French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Cancel a major Free Trade deal just to salve wounded French pride? Why?!
Expect Germany to squash this.
The French are over-reacting and over-reaching
Spot on. The French would be ill advised to push it too far. Sometimes you have to admit you got beat, and move on.
Macron might now get some movement on an autonomous European military. Even if he could just get Spain, Italy and maybe Germany to commit, he would have the nucleus of a major military alliance.
But asking other European states to economically harm Australia, and their own trading interests, just because France has been humiliated? WTF? Also, quite a few EU states have seriously warm relations with Australia, like Ireland, Italy and Greece, who sent so many migrants Down Under. They will surely tell France to eff off
Ordinarily I'd agree, but Boris has made such a power grab that the EU might feel it necessary to fire a shot across his bows. I'm sure every country in Europe is now feeling a bit queasy about what an unfettered Boris would mean in the long run.
I'd be genuinely amazed if the EU agrees to scupper a massive, complex FTA just because one EU member, however notable, is having a mental breakdown
In fact I don't believe it will even get that far. What would France gain from this even if they could impose their will? Some small revenge on Australia, just for the sake of it, which makes France look petulant and villainous and makes everyone a bit poorer
Surely calmer heads will prevail and Berlin and the EUCO will have a quiet word with M Macron
It may not take the form of Frexit, but I think France is heading for an even more painful national debate about its role in the world than the one we had from 2016-2019.
Eric Zemmour's campaign has so far been the biggest wildcard in the presidential election and his support is growing. His assessment of the Brexit negotiations was that it was a total victory for the UK on the substantive issues, and France's current humiliation over Aukus can only strengthen his narrative.
He's right, on the substantive issues the UK won. The EU won on border pedantry which imposes short term costs on the UK. The UK won on governance and on low cost/cost free divergence which is a huge long term gain as the UK can continue to slowly dilute the EU trade deal and selectively remove EU standards where it suits us.
The reality of this is only now dawning on the EU and France in particular. The freedom to act in our own interests without having any pressure to maintain a single foreign policy with 27 other nations, some of them more difficult to herd than cats, has given the UK a new role in the world. France had assumed America and other nations would now treat with it as the major military power in the EU but all that's happened is the EU has lost global relevance without us.
All it needed to keep the UK in the tent was some minor action on immigration and benefits. It would have been a zero cost solution for the EU and it would have kept the most globally connected and relevant member in the tent pissing out. Now we're out of the tent and absolutely pissing into it, not just pissing in but getting our allies to piss into it as well.
What's the French for 'shackled to a corpse'?
Lol, one does wonder how mainstream Barnier's ideas will become over the next few years. If they gain traction he's opened the door to France either forcing a complete rewriting of the EU treaties or Frexit. Why shouldn't the French courts have legal supremacy in France? The UK has just achieved that and for what looks like a very low cost. The moment the EU gave up on continued ECJ jurisdiction over the TCA was the minute Brexit went from something worthless to something that others would eventually wonder why they don't have. It's happened faster than I anticipated wrt Barnier's campaign positions.
The more France responds to Aukus by attempting to chart its own nimble course, the more it will run into objections from other EU members, and the more it will feel that EU membership is a burden rather than a force multiplier.
I can't be the only person distraught that Farron isn't the LibDem leader right now.
We all remember how he got himself into knots over homosexuality, I would love to see him get into similar... issues... over trans rights.
IIRC the knot Farron got into scuppered the entire liberal edifice. The big point about liberalism is that it allows a huge public space for difference of opinion while maximally allowing people to act feely and minimising the number of things that are either compulsory or forbidden by law.
Farron, while not wanting to criminalise gay sexual activity, personally had a difficulty with it on the same religious grounds that millions, probably billions, of people do (though not me). Curiously liberals found this difficult. Liberals really seem to struggle with liberalism.
Thing is, you can deduce from the NT that God hates queers, but it's not easy. Gotta know what you are looking for
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
Invitations for Covid-19 booster jabs will be sent to 1.5million people in England tomorrow as the Government prepares to top-up immunity in frontline workers and vulnerable Britons.
Text messages urging people to arrange a third jab through the National Booking Service will be sent on Monday while letters will be sent to those who are eligible later in the week.
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
I think it's unlikely to happen. However, Boris's admirers have been keen to assert that AUUKUS proves Europe now has no global influence whatsoever and it is Boris to whom the world looks for leadership. So the EU might decide to stuff AUS just to make the counter-argument. We now live in strange and unpredictable times.
Interesting - try and hobble a strong competitor in the wine market?
UK wine imports from Oz are up a third Q1 2021 over Q1 2020.
So, depending on value added etc, there might be more via here as it is imported here in bulk mainly. Maybe.
If I remember correctly, Australian wine exports to the UK are large in quantity and small in price. This is why the Chinese inport tarriffs hurt them so much. They bought the fancy stuff.
Speaking of which, has anyone had Penfolds Grange? I have not had the pleasure…
It's like Opus One - far too big. There's this tendency among New World winemakers to think that amping up the alcohol content is all that's required to make a great wine.
The very best New World wines are the ones that remember that you don't have to do that. Stand up Ridge Monte Bello.
My solution is individual toilet cubicles everywhere (floor to ceiling). Safe space if you want it with others, or private space for yourself. Toilet/changing room problem solved.
Impose a new cost on businesses because men in dresses are upset. Great.
Thanks for your unhelpful, immature, and inflammatory input on the debate. You’re just as bad as Twitter trans-activists.
That's what this is. Men, mostly white, have decided they want access to female only spaces and are trampling over women's rights to get there. As we know white men don't understand the concept of not getting their way in life so here we are with this ridiculous situation of suggesting lesbians are bigots for not wanting suck cocks or thinking that blokes who put on a dress and tell everyone else they're actually women can waltz into female only spaces.
Sex and gender are different. This is the kind of bullshit that makes the British left unfit for government.
I stand by my original comment. You can argue “sex and gender are different” without resorting to anti-trans slurs
Nope, I'm fed up of it. I'm fed up of women being harassed by the men in dresses because they want to preserve female only spaces. I'm fed up of the death threats to women who speak out, disgusted that an elected representative was unable to attend their own party conference because they feared physical violence from the men in dresses.
There's no middle way here. Women's rights must be preserved at any cost. They are hard won and the men in dresses need to deal with it by taking off the dress or committing to the sex change process. Self ID gender recognition is wrong and it's another expression of white male privilege trampling over hard won women's rights, reversing decades of progress.
I feel like you should meet some trans people and not form your entire position from Twitter
And yet we have a female MP who was threatened with violence if she attended the Labour conference. That is the movement. No one is disowning it either, in fact they're all over the place saying she deserved it and it's a good example of how they are succeeding in silencing dissent.
Errm, I've disowned it; I've said both sides are as bad as each other; feeding off hatred. And in the middle are trans people who just want to get on with their lives. It's odd that it's the left that seems so striven by this.
I don't know if you've read them - and I don't know if you care - but I've mentioned anecdotes in the past about friends of mine who wanted to, and have, transitioned.
Calling them 'men in dresses' is just brainless rubbish. Especially as one was a female-to-male...
One of the great British computing pioneers was female-to-male trans - the great Sophie (nee Roger) Wilson.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
My solution is individual toilet cubicles everywhere (floor to ceiling). Safe space if you want it with others, or private space for yourself. Toilet/changing room problem solved.
Impose a new cost on businesses because men in dresses are upset. Great.
Thanks for your unhelpful, immature, and inflammatory input on the debate. You’re just as bad as Twitter trans-activists.
