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My money is on these people giving Boris a bloody nose – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,204
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    68% of voters agree with Prince William that tackling the climate crisis on earth is more important than the space race, just 2% of voters think the space race is more important and 12% think both of equal importance
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1448670876703109130?s=20

    Fortunately, people are able to decide what they want to spend their own money on however.
    Its a stupid question.
    Not at all, I for one think it is impossible tackle the climate crisis and also do other things or have other interests. If you are interested in other things you don't care about the environment, period.
    So shut down the NHS, benefits..... all of them are not relevant to climate change, after all.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There's been a lot of talk about how we're doing lots of testing, and therefore finding a lot more cases than other countries.

    And we are certainly doing more testing than most.

    What you probably should look at is test positivity rates. How many tests come back positive? Because countries with really high test positivity rates are missing a lot of cases.

    Ukraine's test positivity rate is 30%. So is Serbia's.

    The UK's is 4%.

    Portugal is 2%.
    Italy and France are 1%.

    So, I'm not sure "it's because we're testing more" is the sole answer behind why we're finding more cases.

    See https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing for details

    May have summat to do with the much increased number of folk coughing and sneezing all over public transport without, masks in the past couple of weeks.
    Just an idea.
    Then you'd expect London to be the epicentre of case growth.

    It is not.
    No, it seems to be the county rather than the city round my way too. Numbers are drifting up in my hospital along the national trend.
    East of England Region appears to be on an exciting upswing. West Midlands has been on a slow and steady rise since the end of July.
    Winning here!
  • Options
    fpt
    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

  • Options
    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.
  • Options
    Bexley is the mirror image of Havering across the river. Kent (actually) rather than Essex (actually) so a bit muted, but basically Borisland and Brexitland.

    Capable of flipping, but things haven't gone badly enough for the sort of by-election flips we saw in 1992-7.

    Yet.
  • Options

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,595

    On this ****** pox:

    I'm not hearing much about variants in the news. I think we can just about cope with the current variants: but is there a chance that a more transmissible / more injurious variant is sneaking up on us?

    Given the excellent genomics here in the UK, probably not. But it's something to look out for. Sadly. :(

    Delta is ‘winning’. It has suppressed all the other variants in the U.K. It’s tempting to wonder why our case rates are so high, and indeed our deaths, but I think it’s down to more testing, combined with no restrictions and limited personal precautions, and not getting on with the kids doses, thanks to the jcvi. I’d be interested in other countries rates as compared by ons type sampling, but it’s hard to come by. I think we will see the kids rates come down in the next month. Anecdotally they must all have had it or have it now.
    It's all the reasons you state but also the fact that 1st and 2nd vaccinations amongst the adult population have all but ceased. So we have 21% of the 12+ population not fully protected and still very prone to pass that on to others, while the effectiveness of existing vaccinations is gradually diminishing and indoor shared spaces are no longer being ventilated with the Summer long gone.

    Despite our clear head start on vaccinations, the UK has now fallen behind most other European countries in terms of the proportion of the population vaccinated, and their rates of vaccination are still going up while our rates are static. We're in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory vaccinations.

    Fine, let these irresponsible, selfish, ignorant morons who feel it is their personal right to try and sabotage the response to the biggest public health emergency in a century enjoy their freedom to do so. But lets make sure it comes at a big price to them. They still have the right to choose, but at a price.

    Up to now, there have been no consequences unless they wanted to go abroad on holiday. The two most obvious measures that would I think get vaccination rates up significantly are these:
    1. The inability to attend/book tickets for large outdoor public or medium size indoor events unless people are fully vaccinated. Not just tested but vaccinated, because vaccinations are the key to getting infections down.
    2. In the case of an outbreak at schools, children in the class or maybe the year group to be sent home unless both they and their guardians have been fully vaccinated. Announce it now and bring it in immediately after the half term.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,519
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Obviously when Labour were in government, but remember this...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Bromley_and_Chislehurst_by-election

    That's an interesting one, with Nigel Farage in third place and a very young Rachel Reeves in fourth (down from second in the GE the previous year).
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    Yes, means a few things in my world.

    To harass with nasty intentions.

    It also means to steal another guy's girlfriend.
    The heretic is hated more than the infidel.

    Those muppets would prefer to be represented by a Trump-supporting Republican than by a centrist Democrat.
  • Options

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    On topic, the social make up of this constituency seems to be well-suited to be a Conservative hold. It's more like Romford than Chesham & Amersham.
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    Obviously when Labour were in government, but remember this...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Bromley_and_Chislehurst_by-election

    That's an interesting one, with Nigel Farage in third place and a very young Rachel Reeves in fourth (down from second in the GE the previous year).
    Also a former PB stood in that by election.

    The irony is that the former Loony is now a member of the Conservative party which seems a perfect statement for the current Conservative Party.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,370

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,102

    On this ****** pox:

    I'm not hearing much about variants in the news. I think we can just about cope with the current variants: but is there a chance that a more transmissible / more injurious variant is sneaking up on us?

    Given the excellent genomics here in the UK, probably not. But it's something to look out for. Sadly. :(

    Delta is ‘winning’. It has suppressed all the other variants in the U.K. It’s tempting to wonder why our case rates are so high, and indeed our deaths, but I think it’s down to more testing, combined with no restrictions and limited personal precautions, and not getting on with the kids doses, thanks to the jcvi. I’d be interested in other countries rates as compared by ons type sampling, but it’s hard to come by. I think we will see the kids rates come down in the next month. Anecdotally they must all have had it or have it now.
    It's all the reasons you state but also the fact that 1st and 2nd vaccinations amongst the adult population have all but ceased. So we have 21% of the 12+ population not fully protected and still very prone to pass that on to others, while the effectiveness of existing vaccinations is gradually diminishing and indoor shared spaces are no longer being ventilated with the Summer long gone.

