So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Its when people can't get Pigs in Blankets that the complaining will start.
Pigs in Blankets? Luxury. When I was a young pig, we didn't even have beds to sleep on, we just had to wallow in the mud.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
And the moral is that money (in this case higher wages) can't buy you everything. If the necessary employees don't exist in the UK, they don't exist. So the brute economics is that some value has to be destroyed, and some farmers have to have their livelihoods messed up/ruined, just so the government can Make A Point.
In the medium-to-long term, money can create new supply- in this case, more people who can turn pigs into yummy things like pork, bacon and sausages. (In this case, it probably won't, it's just that there will be fewer pigs raised in the UK and more from abroad. I really don't understand why it's OK to undercut British workers by importing products freely, but not OK to import people to make and do things in the UK.) But in the short term, all money can do is move you up the queue. Right now, it doesn't change the capacity you are queuing for. Someone will always be beyond the cutoff for this year.
And the trouble with Boris, and Rishi, and Dominic (because let's face it, he's still responsible) is that they've always been able to buy their way to the VIP queue, and I don't think any of them understand that it doesn't - it can't - work like that for everyone.
“I really don't understand why it's OK to undercut British workers by importing products freely, but not OK to import people to make and do things in the UK.) “
Because the people imported need housing, health services, those that have kids need school places for them, and so on, and that creates social tension between the immigrants and the indigenous population. So if the same level of undercutting happens, the latter is worse
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
Anyone watching Foundation? If so, do you care how much it is already diverging from the books?
I've always found Asimov very clunky / unsubtle as an author.
As in the story in Foundation (??) where his device to disguise one of the characters to get him where he wasn't allowed to go was to send him in on cuban heels to make him 1 inch taller.
Very like the arguments between American evangelicals and militant atheists. Both are so absurd that the solution is probably to bang their heads together at 60mph.
Also tremendously egotistico-pompous. Head and shoulders below Arthur C Clarke.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
The culled pigs won't go into the food chain. They'll be incinerated or rendered. A criminal waste of good food.
I know.. its just i was baulking against the endless negativity on this site.
Asked about Lab leaders, Jacob Rees Mogg tells CapX fringe, that Angela Rayner is "quite spirited" but he does not think "mere abuse" is an effective political strategy.
GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.
Its total value added with adjustments for direct taxes. You are correct that that is the total economic output of the country, but revenue is not the total economic output of a company, because some of it is just covering the cost of inputs. Gross output is the measure equivalent to revenue for countries.
Say I live up North and I'm an entrepreneur. I buy brushes and polish for £25, buy a £50 day return ticket to London, do 100 shoe shines charging £2 each, skip lunch, spend £8 on fish & chips in the paper (with mushy peas) and eat it walking back to my cosy studio. And that's it. That's my financial footprint for the day, nothing else. How much have I added to GDP?
As a good Muslim I'm not sure what my position should be on the pig cull.
To stop considering yourself a good Muslim and tuck in?
I've always followed Leviticus and Deuteronomy on this.
Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
Equally. Why work in an abbatoir, surrounded by screams and blood and faeces and innards and death weapons and bile and brains and disturbed workmates with poor mental health and huge knives and electric saws and lungs and Covid and twitching death rattles when you don’t bloody well have to?
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
Yes, of course that's right, and Covid has had a huge impact. But my point was that this week the government is arguing that some of the problems we are facing are a direct consequence of a Brexit designed to restructure our economy, and that this is a good thing for the future of the country. It's a legitimate argument, but it can't co-exist comfortably with the "nothing to do with Brexit" rhetoric that is often spouted in the media and elsewhere. The debate has shifted, that's all.
GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.
Its total value added with adjustments for direct taxes. You are correct that that is the total economic output of the country, but revenue is not the total economic output of a company, because some of it is just covering the cost of inputs. Gross output is the measure equivalent to revenue for countries.