That's what this is. Men, mostly white, have decided they want access to female only spaces and are trampling over women's rights to get there. As we know white men don't understand the concept of not getting their way in life so here we are with this ridiculous situation of suggesting lesbians are bigots for not wanting suck cocks or thinking that blokes who put on a dress and tell everyone else they're actually women can waltz into female only spaces.
Sex and gender are different. This is the kind of bullshit that makes the British left unfit for government.
I stand by my original comment. You can argue “sex and gender are different” without resorting to anti-trans slurs
Nope, I'm fed up of it. I'm fed up of women being harassed by the men in dresses because they want to preserve female only spaces. I'm fed up of the death threats to women who speak out, disgusted that an elected representative was unable to attend their own party conference because they feared physical violence from the men in dresses.
There's no middle way here. Women's rights must be preserved at any cost. They are hard won and the men in dresses need to deal with it by taking off the dress or committing to the sex change process. Self ID gender recognition is wrong and it's another expression of white male privilege trampling over hard won women's rights, reversing decades of progress.
I feel like you should meet some trans people and not form your entire position from Twitter
And yet we have a female MP who was threatened with violence if she attended the Labour conference. That is the movement. No one is disowning it either, in fact they're all over the place saying she deserved it and it's a good example of how they are succeeding in silencing dissent.
Errm, I've disowned it; I've said both sides are as bad as each other; feeding off hatred. And in the middle are trans people who just want to get on with their lives. It's odd that it's the left that seems so striven by this.
I don't know if you've read them - and I don't know if you care - but I've mentioned anecdotes in the past about friends of mine who wanted to, and have, transitioned.
Calling them 'men in dresses' is just brainless rubbish. Especially as one was a female-to-male...
One of the great British computing pioneers was female-to-male trans - the great Sophie (nee Roger) Wilson.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Cancel a major Free Trade deal just to salve wounded French pride? Why?!
Expect Germany to squash this.
The French are over-reacting and over-reaching
Spot on. The French would be ill advised to push it too far. Sometimes you have to admit you got beat, and move on.
Macron might now get some movement on an autonomous European military. Even if he could just get Spain, Italy and maybe Germany to commit, he would have the nucleus of a major military alliance.
But asking other European states to economically harm Australia, and their own trading interests, just because France has been humiliated? WTF? Also, quite a few EU states have seriously warm relations with Australia, like Ireland, Italy and Greece, who sent so many migrants Down Under. They will surely tell France to eff off
Ordinarily I'd agree, but Boris has made such a power grab that the EU might feel it necessary to fire a shot across his bows. I'm sure every country in Europe is now feeling a bit queasy about what an unfettered Boris would mean in the long run.
I'd be genuinely amazed if the EU agrees to scupper a massive, complex FTA just because one EU member, however notable, is having a mental breakdown
In fact I don't believe it will even get that far. What would France gain from this even if they could impose their will? Some small revenge on Australia, just for the sake of it, which makes France look petulant and villainous and makes everyone a bit poorer
Surely calmer heads will prevail and Berlin and the EUCO will have a quiet word with M Macron
It may not take the form of Frexit, but I think France is heading for an even more painful national debate about its role in the world than the one we had from 2016-2019.
Eric Zemmour's campaign has so far been the biggest wildcard in the presidential election and his support is growing. His assessment of the Brexit negotiations was that it was a total victory for the UK on the substantive issues, and France's current humiliation over Aukus can only strengthen his narrative.
He's right, on the substantive issues the UK won. The EU won on border pedantry which imposes short term costs on the UK. The UK won on governance and on low cost/cost free divergence which is a huge long term gain as the UK can continue to slowly dilute the EU trade deal and selectively remove EU standards where it suits us.
The reality of this is only now dawning on the EU and France in particular. The freedom to act in our own interests without having any pressure to maintain a single foreign policy with 27 other nations, some of them more difficult to herd than cats, has given the UK a new role in the world. France had assumed America and other nations would now treat with it as the major military power in the EU but all that's happened is the EU has lost global relevance without us.
All it needed to keep the UK in the tent was some minor action on immigration and benefits. It would have been a zero cost solution for the EU and it would have kept the most globally connected and relevant member in the tent pissing out. Now we're out of the tent and absolutely pissing into it, not just pissing in but getting our allies to piss into it as well.
What's the French for 'shackled to a corpse'?
Lol, one does wonder how mainstream Barnier's ideas will become over the next few years. If they gain traction he's opened the door to France either forcing a complete rewriting of the EU treaties or Frexit. Why shouldn't the French courts have legal supremacy in France? The UK has just achieved that and for what looks like a very low cost. The moment the EU gave up on continued ECJ jurisdiction over the TCA was the minute Brexit went from something worthless to something that others would eventually wonder why they don't have. It's happened faster than I anticipated wrt Barnier's campaign positions.
The more France responds to Aukus by attempting to chart its own nimble course, the more it will run into objections from other EU members, and the more it will feel that EU membership is a burden rather than a force multiplier.
If one was going to argue down that route they might point out that arguably the biggest stumbling block for Brexit negotiations was the intractable NIrish question - which is uniquely a U.K. problem. Countries like France would just have to work out a way around the Euro issue...
I can't be the only person distraught that Farron isn't the LibDem leader right now.
We all remember how he got himself into knots over homosexuality, I would love to see him get into similar... issues... over trans rights.
IIRC the knot Farron got into scuppered the entire liberal edifice. The big point about liberalism is that it allows a huge public space for difference of opinion while maximally allowing people to act feely and minimising the number of things that are either compulsory or forbidden by law.
Farron, while not wanting to criminalise gay sexual activity, personally had a difficulty with it on the same religious grounds that millions, probably billions, of people do (though not me). Curiously liberals found this difficult. Liberals really seem to struggle with liberalism.
Thing is, you can deduce from the NT that God hates queers, but it's not easy. Gotta know what you are looking for
Matthew 25:34-46 is pretty specific about what behaviour gets you sent to heaven, and what to... the other place.
Edit to add. The people who get to go to heaven are:
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.
Basically, be good to people less fortunate than yourself.
Note to budding sock puppets: you have to bide your time here. Build up a reputation. Develop a credible back story. Charging straight in at post number 1 with a long and highly critical rant won't convince anyone, it'll just make people wonder which territory your IP address might be traced to. Particularly if you pick a handle which is remarkably similar to previous short-lived sock puppets.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
I like to think he would veer violently between the two, depending on his wine intake, testosterone levels, the time of day, recent sexual success (or lack of) and the prevailing weather, with occasional diversions where he suddenly cares passionately about the fate of lemurs in a zoo in southern Madagascar, before returning to his justified contempt for the French version of kinabalu
My solution is individual toilet cubicles everywhere (floor to ceiling). Safe space if you want it with others, or private space for yourself. Toilet/changing room problem solved.
Impose a new cost on businesses because men in dresses are upset. Great.
Thanks for your unhelpful, immature, and inflammatory input on the debate. You’re just as bad as Twitter trans-activists.
That's what this is. Men, mostly white, have decided they want access to female only spaces and are trampling over women's rights to get there. As we know white men don't understand the concept of not getting their way in life so here we are with this ridiculous situation of suggesting lesbians are bigots for not wanting suck cocks or thinking that blokes who put on a dress and tell everyone else they're actually women can waltz into female only spaces.
Sex and gender are different. This is the kind of bullshit that makes the British left unfit for government.
I stand by my original comment. You can argue “sex and gender are different” without resorting to anti-trans slurs
Nope, I'm fed up of it. I'm fed up of women being harassed by the men in dresses because they want to preserve female only spaces. I'm fed up of the death threats to women who speak out, disgusted that an elected representative was unable to attend their own party conference because they feared physical violence from the men in dresses.
