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Ed Miliband "It was right that he went as he was becoming a distraction." Ed spells out why Watson stepped down.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23186851

Must be a case of follow the money. POEMWAS. Will he be rehiring Watson? Looks like utter horlicks c. Jack Straw.

dr_spyn said:

Will he be rehiring Watson? Looks like utter horlicks c. Jack Straw.

It's hard to imagine a way in which Ed's handling of this affair could be worse, but rehiring Tom Watson might just be the magic ticket.

It's nearly as bad as his Syria cockup.

Evening all

I wish I had a view on Strictly Come Dancing but it's up there with Scottish Independence and the minutiae of internal Labour party politics.

It may interest others but I really couldn't give a proverbial...

I thought the Faeroes might nick a draw against Kazakhstan and got on at 7/2 but no joy. I'll stick to the horses from now on.

stodge said:

GeoffM said:

@stodge I also have no interest whatsoever in it and have never watched it. I do however strongly approve of TSE's ingenious and unexpected betting threads. Long may they continue.

Well said, Geoff, and very true. I'm afraid even TSE has failed to engender an interest but, as you say, full marks for effort.

Click on the video and watch it the whole way through, and you may change your mind.

Ed has swiftly and decisively shut down the Falkirk non-story. No lingering resentment. No festering sores threatening to burst.

@tom_watson
After the decision over Falkirk, I'm sure @jimmurphymp would wish to retract his comments about the role of @unitetheunion.

Won't be betting on this, but she could wrap her legs around my neck any time!

And I apologise to any Welsh Rugby fans I've upset with this thread

::Innocent face::

Alanbrooke said:

Just to cheer you up the Bus manufacturer where Eck launched his economic manifesto for Scotland has just voted to go on strike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-23987526

Unite's the union taking action. In Falkirk.

Unite are also threatening a strike hitting beer deliveries. Sandwiches only at the next Labour conference...

Interesting piece, Mr. Eagles. Must admit to being pissed with Strictly as back when Snowdon was a contestant I stood to make (for me, with £2 stakes) quite a lot. But then they fiddled their own system so Tom Chambers, who should've been eliminated, got through to the final, and I made a small sum rather than a large one (for me).

May back the top girl you mention, though I've never heard of her.

Definitely a worthy debate that will challenge the UKIP orthodoxy in the UK in particular.

Tomorrow's Telegraph Leader - Britain must remain an outward-looking nation

"Yet the taunt hit home because we fear its element of truth. Doubtless there are people who would like to retreat behind the walls of our island fastness; but that has never been the British way. We have always been an outward-looking nation and must remain so. Mr Cameron’s task on his return is to rise above the self-referential navel-gazing that has become a hallmark of our modern political discourse and articulate that global vision. An American politician once said we had lost an empire but had yet to find a role. It would seem that is still true today."

LOL Will they have to hold a ballot and a whip around to see who will be in charge of the booze run this time. Be far quicker than asking Ed Miliband to produce a decision or position on this any time soon. And when he finally did make a decision, no doubt someone in the Shadow Cabinet would come along and over ride him by threatening to resign if he didn't go back on it.

Scott_P said:

Alanbrooke said:

Just to cheer you up the Bus manufacturer where Eck launched his economic manifesto for Scotland has just voted to go on strike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-23987526

Unite's the union taking action. In Falkirk.

Unite are also threatening a strike hitting beer deliveries. Sandwiches only at the next Labour conference...

fitalass said:

LOL Will they have to hold a ballot and a whip around to see who will be in charge of the booze run this time.

No, Len will tell Ed to go. And pay for it.

Great Britons, Great Speeches

When the French Ambassador stated that the Dauphin rejected Henry V's claims on French territory and titles as the misdirected folly of youth and presented Henry with a gift of tennis balls so that he may indulge his thirst for competition in harmless games, Henry V (with Shakespeare's assistance) replied:

We are glad the Dauphin is so pleasant with us;
His present and your pains we thank you for:
When we have march'd our rackets to these balls,
We will, in France, by God's grace, play a set
Shall strike his father's crown into the hazard.
...
And tell the pleasant prince this mock of his
Hath turn'd his balls to gun-stones; and his soul
Shall stand sore charged for the wasteful vengeance
That shall fly with them: for many a thousand widows
Shall this his mock mock out of their dear husbands;
Mock mothers from their sons, mock castles down;
And some are yet ungotten and unborn
That shall have cause to curse the Dauphin's scorn.

