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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » … And the winners of the EUref polling race look set to be

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  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825
    malcolmg said:

    This what happens when people in the London bubble forget that people from the provinces don't really care what happens to London and its banks.

    Yes for good or bad the unthinking to****rs brought it on themselves, hoist by their own very expensive petards.
    good day for us malc

    now all we need is for youse boys to get you heads right :-)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,239
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farage is an utter, utter cock.

    An effective campaigner. A consumate, perhaps brilliant campaigner.

    But an utter, utter cock.

    it was Osborne who lost the campaign

    cock squared
    Yeah, he surely has to go? Especially after the punishment budget.
    I thought that was very clever politics but his bluff has been called and he now has to go.
    Why do you think it was a bluff? We now have nowhere to hide from the legacy of the Brown years. I disagreed with him on many of the details but Osborne was doing a pretty decent job of managing a soft landing. That is no longer viable. We will learn the meaning of austerity.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,820
    edited June 2016
    So the PB Leaver intelligentsia are presumably delighted that they have cocked a snook at EU Directive 465/SK/496 (i)/12 (Kettles), and can forge a new relationship based on free trade as part of the EU single market which will include free movement of people.

    The vast majority of those who voted Leave, meanwhile, want no free movement of people.

    I wonder how that dichotomy will manifest itself.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited June 2016

    MTimT said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    It's statements like that which lost you the referendum.

    Most people are fed up with the pointless name calling.
    Uncomfortable truths hurt.

    This referendum was won by Leave by making people scared and angry about immigration.
    Or by Remain failing to counter it. Doesn't matter now. But failing to understand the problem or address it will produce more of the same. At some point voters bite back if they feel their leaders fail to represent them. Your comment is unfortunately too much of the tone that produced this result and will produce much worse unless it changes. Brussels and Westminster need to wake up very fast.
    If you look at a map you will see that voters in my area feel just as I do. Londoners have been kidnapped from the EU against their very clear wishes.

    If the voters who are propped up by the tax transfers that voters in my area disburse to them aren't willing to engage with the views of voters in my area, voters in my area will feel a damn sight angrier with a damn sight more cause.
    Get over yourself. Clearly, you think the majority should be hijacked to pander to your superior opinions Your side lost. Time for the country to get back to life, and make the best out of our future.
    Look at a map. London didn't just decide on balance to remain, it was a landslide. It has a very different demos from the rest of the country. Why should it put up with the rest of the country foisting batshit mental policies on it?
    http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/people-want-their-country-back-from-people-who-wanted-their-countey-back/

    This may cheer you up, from one of the best news sites on the net.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Farage is an utter, utter cock.

    An effective campaigner. A consumate, perhaps brilliant campaigner.

    But an utter, utter cock.

    At last!

    Something we agree on ;)

    (this "ordinary, decent people" is extraordinary. 99% of people who voted are ordinary and decent.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,236

    @John_M and @Sandpit, thank you for responses!

    It's good to hear that the Pound is regaining against the Dollar as well. Hopefully the economic apocalypse predicted by the Remain camp won't come to fruition.

    For certain when it hits a certain level other greedy B******ds will pile in and bring it back up.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    TOPPING said:

    I'm loving the way that the worst fall in sterling ever against the dollar is being shrugged off on the site as a technical correction.

    It's risen since. It will continue to do so.

    Market traders are crack addicts with a bad gambling habit. I've been watching them for years.
    At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, then you will know that the kind of market traders you describe are very rare today. A typical market trader is someone managing the risk of your pension while the screens are turning red around him.
    With regret, no matter how sober of mind they perceive themselves to be, the behave in the manner I describe.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,239

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.
    That's a non-starter. France will never again let us join, unless we suffer an abject national humiliation in the interim.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,046
    tyson said:

    murali_s said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    You can't help yourself, can you?
    It's true though.
    A terrible night for the UK. Singlehandedly, we have marginalised ourselves and sent an economic shock through our economy that will impact as usual on the poorest and our public services.

    Populism and nationalism clearly works- tried and tested, as we know. By playing the race card, Brexit will unleash on the UK a negative and dark force that will be impossible to contain, particularly as the UK will struggle as a poorer country. Migrants will be scapegoated even further. And let's face it, this was never about European migrants. This was about Islamaphobia and racism.

    So, enjoy your victory Brexiters.

