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Can Starmer get a conference boost? – politicalbetting.com

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    ping said:

    140/1 on 40%+ are pretty good odds, too.

    What is the biggest conference bounce on record?

    Not sure. But the biggest one I can recall is my boy Dave turning a 10% Lab lead into an 8% Con lead during the 2007 conferences.

    It was when Brown was thinking of calling a snap election.

    One of Brown’s MPs even wrote this seldom mentioned piece during those heady days.

    'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority'


    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
    A lot of people at that time (prior to Dave's conference speech) had a similar view of Cameron as many now have of Starmer. This is why, though I am not a Labour supporter, I would not write Starmer off
    The comparison between Cameron and Starmer is extremely weak.

    Cameron managed consistent poll leads from September 2005 to June 2007. Brown managed consistent poll leads then from July 2007 with Cameron regaining consistent leads again by October. By the 2010 election Cameron had achieved polling leads for all but 3 months of his leadership. July - Sept 2007 were the only months in the 4.5 years he was opposition leader that he didn't have very consistent poll leads.

    image

    In contrast Starmer has achieved consistent poll leads: Never
    image
    Personality Ratings

    Sep 2006
    Blair 22 Cameron 19 (Brown as Chancellor got 8)

    May 2010
    Cameron 24 Brown 3

    Jun 20
    Boris 64 Sir Keir 30
    Sep 20
    Boris 67 Sir Keir 25
    Jun 21
    Boris 61 Sir Keir 16




  • rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    edited September 2021

    Given age profile of infections (65+ falling rapidly) possibility that Hospitalisations could start following suit soon too:

    As 65+ now make up c55% of admissions in England (was 28% july ish time) that purple line key.

    Starting to see it, with 17% and 12% falls in admissions compared to same day prev week.

    Possibility those in hospital goes below 6000 by wkend.


    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1438525623773712390?s=20

    Looks good on the data. I think the pandemic is over. That's how it feels. The risk is the NHS. It's under great pressure with the backlog and if you add in a worse than usual winter, flu etc plus still lots of Delta, it could be tipping over in places. I think we'll choose to live with that rather than do any more serious lockdown, but it wouldn't be an easy decision to take either way.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21
  • So Robin Walker Minister for Schools… all for levelling up apparently… maybe we will all get to inherit a Parliamentary seat that our father held…
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Just finished listening to the vid on the Oz submarine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Y4QQ8Hm3k

    Interesting practices by the French supplier - hiring figures who had previously been handling stuff on the other side.

    Sleepy of the Australians to allow it, and to allow themselves to design a process which give their supplier an effective monopoly very early on.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Don’t just add the Greens VI to Labour

    Owen Jones

    ‘Labour bans delegates from debating a motion committing the party to the Green New Deal that Keir Starmer promised in his leadership bid to put at the heart of everything he did.

    Undemocratic, authoritarian, and a massive up yours at younger voters in particular.’

    https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1438530436146343936?s=21
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    We've Brexited. We may make them legal.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    MattW said:

    Just finished listening to the vid on the Oz submarine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Y4QQ8Hm3k

    Interesting practices by the French supplier - hiring figures who had previously been handling stuff on the other side.

    Sleepy of the Australians to allow it, and to allow themselves to design a process which give their supplier an effective monopoly very early on.

    I think the door between the MoD and UK arms industry might also interest.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    MattW said:

    Just finished listening to the vid on the Oz submarine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Y4QQ8Hm3k

    Interesting practices by the French supplier - hiring figures who had previously been handling stuff on the other side.

    Sleepy of the Australians to allow it, and to allow themselves to design a process which give their supplier an effective monopoly very early on.

    I think the door between the MoD and UK arms industry might also interest.
    Or between the DoD and Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    We've Brexited. We may make them legal.
    They're already legal in Germany.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    isam said:

    Don’t just add the Greens VI to Labour

    Owen Jones

    ‘Labour bans delegates from debating a motion committing the party to the Green New Deal that Keir Starmer promised in his leadership bid to put at the heart of everything he did.

