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Truss once again topping the CONHome ratings – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,106
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    Some of my (amateur) naturalist acquaintances like to specialise in even more obscure things.

    One studies plant galls caused by wasps, which has a society, believe it or not...
    https://www.britishplantgallsociety.org/

    Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
    I never knew they were caused by wasps. That is quite interesting actually.
    Not all; but a lot.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    TimT said:

    Anyone watching Foundation? If so, do you care how much it is already diverging from the books?

    I'd never care about that so long as its good so would welcome impressions. I find it hard to picture how it would work as a show.
    Has Asimov ever been filmed successfully/well ?

    (Apparently he once wrote a script for a sci-fi rock musical at Paul McCartney's request, which the inmate never used.)
    That film about R. Daneel Olivaw. The name escapes me.
    I, Robot? Watched it, don't remember a thing about it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,557
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Thank God Justin is finally standing up for the forgotten.

    I think we should add Incel in there as well. That would manage to piss everyone off.
    I assume they come under Asexual Plus
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,654
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    TimT said:

    Anyone watching Foundation? If so, do you care how much it is already diverging from the books?

    I'd never care about that so long as its good so would welcome impressions. I find it hard to picture how it would work as a show.
    Has Asimov ever been filmed successfully/well ?

    (Apparently he once wrote a script for a sci-fi rock musical at Paul McCartney's request, which the inmate never used.)
    That film about R. Daneel Olivaw. The name escapes me.
    I, Robot.
    I don't regard that as a success.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    I have a copy of the book
    I remember seeing the calendar when it came out. There are some really good roundabouts these days. Artistic and aesthetic.
    PB is getting positively Proustian these days. I looked in that website and the first thing I saw was that roundabout at Swindon - I've only ever seen it once and that was walking to the bus station from a night spent camping on the Ridgeway. Had completely forgotten it for more than four decades.
    I went through it once, but it was around 1230am so no traffic.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    File me under "Trudeau's a twat"
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    A few years back I brought you the Pylon Appreciation Society, who collect information about everything electricity pylony.
    https://pylons.org/

    Now I give you the Telegraph Pole Appreciation Society!
    https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/

    We Brits are weird ...

    How did these societies emerge before the internet made it easier to find people with shared interests?

    We do appear to love clubs if any kind.
    There were home-made magazines/fanzines for people interested in things like this before the internet.
    There are no limits to what can achieve its own fan club, for example:

    http://www.allegroclubint.org.uk/

    I spent some time at the Lakeland motor museum recently. Awesome. I love these old cars. I love watching old tv shows like the sweeney, just for the cars.
    we keep teasing our grandchildren when we take them out that we are going to the Lakeland Pencil Museum. One day we might just do it.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited October 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    A final word: I would caution against comparing GDP and revenue. If a company buys a fish for $1.00 and sells it for $1.01, then that will count as $0.01 added to GDP, but $1.01 for the purposes of the company's revenues.

    Agreed it is not a straightforward comparison, but it is not as bad as that implies either, as companies' revenues do not* include internal pricing charges either.

    * Edit. Unless you're Enron or some such
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,955
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,702
    edited October 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    Some of my (amateur) naturalist acquaintances like to specialise in even more obscure things.

    One studies plant galls caused by wasps, which has a society, believe it or not...
    https://www.britishplantgallsociety.org/

    Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
    I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
    As an amateur pursuit it might be regarded as a bit odd, although I'm not saying it isn't interesting. More useful than roundabouts, perhaps. How the biochemistry works (hijacking genes in the host) is definitely worthy of serious study but is probably not something you could pursue as an individual.

    The UK has the best recorded flora and fauna of anywhere thanks to this tradition of having amateur naturalists who like nothing better than a nice empty list sheet, although of course it was at its height in the Victorian era. Based on the ones I know, it is definitely a bit on the geeky side...
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+".

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    Is he a deep sleeper double agent for an extreme reactionary group out to destroy progressive politics? Perhaps the blacking up was just prior to his recruitment?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,073

    Today's first doses: 37671

    Gives an excuse to post this:

    https://www.class37.co.uk/imagepage.aspx?strnumber=ar37671

    Doesn't OGH have a rule against posting pornography on this site? ;)
    Well here's one in its underwear...

    https://live.staticflickr.com/7328/9401978564_b4f3798d66.jpg

    Phwooooarrr!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,906
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    A few years back I brought you the Pylon Appreciation Society, who collect information about everything electricity pylony.
    https://pylons.org/

    Now I give you the Telegraph Pole Appreciation Society!
    https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/

    We Brits are weird ...

    How did these societies emerge before the internet made it easier to find people with shared interests?

    We do appear to love clubs if any kind.
    There were home-made magazines/fanzines for people interested in things like this before the internet.
    There are no limits to what can achieve its own fan club, for example:

    http://www.allegroclubint.org.uk/

    I spent some time at the Lakeland motor museum recently. Awesome. I love these old cars. I love watching old tv shows like the sweeney, just for the cars.
    we keep teasing our grandchildren when we take them out that we are going to the Lakeland Pencil Museum. One day we might just do it.
    Don't go there. One thing will lead to another.
    2B fair it is worth a visit.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Farooq said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+".

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    Is he a deep sleeper double agent for an extreme reactionary group out to destroy progressive politics? Perhaps the blacking up was just prior to his recruitment?
    Have you been affected by this tweet? Call free on 1-800-WHO-CARES
    Steady Justin, I was only joking!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,557
    edited October 2021

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+".

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    Is he a deep sleeper double agent for an extreme reactionary group out to destroy progressive politics? Perhaps the blacking up was just prior to his recruitment?
    Trudeau is the recently re elected world leader of the Woke movement it seems, alongside Jacinda Ardern and Sturgeon
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,087
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    A few years back I brought you the Pylon Appreciation Society, who collect information about everything electricity pylony.
    https://pylons.org/

    Now I give you the Telegraph Pole Appreciation Society!
    https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/

    We Brits are weird ...

    How did these societies emerge before the internet made it easier to find people with shared interests?

