politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why those opposed to the Tories should hope that June 23rd
Comments
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This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....0 -
Fraser isn't impressed with George
Great short podcast http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/the-deceptions-behind-george-osbornes-brexit-report/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter0 -
Mr. Rottenborough, it's true that Hell is other people at breakfast.0
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the indyref had 3 years of passion behind itTheScreamingEagles said:
In GEs DK's are DNVsRobD said:
I would have thought DKs will break more towards status quo.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/722098420807245825RobD said:
What were the values with DKs?Sean_F said:ICM phone poll Con 38%, Lab 33%, UKIP 13%. Remain 54%, Leave 46%.
ICM online poll Con 36%, Lab 31%, UKIP 16. Remain 50%, Leave 50%.
But in the Indyref they got out and backed status quo.
eu ref has three month of piss off and dont annoy me0 -
Don;t EU want me baby....Indigo said:
EU are having a laugh!TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup.Tissue_Price said:
So you're saying that if Leave wins it'll be a case of "I'll Be Missing EU"?TheScreamingEagles said:
The piece I was planning to run yesterday was headlined 'Never Gonna Give EU Up - Why it might be in the best interests of the Tory Party for Remain to win'Tissue_Price said:
One for TSE I reckon - Never Gonna Give EU UpTissue_Price said:This video changes everything: voteleave.co.uk - surpassing the Ukippers, imo
I've also got 'Stuck In The Middle With EU' lined up0 -
Last month's ICM poll was a real outlier, they said as much.taffys said:
This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....
This is more of a reversion to mean.0 -
Honestly, if Leave want to win, they should say 'Brexit = Scottish Independence'Alanbrooke said:
the indyref had 3 years of passion behind itTheScreamingEagles said:
In GEs DK's are DNVsRobD said:
I would have thought DKs will break more towards status quo.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/722098420807245825RobD said:
What were the values with DKs?Sean_F said:ICM phone poll Con 38%, Lab 33%, UKIP 13%. Remain 54%, Leave 46%.
ICM online poll Con 36%, Lab 31%, UKIP 16. Remain 50%, Leave 50%.
But in the Indyref they got out and backed status quo.
eu ref has three month of piss off and dont annoy me
Landslide for Leave in England and Wales and they get 45% in Scotland too.0 -
True but the tory war has intensified markedly since then. It is still an interesting result.TheScreamingEagles said:
Last month's ICM poll was a real outlier, they said as much.taffys said:
This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....
This is more of a reversion to mean.0 -
I assume Osborne will be hoping for the worst data possible. No doubt he is hoping his exaggerated scaremongering will hit some of the confidence indicators as well.taffys said:The Dow Jones touched 18,000 today, highest since last July.
If the global economy doom and gloom is not as bad as expected, I wonder how that will play into the debate for the next two months.0 -
National - NBC/WSJ
Clinton 50 .. Sanders 48
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-s-national-lead-down-two-points-n557671?cid=sm_tw
....................................................
New York - Gravis Marketing/ANN
Trump 57 .. Kasich 22 .. Cruz 20
Clinton 53 .. Sanders 47
http://www.oann.com/pollny/0 -
Sure. Look, I'm going to be a little bit rude, and suggest that where you are now seems like some sort of love-in. Warm and cosy it may be, but practical it isn't.NickPalmer said:
I try, though I feel a bit more free these days. I don't think I'm being especially hysterical or anything - just more left-wing and less willing to settle for quarter-measures than I used to be.Omnium said:
Oh, I dunno. Much like you used to be really - refreshingly straightforwards. Grounded.NickPalmer said:
What is your definition of rational?Omnium said:
Why, NP, have you gone from a rational sort of person to a lesser sort?
New polls (54-46 Remain by phone, 50-50 online) and an interesting discussion here:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/apr/18/eu-referendum-osborne-treasury-brexit-will-cost-families-4300-a-year-politics-live
By implication the figures for party allegiance have been heavily tweaked to allow for the sample and the turnout assumptions. I can't quite make out from the report whether the same tweaks were made for the Europe question, which is pretty crucial. If as the quotes suggest they've just taken a pro-Labour phone sample and applied it untweaked for the EU question, that's very silly and casts seriuos doubt on the phone outcome. But why would they do that? Can others make sense of it?
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I don't have a TV and I'm rather curious to know whether the inverted commas translate into speech patterns/mannerisms.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Rottenborough, not all. Some of us are tutting at the BBC's chronic abuse of inverted commas, and admiring the quotes of Karl Popper.
