Incidentally, just to add to ongoing discussions around SPOTY, the big sporting event this evening will be Emma Raducanu’s match in the US Open - and if she progresses much further I could see her picking up the SPOTY prize, though I think winning an actual slam will have to wait for the years to come, if at all.
In short, she may have great potential as a tennis player, but in terms of her PR operation she’s already arrived.
She'll win SPOTY on the basis of a couple of last 16's? In an Olympic year with a football team in a final? And Joe Root? And Lewis Hamilton? It'll be a travesty if she's on the shortlist. Winning the Junior prize maybe.
See my point about her PR - it’s a truly awesome operation.
Yeah. I get that. Which is why it would be a travesty. But SPOTY has had PR driven travesties before.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
Alternatively the govt could remove some of the housing props, change taxation and the owners of London houses would be very different. Fewer btl owners, more young workers.
I agree everyone cannot have everything they want, but nor is the status quo particularly fair or optimal in deciding who gets what.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
I've been banging on for a while that our PM is a lefty. He is an entitlement zealot.
Nah Max is right and this is exactly the point he was making. You make a point about this and you're immediately called unpleasant or rude.
Yet I see comments about young people being lazy, sitting indoors all day playing PlayStation, not working during the pandemic and it just gets a pass.
Bunch of hypocrites the lot
There is, however, one way I do call [edit] some young lazy, irresponsibvle and feckless - and that is in not using their vote.
A number of 'young' people on here whinging. They need to take responsibility, work a bit harder, try getting on in life and thus becoming more successful.
Like wot us old people have done.
How much in tuition fees did you pay when you went to uni? Or were you given a grant instead?
What multiple of earnings were you expected to pay for housing?
Did you have a purely contribution based pension scheme?
I have no objections whatsoever to people getting on in life. But don't pull the ladder up after yourself at every turn!
Lol Pal didn't go to university. In my time interest rates were so high I couldn't borrow more than 3.5 times earnings. I worked very hard for my lovely final salary pension. And I have a little DC one too.
All worked hard for. What I have achieved has been built on my own efforts.
So in your head people under 40 do what? Don't work hard? Get fucked.
Thanks for your valuable and thoughtful contribution 👍
I am convinced at this point you are just here to troll, nobody with a brain cell can think what you said
Glad you bought your property on family money. You could never achieve it on your own efforts.
Can somebody explain to me why young people should pay for the care of the elderly, can somebody explain that coherently
They can't mate, all they have is resorting to calling young people greedy or unpleasant for asking the old to pay their own way. The level of entitlement the generation above have is ridiculous.
They bought all the property, pulled up the ladder, leeched off young people for rent and now are leeching off us again to pay for their care.
Not a single person who supports this NI rise has been able to answer why a retired person with £80k in gross income will get £60.5k net (and receive ~£9k in benefits) while a working person on the same gross income will get £55k net and no benefits.
The whole system is stacked against us and I do fear that this will become the start of a brain drain from the UK as people decide they've had enough of being milked by the old who neglected to save for their old age.
I really do think you are way out by suggesting a retired person receives an £80k gross income nett £60.5, as these are figures I just cannot accept as anything other than for an exceptional few, and the vast majority of pensioners will struggle to see £20k pa, even much less
I would also take to task your attitude to the elderly many of whom suffer health issues consistent with ageing as quite unpleasant and to be honest rather surprising
There is an unpleasantness that has crept into this discussion, especially when the debate gets personalised.
@MaxPB stop being a dick. I, and many others, basically agree with what you’re saying, but the way you say it seriously undermines our argument.
I'm fed up of being polite, all it results in is being milked for tax by the selfish and thankless generation above.
Being impolite won't affect that result either though, it happens not because younger people do not object, but because of political calculation.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Nah Max is right and this is exactly the point he was making. You make a point about this and you're immediately called unpleasant or rude.
Yet I see comments about young people being lazy, sitting indoors all day playing PlayStation, not working during the pandemic and it just gets a pass.
Bunch of hypocrites the lot
There is, however, one way I do call [edit] some young lazy, irresponsibvle and feckless - and that is in not using their vote.
A number of 'young' people on here whinging. They need to take responsibility, work a bit harder, try getting on in life and thus becoming more successful.
Like wot us old people have done.
How much in tuition fees did you pay when you went to uni? Or were you given a grant instead?
What multiple of earnings were you expected to pay for housing?
Did you have a purely contribution based pension scheme?
I have no objections whatsoever to people getting on in life. But don't pull the ladder up after yourself at every turn!
Lol Pal didn't go to university. In my time interest rates were so high I couldn't borrow more than 3.5 times earnings. I worked very hard for my lovely final salary pension. And I have a little DC one too.
All worked hard for. What I have achieved has been built on my own efforts.
So in your head people under 40 do what? Don't work hard? Get fucked.
Thanks for your valuable and thoughtful contribution 👍
I am convinced at this point you are just here to troll, nobody with a brain cell can think what you said
Glad you bought your property on family money. You could never achieve it on your own efforts.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
I imagine I could manage, in the unlikely event of my encountering it.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 1h Sunak guest of honour at 1922 reception on Monday - he will tell them tough times are ahead and appeal for unity:
* NI rise to fund health/ social care
* Triple lock suspended
* £20 a week UC uplift ends
* Furlough ends
* Spending review & mini Budget
* COP26/ net zero
It'll be unpopular. Some of it won't be the right option as that's inevitable. But they need to toughen the f*ck up and be prepared to try things.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Can somebody explain to me why young people should pay for the care of the elderly, can somebody explain that coherently
They can't mate, all they have is resorting to calling young people greedy or unpleasant for asking the old to pay their own way. The level of entitlement the generation above have is ridiculous.