Say I live up North and I'm an entrepreneur. I buy brushes and polish for £25, buy a £50 day return ticket to London, do 100 shoe shines charging £2 each, skip lunch, spend £8 on fish & chips in the paper (with mushy peas) and eat it walking back to my cosy studio. And that's it. That's my financial footprint for the day, nothing else. How much have I added to GDP?
£8 on fish and chips? Can't be up North. Mushy peas? Can't be down South. Nowt moist. Hmmm.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
The culled pigs won't go into the food chain. They'll be incinerated or rendered. A criminal waste of good food.
I know.. its just i was baulking against the endless negativity on this site.
You the guy who keeps whining that peeps aren't saying nice fings about Bowis?.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Re the child abuse in the Catholic Church in France.
This is an appalling moral stain on the church precisely because it seeks to claim moral authority. The fact that plenty of other institutions have had child abuse does not detract from the crimes of those priests nor the total failure of the church authorities to stop it or be honest about it but rather to cover it up as much as possible.
The fact that some churches have now introduced safeguards for the future does not give anyone a free pass to ignore what happened in the past.
What those priests did was a crime and, frankly, where possible, they should be prosecuted for it. The senior leadership which turned a blind eye to it or covered it up are also either accessories to crimes or have behaved in a morally repellent way.
I am a Catholic. But I am not going to excuse my church when it behaves like this. The individuals who behaved wrongly need to be brought to account. The senior hierarchy which pretended this did not matter needs to be got rid of. I feel about this as I do about the police and about those who commit crimes against women and then seek to ignore them or minimise them or pretend that things are different now.
I do not frankly know whether those at the top of the Church are capable of making the changes needed. What I know of Vatican politics (which is more than I would like to, having done a few Vatican-related investigations) is that the place is an absolute snake pit in which the tenets of Christianity seem to be almost entirely absent.
There are a couple of other observations I would make.
1. Predators will use any and every opportunity they can to identify and target prey. That is a lesson which needs to be learned by all of us and not just in relation to the church and child abuse. I fear it is not.
2. I notice that Boris said today that he would not make misogyny a hate crime because it would "overwhelm" the police. Curious reasoning this - to argue that the worse a problem is the less should be done about it. On that basis nothing should be done about child abuse because it would overwhelm the police. Or, if the number of migrants crossing the Channel becomes too many, there's no point doing anything. Quite bizarre.
I am not a particular fan of the whole hate crime category. But if you are going to have it but then exclude crimes against 52% of the population you are signalling that you think them less important than other groups, that women don't matter as much. You are signalling to abusers of women that what they do is not that bad. Either get rid of all the categories or include women. The current position is absurd and insulting.
Women matter. Children matter. It is long past the time we both said so and acted on our words.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Truly feeble. Would a fire in an oil refinery be a non story because the oil was due to be burned anyway?
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
You need to stop digging a hole for yourself and just admit that culling and then incinerating animals meant for supermarkets is wrong .
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.
The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
I say! Both Marquee Mark and I are Moth-ers, trapping and recording moths year after year for the national databases. Now whilst I am absolutely a geek I would not say that either of us are odd. At least not in that way.
If you want to see how extensive such pursuits are then take a look at (for example) iRecord.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
Doesn't mean its a good thing. You'll justify anything.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Truly feeble. Would a fire in an oil refinery be a non story because the oil was due to be burned anyway?
Indeed. 250 dead in a plane crash or terrorist attack. Well, they'd all have died eventually anyways.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
You need to stop digging a hole for yourself and just admit that culling and then incinerating animals meant for supermarkets is wrong .
Although a few large holes in the countryside might come in useful.
GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.
Its total value added with adjustments for direct taxes. You are correct that that is the total economic output of the country, but revenue is not the total economic output of a company, because some of it is just covering the cost of inputs. Gross output is the measure equivalent to revenue for countries.