How do the verbal reports' headlines compare with the equivalent textual headlines, has anyone noticed?0 -
I'm waiting for the Ipsos Mori that might be out this week.taffys said:
True but the tory war has intensified markedly since then. It is still an interesting result.TheScreamingEagles said:
Last month's ICM poll was a real outlier, they said as much.taffys said:
This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....
This is more of a reversion to mean.
I reckon that'll bring some good news for Labour, and Corbyn extending his lead over Cameron on the leadership ratings front.0 -
Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.0
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Refreshing originality!TheScreamingEagles said:
Prime Minister Matt Hancock is still basking in his landslide general election landslide victory in 2020.Omnium said:Wind the clock forwards 5 years - what does 2021 look like politically?
I have no clue whatsoever. I don't think it's Corbyn, I don't think it's Boris.
TSE, I presume you have no affection or inclination towards the Eagles?
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@Morris_Dancer "disapproves" of overuse of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.
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Mr. Meeks, and people who confuse speech marks for inverted commas
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Crystal Palace? Nah, they broke my heart in 1990 in that Semi final.Omnium said:
Refreshing originality!TheScreamingEagles said:
Prime Minister Matt Hancock is still basking in his landslide general election landslide victory in 2020.Omnium said:Wind the clock forwards 5 years - what does 2021 look like politically?
I have no clue whatsoever. I don't think it's Corbyn, I don't think it's Boris.
TSE, I presume you have no affection or inclination towards the Eagles?
My Eagles moniker is from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division
And this incident in particular
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe0 -
I think both campaigns are based on fear to a large part. Fear, holding onto what we have, laziness, lack of courage, unwillingness to take risks are far far more prevalent than the opposite. Only when things have got really bad do people (and this is obviously a generalisation) try something new or different.rottenborough said:
If the tables were reversed every strategist in Leave.eu would running a Project Fear campaign. Indeed, they are attempting to, with fear of migration.Cyclefree said:
One of my favourite quotes is by Edmund Burke:-NickPalmer said:
What is your definition of rational?Omnium said:
Why, NP, have you gone from a rational sort of person to a lesser sort?
"Politics ought to be adjusted not to human reasonings but to human nature, of which reason is but a part and by no means the greatest part."
We like to think of ourselves as rational but emotion plays a far greater part in our decision making than most of us are prepared to admit.
Hence the Remain campaign.
"No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear."0 -
Can we expect a new thread from Mike Smithson any time soon proclaiming the excellent news for the Tories that ICM show them as having retaken a 5% lead over Labour - and how impressively this should be viewed, having regard to their not inconsiderable difficulties of late?TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
No? ....... Thought not!
This news does rather negate the thrust of this thread however. Chuckle.0 -
Actually I was worried about your alliances to Angela and Maria. The sisters horrid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Crystal Palace? Nah, they broke my heart in 1990 in that Semi final.Omnium said:
Refreshing originality!TheScreamingEagles said:
Prime Minister Matt Hancock is still basking in his landslide general election landslide victory in 2020.Omnium said:Wind the clock forwards 5 years - what does 2021 look like politically?
I have no clue whatsoever. I don't think it's Corbyn, I don't think it's Boris.
TSE, I presume you have no affection or inclination towards the Eagles?
My Eagles moniker is from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division
And this incident in particular
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe
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I'm more fascinated by the posters at the top of the thread.Cyclefree said:
I think both campaigns are based on fear to a large part. Fear, holding onto what we have, laziness, lack of courage, unwillingness to take risks are far far more prevalent than the opposite. Only when things have got really bad do people (and this is obviously a generalisation) try something new or different.rottenborough said:
If the tables were reversed every strategist in Leave.eu would running a Project Fear campaign. Indeed, they are attempting to, with fear of migration.Cyclefree said:
One of my favourite quotes is by Edmund Burke:-NickPalmer said:
What is your definition of rational?Omnium said:
Why, NP, have you gone from a rational sort of person to a lesser sort?
"Politics ought to be adjusted not to human reasonings but to human nature, of which reason is but a part and by no means the greatest part."
We like to think of ourselves as rational but emotion plays a far greater part in our decision making than most of us are prepared to admit.
Hence the Remain campaign.
"No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear."
Given these are cross party campaigns, to have permitted the theme of "stinking Tory bastards" sort of leaves me wondering what on earth was going through the heads of the Conservatives on the panel.