They bought all the property, pulled up the ladder, leeched off young people for rent and now are leeching off us again to pay for their care.
Not a single person who supports this NI rise has been able to answer why a retired person with £80k in gross income will get £60.5k net (and receive ~£9k in benefits) while a working person on the same gross income will get £55k net and no benefits.
The whole system is stacked against us and I do fear that this will become the start of a brain drain from the UK as people decide they've had enough of being milked by the old who neglected to save for their old age.
I really do think you are way out by suggesting a retired person receives an £80k gross income nett £60.5, as these are figures I just cannot accept as anything other than for an exceptional few, and the vast majority of pensioners will struggle to see £20k pa, even much less
I would also take to task your attitude to the elderly many of whom suffer health issues consistent with ageing as quite unpleasant and to be honest rather surprising
There is an unpleasantness that has crept into this discussion, especially when the debate gets personalised.
@MaxPB stop being a dick. I, and many others, basically agree with what you’re saying, but the way you say it seriously undermines our argument.
I'm fed up of being polite, all it results in is being milked for tax by the selfish and thankless generation above.
Being impolite won't affect that result either though, it happens not because younger people do not object, but because of political calculation.
We've been polite until now and it hasn't helped, impolite could change that. I've had enough of doffing my cap to old people who got everything and then pulled up all the ladders.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
I don't think it's entitled to say that I should be able to live where people who were in a similar situation to me thirty years ago could. But I can't because house prices have increased hundreds of percent in that time.
That is the same in a lot of places, London is just the worst
I'm in two minds on the subject. It invokes a lot of sympathy that people cannot afford to live where they grew up for example, its common in many villages, but on the other hand I cannot see an obvious solution that the state and taxpayer should enforce, since ultimately tlg86 has the right of it that no one has a right to live where they want.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
Based on the level of anger on this site from working age Tory voters, if Boris and Sunak proceed with this insanity then a Labour poll lead should be absolutely nailed on soon.
We're ahead of the curve and understand that only certain people are screwed by NI which others don't necessarily realise.
Once this is actually announced expect all hell to be brought down upon it. Like the dementia tax.
Lay the Tories. They're determined to lose my vote and the vote of anyone else who works for a living.
I've just been reading today's Guardian over lunch. You (and Max and others) will be pleased to know that their editorial is quite a savage attack on the proposal to raise NI, its impact on working age people, and its unfairness.
This social care proposal is forging some strange alliances.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
Yeah I completely agree, the last two times I've moved jobs both came with payrises that weren't available for people who stuck with the company. I can't imagine staying in a job for more than five years. Most of my friends would say more than three years.
Inertia is a powerful force. I'm not ambitious enough, I dislike disruption, and I don't currently have any personal pressures that would serve as pull factors. I do know people who have moved to jobs which are less well payed in part because longer, stable prospects hold an appeal, so I think there will always be some looking for a life job, but not many are available as there are push factors of cutbacks etc.
Moderation team seams happy to remove bad language but not do anything about an obvious troll who is just here to say stupid things and wind people up.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
Well it might, parties do repudiate their past incarnations if not always explicitly, but given the circumstances of his premiership and its potential at least to have altered the base, I don't think it will be a mere footnote. A chapter, certainly.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
Yeah I completely agree, the last two times I've moved jobs both came with payrises that weren't available for people who stuck with the company. I can't imagine staying in a job for more than five years. Most of my friends would say more than three years.
I wonder if that is more of a London, or at least an urban thing, with more jobs available in a small area.
Also a young person thing - marriage, mortgages, kids all increasing employment inertia and prizing job security over risk taking.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Well. 21% of graduate jobs are in London. Not everyone who ends up there wants to be there. Maybe we should address the lack of high paying jobs, and, crucially, career progression outside the Capital?
Alternatively, don’t encourage so many kids to go to university.
Its effectively financial abuse to encourage teenagers to get tens of thousands into debt before they have a good understanding of what they want to do or experience of the world of work.
Inheritance is a bit like private education. You might not like it and think it should be banned, but people care about doing what they think is best for their loved ones.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
Based on the level of anger on this site from working age Tory voters, if Boris and Sunak proceed with this insanity then a Labour poll lead should be absolutely nailed on soon.
We're ahead of the curve and understand that only certain people are screwed by NI which others don't necessarily realise.
Once this is actually announced expect all hell to be brought down upon it. Like the dementia tax.
Lay the Tories. They're determined to lose my vote and the vote of anyone else who works for a living.
I've just been reading today's Guardian over lunch. You (and Max and others) will be pleased to know that their editorial is quite a savage attack on the proposal to raise NI, its impact on working age people, and its unfairness.
This social care proposal is forging some strange alliances.
Indeed it is and this is a moment of real danger for the Tory party if people like me, Philip, CR and many others that I know irl are agreeing with a Guardian editorial over what should be our own political party. We've got other options unlike old Tory voters who have nowhere else to go.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
He is. I model myself on him. Grumpy old leftie.
He was only 54 when One Foot in the Grave started, which seems crazy.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
I imagine I could manage, in the unlikely event of my encountering it.
Well you're just a teeny bit higher-minded than me. I've noticed this.
Inheritance is a bit like private education. You might not like it and think it should be banned, but people care about doing what they think is best for their loved ones.
James Bond (well Daniel Craig) was in the papers recently saying his kids wont get his fortune, as he disagrees that is best for them. I think he, along with the likes of Warren Buffett, is right on this.