    Undemocratic, authoritarian, and a massive up yours at younger voters in particular.’

    https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1438530436146343936?s=21

    That's Slab buggered yet again. After SKS came to Scotland and tried to get the Green vote for Slab.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    malcolmg said:

    Ministry of Defence has confirmed the Scottish Government has requested military assistance to deal with pressure on the ambulance service north of the border

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1438545544859856896?s=20

    It is just so stupid that it is even a thing
    It is Scotland unionists inflate anything to do with Scotland and always make out it is a big deal whilst ignoring 10x the disasters in England. However you knew that but wanted to add your put down to the pile.
    The Unionists get excited when SG don't do X, and excited when they do ...
  • A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    The 3rd World is what I recall the term was when I was first starting to become a hard left social democrat in my mid teens.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    In a Yes Minister scene it talked about underdeveloped countries being term 'Less developed countries' due to it being seen as offence.

    When I was at school they had become LEDCs and MEDCs (Less/More Economically Developed Countries) presumably when 'less developed' had been objected to, but they had also introduced 'NIC's (Newly industrialised/industrialising Countries) presumably as some objected to being lumped in one or the lesser bracket (In fairness there is a big difference).
  • tlg86 said:
    Fair point to make. If this agreement is as profound and ground breaking as is being suggested, then will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops and under what circumstances?
  • So Robin Walker Minister for Schools… all for levelling up apparently… maybe we will all get to inherit a Parliamentary seat that our father held…

    Inherit?

    He won the seat from Labour.
  • tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20

    So boosters are probably gilding the lilly, to some extent. As even cases seem to be falling, the rationale is getting a bit weaker.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    isam said:

    Don’t just add the Greens VI to Labour

    Owen Jones

    ‘Labour bans delegates from debating a motion committing the party to the Green New Deal that Keir Starmer promised in his leadership bid to put at the heart of everything he did.

    Undemocratic, authoritarian, and a massive up yours at younger voters in particular.’

    https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1438530436146343936?s=21

    Yes, Owen is getting frustrated.
  • tlg86 said:

    Been out and about in God’s own county this afternoon so not been on PB. I assume TSE is now a fully paid member of the Boris Johnson fan club given how much we’ve annoyed the French?

    Nope, annoying the French isn't enough for me.

    Full scale war with a tactical nuclear first strike might get me back.

    Making me Governor/Viceroy of France might seal the deal.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    tlg86 said:
    It is a legitimate question though. What is the point of a mutual pact if we are not willing to fight alongside?

    Wilson famously kept us out of Vietnam despite American pressure.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    tlg86 said:
    Fair point to make. If this agreement is as profound and ground breaking as is being suggested, then will we be legally obliged to commit combat troops and under what circumstances?
    “ profound and ground breaking “ 🤣

    Whose now going to admit to calling this fig leaf over the mess “ profound and ground breaking “ ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    Nonsense, he seems to be displaying curiousity about the past to expand his knowledge and, importantly, skepticism of what has been said so he can make up his own mind, an independent thinker. So you seem to be setting him up well.

    What's his reasoning for not believing the 'many brothels' theory?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    In a Yes Minister scene it talked about underdeveloped countries being term 'Less developed countries' due to it being seen as offence.

    When I was at school they had become LEDCs and MEDCs (Less/More Economically Developed Countries) presumably when 'less developed' had been objected to, but they had also introduced 'NIC's (Newly industrialised/industrialising Countries) presumably as some objected to being lumped in one or the lesser bracket (In fairness there is a big difference).
    There does need to be a distinction, but "Developing" can be misleading for places like Venezuela, Afghanistan or the DRC which are not developing, and indeed deteriorating.

    I tend to speak either regionally (MENA for example) or more simply as low, middle or high income countries.
  • A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20

    So boosters are probably gilding the lilly, to some extent. As even cases seem to be falling, the rationale is getting a bit weaker.
    There is evidence that in the very elderly (75+) - and therefore first jabbed antibodies are declining - which they should - what that does to the immune response we simply don't know - so I agree - very much "belt & braces".
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Actually the Gruniad could be in trouble for what they have written there.

    ‘ although nuclear-powered submarines will allow the Australian navy to match Beijing, with vessels able to submerge for months at a time. “

    Match? China’s seventy?

  • tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    What a ridiculous remark. It's good to have ex-PMs in politics with their experience and objectivity. Or would you prefer just newbies, forever sucking up to the leader to climb the greasy pole?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited September 2021

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
  • Given age profile of infections (65+ falling rapidly) possibility that Hospitalisations could start following suit soon too:

    As 65+ now make up c55% of admissions in England (was 28% july ish time) that purple line key.