It's trashing their reputation and since it's confrontational simply means making up with the other side of Conservatism gets that bit more difficult.
Not clever0 -
I can just hear you saying that!AlastairMeeks said:
@Morris_Dancer "disapproves" of overuse of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.
(I disapprove of exclamation marks, usually.)0 -
Please, I do have some standards, granted they are lower than everybody else's, but I do have some.Omnium said:
Actually I was worried about your alliances to Angela and Maria. The sisters horrid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Crystal Palace? Nah, they broke my heart in 1990 in that Semi final.Omnium said:
Refreshing originality!TheScreamingEagles said:
Prime Minister Matt Hancock is still basking in his landslide general election landslide victory in 2020.Omnium said:Wind the clock forwards 5 years - what does 2021 look like politically?
I have no clue whatsoever. I don't think it's Corbyn, I don't think it's Boris.
TSE, I presume you have no affection or inclination towards the Eagles?
My Eagles moniker is from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division
And this incident in particular
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe0 -
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.0 -
Where do you stand on interrobangs?!AnneJGP said:AlastairMeeks said:
@Morris_Dancer "disapproves" of overuse of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.
(I disapprove of exclamation marks, usually.)
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What it shows is the complete and utter uselessness of the Labour party. The Tories can literally do whatever they want and it will make no difference. Given the choice between a government whose own ministers do not believe it can be trusted on the economy and a Labour party run by Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell et al, the public chooses the Blues. That's how bad things are for labour. And it is bad for the country too, as the government's recent performance demonstrates.taffys said:
True but the tory war has intensified markedly since then. It is still an interesting result.TheScreamingEagles said:
Last month's ICM poll was a real outlier, they said as much.taffys said:
This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....
This is more of a reversion to mean.
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Tories polling a shade higher than the GE.FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
Dave and George backing Remain really has cost the Tory Party. Ahem.0 -
Curmudgeon alertFrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
There are twitter feeds there aren't unbearable?0 -
I believe the reason for the overuse of inverted is commas is because the BBC are told to put anything that is somebodies statement and / or not a statement that is 100% known to be a fact e.g 'Drone' hits BA plane: Police investigate Heathrow incidentAnneJGP said:
I can just hear you saying that!AlastairMeeks said:
@Morris_Dancer "disapproves" of overuse of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.
(I disapprove of exclamation marks, usually.)0 -
Be all the grateful poor getting their national living wage for the first time....FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.0 -
If you set yourself up within a "safe space" zone ;-)kle4 said:
Curmudgeon alertFrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
There are twitter feeds there aren't unbearable?0 -
But according to the Guardian they all lost their free lunch breaks.MarqueeMark said:
Be all the grateful poor getting their national living wage for the first time....FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.0 -
I confess, it seemed an unlikely alliance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please, I do have some standards, granted they are lower than everybody else's, but I do have some.Omnium said:
Actually I was worried about your alliances to Angela and Maria. The sisters horrid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Crystal Palace? Nah, they broke my heart in 1990 in that Semi final.Omnium said:
Refreshing originality!TheScreamingEagles said:
Prime Minister Matt Hancock is still basking in his landslide general election landslide victory in 2020.Omnium said:Wind the clock forwards 5 years - what does 2021 look like politically?
I have no clue whatsoever. I don't think it's Corbyn, I don't think it's Boris.
TSE, I presume you have no affection or inclination towards the Eagles?
My Eagles moniker is from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division
And this incident in particular
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe
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If only it was 2016, and a whole 4 years until the next General Election to get this out of the way...
meanwhile, I have my tweet needs met for the period to June something or other.
alexmassie
@alexmassie
How dare the government have a view! How dare the government make the case for that view! Outrageous. Meanwhile, have a unicorn.
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I'm surprised you say that, Cameron should be in the 40s given the quality of opposition.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tories polling a shade higher than the GE.FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
Dave and George backing Remain really has cost the Tory Party. Ahem.0 -
They are making sure they don't have mahoosive leads that might make Labour topple Corbyn.Alanbrooke said:
I'm surprised you say that, Cameron should be in the 40s given the quality of opposition.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tories polling a shade higher than the GE.FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
Dave and George backing Remain really has cost the Tory Party. Ahem.
George Osborne is a top political strategist, he knows what he's doing.