600 people sharing £20bn per year that they have not personally earned is an abomination in our society. It of course makes them very rich, but not all happy or fulfilled.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
A point of historical interest is that in trhe old days moving between pension schemes was really deleterious in the private sector (though one could move between public sector schemes, etc., fairly easily without detriment). Which discouraged moves of jobs. I don't think this was liberalised till, what, 1990-2000?
I have to say, moving pensions does not seem to be as easy as it should be.
I've had a bit of a nightmare trying to move my pension from Aviva
It’s all very highly regulated these days and these companies are wary of the risk.
I am 55 and looking at my retirement options. It has taken capita a month to look into giving me a transfer value and they are still looking at it.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
Yeah I completely agree, the last two times I've moved jobs both came with payrises that weren't available for people who stuck with the company. I can't imagine staying in a job for more than five years. Most of my friends would say more than three years.
Inertia is a powerful force. I'm not ambitious enough, I dislike disruption, and I don't currently have any personal pressures that would serve as pull factors. I do know people who have moved to jobs which are less well payed in part because longer, stable prospects hold an appeal, so I think there will always be some looking for a life job, but not many are available as there are push factors of cutbacks etc.
Define "not ambitious enough." If you're doing a job that you're good at, it's not particularly stressful and you're being paid enough to live reasonably comfortably, then perhaps you'd rather not expend vast amounts of time and energy on "career progression" and greasy pole climbing?
Yours truly has been working for the same firm for 17 years and counting, and has no intention of moving on unless forced. If I flogged myself half to death going into management (for which I wouldn't be suitable anyway) or schlepping round the country every few years trying to progress into slightly better paid roles each time, then what would I get out of it? Probably a house instead of a flat, followed by a coronary. A pointless waste of finite time and energy.
Furlough ending will lead to increased unemployment, no?
No, it should have actually ended earlier, as there have been huge demand for workers, not just the stories for drivers, but with all reopening of hospitality and stay-cationing, there hasn't been enough people in the market to fill all the vacancies.
Instead we have been paying people whose current job doesn't actually exist anymore to sit flipping NFTs for the past 3 months.
I wonder how many of the people who have been paid to do nothing for 18 months have taken the opportunity to improve their skillset.
My guess would be it has been a bit like the exercise from home fad. Some have gone full tilt for it, its changed their lives and thats awesome. The vast majority did it for lockdown #1, got bored, and dropped back in to bad habits of pissing about on the internet.
I have kept up the exercise, dropped the idea of learning a new language.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
He is. I model myself on him. Grumpy old leftie.
I don't believe it.
Not sure how to take that. Are you querying whether I'm a) grumpy, b) old, or c) a leftie? Or all three? For the record, I've always been a) and c), but not b).
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
He is. I model myself on him. Grumpy old leftie.
He was only 54 when One Foot in the Grave started, which seems crazy.
Crumbs. Do I have One Foot in it? Points up an intergenerational issue too. The premise was he was newly retired from being a security guard. Without a mortgage in a nice street. Can anyone imagine that at such an age nowadays? My parents retired aged 52 and 51 after fairly modest earning careers.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
He is. I model myself on him. Grumpy old leftie.
I don't believe it.
Not sure how to take that. Are you querying whether I'm a) grumpy, b) old, or c) a leftie? Or all three? For the record, I've always been a) and c), but not b).
There is a reason to hate taxing workers to give unpaid for, unearned new welfare to pensioners.
What could be more Tory than taxing labour not capital? National insurance has evolved far from its original contributory rationale and is now simply a tax on labour income. Raising income tax instead would hurt those who derive their income from capital - not just pensioners of course but also wealthy Tory donors. I don't understand why anyone is surprised by this move.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
A point of historical interest is that in trhe old days moving between pension schemes was really deleterious in the private sector (though one could move between public sector schemes, etc., fairly easily without detriment). Which discouraged moves of jobs. I don't think this was liberalised till, what, 1990-2000?
I have to say, moving pensions does not seem to be as easy as it should be.
I've had a bit of a nightmare trying to move my pension from Aviva
It’s all very highly regulated these days and these companies are wary of the risk.
I am 55 and looking at my retirement options. It has taken capita a month to look into giving me a transfer value and they are still looking at it.
The pace is funereal.
That, and you have to bear in mind that the people doing the administration are probably paid peanuts, snowed under with work and struggling with antique computer systems.
I used to work in pensions admin about 20 years ago (with Aviva, as it so happens - I'm unsurprised that CHB is also having trouble) and suffered from all of those things in spades. It has probably got considerably worse since. Your valuation request is most likely stuck in somebody's in tray, behind about 82 others and working its way up the pile at a glacial pace.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
There is some Meldrew in there for sure. Although the actor who played him, Richard Wilson, is a leftist, I seem to recall.
He is. I model myself on him. Grumpy old leftie.
I don't believe it.
Not sure how to take that. Are you querying whether I'm a) grumpy, b) old, or c) a leftie? Or all three? For the record, I've always been a) and c), but not b).
Sorry, it was just a cheap Richard Wilson gag. I believe everything you say, although there are far grumpier people than you on this site! Speaking for myself, I've always been c), while I seem to be becoming a) and b) more or less at the same pace.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
I Never said that. I said it would play well in the Red Wall. It will. That is the Tory Party now. The free market is like some vivid dream four hours later. Aware that it happened. You can recall the emotions it stirred. But the details have been long since lost.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
A point of historical interest is that in trhe old days moving between pension schemes was really deleterious in the private sector (though one could move between public sector schemes, etc., fairly easily without detriment). Which discouraged moves of jobs. I don't think this was liberalised till, what, 1990-2000?
I have to say, moving pensions does not seem to be as easy as it should be.
I've had a bit of a nightmare trying to move my pension from Aviva
It’s all very highly regulated these days and these companies are wary of the risk.