There's no middle way here. Women's rights must be preserved at any cost. They are hard won and the men in dresses need to deal with it by taking off the dress or committing to the sex change process. Self ID gender recognition is wrong and it's another expression of white male privilege trampling over hard won women's rights, reversing decades of progress.
I feel like you should meet some trans people and not form your entire position from Twitter
And yet we have a female MP who was threatened with violence if she attended the Labour conference. That is the movement. No one is disowning it either, in fact they're all over the place saying she deserved it and it's a good example of how they are succeeding in silencing dissent.
Errm, I've disowned it; I've said both sides are as bad as each other; feeding off hatred. And in the middle are trans people who just want to get on with their lives. It's odd that it's the left that seems so striven by this.
I don't know if you've read them - and I don't know if you care - but I've mentioned anecdotes in the past about friends of mine who wanted to, and have, transitioned.
Calling them 'men in dresses' is just brainless rubbish. Especially as one was a female-to-male...
One of the great British computing pioneers was female-to-male trans - the great Sophie (nee Roger) Wilson.
I can't be the only person distraught that Farron isn't the LibDem leader right now.
We all remember how he got himself into knots over homosexuality, I would love to see him get into similar... issues... over trans rights.
IIRC the knot Farron got into scuppered the entire liberal edifice. The big point about liberalism is that it allows a huge public space for difference of opinion while maximally allowing people to act feely and minimising the number of things that are either compulsory or forbidden by law.
Farron, while not wanting to criminalise gay sexual activity, personally had a difficulty with it on the same religious grounds that millions, probably billions, of people do (though not me). Curiously liberals found this difficult. Liberals really seem to struggle with liberalism.
Thing is, you can deduce from the NT that God hates queers, but it's not easy. Gotta know what you are looking for
That's exactly how John Stuart Mill puts it in 'On Liberty'. You have taken the words out of his mouth.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
Julia Hartley-Brewer @JuliaHB1 · 4h This is genuinely extraordinary. The Orwellian double-think needed to make such statements is terrifying.
A woman is an adult human female. That's a fact. Trans women are biological men who choose to live as women, as they should be free to do. But they're not women. #IAmAWoman
===
She's talking about Ed Davey's statement that a trans woman is a woman.
Isn't this debate easily solved by the fact that sex and gender are different things, which usually align but not 100%. Sex describes someone's genitalia and gender describes someone's brain chemistry and identity.
Yes - I've been saying similar for months. Gender is what you identify as and sex is what sex you are. It must be possible for sex and gender to differ or what would be the point of having two words for the same thing. Hartley-Brewer is spot on.
It's facile though imo.
- "You are a man who identifies as a woman." - "No, I'm a woman who was born a boy."
I don't see that this get us very far.
The issue, at heart and in practice, is about what you are legally, a man or a woman, the process/controls around changing from one to the other, and to what extent (if any) female only spaces and activities should be able to exclude transwomen.
Let me simplify
“Women only spaces should not be open to trans women with penises”
How about those who are transitioning, and have to live as a woman for two years before the op?
They should live as their gender but not be allowed into female-only spaces until after they've transitioned.
If the rules need fixing to satisfy the panel with that easier, then that should be done rather than having safeguarding issues for women.
So, dressed as a woman, they're meant to go into male bogs and potentially get beaten up?
How about safeguarding issues for them?
Edit: and practically, who checks? If a trans was to dress as a woman, go into a female toilet cubicle, and cause no hassle, what harm have they done? Are we going to have police checking their certificate of womanhood at the door?
For them if they don't want to use male toilets until they've transitioned to being women then using disabled or other neutral toilets in the interim seems logical.
But that doesn't seem a reason to abolish female-only spaces.
Who is abolishing female only spaces?
Even in the extremely unlikely event of a penis-wielding pervert saying "I am trans" to threaten women in changing rooms, they would get chucked out. Standards of behaviour exist whether the woman is cis or trans that can be policed.
The threat is the trans man or woman using their birth gender facilities and getting assaulted. That isn't extremely unlikely.
Anyone saying pre-transition men with penises can go into women's-only spaces is abolishing female only spaces.
The threat of women getting raped and assaulted is every bit as real as the threat of pre-transition males being beaten up by using their own gender facilities until they transition.
So lets go after the threat to women - rapey men. That small minority of men who define their manhood by owning demeaning and threatening women. If they are out to assault and rape a woman they aren't going to be worried by the sign on the door and their permission to be there.
You do understand the whole concept of whataboutery? Not to mention that what you are saying is - this is an exceedingly rare crime, and its victims exclusively women, so let's ignore it and move on?
No. It is an exceedingly rare crime, and there is no reason to stigmatise a whole group because of the rare actions - and worse, the perceived threat - posed by the group as a whole.
History has taught us that enough times.
And stigmatisation is exactly what we're seeing on here tonight.
No it fucking isn't. I STARTED this conversation by saying let's just legislate for the edge cases and move on. I googled a case I had seen one reference to, to prove that the edge cases exist, found it and linked to it, and you came back and said I was obsessing about it. I can't think of a more smug, thoughtless or irritating lie you could have told. You are a thoroughly nasty little man.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
It's also losing the strategic alliance with Australia. Without it, maintaining their position in the Pacific over the medium term will be much harder.
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
I think it's unlikely to happen. However, Boris's admirers have been keen to assert that AUUKUS proves Europe now has no global influence whatsoever and it is Boris to whom the world looks for leadership. So the EU might decide to stuff AUS just to make the counter-argument. We now live in strange and unpredictable times.
Interesting - try and hobble a strong competitor in the wine market?
UK wine imports from Oz are up a third Q1 2021 over Q1 2020.
So, depending on value added etc, there might be more via here as it is imported here in bulk mainly. Maybe.
If I remember correctly, Australian wine exports to the UK are large in quantity and small in price. This is why the Chinese inport tarriffs hurt them so much. They bought the fancy stuff.
Speaking of which, has anyone had Penfolds Grange? I have not had the pleasure…
I have, it is truly excellent, if not quite the world class top ten wine they want to think
I’m as far from a wine connoisseur as it’s possible to be but fwiw I am always drawn towards South America (for the reds)
A very sensible course to pursue!
The finest Argentinian Malbecs are now, probably, the best value top quality reds in the world. Truly superb wines, for around £20-£30. In Argie you can buy then for a tenner or less. Nuts
And they are now (along with the Chileans) expanding into Shiraz, and blends, and what have you
My solution is individual toilet cubicles everywhere (floor to ceiling). Safe space if you want it with others, or private space for yourself. Toilet/changing room problem solved.
Impose a new cost on businesses because men in dresses are upset. Great.
Thanks for your unhelpful, immature, and inflammatory input on the debate. You’re just as bad as Twitter trans-activists.
That's what this is. Men, mostly white, have decided they want access to female only spaces and are trampling over women's rights to get there. As we know white men don't understand the concept of not getting their way in life so here we are with this ridiculous situation of suggesting lesbians are bigots for not wanting suck cocks or thinking that blokes who put on a dress and tell everyone else they're actually women can waltz into female only spaces.
Sex and gender are different. This is the kind of bullshit that makes the British left unfit for government.
I stand by my original comment. You can argue “sex and gender are different” without resorting to anti-trans slurs
Nope, I'm fed up of it. I'm fed up of women being harassed by the men in dresses because they want to preserve female only spaces. I'm fed up of the death threats to women who speak out, disgusted that an elected representative was unable to attend their own party conference because they feared physical violence from the men in dresses.
There's no middle way here. Women's rights must be preserved at any cost. They are hard won and the men in dresses need to deal with it by taking off the dress or committing to the sex change process. Self ID gender recognition is wrong and it's another expression of white male privilege trampling over hard won women's rights, reversing decades of progress.