    Starting to see it, with 17% and 12% falls in admissions compared to same day prev week.

    Possibility those in hospital goes below 6000 by wkend.


    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1438525623773712390?s=20

    Thoughts and prayers for iSAGE and the modelling teams.
    I believe the goalpost have now shifted to you just wait until the winter, its going to be terrible, and the government should be introducing new restrictions now.
    They could be right but because of flu not covid. If the flu vax doesn't quite match the flu variety (as sometimes happens iirc) and combined with so many people with waning flu immunity thanks to last winters lockdown we could see a bad flu year.

    Hopefully I am wrong.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.
    The Labour membership is now smaller, but definitely more centrist. Worth noting for betting purposes on leadership candidates.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    In a Yes Minister scene it talked about underdeveloped countries being term 'Less developed countries' due to it being seen as offence.

    When I was at school they had become LEDCs and MEDCs (Less/More Economically Developed Countries) presumably when 'less developed' had been objected to, but they had also introduced 'NIC's (Newly industrialised/industrialising Countries) presumably as some objected to being lumped in one or the lesser bracket (In fairness there is a big difference).
    There does need to be a distinction, but "Developing" can be misleading for places like Venezuela, Afghanistan or the DRC which are not developing, and indeed deteriorating.

    I tend to speak either regionally (MENA for example) or more simply as low, middle or high income countries.
    That's a very good point. As we know places do not always progress, so developing really does not work.
  • kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    Nonsense, he seems to be displaying curiousity about the past to expand his knowledge and, importantly, skepticism of what has been said so he can make up his own mind, an independent thinker. So you seem to be setting him up well.

    What's his reasoning for not believing the 'many brothels' theory?
    I think it was that Mary Beard was sceptical about there being so many as the guides said there were. Sex sells, especially to tourists.

    A few weeks back I bought him a science book from Ely. He read it on the way back and went very quiet. When I looked over my shoulder, he was reading about procreation. A few minutes later he said: "I feel sick."

    I probably won't have to teach him about the birds and the bees: he'll have it all figured out in the next month or so...

    (And does that even matter aged 7? It might depend on the kid, but I think not.)
  • "Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said: 'It does look like those strongly expressed views that we would see a surge in infections after schools went back has not turned out to be the case.' "

    (Mail)


    Which group of never-off-the-BBC-and-Sky independent scientists could he have in mind?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20

    So boosters are probably gilding the lilly, to some extent. As even cases seem to be falling, the rationale is getting a bit weaker.
    There is evidence that in the very elderly (75+) - and therefore first jabbed antibodies are declining - which they should - what that does to the immune response we simply don't know - so I agree - very much "belt & braces".
    Peston for one wouldn’t understand that antibodies are not the only part of the immune system...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Actually the Gruniad could be in trouble for what they have written there.

    ‘ although nuclear-powered submarines will allow the Australian navy to match Beijing, with vessels able to submerge for months at a time. “

    Match? China’s seventy?

    The RAN can only crew 3 of their current 6 subs, and their SSN fleet is well over a decade away.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Given age profile of infections (65+ falling rapidly) possibility that Hospitalisations could start following suit soon too:

    As 65+ now make up c55% of admissions in England (was 28% july ish time) that purple line key.

    Starting to see it, with 17% and 12% falls in admissions compared to same day prev week.

    Possibility those in hospital goes below 6000 by wkend.


    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1438525623773712390?s=20

    Thoughts and prayers for iSAGE and the modelling teams.
    I believe the goalpost have now shifted to you just wait until the winter, its going to be terrible, and the government should be introducing new restrictions now.
    They could be right but because of flu not covid. If the flu vax doesn't quite match the flu variety (as sometimes happens iirc) and combined with so many people with waning flu immunity thanks to last winters lockdown we could see a bad flu year.

    Hopefully I am wrong.
    No worrying signs for flu elsewhere. Covid precautions are pretty good for other airborne viruses...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    Nonsense, he seems to be displaying curiousity about the past to expand his knowledge and, importantly, skepticism of what has been said so he can make up his own mind, an independent thinker. So you seem to be setting him up well.