I am 55 and looking at my retirement options. It has taken capita a month to look into giving me a transfer value and they are still looking at it.
The pace is funereal.
Tell me about it. I've just spent the morning working out how much unnecessary tax has been caused by the slowness of one such firm supposedly administering pensions on behalf of the relevant pension scheme.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
Yeah I completely agree, the last two times I've moved jobs both came with payrises that weren't available for people who stuck with the company. I can't imagine staying in a job for more than five years. Most of my friends would say more than three years.
Inertia is a powerful force. I'm not ambitious enough, I dislike disruption, and I don't currently have any personal pressures that would serve as pull factors. I do know people who have moved to jobs which are less well payed in part because longer, stable prospects hold an appeal, so I think there will always be some looking for a life job, but not many are available as there are push factors of cutbacks etc.
Define "not ambitious enough." If you're doing a job that you're good at, it's not particularly stressful and you're being paid enough to live reasonably comfortably, then perhaps you'd rather not expend vast amounts of time and energy on "career progression" and greasy pole climbing?
Yours truly has been working for the same firm for 17 years and counting, and has no intention of moving on unless forced. If I flogged myself half to death going into management (for which I wouldn't be suitable anyway) or schlepping round the country every few years trying to progress into slightly better paid roles each time, then what would I get out of it? Probably a house instead of a flat, followed by a coronary. A pointless waste of finite time and energy.
I agree (in fact I have recently stepped up the greasy pole a little, at least temporarily but we'll see), but I sometimes think our culture does not look kindly on people who are, well, content with moderate goals. Who might occasionally want an adventure or more money but don't feel they miss out if they don't and don't work very hard toward it. All those questions about where you see where yourself going in 5 years, how they can help you develop and progress, they are well meaning, but there can seem an undercurrent of expecting everyone wanting that. That it's wrong to not want it. That isn't intended, I know, it might be unfair, but sometimes it feels like I'd odd for not having that drive. (I am odd, but for different reasons).
I remember being struck by the thought watching Criminal on Netflix, where a junior detective talks about not being ambitious, and how you're not allowed to say that these days, and it rather stuck with me.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
Is it a bit like watching Victor Meldrew without bothering with a plot?
I think PB this mornijng is a bit like watching the subtitles, with the vision on the fritz!
Can somebody explain to me why young people should pay for the care of the elderly, can somebody explain that coherently
They can't mate, all they have is resorting to calling young people greedy or unpleasant for asking the old to pay their own way. The level of entitlement the generation above have is ridiculous.
They bought all the property, pulled up the ladder, leeched off young people for rent and now are leeching off us again to pay for their care.
Not a single person who supports this NI rise has been able to answer why a retired person with £80k in gross income will get £60.5k net (and receive ~£9k in benefits) while a working person on the same gross income will get £55k net and no benefits.
The whole system is stacked against us and I do fear that this will become the start of a brain drain from the UK as people decide they've had enough of being milked by the old who neglected to save for their old age.
I really do think you are way out by suggesting a retired person receives an £80k gross income nett £60.5, as these are figures I just cannot accept as anything other than for an exceptional few, and the vast majority of pensioners will struggle to see £20k pa, even much less
I would also take to task your attitude to the elderly many of whom suffer health issues consistent with ageing as quite unpleasant and to be honest rather surprising
There is an unpleasantness that has crept into this discussion, especially when the debate gets personalised.
@MaxPB stop being a dick. I, and many others, basically agree with what you’re saying, but the way you say it seriously undermines our argument.
I'm fed up of being polite, all it results in is being milked for tax by the selfish and thankless generation above.
Being impolite won't affect that result either though, it happens not because younger people do not object, but because of political calculation.
We've been polite until now and it hasn't helped, impolite could change that. I've had enough of doffing my cap to old people who got everything and then pulled up all the ladders.
I acxtually sympathise with that a lot. What happened about university fees and grants still upsets me veyr badly - how I benefited from that, first generation in my family etc., but today ...
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
Nah Max is right and this is exactly the point he was making. You make a point about this and you're immediately called unpleasant or rude.
Yet I see comments about young people being lazy, sitting indoors all day playing PlayStation, not working during the pandemic and it just gets a pass.
Bunch of hypocrites the lot
There is, however, one way I do call [edit] some young lazy, irresponsibvle and feckless - and that is in not using their vote.
A number of 'young' people on here whinging. They need to take responsibility, work a bit harder, try getting on in life and thus becoming more successful.
Like wot us old people have done.
How much in tuition fees did you pay when you went to uni? Or were you given a grant instead?
What multiple of earnings were you expected to pay for housing?
Did you have a purely contribution based pension scheme?
I have no objections whatsoever to people getting on in life. But don't pull the ladder up after yourself at every turn!
Lol Pal didn't go to university. In my time interest rates were so high I couldn't borrow more than 3.5 times earnings. I worked very hard for my lovely final salary pension. And I have a little DC one too.
All worked hard for. What I have achieved has been built on my own efforts.
So in your head people under 40 do what? Don't work hard? Get fucked.
Mate, you’ve been on an ageist wind up the last few days, seems like you’re getting some back and don’t like it.
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
I Never said that. I said it would play well in the Red Wall. It will. That is the Tory Party now. The free market is like some vivid dream four hours later. Aware that it happened. You can recall the emotions it stirred. But the details have been long since lost.
I'm not sure it will.
Do you really think housing wealth to be inherited is highest in the Red Wall?