I feel like you should meet some trans people and not form your entire position from Twitter
And yet we have a female MP who was threatened with violence if she attended the Labour conference. That is the movement. No one is disowning it either, in fact they're all over the place saying she deserved it and it's a good example of how they are succeeding in silencing dissent.
Errm, I've disowned it; I've said both sides are as bad as each other; feeding off hatred. And in the middle are trans people who just want to get on with their lives. It's odd that it's the left that seems so striven by this.
I don't know if you've read them - and I don't know if you care - but I've mentioned anecdotes in the past about friends of mine who wanted to, and have, transitioned.
Calling them 'men in dresses' is just brainless rubbish. Especially as one was a female-to-male...
One of the great British computing pioneers was female-to-male trans - the great Sophie (nee Roger) Wilson.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Léon, non?
Do they have flint in France to knap dildos out of?
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
I can't be the only person distraught that Farron isn't the LibDem leader right now.
We all remember how he got himself into knots over homosexuality, I would love to see him get into similar... issues... over trans rights.
IIRC the knot Farron got into scuppered the entire liberal edifice. The big point about liberalism is that it allows a huge public space for difference of opinion while maximally allowing people to act feely and minimising the number of things that are either compulsory or forbidden by law.
Farron, while not wanting to criminalise gay sexual activity, personally had a difficulty with it on the same religious grounds that millions, probably billions, of people do (though not me). Curiously liberals found this difficult. Liberals really seem to struggle with liberalism.
Absolutely. True tolerance is tolerating behaviour that you, personally, disapprove of. Many people who consider themselves liberal are no such thing: they are just little autocrats who disapprove of and want to ban different things to autocrats of previous generations.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
I like to think he would veer violently between the two, depending on his wine intake, testosterone levels, the time of day, recent sexual success (or lack of) and the prevailing weather, with occasional diversions where he suddenly cares passionately about the fate of lemurs in a zoo in southern Madagascar, before returning to his justified contempt for the French version of kinabalu
Christ, imagine how chauvinistic he’d be about French food and wine!
Note to budding sock puppets: you have to bide your time here. Build up a reputation. Develop a credible back story. Charging straight in at post number 1 with a long and highly critical rant won't convince anyone, it'll just make people wonder which territory your IP address might be traced to. Particularly if you pick a handle which is remarkably similar to previous short-lived sock puppets.
Ah, but once the comment is posted, it can be used by Russian media as an "example" of Western opinion that supports their position
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Cancel a major Free Trade deal just to salve wounded French pride? Why?!
Expect Germany to squash this.
The French are over-reacting and over-reaching
Spot on. The French would be ill advised to push it too far. Sometimes you have to admit you got beat, and move on.
Macron might now get some movement on an autonomous European military. Even if he could just get Spain, Italy and maybe Germany to commit, he would have the nucleus of a major military alliance.
But asking other European states to economically harm Australia, and their own trading interests, just because France has been humiliated? WTF? Also, quite a few EU states have seriously warm relations with Australia, like Ireland, Italy and Greece, who sent so many migrants Down Under. They will surely tell France to eff off
Ordinarily I'd agree, but Boris has made such a power grab that the EU might feel it necessary to fire a shot across his bows. I'm sure every country in Europe is now feeling a bit queasy about what an unfettered Boris would mean in the long run.
I'd be genuinely amazed if the EU agrees to scupper a massive, complex FTA just because one EU member, however notable, is having a mental breakdown
In fact I don't believe it will even get that far. What would France gain from this even if they could impose their will? Some small revenge on Australia, just for the sake of it, which makes France look petulant and villainous and makes everyone a bit poorer
Surely calmer heads will prevail and Berlin and the EUCO will have a quiet word with M Macron
It may not take the form of Frexit, but I think France is heading for an even more painful national debate about its role in the world than the one we had from 2016-2019.
Eric Zemmour's campaign has so far been the biggest wildcard in the presidential election and his support is growing. His assessment of the Brexit negotiations was that it was a total victory for the UK on the substantive issues, and France's current humiliation over Aukus can only strengthen his narrative.
He's right, on the substantive issues the UK won. The EU won on border pedantry which imposes short term costs on the UK. The UK won on governance and on low cost/cost free divergence which is a huge long term gain as the UK can continue to slowly dilute the EU trade deal and selectively remove EU standards where it suits us.
The reality of this is only now dawning on the EU and France in particular. The freedom to act in our own interests without having any pressure to maintain a single foreign policy with 27 other nations, some of them more difficult to herd than cats, has given the UK a new role in the world. France had assumed America and other nations would now treat with it as the major military power in the EU but all that's happened is the EU has lost global relevance without us.
All it needed to keep the UK in the tent was some minor action on immigration and benefits. It would have been a zero cost solution for the EU and it would have kept the most globally connected and relevant member in the tent pissing out. Now we're out of the tent and absolutely pissing into it, not just pissing in but getting our allies to piss into it as well.
What's the French for 'shackled to a corpse'?
Lol, one does wonder how mainstream Barnier's ideas will become over the next few years. If they gain traction he's opened the door to France either forcing a complete rewriting of the EU treaties or Frexit. Why shouldn't the French courts have legal supremacy in France? The UK has just achieved that and for what looks like a very low cost. The moment the EU gave up on continued ECJ jurisdiction over the TCA was the minute Brexit went from something worthless to something that others would eventually wonder why they don't have. It's happened faster than I anticipated wrt Barnier's campaign positions.
It does seem that having been right at the cutting edge of the negotiations Barnier can see just what a good deal the UK has received, even if some people on the Remain side over here can't.
There is a certain irony that the closer people can be to the European project, the more they can then react against it later on. Its worth noting that one of Barnier's prior roles was he was involved in the European Convention to write the European Constitution along with from the UK side a certain Gisela Stuart MP - who would later go on to become a leading Eurosceptic and ultimately the Chair of Vote Leave and the highest profile Labour Leaver.
That's something that always amused me about Gisela Stuart - what was it about the European Convention that made her such an ardent Eurosceptic? And now the same thing could be happening to Barnier?
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Léon, non?
Do they have flint in France to knap dildos out of?
The French word for flint - silex - puts the French man in sex
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
Добро пожаловать
Большой противолодочный корабль
I think this say it better - a picture of a gay icon.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think Mr Macron plans to transact all EU business in French during his Presidency.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
AU$90bn which is about €55bn and around 60% of the money was being spent in Australia with Australian companies. The French revenue from it was around €20-25bn over 13 years. A big number but not earth shattering.
It's the fear of being left out of what looks like a very significant alliance in a part of the world where France has interests that driving the rhetoric.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Léon, non?
Do they have flint in France to knap dildos out of?
They do have a lot of chalk with concomitant flint.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Léon, non?
Do they have flint in France to knap dildos out of?
It is said to be fundamental to the flavour of wines of the Loire valley.
But perhaps you are a believer in the war against terroir.
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
Léon, non?
Do they have flint in France to knap dildos out of?
They do have a lot of chalk with concomitant flint.
I claim no particular expertise, but surely nobody wants a chalky dildo?
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Cancel a major Free Trade deal just to salve wounded French pride? Why?!
Expect Germany to squash this.
The French are over-reacting and over-reaching
Spot on. The French would be ill advised to push it too far. Sometimes you have to admit you got beat, and move on.
Macron might now get some movement on an autonomous European military. Even if he could just get Spain, Italy and maybe Germany to commit, he would have the nucleus of a major military alliance.