    Despite our clear head start on vaccinations, the UK has now fallen behind most other European countries in terms of the proportion of the population vaccinated, and their rates of vaccination are still going up while our rates are static. We're in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory vaccinations.

    Fine, let these irresponsible, selfish, ignorant morons who feel it is their personal right to try and sabotage the response to the biggest public health emergency in a century enjoy their freedom to do so. But lets make sure it comes at a big price to them. They still have the right to choose, but at a price.

    Up to now, there have been no consequences unless they wanted to go abroad on holiday. The two most obvious measures that would I think get vaccination rates up significantly are these:
    1. The inability to attend/book tickets for large outdoor public or medium size indoor events unless people are fully vaccinated. Not just tested but vaccinated, because vaccinations are the key to getting infections down.
    2. In the case of an outbreak at schools, children in the class or maybe the year group to be sent home unless both they and their guardians have been fully vaccinated. Announce it now and bring it in immediately after the half term.
    Good points. I would add in one note of caution about vaccination rates. Not every population is accurately counted. There was a twitter thread about countries with more than 100% of people in age ranges being vaccinated. I think we have stalled a bit, and the jcvi did not help either, but it might not be so different here to elsewhere. For one thing, we tend to be a preset vaccine happy nation, in the main. But we also have high ethnic minority populations, some of whom are most sceptical than than the white population.
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    Obviously when Labour were in government, but remember this...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Bromley_and_Chislehurst_by-election

    That's an interesting one, with Nigel Farage in third place and a very young Rachel Reeves in fourth (down from second in the GE the previous year).
    Also a former PB stood in that by election.

    The irony is that the former Loony is now a member of the Conservative party which seems a perfect statement for the current Conservative Party.
    Is that @JohnLoony ?

    Not seen him post in a long time, unless he has a new username now?
  • Options

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,570
    edited October 2021

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    Already has been, in part, for the ozone hole's discovery or at least its confirmation, as someone remarked on PB the other day.
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    Obviously when Labour were in government, but remember this...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Bromley_and_Chislehurst_by-election

    That's an interesting one, with Nigel Farage in third place and a very young Rachel Reeves in fourth (down from second in the GE the previous year).
    Also a former PB stood in that by election.

    The irony is that the former Loony is now a member of the Conservative party which seems a perfect statement for the current Conservative Party.
    Is that @JohnLoony ?

    Not seen him post in a long time, unless he has a new username now?
    Yes, he doesn't post on PB these days but he's still active on Twitter.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,317

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    tbh it's hard to see William Shatner's 20-minute jaunt (which is what prompted William's comment, as I understand it) as any more than an amusing stunt. I'd be astonished if it advanced science in any way at all.

    But I share the view that Royals shouldn't use their position to express a view on anything remotely controversial. - it undermines the whole idea of having a family whose job is to discreeetly preside without intervention.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,056

    Up to now, there have been no consequences unless they wanted to go abroad on holiday. The two most obvious measures that would I think get vaccination rates up significantly are these:
    1. The inability to attend/book tickets for large outdoor public or medium size indoor events unless people are fully vaccinated. Not just tested but vaccinated, because vaccinations are the key to getting infections down.
    2. In the case of an outbreak at schools, children in the class or maybe the year group to be sent home unless both they and their guardians have been fully vaccinated. Announce it now and bring it in immediately after the half term.

    Both of those things also impose bureaucratic and privacy costs on the majority of people who have been vaccinated. And though I'd like to get to 100% vaccination I'm not sure about the element of coercion involved.

    My concern is that people who have done the responsible thing, and are vaccinated, do not suffer because of those who reject the triumph of science that is the vaccines. The main problem here is with pressure on hospitals.

    An extreme option would be to reopen a few Nightingale hospitals to provide palliative Covid care for antivaxxers. This would stop them from using beds and highly trained medical staff who could be helping vaccinated patients with cancer, surgery, etc.

    I can't think of a less extreme option that achieves the same end without also punishing people who are vaccinated.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    MattW said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
    The latter is particularly interesting I see, as he became king after the death of his grandfather, then later abdicated in favour of his father, and there cannot be many examples of a father following his son to the kingship. He then made himself Head of State, not king, still only in his 30s, was exiled and eventually became King again and eventually abdicated again.

    Most interestingly, wikipedia things it important to note in his initial summary that he was also a filmmaker apparently.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sean_F said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    Yes, means a few things in my world.

    To harass with nasty intentions.

    It also means to steal another guy's girlfriend.
    The heretic is hated more than the infidel.

    Those muppets would prefer to be represented by a Trump-supporting Republican than by a centrist Democrat.
    Sinema got elected to the senate on a platform of allowing Medicare/aid to negotiate drug prices. Shes now opposing that exact position.

    Shes losing ground with Independents in Arizona.

    Her gamble is she doesn't get primaried in a Biden voting state with Two Dem Senators.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,489
    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh

    That report saying that on average they work a three day week hasn't helped, though I can't believe it's accurate.

  • Options

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    tbh it's hard to see William Shatner's 20-minute jaunt (which is what prompted William's comment, as I understand it) as any more than an amusing stunt. I'd be astonished if it advanced science in any way at all.