    We do appear to love clubs if any kind.
    There were home-made magazines/fanzines for people interested in things like this before the internet.
    There are no limits to what can achieve its own fan club, for example:

    http://www.allegroclubint.org.uk/

    I spent some time at the Lakeland motor museum recently. Awesome. I love these old cars. I love watching old tv shows like the sweeney, just for the cars.
    we keep teasing our grandchildren when we take them out that we are going to the Lakeland Pencil Museum. One day we might just do it.
    Don't go there. One thing will lead to another.
    A memory that will be easy for them to... erase.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    TimT said:

    Anyone watching Foundation? If so, do you care how much it is already diverging from the books?

    I'd never care about that so long as its good so would welcome impressions. I find it hard to picture how it would work as a show.
    Has Asimov ever been filmed successfully/well ?

    (Apparently he once wrote a script for a sci-fi rock musical at Paul McCartney's request, which the inmate never used.)
    That film about R. Daneel Olivaw. The name escapes me.
    I, Robot.
    I don't regard that as a success.
    The Laws of Robotics stories all have the problem that the Laws are crap, so stories about loopholes in them aren't interesting, just duh.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.

    Remember, this is the country that redefined understatement.

    "Events have not necessarily proceeded to our advantage....."
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Why do Asexual people need to be grouped under here? Surely they don't care enough as their approach is "meh".
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Why do Asexual people need to be grouped under here? Surely they don't care enough as their approach is "meh".
    Exclusionary.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,628

    dixiedean said:

    I'm now officially worried about inflation.

    PM strikingly dismissive about fears over inflation...

    Concerns are "unfounded", he told @BethRigby

    People have been "worried about inflation for a long time, it hasn't materialised" he told @bbclaurak

    "We've seen inflationary pressures come & go", he told @Peston


    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1445365796251832332

    There is an entire generation of politicians who treat inflation like some bogeyman from the past. Like cholera or smallpox.
    The only time I have ever seen my father ever worried about money/finances was Black Wednesday when interest rates went through the roof, and I've always known combating inflation is increasing interest rates.

    It was the primary reason I was dubious about taking a mortgage in 2000 at the age of 21.
    The last time a government really had to deal with inflation was John Major's time as Chancellor and PM. And Major's fate will be seared into BoJo's mind.

    The temptation for any politician- let alone a Power Of Optimism one like Bozza- to hope it will just go away must be huge.

    Maybe he'll get away with it.
    I'm not an economist but my friends who are tell me that when you've got huge government debts one thing that is useful is high inflation to partially inflate the debt away.

    Perhaps he sees inflation as a win/win scenario for him.
    Inflation is the policy. I said this was the case when Sunak froze the income tax thresholds for five years.

    If we get an average of 5% inflation per annum for five years then that puts £13,888 of their income into the higher rate tax bracket, and they'll be paying an extra £2,777 in income tax as a result. And then child benefit withdrawal too.

    Similar effect on lower earners who will see the personal allowance inflated away.

    And that's quite apart from all the problems that could arise if inflation gets out of control. Freezing the income tax thresholds for five years is a bigger tax increase than the National Insurance increase by far.
    The personal allowance inflated away isn't just lower earners it's all of us.
    Not everyone. High earners have no personal allowance.
    Don't worry only the PB fanbois earn in excess of £123,000 p a.
  • 34% of Wales and 35% of Scotland think Brexit has been a success

    Though only 18% in Northern Ireland unsurprisingly


    Savanta ComRes


    Success/failure of Brexit:

    England

    Success 37%
    Failure 50%

    Northern Ireland
    Success 18%
    Failure 74%

    Wales

    Success 34%
    Failure 58%

    Scotland

    Success 35%
    Failure 59%

    4:39 PM · Oct 4, 2021
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Why do Asexual people need to be grouped under here? Surely they don't care enough as their approach is "meh".
    They seem to not like being misunderstood. I'd expect there to be another two As in time, as the ARomantic and AGender people are added. I'm surprised Pansexual isn't already there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,359
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    O/T: some hope for Conservatives in that Johnson only scores just above Priti Patel, but the real shocker is the two most swivelly of swivelly-eyed nutjobs, Frost and Rees-Mogg right up at the top. The modern Conservative Party clearly still has more extremists in it than Labour under Corbyn if so many want to endorse these two!

    Neither Frost or JRM are as bad as Jezza.

    But.

    The people at the top of the list are the ones who make the Conservatives feel good about themselves, who tell the activists what they want to hear. In that sense, they are the mirror image of Corbyn.

    In some ways, fair enough. But at some point, all parties need someone to remind them that not everyone thinks like them, or they can't have what they want. To give him his due, BoJo does that with greenery.

    But who in the professional wing of the Conservative Party is left who is prepared to stand up to the activists?
    Look, the Tories have been in power for 11 years now.

    After 10 years in power all parties get a bit bored and less fresh and full of ideas. The activists too start to want a leader who is ideologically purer rather than to just stay in power for the sake of it.

    Labour however has been out of power for over a decade, so it is they whose leadership needs to stand up to activists more than the Tories
    Labour are out of power precisely because of your comments

    However, the conservative party's desire for power is much more pragmatic
    Was it so pragmatic when it picked Hague over Clarke after the 1997 defeat following 18 years in power and then followed that by picking IDS over Clarke and Portillo?

    Hague wasn't such an unreasonable choice if you ask me, I think he just got the job too young and was unfairly discriminated against by the electorate on the basis of his northern accent. But picking IDS was lunacy.
    You can also add picking Home over Butler in 1963.

    On the Labour side similarly picking Foot over Healey in 1980, Ed Miliband over David Miliband in 2010 and Corbyn over Burnham in 2015
    I think Miliband vs Miliband is a less extreme example, and I'm not only saying that because I voted for Ed!
    Had David won Cameron would likely not have got a majority in 2015, the Tory-LD coalition would probably have continued, there would have been no EU referendum in 2016 and no Brexit.

    New PM Osborne would be settling down to No 10 having narrowly beaten Corbyn in 2020 despite UKIP getting 20% of the vote (or else David Miliband could have stayed Labour leader having only narrowly lost and beaten Osborne and now be in No 10).

    Boris meanwhile would be finishing his biography of Shakespeare not running the country.

