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Remember this from the 2016 referendum campaign? – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    We should cut our corporation tax rate to 14.5% from 2023, not raise it.

    Just to troll the Irish.

    And useless Biden, of course.
    Tories have just put it up as I recall.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 54,837
    Foxy said:

    A variation on the "Tories are dying out" myth:

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1446372280846725157?s=20

    I think she is right though. While in general people become more right wing with age, that doesn't equate to Unionism.
    If she was right then in the 7 years since the referendum we should have seen a steady shift in favour of independence. We haven't.
  • Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
  • eekeek Posts: 18,777
    edited October 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Went to my local BP garage at 6.45am this morning - zero queue and petrol all available, but still restricted to 20 litres each. He said that'd go next week.

    It's fizzling out.

    Turkeys are next. I was at the turkey farm yesterday for our weekly dog training, and their flock (or whatever the right term is) is only half the size of previous years. When it comes to ordering time there’s going to be a rush
    Booths' Christmas brochure is out next Friday - our Turkey order will be going in shortly after.

    Now I could use the local butcher but I trust Booths more to ensure we get what we want or at least a very good substitute should things go wrong.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,398
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    We should cut our corporation tax rate to 14.5% from 2023, not raise it.

    Just to troll the Irish.

    And useless Biden, of course.
    Tories have just put it up as I recall.
    Well they have committed to doing so in a few years - hence the "not raise it" in my post.

    A mistake.
  • MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Keep an eye on that because the US would like American companies to be taxed in the United States on sales they make abroad, not Ireland but not Britain either.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    You are upsetting the England love in , please desist. My only surprise is 1966 , Dunkirk , the blitz or BoB not mentioned yet but no doubt it will come.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    IanB2 said:

    Went to my local BP garage at 6.45am this morning - zero queue and petrol all available, but still restricted to 20 litres each. He said that'd go next week.

    It's fizzling out.

    Turkeys are next. I was at the turkey farm yesterday for our weekly dog training, and their flock (or whatever the right term is) is only half the size of previous years. When it comes to ordering time there’s going to be a rush
    My KellyBronze is ordered and paid for.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 54,837
    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    Heather Mills was investing in a couple of disused factories in the North East for her Vbites range. The old Coty factory in Northumberland and the Walkers factory in Peterlee.

    It is definitely a growing industry.

    The Vegan and Vegetarian range in my local sainsburys is growing considerably. It is three times the size it was when I first started buying the Cauldron Cumberland sausages three years ago.
    YUK
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    I thought that was old and dead news. Has there been a change?
    May be I should have put a sarcasm emoji…
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    LOL, gigantic jingo bells as ever.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 54,837
    Lots of reporting that Ireland will lose €2 billion in tax revenue because of an increase in its corporate tax rate from 12.5% to 15%. In case anyone thinks this is some kind of Laffer curve effect, it’s not. The revenue loss stems from another aspect of the global agreement....

    This will see more sharing of profit-related taxes. For example some of the tax revenue Ireland raises from ads sold in Germany will now go to the German government.


    https://twitter.com/WhelanKarl/status/1446167406129393664?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434

    Britain's transport minister Grant Shapps said on Friday there was still no exact date on when the United States would open for travellers from the United Kingdom, beyond guidance of early November.

    Asked on Sky News if he had a specific date for the U.S. reopening, Shapps said: "I don't. I've been speaking to my opposite number, I spoke to the American ambassador a couple of days ago, they're still working through the technicalities of that."


    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-says-exact-date-us-travel-reopening-still-not-known-2021-10-08/

    So just usual lying bollox from Boris as ever.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,434
    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Germany today

    22,000 cases and 411 deaths

    A statistical blip? Or their luck running out?

    Well, hard to know for sure. They're nowhere near as vaccinated (particularly in the East) as France/Spain/Italy/etc., so they're potentially pretty vulnerable.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they had a nasty Autumn in Thuringia/Mecklenerg/etc.
    411 deaths is a huge leap from their "normal", tho their number of daily deaths WAS slowly rising, likewise cases

    As we all know one of the habits of Covid is to seek out countries which have been a *tiny bit smug* about their Covid handling, and give them a spanking. As a lesson. Perhaps now it is Germany's turn
    Having spent nearly three weeks there this year, I don’t think smug is a fair description. It’s the only place I have been where observance of precautions is consistent, and challenged if you forget; in towns and cities I kept coming across free testing points and vaccination stations, with small queues of properly distanced people waiting for them.

    If Germany’s figures do go poor (and a sudden jump in daily deaths is more likely to be random fluctuation since a worsening situation should see a progressive change) the more accurate conclusion is that the new variant is sufficiently contagious that we are now wasting our time with all the precautions.
    Agreed re Germans’ behaviour: conformance to the rules is astounding. Definitely not “smug” as Sean claims. Like most things, they take Covid very seriously.
    Haven't heard Merkel going on about world beating anything. Imagine if Britain had Germany's relatively somewhat better numbers compared to some neighbours, Johnson would be claiming credit every day

    Also Leon's death figures are just wrong.
    Do you think he has knapped his own flint and went completely Ga Ga
  • eekeek Posts: 18,777

    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services

    Free for over 50s not over 60s (I was surprised when I arrived to be told it was free).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
    He was pretty clear that if Britain invoked Article 16 then there would be EU economic counter measures.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,442

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,145

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.

    Who you are born to is also an accident of life, but you do tend to love your Mum and Dad. I am invested in England in a way that I am not anywhere else. It's where I come from, where my kids come from, where my parents and grandparents etc came from. That has created something inside me that I just cannot feel for anywhere else. Perhaps it is irrational (though I don't think so), but it is what it is.

    You are clearly correct and I am clearly the outsider and interestingly I don't feel that way about my mum and dad either. With the exception of my children I treat people on their merits. It is interesting that my feelings do revert to the norm when it comes to my children and I have to say it was a reservation I had in having kids. It scares me that anything sad could happen to them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    One is a British Citizen and resident, the other is not. All British adults have a right to express political views.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimT said:

    One thing I am not clued up on is the idea of the immune system being weakened over the last 18 months by not being so exposed to pathogens. Lots of people suggesting this, but how true is it? Does the immune system need constant work outs?

    With flu isn't it simply the case that the virus is continually mutating, therefore the longer you go without being in contact the latest flu variants the more likely you are to encounter a markedly different variety and the less beneficial your previously acquired immune response will be?
    No, actually. That would be more true for viruses with more continuous evolutionary paths, like coronaviruses. Flus have that, but the major thing is that they completely flip the H and N proteins between multiple versions of each. So evolution of phenotype is not smooth, but jumps from one to the other. That is why exposure to last year's flu does not confer protection against this year's.