    People across this country live shitty lives - low wages, job insecurity, huge cuts in public services. The financial crash, the slow recovery and austerity have continuously smacked them round the face. They're not racists or xenophobes; they're ignored, scorned and vilified - by both the Remain and Leave elites. But Remain was defending the status quo and that included uncontrolled immigration from the EU. We're not going to get anywhere by throwing names around, however good it may make us feel. We need to understand more and to act. Leaving the EU, of course, will solve nothing. That will take political will in Westminster.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,236
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.

    I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
    Tough for SNP if they don't call one
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    I may let slip from time to time that my final forecast on Wednesday got the result right to the nearest 0.1%. As a modest chap this will not happen more than once an hour.

    Last night was amazing although not quite as exciting for as May 2015. It is with some sadness that I think that Osborne may well have to resign today. I suspect that Cameron will do the same in half an hour although I expect him to stay on until a new leader is chosen. It is a heavy price to pay for a necessary step.

    Osborne being turfed out is a net positive IMO. Rubbish at his job and has overseen a huge importation boom while domestic industries are stagnant.
    A change at the Treasury (Gove?) and a devaluation of Sterling will be undoubtedly good for British manufacturers and exporters.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Lowlander said:

    Alistair said:

    All the people proclaiming Cameron's incredible genius definitely one of the top all time prime ministers seem strangely absent today.

    Will they now accept he was a lucky general who faced two of the worst ever labour leaders and a libdem party hell bent on suicide? He confused his good fortune with some kind of brilliant political skill and has screwed himself and the country.

    Won't Scott'n'Paste be on soon to link to how twitter thinks Cam is exceptional?
    I was a soft Leaver (i.e. thought we'd probably be BOO, but it wasn't my lifelong crusade, bigger fish to fry etc), so I am astonished that Cameron's political antennae seemed to completely pack up after GE 2015.

    The deal wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either. However, he then completely oversold it and got his tone completely wrong during the campaign itself. I think his personal animus towards Boris and Farage must have affected his clarity of thought. Sad way to end.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,595
    Mandleson blaming the Tory Party for being neutral.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Sounds like Corbyn really doesn't want a general election.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,535
    Good morning, everyone.

    The octo-lemur were right to an astonishing margin of accuracy.

    Both the polling and betting markets have been horrendously wrong in two major events in the last 13 months or so.

    Genuinely surprised Leave won.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,204

    tyson said:

    murali_s said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    You can't help yourself, can you?
    It's true though.
    A terrible night for the UK. Singlehandedly, we have marginalised ourselves and sent an economic shock through our economy that will impact as usual on the poorest and our public services.

    Populism and nationalism clearly works- tried and tested, as we know. By playing the race card, Brexit will unleash on the UK a negative and dark force that will be impossible to contain, particularly as the UK will struggle as a poorer country. Migrants will be scapegoated even further. And let's face it, this was never about European migrants. This was about Islamaphobia and racism.

    So, enjoy your victory Brexiters.

    People across this country live shitty lives - low wages, job insecurity, huge cuts in public services. The financial crash, the slow recovery and austerity have continuously smacked them round the face. They're not racists or xenophobes; they're ignored, scorned and vilified - by both the Remain and Leave elites. But Remain was defending the status quo and that included uncontrolled immigration from the EU. We're not going to get anywhere by throwing names around, however good it may make us feel. We need to understand more and to act. Leaving the EU, of course, will solve nothing. That will take political will in Westminster.

    Southam you continue to astound with your fair mindedness and level headedness. If others achieve half your level of acceptance of the results and what it truly says about the state of our social contract we will all benefit.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited June 2016
    Amusing to think that this all began with Osborne's Omni-shambles budget in 2012 and the pasty tax. This caused the surge to UKIP that Cameron had to deflect with the referendum promise at the GE.

    It was pastys wot won it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,239
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    That's why the royals used to ensure sufficient interbreeding across Europe. One the lower orders of the aristocracy succumb to nationalism bad things happen.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,773
    Hammond: First objective is to stabilise the situation.

    Hint that Cameron won't be going straight away.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,820
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farage is an utter, utter cock.

    An effective campaigner. A consumate, perhaps brilliant campaigner.

    But an utter, utter cock.

    At last!