    But I share the view that Royals shouldn't use their position to express a view on anything remotely controversial. - it undermines the whole idea of having a family whose job is to discreeetly preside without intervention.
    Urging people to ‘think very carefully’ is surely pretty innocuous. That it delighted David Cameron is a black mark, mind.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    tbh it's hard to see William Shatner's 20-minute jaunt (which is what prompted William's comment, as I understand it) as any more than an amusing stunt. I'd be astonished if it advanced science in any way at all.
    I doubt the jaunt itself did, but there seem to have been a great many advances in rocketry prompted by the child like desire of some very rich folk to get into space, which seems on the face of it to have many advantages. The tourism stuff is a sideshow benefit.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,877

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    This kind-of sums her up, and the rest of her branch of sick leftish peeps:

    "In 1975, Russian dissident and Nobel laureate Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn argued in a speech before an AFL-CIO meeting in New York City that Davis was derelict in having failed to support prisoners in various socialist countries around the world, given her strong opposition to the US prison system. He said a group of Czech prisoners had appealed to Davis for support, which Solzhenitsyn said she had declined.[62] In 1972, Jiří Pelikán had written an open letter asking her to support Czech prisoners,[63] which Davis had refused, believing that the Czech prisoners were undermining the Husák government and that Pelikán, in exile in Italy, was attacking his own country.[citation needed] According to Solzhenitsyn, in response to concerns about Czech prisoners being "persecuted by the state", Davis had responded that "They deserve what they get. Let them remain in prison."[64] Alan Dershowitz, who also asked Davis to support a number of imprisoned refuseniks in the USSR, said that she declined because she did not consider them political prisoners.[65]"

    In other words: she was willing to campaign for prisoners in the US, because, you know, the US were the bad guys. She was unwilling to help prisoners and victims of Communist and socialist regimes, because those regimes were the good guys ...

    A bit like Corbyn, really.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh

    That report saying that on average they work a three day week hasn't helped, though I can't believe it's accurate.

    The problem these days is that there is a class of people who get paid so much they can afford to do a three or four day week.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
    The latter is particularly interesting I see, as he became king after the death of his grandfather, then later abdicated in favour of his father, and there cannot be many examples of a father following his son to the kingship. He then made himself Head of State, not king, still only in his 30s, was exiled and eventually became King again and eventually abdicated again.

    Most interestingly, wikipedia things it important to note in his initial summary that he was also a filmmaker apparently.
    Sounds like a really interesting gentleman.

    Quite surprising he wasn't killed by the Khmer Rouge.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,519
    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh

    That report saying that on average they work a three day week hasn't helped, though I can't believe it's accurate.

    The problem these days is that there is a class of people who get paid so much they can afford to do a three or four day week.
    And spend the rest of their time on PB, it would appear?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,077

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    edited October 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    An interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree on this point:

    "Starmer has got to seize this opportunity and claim what would be an enormous symbolic scalp – taking the former seat of Ted Heath. A victory would transform his leadership."

    I doubt many people care who was MP for a seat decades ago. And mid term by-elections may provide a glow for a few weeks, but won't overcome Starmer's cowardice, dullness and lack of political judgement.

    Starmer has to establish a reputation as a winner. This means that he has to turn up to these byelections with everything the Labour Party has and to try and win.

    Maybe it might slightly help, but it won't be anything like enough on its own. Otherwise the LibDems would be the natural party of government, Labour a distant second and the Tories nowhere. Starmer needs to develop personality, charisma and ideas [that are popular and that Boris doesn't immediately steal].
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    rcs1000 said:

    There's been a lot of talk about how we're doing lots of testing, and therefore finding a lot more cases than other countries.

    And we are certainly doing more testing than most.

    What you probably should look at is test positivity rates. How many tests come back positive? Because countries with really high test positivity rates are missing a lot of cases.

    Ukraine's test positivity rate is 30%. So is Serbia's.

    The UK's is 4%.

    Portugal is 2%.
    Italy and France are 1%.

    So, I'm not sure "it's because we're testing more" is the sole answer behind why we're finding more cases.

    See https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing for details

    There are things which would distort even this test, such as stigma attached to being known to have the disease and the degree of stigma varying by country. But I do not think that is the case with COVID and Europe. It is a big issue in Pakistan, where sick people are refusing to get tested.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748
    Re header; Pfft
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
    The latter is particularly interesting I see, as he became king after the death of his grandfather, then later abdicated in favour of his father, and there cannot be many examples of a father following his son to the kingship. He then made himself Head of State, not king, still only in his 30s, was exiled and eventually became King again and eventually abdicated again.

    Most interestingly, wikipedia things it important to note in his initial summary that he was also a filmmaker apparently.
    Quite surprising he wasn't killed by the Khmer Rouge.
    Quite surprising everyone wasn't. One of the more bafflingly mad regimes in modern history it seems, most of us should know a lot more about it given its impact and how recent it was. Remarkable that Pol Pot lived to die of natural causes, and at least one of the other leaders is still alive.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    Already has been, in part, for the ozone hole's discovery or at least its confirmation, as someone remarked on PB the other day.
    Indeed, and I believe that space travel has been responsible for, or at least helped in the development of, many other scientific advances (though must confess I can't name any of them..). What I'm hoping now is that something comes from the present Musk/Bezos investments that show William's opinion shouldn't be considered important in any sort of science based debate.

    Space travel in this respect is somewhat like Formula One. From an environmental POV, I feel instinctively that it's pretty stupid to make heroes of people driving around as fast they possibly can. But I've been assured that, in fact, F1 has been really important in making normal road cars much more efficient, so has probably been an environmental plus.

    And on the subject of fuel efficiency; I've just for the first time in ages bothered to work out how many miles I did on my last petrol stop and convert it to MPG. I usually just believe the onboard computer, which has told me that in my 2 weeks back at work I've been doing about 65mpg.