And on that bombshell, I shall depart for the evening.0 -
Yeah.....FrancisUrquhart said:
But according to the Guardian they all lost their free lunch breaks.MarqueeMark said:
Be all the grateful poor getting their national living wage for the first time....FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
They really don't so politics, do they, The Guardian?0 -
As I thought, the idea has gained currency that Dave was above board in his financial affairs but was the victim of a spiteful and hypocritical witch hunt. Leave will be well advised to turn their fire from Dave. Simply put: people always like him more than they do his enemies.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tories polling a shade higher than the GE.FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
Dave and George backing Remain really has cost the Tory Party. Ahem.0 -
I refer you to my avatar to debunk such an insult... this is the paper of St. Toynbee.MarqueeMark said:
Yeah.....FrancisUrquhart said:
But according to the Guardian they all lost their free lunch breaks.MarqueeMark said:
Be all the grateful poor getting their national living wage for the first time....FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation....All the stuff on Cameron and Georgie Porgie's tax returns went well then. Imagine if they had handled it well!TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
My twitter feed is going to be unbearable.
They really don't so politics, do they, The Guardian?0 -
In the dark, until you posted the word. Thanks for informing me.kle4 said:
Where do you stand on interrobangs?!AnneJGP said:AlastairMeeks said:
@Morris_Dancer "disapproves" of overuse of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, don't watch too much TV news, but I don't think the swathes of inverted commas affect BBC emphasis on the box.
(I disapprove of exclamation marks, usually.)
In fact, these things are helpful in conveying the intended feeling behind text, rather like emoticons.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, hmm. Cheers for that.0
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Yes that was my reaction, but that is the guidance they get. So in addition to using it to quote individuals / reports, a lot of daily news is without 100% certainty, it results in a crazy out of inverted commas.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, hmm. Cheers for that.
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On interrobangs: forget if it were a beta-reader or editor but when I used one somewhere I got asked to choose either an exclamation or a question mark.0
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Test:0
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MD, or others -
I've recently returned from Rome, and I'd like to find a really detailed reconstruction of the Palatine hill. My Oxford archeological guidebook to the city has rather whetted my appetite.
Does anyone know of a detailed and well researched such resource?
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Mr. Omnium, hmm. Offhand, no (that sort of thing isn't quite my area). I shall have a quick perusal.
[Incidentally, if you're after day-to-day stuff then there's one I've been meaning to get for ages called Ancient Rome on X Denarii a Day, or suchlike].0 -
Mr. Omnium, this DVD comes out in 10 days:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rome-Reconstructed-Maria-Antonietta-Lozzi/dp/1861188358/
[Also, the other book is Five Denarii a Day. Don't own it myself, but it's by Philip Matyszak and I have a few of his books, and rather like them].0 -
Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
Most polls suggest that the Conservatives' standing has been badly damaged over the past six weeks, but Labour are still stuck in the low thirties.taffys said:
This poll seems to suggest tories can continue to tear each other to shreds, the public doesn;t really seem to mind that much. At least for now.TheScreamingEagles said:ICM Phone poll (changes in bracket)
Con 38 (+2)
Lab 33 (-3)
LD 7 (-1)
UKIP 13 (+2)
Greens 3 (nc)
As for labour....well....0 -
Don't worry MD if there's nothing that you know which immediately leaps out. x=5 by the way. On my list too.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Omnium, hmm. Offhand, no (that sort of thing isn't quite my area). I shall have a quick perusal.
[Incidentally, if you're after day-to-day stuff then there's one I've been meaning to get for ages called Ancient Rome on X Denarii a Day, or suchlike].
There's a really nice reconstruction of the area in the Palatine museum - it has to be based on something.0 -
It will only work if Remain wins by a wide margin. Otherwise, once the Leavers have had a taste of "leaving", this would continue as a perpetual sore.Richard_Nabavi said:From Mike's article:
I’m sure that Cameron and his team regard the next eight weeks of party in-fighting is a small price to pay to resolving an issue that has so divided the party since the summer of 1992.
Precisely so. If Cameron can put this issue to bed (admittedly this might be a big 'if'), it will be a major, major political achievement, both in terms of party politics and the wider political picture. Furthermore, the current battles, and the current economic uncertainty leading up to the referendum, are a price which had to be paid at some time.0 -
NEWS ALERT: These people belong to the same party.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
Mr. Omnium, might be based on academic writings from archaeologists which may be tricky to get hold of.