But asking other European states to economically harm Australia, and their own trading interests, just because France has been humiliated? WTF? Also, quite a few EU states have seriously warm relations with Australia, like Ireland, Italy and Greece, who sent so many migrants Down Under. They will surely tell France to eff off
Ordinarily I'd agree, but Boris has made such a power grab that the EU might feel it necessary to fire a shot across his bows. I'm sure every country in Europe is now feeling a bit queasy about what an unfettered Boris would mean in the long run.
I'd be genuinely amazed if the EU agrees to scupper a massive, complex FTA just because one EU member, however notable, is having a mental breakdown
In fact I don't believe it will even get that far. What would France gain from this even if they could impose their will? Some small revenge on Australia, just for the sake of it, which makes France look petulant and villainous and makes everyone a bit poorer
Surely calmer heads will prevail and Berlin and the EUCO will have a quiet word with M Macron
It may not take the form of Frexit, but I think France is heading for an even more painful national debate about its role in the world than the one we had from 2016-2019.
Eric Zemmour's campaign has so far been the biggest wildcard in the presidential election and his support is growing. His assessment of the Brexit negotiations was that it was a total victory for the UK on the substantive issues, and France's current humiliation over Aukus can only strengthen his narrative.
He's right, on the substantive issues the UK won. The EU won on border pedantry which imposes short term costs on the UK. The UK won on governance and on low cost/cost free divergence which is a huge long term gain as the UK can continue to slowly dilute the EU trade deal and selectively remove EU standards where it suits us.
The reality of this is only now dawning on the EU and France in particular. The freedom to act in our own interests without having any pressure to maintain a single foreign policy with 27 other nations, some of them more difficult to herd than cats, has given the UK a new role in the world. France had assumed America and other nations would now treat with it as the major military power in the EU but all that's happened is the EU has lost global relevance without us.
All it needed to keep the UK in the tent was some minor action on immigration and benefits. It would have been a zero cost solution for the EU and it would have kept the most globally connected and relevant member in the tent pissing out. Now we're out of the tent and absolutely pissing into it, not just pissing in but getting our allies to piss into it as well.
What's the French for 'shackled to a corpse'?
Lol, one does wonder how mainstream Barnier's ideas will become over the next few years. If they gain traction he's opened the door to France either forcing a complete rewriting of the EU treaties or Frexit. Why shouldn't the French courts have legal supremacy in France? The UK has just achieved that and for what looks like a very low cost. The moment the EU gave up on continued ECJ jurisdiction over the TCA was the minute Brexit went from something worthless to something that others would eventually wonder why they don't have. It's happened faster than I anticipated wrt Barnier's campaign positions.
It does seem that having been right at the cutting edge of the negotiations Barnier can see just what a good deal the UK has received, even if some people on the Remain side over here can't.
There is a certain irony that the closer people can be to the European project, the more they can then react against it later on. Its worth noting that one of Barnier's prior roles was he was involved in the European Convention to write the European Constitution along with from the UK side a certain Gisela Stuart MP - who would later go on to become a leading Eurosceptic and ultimately the Chair of Vote Leave and the highest profile Labour Leaver.
That's something that always amused me about Gisela Stuart - what was it about the European Convention that made her such an ardent Eurosceptic? And now the same thing could be happening to Barnier?
Yes, ISTR that Boris's start in journalism was as a Brussels reporter, and that this experience shifted him from being something of a euro-idealist to his later position.
Doesn't work for everyone, of course. And an EU pension often keeps people extolling the virtues of the project.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
I like to think he would veer violently between the two, depending on his wine intake, testosterone levels, the time of day, recent sexual success (or lack of) and the prevailing weather, with occasional diversions where he suddenly cares passionately about the fate of lemurs in a zoo in southern Madagascar, before returning to his justified contempt for the French version of kinabalu
Christ, imagine how chauvinistic he’d be about French food and wine!
I'm trying to imagine the Corsican version of Theuniondivvie. I think he'd be...... tiresome
The Corsican version of Malcolmg would be actively, physically dangerous to other members of PB. Trying to blow up their houses, etc
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Yes, that definitely stings. While Macron was banging on about sausages and yet another insular EU squabble the grown ups were making plans to take on China.
That's what Macron's biggest fear and his main source of anger. France wasn't in the room. No one thought to invite them. Biden is supposed to be punishing the UK, America is supposed to be conducting it's transatlantic relationship via Paris/Brussels. France's post-Brexit world view is being shattered and Macron just doesn't know what to do about it. This is another Suez for them.
French gov't in a punitive mood: "France is seeking to scuttle the proposed EU-Australia free-trade agreement, asking fellow European nations to “reconsider” the deal in retaliation for the Morrison government cancelling the $90bn French sub contract"
I think it's unlikely to happen. However, Boris's admirers have been keen to assert that AUUKUS proves Europe now has no global influence whatsoever and it is Boris to whom the world looks for leadership. So the EU might decide to stuff AUS just to make the counter-argument. We now live in strange and unpredictable times.
Interesting - try and hobble a strong competitor in the wine market?
UK wine imports from Oz are up a third Q1 2021 over Q1 2020.
So, depending on value added etc, there might be more via here as it is imported here in bulk mainly. Maybe.
If I remember correctly, Australian wine exports to the UK are large in quantity and small in price. This is why the Chinese inport tarriffs hurt them so much. They bought the fancy stuff.
Speaking of which, has anyone had Penfolds Grange? I have not had the pleasure…
I have, it is truly excellent, if not quite the world class top ten wine they want to think
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
AU$90bn which is about €55bn and around 60% of the money was being spent in Australia with Australian companies. The French revenue from it was around €20-25bn over 13 years. A big number but not earth shattering.
It's the fear of being left out of what looks like a very significant alliance in a part of the world where France has interests that driving the rhetoric.
I thought with all the wrapped up services, developments in Adelaide and the rest it was around AUD$245 billion.
But the French sub company only does 3.5bn or so Euro turnover, so for them it is transformative.
And they had a nice little pipeline of potential or actual orders. The same diesel sub had been offered to India and others.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
Pissed OFF.
You need to get back to Blighty pronto. Before you know it you'll be writing the date back to front.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
I've enjoyed Argentinian Malbecs from, I think, Aldi.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Yes, I think that has to hurt on a personal level. And quite profoundly
Imagine if you went to a sunny party on the beach and everyone was really pally with you, especially that genial old American guy, like this:
Then, six months later, you discover that even as this amiable old Yank was shaking your hand he was secretly planning to build an asbestos refinery next to your house, turn your beloved childhood home into a bingo hall, and arranging to hire your drunken wife as a stripper for a stag party: for Scott Morrison, with Boris Johnson as compere and best man
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Yes, that definitely stings. While Macron was banging on about sausages and yet another insular EU squabble the grown ups were making plans to take on China.
That's what Macron's biggest fear and his main source of anger. France wasn't in the room. No one thought to invite them. Biden is supposed to be punishing the UK, America is supposed to be conducting it's transatlantic relationship via Paris/Brussels. France's post-Brexit world view is being shattered and Macron just doesn't know what to do about it. This is another Suez for them.
The Economist agrees with you.
"Another Suez". But this time Britain is on the *winning* or at least not-humiliated side.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
AU$90bn which is about €55bn and around 60% of the money was being spent in Australia with Australian companies. The French revenue from it was around €20-25bn over 13 years. A big number but not earth shattering.
It's the fear of being left out of what looks like a very significant alliance in a part of the world where France has interests that driving the rhetoric.
I thought with all the wrapped up services, developments in Adelaide and the rest it was around AUD$245 billion.
But the French sub company only does 3.5bn or so Euro turnover, so for them it is transformative.