    Ed beating David had huge consequences
    Doesn't everything have huge consequences though? I think so. Apologies for a quick diversion but I got to pondering this the other week when I had a hole in one at golf. It happened at 11.37 am on Wednesday 22nd Sept. The 12th hole, 162 yards, 7 iron, sweet spot, high with a touch of fade, landed on, rolled and ... IN.

    My first and I'm sure last. I'm only an average player, about an 18, don't play that much, so you don't expect it to ever happen, it's massively unlikely. Such a buzz it was. Made me feel special, picked out by fate, as if I'd won the lottery or something. But as I continued to think about it, my thoughts took a bleaker turn. Rather than winning lotteries I started to think about other unlikely "special" things, such as plane crashes and bizarre diseases. If I could have a hole in one, if I was the sort who father fate was taking an interest in, could I also be in line for one of these?

    Had to stop that train of thought and the way I did so was by considering it from another angle. My shot went into the hole only because everything at the time and prior to it was just so. A fraction of a millimetre different on the clubface, a smidgen more or less force, a different golfball, the tiniest scintilla of a change in the wind or atmospheric pressure, not wearing a glove, wearing a different sweater or trousers, wearing y fronts instead of boxers, a traffic jam on the drive to the club, an apple instead of a banana for breakfast, then the night before etc, keep going back and back and further back, all the way to the womb and even before that - point being, any change at all would have meant no hole in one. My life led inexorably to the moment and the moment was created by my life. More than this, it was created by the whole of history since I live not in isolation but in deep nexus with all else.

    So, that cheered me up no end.
    I have often thought that about the euromillions. Great yes you won but now you are in the zone of 75m-1 risks happening to you. Eaten in your bath by a shark; meteorite wiping out your house, you contract an illness that has an, um, one in 75m chance of being contracted, etc...

    What btw are the odds of a hole in one?
    I hate to break it to you but by merely being alive and in the UK you're pretty darned close to the zone of 75m-1 already and you are every day of your life. Indeed as others have said, they'll happen all the time.

    I used to play a board game called Blood Bowl a lot and especially online people would blame 'bad beats' on 'bad luck' or a 'bad RNG' for rolling double skulls (snake-eyes or double 1) at an inopportune moment. Rolling that is unlikely (1/36) but if in the course of a typical game you roll around 100 pairs of dice, then the odds are you'll roll that 3 times on average. Sometimes more, sometimes less. So ultimately no, rolling that wasn't unlikely or unlucky.
    Pedants corner! Offered not as criticism but just for information.
    Your average number of double 6s in 100 rolls should be about 2.78.
    And I THINK the mode number of double 6s is actually likelier to be 2. Which is a little surprising since the average is a lot closer to 3, but we're back to that long-tail effect of averages which has come up before.
    Yes, just checked it
    0 = 5.977979%
    1 = 17.07994%
    2 = 24.15591%
    3 = 22.54552%
    4 = 15.62082%
    5 = 8.569138%
    6 = 3.876515%
    7 = 1.487316%
    8 = 0.4940013%
    9 = 0.1442798%
    What I want to know is how many double sixes make it a million-to-one shot?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Why do Asexual people need to be grouped under here? Surely they don't care enough as their approach is "meh".
    They seem to not like being misunderstood. I'd expect there to be another two As in time, as the ARomantic and AGender people are added. I'm surprised Pansexual isn't already there.
    Can we leave the bile and misunderstandings to Guido Fawkes' website please?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,359

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.

    Which China?
  • 34% of Wales and 35% of Scotland think Brexit has been a success

    Though only 18% in Northern Ireland unsurprisingly


    Savanta ComRes


    Success/failure of Brexit:

    England

    Success 37%
    Failure 50%

    Northern Ireland
    Success 18%
    Failure 74%

    Wales

    Success 34%
    Failure 58%

    Scotland

    Success 35%
    Failure 59%

    4:39 PM · Oct 4, 2021

    It's early days, and this might be a temporary negative spike like the Vaccine wars led to a temporary positive spike.

    But- if this becomes the settled opinion of the British electorate, what should the government do next?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,906

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+".

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    Yes, but appropriately so in the context of indigenous people's deaths in Canada.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.

    Which China?
    My Xiaomi phone exploded when it read that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,359
    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,865
    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Good god I'm getting old. I definitely don't know what 2 of those are and 2 others are now in doubt as they appear to be duplicates of others but probably aren't.
  • 34% of Wales and 35% of Scotland think Brexit has been a success

    Though only 18% in Northern Ireland unsurprisingly


    Savanta ComRes


    Success/failure of Brexit:

    England

    Success 37%
    Failure 50%

    Northern Ireland
    Success 18%
    Failure 74%

    Wales

    Success 34%
    Failure 58%

    Scotland

    Success 35%
    Failure 59%

    4:39 PM · Oct 4, 2021

    It's early days, and this might be a temporary negative spike like the Vaccine wars led to a temporary positive spike.

    But- if this becomes the settled opinion of the British electorate, what should the government do next?
    Continue it's policy of increasing wages and visa controlled worldwide immigration to meet our needs
  • Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    Some of my (amateur) naturalist acquaintances like to specialise in even more obscure things.

    One studies plant galls caused by wasps, which has a society, believe it or not...
    https://www.britishplantgallsociety.org/

    Sadly this kind of thing is on the decline. Too many other distractions for oddballs these days?
    I wouldn't regard even oak apple enthusiasts as oddballs. My biology teacher was a serious researcher into galls. Quite an insight into ecology for a teenager.
    How about horse apple enthusiasts?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    Heathener said:

    The western world is gradually waking up to the complexities and nuances of gender, and indeed sex in the sense that radical feminists use it.

    The fluidity of gender is a wonderful recognition, which many parts of the world east of here have known for thousands of years.

    If you don't understand something, perhaps instead of ranting about it you can learn. I know this doesn't come easy to old white men stuck like cement in their ways but it's perfectly possible if you make an effort.

    We respect nearly everyone on PB

    Just pineapple on Pizza, liking Radiohead or Python - those still put you on The List.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,554

    Today's first doses: 37671

    Gives an excuse to post this:

    https://www.class37.co.uk/imagepage.aspx?strnumber=ar37671

    Doesn't OGH have a rule against posting pornography on this site? ;)
    Well here's one in its underwear...

    https://live.staticflickr.com/7328/9401978564_b4f3798d66.jpg

    Pure filth
  • Heathener said:

    The western world is gradually waking up to the complexities and nuances of gender, and indeed sex in the sense that radical feminists use it.