Anyway, I must be off.0 -
Did Dave chase Barry through a hotel kitchen, and did the President purr when he was asked?Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
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That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
Yes, it has been for sometime. Very puzzling indeed.CarlottaVance said:
It's a puzzle- if it was the other way round the old "oldies aren't on the Internet- hence the lower LEAVE vote". (And conversely pro REMAIN youngsters are) could be trotted out.....but it's the wrong way round for that....Sean_F said:ICM phone poll Con 38%, Lab 33%, UKIP 13%. Remain 54%, Leave 46%.
ICM online poll Con 36%, Lab 31%, UKIP 16. Remain 50%, Leave 50%.0 -
NoCasino_Royale said:Are you a member of the Conservative Party?
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Yes. It has been long trailed that some leavers will argue the result was unfair due to the PM leading it, and that number has increased markedly due to recent behaviour. Unless Remain win massively, many will conclude they could win next time, so best keep up the same intensity on the issue, not letting it lie. If the margin is huge obviously they'll be disappointed, but it will be harder to argue unfair tactics swung things decisively.surbiton said:
It will only work if Remain wins by a wide margin. Otherwise, once the Leavers have had a taste of "leaving", this would continue as a perpetual sore.Richard_Nabavi said:From Mike's article:
I’m sure that Cameron and his team regard the next eight weeks of party in-fighting is a small price to pay to resolving an issue that has so divided the party since the summer of 1992.
Precisely so. If Cameron can put this issue to bed (admittedly this might be a big 'if'), it will be a major, major political achievement, both in terms of party politics and the wider political picture. Furthermore, the current battles, and the current economic uncertainty leading up to the referendum, are a price which had to be paid at some time.0 -
@Kevin_Maguire: Undeniably bad for Corbyn & Labour after Budget shambles, cuts rows, IDS & ongoing Tory civil war on Europe https://t.co/c5TCBgrx4X0
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As usual on such occasions, one should not exclude the possibility that all of them are correct.kle4 said:
That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
Or bring out a compilation album: EU's Better EU's BestTheScreamingEagles said:
The piece I was planning to run yesterday was headlined 'Never Gonna Give EU Up - Why it might be in the best interests of the Tory Party for Remain to win'Tissue_Price said:
One for TSE I reckon - Never Gonna Give EU UpTissue_Price said:This video changes everything: voteleave.co.uk - surpassing the Ukippers, imo
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Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.kle4 said:
That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
More sensible stuff from Wes Streeting today.
Shame it's so dangerous in the PLP.0 -
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And the blue tit leads the Conservatives and the great tit UKIP.watford30 said:
Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.kle4 said:
That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
Like Vitellius and Otho. "Each accused the other of shameful vices, and both were correct."AlastairMeeks said:
As usual on such occasions, one should not exclude the possibility that all of them are correct.kle4 said:
That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw
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brilliant !Plato_Says said:0 -
A win is a win. The PM campaigning is not unfair tactics. A PM who did not express a view on a significant issue would be pisspoor, frankly. Look at how some of us criticise Corbyn for not engaging with the issues of the day.surbiton said:
It will only work if Remain wins by a wide margin. Otherwise, once the Leavers have had a taste of "leaving", this would continue as a perpetual sore.Richard_Nabavi said:From Mike's article:
I’m sure that Cameron and his team regard the next eight weeks of party in-fighting is a small price to pay to resolving an issue that has so divided the party since the summer of 1992.
Precisely so. If Cameron can put this issue to bed (admittedly this might be a big 'if'), it will be a major, major political achievement, both in terms of party politics and the wider political picture. Furthermore, the current battles, and the current economic uncertainty leading up to the referendum, are a price which had to be paid at some time.
I may disagree with Cameron on the results of his negotiation and his approach to the EU. I may not ultimately agree with his recommendation But his view - that all things considered, on balance it is better for Britain to remain in the EU - is a legitimate, respectable and honourable point of view. As is the view - expressed most eloquently by Michael Gove - that all things considered, on balance, it is better for Britain to leave at this stage.
And those who lose need to accept the result not endlessly moan about how it was not legitimate. That's as irritating as those in Labour who claim that the Tories did not really win the last election because [insert spurious figures/arguments here]. And of course the losers are entitled to hold their opinions and argue for them but they need to do so in a way which does not suggest that they think the voters got it wrong. That is to do the very thing that the EU-wallahs get accused of.
The interesting thing for me is if, say, Remain win by a very narrow margin, whether other EU states and the EU establishment will realise that they may have to tread softly given such a big F*** Off vote or whether they will ignore the size of the Leave vote. And, equally, would they rush to offer more if if were a narrow Leave vote.