    But.. I put £20 worth of petrol in, and have done 235 miles on that petrol. It cost £1.39 per litre, so £6.39 per gallon, which works out that I bought 3.17 gallons and did 74mpg

    I'm quite pleased with that!
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited October 2021

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    Yes, means a few things in my world.

    To harass with nasty intentions.

    It also means to steal another guy's girlfriend.
    Here* it is often associated with activists trying to get politicians on (usually phone video) record on issues of importance to the activist - either to provide ammunition to shame the politician with, or to force the politicians to side with the activist on the issue. So Dem on Dem birddogging would be (usually) to shame moderates into supporting more liberal policies than would be their natural inclination.

    * The US
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914
    slade said:

    For players of Civ 6 Jadwiga of Poland got a mention on In Our Time this morning.

    I've not played him: what are his key advantages?

    (And is it me, or is Barbarossa massively overpowered? The Hansa and the extra district are huge advantages.)
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Another by-election for the ages...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Brent_East_by-election

    Some think that contributed to the end of IDS. It will be interesting to see how hard the Lib Dems try.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
    The latter is particularly interesting I see, as he became king after the death of his grandfather, then later abdicated in favour of his father, and there cannot be many examples of a father following his son to the kingship. He then made himself Head of State, not king, still only in his 30s, was exiled and eventually became King again and eventually abdicated again.

    Most interestingly, wikipedia things it important to note in his initial summary that he was also a filmmaker apparently.
    Quite surprising he wasn't killed by the Khmer Rouge.
    Quite surprising everyone wasn't. One of the more bafflingly mad regimes in modern history it seems, most of us should know a lot more about it given its impact and how recent it was. Remarkable that Pol Pot lived to die of natural causes, and at least one of the other leaders is still alive.
    Visiting the Killing Fields is a must for anybody who isn't sufficiently depressed by Auschwitz.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914
    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    Simeon II of Bulgaria and King Sihanouk of Cambodia were both elected PM of their own countries, the first after being exiled, and the second after abdicating.

    So strange things can happen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_who_lost_their_thrones_in_the_20th_century
    The latter is particularly interesting I see, as he became king after the death of his grandfather, then later abdicated in favour of his father, and there cannot be many examples of a father following his son to the kingship. He then made himself Head of State, not king, still only in his 30s, was exiled and eventually became King again and eventually abdicated again.

    Most interestingly, wikipedia things it important to note in his initial summary that he was also a filmmaker apparently.
    Quite surprising he wasn't killed by the Khmer Rouge.
    Quite surprising everyone wasn't. One of the more bafflingly mad regimes in modern history it seems, most of us should know a lot more about it given its impact and how recent it was. Remarkable that Pol Pot lived to die of natural causes, and at least one of the other leaders is still alive.
    I believe the Taliban are going to be just as bad. So I read on here anyway..
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,570

    Waiting for @Charles to say that if William wants to get involved with politics he should run for Parliament.

    Would actually be more justified than saying it about Rashford.

    Is William allowed to?

    Would be a bit troubling if he could technically be PM, and then become King at the same time!
    If he wants to get involved with politics he could always abdicate from the line of succession then run for Parliament couldn't he?

    I find an unelected "future King" getting involved with politics infinitely more troubling than a footballer doing so.
    I really hope that the investment in space travel that he thinks is so pointless turns out to be directly responsible for a significant breakthrough in some environmentally beneficial scientific development.
    tbh it's hard to see William Shatner's 20-minute jaunt (which is what prompted William's comment, as I understand it) as any more than an amusing stunt. I'd be astonished if it advanced science in any way at all.

    But I share the view that Royals shouldn't use their position to express a view on anything remotely controversial. - it undermines the whole idea of having a family whose job is to discreeetly preside without intervention.
    Urging people to ‘think very carefully’ is surely pretty innocuous. That it delighted David Cameron is a black mark, mind.
    Aye, right.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Another by-election for the ages...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Brent_East_by-election

    Some think that contributed to the end of IDS. It will be interesting to see how hard the Lib Dems try.

    It's funny, I spoke to one of Dave's advisers a couple of years ago about that by election.

    Everyone thinks it contributed to the end of IDS but the reality of it was it forced Blair to readmit Livingstone back in the Labour fold a few months later to give Labour a win in the 2004 election cycle because it was going to be a bad set of elections (including Euros) for Labour.

    Then it made Ken respectable again and allowed him to go off the reservation about the Jews a few years later which was so damaging to Labour.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Hookah, Moroccan slippers and pile of Turkish cushions for Keef..
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,880
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh

    That report saying that on average they work a three day week hasn't helped, though I can't believe it's accurate.

    The problem these days is that there is a class of people who get paid so much they can afford to do a three or four day week.
    Certainly true in my local practice. All the GPs were part time, although the patient information site said that they averaged £120k (possibly pro-rata). That goes a long way in the Flatlands.

    I also think some must have enjoyed their break from holding surgeries during lockdown too much as I don't think they've all come back.

    As a result of this the practice is merging with another one. Probably just as well.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,077

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.



  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Listening to this phone in on GPs (LBC), can't say they are eliciting much or any sympathy tbh

    That report saying that on average they work a three day week hasn't helped, though I can't believe it's accurate.

    The problem these days is that there is a class of people who get paid so much they can afford to do a three or four day week.
    And spend the rest of their time on PB, it would appear?
    Crudely, if you started paying for a house at 2000 prices, rather than 2020 prices, that makes sense.

    I don't know how we get out of this one painlessly, but it needs to happen.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.



    I'm annoyed that I missed out on the Lib Dems in C&A as I thought they'd have a decent chance but most on here didn't.