    The fluidity of gender is a wonderful recognition, which many parts of the world east of here have known for thousands of years.

    If you don't understand something, perhaps instead of ranting about it you can learn. I know this doesn't come easy to old white men stuck like cement in their ways but it's perfectly possible if you make an effort.

    Your last sentence insults a large part of the population and is not helpful as you are creating unnecessary divisions
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,419
    isam said:

    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21

    Whiff of Cakeism here. Is this squeeze (thus whatever financial upside ensues for the low paid) a consequence of Brexit or not? It's not really respectable to say the positive aspect (higher wages) is due to Brexit but the negative aspect (chaos, shortages, higher prices) is not.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Heathener said:

    The western world is gradually waking up to the complexities and nuances of gender, and indeed sex in the sense that radical feminists use it.

    The fluidity of gender is a wonderful recognition, which many parts of the world east of here have known for thousands of years.

    If you don't understand something, perhaps instead of ranting about it you can learn. I know this doesn't come easy to old white men stuck like cement in their ways but it's perfectly possible if you make an effort.

    I'd ask for a refund mate, the fish'll never bite at that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    The western world is gradually waking up to the complexities and nuances of gender, and indeed sex in the sense that radical feminists use it.

    The fluidity of gender is a wonderful recognition, which many parts of the world east of here have known for thousands of years.

    If you don't understand something, perhaps instead of ranting about it you can learn. I know this doesn't come easy to old white men stuck like cement in their ways but it's perfectly possible if you make an effort.

    Yes, but you are the one implicitly claiming familiarity with Guido Fawkes' website. Most of us observe a touching pitch/being defiled correlation.

    Please share how you identify, and your choice of personal pronoun. I find this sort of thing just as fascinating as a vegan's in depth account of their historical relationship with meat.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.

    Which China?
    My Xiaomi phone exploded when it read that.
    For some reason mine has issued me joining instructions and told me to report to Xiamen immediately.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK cases by specimen date scaled to 100K

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK R

    image
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,554
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    I have a copy of the book
    I remember seeing the calendar when it came out. There are some really good roundabouts these days. Artistic and aesthetic.
    PB is getting positively Proustian these days. I looked in that website and the first thing I saw was that roundabout at Swindon - I've only ever seen it once and that was walking to the bus station from a night spent camping on the Ridgeway. Had completely forgotten it for more than four decades.
    I went through it once, but it was around 1230am so no traffic.
    It’s a great concept if you know how to use it. Any number of routes across it. Really confuses people on first encounter and as it’s by the footy ground* often away fan’s first experience of Swindon is absolute carnage on the roundabout...

    *aka the hallowed turf
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK case summary

    image
    image
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,087
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015

    Mr/Miss Heathener, for someone so keen on nuances of gender you certainly seem comfortable criticising men, the elderly, and white people.

    Any other casual bigotries you'd care to express?

    Morris are you saying there isn't a majority of elderly, white, reactionary men on PB?

    Take your best shot at what constitutes elderly (cf rich for tax purposes)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK deaths

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    UK R

    image
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015
    edited October 2021

    Heathener said:

    The western world is gradually waking up to the complexities and nuances of gender, and indeed sex in the sense that radical feminists use it.

    The fluidity of gender is a wonderful recognition, which many parts of the world east of here have known for thousands of years.

    If you don't understand something, perhaps instead of ranting about it you can learn. I know this doesn't come easy to old white men stuck like cement in their ways but it's perfectly possible if you make an effort.

    Your last sentence insults a large part of the population and is not helpful as you are creating unnecessary divisions
    Big G we've had it too good for too long. Like British factory bosses using Eastern European labour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,661
    Age related data scaled to 100K

    image
    image
    image
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015
    Oh god my last comments just got caught up in @Malmesbury's graph vortex.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015
    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,557

    34% of Wales and 35% of Scotland think Brexit has been a success

    Though only 18% in Northern Ireland unsurprisingly


    Savanta ComRes


    Success/failure of Brexit:

    England

    Success 37%
    Failure 50%

    Northern Ireland
    Success 18%
    Failure 74%

    Wales

    Success 34%
    Failure 58%

    Scotland

    Success 35%
    Failure 59%

    4:39 PM · Oct 4, 2021

    It's early days, and this might be a temporary negative spike like the Vaccine wars led to a temporary positive spike.

    But- if this becomes the settled opinion of the British electorate, what should the government do next?
    It will stick to its course as 58% of 2019 Conservative voters still think Brexit has been a success.

    If voters want something different and closer alignment to the SM and CU they will vote for Starmer, Davey and Sturgeon at the next general election

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1445048624535285767?s=20
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    rcs1000 said:

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/New-Japan-PM-Kishida-skeptical-China-will-qualify-to-join-CPTPP

    Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida expressed skepticism about China's qualification to join the CPTPP trade pact at his first press conference Monday, noting the bloc's tough free trade requirements.

    Kishida, who was formally elected prime minister that day, also stressed the need to improve missile defense for Japan.

    Which China?
    Don't be naive. Everyone knows there is only one China.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,871
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Foxy said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+".

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    Yes, but appropriately so in the context of indigenous people's deaths in Canada.
    "Deaths" is a somewhat mild euphemism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,871
    Put it another way, if Boris is at some big shindig like the G20 does he carve out half an hour to talk alone with the prime minister of Uruguay, Slovenia or the Honduras? No

    Does he carve out half an hour to be one on one with Zuckerberg? Yes
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,015
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
    It's interesting because without us it would be nothing.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21

    Whiff of Cakeism here. Is this squeeze (thus whatever financial upside ensues for the low paid) a consequence of Brexit or not? It's not really respectable to say the positive aspect (higher wages) is due to Brexit but the negative aspect (chaos, shortages, higher prices) is not.
    Changing the way the country runs just as a pandemic hits is not ideal obviously. Maybe had we known a pandemic were to strike, Brexit wouldn’t have happened.