Say I live up North and I'm an entrepreneur. I buy brushes and polish for £25, buy a £50 day return ticket to London, do 100 shoe shines charging £2 each, skip lunch, spend £8 on fish & chips in the paper (with mushy peas) and eat it walking back to my cosy studio. And that's it. That's my financial footprint for the day, nothing else. How much have I added to GDP?
£8 on fish and chips? Can't be up North. Mushy peas? Can't be down South. Nowt moist. Hmmm.
Drat! Tried to make it a totally realistic and credible case study.
So, my first stab at my contribution to GDP - is it £283?
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
Waste is generally thought to be a percentage of turnover, and not 100%
The signs of independent thought you showed over the NI hike seem to have been a flash in the pan.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine and independent overview which would be helpful
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
As a good Muslim I'm not sure what my position should be on the pig cull.
To stop considering yourself a good Muslim and tuck in?
I've always followed Leviticus and Deuteronomy on this.
Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
As a good Muslim I'm not sure what my position should be on the pig cull.
To stop considering yourself a good Muslim and tuck in?
I've always followed Leviticus and Deuteronomy on this.
Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
FAKE NEWS! Why would Allah (SWT) in all his infinite wisdom create "unclean" animals???
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
Waste is generally thought to be a percentage of turnover, and not 100%
The signs of independent thought you showed over the NI hike seem to have been a flash in the pan.
Saying "I don't give a fuck" about this waste is independent thought isn't it?
Who else is giving an official line so frank as opposed to some meally mouthed teethy bullshit?
I quite fancy a bacon sandwich at the moment. No sauce though 👍
Is it even a bacon sandwich if there's no red sauce?
No sauce on a bacon butty. Unless its shite bacon the sauce takes away from the taste.
I normally have HP on a bacon butty, but the last couple of months I've had loads of things to pickle from my garden. I'm now having these various pickles with everything instead of any sauce, even the bacon butties. My pickles are much nicer.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
There is a simple way to decide this. Do you believe that if everything else had happened exactly the same way except Brexit the situation would be any different in terms of haulage issues and petrol issues than it is now?
I would suggest that if you claim it would of been different in any meaningful way then it is incumbent upon you to show how?
We would still have had the massive covid disruption (and probably would have had it worse because the failings of our own Government would have been exacerbated by the mess the EU initially made of the vaccine rollout.)
We would still have had all those lorry drivers trying to get home before Christmas last year and failing because the French had shut their borders.
We would still have the atrocious conditions that the drivers suffer in this country no matter what their nationality.
We would still have had the pingdemic and the stupidity of forcing people who were double jabbed to isolate.
We would still have a Europe wide shortage of drivers which is one reason why so few have taken up the chance to come back now the Government is allowing more in.
We would still have the idiotic Government energy policy that has pursued unreliable renewables without ensuring there was a backup of something more reliable for when the wind didn't blow and the sun didn't shine.
Note this is in no way a defence of the Government - most of these things I mention have been caused or exacerbated by poor Government going back over many years. But if you want to start claiming this is primarily due to Brexit then you have to try and show how things would have been better if we were still in the EU.
@RTENewsAtOne NEW: Ireland is seeking assurances from the European Commission that it won't force the country to further raise its corporate tax rate in the future if it agrees to the OECD deal to increase this tax from 12.5% to 15%
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Have we done the EU discussions regarding offering 5000 UK HGV drivers 5 year EU work permits?
It is worth noting that the recipients of those 5,000 work permits will have won the HGV lottery.
They will be able to work across the EEA and the UK, taking packages from wherever to wherever. They will have much higher utilization than UK-only drivers, and somewhat higher than EEA-only drivers.
One would expect, of course, that they'll only spend about 15% of their time in the UK. So their impact on the local HGV market will be limited.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
MEAT IS MURDER!
FRANKLY, MR. SHANKLY WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.
The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
I say! Both Marquee Mark and I are Moth-ers, trapping and recording moths year after year for the national databases. Now whilst I am absolutely a geek I would not say that either of us are odd. At least not in that way.