    But Old Bexley & Sidcup is a tougher nut to crack as the Tories got 10 points more there last time out and there's no HS2. And whereas it was obvious that Labour wouldn't try in C&A, I'm far from certain that the Lib Dems will return the favour in Old Bexley & Sidcup.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
    I only heard that tiny bit, and the bit about John splitting up the Beatles, so don't know if he said anything nice about the Stones. I expect he did, grudgingly.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,048
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
    I yield to nobody in my love of the Stones but Macca has a point. There is a chasm between the degree to which the Beatles and the Stones advanced the development of Western popular music. Macca has a strong (in my view unanswerable) claim to being the greatest living Briton.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,325
    Good evening all is Sandpit about?
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
    I only heard that tiny bit, and the bit about John splitting up the Beatles, so don't know if he said anything nice about the Stones. I expect he did, grudgingly.
    He was surprisingly strident about John being to blame for splitting up the Beatles. Either he's been keeping a stopper on it all these years or it still really rankles (or both).
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
    Except she is losing support with Independents. This seems like a bad thing for her re-election chances.

    Sure she's gaining with Republicans but how many of them will vote for her instead of the Trumpster come election day when Trump is on the ballot?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
    Except she is losing support with Independents. This seems like a bad thing for her re-election chances.

    Sure she's gaining with Republicans but how many of them will vote for her instead of the Trumpster come election day when Trump is on the ballot?
    Lets see.
    I think she will underperform both the Dem nominee (Probably Biden) and the generic house vote in Az
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
    Except she is losing support with Independents. This seems like a bad thing for her re-election chances.

    Sure she's gaining with Republicans but how many of them will vote for her instead of the Trumpster come election day when Trump is on the ballot?
    Lets see.
    I think she will underperform both the Dem nominee (Probably Biden) and the generic house vote in Az
    I think she is genuinely at risk of being primaried at the moment.

    I think there is a significant chunk of Dem activists who thought they were getting former Green party member, most Left Wing member of the Arizona Statehouse, Sinema elected to the Senate. Not, voted with Trump more often than Joe Manchin, Sinema.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    edited October 2021

    On this ****** pox:

    I'm not hearing much about variants in the news. I think we can just about cope with the current variants: but is there a chance that a more transmissible / more injurious variant is sneaking up on us?

    Given the excellent genomics here in the UK, probably not. But it's something to look out for. Sadly. :(

    Delta is ‘winning’. It has suppressed all the other variants in the U.K. It’s tempting to wonder why our case rates are so high, and indeed our deaths, but I think it’s down to more testing, combined with no restrictions and limited personal precautions, and not getting on with the kids doses, thanks to the jcvi. I’d be interested in other countries rates as compared by ons type sampling, but it’s hard to come by. I think we will see the kids rates come down in the next month. Anecdotally they must all have had it or have it now.
    It's all the reasons you state but also the fact that 1st and 2nd vaccinations amongst the adult population have all but ceased. So we have 21% of the 12+ population not fully protected and still very prone to pass that on to others, while the effectiveness of existing vaccinations is gradually diminishing and indoor shared spaces are no longer being ventilated with the Summer long gone.

    Despite our clear head start on vaccinations, the UK has now fallen behind most other European countries in terms of the proportion of the population vaccinated, and their rates of vaccination are still going up while our rates are static. We're in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory vaccinations.

    Fine, let these irresponsible, selfish, ignorant morons who feel it is their personal right to try and sabotage the response to the biggest public health emergency in a century enjoy their freedom to do so. But lets make sure it comes at a big price to them. They still have the right to choose, but at a price.

    Up to now, there have been no consequences unless they wanted to go abroad on holiday. The two most obvious measures that would I think get vaccination rates up significantly are these:
    1. The inability to attend/book tickets for large outdoor public or medium size indoor events unless people are fully vaccinated. Not just tested but vaccinated, because vaccinations are the key to getting infections down.
    2. In the case of an outbreak at schools, children in the class or maybe the year group to be sent home unless both they and their guardians have been fully vaccinated. Announce it now and bring it in immediately after the half term.
    Good points. I would add in one note of caution about vaccination rates. Not every population is accurately counted. There was a twitter thread about countries with more than 100% of people in age ranges being vaccinated. I think we have stalled a bit, and the jcvi did not help either, but it might not be so different here to elsewhere. For one thing, we tend to be a preset vaccine happy nation, in the main. But we also have high ethnic minority populations, some of whom are most sceptical than than the white population.
    Most of Europe has similar ethnic populations now.

    We should count proven infection survivors as vaxxed though, they have protection as good as or better than the vaxxed.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,049

    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.



    I saw value in both of those bets and backed both of those. I may be wrong here but cannot see it and think it is more wishful thinking
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,044
    Boris should be fine. I still think there's a fair number of people who want to make sure the powers that be get the message on Brexit.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,102
    Foxy said:

    On this ****** pox:

    I'm not hearing much about variants in the news. I think we can just about cope with the current variants: but is there a chance that a more transmissible / more injurious variant is sneaking up on us?

    Given the excellent genomics here in the UK, probably not. But it's something to look out for. Sadly. :(

    Delta is ‘winning’. It has suppressed all the other variants in the U.K. It’s tempting to wonder why our case rates are so high, and indeed our deaths, but I think it’s down to more testing, combined with no restrictions and limited personal precautions, and not getting on with the kids doses, thanks to the jcvi. I’d be interested in other countries rates as compared by ons type sampling, but it’s hardAnd to come by. I think we will see the kids rates come down in the next month. Anecdotally they must all have had it or have it now.
    It's all the reasons you state but also the fact that 1st and 2nd vaccinations amongst the adult population have all but ceased. So we have 21% of the 12+ population not fully protected and still very prone to pass that on to others, while the effectiveness of existing vaccinations is gradually diminishing and indoor shared spaces are no longer being ventilated with the Summer long gone.