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
But it does also skew the housing market further in favour of those who have rich parents. And that’s got to be cash rich, because they have to have the spare money available.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
But that is only applicable to families with some wealth. AKA Tories. Who are also pampered by the income tax and IHT rules which favour well off families in e.g. the SE with expensive houses.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
A point of historical interest is that in trhe old days moving between pension schemes was really deleterious in the private sector (though one could move between public sector schemes, etc., fairly easily without detriment). Which discouraged moves of jobs. I don't think this was liberalised till, what, 1990-2000?
I have to say, moving pensions does not seem to be as easy as it should be.
I've had a bit of a nightmare trying to move my pension from Aviva
It’s all very highly regulated these days and these companies are wary of the risk.
I am 55 and looking at my retirement options. It has taken capita a month to look into giving me a transfer value and they are still looking at it.
The pace is funereal.
That, and you have to bear in mind that the people doing the administration are probably paid peanuts, snowed under with work and struggling with antique computer systems.
I used to work in pensions admin about 20 years ago (with Aviva, as it so happens - I'm unsurprised that CHB is also having trouble) and suffered from all of those things in spades. It has probably got considerably worse since. Your valuation request is most likely stuck in somebody's in tray, behind about 82 others and working its way up the pile at a glacial pace.
The pension I have in the PPF I can get information on immediately in real time.
My pension adviser said they are taking about a month currently so drop them a reminder. Which I duly did. I hadn’t chased since they confirmed they’d received the request
Incidentally, just to add to ongoing discussions around SPOTY, the big sporting event this evening will be Emma Raducanu’s match in the US Open - and if she progresses much further I could see her picking up the SPOTY prize, though I think winning an actual slam will have to wait for the years to come, if at all.
In short, she may have great potential as a tennis player, but in terms of her PR operation she’s already arrived.
Yes, there could be something special happening there. I have a few quid on her to win this US Open at 100s and I'm not laying back yet. Women's tennis is in a period when a teenager could just burst through. We're not used to such a phenom being a Brit but there's no good reason why not.
Congratulations! Being under 40 I assume you won't actually work hard though. I mean that's what under 40s do apparently.
Something else worth mentioning, is that jobs for life don't really exist anymore. I worked with a few older folks who had been in the same job 20+ years, good pay rises, great pension etc. I've moved jobs three times and I'm not very old.
Now of course that comes with its own benefits, much bigger pay rises etc but it's a lot more stressful and difficult than it was even a few years ago. And this so I can afford to do things most people who are older could do quite easily.
And I am told I don't work hard, I am proud of what I do.
Yeah I completely agree, the last two times I've moved jobs both came with payrises that weren't available for people who stuck with the company. I can't imagine staying in a job for more than five years. Most of my friends would say more than three years.
Inertia is a powerful force. I'm not ambitious enough, I dislike disruption, and I don't currently have any personal pressures that would serve as pull factors. I do know people who have moved to jobs which are less well payed in part because longer, stable prospects hold an appeal, so I think there will always be some looking for a life job, but not many are available as there are push factors of cutbacks etc.
Define "not ambitious enough." If you're doing a job that you're good at, it's not particularly stressful and you're being paid enough to live reasonably comfortably, then perhaps you'd rather not expend vast amounts of time and energy on "career progression" and greasy pole climbing?
Yours truly has been working for the same firm for 17 years and counting, and has no intention of moving on unless forced. If I flogged myself half to death going into management (for which I wouldn't be suitable anyway) or schlepping round the country every few years trying to progress into slightly better paid roles each time, then what would I get out of it? Probably a house instead of a flat, followed by a coronary. A pointless waste of finite time and energy.
I agree (in fact I have recently stepped up the greasy pole a little, at least temporarily but we'll see), but I sometimes think our culture does not look kindly on people who are, well, content with moderate goals. Who might occasionally want an adventure or more money but don't feel they miss out if they don't and don't work very hard toward it. All those questions about where you see where yourself going in 5 years, how they can help you develop and progress, they are well meaning, but there can seem an undercurrent of expecting everyone wanting that. That it's wrong to not want it. That isn't intended, I know, it might be unfair, but sometimes it feels like I'd odd for not having that drive. (I am odd, but for different reasons).
I remember being struck by the thought watching Criminal on Netflix, where a junior detective talks about not being ambitious, and how you're not allowed to say that these days, and it rather stuck with me.
That's completely right. One of the things I find most difficult to negotiate at work is the pointless targets for improvement that they try to foist on us every year (and everybody gets them, including a colleague who is only a couple of years from retirement.) The notion that people who are employed in vital functions, and who not only don't particularly want to expand their horizons but who don't even need to do that for the greater good of the business, might be best left alone just to get on with the bloody job seems to be anathema. It's deeply irritating.
Moderation team seams happy to remove bad language but not do anything about an obvious troll who is just here to say stupid things and wind people up.
I will not respond to them any further
I agree with some of his points, not the way he makes them and not the implication the young are workshy. But he is right about some things for sure.
Hardly, in 2019 Boris won the biggest Tory election victory since Thatcher in 1987 and when Thatcher left the Tory Party certainly did not define itself against her
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
BiB: Which is absolutely inappropriate.
We should cut taxes and ensure anyone who works hard can get on the housing ladder. Not raise taxes and make the situation even worse.
Incidentally, just to add to ongoing discussions around SPOTY, the big sporting event this evening will be Emma Raducanu’s match in the US Open - and if she progresses much further I could see her picking up the SPOTY prize, though I think winning an actual slam will have to wait for the years to come, if at all.
In short, she may have great potential as a tennis player, but in terms of her PR operation she’s already arrived.
Yes, there could be something special happening there. I have a few quid on her to win this US Open at 100s and I'm not laying back yet. Women's tennis is in a period when a teenager could just burst through. We're not used to such a phenom being a Brit but there's no good reason why not.