    So with flu, the key is not whether this year's flu is similar to last year's, but whether the H and N proteins have been seen in a generation or not.
    The rate of flu vaccination in the over 60s is also likely to be higher than normal, I think ?
    The problem though is anticipating the flu strain. We normally get 6 months notice because we see what the Australians get in their winter, but not this year.
    Understood, which is why the 60k worst case estimate is not ridiculous - equally the numbers could be abnormally low.
    I think the Uk mistake is the abandonment of masks - here in Spain they remain completely compulsory in shps, offices, etc. Although not perfect they will prevent a lot of infections imho.

    I spent three days in Dublin this week and three in London. The contrast in mask wearing was stark. In Ireland, you have to wear them in shops and on public transport etc, and they check vaccine certificates before they let you into restaurants. In London, mask wearing seemed pretty non-existent - even on the tube.

    Same in France, although would say tube is still at 60% in my view
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,122
    edited October 2021
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    That's going too far. Neither, and no-one, should be condemned for 'using soft power' which is merely another term for the fact that every individual and corporate body is at liberty to live and act within the law in a free society. The criticism should be kept for the quality of argument and reasons for and against what people campaign for.

    We are all (nearly all) engaged in politics without standing for election. It's called voting, and is the most powerful soft power of all.

    FWIW I don't really agree with either Rashford or Murdoch; but will defend to the death......etc.


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,250
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,745

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
    Fanatics can never be appeased, I agree with you. It is incremental steps. The national food strategy also talks about expanding the sugar tax, enforced reformulations and so on. None of this would affect the celebrity chefs who endorse it, or Henry Dimblebys Leon Group either. But it would impact on a large portion of the food industry that is not a stakeholder in this. It all seems somewhat pre-determined.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    In a strongly-worded initial reaction, the European Commission said the decision on Thursday raised “serious concerns”. It reaffirmed that “EU law has primacy over national law, including constitutional provisions”.


    That's the Guardian today on the Poland constitutional case. Just a reminder that those who think the EU is not an emerging state, and those who think everyone else is wonderfully happy with this conflicted and oxymoronic nightmare may be mistaken.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/polish-court-rules-that-eu-laws-incompatible-with-its-constitution


    BTW, the SNP are unhappy with the UK having control over the Scottish constitutional settlement, while wanting the EU to 'have primacy over (Scottish) national law, including constitutional provisions'. Fascinating.

    The problem with this analysis is that the Polish Constitutional Court isn't an independent body that deliberates before coming to reasoned and objective judgment. It's a kangaroo court stuffed with ruling party stooges who do precisely what they are told by their government masters.

    It is a massive problem for the EU however. A bigger threat to them in my view than Brexit. It can't really function if members don't respect the rule of law and and have a strong and independent judiciary.
    I thought the German Constitutional Court had ruled a couple of times that EU law didn’t have primacy over German Fundamental Law
    That is correct.

    EU law has supremacy over national law only to the extent agreed in the treaties. If the EU claims powers that are not envisaged in its treaties, and which contradict national law (or countries' constitutions), then that it is the duty of national courts to slap the EU down.

    When countries join the EU, they make certain treaty commitments regarding their legal systems, and the maintenance of an independent judiciary. I think there is a good case that Poland (and Hungary) are no longer in compliance with their treaty commitments.

    I would suggest that the solution to this is that Poland and Hungary should cease to be members of the EU. They clearly aren't interested in "the project".

    And I would suggest that the UK should take the lead in creating a lighter-touch, less political free trade area. One that - in the fullness of time - would hopefully have a very close relationship with the EU. One that was about a single currency and political integration, and one that was solely about free trade.

    Done right, I could see a number of non-Eurozone members choose our grouping over the EU. And the EU, stripped of all the complexity of managing two groups of members, who will often have opposing interests.
    But Poles are the ones with the most favourable view of the EU. Why should they leave an organisation that is trying to defend an independent judiciary?

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/14/the-european-union/


    Who would have an unfavourable view of an organisation bunging them £10bn a year?
    The Scottish government?
    I think you'll find that it's Scotland that's subsidising the UK to the tune of £10bn a year.
    Please provide links to support that. I am genuinely interested how the GERS figures can be that wrong if you are correct.
    I have a suspicion RobD was preempting a reply to my jest with that comment.
    Also the Fcukwit asking for proof when all that is available are the fake English GERS crap. They are complete bollox , all borrowing is by the UK (English) parliament and using their dodgy money laundering skills they apportion thhheir debt to Scotland and clowns like the fcukwit above whine and try to pretend it is fact.
    You’ve been unusually acerbic the last few days. Court getting you down?
  • Foxy said:

    A variation on the "Tories are dying out" myth:

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1446372280846725157?s=20

    I think she is right though. While in general people become more right wing with age, that doesn't equate to Unionism.
    If she was right then in the 7 years since the referendum we should have seen a steady shift in favour of independence. We haven't.
    It should be possible to test.

    Check the eg 35-44 polling of a decade ago, compare against the 45-54 of today. Normalise the results for any swing, then see if the age profile has changed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,442
    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.

    Who you are born to is also an accident of life, but you do tend to love your Mum and Dad. I am invested in England in a way that I am not anywhere else. It's where I come from, where my kids come from, where my parents and grandparents etc came from. That has created something inside me that I just cannot feel for anywhere else. Perhaps it is irrational (though I don't think so), but it is what it is.

    It's both irrational and rational - you can visit the most objectively awful places and find that local people feel an attachment to them, despite the evident truth that living almost anywhere else would be better; if such people are lucky enough to move somewhere better, they still pine for the pleasures of the windswept plague-ridden hellhole from whence they came. (what it is about south Essex that does this I do not know)

    Which becomes rational when you consider that it has enabled people to spread across the planet rather than all moving to the south of France and California
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,640

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Keep an eye on that because the US would like American companies to be taxed in the United States on sales they make abroad, not Ireland but not Britain either.
    No, that was Biden's big compromise to get the UK on board. He's given up global taxation rights on US domiciled companies in return for the minimum rate. Total US tax take from companies will go up significantly, just a bit less significantly than if they managed to hold onto the Trump America first idea of the US keeping revenues generated overseas by US companies.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,282
    edited October 2021
    Thanks for the header. A timely reminder of just how disreputable those who now sit at the top table are. Every element is there in plain sight. I sincerely hope Starmer gets his act together so he gets the opportunity to hammer this message home. The facts on the ground are certainly going to help him.
  • Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Absolute bunkum as the dirty digger himself might say.