    What's his reasoning for not believing the 'many brothels' theory?
    I think it was that Mary Beard was sceptical about there being so many as the guides said there were. Sex sells, especially to tourists.

    A few weeks back I bought him a science book from Ely. He read it on the way back and went very quiet. When I looked over my shoulder, he was reading about procreation. A few minutes later he said: "I feel sick."

    I probably won't have to teach him about the birds and the bees: he'll have it all figured out in the next month or so...

    (And does that even matter aged 7? It might depend on the kid, but I think not.)
    Mary Beard is a bit of a party pooper, I recall from one of her books her pointing out the unlikelihood of all those neat descriptions of battle progressions in ancient battles really being so neat and tidy.
  • isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    I quite like 'boring' politics. If politics is boring, then it's probably working. If politics is exciting, then things are probably going wrong.

    Politics has been anything but boring since 2008...
    Yes but you aren't a revolutionary communist who wants to overthrow the capitalist system....
  • "Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said: 'It does look like those strongly expressed views that we would see a surge in infections after schools went back has not turned out to be the case.' "

    (Mail)


    Which group of never-off-the-BBC-and-Sky independent scientists could he have in mind?

    During today's run, I listened to a Radio 5 science podcast from a month or so back. The speaker they had on claimed 100,000 cases a day when schools went back.

    Fortunately she was wrong...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Argentinian Twitterers are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that AUKUS has bugger all to do with China, but is actually an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy to encircle Argentina down in the south Atlantic/Pacific (Chile is apparently a secret AUKUS ally) and thus prevent the country EVER regaining the Malvinas, or claiming Antarctic territory


    I kid you not. And these are people with 1000s of followers. It is a strange country
  • kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.
    The Labour membership is now smaller, but definitely more centrist. Worth noting for betting purposes on leadership candidates.
    Yes. There a lot of leftist loyalists like me who don't rock the boat but tend to vote left when there's a choice. But the noisy left has mostly drifted off.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Actually the Gruniad could be in trouble for what they have written there.

    ‘ although nuclear-powered submarines will allow the Australian navy to match Beijing, with vessels able to submerge for months at a time. “

    Match? China’s seventy?

    The RAN can only crew 3 of their current 6 subs, and their SSN fleet is well over a decade away.
    The Agreements got to “match up” somehow or else it’s starts to look like a gimmick to distract from the mess they’ve got us into.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    Argentinian Twitterers are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that AUKUS has bugger all to do with China, but is actually an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy to encircle Argentina down in the south Atlantic/Pacific (Chile is apparently a secret AUKUS ally) and thus prevent the country EVER regaining the Malvinas, or claiming Antarctic territory


    I kid you not. And these are people with 1000s of followers. It is a strange country

    Silly. Though Chile has been a good ally to us at times haven't they?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited September 2021
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Argentinian Twitterers are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that AUKUS has bugger all to do with China, but is actually an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy to encircle Argentina down in the south Atlantic/Pacific (Chile is apparently a secret AUKUS ally) and thus prevent the country EVER regaining the Malvinas, or claiming Antarctic territory


    I kid you not. And these are people with 1000s of followers. It is a strange country

    Silly. Though Chile has been a good ally to us at times haven't they?
    Amusing.

    Yes Chile is a good ally of the Anglosphere West in Lat Am.

    It is also the only truly developed nation down there, and, partly for that reason, loathed by its neighbours, who think the Chileans are all up themselves
  • isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    My point was I am surprised she didn't rip up her membership as soon as Jezza went and Starmer got selected.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
  • MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.
    I wonder how many members momentum have these days.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Reminds me of working somewhere around 10 years ago trying to come up with a new term for NEETs, worried that it was becoming a perjorative label (to whom, I don't know), when I'd assume the label is pretty irrelevant if describing the same thing. Don't know if they ever managed to get a new label.
  • MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.
    I wonder how many members momentum have these days.

    8,000 voted in their last internal election.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Farooq said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.
    The Labour membership is now smaller, but definitely more centrist. Worth noting for betting purposes on leadership candidates.
    Most people who are members of a party are weirdos. People who leave them because they are too mainstream are the weirdest of the lot.
    That is a bloody excellent point, I may steal it.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.
    I wonder how many members momentum have these days.
    Have they all piled into the greens ?
  • MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.