    But, as it is, what is happening regarding labour shortages/businesses complaining etc is what I thought should happen all along, so I’m not complaining. You’ve got to break an egg to make an omelette, business owners are grieving the loss of all their betting accounts because they turned out to be arbers, and aren’t happy. It was good for them while it lasted though, some people never get to be rich
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,871
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
    It's interesting because without us it would be nothing.
    Yes and it’s sui generis. We’ve never encountered corporations with this kind of mega-power before. Even at their height, the great oil companies were trivial compared to the likes of Facebook today
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,419
    edited October 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Oh god my last comments just got caught up in @Malmesbury's graph vortex.

    You said this in the submerged comment -

    "Big G we've had it too good for too long. Like British factory bosses using Eastern European labour."

    Duly rescued, we will now see if anybody either disputes or develops.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,359
    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    IIRC, GDP measures gross value added across a country, excluding inflows and outflows from dividends, rent, financing, etc.

    Therefore I would suggest that the gross value add of a company - i.e. the sum of the output of its workers - is EBIT.

    GNP - which includes financing flows - would be a better compare for net profit.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,280

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    I have a copy of the book
    I remember seeing the calendar when it came out. There are some really good roundabouts these days. Artistic and aesthetic.
    PB is getting positively Proustian these days. I looked in that website and the first thing I saw was that roundabout at Swindon - I've only ever seen it once and that was walking to the bus station from a night spent camping on the Ridgeway. Had completely forgotten it for more than four decades.
    I went through it once, but it was around 1230am so no traffic.
    It’s a great concept if you know how to use it. Any number of routes across it. Really confuses people on first encounter and as it’s by the footy ground* often away fan’s first experience of Swindon is absolute carnage on the roundabout...

    *aka the hallowed turf
    I had no problem with it on the way into Swindon. On the way out I think I was a bit complacent, and ended up somewhere I did not want to be. Twice.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2021
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    O/T: some hope for Conservatives in that Johnson only scores just above Priti Patel, but the real shocker is the two most swivelly of swivelly-eyed nutjobs, Frost and Rees-Mogg right up at the top. The modern Conservative Party clearly still has more extremists in it than Labour under Corbyn if so many want to endorse these two!

    Neither Frost or JRM are as bad as Jezza.

    But.

    The people at the top of the list are the ones who make the Conservatives feel good about themselves, who tell the activists what they want to hear. In that sense, they are the mirror image of Corbyn.

    In some ways, fair enough. But at some point, all parties need someone to remind them that not everyone thinks like them, or they can't have what they want. To give him his due, BoJo does that with greenery.

    But who in the professional wing of the Conservative Party is left who is prepared to stand up to the activists?
    Look, the Tories have been in power for 11 years now.

    After 10 years in power all parties get a bit bored and less fresh and full of ideas. The activists too start to want a leader who is ideologically purer rather than to just stay in power for the sake of it.

    Labour however has been out of power for over a decade, so it is they whose leadership needs to stand up to activists more than the Tories
    Labour are out of power precisely because of your comments

    However, the conservative party's desire for power is much more pragmatic
    Was it so pragmatic when it picked Hague over Clarke after the 1997 defeat following 18 years in power and then followed that by picking IDS over Clarke and Portillo?

    Hague wasn't such an unreasonable choice if you ask me, I think he just got the job too young and was unfairly discriminated against by the electorate on the basis of his northern accent. But picking IDS was lunacy.
    You can also add picking Home over Butler in 1963.

    On the Labour side similarly picking Foot over Healey in 1980, Ed Miliband over David Miliband in 2010 and Corbyn over Burnham in 2015
    I think Miliband vs Miliband is a less extreme example, and I'm not only saying that because I voted for Ed!
    Had David won Cameron would likely not have got a majority in 2015, the Tory-LD coalition would probably have continued, there would have been no EU referendum in 2016 and no Brexit.

    New PM Osborne would be settling down to No 10 having narrowly beaten Corbyn in 2020 despite UKIP getting 20% of the vote (or else David Miliband could have stayed Labour leader having only narrowly lost and beaten Osborne and now be in No 10).

    Boris meanwhile would be finishing his biography of Shakespeare not running the country.

    Ed beating David had huge consequences
    Doesn't everything have huge consequences though? I think so. Apologies for a quick diversion but I got to pondering this the other week when I had a hole in one at golf. It happened at 11.37 am on Wednesday 22nd Sept. The 12th hole, 162 yards, 7 iron, sweet spot, high with a touch of fade, landed on, rolled and ... IN.

    My first and I'm sure last. I'm only an average player, about an 18, don't play that much, so you don't expect it to ever happen, it's massively unlikely. Such a buzz it was. Made me feel special, picked out by fate, as if I'd won the lottery or something. But as I continued to think about it, my thoughts took a bleaker turn. Rather than winning lotteries I started to think about other unlikely "special" things, such as plane crashes and bizarre diseases. If I could have a hole in one, if I was the sort who father fate was taking an interest in, could I also be in line for one of these?

    Had to stop that train of thought and the way I did so was by considering it from another angle. My shot went into the hole only because everything at the time and prior to it was just so. A fraction of a millimetre different on the clubface, a smidgen more or less force, a different golfball, the tiniest scintilla of a change in the wind or atmospheric pressure, not wearing a glove, wearing a different sweater or trousers, wearing y fronts instead of boxers, a traffic jam on the drive to the club, an apple instead of a banana for breakfast, then the night before etc, keep going back and back and further back, all the way to the womb and even before that - point being, any change at all would have meant no hole in one. My life led inexorably to the moment and the moment was created by my life. More than this, it was created by the whole of history since I live not in isolation but in deep nexus with all else.

    So, that cheered me up no end.
    I have often thought that about the euromillions. Great yes you won but now you are in the zone of 75m-1 risks happening to you. Eaten in your bath by a shark; meteorite wiping out your house, you contract an illness that has an, um, one in 75m chance of being contracted, etc...

    What btw are the odds of a hole in one?
    I hate to break it to you but by merely being alive and in the UK you're pretty darned close to the zone of 75m-1 already and you are every day of your life. Indeed as others have said, they'll happen all the time.