When Queen Elizabeth I was counselled against taking on the Spanish Armada in 1588, she reviewed and addressed the Earl of Leicester's troops at Tilbury:

My loving people, we have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit ourself to armed multitudes for fear of treachery; but I assure you, I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people ... I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a King of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any Prince of Europe should dare to invade the borders of my realm.

When French Marshal Philippe Pétain, future leader of the collaborationist Vichy French government who was convinced that Germany would successfully invade Britain as it had done France, sneered to Winston Churchill that in three weeks Britain would "have its neck wrung like a chicken", Churchill later replied:

"When I warned them that Britain would fight on alone whatever they did, their generals told their Prime Minister and his divided Cabinet, 'In three weeks England will have her neck wrung like a chicken.' Some chicken! Some neck!" [Ottawa, Dec. 30, 1941]

When Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, mocked Britain by saying it was “just a small island … no one pays any attention to them”, David Cameron responded:

"Britain is an island that has helped to clear the European continent of fascism and was resolute in doing that throughout the Second World War.

Britain is an island that helped to abolish slavery, that has invented most of the things worth inventing, including every sport currently played around the world, that still today is responsible for art, literature and music that delights the entire world.

We are very proud of everything we do as a small island - a small island that has the sixth-largest economy, the fourth best-funded military, some of the most effective diplomats, the proudest history, one of the best records for art and literature and contribution to philosophy and world civilisation.

Jest, you say? Each wicked word is a malicious barb in my soul, Mr. M!

Whilst displeased with how things are going, I had a pretty good 2011 and even better 2012, and, as Miyamoto Musashi observed, in nature all things entail rising and falling.

Scott_P said:

I have had a punt on Susanna Reid

N.B. This is a bet. Not a prediction. This is not the start of a BBC Breakfast surge. Smart readers will understand this.

Not a betting man myself, but I also fancy Susanna Reid. I always watch Breakfast when she's on

SeanT said:

It was a fumbling "speech" by Cameron. Silly and embarrassing. He should have dismissed Russia with one short, nasty quip.

"Britain is a small island, maybe that explains why we've never found space for Gulags. Next question?"

Instead, we built concentration camps in South Africa.

Ed has swiftly and decisively buried the Falkirk bad news

@Markfergusonuk: After this, the clamour for the Labour Party to reveal the #falkirk report is going to get louder http://t.co/CBeMestiG5

This thread is about a TV program isn't it?

Laters.

Tykejohnno said:

SeanT said:

This whole Syria f*ck-up is a glimpse of what the end-of-the-American century will look like.

American hegemony is over. It is palpable.

and if it's a Russia,china and iran century,it must be on the cards a third world war.

Should there be a 3rd World War it won't be anyone's century!

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

Swift. Decisive.

@PeteWishart: Labour clear Labour of any Labour irregularities in the Labour party in Falkirk. #labour

Non-story successfully buried.

Tykejohnno said:

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

It will be IOS and RedRag next.

Nick Palmer will switch to the Greens.

tim needs a little more time.

Southam Observer will go down with the ship.

GeoffM said:

Tykejohnno said:

and if it's a Russia,china and iran century,it must be on the cards a third world war.

They would be the major players but we'll need the Hun to start it off for old times sake.

Worth remembering that at the start of 1900, all the newspaper editorials were waxing lyrical about how the British century was at a close, and the German century was just beginning!

Made sense at the time - a populous and very "modern" country (in its new constitutional form, about 30 years of age) with strong economic growth and an industrial lead in several key areas (e.g. dyes and chemicals).

While it turned out to be the American century after all, it was Germany's attempts at a rise that drove many of the most devastating events of the first half of the century.

AveryLP said:

Tykejohnno said:

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

It will be IOS and RedRag next.

Nick Palmer will switch to the Greens.

tim needs a little more time.

Southam Observer will go down with the ship.

Note: The subject Avery continues to have his delusional world manipulated successfully.

tim is the woman spurned by Daves datenights and Georges pasties.Methinks he does protest too much and eventually his dammed up.adoration will be displayed in a tory love fest.

Either that or I am getting a bit pissed on some left over Malmsey.