    Yep, I think so.

  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    I quite like 'boring' politics. If politics is boring, then it's probably working. If politics is exciting, then things are probably going wrong.

    Politics has been anything but boring since 2008...
    Yes but you aren't a revolutionary communist who wants to overthrow the capitalist system....
    Aren't most of them now #10 advisers?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    Nonsense, he seems to be displaying curiousity about the past to expand his knowledge and, importantly, skepticism of what has been said so he can make up his own mind, an independent thinker. So you seem to be setting him up well.

    What's his reasoning for not believing the 'many brothels' theory?
    I think it was that Mary Beard was sceptical about there being so many as the guides said there were. Sex sells, especially to tourists.

    A few weeks back I bought him a science book from Ely. He read it on the way back and went very quiet. When I looked over my shoulder, he was reading about procreation. A few minutes later he said: "I feel sick."

    I probably won't have to teach him about the birds and the bees: he'll have it all figured out in the next month or so...

    (And does that even matter aged 7? It might depend on the kid, but I think not.)
    When we were expecting our third daughter, our oldest - then 4 - was naturally curious about how the baby got there. We attempted to explain the process, in terms a child could understand. "Does it hurt"? she asked, incredulous. "Not really"my wife replied. "Does it feel funny?" she went on. "It does, a bit" my wife conceded. Then, a reflective pause, followed by, shocked by the realisation: "You've done in three times!"

    Later that year, our middle daughter worried about what would happen when Father Christmas died. "Don't worry," we heard our oldest explain, breezily. At some point, Father Christmas will put his willy in Mrs. Christmas's bits, and a new Father Christmas will grow."

    We reassured oursleves that she had grasped the general idea.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC Three set to return as TV channel after Ofcom gives green light
    Service was taken off air in 2016, but corporation says some younger viewers still want linear TV

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/16/bbc-three-return-tv-channel-ofcom

    Who....I don't know a single kid who watches "linear tv". In fact, hardly any tv at all....its all YouTube, Twitch, Social Media, then Netflix....then "tv".

    My little 'un does. With a healthy amount of Youtube as well.
    They must be really little. Other than LAFC games, I don't think my children have watched linear TV in five years, maybe longer.
    He's seven. He quite likes CITV at the moment.

    On YouTube he watches some really weird stuff. Like documentaries on Pompeii. Including one by Mary Beard.

    This led him to drawing a map of Pompeii, and giving a tour of it to his grandparents. "This is the amphitheater. These are the shops. These are houses. These are the roads. And here are the brothels. Some say they had a lot of brothels, but I don't think they did..."

    I am a bad parent. ;)
    Nonsense, he seems to be displaying curiousity about the past to expand his knowledge and, importantly, skepticism of what has been said so he can make up his own mind, an independent thinker. So you seem to be setting him up well.

    What's his reasoning for not believing the 'many brothels' theory?
    I think it was that Mary Beard was sceptical about there being so many as the guides said there were. Sex sells, especially to tourists.

    A few weeks back I bought him a science book from Ely. He read it on the way back and went very quiet. When I looked over my shoulder, he was reading about procreation. A few minutes later he said: "I feel sick."

    I probably won't have to teach him about the birds and the bees: he'll have it all figured out in the next month or so...

    (And does that even matter aged 7? It might depend on the kid, but I think not.)
    Mary Beard is a bit of a party pooper, I recall from one of her books her pointing out the unlikelihood of all those neat descriptions of battle progressions in ancient battles really being so neat and tidy.
    That's bringing back memories of Latin lessons. It took me years to realise what this sort of thing meant:

    Iugurtha aciem instruxit = Iugurtha drew out the line-of-battle [ie deployed his army for battle]
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.

    Yep, I think so.

    Then again, HYFUD says people like me and Casino_Royale quitting the Tories is a sign that the Tory party is heading in the right direction so I guess it's all a matter of perspective. 🤷‍♂️
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
    Yes. Ash is great but she isn't particularly Labour. Owen Jones is more totemic for me. He's been Labour all his life under all leaders including Blair. If he were to leave, that would be meaningful and serious. You'd have to suspect the fire has gone out.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited September 2021

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    That’s because Starmer is totally useless.
    Someone mentioned that he was Labour’s IDS earlier.