    I used to play a board game called Blood Bowl a lot and especially online people would blame 'bad beats' on 'bad luck' or a 'bad RNG' for rolling double skulls (snake-eyes or double 1) at an inopportune moment. Rolling that is unlikely (1/36) but if in the course of a typical game you roll around 100 pairs of dice, then the odds are you'll roll that 3 times on average. Sometimes more, sometimes less. So ultimately no, rolling that wasn't unlikely or unlucky.
    Pedants corner! Offered not as criticism but just for information.
    Your average number of double 6s in 100 rolls should be about 2.78.
    And I THINK the mode number of double 6s is actually likelier to be 2. Which is a little surprising since the average is a lot closer to 3, but we're back to that long-tail effect of averages which has come up before.
    Yes, just checked it
    0 = 5.977979%
    1 = 17.07994%
    2 = 24.15591%
    3 = 22.54552%
    4 = 15.62082%
    5 = 8.569138%
    6 = 3.876515%
    7 = 1.487316%
    8 = 0.4940013%
    9 = 0.1442798%
    From your numbers

    3+ = 52.786171%

    Though since the number of times an event can happen in a game is an integer, 2.78 rounded is 3 anyway.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    edited October 2021
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
    It's interesting because without us it would be nothing.
    Yes and it’s sui generis. We’ve never encountered corporations with this kind of mega-power before. Even at their height, the great oil companies were trivial compared to the likes of Facebook today
    This is not a geography/history I'm too familiar with, but how about the East India Company?
    Standard Oil? I'm pretty damn sure you don't need facebook to transport goods or heat your home.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,997
    Leon said:

    Put it another way, if Boris is at some big shindig like the G20 does he carve out half an hour to talk alone with the prime minister of Uruguay, Slovenia or the Honduras? No

    Does he carve out half an hour to be one on one with Zuckerberg? Yes

    He knows which one can win him an election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,307

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    There was even a calendar too.

    http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/

    I have a copy of the book
    I remember seeing the calendar when it came out. There are some really good roundabouts these days. Artistic and aesthetic.
    PB is getting positively Proustian these days. I looked in that website and the first thing I saw was that roundabout at Swindon - I've only ever seen it once and that was walking to the bus station from a night spent camping on the Ridgeway. Had completely forgotten it for more than four decades.
    I went through it once, but it was around 1230am so no traffic.
    It’s a great concept if you know how to use it. Any number of routes across it. Really confuses people on first encounter and as it’s by the footy ground* often away fan’s first experience of Swindon is absolute carnage on the roundabout...

    *aka the hallowed turf
    I had no problem with it on the way into Swindon. On the way out I think I was a bit complacent, and ended up somewhere I did not want to be. Twice.
    Since you were already headed into Swindon ending up somewhere you did not want to be seems inevitable.

    Easy jokes for the win.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,788
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
    It's interesting because without us it would be nothing.
    I wonder whether one day people might just get fed up with using these social media companies.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,419
    edited October 2021
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21

    Whiff of Cakeism here. Is this squeeze (thus whatever financial upside ensues for the low paid) a consequence of Brexit or not? It's not really respectable to say the positive aspect (higher wages) is due to Brexit but the negative aspect (chaos, shortages, higher prices) is not.
    Changing the way the country runs just as a pandemic hits is not ideal obviously. Maybe had we known a pandemic were to strike, Brexit wouldn’t have happened.

    But, as it is, what is happening regarding labour shortages/businesses complaining etc is what I thought should happen all along, so I’m not complaining. You’ve got to break an egg to make an omelette, business owners are grieving the loss of all their betting accounts because they turned out to be arbers, and aren’t happy. It was good for them while it lasted though, some people never get to be rich
    Ok, you think because European FOM has ended for us, the living standards of our low paid are going to get a serious boost and this is why you wanted Brexit. I do believe that (unlike some others) you're telling the truth about this, ie that yes this WAS why you wanted Brexit. I also believe you'll be disappointed because it won't happen. You just see if I'm right.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    IIRC, GDP measures gross value added across a country, excluding inflows and outflows from dividends, rent, financing, etc.

    Therefore I would suggest that the gross value add of a company - i.e. the sum of the output of its workers - is EBIT.

    GNP - which includes financing flows - would be a better compare for net profit.
    Gross value add includes the return to capital and the return to workers, so really you should be adding salaries onto EBIT. Of course, what we are actually considering here isn't the productive capacity, but financial power. On that logic, I would argue we should be comparing revenue to government income receipts. Or maybe expenditure matters more than income (as that is where your influence is felt), so total corporate cost vs government expenditure.
  • The primary thing I use Facebook for now is logging onto games and websites so I don't have to mess around with passwords.

    I'm not really sure how secure that is though, using the same login for multiple sites means if your FB is compromised then everything is compromised simultaneously - but if you change your FB password then everything is changed simultaneously.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,718
    Heathener said:

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    Justin Trudeau has expanded the acronym to "2SLGBTQQIA+"

    https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1445200620340842496

    I thought you were joking. But no. Apparently it means

    "Two Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual Plus people"


    File me under "Questioning"
    Why do Asexual people need to be grouped under here? Surely they don't care enough as their approach is "meh".
    They seem to not like being misunderstood. I'd expect there to be another two As in time, as the ARomantic and AGender people are added. I'm surprised Pansexual isn't already there.
    Can we leave the bile and misunderstandings to Guido Fawkes' website please?
    I don't accept that there was any bile or misunderstanding in my post.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Stocky said:

    GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.

    Its total value added with adjustments for direct taxes. You are correct that that is the total economic output of the country, but revenue is not the total economic output of a company, because some of it is just covering the cost of inputs. Gross output is the measure equivalent to revenue for countries.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,684
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "IDEAS
    The Largest Autocracy on Earth
    Facebook is acting like a hostile foreign power; it’s time we treated it that way.

    By Adrienne LaFrance"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/facebook-authoritarian-hostile-foreign-power/620168/

    Not just Facebook but big tech generally now dominates the global economy.

    The largest company by market capitalisation now globally is Apple and 5 of the top 10 biggest companies are all in tech ie Apple, Microsoft, Alphabet (which is the parent company of Google, the Android operating system and Youtube), Facebook (which also owns Instagram) and Tencent.