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And his gift for PR mismanagement is undiminishedwatford30 said:Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.
@SamCoatesTimes: No update / decision / clarity on whether Corbyn seeing Obama, Labour says. Still not clear what "logistical" obstacle might be0 -
Nothing Scottish Labour come out with is nuanced or fair.NickPalmer said:
Never heard of her tbh. Googling, I see she's a prospective candidate for the Scottish Parliament.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Leftie mate of Corbyn's. A respected source for any hard left person.Alanbrooke said:
who the F is Cat Headley ? Your mum ?Scott_P said:@BBC_Joe_Lynam: Ian Botham on Brexit: "England is an island and we should be proud"
That'll go down well in Scotland, Wales and NI
#bbcdp
@Cat_Headley: It would be wrong to say that this sums up all #Brexitters,but it certainly sums up a certain type of Brexitter... https://t.co/Djd7padrti
That said, her comment seems reasonably nuanced and fair enough.0 -
http://order-order.com/2016/04/18/tory-mps-on-osborne-utter-crap-laughably-spurious-childish-and-ridiculous/
Osborne is having the proverbial shit kicked out of him this evening.
And who is doing the kicking? Why, mostly other Tories and conservatives (with a small c).
Even George himself, while declaiming his absurd analysis of the far off economic future, knew - by his facial expressions - that he was talking out of the top of his head.0 -
The Out camp has failed to come down clearly on what post-Brexit trading arrangement it favours. It claims, with straight face, that Britain could maintain access to the single market without meeting the obligations this entails as regards free movement of people. This disdain for political reality bears more than a passing resemblance to the Know Nothing rhetoric of Donald Trump.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45b86bb6-0552-11e6-9b51-0fb5e65703ce.html#ixzz46Ce147CB
This June’s referendum is the most important political decision that the British people will take for a generation. All sides must engage in arguments of substance. The Treasury’s report is a useful counterpoint in a debate that is becoming increasingly politically charged, especially within a divided Conservative party. If the Brexiteers cannot respond by addressing the issues it raises head on, they do not deserve to be taken seriously.
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Unless the polls are wrong and Remain win a landslide or Leave win the result will be a narrow Remain which will resolve nothing, as indyref showed, other than provide a boost to UKIP from Leavers saying 'we wuz robbed!'0
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I agree. One of the best political meetings I have ever been to was when Jimmy Reid was standing in Dundee as a candidate. I agreed with almost nothing he said but boy, did he say it well.Cyclefree said:
I would go because I think such occasions can be interesting, it is always useful to hear what those who are on the opposite side of you in an argument have to say and you can learn an awful lot by listening and asking a few questions rather than speaking.Casino_Royale said:Off topic - my firm (led by ardent Remainers) have invited me along to an event on 14th June at Westminster Abbey where the guest speaker is Peter Mandelson, who will be "sharing his thoughts" on the Europe debate.
They have booked a table, invited me as along it's a "fantastic networking event" but don't know I'm a Leaver.
I really don't think it's a good idea for me to go, especially barely 10 days before the vote. The subject is bound to come up around the table. I'm not sure I could keep my mouth shut.
What do pb'ers think? How would I politely turn it down without giving my views away?
But if you really don't want to go, an alternative social / family engagement is the way to decline politely.
Mandelson has many flaws but is, in my opinion, the unsung hero of the crash. Brown was completely paralysed by it and seriously needed someone competent to run his government for him. He is an interesting guy and I would not miss the opportunity to hear him speak.0 -
Emerson New YorkJackW said:National - NBC/WSJ
Clinton 50 .. Sanders 48
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-wsj-poll-clinton-s-national-lead-down-two-points-n557671?cid=sm_tw
....................................................
New York - Gravis Marketing/ANN
Trump 57 .. Kasich 22 .. Cruz 20
Clinton 53 .. Sanders 47
http://www.oann.com/pollny/
Trump 55 Kasich 21 Cruz 18
Clinton 55 Sanders 40
http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_9be49212aa1f45efb06ed31243e26ad1.pdf0 -
Is it possible that Obama might not want to meet him (given Corbyn's remarks on Bin Laden)? After all he will stop being President long before the next election so why would he care to meet an Opposition leader and one who has been so consistently and vociferously anti-American?Scott_P said:
And his gift for PR mismanagement is undiminishedwatford30 said:Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.