Certainly better than backing her for SPOTY at similar odds.
From what I can see, it looks like R4 is the tricky one (probably Barty), but she could get to the SFs if she beats the Australian.
Hardly, in 2019 Boris won the biggest Tory election victory since Thatcher in 1987 and when Thatcher left the Tory Party certainly did not define itself against her
Boris won that election victory promising hope and aspiration for levelling up etc and not to raise taxes. Just like Thatcher.
He didn't win the election victory by stomping on those trying to work hard, lifting the ladder up even further.
Can somebody explain to me why young people should pay for the care of the elderly, can somebody explain that coherently
They can't mate, all they have is resorting to calling young people greedy or unpleasant for asking the old to pay their own way. The level of entitlement the generation above have is ridiculous.
They bought all the property, pulled up the ladder, leeched off young people for rent and now are leeching off us again to pay for their care.
Not a single person who supports this NI rise has been able to answer why a retired person with £80k in gross income will get £60.5k net (and receive ~£9k in benefits) while a working person on the same gross income will get £55k net and no benefits.
The whole system is stacked against us and I do fear that this will become the start of a brain drain from the UK as people decide they've had enough of being milked by the old who neglected to save for their old age.
I really do think you are way out by suggesting a retired person receives an £80k gross income nett £60.5, as these are figures I just cannot accept as anything other than for an exceptional few, and the vast majority of pensioners will struggle to see £20k pa, even much less
I would also take to task your attitude to the elderly many of whom suffer health issues consistent with ageing as quite unpleasant and to be honest rather surprising
There is an unpleasantness that has crept into this discussion, especially when the debate gets personalised.
@MaxPB stop being a dick. I, and many others, basically agree with what you’re saying, but the way you say it seriously undermines our argument.
I'm fed up of being polite, all it results in is being milked for tax by the selfish and thankless generation above.
Being impolite won't affect that result either though, it happens not because younger people do not object, but because of political calculation.
We've been polite until now and it hasn't helped, impolite could change that. I've had enough of doffing my cap to old people who got everything and then pulled up all the ladders.
I acxtually sympathise with that a lot. What happened about university fees and grants still upsets me veyr badly - how I benefited from that, first generation in my family etc., but today ...
In the days when today’s pensioners were potential students, only the cream of the crop got to go to Uni. Now that it’s a coin toss, the kids have to pay for the privilege. So I don’t think telling today’s 68 year olds how lucky they were not to pay tuition fees really works.
It’s like the football clubs that talent spot every other kid over the park, and invite them to train at one of their academies… then give the parents the bill for kit, and coaching. Too many go, and it’s pointless
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
BiB: Which is absolutely inappropriate.
We should cut taxes and ensure anyone who works hard can get on the housing ladder. Not raise taxes and make the situation even worse.
Even if you cut taxes to zero those on average incomes would still not be able to afford to buy in London and the South East as they could north of Watford.
Inheritance and parental gifts are the only way most can afford to get a depost before their late 40s in London and the Home Counties
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
But it does also skew the housing market further in favour of those who have rich parents. And that’s got to be cash rich, because they have to have the spare money available.
Basically gradual regression towards the 18th century - a stratified economy of paupers and rentiers, featuring a gentry class in which any lack of talent and ability on the part of the younger generation does little to interfere with the perpetuation of inherited wealth.
If you are earning £100K a year in London and struggling to buy a house - which you would be with house prices now - then the system is broken. I don't care how anti London you are.
Thirty years ago you could have worked about 50% less hard and been able to afford a house in a few months, there is no way anyone sane can justify the system as it is
This is where I have less sympathy with youngsters. Vote with your feet. I work in London (pre-COVID anyway), but only because I can live with my parents. Yet the capital seems to suck in youngsters from the rest of the country. Why? Because youngsters don’t tend to be all that rational. They want to have a fun and London is like a big playground.
Because it's where all the jobs are.
Software Engineering is by far and away really only good in London, as an example.
Long term absolutely, we need to get people living elsewhere. But the Tory strategy is level down London, not level up the country
BiB - that’s obviously not true.
That's where a lot of the jobs are, then.
I had a look as I was changing jobs just recently and the offerings outside of London are just horrendous compared to what you get here.
And all my friends are here, I'm drawn in - so I guess I do agree with your general point but I think people should be able to live wherever they want to be honest
I’d like to have lived in N5 so that I could walk to the Arsenal. Just because I’d like to have done that ten years ago doesn’t give me the right to be able to do so.
There isn't much of London you could live in now without some form of inheritance for a deposit.
Again I can see what you're saying but I stand by what I said, the system is broken
I’m generally in favour of tax second homes and BTLs, but London is ultimately very popular. Who has the right to live where they want? We can’t all live their, so how do you decide who is worthy of living in these places?
I think this is generally a difference between the left and the right. The right tend to accept that there are trade-offs in life (perhaps too accepting sometimes), whilst the left believe in entitlement.
That's such a load of cobblers. The biggest form of entitlement is inheritance tax, and the right are constantly campaigning to abolish that!
I'm thinking more in terms of the people rather than the politicians. So to take inheritance as an example, I accept that it's a trade-off. If the government doesn't tax inheritance then they have to tax elsewhere.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
Tax inheritance as income. And reduce income tax so it’s revenue neutral.
That would be my solution.
That was one of the policies I liked from McDonnell. Abolish IHT, instead tax legacies as income to the recipient per their personal tax situation. So a poor person receiving a legacy pays less tax on it than a rich one. It works on every level. Great reform.