    When Rashford gets investigated by the monopolies and mergers commissions in many countries for a near monopoly on common sense you would have half a point. But even then Murdoch would be happy to spin (and create) outright political lies in the name of "news entertainment", as they freely admit to on Fox news, whereas Rashford is simply giving his opinion.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    A variation on the "Tories are dying out" myth:

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1446372280846725157?s=20

    I think she is right though. While in general people become more right wing with age, that doesn't equate to Unionism.
    Not since the SNP controls the curriculum
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    eek said:

    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services

    Free for over 50s not over 60s (I was surprised when I arrived to be told it was free).
    I had mine yesterday, and am waiting for any side effects.

    The lady in Boots said they are having to restrict appointments now as supply of the vaccine is being hampered by the general driver/fuel crisis.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,146

    Dura_Ace said:

    I'd like to hear what some of our liberal-left regulars love about England?

    It would be nice to find some common ground.

    Multi-faceted and complex sense of humour.
    Cultural superpower for centuries.
    Natural communists with a great aptitude for queueing in a decorous manner.
    Highly secular society
    Socialised medicine
    Great variety in distinct regional accents, idiom and accents
    Genuine and unpretentious capacity for self mockery

    10 or 20 years ago I would have said, and I would not have been lying, that I admired the low key and subtle nature of British patriotic expression but that has gone now with the rise of performative nationalism such as the annual poppyfest and the ongoing million fleg march of the tories.
    Thanks. That's interesting, so like I said yesterday: there is a patriot in you too.
    Yeah, an Irish one.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,145

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    He’s going to respond to the Uk paper from July. All he needs is a trusted trader scheme
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
    Fanatics can never be appeased, I agree with you. It is incremental steps. The national food strategy also talks about expanding the sugar tax, enforced reformulations and so on. None of this would affect the celebrity chefs who endorse it, or Henry Dimblebys Leon Group either. But it would impact on a large portion of the food industry that is not a stakeholder in this. It all seems somewhat pre-determined.
    I cannot see it making much difference. The big trend in recent years is people ordering junk food by Deliveroo etc. Too lazy to get off the sofa now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Went to my local BP garage at 6.45am this morning - zero queue and petrol all available, but still restricted to 20 litres each. He said that'd go next week.

    It's fizzling out.

    Turkeys are next. I was at the turkey farm yesterday for our weekly dog training, and their flock (or whatever the right term is) is only half the size of previous years. When it comes to ordering time there’s going to be a rush
    It is going to be a laugh if people panic buy turkeys.
    From upthread it appears that PB'ers already are.....
  • Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    One is a British Citizen and resident, the other is not. All British adults have a right to express political views.
    Strange from you! Do British kids not have the right to express political views? British ex-pats or foreign residents?

    It is a free country, all can express a view, including even foreign non residents, let alone the above groups. The issues with Murdoch has never been about him expressing a view, or what his view is, but his empire needed to be controlled to stop it becoming a monopoly, and his empires willingness to do things like phone hacking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
    Fanatics can never be appeased, I agree with you. It is incremental steps. The national food strategy also talks about expanding the sugar tax, enforced reformulations and so on. None of this would affect the celebrity chefs who endorse it, or Henry Dimblebys Leon Group either. But it would impact on a large portion of the food industry that is not a stakeholder in this. It all seems somewhat pre-determined.
    I cannot see it making much difference. The big trend in recent years is people ordering junk food by Deliveroo etc. Too lazy to get off the sofa now.
    The principal impact is manufacturers changing (improving) the composition of their products to reduce or remove the tax liability, rather than punters deciding to skip the product to avoid paying 10p more
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,640

    Lots of reporting that Ireland will lose €2 billion in tax revenue because of an increase in its corporate tax rate from 12.5% to 15%. In case anyone thinks this is some kind of Laffer curve effect, it’s not. The revenue loss stems from another aspect of the global agreement....

    This will see more sharing of profit-related taxes. For example some of the tax revenue Ireland raises from ads sold in Germany will now go to the German government.


    https://twitter.com/WhelanKarl/status/1446167406129393664?s=20

    Some estimates are much higher than €2bn, I remember seeing some research that it would be much closer to €15bn because companies that use Ireland as their European HQ will redomicile to the UK/Germany and other more relevant countries as governments will assert themselves and say you can't have a 1% revenue generating nation as your tax domicile any longer. That means lots of job movement from Ireland to the rest of Europe.

    I've heard that Apple are looking to make the UK it's new European HQ as it is already the defacto one anyway. It allows them to remove a cost centre in Ireland. Amazon are supposedly looking at UK/Germany split for their European HQ, German for retail and UK for AWS, shifting out of Luxembourg.

    There's going to be a lot more consequences for those countries that exist to allow companies to avoid tax than is currently thought. Ireland in particular is going to lose a lot of high value jobs to the UK and Germany.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,745
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
    Fanatics can never be appeased, I agree with you. It is incremental steps. The national food strategy also talks about expanding the sugar tax, enforced reformulations and so on. None of this would affect the celebrity chefs who endorse it, or Henry Dimblebys Leon Group either. But it would impact on a large portion of the food industry that is not a stakeholder in this. It all seems somewhat pre-determined.
    I cannot see it making much difference. The big trend in recent years is people ordering junk food by Deliveroo etc. Too lazy to get off the sofa now.
    It may well do once prices start increasing for so-called Junk food, and I say so-called as there is really no legal definition of Junk Food, it is HFSS food, and some food ordered via Deliveroo (which is not available everywhere BTW) is healthy.

    I suspect in 20 years time it will be markedly different. We already have councils refusing licenses to open new takeaways for any number of spurious reasons. It is always small steps but a big change in our food and govt regulating our food, is happening under the guise of the environment and public health.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services

    Free for over 50s not over 60s (I was surprised when I arrived to be told it was free).
    I had mine yesterday, and am waiting for any side effects.

    The lady in Boots said they are having to restrict appointments now as supply of the vaccine is being hampered by the general driver/fuel crisis.
    Chances are if you're 'waiting for side effects' you'll get them.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 15,834
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    I'm with you. There's things about the country I love, and I'm comfortable here because I know how stuff works and I speak the language, but saying I love England would be a weird to me as saying I love my dishwasher.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,145
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    Taz said:

    Meat consumption has fallen in the last 10 years by 17%.

    Although this is not anywhere near enough for the National Food Strategy which seems to have endorsements from various celebrity chefs and Quangocrats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58831636

    That's a shame to see such a big contraction in meat consumption and I will ensure I do my bit to keep the rate up.