@SamCoatesTimes: No update / decision / clarity on whether Corbyn seeing Obama, Labour says. Still not clear what "logistical" obstacle might be
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CHORTLEScott_P said:
Except he is Chancellor. and they are not.MikeK said:Osborne is having the proverbial shit kicked out of him this evening.
And if Remain wins, he might be PM, and they, will not.
Osborne has destroyed any chance he had of becoming PM. Divided parties cant have divisive leaders.0 -
Utah really does not like Trump, he could be the first Republican to lose the state since Goldwater!JackW said:Utah - Dan Jones Associates/Utah Policy
Clinton 38 .. Trump 38
Clinton 26 .. Cruz 67
Clinton 23 .. Kasich 68
Sanders 49 .. Trump 35
Sanders 32 .. Cruz 63
Sanders 30 .. Kasich 64
http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/9193-0 -
I saw Michael Forsyth at a hustings before he got kicked out. He was asked a question to which he answered no, but you could have sworn he answered yes. It was masterful, although his career was already over, he just didn't know it.DavidL said:I agree. One of the best political meetings I have ever been to was when Jimmy Reid was standing in Dundee as a candidate. I agreed with almost nothing he said but boy, did he say it well.
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45b86bb6-0552-11e6-9b51-0fb5e65703ce.html#ixzz46Ce147CBScott_P said:The Out camp has failed to come down clearly on what post-Brexit trading arrangement it favours. It claims, with straight face, that Britain could maintain access to the single market without meeting the obligations this entails as regards free movement of people. This disdain for political reality bears more than a passing resemblance to the Know Nothing rhetoric of Donald Trump.
This June’s referendum is the most important political decision that the British people will take for a generation. All sides must engage in arguments of substance. The Treasury’s report is a useful counterpoint in a debate that is becoming increasingly politically charged, especially within a divided Conservative party. If the Brexiteers cannot respond by addressing the issues it raises head on, they do not deserve to be taken seriously.
oh dear FT again, why not post the Sun ?
It has pithier analysis, lots more readers and we all get just one vote0 -
We'll never know though because Darling won't tell. I know with 100% certainty that Darling's version isn't right, but I don't know what the truth is.DavidL said:
I agree. One of the best political meetings I have ever been to was when Jimmy Reid was standing in Dundee as a candidate. I agreed with almost nothing he said but boy, did he say it well.Cyclefree said:
I would go because I think such occasions can be interesting, it is always useful to hear what those who are on the opposite side of you in an argument have to say and you can learn an awful lot by listening and asking a few questions rather than speaking.Casino_Royale said:Off topic - my firm (led by ardent Remainers) have invited me along to an event on 14th June at Westminster Abbey where the guest speaker is Peter Mandelson, who will be "sharing his thoughts" on the Europe debate.
They have booked a table, invited me as along it's a "fantastic networking event" but don't know I'm a Leaver.
I really don't think it's a good idea for me to go, especially barely 10 days before the vote. The subject is bound to come up around the table. I'm not sure I could keep my mouth shut.
What do pb'ers think? How would I politely turn it down without giving my views away?
But if you really don't want to go, an alternative social / family engagement is the way to decline politely.
Mandelson has many flaws but is, in my opinion, the unsung hero of the crash. Brown was completely paralysed by it and seriously needed someone competent to run his government for him. He is an interesting guy and I would not miss the opportunity to hear him speak.
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I think the "logistical" obstacle is that Jezza is a shambolic clusterf*ck and embarrassment to US/UK relations. Apart from that I'm sure a meeting with President Obama will be very meaningful.Scott_P said:
And his gift for PR mismanagement is undiminishedwatford30 said:Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.
@SamCoatesTimes: No update / decision / clarity on whether Corbyn seeing Obama, Labour says. Still not clear what "logistical" obstacle might be0 -
indeed so. The Romney effect in play.HYUFD said:
Utah really does not like Trump, he could be the first Republican to lose the state since Goldwater!JackW said:Utah - Dan Jones Associates/Utah Policy
Clinton 38 .. Trump 38
Clinton 26 .. Cruz 67
Clinton 23 .. Kasich 68
Sanders 49 .. Trump 35
Sanders 32 .. Cruz 63
Sanders 30 .. Kasich 64
http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/9193-
That said I'd still expect a comfortable Trump win in Utah in November albeit not by the landslide proportions normally expected of GOP candidates.0 -
Do you think the GOP will kiss and make up after Cleveland ?JackW said:
indeed so. The Romney effect in play.HYUFD said:
Utah really does not like Trump, he could be the first Republican to lose the state since Goldwater!JackW said:Utah - Dan Jones Associates/Utah Policy
Clinton 38 .. Trump 38
Clinton 26 .. Cruz 67
Clinton 23 .. Kasich 68
Sanders 49 .. Trump 35
Sanders 32 .. Cruz 63
Sanders 30 .. Kasich 64
http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/9193-
That said I'd still expect a comfortable Trump win in Utah in November albeit not by the landslide proportions normally expected of GOP candidates.