If you want to see how extensive such pursuits are then take a look at (for example) iRecord.
There is odd, and there is *odd*. Nothing wrong with the former. I've been known to go out moth recording too, although mainly to arrange access for the real experts to a specific site and not to do any formal identification as such. Micro moths are too hard...
I'm not a big fan of iRecord, although my view of it might be coloured by having to filter a pile of it for plant records and finding a fairly large proportion of incorrect identifications. It might be different for moths as photographs are (probably) a bit more definitive, at least for the macros. The NBN (https://nbnatlas.org/) is barely any better. Not enough experts!
One day soon we'll be DNA sampling everything in the field anyway...
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
Equally. Why work in an abbatoir, surrounded by screams and blood and faeces and innards and death weapons and bile and brains and disturbed workmates with poor mental health and huge knives and electric saws and lungs and Covid and twitching death rattles when you don’t bloody well have to?
I worked in an abattoir in the summer holidays a couple of times when I was at university. I lived in Devon at the time and it was the only big employer locally that would give summer jobs to students.
It was hard work, but not traumatically so; I am a farmer’ son though so perhaps I was just used to that sort of thing growing up.
I quite fancy a bacon sandwich at the moment. No sauce though 👍
Is it even a bacon sandwich if there's no red sauce?
No sauce on a bacon butty. Unless its shite bacon the sauce takes away from the taste.
Don't be ridiculous.
I know! Some very odd things get said on here at times.
Obviously the correct way to eat a bacon sandwich is two slices of white bread, lightly buttered, crisp bacon, topped with a spoonful of mushy peas. Cut the sandwich in half, not diagonal.
For a Billingsgate breakfast add one very large seared scallop.
Have we done the EU discussions regarding offering 5000 UK HGV drivers 5 year EU work permits?
It is worth noting that the recipients of those 5,000 work permits will have won the HGV lottery.
They will be able to work across the EEA and the UK, taking packages from wherever to wherever. They will have much higher utilization than UK-only drivers, and somewhat higher than EEA-only drivers.
One would expect, of course, that they'll only spend about 15% of their time in the UK. So their impact on the local HGV market will be limited.
It is interesting that the truckers union in France is demanding talks over HGV drivers pay in view of the increasing wages in the UK as quite a gulf is developing
France facing lorry driver crisis as Macron shamed over wages 'Look at Britain!'
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
I think that's right. There's also the inevitable issue that - historically - a British HGV driver could go from Walsall to Warsaw to Waterloo (Belgium) to Wank (Germany) to Wimbledon. Now, he's going to have a lot more empty trips if he's taking products to or from the EU. That's an absolute reduction in his productivity, and means that users of transportation will end up paying more for stuff to be shipped around.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
MEAT IS MURDER!
FRANKLY, MR. SHANKLY WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Truly feeble. Would a fire in an oil refinery be a non story because the oil was due to be burned anyway?
If it was a controlled fire, deliberately set by the business, then yes it would. Even if it hadn't been their plan in the first place.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
MEAT IS MURDER!
FRANKLY, MR. SHANKLY WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.
Can you calculate "value added" for a country?
GDP = C + I + G
i.e. consumption, investment and government spending.
So it is well beyond value-added (or corporate profits/EBITDA). 100% of wages end up as one of those 3, as do investment income and government deficit borrowing (unless I am wrong on this last point).
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.
The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
Oh, one can collaborate with someone in a lab to get the right combination of skills. I know people who do that (more generally).
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
You have the right to be offended. Some people are offended by foul language or sex on TV but I still enjoyed Tits & Dragons [except its last season wasn't too good]
If the farmers wish to be paid for their pigs then they can pay a working rate for abattoirs to afford staff on a decent days wage. If they expect to hire staff for £9.12 per hour on a night shift then that offends me every bit as much as the food waste offends you.
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.