    Despite our clear head start on vaccinations, the UK has now fallen behind most other European countries in terms of the proportion of the population vaccinated, and their rates of vaccination are still going up while our rates are static. We're in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory vaccinations.

    Fine, let these irresponsible, selfish, ignorant morons who feel it is their personal right to try and sabotage the response to the biggest public health emergency in a century enjoy their freedom to do so. But lets make sure it comes at a big price to them. They still have the right to choose, but at a price.

    Up to now, there have been no consequences unless they wanted to go abroad on holiday. The two most obvious measures that would I think get vaccination rates up significantly are these:
    1. The inability to attend/book tickets for large outdoor public or medium size indoor events unless people are fully vaccinated. Not just tested but vaccinated, because vaccinations are the key to getting infections down.
    2. In the case of an outbreak at schools, children in the class or maybe the year group to be sent home unless both they and their guardians have been fully vaccinated. Announce it now and bring it in immediately after the half term.
    Good points. I would add in one note of caution about vaccination rates. Not every population is accurately counted. There was a twitter thread about countries with more than 100% of people in age ranges being vaccinated. I think we have stalled a bit, and the jcvi did not help either, but it might not be so different here to elsewhere. For one thing, we tend to be a preset vaccine happy nation, in the main. But we also have high ethnic minority populations, some of whom are most sceptical than than the white population.
    Most of Europe has similar ethnic populations now.

    We should count proven infection survivors as vaxxed though, they have protection as good as or better than the vaxxed.
    And this should apply for healthcare workers, so either proven recovery or vaccination.
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
    I yield to nobody in my love of the Stones but Macca has a point. There is a chasm between the degree to which the Beatles and the Stones advanced the development of Western popular music. Macca has a strong (in my view unanswerable) claim to being the greatest living Briton.
    When I was growing up he was my favourite Beatle. My Dad was a big Wings fan and we used to get a lot of Macca in the car (still love Live And Let Die and Band On The Run!).

    But then I saw him in the flesh.

    It was mid/late 90s on New Year's Eve, next to a London bridge (I was quite drunk and it was a long time ago, so I'm struggling with the details..). I was with a friend heading back to her place in Kensington when we spotted him walking with a tall blonde lady. We just said to each other "OMG It's Paul McCartney!" while continuing on our way.

    Then another drunk group - this one mostly young men - saw them and recognised him. One of them gleefully bounded over towards him and said excitedly "Oh my god, you're Paul McCartney aren't you?! I love you!"

    Macca clearly didn't like this. The guy wasn't in his face (he was socially distanced!), but Macca got in his face, put his nose to his nose, and shouted, "I want you to FUCK OFF and leave me alone!".

    I can understand his wish to be left alone, but it really put me off him.

    George has been my favourite Beatle ever since. I love the fact that he wrote Something, the song Sinatra called the greatest love song ever written, and My Sweet Lord which must be one of the most performed gospel songs since he wrote it.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609

    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.

    The OGH hath forsaken us.

    Repent, ye gentle folk of PB.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    I must be great at by-elections, as I won a copy of "Sex, lies and the ballot box" in a by-election prediction competition. Granted that was only once, and it was a fluke, but it's hard proof.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited October 2021
    Old Bexley and Sidcup is the 122nd safest Tory seat, if Labour gained it Starmer would be heading for a landslide even bigger than Blair's in 1997. It is nowhere near happening on current polling, especially as it is in a strong Leave area

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    edited October 2021
    kle4 said:

    I must be great at by-elections, as I won a copy of "Sex, lies and the ballot box" in a by-election prediction competition. Granted that was only once, and it was a fluke, but it's hard proof.

    I (jointly) won the Eastleigh by election PB Nojam.

    Perhaps ought to revive that for a thread.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    tlg86 said:

    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.



    I'm annoyed that I missed out on the Lib Dems in C&A as I thought they'd have a decent chance but most on here didn't.

    But Old Bexley & Sidcup is a tougher nut to crack as the Tories got 10 points more there last time out and there's no HS2. And whereas it was obvious that Labour wouldn't try in C&A, I'm far from certain that the Lib Dems will return the favour in Old Bexley & Sidcup.
    I would be surprised to see the LDs run a full campaign in Bexley. Whether LAB fill the void I do not know but Starmer needs to do something and getting a good result could help his position.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    HYUFD said:

    Old Bexley and Sidcup is the 122nd safest Tory seat, if Labour gained it Starmer would be heading for a landslide even bigger than Blair's in 1997. It is nowhere near happening on current polling, especially as it is in a strong Leave area

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

    The Tories lost Orpington on a 26% swing in 1962. That didn’t lead to a Liberal election victory in 1964.

    That said, I would be surprised if the Tories lost. I think there will be a biggish sympathy vote for a start, and also Starmer is not pulling up any trees in the Hoke Counties as far as I can judge. In C&A there were numerous other factors at play, particularly planning. Is that the case here?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491

    tlg86 said:

    Go read this thread from May to realise how rubbish many PBers are when it comes to assessing by-elections.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/05/20/the-lds-have-a-better-than-6-chance-of-taking-chesham-amersham/

    It was the same with Batley and Spen which was going to be a certain CON gain.



    I'm annoyed that I missed out on the Lib Dems in C&A as I thought they'd have a decent chance but most on here didn't.