I think a malign effect of inheritance is that it comes all at once and likely at the wrong time.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
Not necessarily, plenty of Home Counties parents of 20 and 30 year olds give them gifts well before they get a full inheritance for a deposit to buy a property.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
But that is only applicable to families with some wealth. AKA Tories. Who are also pampered by the income tax and IHT rules which favour well off families in e.g. the SE with expensive houses.
Even in London the average home now costs £675,274 and in the South East £461,020 and the East of England £385,782 so even the average home owning parent there has wealth above the IHT threshold of £325,000
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
I Never said that. I said it would play well in the Red Wall. It will. That is the Tory Party now. The free market is like some vivid dream four hours later. Aware that it happened. You can recall the emotions it stirred. But the details have been long since lost.
I'm not sure it will.
Do you really think housing wealth to be inherited is highest in the Red Wall?
No. But looking after our own. Especially the old dears who've worked hard all their lives, will. If a few pampered, genderfluid, avocado munching snowflakes in that there London have to pay a bit more, then quite right too! Only fair. They don't have proper jobs anyway. They are always on their computer thingies.
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
Not just that, I think. Above a certain threshold, doesn't the rate of NI fall a lot?
The more you poke at the entrails of this, the worse it gets.
But I totally get the politics. And Red Wall was always about getting retired homeowners in the north to vote the same way as retired homeowners in the south. Working age people are electorally expendible.
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
I Never said that. I said it would play well in the Red Wall. It will. That is the Tory Party now. The free market is like some vivid dream four hours later. Aware that it happened. You can recall the emotions it stirred. But the details have been long since lost.
I'm not sure it will.
Do you really think housing wealth to be inherited is highest in the Red Wall?
No. But looking after our own. Especially the old dears who've worked hard all their lives, will. If a few pampered, genderfluid, avocado munching snowflakes in that there London have to pay a bit more, then quite right too! Only fair. They don't have proper jobs anyway. They are always on their computer thingies.
Pray for those trapped in the £100-125k bracket 🙏🏻
Hardly, in 2019 Boris won the biggest Tory election victory since Thatcher in 1987 and when Thatcher left the Tory Party certainly did not define itself against her
Boris won that election victory promising hope and aspiration for levelling up etc and not to raise taxes. Just like Thatcher.
He didn't win the election victory by stomping on those trying to work hard, lifting the ladder up even further.
Boris has limited the NI rise to 1%, Sunak and Javid wanted a 2% rise.
Be fascinating if this policy even goes ahead, why do I get the sense this is yet again Government by focus group
I'm just waiting for the first MPs to break ranks and ask 'How will this play in the Red Wall?' Only they matter of course.
It'll play well in the Red Wall. Older. Fewer working as a percentage. Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
No, the anger here seems to be from people who work on varying levels of earnings.
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
Not just that, I think. Above a certain threshold, doesn't the rate of NI fall a lot?
The more you poke at the entrails of this, the worse it gets.
But I totally get the politics. And Red Wall was always about getting retired homeowners in the north to vote the same way as retired homeowners in the south. Working age people are electorally expendible.
Can somebody explain to me why young people should pay for the care of the elderly, can somebody explain that coherently
They can't mate, all they have is resorting to calling young people greedy or unpleasant for asking the old to pay their own way. The level of entitlement the generation above have is ridiculous.
They bought all the property, pulled up the ladder, leeched off young people for rent and now are leeching off us again to pay for their care.
Not a single person who supports this NI rise has been able to answer why a retired person with £80k in gross income will get £60.5k net (and receive ~£9k in benefits) while a working person on the same gross income will get £55k net and no benefits.
The whole system is stacked against us and I do fear that this will become the start of a brain drain from the UK as people decide they've had enough of being milked by the old who neglected to save for their old age.
I really do think you are way out by suggesting a retired person receives an £80k gross income nett £60.5, as these are figures I just cannot accept as anything other than for an exceptional few, and the vast majority of pensioners will struggle to see £20k pa, even much less
I would also take to task your attitude to the elderly many of whom suffer health issues consistent with ageing as quite unpleasant and to be honest rather surprising
There is an unpleasantness that has crept into this discussion, especially when the debate gets personalised.
@MaxPB stop being a dick. I, and many others, basically agree with what you’re saying, but the way you say it seriously undermines our argument.
I'm fed up of being polite, all it results in is being milked for tax by the selfish and thankless generation above.
Being impolite won't affect that result either though, it happens not because younger people do not object, but because of political calculation.
We've been polite until now and it hasn't helped, impolite could change that. I've had enough of doffing my cap to old people who got everything and then pulled up all the ladders.
I acxtually sympathise with that a lot. What happened about university fees and grants still upsets me veyr badly - how I benefited from that, first generation in my family etc., but today ...
In the days when today’s pensioners were potential students, only the cream of the crop got to go to Uni. Now that it’s a coin toss, the kids have to pay for the privilege. So I don’t think telling today’s 68 year olds how lucky they were not to pay tuition fees really works.
It’s like the football clubs that talent spot every other kid over the park, and invite them to train at one of their academies… then give the parents the bill for kit, and coaching. Too many go, and it’s pointless
We're running into a nomenclatorial issue; I went in the days when unis were unis, Polys were Polys, and FECs were FECs. But even then quite a few children got to uni.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
To be fair, Farage's show is actually quite good.
Farage's great strength is that he comes across as a human being. Not an especially nice human being, but human nevertheless.
Incidentally, just to add to ongoing discussions around SPOTY, the big sporting event this evening will be Emma Raducanu’s match in the US Open - and if she progresses much further I could see her picking up the SPOTY prize, though I think winning an actual slam will have to wait for the years to come, if at all.
In short, she may have great potential as a tennis player, but in terms of her PR operation she’s already arrived.