    F**k the vegan extremists infiltrating 'science' for their own agenda.
    The rise and rise of plant-based is Good News for meat lovers. It was simply impossible to keep up with demands for land and water use to feed a growing world population with meat. That meant that pressures on both the environment and on producers resulted in cheaper lower quality meat.

    Plant-Based is £600m+ in the UK, growing double-digit percentages year after year after year with no signs of slowing. That creates the breathing room the meat industry needs to get its house in order. Once plant-based sweeps away the need for shite meat - the Iceland value own brand end of the market - meat can go back to being quality.
    You're assuming those people don't want absolute victory.

    I think they do.
    The next generation always wins in the end, regardless of oldies howling at the moon. Live with it. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,250
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.

    Who you are born to is also an accident of life, but you do tend to love your Mum and Dad. I am invested in England in a way that I am not anywhere else. It's where I come from, where my kids come from, where my parents and grandparents etc came from. That has created something inside me that I just cannot feel for anywhere else. Perhaps it is irrational (though I don't think so), but it is what it is.

    It's both irrational and rational - you can visit the most objectively awful places and find that local people feel an attachment to them, despite the evident truth that living almost anywhere else would be better; if such people are lucky enough to move somewhere better, they still pine for the pleasures of the windswept plague-ridden hellhole from whence they came. (what it is about south Essex that does this I do not know)

    Which becomes rational when you consider that it has enabled people to spread across the planet rather than all moving to the south of France and California
    I'm currently reading (and thoroughly enjoying) Ellis Peters' Cadfael books. Cadfael is a monk, living in Shrewsbury in the 1100s. He was born in Wales, and Peters' writes very well of his love for his home country, even whilst he lives across the border in England. He seems to get an utter joy on the rare occasion he gets to speak in Welsh. His heart is Welsh.

    On another point: my Aussie ex's dad was from London, after the war. I think he was one of the ten pound poms. He expressed a dislike for England, and had no interest of revisiting the bombed-out haunts of his youth. Yet in Melbourne he went to an English-themed pub, where lots of other British people went. He liked English food, despite being a rather good cook. He was a fervent supporter of West Ham. He supported England at cricket, except when they played Australia. Yet he'd walk about how much he disliked an England that had changed massively in the decades since he knew it.
  • Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    The difference is that Rashford is using his soft power to speak up for people who don't have a voice, children and poor children especially. Murdoch has always wielded his power solely for personal profit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
    He was pretty clear that if Britain invoked Article 16 then there would be EU economic counter measures.

    But it was ok when the EU invoked it?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    I'm with you. There's things about the country I love, and I'm comfortable here because I know how stuff works and I speak the language, but saying I love England would be a weird to me as saying I love my dishwasher.

    I do love my dishwasher, though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,378
    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Germany today

    22,000 cases and 411 deaths

    A statistical blip? Or their luck running out?

    Well, hard to know for sure. They're nowhere near as vaccinated (particularly in the East) as France/Spain/Italy/etc., so they're potentially pretty vulnerable.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they had a nasty Autumn in Thuringia/Mecklenerg/etc.
    411 deaths is a huge leap from their "normal", tho their number of daily deaths WAS slowly rising, likewise cases

    As we all know one of the habits of Covid is to seek out countries which have been a *tiny bit smug* about their Covid handling, and give them a spanking. As a lesson. Perhaps now it is Germany's turn
    Having spent nearly three weeks there this year, I don’t think smug is a fair description. It’s the only place I have been where observance of precautions is consistent, and challenged if you forget; in towns and cities I kept coming across free testing points and vaccination stations, with small queues of properly distanced people waiting for them.

    If Germany’s figures do go poor (and a sudden jump in daily deaths is more likely to be random fluctuation since a worsening situation should see a progressive change) the more accurate conclusion is that the new variant is sufficiently contagious that we are now wasting our time with all the precautions.
    Agreed re Germans’ behaviour: conformance to the rules is astounding. Definitely not “smug” as Sean claims. Like most things, they take Covid very seriously.
    Haven't heard Merkel going on about world beating anything. Imagine if Britain had Germany's relatively somewhat better numbers compared to some neighbours, Johnson would be claiming credit every day

    Also Leon's death figures are just wrong.
    Happy to believe you know better based on where you are - I think Leon has the numbers from Worldometer. Is there a suggestion that there has been so data revision? I saw that Germany thinks it has miscounted how many its vaccinated, for instance. Have they dumped a load of historic cases and deaths out on the 7th, and made it look like a spike?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 18,867

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    I don't think anyone should be guided in their politics by what celebrities think. There is however a difference between using the soft power of celebrity status and being rich enough to control some of the few print communication channels. I don't mind the fact that Abba (many years ago) performed at the centre-right Folkeparti party conference, even though I like Abba and don't especially like the Folkeparti. But if they'd bought a couple of major Swedish newspapers and churned out Folkeparti propaganda day after day, I'd have been pretty annoyed.

    The issue isn't soft power - people will be influenced in their voting by all sorts of funny things, and in the end it's up to them. The issue is the limited number of newspapers (which also influence the atgenda of the broadcasters) and the fact that they are controlled partly by foreign billionaires for political purposes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    One is a British Citizen and resident, the other is not. All British adults have a right to express political views.
    Replace with any other influential British citizen then
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,378
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Maybe because Rashford is not using it for personal gain?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,250

    Things I love about England (not as a lefty, but perhaps as a liberal):

    I cannot define any particular reason, and there are things that I don't particularly like about it. However, it is my home. I feel happy here, in any part of it. England is like a comfort blanket, warm and pleasant. Whenever I've travelled elsewhere, I find myself thinking of home.

    I could point to our rich history, that lays over the land like a tapestry. But other countries have just as much of that, if not more. I could point to the friendliness of the people, but most countries have that as well, if you approach as a friend. I could point out the fact we punch above our weight: but other countries do that as well. I could point out that I love exploring it by foot, seeking out unusual nooks and crannies. But other countries would offer that as well.

    I just love England (and, also the UK - I have a fond affinity for Scotland; for some reason, less so for Wales or NI).

    It is, and always will be, my home.

    Yes, I feel much the same.

    I think it has to start with a love of its physicality - its geography, topography, and features; its sense of place. To that I could add all its human-added features on top: pubs, churches, thatched cottages, vernacular architecture, the beauty of its groomed gardens, postboxes and post offices, and roadsigns, the patchwork quilt of farmed arable land, the hedgerows, the network of footpaths and byways, its lush deciduous woods, its chalk rivers, the echoes of familiar wildlife, and its deep rich and multilayered history going back well over 1,000 years - and more. You know you're part of something strong, timeless, stable and deep-rooted. Safe.