Will Hillary/SCOTUS focus minds ?0 -
I imagine that, if only all sides fling roughly the same amount of mud around, they will be able to settle down amicably together easily enough once the mudfest is over.JackW said:
And the blue tit leads the Conservatives and the great tit UKIP.watford30 said:
Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.kle4 said:
That civil Tory Civil War is going well then. IDS has already implicitly called Cameron a liar, now a coward, the remainers have called leavers delusional. And it's so early too.Scott_P said:Deary me.
I though John Redwood was a racing cert for Looniest comment of the day, but no, here comes IDS up the rail...
@TelePolitics: Iain Duncan Smith: David Cameron begged Barack Obama to help him 'bully the British people'… https://t.co/7xLekW4Mle https://t.co/uRHg9x07Jw0 -
I can understand, just about, Corbyn refusing to meet George W Bush (even if he is the most powerful man on the planet) but Obama? Most Labour members are still fans of BHO and this just not only makes him look petty and unprepared for the top table but will likely annoy some of his supporters too!Cyclefree said:
Is it possible that Obama might not want to meet him (given Corbyn's remarks on Bin Laden)? After all he will stop being President long before the next election so why would he care to meet an Opposition leader and one who has been so consistently and vociferously anti-American?Scott_P said:
And his gift for PR mismanagement is undiminishedwatford30 said:Luckily for them, The Bearded Tit remains firmly ensconced as leader of the Labour Party.
@SamCoatesTimes: No update / decision / clarity on whether Corbyn seeing Obama, Labour says. Still not clear what "logistical" obstacle might be0 -
Some of the reasons for the crash of RBS were laid some 18 months or so earlier. And the authorities were told in pretty explicit terms but did nothing. The report on RBS which was published a few years ago did not reveal the whole story. One day it may come out.Omnium said:
We'll never know though because Darling won't tell. I know with 100% certainty that Darling's version isn't right, but I don't know what the truth is.DavidL said:
I agree. One of the best political meetings I have ever been to was when Jimmy Reid was standing in Dundee as a candidate. I agreed with almost nothing he said but boy, did he say it well.Cyclefree said:
I would go because I think such occasions can be interesting, it is always useful to hear what those who are on the opposite side of you in an argument have to say and you can learn an awful lot by listening and asking a few questions rather than speaking.Casino_Royale said:Off topic - my firm (led by ardent Remainers) have invited me along to an event on 14th June at Westminster Abbey where the guest speaker is Peter Mandelson, who will be "sharing his thoughts" on the Europe debate.
They have booked a table, invited me as along it's a "fantastic networking event" but don't know I'm a Leaver.
I really don't think it's a good idea for me to go, especially barely 10 days before the vote. The subject is bound to come up around the table. I'm not sure I could keep my mouth shut.
What do pb'ers think? How would I politely turn it down without giving my views away?
But if you really don't want to go, an alternative social / family engagement is the way to decline politely.
Mandelson has many flaws but is, in my opinion, the unsung hero of the crash. Brown was completely paralysed by it and seriously needed someone competent to run his government for him. He is an interesting guy and I would not miss the opportunity to hear him speak.
But we do know the essence of it: the authorities were given plenty of warnings and had they really acted on them it is possible that the crash might have been less severe and possibly averted, at least in the form it took (a correction was needed). But there are none so deaf as those that don't want to hear, those at the top failed to see the wood for the trees, there was a fair amount of paralysis before frenzied last minute action and, lo and behold, Cyclefree's Ten Stages of a Crisis were acted out in all their car-crashing glory.
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I don't see him getting in the final two. Once he would have had the necessary support, but I'm not sure he could count on it anymore.Scott_P said:
I think if he is one of 2 candidates, and the other is a Loser, sorry, I meant Leaver, then if Remain wins, yeswatford30 said:You think the party membership will vote for Osborne now? Dream on.
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