    But Old Bexley & Sidcup is a tougher nut to crack as the Tories got 10 points more there last time out and there's no HS2. And whereas it was obvious that Labour wouldn't try in C&A, I'm far from certain that the Lib Dems will return the favour in Old Bexley & Sidcup.
    I would be surprised to see the LDs run a full campaign in Bexley. Whether LAB fill the void I do not know but Starmer needs to do something and getting a good result could help his position.
    Yes he needs to have a proper crack at it, to get the biggest swing possible.
  • Options
    gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Iraq my brains for a better one.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Statistically I would have thought less likely, given that was until recently the commonest cause of by-elections. And Chesham and Amersham was caused by the death of the MP.

    Why might make a difference here is that Brokenshire was still quite young. It could mean people feel bereft as he had more to give.

    Of course, they may just decide to give Johnson a bloody nose instead.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    gealbhan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Iraq my brains for a better one.
    Israel in against my brilliance cathartic for you?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
    Except she is losing support with Independents. This seems like a bad thing for her re-election chances.

    Sure she's gaining with Republicans but how many of them will vote for her instead of the Trumpster come election day when Trump is on the ballot?
    Lets see.
    I think she will underperform both the Dem nominee (Probably Biden) and the generic house vote in Az
    I think she is genuinely at risk of being primaried at the moment.

    I think there is a significant chunk of Dem activists who thought they were getting former Green party member, most Left Wing member of the Arizona Statehouse, Sinema elected to the Senate. Not, voted with Trump more often than Joe Manchin, Sinema.
    The "moderate" stuff that always gets blocked is never anything the gods, guns and gays Trumpers particularly care about but infrastructure spending that polls well across the spectrum but which the Dems will get it in the neck for if it doesn't pass
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    fpt

    kinabalu said:

    Enough about Wagner or David Davis, Mick has cancelled Brown Sugar!

    The skydog slaver will no longer be whipping the women just around midnight or at any other time - not at a Stones gig anyway.

    Do they ever do Sweet Black Angel live?

    Apparently that was a political song about Angela Davis, a black woman facing a murder charge at the time it was written.

    Yes, I know the song. Doubt that's in the set but not for any special reason other than space and it's not really a standard. Great band, could make a case for goatdom, but I'd like to see them stop now and embrace pipe, slippers and recliner.
    Certainly one of the greatest bands of all time. McCartney showed himself up for the tosser he is (for at least the 1000th time) by calling them a 'blues cover band' in his recent interview.
    Oh dear. Certainly not JUST that. Still, Macca can be naff but when I did an exercise a while ago, which were my fav beatles songs, I got a slightly unwelcome surprise. More of his than Lennon's were in there.
    I yield to nobody in my love of the Stones but Macca has a point. There is a chasm between the degree to which the Beatles and the Stones advanced the development of Western popular music. Macca has a strong (in my view unanswerable) claim to being the greatest living Briton.
    When I was growing up he was my favourite Beatle. My Dad was a big Wings fan and we used to get a lot of Macca in the car (still love Live And Let Die and Band On The Run!).

    But then I saw him in the flesh.

    It was mid/late 90s on New Year's Eve, next to a London bridge (I was quite drunk and it was a long time ago, so I'm struggling with the details..). I was with a friend heading back to her place in Kensington when we spotted him walking with a tall blonde lady. We just said to each other "OMG It's Paul McCartney!" while continuing on our way.

    Then another drunk group - this one mostly young men - saw them and recognised him. One of them gleefully bounded over towards him and said excitedly "Oh my god, you're Paul McCartney aren't you?! I love you!"

    Macca clearly didn't like this. The guy wasn't in his face (he was socially distanced!), but Macca got in his face, put his nose to his nose, and shouted, "I want you to FUCK OFF and leave me alone!".

    I can understand his wish to be left alone, but it really put me off him.

    George has been my favourite Beatle ever since. I love the fact that he wrote Something, the song Sinatra called the greatest love song ever written, and My Sweet Lord which must be one of the most performed gospel songs since he wrote it.

    George Harrison is definitely the best Beatle.

    Not a dick.
    Wrote great music.

    What's not to like?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Statistically I would have thought less likely, given that was until recently the commonest cause of by-elections. And Chesham and Amersham was caused by the death of the MP.

    Why might make a difference here is that Brokenshire was still quite young. It could mean people feel bereft as he had more to give.

    Of course, they may just decide to give Johnson a bloody nose instead.
    My working assumption is that the reason for the vacancy doesn't influence the vote in any measurable way.
    But it's just a hunch.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Statistically I would have thought less likely, given that was until recently the commonest cause of by-elections. And Chesham and Amersham was caused by the death of the MP.

    Why might make a difference here is that Brokenshire was still quite young. It could mean people feel bereft as he had more to give.

    Of course, they may just decide to give Johnson a bloody nose instead.
    My working assumption is that the reason for the vacancy doesn't influence the vote in any measurable way.
    But it's just a hunch.
    See Eastbourne, 1990.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Iraq my brains for a better one.
    Israel in against my brilliance cathartic for you?
    Yemen need to not be so keen to get in a retort.
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Not always, see Crewe & Nantwich 2008 when the deceased MP's daughter lost the by election.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Statistically I would have thought less likely, given that was until recently the commonest cause of by-elections. And Chesham and Amersham was caused by the death of the MP.

    Why might make a difference here is that Brokenshire was still quite young. It could mean people feel bereft as he had more to give.

    Of course, they may just decide to give Johnson a bloody nose instead.
    My working assumption is that the reason for the vacancy doesn't influence the vote in any measurable way.
    But it's just a hunch.
    See Eastbourne, 1990.
    Yes, one data point in my favour, but only one
  • Options
    On topic, for this by-election (and, I think, for the next GE), the only way the left can win is if Lab and LD disband and become part of the Greens.