The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
Oh, one can collaborate with someone in a lab to get the right combination of skills. I know people who do that (more generally).
Citizen science labs are quite a thing in the US. Mostly parents trying to get their kids a head start in STEM subjects, but quite a few amateur adult synthetic biologists. The community labs can give you access to quite sophisticated equipment and increasingly these labs have arrangements with faculty in local unis to provide expertise (and safety advice).
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
How about horse apple enthusiasts?
Never heard of them! One learns on PB.
Interesting, SSI. Never knew them as horse apples. Known solely as osage in these parts.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Truly feeble. Would a fire in an oil refinery be a non story because the oil was due to be burned anyway?
Still a nice variation on the oldies dying of Covid would have died of oldieness anyway pov.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
They'll need a very large cesspit for 120,000 porkers. Wasted.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
MEAT IS MURDER!
FRANKLY, MR. SHANKLY WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
Bigmouth Strikes Again.
That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore.
I left the north again I travelled south again I got confused I killed a horse I can’t help the way I feel
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.
The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
I say! Both Marquee Mark and I are Moth-ers, trapping and recording moths year after year for the national databases. Now whilst I am absolutely a geek I would not say that either of us are odd. At least not in that way.
If you want to see how extensive such pursuits are then take a look at (for example) iRecord.
There is odd, and there is *odd*. Nothing wrong with the former. I've been known to go out moth recording too, although mainly to arrange access for the real experts to a specific site and not to do any formal identification as such. Micro moths are too hard...
I'm not a big fan of iRecord, although my view of it might be coloured by having to filter a pile of it for plant records and finding a fairly large proportion of incorrect identifications. It might be different for moths as photographs are (probably) a bit more definitive, at least for the macros. The NBN (https://nbnatlas.org/) is barely any better. Not enough experts!
One day soon we'll be DNA sampling everything in the field anyway...
I am fortunate in that the moth 'checker' for iRecord in my area is also the Vice County Moth Recorder so it means that I can get good IDs as long as I photograph and upload everything. And I photograph EVERYTHING when it comes to moths. I take on average 3-4000 photos a month through the March - October period. Less in the winter months.
How many are sows/boars, and what age do they got slaughtered at?
Hang on a mo. I Googled cos I thought Big G raised an interesting point I hadn't really considered. I'm no expert on the topic.
I didn't imagine you would be! I reckon I could have a decent stab at working out how much it is with that info, then be able to tell you if it were "a lot"
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
How about horse apple enthusiasts?
Never heard of them! One learns on PB.
Interesting, SSI. Never knew them as horse apples. Known solely as osage in these parts.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
Completely 100% disagreed.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
OK - I know they don't matter but more likes for a post about pigs than one about child abuse and crimes against women?
On that I can agree with you.
Some people's priorities are messed up.
But I will point out that the reason I don't care about the animals dying is because its more important to raise the living standards for the people getting exploited by the system currently. Exploitation isn't as serious as crimes against women, but its more important than food waste in my eyes.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
Completely 100% disagreed.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
Moral hazard is a bad policy.
What has the farmer done wrong? It is the abattoir which has failed.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
Have we done the EU discussions regarding offering 5000 UK HGV drivers 5 year EU work permits?
It is worth noting that the recipients of those 5,000 work permits will have won the HGV lottery.
They will be able to work across the EEA and the UK, taking packages from wherever to wherever. They will have much higher utilization than UK-only drivers, and somewhat higher than EEA-only drivers.
One would expect, of course, that they'll only spend about 15% of their time in the UK. So their impact on the local HGV market will be limited.
It is interesting that the truckers union in France is demanding talks over HGV drivers pay in view of the increasing wages in the UK as quite a gulf is developing
France facing lorry driver crisis as Macron shamed over wages 'Look at Britain!'
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
It is a fair point and I regret the situation as good food going to waste is wrong
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine an independent overview which would be helpful
What percentage of waste would be acceptable out of interest?