    Something we agree on ;)

    (this "ordinary, decent people" is extraordinary. 99% of people who voted are ordinary and decent.)
    :smile:

    And indeed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    FAir play to Dimbelby, he's grilling Remainers on all of Cameron's apocalypse scenarios.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.
    That's a non-starter. France will never again let us join, unless we suffer an abject national humiliation in the interim.
    There's that too. Plus the fact people were sick of this referendum pretty quickly so calling for another one would hardly be appetising.

    I cant see a major politician or party running on a "Rejoin EU" ticket. The Lib Dems in particular are missing a trick if they don't take the opportunity for a policy platform refresh.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited June 2016
    Donald Tusk now speaking - in English.
    Calls for "wider reflection" within the EU nations.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.
    That's a non-starter. France will never again let us join, unless we suffer an abject national humiliation in the interim.
    I think it's France that will now be suffering the abject humiliation, theyre now Germany's bitch
    and they know it.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Donald Tusk on Sky News.
  • Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn doesn't seem too bothered by the result. Just wittering on in his usual affable way. Most of the BBC presenters seem more upset than he is.

    That's because he should see this as a great opportunity to be the next (but one) Prime Minister. By being lukewarm in the Referendum he distanced himself from either result. Now we have one that is expected by most to hit people financially before the next election. (You can argue the alternative but it isn't how I see it developing). Who will people blame for their pension and saving losses, answer the Conservatives. So it doesn't matter that certain people think he's rubbish, he'll be looked on as being less rubbish than the 'last lot' in four years time.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    tlg86 said:

    Mandleson blaming the Tory Party for being neutral.

    Madleson should blame Mandelson for being a ****
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,820

    TOPPING said:

    I'm loving the way that the worst fall in sterling ever against the dollar is being shrugged off on the site as a technical correction.

    It's risen since. It will continue to do so.

    Market traders are crack addicts with a bad gambling habit. I've been watching them for years.
    At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, then you will know that the kind of market traders you describe are very rare today. A typical market trader is someone managing the risk of your pension while the screens are turning red around him.
    With regret, no matter how sober of mind they perceive themselves to be, the behave in the manner I describe.
    Nope, it's a comfortable stereotype but it ain't so. But I see we each have our views which we will have to stick with.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,028
    Election late October this year or spring next year?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    The results point to a dying Labour party. Who else is there. We need new parties
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    tlg86 said:

    Mandleson blaming the Tory Party for being neutral.

    Would this be the former MP for Hartlepool.

    The same Hartlepool that just voted LEAVE by 69.5% one of the highest in the country ?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Robert Peston ‏@Peston 20 secs20 seconds ago

    The signs are that @David_Cameron will announce his departure after 8, & presumably that means @George_Osborne has to go too.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.

    Moreover while we are out, the EU will either be centralising or falling apart (or both!), neither of which makes rejoining more attractive.
    Depends on the extent to which our economy becomes a basket cases. We may see buyers' remorse very quickly:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,236

    Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    Come on. If this referendum says one thing (there are many) it's that the metropolitan elites should stop being so detached and sneering towards 'ordinary' people. The people have spoken. It's over. Now to fashion our future.
    It's not the metropolitan elites. It's the metropolis. The whole of inner London favoured Remain by 2:1 or more.

    If the part of the country that keeps the rest of the country afloat financially is going to be sabotaged by the country mice, there is going to have to be a new settlement giving London more autonomy and more control over its own finances.
    It is worth turmoil just for those smug to****s getting their comeuppance, the fact you still come out with this puerile urine is testament to that.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825
    TOPPING said:

    So the PB Leaver intelligentsia are presumably delighted that they have cocked a snook at EU Directive 465/SK/496 (i)/12 (Kettles), and can forge a new relationship based on free trade as part of the EU single market which will include free movement of people.

    The vast majority of those who voted Leave, meanwhile, want no free movement of people.

    I wonder how that dichotomy will manifest itself.

    of give us the weeked for a piss up.

    Work starts on Monday.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    WTF is Donald Tusk trying to solidify the UK vote? He's stressing "EU Law" will continue to apply to the UK. This is mental.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,773
    £1 = $1.37

    Only 4 cents lower than 14th June.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    murali_s said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    You can't help yourself, can you?
    It's true though.
    A terrible night for the UK. Singlehandedly, we have marginalised ourselves and sent an economic shock through our economy that will impact as usual on the poorest and our public services.