And they had a nice little pipeline of potential or actual orders. The same diesel sub had been offered to India and others.
It wouldn't make sense for India to get diesel subs, they have already developed nuclear submarine capability and have a domestic manufacturing programme. I can't imagine they'd want to purchase €4bn per unit diesel subs.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Romania makes some really good wines too. I think they're the fifth or sixth largest wine producer in Europe.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Moldovia?
Believe it or not, that was autocorrect. I am well aware it is called Moldova. My computer isn't. True story
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Yes, that definitely stings. While Macron was banging on about sausages and yet another insular EU squabble the grown ups were making plans to take on China.
That's what Macron's biggest fear and his main source of anger. France wasn't in the room. No one thought to invite them. Biden is supposed to be punishing the UK, America is supposed to be conducting it's transatlantic relationship via Paris/Brussels. France's post-Brexit world view is being shattered and Macron just doesn't know what to do about it. This is another Suez for them.
The Economist agrees with you.
"Another Suez". But this time Britain is on the *winning* or at least not-humiliated side.
The French are saying they asked their American counterparts directly if anything was going on and they denied it. Presumably they didn’t even think to ask the British because the possibility didn’t fit their preconceptions about the post-Brexit order.
He's managed to make me feel a tiny bit sorry for a wanker of a French president. But then I remember how Macron behaved over Galileo and Astra Zeneca, and I get over it
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Moldovia?
Believe it or not, that was autocorrect. I am well aware it is called Moldova. My computer isn't. True story
I googled it because I wasn't sure, and there's a Moldavia too. Could easily have been either.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Moldovia?
Believe it or not, that was autocorrect. I am well aware it is called Moldova. My computer isn't. True story
That's disappointing. I thought you were deliberately trying to catch people out and actually DID mean Moldovia
How many blue wall seats is Ed Davey targetting and what has he got to.offer them?
OGH suggests very Remainery places, of course, but I'm not sure how relevant droning on and on and on about Brexit will be by the time we get to 2024, nearly a decade after the referendum, and with no prospect of re-joining the club. Strip that out and it's difficult to see the current iteration of the Lib Dems as much more than Labour with a niche obsession with voting systems - especially if Gove, as we must assume, moves to neutralise the tremendous nimby backlash brewing against the planning reforms (by watering them down.)
I'm not going to say that the yellows will get nowhere next time because there's way, way too long to go for events not to come along that might shift the calculus in their favour, but it doesn't look all that promising for them. I still reckon that Johnson has a good chance of making more gains in the north than losses in the south, and coming out of the next election with an increased majority.
Picking up on the high UK continuing case level, I am still not really clear why the likes of France, Germany, Spain, even Belgium, have been running far below our level.
It can't still be all down to Delta Wave timing, surely?
He's managed to make me feel a tiny bit sorry for a wanker of a French president. But then I remember how Macron behaved over Galileo and Astra Zeneca, and I get over it
As I said previously, I am starting to get a grudging respect for Biden and just how much of a bastard he can be. He can teach Donald a lesson or two.
Picking up on the high UK continuing case level, I am still not really clear why the likes of France, Germany, Spain, even Belgium, have been running far below our level.
It can't still be all down to Delta Wave timing, surely?
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
Utterly different systems.
Though an LEO data constellation can be used to give locations, quite accurately.
OneWeb is actually quite important to the faction at ESA/European space in general that wants to challenge SpaceX in the cheap launch space. In addition to the fact that having OneWeb saved a number of European companies from some pretty ugly contract losses.
The conventional wisdom of European Old Space is that there aren't enough payloads, reusability doesn't save money and SpaceX doesn't exist or something.
While OneWeb is currently launching on Russian rockets, the volume of work is such that it would justify a European light/medium reusable launcher. There are a few projects in the works that could turn into this.
Since I still seem to be here, and we are talking about Oz wine, and approaching cheese-on-toast and wine time.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
General and not a specific recommendation but I have long enjoyed Australian Shiraz but in the last couple of years have come to really enjoy Argentinian Malbecs too. Not a specific brand or bottle recommendation, but if you've not tried it then I'd recommend trying it.
A problem is that the best wine from unusual/surprising places in not exported. I've had stunning Chardonnays in Bulgaria, but you can't get them outside Bulgaria....
That's a fair point. Though as South America is the only continent (besides Antarctica) I've never been to, the Malbec wines I've tried have all been imports available in the UK.
Chile really works on its exports of wine. Bulgaria doesn't attempt the fine wine market - but should. Greece has some very surprising stuff, locally.
Yes, alongside south America south east Europe is the coming place. Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Moldovia (yes, Moldovia) making some magnificent reds, and Greece (as we have discussed) does wonderful whites, now
Romania makes some really good wines too. I think they're the fifth or sixth largest wine producer in Europe.
It was a major wine-producing area in Roman times so its potential quality has been recognised for a long time
Picking up on the high UK continuing case level, I am still not really clear why the likes of France, Germany, Spain, even Belgium, have been running far below our level.
It can't still be all down to Delta Wave timing, surely?
The graph above shows the *change* in case rates. It has gone negative. Cases are falling -
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
One of my colleagues on Friday (the French one who pointed out that France insisting everything be in French would be a sticking point) was adamant that this wouldn't lead to France going down the antagonist role or any alliance with Russia or China. He's right. There's some understandable anger over having this deal nicked from them, anger over being left out of what is the most significant military alliance since the foundation of NATO and fear that they, along with the EU, are being sidelined by the US because EU foreign policy wrt China is a mess of German appeasement vs France's more muscular stance. The latter, IMO, is the big one. The anger over lost money subsides, the fear won't go away.
I think they are pissed about the alliance, but they are more furious about the submarine order.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
I'm with Max, I don't think it's the lost euros that are sending them mad
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Not only that of course but it hurts their pride that the "isolated" Royaume-Uni whom Macron was open mocking at the G7, with claims that Biden was taking their side, were the ones who co-ordinated and arranged this at the time of the G7.
Yes, that definitely stings. While Macron was banging on about sausages and yet another insular EU squabble the grown ups were making plans to take on China.
That's what Macron's biggest fear and his main source of anger. France wasn't in the room. No one thought to invite them. Biden is supposed to be punishing the UK, America is supposed to be conducting it's transatlantic relationship via Paris/Brussels. France's post-Brexit world view is being shattered and Macron just doesn't know what to do about it. This is another Suez for them.
The Economist agrees with you.
"Another Suez". But this time Britain is on the *winning* or at least not-humiliated side.
The French are saying they asked their American counterparts directly if anything was going on and they denied it. Presumably they didn’t even think to ask the British because the possibility didn’t fit their preconceptions about the post-Brexit order.
If the French asked, they must have had suspicions...
Maybe they need to work on their spying operations...
How many blue wall seats is Ed Davey targetting and what has he got to.offer them?
OGH suggests very Remainery places, of course, but I'm not sure how relevant droning on and on and on about Brexit will be by the time we get to 2024, nearly a decade after the referendum, and with no prospect of re-joining the club. Strip that out and it's difficult to see the current iteration of the Lib Dems as much more than Labour with a niche obsession with voting systems - especially if Gove, as we must assume, moves to neutralise the tremendous nimby backlash brewing against the planning reforms (by watering them down.)
I'm not going to say that the yellows will get nowhere next time because there's way, way too long to go for events not to come along that might shift the calculus in their favour, but it doesn't look all that promising for them. I still reckon that Johnson has a good chance of making more gains in the north than losses in the south, and coming out of the next election with an increased majority.