To be honest that is not the point of my question
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
No, but it's the question I asked.
I gave you my answer but I also want to know the extent of the problem and how to resolve it
It is a fair question
4.75 million pigs in UK. 120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
Completely 100% disagreed.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
Moral hazard is a bad policy.
What has the farmer done wrong? It is the abattoir which has failed.
The farmer isn't paying the abattoir enough for the abattoir to pay their staff enough.
If moral hazard exists in the system because the stock can't be allowed to be destroyed they've no incentive to pay the abattoirs more.
If the farmers know the stock will be destroyed and they'll lose their revenues unless they pay enough to the abattoirs then the abattoirs can pay for staff and the system works again.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
If they are being wasted it is not a non-story, if hardly tragic.
Food waste has always happened. Its not normally news, so why is this? 🤷♂️
The farmers are not being paid for their pigs. So they are losing assets and income.
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
You have the right to be offended. Some people are offended by foul language or sex on TV but I still enjoyed Tits & Dragons [except its last season wasn't too good]
If the farmers wish to be paid for their pigs then they can pay a working rate for abattoirs to afford staff on a decent days wage. If they expect to hire staff for £9.12 per hour on a night shift then that offends me every bit as much as the food waste offends you.
What abattoirs? We shut most of them down more than a decade ago because of new EU and UK regulations. There was once a network of smaller abattoirs across the country but they could not afford all the new bureaucracy and so only the big ones managed to survive and charged a hell of a lot more to meet their new regulatory requirements. They are also often much further away from the farms which increased costs even more.
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
Completely 100% disagreed.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....
2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.
3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.
No wonder I'm confused.
I have heard many government figures blaming the pandemic and the new economy conditions as we recover. Clearly it’s complicated, but no one should be under any illusion that it is all down to Brexit or all down to Covid. I think Brexit has magnified a situation that was coming the hgv drivers (see global shortage) and that the return to growth after Covid is also causing issues. Significantly some one suggested that the growth of home delivery in the U.K., explicitly pushed by the government during the crisis, has made things worse here. Why drive an hgv and have shitty overnight stops when you can drive for Amazon and be at home every night?
I think that's right. There's also the inevitable issue that - historically - a British HGV driver could go from Walsall to Warsaw to Waterloo (Belgium) to Wank (Germany) to Wimbledon. Now, he's going to have a lot more empty trips if he's taking products to or from the EU. That's an absolute reduction in his productivity, and means that users of transportation will end up paying more for stuff to be shipped around.
A wank in Germany?
Maybe you should get off your Peleton now and go back to work? You are lowering the tone of our site. 🙂
So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
Pigs bred for meat are being killed.
Biggest non-story ever.
Not entirely.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
Completely 100% disagreed.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
Moral hazard is a bad policy.
Oh FFS. Abattoirs are not part of a farmer's operation, they are an external supplier which is very very heavily regulated by the state, which therefore has an obligation to see that they work. But you are back to your default the state = Bojo and therefore needs its balls licked as assiduously as possible (I must stop reading @Dura_Ace's posts) position.
Comments
Because the people imported need housing, health services, those that have kids need school places for them, and so on, and that creates social tension between the immigrants and the indigenous population. So if the same level of undercutting happens, the latter is worse
As in the story in Foundation (??) where his device to disguise one of the characters to get him where he wasn't allowed to go was to send him in on cuban heels to make him 1 inch taller.
Very like the arguments between American evangelicals and militant atheists. Both are so absurd that the solution is probably to bang their heads together at 60mph.
Also tremendously egotistico-pompous. Head and shoulders below Arthur C Clarke.
Asked about Lab leaders, Jacob Rees Mogg tells CapX fringe, that Angela Rayner is "quite spirited" but he does not think "mere abuse" is an effective political strategy.
"The scum always rises to the top," he jibes.
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1445453440423903235
Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
Mushy peas? Can't be down South. Nowt moist.
Hmmm.