    No, IDS actually had more charisma.
    True fact.

    (Corbyn was Labour’s IDS).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Surely a sign that the party is heading in the right direction of people like her are quitting.

    Yep, I think so.

    Then again, HYFUD says people like me and Casino_Royale quitting the Tories is a sign that the Tory party is heading in the right direction so I guess it's all a matter of perspective. 🤷‍♂️
    Surprisingly few people appear to meet HYUFD's standards for being proper Conservatives. I suspect, in fact, there might only be one :wink:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
    Yes. Ash is great but she isn't particularly Labour. Owen Jones is more totemic for me. He's been Labour all his life under all leaders including Blair. If he were to leave, that would be meaningful and serious. You'd have to suspect the fire has gone out.
    She is part of one of the funniest things I’ve seen - the novara media reaction to 2019 election....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
    There's nothing wrong with language evolving, but if people just keep coming up with hip new terms on the misunderstanding that the terms themselves are the problem and so negative perceptions will cease if you come up with a new one, that's just plain dumb.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
    It does when Mr Rees-Mogg starts talking about the alliance with New Holland against Cathay.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
    Yes. Ash is great but she isn't particularly Labour. Owen Jones is more totemic for me. He's been Labour all his life under all leaders including Blair. If he were to leave, that would be meaningful and serious. You'd have to suspect the fire has gone out.
    Do you think the churn of people who go from being members, activists etc of a party, to suddenly refusing to vote for them is higher than your everyday man in the street who doesn't follow it so closely?

    As far as I know, most of my friends and family have voted for the same party all their lives, yet on PB there are dozens who go from one extreme (in terms of fervent support) to the other
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
    Yes. Ash is great but she isn't particularly Labour. Owen Jones is more totemic for me. He's been Labour all his life under all leaders including Blair. If he were to leave, that would be meaningful and serious. You'd have to suspect the fire has gone out.
    Do you think the churn of people who go from being members, activists etc of a party, to suddenly refusing to vote for them is higher than your everyday man in the street who doesn't follow it so closely?

    As far as I know, most of my friends and family have voted for the same party all their lives, yet on PB there are dozens who go from one extreme (in terms of fervent support) to the other
    My wife considers herself (and is) pretty mainstream politically - yet has voted for five different parties at the last five GEs.

    I think political loyalty is much less string than it was. The extent to which all votes are up for grabevery time is growing.
  • kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    May is asking a very good question, btw.

    The orgasmic sighs last night about this deal from PB Tories were hilarious.

    On balance I think this sounds like a good thing for the U.K., but it does raise all sorts of questions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited September 2021
    ..
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    That’s because Starmer is totally useless.
    Someone mentioned that he was Labour’s IDS earlier.

    No, IDS actually had more charisma.
    True fact.

    (Corbyn was Labour’s IDS).
    IDS is more charismatic than Starmer.

    Starmer for Labour though is a huge improvement. He's not a loony. (FWIW I think EdM was marginally better, but anything is better than Corbyn and Brown)
  • kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Ash Sarkar

    Cancelled my Labour membership for a variety of reasons, but honestly, the politics of the present leadership being completely fucking boring is prime amongst them.

    https://twitter.com/ayocaesar/status/1438550228882403335?s=21

    Surprised she was still a member, as a self identified literal communist i can't imagine a Starmer led Labour party isn't exactly going to align with her world view.

    She was a member for two years.

    Yet it's a disaster to lose such rock solid supporters. A surprising number of people who are the heart and soul of the party didn't use to back it. I'm not one to say only loyalists matters, but there are surely limits.
    Yes. Ash is great but she isn't particularly Labour. Owen Jones is more totemic for me. He's been Labour all his life under all leaders including Blair. If he were to leave, that would be meaningful and serious. You'd have to suspect the fire has gone out.

    Talking of whom:


    Owen Jones Rose
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    2h Labour bans delegates from debating a motion committing the party to the Green New Deal that Keir Starmer promised in his leadership bid to put at the heart of everything he did.

    Undemocratic, authoritarian, and a massive up yours at younger voters in particular.
  • "Tory lockdown sceptics have hailed the promotion of Stephen Barclay to Cabinet Office minister, as they claimed he would be more alive to the economic costs of another lockdown this winter than Michael Gove.