    If the whole of the centre to left of British politics became one Green Party, they'd easily win a majority.

    Is there any way it could happen?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Iraq my brains for a better one.
    Israel in against my brilliance cathartic for you?
    Yemen need to not be so keen to get in a retort.
    I think we should abandon the puns before the thread Kurdles.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,325
    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    Ok thanks
  • Options
    Definite sympathy vote at the Cheadle 2005 by election.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    edited October 2021
    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    For what it is worth, on a small sample.

    Last 10 by elections (non deaths)


    7 holds, 3 gains

    Last 10 by-elections (deaths
    )

    9 holds and 1 gain (all holds were Lab, the gain was LDs in Chesham)

    It seems that there was a run of 13 by-elections with death as the cause in Lab held seats until the recent two Con seat ones. Deaths in office used to be more common.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    On topic, for this by-election (and, I think, for the next GE), the only way the left can win is if Lab and LD disband and become part of the Greens.

    If the whole of the centre to left of British politics became one Green Party, they'd easily win a majority.

    Is there any way it could happen?

    That would just mean fiscally conservative Remainers considering the LDs or even Starmer Labour would stick with the Tories as the Greens are too left for them
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,095

    On topic, for this by-election (and, I think, for the next GE), the only way the left can win is if Lab and LD disband and become part of the Greens.

    If the whole of the centre to left of British politics became one Green Party, they'd easily win a majority.

    Is there any way it could happen?

    Mass hypnosis would be the obvious first option.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    Statistically I would have thought less likely, given that was until recently the commonest cause of by-elections. And Chesham and Amersham was caused by the death of the MP.

    Why might make a difference here is that Brokenshire was still quite young. It could mean people feel bereft as he had more to give.

    Of course, they may just decide to give Johnson a bloody nose instead.
    My working assumption is that the reason for the vacancy doesn't influence the vote in any measurable way.
    But it's just a hunch.
    See Eastbourne, 1990.
    It's probably a "better" reason for a by-election than a scandal or CBA, but if the punters want to kick the incumbent party, they will.

    And the things that might annoy Bex and Sid sufficiently haven't happened.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491

    On topic, for this by-election (and, I think, for the next GE), the only way the left can win is if Lab and LD disband and become part of the Greens.

    If the whole of the centre to left of British politics became one Green Party, they'd easily win a majority.

    Is there any way it could happen?

    I don't think a "progressive alliance" works. Only a subset of voters are willing to do so tactically. The same applies to Unionists in Scotland.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited October 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Apart from the obvious question of whether Sinema will leave the Democrat caucus at some point, had anyone heard of the phrase "birddogging" before?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/were-going-to-make-her-life-unpleasant-activists-arent-finished-with-kyrsten-sinema/ar-AAPtVW0?li=BBnb7Kz

    I don't think she leaves. She wouldn't get elected as a Republican in Arizona, but I think she knows she's in a Purple State, and that the electoral geography might not be as favourable to a generic Democrat in 2024, and she therefore is going to be extremely moderate.

    It's almost certainly the correct choice.
    Except she is losing support with Independents. This seems like a bad thing for her re-election chances.

    Sure she's gaining with Republicans but how many of them will vote for her instead of the Trumpster come election day when Trump is on the ballot?
    Lets see.
    I think she will underperform both the Dem nominee (Probably Biden) and the generic house vote in Az
    I think she is genuinely at risk of being primaried at the moment.

    I think there is a significant chunk of Dem activists who thought they were getting former Green party member, most Left Wing member of the Arizona Statehouse, Sinema elected to the Senate. Not, voted with Trump more often than Joe Manchin, Sinema.
    The "moderate" stuff that always gets blocked is never anything the gods, guns and gays Trumpers particularly care about but infrastructure spending that polls well across the spectrum but which the Dems will get it in the neck for if it doesn't pass
    Arizona is one of the most fiscally conservative and libertarian states in the USA, it even voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964 when LBJ won a landslide nationally and of course it voted for McCain and Romney over Obama in 2008 and 2012.

    Biden only won Arizona with socially liberal but fiscally conservative voters who voted Libertarian in 2016 when Trump beat Hillary in the state but for him in 2020 solely to remove Trump. Sinema knows her state. It is not infrastructure spending she is blocking anyway but pork spending and big government expansion beyond that
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    On topic, I'm expecting a sympathy vote for the Tories.

    James Brokenshire was a top bloke.

    Are death by-elections more likely to see the same party re-elected than other by-elections?
    For what it is worth, on a small sample.

    Last 10 by elections (non deaths)


    7 holds, 3 gains

    Last 10 by-elections (deaths
    )

    9 holds and 1 gain (all holds were Lab, the gain was LDs in Chesham)
    Good work, but I'll do that thing again where I say there are multiple factors involved.
    MLR analysis would be really interesting here, but I've sadly not got the time.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Iraq my brains for a better one.
    Israel in against my brilliance cathartic for you?
    Yemen need to not be so keen to get in a retort.
    I think we should abandon the puns before the thread Kurdles.
    They are pretty Shi-ite.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good evening all is Sandpit about?

    He's in Dubai, so probably not.
    So what time is he due by? 😆
    O man, that was awful.
    Iran in horror from that pun.
    That was worse though. Armenia were scraping the barrel there.
    Your need to Kurd your enthusiam when it comes to puns.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,325
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, for this by-election (and, I think, for the next GE), the only way the left can win is if Lab and LD disband and become part of the Greens.

    If the whole of the centre to left of British politics became one Green Party, they'd easily win a majority.

    Is there any way it could happen?

    Mass hypnosis would be the obvious first option.
    I think they are already.. try another idea....
This discussion has been closed.