As @Big_G_NorthWales mentioned, the LibDems stance on transgender rights really risks alienating the segment of politically aware, centre-right voters who would be willing to give them a go otherwise, especially given the change in housing plans. I think Davey has decided that, given the Lib Dems' traditional stance on environmental issues and the Greens' general other-worldly stance, that there may be an opening for the LDs to take educated, urban professionals from Labour. In effect, it's going aa bit back to the Charles Kennedy approach, although without the boost from disaffected Muslim voters.
However, it still doesn't solve the bigger issue: what exactly do the LDs stand for?
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
Utterly different systems.
Though an LEO data constellation can be used to give locations, quite accurately.
OneWeb is actually quite important to the faction at ESA/European space in general that wants to challenge SpaceX in the cheap launch space. In addition to the fact that having OneWeb saved a number of European companies from some pretty ugly contract losses.
The conventional wisdom of European Old Space is that there aren't enough payloads, reusability doesn't save money and SpaceX doesn't exist or something.
While OneWeb is currently launching on Russian rockets, the volume of work is such that it would justify a European light/medium reusable launcher. There are a few projects in the works that could turn into this.
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
That's interesting.
It's only this summer that they were proposing to cut Eutelsat out of other projects because of a dual loyalty with perfidious Albion over them having taken a stake in OneWeb.
I remember them pulling the same nonsense over Brexit deal...the voters weren't impressed.
They might also want to be careful, because the Tories could easily spin this kind of action as look what will Labour try and do if they get into power, they still don't accept the people's voting on Brexit and try and overturn it.
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
That's interesting.
It's only this summer that they were proposing to cut Eutelsat out of other projects because of a dual loyalty with perfidious Albion over them having taken a stake in OneWeb.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
I like to think he would veer violently between the two, depending on his wine intake, testosterone levels, the time of day, recent sexual success (or lack of) and the prevailing weather, with occasional diversions where he suddenly cares passionately about the fate of lemurs in a zoo in southern Madagascar, before returning to his justified contempt for the French version of kinabalu
Christ, imagine how chauvinistic he’d be about French food and wine!
I'm trying to imagine the Corsican version of Theuniondivvie. I think he'd be...... tiresome
The Corsican version of Malcolmg would be actively, physically dangerous to other members of PB. Trying to blow up their houses, etc
The French HYUFD would be "successively banal, then glorious, then deplorable, but never mediocre"
I remember them pulling the same nonsense over Brexit deal...the voters weren't impressed.
They might also want to be careful, because the Tories could easily spin this kind of action as look what will Labour try and do if they get into power, they still don't accept the people's voting on Brexit and try and overturn it.
That was back in the theory days. Now we're actually screwed and the Tories are in denial. And not just on Brexit issues. This CO2 problem is real and significant. The industry holds a crisis meeting and points to just how acute and how quickly this will be a problem. Minister then says they are confident of no supply chain issues. Well the people managing the supply chain say different, but people have had enough of experts...
I remember them pulling the same nonsense over Brexit deal...the voters weren't impressed.
They might also want to be careful, because the Tories could easily spin this kind of action as look what will Labour try and do if they get into power, they still don't accept the people's voting on Brexit and try and overturn it.
That was back in the theory days. Now we're actually screwed and the Tories are in denial. And not just on Brexit issues. This CO2 problem is real and significant. The industry holds a crisis meeting and points to just how acute and how quickly this will be a problem. Minister then says they are confident of no supply chain issues. Well the people managing the supply chain say different, but people have had enough of experts...
So Labour are going to negotiate and enact a deal with the EU to solve it, despite not actually being in government?
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
That's interesting.
It's only this summer that they were proposing to cut Eutelsat out of other projects because of a dual loyalty with perfidious Albion over them having taken a stake in OneWeb.
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
That's interesting.
It's only this summer that they were proposing to cut Eutelsat out of other projects because of a dual loyalty with perfidious Albion over them having taken a stake in OneWeb.
I remember them pulling the same nonsense over Brexit deal...the voters weren't impressed.
They might also want to be careful, because the Tories could easily spin this kind of action as look what will Labour try and do if they get into power, they still don't accept the people's voting on Brexit and try and overturn it.
That was back in the theory days. Now we're actually screwed and the Tories are in denial. And not just on Brexit issues. This CO2 problem is real and significant. The industry holds a crisis meeting and points to just how acute and how quickly this will be a problem. Minister then says they are confident of no supply chain issues. Well the people managing the supply chain say different, but people have had enough of experts...
So Labour are going to negotiate and enact a deal with the EU to solve it, despite not actually being in government?
The luuvies produce a lot of hot air, not sure that is the right type of gases we need at the moment.....
Nice work by Boris Johnson - screwing the relationship with France so that he can help Australia serve the USA by fighting China.
Meanwhile the British media is at pains to point out that the submarines will be nuclear-powered, not nuclear-armed. I haven't seen one mainstream news site point out yet that giving nuclear weapons to a non-nuclear power is a breach of the "international rules-based order", specifically of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - but maybe the word "proliferation" has gone on on the index now?
And Tory idiots are saying hey Macron, here's "Global Britain" in your face. Talk about Ruritania and fighting a past war.
They're also saying that Australia was really brave to join the losing side in Vietnam. And they're saying this about five minutes after the British withdrew from Afghanistan, finally admitting there was no chance of them saving Afghanistan from the Afghans.
Nice money for defence contractors, though - and as Keynes said, in the long run everyone's dead.
The only good side to this is that it might mean the end of NATO, which would hardly be untimely given that that alliance has just suffered the biggest military humiliation in its entire ignoble history.
But anything "Australian", cough cough, goes down a treat in the Daily Mail.
Hello, but what's your point. Nnpt says we can give them engines not weapons, and we are giving them engines not weapons. So?
It’s still proliferation, even if it skirts the terms of the non proliferation treaty. The highly enriched fuel for the US/UK boats is suitable for making bombs (ironically, the French nuclear boats use low enriched commercial reactor fuel). https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/ … One can only imagine the drops of sweat trickling down the neck of the International Atomic Energy Agency leadership in Vienna when an Australian delegation comes knocking at its door bringing the good news. The agency, which is currently battling to prevent Iran from acquiring enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon—25 kilograms (0.025 ton) of HEU according to the internationally agreed standard—will have to figure out how to monitor and account for 100 to 200 times that amount without gaining access to secret naval reactor design information. Managing that feat while keeping its credibility intact will be difficult to pull off...
Up until now, there’s been a tacit understanding not to sell nuclear propulsive technology partly for this reason. That has now changed. It far from the only factor likely to drive proliferation over the next decade, but it’s not negligible.
Xavier Bertrand, one of Barnier's rivals for the Republicans nomination, says that France should respond by opening talks with China and Russia to avoid being America's valet.
Yes. There's another tweet (I'll try and find it) where a senior French journalist quotes a top French mandarin at the Quai d'Orsay who says "It is time for us to consider an alliance with the Chinese, though there is a problem with the nature of the Chinese regime"
I mean, WTAF. "A problem?" There's nationalist pique and then there is moral insanity
To be fair to the French, this tweet was followed by hundreds of French people saying Shut up you stupid cretins, deal with the humiliation, China is horrible
Sensible French people are not joining in this madness
I wonder if a French Leon (who would presumably be called Leon) would be among the sensible or ranting on petulantly about revenge?
I like to think he would veer violently between the two, depending on his wine intake, testosterone levels, the time of day, recent sexual success (or lack of) and the prevailing weather, with occasional diversions where he suddenly cares passionately about the fate of lemurs in a zoo in southern Madagascar, before returning to his justified contempt for the French version of kinabalu
Christ, imagine how chauvinistic he’d be about French food and wine!