    When I fly back to the UK and see the white cliffs underneath the plane as I cross the channel I get the same feeling I do as when I go to my mum and dad's for Christmas - it's the warm familiarity and pleasantly cocooned feeling of being back home. And it's marvellous.
    I once travelled up the ECML to Newcastle listening to a Texan astonished at the variety of countryside and scenery.
    When I did the Pennine Way, I walked for a few days with a gent from Utah. He was amazed by the scenery, and summed it up thus: The US has grander scenery, but you have to travel for days to get between different types of scenery. You have some superlative desert, than three days of boring desert before you reach something else of interest. On just one day of the Pennine Way, you can go through two or three very different grand types of scenery. And the variety enhances the beauty.

    (I think he was referring to the Malham-Horton in Ribblesdale stretch.)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    My point is that he is becoming a “player” in the political field but one without a democratic mandate.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,640
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
    He was pretty clear that if Britain invoked Article 16 then there would be EU economic counter measures.

    But it was ok when the EU invoked it?
    In retrospect Frost completely ran rings around the EU team. A16 has been a game changer for the UK wrt NI protocol. It's given the UK a way to fight back against the EU not holding up their end of the bargain vs the May did which had no countermeasures against the EU just refusing to do what they agreed to.
  • felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimT said:

    One thing I am not clued up on is the idea of the immune system being weakened over the last 18 months by not being so exposed to pathogens. Lots of people suggesting this, but how true is it? Does the immune system need constant work outs?

    With flu isn't it simply the case that the virus is continually mutating, therefore the longer you go without being in contact the latest flu variants the more likely you are to encounter a markedly different variety and the less beneficial your previously acquired immune response will be?
    No, actually. That would be more true for viruses with more continuous evolutionary paths, like coronaviruses. Flus have that, but the major thing is that they completely flip the H and N proteins between multiple versions of each. So evolution of phenotype is not smooth, but jumps from one to the other. That is why exposure to last year's flu does not confer protection against this year's.

    So with flu, the key is not whether this year's flu is similar to last year's, but whether the H and N proteins have been seen in a generation or not.
    The rate of flu vaccination in the over 60s is also likely to be higher than normal, I think ?
    The problem though is anticipating the flu strain. We normally get 6 months notice because we see what the Australians get in their winter, but not this year.
    Understood, which is why the 60k worst case estimate is not ridiculous - equally the numbers could be abnormally low.
    I think the Uk mistake is the abandonment of masks - here in Spain they remain completely compulsory in shps, offices, etc. Although not perfect they will prevent a lot of infections imho.
    Still required in Wales.
    Or they were earlier this week.
    In the main mask wearing in this part of Wales has disappeared even in much reduced in the supermarkets, though of course it does seem to be observed in medical locations

    Mrs C and I were in Anglesey until last Tuesday and masks in shops and when entering or leaving restaurants seemed to be normal practice. In fact, when I went to pay for petrol not wearing one I realised I wouldn't be let in to the shop area without one, so had to go back to the car to get it.
    They'd only let me have £30 worth, but as that was all I needed.......
    I have not seen anyone prevented from going into a shop without a mask and to be honest there is an absence of anyone even bothering at the entrance to Asda

    There certainly are no enforcement officers around
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,530

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    I'm with you. There's things about the country I love, and I'm comfortable here because I know how stuff works and I speak the language, but saying I love England would be a weird to me as saying I love my dishwasher.

    I do love my dishwasher, though.
    I do hope you mean that in a platonic sense!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 20,324

    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services

    Thanks Carlotta, much appreciated. I assume the jab gets recorded and added to your GP's records?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,250
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    My point is that he is becoming a “player” in the political field but one without a democratic mandate.
    I was kind-of agreeing with you. Whilst use of such pressure is fine if you agree with cause, it can be slightly more troublesome if you do not.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.

    Who you are born to is also an accident of life, but you do tend to love your Mum and Dad. I am invested in England in a way that I am not anywhere else. It's where I come from, where my kids come from, where my parents and grandparents etc came from. That has created something inside me that I just cannot feel for anywhere else. Perhaps it is irrational (though I don't think so), but it is what it is.

    It's both irrational and rational - you can visit the most objectively awful places and find that local people feel an attachment to them, despite the evident truth that living almost anywhere else would be better; if such people are lucky enough to move somewhere better, they still pine for the pleasures of the windswept plague-ridden hellhole from whence they came. (what it is about south Essex that does this I do not know)

    Which becomes rational when you consider that it has enabled people to spread across the planet rather than all moving to the south of France and California
    I'm currently reading (and thoroughly enjoying) Ellis Peters' Cadfael books. Cadfael is a monk, living in Shrewsbury in the 1100s. He was born in Wales, and Peters' writes very well of his love for his home country, even whilst he lives across the border in England. He seems to get an utter joy on the rare occasion he gets to speak in Welsh. His heart is Welsh.

    On another point: my Aussie ex's dad was from London, after the war. I think he was one of the ten pound poms. He expressed a dislike for England, and had no interest of revisiting the bombed-out haunts of his youth. Yet in Melbourne he went to an English-themed pub, where lots of other British people went. He liked English food, despite being a rather good cook. He was a fervent supporter of West Ham. He supported England at cricket, except when they played Australia. Yet he'd walk about how much he disliked an England that had changed massively in the decades since he knew it.
    Expats do seem to have a habit of creating a self image of their nationality that is a mix of how things had been when they left and a caricature of an exaggerated nationalism, and then getting extraordinarily attached to it. We saw it from the bunch of expat Brexiters we had on here a few years back. I wonder where they went?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,614
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Just watching Question Time (I know, sad). Interestingly, Boris's conference speech was absolutely slammed by the panel and by the audience. Even Nadhim Zahawi couldn't think of anything good to say about it, and seemed rather taken aback by the vitriol expressed by the audience.

    Boris needs to be careful: he's starting to get the reputation that you only go to him for laughs.
    I've been surprised by how many right wingish news columns and so on have been negative about his speech.

    From the point of view of a section of the right, Boris has outlived his use.
    That's his biggest danger. The papers choose the PM.
    They don't. The public do and as long as Boris leads the polls he is in no danger.