    With Mr Gove moving to become Housing Secretary, backbenchers opposed to ongoing Covid-19 restrictions believe the composition of the key decision-makers in Government has swung further in their favour. "

    Telegraph
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Argentinian Twitterers are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that AUKUS has bugger all to do with China, but is actually an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy to encircle Argentina down in the south Atlantic/Pacific (Chile is apparently a secret AUKUS ally) and thus prevent the country EVER regaining the Malvinas, or claiming Antarctic territory


    I kid you not. And these are people with 1000s of followers. It is a strange country

    Silly. Though Chile has been a good ally to us at times haven't they?
    Amusing.

    Yes Chile is a good ally of the Anglosphere West in Lat Am.

    It is also the only truly developed nation down there, and, partly for that reason, loathed by its neighbours, who think the Chileans are all up themselves
    And it has pretty good skiing. I had a fun week in Valle Nevado, before heading to Santiago.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
    It does when Mr Rees-Mogg starts talking about the alliance with New Holland against Cathay.
    I rather like Rees-Mogg. A mixed bag clearly, but a decent one. Leader of the house is precisely where he is at his best. (I'd quite like to see him as PM in some ways too, but just fictionally)
  • Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    That’s because Starmer is totally useless.
    Someone mentioned that he was Labour’s IDS earlier.

    No, IDS actually had more charisma.
    True fact.

    (Corbyn was Labour’s IDS).
    IDS is more charismatic than Starmer.

    Starmer for Labour though is a huge improvement. He's not a loony. (FWIW I think EdM was marginally better, but anything is better than Corbyn and Brown)
    Disagree.

    Brown > Starmer > Miliband > Corbyn

    In terms of “electability”.

    And, it turned out that Brown wasn’t that electable.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20

    Damn it, I wanted Moderna to be better than Pfizer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    Sir Clive Sinclair dies aged 81

    His legacy has lived on with the use of the spectrum ZX for the SAGE modelling.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited September 2021

    "Tory lockdown sceptics have hailed the promotion of Stephen Barclay to Cabinet Office minister, as they claimed he would be more alive to the economic costs of another lockdown this winter than Michael Gove.

    With Mr Gove moving to become Housing Secretary, backbenchers opposed to ongoing Covid-19 restrictions believe the composition of the key decision-makers in Government has swung further in their favour. "

    Telegraph

    Boris’s reshuffle was I think a half-decent one.
    (Apart from Nadine Dorries, who is obviously there because Boris drunkenly agreed to put her in Cabinet as a “dare”.)

    But Barclay is a lightweight.

    So is Truss, but she’s rather better at self-promotion.
  • This apparently is a "Brexit triumph", according to the UKIPograph. Hmmm. Brexit: a triumph of small mindedness over rationality lol!

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-triumph-as-crown-stamp-returns-to-pint-glasses-after-bonfire-of-eu-rules/ar-AAOvVsG?ocid=entnewsntp
  • Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
    It does when Mr Rees-Mogg starts talking about the alliance with New Holland against Cathay.
    I rather like Rees-Mogg. A mixed bag clearly, but a decent one. Leader of the house is precisely where he is at his best. (I'd quite like to see him as PM in some ways too, but just fictionally)
    I'd imagine you'd consider him a bit of a wet lettuce leftie liberal?
  • Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    Did someone say Corbyn is expecting to be reinstated into labour

    Keir Starmer announces support for AUKUS

    Corbyn - Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice, and human rights to the world #AUKUS

    Of course he never comments on China's provocations.
    Arhhh but remember they are part of the "Global South" *, so escape any criticism in the weird Corbyn book of the oppressor vs opposed nations.

    * one of the most ridiculous wokey terms for developing nations, as half the nations aren't even in the southern hemisphere....and loads that are, aren't included.
    Is "wokey" just your general word for inexact and misleading now?
    Developing world has now been deemed unacceptable and offensive by some organisations. You must use something like Global South instead, but then that is now controversial in itself among some.
    I only reason I use it, was because Jezza does.
    Developing world itself was a euphemism 30 years ago. Before that it was developed world and undeveloped world.
    I thought it was The Third World.
    I mis-remember: it was underdeveloped, not undeveloped. But I think you're right, and underdeveloped was itself a euphemism for 'third world'.