    That is excluding the online retailer and deliverer Amazon which is 4th
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-biggest-companies-in-the-world-in-2021/
    The market cap value of Apple is $2.4 trillion....


    Which makes it bigger than the GDP of Italy, and twice as big as Mexico, and about five times the size of Nigeria


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    But market cap to GDP is a total wealth to income comparison. Still, your point in valid - Apple's revenues are probably greater than a good number of countries' GDP.
    At $274.3 billion revenues, Apple is in the Czech, Romania, Pakistan, New Zealand, Portugal, Greece and Peru range of GDP, and would be ranked the 49th largest economy.
    No, as somebody else points out, GDP is a measure of value added, not of aggregate sales. So you're simply not comparing like with like.

    You'd have to believe that Apple's 147,000 employees produce about the same as the 3 million in the New Zealand workforce. A better comparison is with the $57 billion in global profit, which puts it somewhere between Slovenia and Uruguay if we use nominal GDP, or Honduras and Estonia if we use PPP.
    That's net profit, i.e. after tax - one should probably use the pretax (or even EBIT) number as that is the total value add of the company.

    Which is about $75bn...
    No, I used net profit intentionally, because that's what the shareholders can spend.

    Economists generally consider the government an external party to the company, but internal to the country.
    EBITDA is how shareholders know how well their company is doing, that said.
    I was being playful in that comparison between Apple’s market cap and entire countries like Italy

    However some other comparisons minimise the power of these tech giants

    I mean, Honduras, Estonia, really??

    Apple or Google or Facebook are far more powerful than any of these countries. Especially in the way they control global media

    I’d say a company like Facebook is more like Spain or maybe South Africa in the power it can exert in the world. ie not in the top ten nations but a lot more significant than “Uruguay”
    Seeing as Facebook is the internet in many developing countries. And its actions significantly distort their elections. I would put its influence up with the superpowers. And depending on how much influence American agencies have on the company maybe even higher

    I'm sure the CIA would have done nasty things to have such mass influence during the cold war. I mean they practically had a man in every big newsroom according to Nick Davies in his book flat earth news. But the Facebook algorithms control the news stories you consume and the flow of user generated information around the network. A network that is nearly half of the worlds population.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,773
    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Seriously bad karma.

    tayatha om bekandze bekandze maha bekandze radza samudgate soha.
  • nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Its when people can't get Pigs in Blankets that the complaining will start.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,728
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21

    Whiff of Cakeism here. Is this squeeze (thus whatever financial upside ensues for the low paid) a consequence of Brexit or not? It's not really respectable to say the positive aspect (higher wages) is due to Brexit but the negative aspect (chaos, shortages, higher prices) is not.
    Changing the way the country runs just as a pandemic hits is not ideal obviously. Maybe had we known a pandemic were to strike, Brexit wouldn’t have happened.

    But, as it is, what is happening regarding labour shortages/businesses complaining etc is what I thought should happen all along, so I’m not complaining. You’ve got to break an egg to make an omelette, business owners are grieving the loss of all their betting accounts because they turned out to be arbers, and aren’t happy. It was good for them while it lasted though, some people never get to be rich
    Ok, you think because European FOM has ended for us, the living standards of our low paid are going to get a serious boost and this is why you wanted Brexit. I do believe that (unlike some others) you're telling the truth about this, ie that yes this WAS why you wanted Brexit. I also believe you'll be disappointed because it won't happen. You just see if I'm right.
    It will continue during the term of this Government. If it doesn't happen, it will be because Labour or a coalition government end it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Times Radio

    "Having certain sectors entirely relying on cheap labour from around the world is not a long term solution."

    Brandon Lewis says the labour shortages existed before Brexit and there will be a pressure on supply for a while.

    @JPonpolitics | @BrandonLewis

    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1445436471926792203?s=21

    Whiff of Cakeism here. Is this squeeze (thus whatever financial upside ensues for the low paid) a consequence of Brexit or not? It's not really respectable to say the positive aspect (higher wages) is due to Brexit but the negative aspect (chaos, shortages, higher prices) is not.
    Changing the way the country runs just as a pandemic hits is not ideal obviously. Maybe had we known a pandemic were to strike, Brexit wouldn’t have happened.

    But, as it is, what is happening regarding labour shortages/businesses complaining etc is what I thought should happen all along, so I’m not complaining. You’ve got to break an egg to make an omelette, business owners are grieving the loss of all their betting accounts because they turned out to be arbers, and aren’t happy. It was good for them while it lasted though, some people never get to be rich
    Ok, you think because European FOM has ended for us, the living standards of our low paid are going to get a serious boost and this is why you wanted Brexit. I do believe that (unlike some others) you're telling the truth about this, ie that yes this WAS why you wanted Brexit. I also believe you'll be disappointed because it won't happen. You just see if I'm right.
    I hope it does happen. Poor people can’t complain they haven’t got opportunities now, and fewer people will be able to sign on the dole saying there’s no jobs they can do.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,752
    Stocky said:

    GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.

    lol

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
    The culled pigs won't go into the food chain. They'll be incinerated or rendered. A criminal waste of good food.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,423
    edited October 2021
    Chronologically:

    1. PB government supporters have been telling us for weeks that supply chain problems, fuel distribution problems, pig culling, and various other things are nothing to do with Brexit, as others in Europe/around the world are facing similar issues; problems are a consequence of Covid, not Brexit. Fair point, I think....

    2. As I follow this week's Tory Conference, Boris, Sunak and others tell us that short-term problems are everything to do with Brexit: they are a necessary, short-term hiccup as we restructure the economy in advance of benefiting from the sunlit uplands of Brexit. It's a deliberate and inevitable staging post following Brexit and the end of FOM.

    3. PB government supporters tell us that short-term supply chain problems, higher living costs etc. are everything to do with Brexit and are a good thing, as we restructure the economy to benefit from the sunlit uplands of Brexit through a high-wage, more productive economy. It's the pain before the gain.

    No wonder I'm confused.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,419
    Stocky said:

    GDP is a measure of total economic output (i.e. overall domestic production). Not value added.