    Populism and nationalism clearly works- tried and tested, as we know. By playing the race card, Brexit will unleash on the UK a negative and dark force that will be impossible to contain, particularly as the UK will struggle as a poorer country. Migrants will be scapegoated even further. And let's face it, this was never about European migrants. This was about Islamaphobia and racism.

    So, enjoy your victory Brexiters.

    People across this country live shitty lives - low wages, job insecurity, huge cuts in public services. The financial crash, the slow recovery and austerity have continuously smacked them round the face. They're not racists or xenophobes; they're ignored, scorned and vilified - by both the Remain and Leave elites. But Remain was defending the status quo and that included uncontrolled immigration from the EU. We're not going to get anywhere by throwing names around, however good it may make us feel. We need to understand more and to act. Leaving the EU, of course, will solve nothing. That will take political will in Westminster.

    Southam you continue to astound with your fair mindedness and level headedness. If others achieve half your level of acceptance of the results and what it truly says about the state of our social contract we will all benefit.
    He makes the point, well in my view, that the people don't all live in large villas or swanky properties, and have real concerns that need addressing. Calling the electorate names isn't the most constructive way of so doing.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    What a night!

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,539

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Graveyards are full of indispensible people

    I'm sure the UK will still function with or without you
    Nice.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,535
    Mr. Mortimer, I agree, Mr. Observer's been very even-handed.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825
    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.
    That's a non-starter. France will never again let us join, unless we suffer an abject national humiliation in the interim.
    France may be having their own referendum on EU membership.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    PBers, do you think Brexit will lead to a significant interest rate rise (I hope not)?

    No. It will leave to more QE and therefore asset price inflation.

    Great news for the financial elite.

    Meh. I don't like QE as a policy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,820

    TOPPING said:

    So the PB Leaver intelligentsia are presumably delighted that they have cocked a snook at EU Directive 465/SK/496 (i)/12 (Kettles), and can forge a new relationship based on free trade as part of the EU single market which will include free movement of people.

    The vast majority of those who voted Leave, meanwhile, want no free movement of people.

    I wonder how that dichotomy will manifest itself.

    of give us the weeked for a piss up.

    Work starts on Monday.
    LOL. Enjoy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,239

    Gadfly said:

    Farron in blame mode

    Farron has known how the wind was blowing for some time. He has been getting hammered by his constituents on the streets with W&L, who have been more than happy to approach him to argue about the subject, and whilst there have have been a few 'In' signs posted within the constituency, the absence of these in most of the usual LibDem sites has been very telling.
    There will have to be a big policy rethink for the LD’s. Europhilia has been a major plank for a long while.
    Maybe they should take a look at the policies of the residual Liberal Party.
    No sign of that from Mr Farron this morning.
    Why? It's a policy 48% of the population support. Plenty of votes in being the pro-Europe party.
    Post-Brexit campaigning to rejoin the EU means explicitly that the UK must adopt the euro. That will get far less than 48% of the vote.
    That's a non-starter. France will never again let us join, unless we suffer an abject national humiliation in the interim.
    I think it's France that will now be suffering the abject humiliation, theyre now Germany's bitch
    and they know it.
    They're not ready to roll over yet... They have the nukes, the Security Council seat, the historic legitimacy as a nation state.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.

    Indeed, and Germany will have to pay more into the EU as we Leave. There is a real price to pay for them.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,261
    Lowlander said:

    WTF is Donald Tusk trying to solidify the UK vote? He's stressing "EU Law" will continue to apply to the UK. This is mental.

    No - he is stating the law until we leave - he did come over as very uncompromising
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,261
    Corbyn getting snappy on Sky - he has to go
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    You're not persuading me. Sometimes people are best served by pointing out that they've made a really bad decision and letting them work that out in their own sweet time. This is a disaster that true believers will need to work out how they wish to mitigate.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Jonathan said:

    The results point to a dying Labour party. Who else is there. We need new parties

    The problem is the word Labour or the word party.

    The biggest problem is an organisation that regards most of its voters as nasty w*nkers, who must only be spoken to not listened to.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Alastair – the Scots have the option to go independent in Europe, and would be mad not to take it.

    I'm not sure what options we have here. Sadiq should call for greater powers and maintenance of free movement from London to the EU. Dunno. It's a fucked up situation on a sad, sad, sad day.
  • StarfallStarfall Posts: 78

    MTimT said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    It's statements like that which lost you the referendum.