Biggest non-story ever.
This is an appalling moral stain on the church precisely because it seeks to claim moral authority. The fact that plenty of other institutions have had child abuse does not detract from the crimes of those priests nor the total failure of the church authorities to stop it or be honest about it but rather to cover it up as much as possible.
The fact that some churches have now introduced safeguards for the future does not give anyone a free pass to ignore what happened in the past.
What those priests did was a crime and, frankly, where possible, they should be prosecuted for it. The senior leadership which turned a blind eye to it or covered it up are also either accessories to crimes or have behaved in a morally repellent way.
I am a Catholic. But I am not going to excuse my church when it behaves like this. The individuals who behaved wrongly need to be brought to account. The senior hierarchy which pretended this did not matter needs to be got rid of. I feel about this as I do about the police and about those who commit crimes against women and then seek to ignore them or minimise them or pretend that things are different now.
I do not frankly know whether those at the top of the Church are capable of making the changes needed. What I know of Vatican politics (which is more than I would like to, having done a few Vatican-related investigations) is that the place is an absolute snake pit in which the tenets of Christianity seem to be almost entirely absent.
There are a couple of other observations I would make.
1. Predators will use any and every opportunity they can to identify and target prey. That is a lesson which needs to be learned by all of us and not just in relation to the church and child abuse. I fear it is not.
2. I notice that Boris said today that he would not make misogyny a hate crime because it would "overwhelm" the police. Curious reasoning this - to argue that the worse a problem is the less should be done about it. On that basis nothing should be done about child abuse because it would overwhelm the police. Or, if the number of migrants crossing the Channel becomes too many, there's no point doing anything. Quite bizarre.
I am not a particular fan of the whole hate crime category. But if you are going to have it but then exclude crimes against 52% of the population you are signalling that you think them less important than other groups, that women don't matter as much. You are signalling to abusers of women that what they do is not that bad. Either get rid of all the categories or include women. The current position is absurd and insulting.
Women matter. Children matter. It is long past the time we both said so and acted on our words.
All the rest is empty noise.
If you want to see how extensive such pursuits are then take a look at (for example) iRecord.
https://www.brc.ac.uk/irecord/
Meat which could be sold to consumers here and overseas is not being sold. So others in the food supply chain are also losing income.
And perfectly good food is wasted, which really offends me.
Well, they'd all have died eventually anyways.
There is a moral difference between raising a pig to be killed and eaten and one that is killed and dumped. It may not be much of a difference, and nobody is asking the pig, but there is a difference between cruelty with a purpose (even if that purpose is bacon sandwiches) and cruelty without.
It's also worth thinking about this from the point of view of the farmer. I don't know the details, but it's likely that some farmers are going to lose a lot financially because of this. You may be OK with that, but I'm not sure I am.
And finally, there is the point that @Cyclefree wisely made upthread. This is a waste of potential food. Those of us of a certain age remember any such waste being described as "wicked". If there's food available to feed people, you damn well make sure it gets into the bellies of people who need it. By all means taper the availability of foreign staff, if that's your policy. But if government policy leads to us destroying pigs rather than eating them, it's a bad policy, whatever point the government wishes to make.
So, my first stab at my contribution to GDP - is it £283?
The signs of independent thought you showed over the NI hike seem to have been a flash in the pan.
However, I do not know the pig industry and therefore are we saying all the UK pigs are being sacrificed and their farmers or is this some and if so how much of the industry in total
I am sure there are those in our midst who can provide a genuine and independent overview which would be helpful
I said I regret good food going to waste but I am seeking to find out just how big the issue is
Is it 100% of our pig production or 5% and what is needed to resolve the issue
Who else is giving an official line so frank as opposed to some meally mouthed teethy bullshit?
It is a fair question
I would suggest that if you claim it would of been different in any meaningful way then it is incumbent upon you to show how?
We would still have had the massive covid disruption (and probably would have had it worse because the failings of our own Government would have been exacerbated by the mess the EU initially made of the vaccine rollout.)