I'm trying to imagine the Corsican version of Theuniondivvie. I think he'd be...... tiresome
The Corsican version of Malcolmg would be actively, physically dangerous to other members of PB. Trying to blow up their houses, etc
The French HYUFD would be "successively banal, then glorious, then deplorable, but never mediocre"
Comments
Text messages urging people to arrange a third jab through the National Booking Service will be sent on Monday while letters will be sent to those who are eligible later in the week.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10006617/Invitations-booster-jabs-sent-1-5million-people-tomorrow.html
The very best New World wines are the ones that remember that you don't have to do that. Stand up Ridge Monte Bello.
Unless a girl called Roger became a boy called Sophie?
Edit to add. The people who get to go to heaven are:
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.
Basically, be good to people less fortunate than yourself.
€90bn is almost 4% of French GDP. It's equivalent to FOUR YEARS of Thales revenues.
The finest Argentinian Malbecs are now, probably, the best value top quality reds in the world. Truly superb wines, for around £20-£30. In Argie you can buy then for a tenner or less. Nuts
And they are now (along with the Chileans) expanding into Shiraz, and blends, and what have you
Wonderful wines
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58441662
There is a certain irony that the closer people can be to the European project, the more they can then react against it later on. Its worth noting that one of Barnier's prior roles was he was involved in the European Convention to write the European Constitution along with from the UK side a certain Gisela Stuart MP - who would later go on to become a leading Eurosceptic and ultimately the Chair of Vote Leave and the highest profile Labour Leaver.
That's something that always amused me about Gisela Stuart - what was it about the European Convention that made her such an ardent Eurosceptic? And now the same thing could be happening to Barnier?
https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/
It's the fear of being left out of what looks like a very significant alliance in a part of the world where France has interests that driving the rhetoric.
But perhaps you are a believer in the war against terroir.
If you dig into the deal it wasn't all going to France (a lot, ironically, was going to Lockheed Martin in the USA) and of course it was going to be spread over decades. It's not tens of billions vaporising in a day
The loss of the deal will sting, but France has a big defence industry, and they can absorb this. Maybe some jobs will be lost, they will recover
The thing that is making them behave so oddly is the idea they will be completely cut out of the New World Order. France will be without a global role as the West finally aligns against China. That goes against every French instinct. They've had a role in major power politics for 10 centuries
It's why they will eventually calm down and seek an associate membership status allied to Aukus but with special privileges, saving their pride. Or they will finally succeed in persuading the EU to lock and load?
Those are their choices, I can't see them "allying with Putin or Xi" even if they are still blisteringly angry and humiliated as of today
Note that hospital R is now below 1.0
Doesn't work for everyone, of course. And an EU pension often keeps people extolling the virtues of the project.
I only buy about 40-50 bottles a year, and currently I have pivoted my Laithwaites order away from Europe to new world.
Any more recommendations for new world wines?
The Corsican version of Malcolmg would be actively, physically dangerous to other members of PB. Trying to blow up their houses, etc
That's what Macron's biggest fear and his main source of anger. France wasn't in the room. No one thought to invite them. Biden is supposed to be punishing the UK, America is supposed to be conducting it's transatlantic relationship via Paris/Brussels. France's post-Brexit world view is being shattered and Macron just doesn't know what to do about it. This is another Suez for them.
But the French sub company only does 3.5bn or so Euro turnover, so for them it is transformative.
And they had a nice little pipeline of potential or actual orders. The same diesel sub had been offered to India and others.
You need to get back to Blighty pronto. Before you know it you'll be writing the date back to front.
Imagine if you went to a sunny party on the beach and everyone was really pally with you, especially that genial old American guy, like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6MvVppnEto
"We're on the same page!"
Then, six months later, you discover that even as this amiable old Yank was shaking your hand he was secretly planning to build an asbestos refinery next to your house, turn your beloved childhood home into a bingo hall, and arranging to hire your drunken wife as a stripper for a stag party: for Scott Morrison, with Boris Johnson as compere and best man
You'd not be best pleased
"Another Suez". But this time Britain is on the *winning* or at least not-humiliated side.
https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/19/the-strategic-reverberations-of-the-aukus-deal-will-be-big-and-lasting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6MvVppnEto
Biden is such a bastard. Demented but ruthless.
He's managed to make me feel a tiny bit sorry for a wanker of a French president. But then I remember how Macron behaved over Galileo and Astra Zeneca, and I get over it
Wine from South America? You're having a laugh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia
Anyway their wine is nice. Sometimes REALLY nice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/19/brussels-mulls-oneweb-stake-challenge-elon-musks-starlink/amp/
Has our fit of pique over losing access to Galileo worked out by luck and circumstance? Or was it not a fit of pique but strategic genius?
I'm not going to say that the yellows will get nowhere next time because there's way, way too long to go for events not to come along that might shift the calculus in their favour, but it doesn't look all that promising for them. I still reckon that Johnson has a good chance of making more gains in the north than losses in the south, and coming out of the next election with an increased majority.
It can't still be all down to Delta Wave timing, surely?
Every pint takes 20 gallons of water to make, and the barley doesn't walk to the brewery. Check your privilege.
Though an LEO data constellation can be used to give locations, quite accurately.
OneWeb is actually quite important to the faction at ESA/European space in general that wants to challenge SpaceX in the cheap launch space. In addition to the fact that having OneWeb saved a number of European companies from some pretty ugly contract losses.
The conventional wisdom of European Old Space is that there aren't enough payloads, reusability doesn't save money and SpaceX doesn't exist or something.
While OneWeb is currently launching on Russian rockets, the volume of work is such that it would justify a European light/medium reusable launcher. There are a few projects in the works that could turn into this.
Maybe they need to work on their spying operations...
However, it still doesn't solve the bigger issue: what exactly do the LDs stand for?
It's only this summer that they were proposing to cut Eutelsat out of other projects because of a dual loyalty with perfidious Albion over them having taken a stake in OneWeb.
https://www.ft.com/content/412898ff-4500-44ca-a4b4-eccede991b06
Eutelsat being owned by the French Government.
And the EU bloke leading the charge was one ... Thierry Breton.
https://advanced-television.com/2021/05/26/bank-eutelsat-investment-in-oneweb-at-risk/
But it's a nice negotiating lever for us. We'll have Corsica, one third of Galileo, and equivalence for the Finance Sector.
I think we need that Ancient Greek Astronomical Machine to model the wheels-within-wheels.
They might also want to be careful, because the Tories could easily spin this kind of action as look what will Labour try and do if they get into power, they still don't accept the people's voting on Brexit and try and overturn it.
Our bands can tour a bit, and in return we get dinghies full of tambourine players
Museum to the Glory of Nelson & the Iron Duke.
The highly enriched fuel for the US/UK boats is suitable for making bombs (ironically, the French nuclear boats use low enriched commercial reactor fuel).
https://thebulletin.org/2021/09/the-new-australia-uk-and-us-nuclear-submarine-announcement-a-terrible-decision-for-the-nonproliferation-regime/
… One can only imagine the drops of sweat trickling down the neck of the International Atomic Energy Agency leadership in Vienna when an Australian delegation comes knocking at its door bringing the good news. The agency, which is currently battling to prevent Iran from acquiring enough fissile material to build a nuclear weapon—25 kilograms (0.025 ton) of HEU according to the internationally agreed standard—will have to figure out how to monitor and account for 100 to 200 times that amount without gaining access to secret naval reactor design information. Managing that feat while keeping its credibility intact will be difficult to pull off...
Up until now, there’s been a tacit understanding not to sell nuclear propulsive technology partly for this reason. That has now changed.
It far from the only factor likely to drive proliferation over the next decade, but it’s not negligible.
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1439578234136432646?s=19