AveryLP said:

Tykejohnno said:

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

It will be IOS and RedRag next.

Nick Palmer will switch to the Greens.

tim needs a little more time.

Southam Observer will go down with the ship.

Twitter
Gerry Braiden ‏@GerryBraiden 7m
Scottish Labour politician charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice. Details @TheHeraldPaper tomorrow

tim said:

Tykejohnno said:

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

Any details?
We all know that local defections are usually due to personal differences.

Cllr Abdul Aziz, apparently. Listed as an independent here which does make local differences seem more likely.

SeanT said:

Actually, I've just seen Cameron's speech set to music and I have changed my mind 180 degrees (something hitherto unknown)

It was quite good. Well done that man.

*hoists flag*

It grows on you with repeated listening.

I expect it will be the cause of many Labour councillor defections.

SeanT said:

It probably would have been the German century, or at least German half-century, if they hadn't overwhelmingly self-harmed, as a nation, with WW1 and then WW2.

Of course it looks so "obvious" now, in retrospect, that the USA was sneaking up on the inside lane. At the time, the two country's had quite similar populations (the USA was somewhat larger, and was experiencing mass migration, but there was also migration from Poland to Germany, and some prospect of further German territorial expansion). The USA also had a fair lead economically, both per capita, and to a larger extent, on aggregate. Yet the historical and technological momentum seemed to be with Germany.

The obsession with prestigious colonial expansion clearly didn't help Germany very much, and it is a bit of a wonder that after the devastation of the two world wars the country remains one of the most advanced and desirably liveable societies in the world, but not a great surprise that its global influence (beyond Europe) is so far reduced.

It does make me wonder when so many of the pundits talk of the upcoming "Chinese Century" that they might be backing the wrong horse. A century's a long time for things to change, and turning a backwards economy into a successful post-industrial one is pretty hard. I think you've said before that a politically united Europe would be a serious force to be reckoned with. I don't know if the demographics hold out on that, but economically and culturally the European bloc undeniably has some serious potential clout. India has a lot of people, a well-educated and globally-connected elite, 60 years of cultivating alliances around the world, and some positive demographics. I'm sure China is justly the pundits' favourite, but if I'm about in twenty years time it'd be interesting to see which way things are pointing by then.

tim said:

Grandiose said:

tim said:

Tykejohnno said:

Kris Hopkins @khopkinsmp

@Andrew4Pendle Good to hear that a Labour councillor has joined Pendle Conservatives. Milliband's weak leadership is destroying his party.

Any details?
We all know that local defections are usually due to personal differences.

Cllr Abdul Aziz, apparently. Listed as an independent here which does make local differences seem more likely.

Sounds like he went from Labour to Independent and has now gone Tory,I'm sure it's a comment on the leadership of one or the other at national level.

Looks like he could be independent councillor and a labour party member,who left the party.

Andrew Stephenson MP ✔ @Andrew4Pendle

Delighted to welcome @PendleBC Cllr Abdul Aziz to @PendleTories joining after leaving @UKLabour pic.twitter.com/per9EBjb9s

tim said:

Andy_JS said:

The polling stations in Australia have just opened in the east of the country.

Target list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dERmb2NsbmpUNmlyOHplOTNOTE9iZVE#gid=0

That's the most interesting bit,and that bit isn't interesting.

I love elections because bizarre things sometimes happen.

I think it was Lynton Crosby who was in charge of a regional election campaign in Australia about 15 years ago where one party was supposed to be winning by miles but somehow the other party managed to pull it out of the bag.

AveryLP said:

When French Marshal Philippe Pétain, future leader of the collaborationist Vichy French government who was convinced that Germany would successfully invade Britain as it had done France, sneered to Winston Churchill that in three weeks Britain would "have its neck wrung like a chicken", Churchill later replied...

Not Pétain, but General Weygand, French Commander-in-Chief.

Thank goodness for SCD, it means that I am able to make a strategic retreat to prepared positions to listen to complete Bruckner Symphonies or what ever piece I want to listen to in silence. Though access to Youtube and itunes does help...

I used to loathe that programme but it does have some advantages.

The next tranche of Conservative selections:

Bath
Plymouth Moor View
Croydon South
Newark
Tonbridge and Malling

So they are now starting to select on safe seats too.