    Most people are fed up with the pointless name calling.
    Uncomfortable truths hurt.

    This referendum was won by Leave by making people scared and angry about immigration.
    Or by Remain failing to counter it. Doesn't matter now. But failing to understand the problem or address it will produce more of the same. At some point voters bite back if they feel their leaders fail to represent them. Your comment is unfortunately too much of the tone that produced this result and will produce much worse unless it changes. Brussels and Westminster need to wake up very fast.
    If you look at a map you will see that voters in my area feel just as I do. Londoners have been kidnapped from the EU against their very clear wishes.

    If the voters who are propped up by the tax transfers that voters in my area disburse to them aren't willing to engage with the views of voters in my area, voters in my area will feel a damn sight angrier with a damn sight more cause.
    Get over yourself. Clearly, you think the majority should be hijacked to pander to your superior opinions Your side lost. Time for the country to get back to life, and make the best out of our future.
    Look at a map. London didn't just decide on balance to remain, it was a landslide. It has a very different demos from the rest of the country. Why should it put up with the rest of the country foisting batshit mental policies on it?
    This is the sort of mentality that will turn us pro-Europeans into pariahs. We nust be honest. Our side failed to make a positive case for European cooperation for years, we failed to correct the failures of the EU, and, in too many cases, we treated the people who disagreed with us with ridicule and contempt. We brought this upon ourselves.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    MikeL said:

    £1 = $1.37

    Only 4 cents lower than 14th June.

    Quite. The doom mongers need to understand how these things work.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,417
    What is Corbyn's point about Article 50 being invoked now? Surely it is better to wait for a month or so (at least) until the dust settles? The man is incomprehensible.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Jeremy Corbyn is a disgrace. Him and his fellow travellers who have taken over the party have to take their share of the blame for this shambles.
  • surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,236
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.

    I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
    How have they not? People will vote for some level of economic turmoil, if they think it is acceptable. They might now have changed their minds on how much they are willing to accept.
    Oil prices are still low, Barnett still shovels billions into Scotland which makes free university and free prescriptions possible and Scotland has been in a union for 300 years with the UK not 40, the ties are much deeper. The unionist argument carries a positive message, the EU argument was "in is less shit than out". Even the name of the In campaign was slightly patronising, "stronger in" sends a message that these people believe the UK to be a weak country without the EU.

    Personally I'm in favour of Scottish independence, I think they deserve home rule and I'd like for them to achieve that goal. I just don't think being in or out of the EU makes a difference, especially given that Scotland would have been out if they voted for independence in 2014.

    The basic questions over currency and schengen haven't been answered either. Without the UK in the EU, there is no precedent for a full opt out of the Denmark are still in ERM II and Sweden, on a theoretical basis, have to join at some point.
    You continue to show your ignorance of Scotland. Barnett gives no such thing , flow is all one way and it ain't north for sure.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,440

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
    You do realise we have to pay our membership dues until we formally leave? ;)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825

    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.

    Indeed, and Germany will have to pay more into the EU as we Leave. There is a real price to pay for them.

    I think this is the interesting bit. Germany nowhas it's European empire unopposed and if there's one thing I can see coming is they lack the flexibility to run it. They will drive it to destruction and then the old Europe will re-emerge.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.

    I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
    Tough for SNP if they don't call one
    they've got to call one now, while the whole idea of project fear is discredited, and the fear of changing the status quo has been rejected. They won't lose a referendum on economics.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Right, Westminster is not fit for purpose. The first step is urgent reform.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    £100m per week isn't £350m per day...
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,081
    Jobabob said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is a disgrace. Him and his fellow travellers who have taken over the party have to take their share of the blame for this shambles.

    Indeed - Corbyn's shelf life cannot be long now. Where was the Labour Party in this campaign?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,239

    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.

    Indeed, and Germany will have to pay more into the EU as we Leave. There is a real price to pay for them.

    I think this is the interesting bit. Germany nowhas it's European empire unopposed and if there's one thing I can see coming is they lack the flexibility to run it. They will drive it to destruction and then the old Europe will re-emerge.
    Do you see that as a good outcome? A foreign policy success for Britain?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    The people of Britain are perfectly capable of being contradictory and of changing their minds!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
    Wonder where this week's hospital gets built.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    GIN1138 said:

    TOPPING said:

    God Jezza really really is not up to the job of anything.