    Most people don't read the papers anymore anyway in the social media and internet age
    Political social media is crammed full of people sharing political output from newspapers. The papers set tones and narratives that are found in social media.
    And yeah, I'm counting news websites as "the papers". Don't @ me.
    It is not news sites that determine Boris' future but opinion polls. All Tory MPs care about is keeping their seats, as long as Boris leads the polls he is in no danger, if he falls behind he is in danger. It was the poor post Poll Tax polls that did for Thatcher in 1990 and IDS' poor polling that did for him in 2003.

    Otherwise provided the Tories stay in the lead Boris will stay PM and Tory leader until the next general election. Then the voters will decide if he is re elected or replaced by Starmer, if the latter then the Tories would dump him after that
    Yup, and those who have the power to move public opinion hold the whip.
    Now is the time, get someone more reliable in who doesn't make such weird choices. Get someone a bit stuffy and sensible at the helm.
    We had someone stuffy and sensible before, Theresa May. She lost her majority hence Boris got the job.

    If voters want someone stuffy and sensible they will vote for Starmer
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    For those who haven't had it yet the Flu Jab now available - I found it very easy to organise via Boots - and free for over-60s:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58836218

    https://www.boots.com/online/pharmacy-services/winter-flu-jab-services

    Thanks Carlotta, much appreciated. I assume the jab gets recorded and added to your GP's records?
    Yes, that's what Boots told me
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 15,834

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    I'm with you. There's things about the country I love, and I'm comfortable here because I know how stuff works and I speak the language, but saying I love England would be a weird to me as saying I love my dishwasher.

    I do love my dishwasher, though.
    I find mine increasingly grabby and ungrateful. I think it just sees me as a source of rinse aid topups.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
    He was pretty clear that if Britain invoked Article 16 then there would be EU economic counter measures.

    But it was ok when the EU invoked it?
    You won't find me saying that, but if they had stuck to it then we would have been justified in countermeasures.

    I am old enough to remember when being British involved keeping our word*. We signed the NI protocol, therefore we should stick to it. The only issues are of how to administer it.

    *myth rather than reality, of course!
  • eekeek Posts: 18,777

    Well, to round off this week - no defectors, and China not at war with Taiwan, but the big news - LibDems won in Cranleigh East, by 903 to 608. This was a split ward last time (2 LD 1 Con) and Labour didn't stand this time (we got 6.4% last time), giving an effective Con-LD swing of 10%, or 8.4% if we assume that half the Labour vote turned out for the LibDems (as I think is likely). It was intensely fought, with 4 Tory MPs involved.

    That seems like a lot of MPs for a by-election in a council with NOC...
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    One thing that might help Labour in a small way - the extraordinary sight of Alastair Campbell presenting GMB.

    My gf and Mother in Law were saying how much they disliked the new presenter, and it took about five mins before they could remember his name; when I told them he practically ran the country when Tony Blair was PM, and was one of the main campaigners for the second referendum, they had no idea - they just thought he was a boring presenter. I’d say millions of people are watching him push his political agenda & propaganda each morning with unaware who he really is. He even interviewed Blair the other week! Amazing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331
    edited October 2021
    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    I dont know why you wouldn't get it, even if you don't share it. It's incredibly common the world over that people feel closer connection to their place or birth or where they were raised, even if theres objectively crappy things about it.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,719

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Maybe because Rashford is not using it for personal gain?
    He lives a life of extraordinary luxury, he has an MBE and a hononary degree. Each month he earns another £1million. There is not a lot more he could gain.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    edited October 2021
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    My point is that he is becoming a “player” in the political field but one without a democratic mandate.
    Though he does have tremendous public support. Isn't that a mandate?

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/marcus-rashford-most-likely-be-doing-good-job-holding-governments-coronavirus-response-account
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,378

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Maybe because Rashford is not using it for personal gain?
    He lives a life of extraordinary luxury, he has an MBE and a hononary degree. Each month he earns another £1million. There is not a lot more he could gain.
    Is that different from Murdoch? Is he not very wealthy?
  • eekeek Posts: 18,777
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to see that Ireland has very quietly announced that it is raising corporation tax to 15% in 2023 to align with Biden's global minimum tax initiative.

    I do wonder how the parasite countries will keep going with the "taxed in country of business" rules because it means Apple UK paying UK corporation tax rather than whatever 0.1% deal they have with Ireland.

    Interesting to note too that the first major thing Ireland's 'allies' in the EU have done post-Brexit is force it to raise corporation tax and to smash their business model.

    Who could have foreseen that? 🤔
    You must be mistaken, there's no way that the EU would ever do that to Ireland. Unity of the 27, Brexit means Brexit, Northern Ireland, Unity, UNITY!

    I am taking a small amount of joy over Ireland getting ritually shafted by their EU "allies" over this tax stuff and soon the NI protocol as the EU decides that trade with the UK is worth more to the 26 than Irish membership is and really, it's probably better for Ireland to leave the EU and sort out it's border issues with the UK separately and outside of the EU.

    Add in Biden the Irishman proposing this tax initiative and also clearly giving no fucks about the situation with the Irish border other than a bit of lip service for the Irish democratic caucus and you can't help but smile after the last five years of Varadker pompously banging on about a United Ireland and overriding the unionist/republican consensus in NI.
    After hubris comes nemesis goes the saying.

    The issue was Varadkar's hubris.
    Well, let's see. What I understood from Sefcovic was that he was willing to discuss how to implement the NI protocol, he was not going to remove it.
    Sefcovic doesn't have a choice, he's backed into a corner. If he doesn't negotiate to remove it (or "implement" it via finding ways to get rid of it, like trusted trader schemes that should have always been front and centre) then the Article 16 button gets pressed and its gotten rid of anyway.
    He was pretty clear that if Britain invoked Article 16 then there would be EU economic counter measures.

    But it was ok when the EU invoked it?
    You won't find me saying that, but if they had stuck to it then we would have been justified in countermeasures.

    I am old enough to remember when being British involved keeping our word*. We signed the NI protocol, therefore we should stick to it. The only issues are of how to administer it.

    *myth rather than reality, of course!
    I think we signed to the protocol on the basis that there was a trusted members scheme that did all the hard work.

    If that part of the protocol doesn't exist trying to implement a half finished protocol isn't the best plan.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,442
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
    If people didn't fight over land and territory they'd fight over something else - status, values, resource allocation, elitism or rights.

    It's a total fallacy to say that "religions and nations are behind all wars", although a very common one in the erstwhile intelligent internationalist Left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331
    The story of meat consumption confused me as I was unclear from the start if it meant there were government or national targets being missed. If it's just a target from.campaigners or guidance from a public body that should be more up front.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    The following groups are among those eligible for winter vaccines:

    over-50s (Covid booster and flu jab)
    younger people with health conditions (Covid booster and flu jab)
    health and care workers (Covid booster and flu jab)
    pregnant women (flu jab)
    two- to 16-year-olds (flu jab)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.