We would still have had all those lorry drivers trying to get home before Christmas last year and failing because the French had shut their borders.
We would still have the atrocious conditions that the drivers suffer in this country no matter what their nationality.
We would still have had the pingdemic and the stupidity of forcing people who were double jabbed to isolate.
We would still have a Europe wide shortage of drivers which is one reason why so few have taken up the chance to come back now the Government is allowing more in.
We would still have the idiotic Government energy policy that has pursued unreliable renewables without ensuring there was a backup of something more reliable for when the wind didn't blow and the sun didn't shine.
Note this is in no way a defence of the Government - most of these things I mention have been caused or exacerbated by poor Government going back over many years. But if you want to start claiming this is primarily due to Brexit then you have to try and show how things would have been better if we were still in the EU.
NEW: Ireland is seeking assurances from the European Commission that it won't force the country to further raise its corporate tax rate in the future if it agrees to the OECD deal to increase this tax from 12.5% to 15%
https://twitter.com/RTENewsAtOne/status/1445364282305175554
They will be able to work across the EEA and the UK, taking packages from wherever to wherever. They will have much higher utilization than UK-only drivers, and somewhat higher than EEA-only drivers.
One would expect, of course, that they'll only spend about 15% of their time in the UK. So their impact on the local HGV market will be limited.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
I'm not a big fan of iRecord, although my view of it might be coloured by having to filter a pile of it for plant records and finding a fairly large proportion of incorrect identifications. It might be different for moths as photographs are (probably) a bit more definitive, at least for the macros. The NBN (https://nbnatlas.org/) is barely any better. Not enough experts!
One day soon we'll be DNA sampling everything in the field anyway...
It was hard work, but not traumatically so; I am a farmer’ son though so perhaps I was just used to that sort of thing growing up.
France facing lorry driver crisis as Macron shamed over wages 'Look at Britain!'
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1501168/emmanuel-macron-french-lorry-drivers-pay-rise-ccntr-brexit-boris-johnson-france-uk-1501168#ICID=Android_ExpressNewApp_AppShare
120,000 backlog according to this, growing by 12 000 per week.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/01/uk-pig-industry-warns-butcher-shortage-mass-cull
Is that a lot or not?
These are controlled killings, deliberately done.
i.e. consumption, investment and government spending.
So it is well beyond value-added (or corporate profits/EBITDA). 100% of wages end up as one of those 3, as do investment income and government deficit borrowing (unless I am wrong on this last point).
I'm no expert on the topic.
It is undesirable but is nothing like I assumed it was if we have 4.75 million pigs
I hope the visa quotas help to address the issue
Some people are offended by foul language or sex on TV but I still enjoyed Tits & Dragons [except its last season wasn't too good]
If the farmers wish to be paid for their pigs then they can pay a working rate for abattoirs to afford staff on a decent days wage. If they expect to hire staff for £9.12 per hour on a night shift then that offends me every bit as much as the food waste offends you.
I travelled south again
I got confused
I killed a horse
I can’t help the way I feel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_apple
Don't know if they have them in the States.
If farmers can't be allowed to fail and see their stock lost then that's creating moral hazard in the market.
Moral hazard is a bad policy.
Some people's priorities are messed up.
But I will point out that the reason I don't care about the animals dying is because its more important to raise the living standards for the people getting exploited by the system currently. Exploitation isn't as serious as crimes against women, but its more important than food waste in my eyes.
This is a transient excursion as the nuclear engineers like to put it. The results are unclear.
If moral hazard exists in the system because the stock can't be allowed to be destroyed they've no incentive to pay the abattoirs more.
If the farmers know the stock will be destroyed and they'll lose their revenues unless they pay enough to the abattoirs then the abattoirs can pay for staff and the system works again.
Maybe you should get off your Peleton now and go back to work? You are lowering the tone of our site. 🙂