    He sounds pathetic.

    Jezza was LEAVE for 40 years. And then when we actually do LEAVE he changes to REMAIN????
    And he wonders why he's so unpopular in his own party.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    The people of Britain are perfectly capable of being contradictory and of changing their minds!
    And your point is?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,820

    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.

    Indeed, and Germany will have to pay more into the EU as we Leave. There is a real price to pay for them.

    I think this is the interesting bit. Germany nowhas it's European empire unopposed and if there's one thing I can see coming is they lack the flexibility to run it. They will drive it to destruction and then the old Europe will re-emerge.
    If only they had, oh I don't know, a strong, vibrant, independent, thoughtful country as a member, who could help them shape the EU in a positive and forward-looking way.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,825

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    You're not persuading me. Sometimes people are best served by pointing out that they've made a really bad decision and letting them work that out in their own sweet time. This is a disaster that true believers will need to work out how they wish to mitigate.
    when it was pointed out name calling, scaremongering and belittling peoples views was a bad decision on your part you ploughed on regardless, I suppose youve got sweet time to work that out now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,973

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    You're not persuading me. Sometimes people are best served by pointing out that they've made a really bad decision and letting them work that out in their own sweet time. This is a disaster that true believers will need to work out how they wish to mitigate.
    This diminishes you.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Kate Hoey: "we've been in touch with campaigns in other countries.."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,440
    FTSE open down 9%
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
    and it was £100m, but let's not worry about what people said.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gove-pledges-extra-100m-for-the-nhs-after-brexit-cxlgfx92j
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    TOPPING said:

    Merkel is one of the big losers in this, her intransigence has put the EU in this position.

    Indeed, and Germany will have to pay more into the EU as we Leave. There is a real price to pay for them.

    I think this is the interesting bit. Germany nowhas it's European empire unopposed and if there's one thing I can see coming is they lack the flexibility to run it. They will drive it to destruction and then the old Europe will re-emerge.
    If only they had, oh I don't know, a strong, vibrant, independent, thoughtful country as a member, who could help them shape the EU in a positive and forward-looking way.
    It's been tried. It failed. No one was listening.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,727

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
    Loaded on the back of a unicorn!
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.

    I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
    Tough for SNP if they don't call one
    they've got to call one now, while the whole idea of project fear is discredited, and the fear of changing the status quo has been rejected. They won't lose a referendum on economics.
    No, but they'd have to govern a Scotland using the euro with greek levels of unemployment
  • HappyMcFluffyHappyMcFluffy Posts: 53
    edited June 2016
    @AlastairMeeks - I think I agree that it's primarily for the leave side to come up with a plan and sort out this mess. And, like you, I'm in a position to leave the UK, at least for a while - and I might well be doing so. But until then, I'm going to keep on fighting for the 48% that didn't vote out, to try and make the best we can of this bad situation. I don't blame you for not wanting to do that, but perhaps consider it - at least while you're still here!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Starfall said:

    MTimT said:

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/746212545262850048

    Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.

    It's statements like that which lost you the referendum.

    Most people are fed up with the pointless name calling.
    Uncomfortable truths hurt.

    This referendum was won by Leave by making people scared and angry about immigration.
    Or by Remain failing to counter it. Doesn't matter now. But failing to understand the problem or address it will produce more of the same. At some point voters bite back if they feel their leaders fail to represent them. Your comment is unfortunately too much of the tone that produced this result and will produce much worse unless it changes. Brussels and Westminster need to wake up very fast.
    If you look at a map you will see that voters in my area feel just as I do. Londoners have been kidnapped from the EU against their very clear wishes.

    If the voters who are propped up by the tax transfers that voters in my area disburse to them aren't willing to engage with the views of voters in my area, voters in my area will feel a damn sight angrier with a damn sight more cause.
    Get over yourself. Clearly, you think the majority should be hijacked to pander to your superior opinions Your side lost. Time for the country to get back to life, and make the best out of our future.
    Look at a map. London didn't just decide on balance to remain, it was a landslide. It has a very different demos from the rest of the country. Why should it put up with the rest of the country foisting batshit mental policies on it?
    This is the sort of mentality that will turn us pro-Europeans into pariahs. We nust be honest. Our side failed to make a positive case for European cooperation for years, we failed to correct the failures of the EU, and, in too many cases, we treated the people who disagreed with us with ridicule and contempt. We brought this upon ourselves.
    Far better to campaign for an EEA/EFTA type deal that looks as much like the EU as possible.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    RobD said:

    FTSE open down 9%

    It'll be up at least 4% by end of play compared to now.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    What is Corbyn's point about Article 50 being invoked now? Surely it is better to wait for a month or so (at least) until the dust settles? The man is incomprehensible.