    Who you are born to is also an accident of life, but you do tend to love your Mum and Dad. I am invested in England in a way that I am not anywhere else. It's where I come from, where my kids come from, where my parents and grandparents etc came from. That has created something inside me that I just cannot feel for anywhere else. Perhaps it is irrational (though I don't think so), but it is what it is.

    Such feeling is irrational to some extent, like anything to do with borders, but if not universal its extremely common and for many just part of the human condition to get attached to places and people.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,442
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    Well, you should get it because I've just explained it to you.

    You'll be shaped by those factors more than you realise. I suspect your problem is that you don't want to admit it, still less its validity, because you want to think you're above it all.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 27,676
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Disagree, Mr C. An interest in politics, and how the country runs, should not be confined to those who are willing or able to run for office.

    Apart from any other consideration, how else would this site function? Or even exist?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    The difference is that Rashford is using his soft power to speak up for people who don't have a voice, children and poor children especially. Murdoch has always wielded his power solely for personal profit.
    Ok. So the difference is that you approve of Rashford and disapprove of Murdoch?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317
    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    I dont know why you wouldn't get it, even if you don't share it. It's incredibly common the world over that people feel closer connection to their place or birth or where they were raised, even if theres objectively crappy things about it.
    The fanaticism of the Afghans or Somalis shows that! People will fight to the death for barren fly blown crap holes.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
    If people didn't fight over land and territory they'd fight over something else - status, values, resource allocation, elitism or rights.

    It's a total fallacy to say that "religions and nations are behind all wars", although a very common one in the erstwhile intelligent internationalist Left.
    Pretending that some sort of supreme being is on your side and that the other lot are blaspheming infidels deserving of a horrible death tends not to improve matters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331
    edited October 2021
    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    You are upsetting the England love in , please desist. My only surprise is 1966 , Dunkirk , the blitz or BoB not mentioned yet but no doubt it will come.
    I don't think he was upsetting the England love in so much as the concept of anyone doing a country love in.

    I'm sure you don't know people with a strong emotional attachment to their country, other than England, though.
  • Selebian said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    I'm with you. There's things about the country I love, and I'm comfortable here because I know how stuff works and I speak the language, but saying I love England would be a weird to me as saying I love my dishwasher.

    I do love my dishwasher, though.
    I do hope you mean that in a platonic sense!
    I don't know, it's quite an intense feeling. When other people (ie my wife) fill it up, and get it all wrong, I feel kind of violated.
    Also, we used to have a rubbish dishwasher. When we got our kitchen done, the dishwasher was the only appliance where I insisted on a reasonably high end model. It has really paid off, I am still blown away by how good it is. It's kind of miraculous, actually. Dirty stuff in, clean stuff out. If only everything in life were as reliable.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    Maybe because Rashford is not using it for personal gain?
    It must be a nice fuzzy feeling from being the darling of the left/media though
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 39,709
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    I dont know why you wouldn't get it, even if you don't share it. It's incredibly common the world over that people feel closer connection to their place or birth or where they were raised, even if theres objectively crappy things about it.
    The fanaticism of the Afghans or Somalis shows that! People will fight to the death for barren fly blown crap holes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_the_Kingdom_of_Scotland
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,331

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
    If people didn't fight over land and territory they'd fight over something else - status, values, resource allocation, elitism or rights.

    It's a total fallacy to say that "religions and nations are behind all wars", although a very common one in the erstwhile intelligent internationalist Left.
    And while culture can with difficulty change and lead to less conflict, or less destructive forms of conflict, it's not exactly a solution if the solution requires an end to very common human behaviours. It's one reason utopian and revolutionary ideals can be doomed to fail.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 27,676

    felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimT said:

    One thing I am not clued up on is the idea of the immune system being weakened over the last 18 months by not being so exposed to pathogens. Lots of people suggesting this, but how true is it? Does the immune system need constant work outs?

    With flu isn't it simply the case that the virus is continually mutating, therefore the longer you go without being in contact the latest flu variants the more likely you are to encounter a markedly different variety and the less beneficial your previously acquired immune response will be?
    No, actually. That would be more true for viruses with more continuous evolutionary paths, like coronaviruses. Flus have that, but the major thing is that they completely flip the H and N proteins between multiple versions of each. So evolution of phenotype is not smooth, but jumps from one to the other. That is why exposure to last year's flu does not confer protection against this year's.

    So with flu, the key is not whether this year's flu is similar to last year's, but whether the H and N proteins have been seen in a generation or not.
    The rate of flu vaccination in the over 60s is also likely to be higher than normal, I think ?
    The problem though is anticipating the flu strain. We normally get 6 months notice because we see what the Australians get in their winter, but not this year.
    Understood, which is why the 60k worst case estimate is not ridiculous - equally the numbers could be abnormally low.
    I think the Uk mistake is the abandonment of masks - here in Spain they remain completely compulsory in shps, offices, etc. Although not perfect they will prevent a lot of infections imho.
    Still required in Wales.
    Or they were earlier this week.
    In the main mask wearing in this part of Wales has disappeared even in much reduced in the supermarkets, though of course it does seem to be observed in medical locations

    Mrs C and I were in Anglesey until last Tuesday and masks in shops and when entering or leaving restaurants seemed to be normal practice. In fact, when I went to pay for petrol not wearing one I realised I wouldn't be let in to the shop area without one, so had to go back to the car to get it.
    They'd only let me have £30 worth, but as that was all I needed.......
    I have not seen anyone prevented from going into a shop without a mask and to be honest there is an absence of anyone even bothering at the entrance to Asda

    There certainly are no enforcement officers around
    I don't remember seeing anyone actually stopped from entering, but there were plenty of 'mask required' in garden centres (which for some reason my in-laws seem to frequent) in both Anglesey and Caernarfon.
    And as far as I recall most people wore them. Including shop staff.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,379
    Dr. Foxy, "I am old enough to remember when being British involved keeping our word".

    Had that been true with the 2005 General Election promises for a referendum on Lisbon then we would be in a very different world right now...
  • Roger said:

    Thanks for the header. A timely reminder of just how disreputable those who now sit at the top table are. Every element is there in plain sight. I sincerely hope Starmer gets his act together so he gets the opportunity to hammer this message home. The facts on the ground are certainly going to help him.

    How on earth was it disreputable, that video is quite appropriate and accurate.

