHQ/No10 are concerned that the Conservative Renewal conference is nothing but an opportunity for Ukip entryism, for it is the presence of Ukip members which is the apparent cause of anxiety."
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2013/09/adrian-hilton-why-number-10-is-wrong-to-pull-ministers-from-the-windsor-tory-renewal-conference.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-07/election-day-live/4942328
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dERmb2NsbmpUNmlyOHplOTNOTE9iZVE#gid=0
Intervention on the grounds of our own view of what is unacceptable needs careful thinking through.
Our own society has many features which other societies find unacceptable. Are we prepared to hear the same arguments used back at us in justification of military action against us, or would we consider that unjustifiable interference?
When you see Labor achieve it’s lowest vote in history at 33%, you have to think the light on the hill has turned to a match stick - Robb
* ABC news.
That is then, this is now: When facts change then so should opinions. You are better then your post posits....
What will be the major fundamental changes ?.
When you're done constructing straw men to try and downplay a very big win, I'd love to hear why you keep quoting out of date projects and never mention it when the projection moves away from Rudd, which it has been doing consistently.
To date,there are a million dead with the death tally being added onto every week.
And the UK and US went in as global policemen without U.N security council authorisation on the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction and the result is a million dead.And there were no WMD either.
So it makes perfect sense for us to rush headlong into the next conflict with no idea of the consequences.
ABBOTT: "The Australian Labor Party's vote is at the lowest level in more than 100 years." nwspl.us/oEzsM #ausvotes
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges
Hearing Unite might be preparing similar funding announcement to GMB.
55,000 Aussies voted for the Sex Party, 466 voted for the Wikileaks party abc.net.au/news/federal-e…
‘But then the customer began to tell me his story, about how he came to own them. He had all the supporting documents, so it began to seem less insane and appeared genuine.
‘It was a massive gamble, handing over the £15,000, but now I know the collection is worth a lot more. I had one offer for £1.2million, but I don’t want to sell them just yet. I want people to get a chance to see them first.’
The customer, a civil servant and avid collector, from Wirral, Merseyside, became obsessed with the story of the Titanic as a young boy after he inherited a piece of wooden stairwell from a first class cabin on the liner.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2414823/Pawnbroker-handed-relics-Titanic-worth-1-2million-carrier-bag-recovered-seabed-early-1990s.html#ixzz2eD4KCNw4
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Understand some pretty frantic discussions going on to try to prevent McCluskey pulling the trigger. May require Ed to eat humble pie.
Falkirk, a non-story, a clear win for Ed. Swift. Decisive. Len's Bitch.
Last time (when the Welshwitch - no, not Ms Ruddock, t'other one - won) did not the election take weeks to settle? Is it fair to say that, this year, the result is pretty fair-dinkum...?
Does anyone know who wrote Cameron's small island speech yesterday? His tone is changing.
@nicholaswatt
@RowennaDavis Edward Elgar
@DPJHodges
Hear those footsteps? That's cold, hard political reality catching up with Ed Miliband and the Labour party...
Today's result was a clear win, but there may be a long wait for the final count to finish.
A day after European partners Germany has signed G20 statement linking Assad to use of chemical weapons. French not impressed with her delay
Ayes to the right, re-tyred-eds to the left. Clear the chamber...
Sadly this site is just an eco chamber of the same few Tory posters. Hopefully on his return he will sort it out.