    Can you calculate "value added" for a country?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
    Not what is happening. Pigs being culled and binned because abbatoir staff unavailable.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
    Oh dear another from the Bozo way of thinking !
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IshmaelZ said:

    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
    Not what is happening. Pigs being culled and binned because abbatoir staff unavailable.
    I doubt the pigs consider either of the two options they’re faced with a win
  • Farooq said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    O/T: some hope for Conservatives in that Johnson only scores just above Priti Patel, but the real shocker is the two most swivelly of swivelly-eyed nutjobs, Frost and Rees-Mogg right up at the top. The modern Conservative Party clearly still has more extremists in it than Labour under Corbyn if so many want to endorse these two!

    Neither Frost or JRM are as bad as Jezza.

    But.

    The people at the top of the list are the ones who make the Conservatives feel good about themselves, who tell the activists what they want to hear. In that sense, they are the mirror image of Corbyn.

    In some ways, fair enough. But at some point, all parties need someone to remind them that not everyone thinks like them, or they can't have what they want. To give him his due, BoJo does that with greenery.

    But who in the professional wing of the Conservative Party is left who is prepared to stand up to the activists?
    Look, the Tories have been in power for 11 years now.

    After 10 years in power all parties get a bit bored and less fresh and full of ideas. The activists too start to want a leader who is ideologically purer rather than to just stay in power for the sake of it.

    Labour however has been out of power for over a decade, so it is they whose leadership needs to stand up to activists more than the Tories
    Labour are out of power precisely because of your comments

    However, the conservative party's desire for power is much more pragmatic
    Was it so pragmatic when it picked Hague over Clarke after the 1997 defeat following 18 years in power and then followed that by picking IDS over Clarke and Portillo?

    Hague wasn't such an unreasonable choice if you ask me, I think he just got the job too young and was unfairly discriminated against by the electorate on the basis of his northern accent. But picking IDS was lunacy.
    You can also add picking Home over Butler in 1963.

    On the Labour side similarly picking Foot over Healey in 1980, Ed Miliband over David Miliband in 2010 and Corbyn over Burnham in 2015
    I think Miliband vs Miliband is a less extreme example, and I'm not only saying that because I voted for Ed!
    Had David won Cameron would likely not have got a majority in 2015, the Tory-LD coalition would probably have continued, there would have been no EU referendum in 2016 and no Brexit.

    New PM Osborne would be settling down to No 10 having narrowly beaten Corbyn in 2020 despite UKIP getting 20% of the vote (or else David Miliband could have stayed Labour leader having only narrowly lost and beaten Osborne and now be in No 10).

    Boris meanwhile would be finishing his biography of Shakespeare not running the country.

    Ed beating David had huge consequences
    Doesn't everything have huge consequences though? I think so. Apologies for a quick diversion but I got to pondering this the other week when I had a hole in one at golf. It happened at 11.37 am on Wednesday 22nd Sept. The 12th hole, 162 yards, 7 iron, sweet spot, high with a touch of fade, landed on, rolled and ... IN.

    My first and I'm sure last. I'm only an average player, about an 18, don't play that much, so you don't expect it to ever happen, it's massively unlikely. Such a buzz it was. Made me feel special, picked out by fate, as if I'd won the lottery or something. But as I continued to think about it, my thoughts took a bleaker turn. Rather than winning lotteries I started to think about other unlikely "special" things, such as plane crashes and bizarre diseases. If I could have a hole in one, if I was the sort who father fate was taking an interest in, could I also be in line for one of these?

    Had to stop that train of thought and the way I did so was by considering it from another angle. My shot went into the hole only because everything at the time and prior to it was just so. A fraction of a millimetre different on the clubface, a smidgen more or less force, a different golfball, the tiniest scintilla of a change in the wind or atmospheric pressure, not wearing a glove, wearing a different sweater or trousers, wearing y fronts instead of boxers, a traffic jam on the drive to the club, an apple instead of a banana for breakfast, then the night before etc, keep going back and back and further back, all the way to the womb and even before that - point being, any change at all would have meant no hole in one. My life led inexorably to the moment and the moment was created by my life. More than this, it was created by the whole of history since I live not in isolation but in deep nexus with all else.

    So, that cheered me up no end.
    I have often thought that about the euromillions. Great yes you won but now you are in the zone of 75m-1 risks happening to you. Eaten in your bath by a shark; meteorite wiping out your house, you contract an illness that has an, um, one in 75m chance of being contracted, etc...

    What btw are the odds of a hole in one?
    I hate to break it to you but by merely being alive and in the UK you're pretty darned close to the zone of 75m-1 already and you are every day of your life. Indeed as others have said, they'll happen all the time.

    I used to play a board game called Blood Bowl a lot and especially online people would blame 'bad beats' on 'bad luck' or a 'bad RNG' for rolling double skulls (snake-eyes or double 1) at an inopportune moment. Rolling that is unlikely (1/36) but if in the course of a typical game you roll around 100 pairs of dice, then the odds are you'll roll that 3 times on average. Sometimes more, sometimes less. So ultimately no, rolling that wasn't unlikely or unlucky.
    Pedants corner! Offered not as criticism but just for information.
    Your average number of double 6s in 100 rolls should be about 2.78.
    And I THINK the mode number of double 6s is actually likelier to be 2. Which is a little surprising since the average is a lot closer to 3, but we're back to that long-tail effect of averages which has come up before.
    Yes, just checked it
    0 = 5.977979%
    1 = 17.07994%
    2 = 24.15591%
    3 = 22.54552%
    4 = 15.62082%
    5 = 8.569138%
    6 = 3.876515%
    7 = 1.487316%
    8 = 0.4940013%
    9 = 0.1442798%
    What I want to know is how many double sixes make it a million-to-one shot?
    17+ double 6s in 100 rolls is less than 1/1000000
    4 consecutive double 6s is 1 / 1,679,616

    3 consecutive double 6s is 1 / 46,656
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    IshmaelZ said:

    nico679 said:

    So the pig cull has started . Grown men left in tears at having to destroy their livestock and somehow what’s happening in the UK is being normalized by this cesspit of a government !

    Plenty of bacon then... think positive...
    Not what is happening. Pigs being culled and binned because abbatoir staff unavailable.
    Think it is as much to do with the post-slaughter butchery. Anybody can kill a pig. It is a great skill to turn the corpse into chops and bacon.
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