During the Seventies I thought they were crap. Compared with nineties and noughties they were a golden age. Not as good as the eighties though, the heyday of good music and pre HIV sexual mores. Even had some politics red in tooth and claw rather than todays effete softies. Good times!

SeanT said:

foxinsoxuk said:

I get driven out of the living room by moronic talent contests most Saturdays. Unfortunately the young foxes in soxes are fans.

Much better to listen to Craig Charles soul and funk show on 6music in the kitchen!

SeanT said:

peter_from_putney said:

SeanT said:

Can we please not have any more threads on Strictly Come Dancing?

I thank and honour TSE for his noble stewardship of PB during the absence of our genial host, but, really, many of us come to PB to escape the inanity of mainstream petit bourgeois TV culture.

Ugh.

Oh I don't know, it makes a pleasant change from arguing endlessly and pointlessly about Syria.

As someone once said, you can always reach for the off button if you don't like what's on offer.

I like pleasant diversions. Clearly. I like popular culture. But the collision of naff gayness and wanky upper working classness and de haut en bas Pretend We Like This Shit Guardianista crapola that is "Strictly Come Dancing"?

Emetic.

I loathe with a homicidal passion ALL of these talent shows. They remind me of the worst aspects of being a child in the boring England of the 1970s, forced to watch shit like this - when all the adults were wife-swapping.

*cough*

*maybe some personal issues here*

Thank F for the multifarious world of the 2010s. The world is so much better than it was, in so many ways.

Last time I tried, I was unable to log in using the ipads. I don't think I was entering the wrong password as I tried various times.

valleyboy said:

Can some techie advise me why I can post here my lap top, but I cannot post on here using my ipad?

Re problems with iPads.

I think there's a vanilla/safari issue.

Logging in via chrome seems to be ok on an iPad.

@Fitilaas

"Daily Mail - 'Being nice to Iran is not a policy': Labour heavyweights slam Ed Miliband over Syria with even Tony Blair saying he got it wrong"

I've just read the article and can't understand a word. Who exactly is supporting what?

Fitalass?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re problems with iPads.

I think there's a vanilla/safari issue.

Logging in via chrome seems to be ok on an iPad.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re problems with iPads.

I think there's a vanilla/safari issue.

Logging in via chrome seems to be ok on an iPad.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re problems with iPads.

I think there's a vanilla/safari issue.

Logging in via chrome seems to be ok on an iPad.

Will try using skyfire. Thanks

GIN1138 said:

PB could be run like Strictly.

The winner at the end of the year could get the POTY glitterball!

Potty, I think by the end of the year.

I love Australian elections. They always seem much more dramatic than dreary UK one's with even sitting Prime Ministers being at risk of getting thrown out.

Will Rudd face the same fate he inflicted on John Howard? How ironic that would be.

dr_spyn said:

Thank goodness for SCD, it means that I am able to make a strategic retreat to prepared positions to listen to complete Bruckner Symphonies or what ever piece I want to listen to in silence. Though access to Youtube and itunes does help...

I used to loathe that programme but it does have some advantages.

The great thing about listening to Bruckner is that you can pop out to the kitchen, make yourself a cup of coffee, steal a biscuit or two, come back and you've missed nothing.

Andy_JS said:

ABC News live blog on Australian election day:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-07/election-day-live/4942328

Andy

What are the rules on exit polls and counting?

Will it all be silent until 11.00 tomorrow (UK time)?

"Exit poll: Labor leads London Aussie vote but swing is to Liberals":

http://www.australiantimes.co.uk/feature/labor-leads-australian-london-vote-despite-swing-to-liberals.htm

@averyLP heretic.

... good job there is a radio in the kitchen.

tim said:

AveryLP said:

dr_spyn said:

Thank goodness for SCD, it means that I am able to make a strategic retreat to prepared positions to listen to complete Bruckner Symphonies or what ever piece I want to listen to in silence. Though access to Youtube and itunes does help...

I used to loathe that programme but it does have some advantages.

The great thing about listening to Bruckner is that you can pop out to the kitchen, make yourself a cup of coffee, steal a biscuit or two, come back and you've missed nothing.

You can teach a child to read during a Yes live album

Surely that can only be done in a spare bedroom?

Last time independent Andrew Wilkie came from third place to win in Denison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Denison#Election_results