    The French and Germans might quite like us to hang fire for a while. It's election season.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    £100m per week isn't £350m per day...
    The battle bus clearly stated the £350m figure.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,539

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    You're not persuading me. Sometimes people are best served by pointing out that they've made a really bad decision and letting them work that out in their own sweet time. This is a disaster that true believers will need to work out how they wish to mitigate.
    when it was pointed out name calling, scaremongering and belittling peoples views was a bad decision on your part you ploughed on regardless, I suppose youve got sweet time to work that out now.
    It should be pointed out that there was plenty of name calling, scaremongering and belittling of peoples' views from leavers, both in the campaigns and on here.

    16 million people will be disappointed this morning. Many people will be worried and scared for the future.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,417
    RobD said:

    FTSE open down 9%

    And still no Cameron or Carney.

    Speak for Britain!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,440
    When is Cam going to sooth the markets?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,908
    Anybody else feeling "wired" after an hours sleep and all night coffee? :open_mouth:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.

    Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.

    Because I believe you are a democrat and a patriot.

    Everyone has a duty to serve the public will - we should all do our best to seek the best outcome for the country within the framework of what the people have decided

    This morning I'm nervous, but excited.
    I respect the referendum decision.

    I see no reason at all why I should help implement a decision that I believe to be mad and to have been engineered through disgraceful tactics. Those that were hellbent on this crazy course of action can get on with it, but I shall lean against a wall watching their exertions.
    Because your duty to the country should rank higher than your personal views.

    To serve is to serve. You don't get to choose.
    I don't serve bad causes.

    I look forward to watching the Farewell Symphony of posters as they one by one drop off the Brexit bandwagon when confronted with the reality of what it means.
    You're not serving a "cause".

    You're serving the popular will of the British people.
    You're not persuading me. Sometimes people are best served by pointing out that they've made a really bad decision and letting them work that out in their own sweet time. This is a disaster that true believers will need to work out how they wish to mitigate.
    This diminishes you.
    I can live with myself, having not fallen enthusiastically behind a mendacious campaign that majored on pandering to xenophobia.

    I couldn't live with myself if after the campaign was over I enabled those mendacious panderers to xenophobes to achieve their aims.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    No, that's the weekly figure. It doesn't get its second £350m until next Friday.
    I will happily accept that. Somehow I think the NHS will face cuts.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    £100m per week isn't £350m per day...
    The battle bus clearly stated the £350m figure.
    Yes, it said £350m would be saved, our gross payment to the EU, it didn't say all of that would be spent on the NHS, the most any Leaver said was £100m per week.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Today is the first day when the NHS will get another £350m. Tomorrow too and the day after...

    £100m per week isn't £350m per day...
    The battle bus clearly stated the £350m figure.
    We're still in the EU. Please try and remember that. The UK does not abrogate treaties unilaterally, and all our current obligations, including financial ones, still apply. Nothing has changed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,535
    Mr. Starfall, if Remain had adopted your tone and approach, I think they would've won handily.

    It would be interesting to try and analyse how votes were won and lost based on substance, and style.

    I suspect Cameron won't be referring to 'Little England' today.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.

    I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
    Tough for SNP if they don't call one
    they've got to call one now, while the whole idea of project fear is discredited, and the fear of changing the status quo has been rejected. They won't lose a referendum on economics.
    They haven't got to call one. Scotland voted to stay in Britain, and they also deprived the SNP of its majority in Holyrood last month. Why should part of Britain get to decide whether or not it stays in the EU? Should Cambridge decide too? Not all SNP voters want independence. There is no genuine mandate for another independence referendum. The SNP is so full of it that I would prefer a Lab-LibDem-Con coalition in Holyrood.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,607
    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody else feeling "wired" after an hours sleep and all night coffee? :open_mouth:

    An eerie silence on the tube this morning like the nation has woken with a massive hangover!
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    GIN1138 said:

    Anybody else feeling "wired" after an hours sleep and all night coffee? :open_mouth:

    Yes.
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