    No doubt in fifteen years or so Global South will be felt to be too pejorative and a new term invented.
    Global South is now already passing into no no territory....
    Language does evolve though. I don't really see the problem.
    It does when Mr Rees-Mogg starts talking about the alliance with New Holland against Cathay.
    I rather like Rees-Mogg. A mixed bag clearly, but a decent one. Leader of the house is precisely where he is at his best. (I'd quite like to see him as PM in some ways too, but just fictionally)
    He’s a cretin, and like kryptonite to swing voters.
    Which is why they have to hide him away during elections.
  • Dr Duncan Robertson @Dr_D_Robertson

    1 in 500* British people have died of Covid-19

    * A = UK deaths within 28 days of a positive test = 134,647
    B = Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate = 157,669
    C = ONS population estimate = 67,081,000
    C/A = 1:498
    C/B = 1:425
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited September 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    A study out of the University of Edinburgh shows that vaccine efficacy against severe COVID-19 has NOT significantly decreased since Delta became the predominant variant, is around 92%, and does NOT differ significantly between AstraZeneca, Pfizer, and Moderna’s vaccines.

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1438499445562294274?s=20

    Damn it, I wanted Moderna to be better than Pfizer.
    It has been shown to be the case in other studies, including the one out earlier this week, that formed part of JCVI decision.
  • This apparently is a "Brexit triumph", according to the UKIPograph. Hmmm. Brexit: a triumph of small mindedness over rationality lol!

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-triumph-as-crown-stamp-returns-to-pint-glasses-after-bonfire-of-eu-rules/ar-AAOvVsG?ocid=entnewsntp

    Any old shit is a “Brexit triumph”.

    There’s a psychological term for this - having bought the Skoda*, you go out of your way to find reasons to justify your decision.

    *Am aware the metaphor no longer works.
  • Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    That’s because Starmer is totally useless.
    Someone mentioned that he was Labour’s IDS earlier.

    No, IDS actually had more charisma.
    True fact.

    (Corbyn was Labour’s IDS).
    IDS is more charismatic than Starmer.

    Starmer for Labour though is a huge improvement. He's not a loony. (FWIW I think EdM was marginally better, but anything is better than Corbyn and Brown)
    Disagree.

    Brown > Starmer > Miliband > Corbyn

    In terms of “electability”.

    And, it turned out that Brown wasn’t that electable.
    Corbyn got more votes and 10+pp higher in 2017 than either Brown or Miliband did in the previous two elections.
    True. But neither ever faced a snap election against Theresa May with a “death tax”.
  • kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:
    Is why its best for former PMs to leave the stage left and not hang around on the backbenchers for long.
    Nonsense. If they have their own perspective to offer and enjoy and are good at backbench or legislative/policy scrutiny (even if they were no good as a PM) then absolutely they should stick around. Some might make it back into government as a Minister perhaps.

    Becoming PM need not mean your days in politics are numbered once you stop. If they end up making themselves look bitter who cares? Better that than ex PMs have no prospect of political contribution, particularly when they have so many years to live and will be criticised if they cash in.
    May regularly asks Johnson more difficult questions than Starmer - on policy - not politics.
    That’s because Starmer is totally useless.
    Someone mentioned that he was Labour’s IDS earlier.

    No, IDS actually had more charisma.
    True fact.

    (Corbyn was Labour’s IDS).
    I would say that Corbyn was William Hague: popular and even loved by his party faithful, but not taken seriously by the broader electorate.
  • Why has Jesse Norman got the heave-ho?
  • Sir Clive Sinclair dies aged 81

    His legacy has lived on with the use of the spectrum ZX for the SAGE modelling.

    Ouch.

    It's not the processing power that matters but the garbage inputs that count.

    But RIP. Visionary. My generation of software guys were pretty much all ZX owners as kids.

    I was a cut above as my dad had access to an Apple II for a while which we messed around on at weekends.
  • Leaked test results suggest the government and construction industry had early evidence of the dangers posed by cladding, 13 years before the Grenfell Tower fire.

    BBC News - Cladding: Panels failed fire tests 13 years before Grenfell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58584348
This discussion has been closed.