    The UK's deficit for the foreseeable future has been blown wide open protecting the NHS from a global pandemic, and that's after reclaiming the net contributions we were paying into the EU. The deficit would be even worse if we were still having to make billions in EU membership stipends.

    And just imagine how much we'd be contributing as the EU budget keeps expanding. Now there's this trillions in Covid recovery scheme and no doubt as always we'd have been massive net contributors to that, as that's how it always worked out despite promises to the contrary.

    No, thank goodness we got out just in time to protect the NHS from this pandemic. If we were still in, the crisis in our public finances would have been considerably worse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    My point is that he is becoming a “player” in the political field but one without a democratic mandate.
    I was kind-of agreeing with you. Whilst use of such pressure is fine if you agree with cause, it can be slightly more troublesome if you do not.
    I’m relaxed about a celebrity pushing one cause… when it begins to become multiple causes from a consistent political perspective it is more troubling
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,442
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
    If people didn't fight over land and territory they'd fight over something else - status, values, resource allocation, elitism or rights.

    It's a total fallacy to say that "religions and nations are behind all wars", although a very common one in the erstwhile intelligent internationalist Left.
    Pretending that some sort of supreme being is on your side and that the other lot are blaspheming infidels deserving of a horrible death tends not to improve matters.
    Yes, some people have those values but others have other values that have similar qualities and effects - for example, deifying global governance, historical racial sin, climate puritanism, and non-tribal tribalism.

    Orwell's article (posted on here yesterday) alluded to this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,614
    edited October 2021

    Foxy said:

    A variation on the "Tories are dying out" myth:

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1446372280846725157?s=20

    I think she is right though. While in general people become more right wing with age, that doesn't equate to Unionism.
    If she was right then in the 7 years since the referendum we should have seen a steady shift in favour of independence. We haven't.
    It should be possible to test.

    Check the eg 35-44 polling of a decade ago, compare against the 45-54 of today. Normalise the results for any swing, then see if the age profile has changed.
    According to the latest Comres Yes leads 53% to 47% amongst 45-54s (No leads 52% to 48% overall).
    https://2sjjwunnql41ia7ki31qqub1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/38028217_Final_Wgt_20210909_v1_Private.xlsx

    In the actual 2014 referendum Yes led 53% to 47% for No amongst 35-44s, so zero change
    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf

    However 45 to 54s were 52% Yes in 2014, now 55 to 64s are 60% No and many of the former category are now in the latter
  • kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I love England because it is where I am from. For all its faults and failures, it is my family in a way that nowhere else could ever be. I am invested in it like nowhere else on earth. Although there are many other places for which I have very deep affection they can never be a part of me like England is.

    I don't get it. Where you are born is an accident of life. I love stuff from England and hate stuff from England just like I do for everywhere.

    The only bias I have is generally supporting England or GB in sporting events and even that can be lost if not played in a sporting way.
    Why does something become meaningless just because it's an "accident of life" ?

    You don't choose your parents, your genes or even your personality - those are also all "accidents of life". And I'd argue that even attraction isn't really a choice.

    Human beings aren't wholly fungible biological organisms churned out agnostically by a central processing plant somewhere, and then randomly allocated.

    We feel, think and belong and then we choose but just because we can't and don't choose everything that makes us who are today doesn't mean it doesn't have any validity.
    I said I didn't get it. I didn't say it wasn't normal. Clearly it is because I appreciate I am in a small minority.
    And the pros and cons if more were like me:

    Less wars (pro)
    A near emotionally arid world (con)
    If people didn't fight over land and territory they'd fight over something else - status, values, resource allocation, elitism or rights.

    It's a total fallacy to say that "religions and nations are behind all wars", although a very common one in the erstwhile intelligent internationalist Left.
    I misread your first example as statues by mistake at first.

    It still worked.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    As is often the case, it's interesting to consider the other side.

    Rashford's a celebrity now, and he's using soft power to exert political pressure.
    If you agree with the cause he's championing, that's great.
    But imagine he's championing a cause you don't agree with. One you vehemently disagree with, but which others agree with.
    Is using soft power to exert political pressure wrong then?
    My point is that he is becoming a “player” in the political field but one without a democratic mandate.
    Weren’t you calling for Rashford to ‘shut the fuck up’ a few days ago? Otoh I don’t remember you calling for citizen of nowhere Rupe to butt out of UK politics. Does that mean you’re a hypocrite of the right?
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Charles said:

    Rashford comes out against UC cut. Interview on BBC Breakfast tomorrow.

    Government and Sunak in particular about to be hit by the full broadside.

    I hear Graham Stringer is going to defect.

    May be he should stand in the by-election?
    Here's the link from the BBC website to Saint Marcus's latest BBC Breakfast appearance, for those who are interested.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-58833429
    I was thinking about it this morning

    Marcus Rashford has a lot of “soft power” which he is using to intervene politically

    So does Rupert Murdoch

    But the hypocrites on the left cheer one on while condemning the other

    They should both run for election if they want to get involved in politics
    The difference is that Rashford is using his soft power to speak up for people who don't have a voice, children and poor children especially. Murdoch has always wielded his power solely for personal profit.
    Ok. So the difference is that you approve of Rashford and disapprove of Murdoch?
    I approve of people doing things I think are worthy of approval, and disapprove of people doing things I think are worthy of disapproval. I know this is a highly unique kind of position to have, especially on an Internet site where people spend most of their time expressing approval or disapproval of things, so I can only apologise for this shocking breach of protocol.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,745
    edited October 2021
    kle4 said:

    The story of meat consumption confused me as I was unclear from the start if it meant there were government or national targets being missed. If it's just a target from.campaigners or guidance from a public body that should be more up front.

    It was a government commissioned report led by a friend of the Johnsons, Henry Dimbleby, and it came up with recommendations for the government to consider.

    Many of its proposals will not be new, they have been touted by various health lobby campaign groups for a while now. They were going to propose a so-called junk food ad ban but the govt pipped them to the post with that. A pointless initiative given the research carried out by the group lobbying for it said it would remove 3 calories a day from a persons diet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,317

    Dr. Foxy, "I am old enough to remember when being British involved keeping our word".

    Had that been true with the 2005 General Election promises for a referendum on Lisbon then we would be in a very different world right now...

    I did point out that it was myth rather than reality!

    Nonetheless ignoring an agreement that we signed up to just months before does show new heights of mendacity.

    Now if we want to list aspects of Britain that I hate...

    But we only hate because we care that things should be much better. The opposite of love is not hate, but apathy.

This discussion has been closed.