I think she'd need to reach the final (win or lose) to have a decent shot at SPotY, but good shout on spotting this possibility before the market has really shifted.
Did we miss the news that Andrew Neil is off from GBTV?
Seems like he was used by the owners to get an OFCOM license and now that they’re up and running they can pursue the alt-right digital meme generator they always wanted to.
I used to love This Week, but he got carried away towards the end with his opening monologues. A bit long of himself. It got a bit too silly overall as well.
GB News won’t suffer any of that nonsense - only hard hitting news and opinion from serious heavyweights
Christopher Biggins (rumoured to post on here as Big G) says he voted for Brexit, then says he has “lots of friends with businesses who have suffered badly”.
You are just ridiculous and question my integrity
I voted remain and am happy to accept the vote of the referendum
I watched GB news for 48 hours and have not watched it since and could not care less about Andrew Neil
Furthermore , my membership of the conservative party has now lapsed and I am a free political spirit
48 hrs solid would be enough to put anyone off.
And in my case it was not 48 hours solid
Did you catch any of Nigel Farage's "Talking Pints"? That's the flagship show. He sits there swigging steadily from a foaming glass of beer and has a reactionary natter about things with a suitably high-blooded guest (also supping ale). The conversational vibe is kind of peeved but humorous, if you can imagine this, and the idea is that you the viewer feel you've wondered into a traditional old pub, got yourself a drink and a seat, and are eavesdropping on a pair of interesting geezers who are saying lots of stuff that has you chuckling and nodding in agreement. It's been doing ok in the ratings and one can understand why. Once you've got it on, even if by accident, which it will be for most, it's a devil of a task to turn it off.
To be fair, Farage's show is actually quite good.
It's not my pint of old wallop but it is a cut above the rest of GB News. Farage is a good and very natural communicator. You can tell he's only there for the beer (as in the money) though. Seems to be subtly taking the piss to my eye.
Clarification Note: All of this, me talking at length about this show, is based on watching the grand total of 20 minutes of one episode. It was the one where his guest was ex-soldier Rusty Firkin (who I hadn't heard of). A few days later he had the darts legend Bobby George on, and I'd bookmarked that, but when it came to it there was a clash with something else and I opted for the something else.
Incidentally, just to add to ongoing discussions around SPOTY, the big sporting event this evening will be Emma Raducanu’s match in the US Open - and if she progresses much further I could see her picking up the SPOTY prize, though I think winning an actual slam will have to wait for the years to come, if at all.
In short, she may have great potential as a tennis player, but in terms of her PR operation she’s already arrived.
Yes, there could be something special happening there. I have a few quid on her to win this US Open at 100s and I'm not laying back yet. Women's tennis is in a period when a teenager could just burst through. We're not used to such a phenom being a Brit but there's no good reason why not.
Good shout. If she wins (or maybe an e/w bet on her does) then your return is going to be at least as good as betting on her to win SPotY, which is another step beyond that.
Hardly, in 2019 Boris won the biggest Tory election victory since Thatcher in 1987 and when Thatcher left the Tory Party certainly did not define itself against her
Boris won that election victory promising hope and aspiration for levelling up etc and not to raise taxes. Just like Thatcher.
He didn't win the election victory by stomping on those trying to work hard, lifting the ladder up even further.
What is it some sage said about Johnson? "There are two types of people, those who realise that he's lied to them, and those who haven't figured it out yet." Something like that anyway.
Comments
I agree everyone cannot have everything they want, but nor is the status quo particularly fair or optimal in deciding who gets what.
Now time for you to go away.
The future Tory party will define itself against him.
@HYUFD take note.
I actually wouldn't mind if more tax was raised via death duties. The tricky thing is that some people go to great lengths to avoid them.
That would be my solution.
I'm off for a while, don't miss me too much y'all!
See you tomorrow.
This social care proposal is forging some strange alliances.
I will not respond to them any further
Also a young person thing - marriage, mortgages, kids all increasing employment inertia and prizing job security over risk taking.
There is a reason to hate taxing workers to give unpaid for, unearned new welfare to pensioners.
Much of the anger on here seems to be from folk on six figures.
600 people sharing £20bn per year that they have not personally earned is an abomination in our society. It of course makes them very rich, but not all happy or fulfilled.
I am 55 and looking at my retirement options. It has taken capita a month to look into giving me a transfer value and they are still looking at it.
The pace is funereal.
Yours truly has been working for the same firm for 17 years and counting, and has no intention of moving on unless forced. If I flogged myself half to death going into management (for which I wouldn't be suitable anyway) or schlepping round the country every few years trying to progress into slightly better paid roles each time, then what would I get out of it? Probably a house instead of a flat, followed by a coronary. A pointless waste of finite time and energy.
I have kept up the exercise, dropped the idea of learning a new language.
For the record, I've always been a) and c), but not b).
Points up an intergenerational issue too. The premise was he was newly retired from being a security guard. Without a mortgage in a nice street. Can anyone imagine that at such an age nowadays?
My parents retired aged 52 and 51 after fairly modest earning careers.
Glad to see you around again, hope you are well
NI doesn't kick in at £100k, you're out by a factor of ten. It kicks in at below £10,000.
A thousand a year during their working lives would be better for people than a huge lump when they're old and their very old parents die.
I used to work in pensions admin about 20 years ago (with Aviva, as it so happens - I'm unsurprised that CHB is also having trouble) and suffered from all of those things in spades. It has probably got considerably worse since. Your valuation request is most likely stuck in somebody's in tray, behind about 82 others and working its way up the pile at a glacial pace.
Presentation a bit lacking, though
Aware that it happened. You can recall the emotions it stirred. But the details have been long since lost.
I remember being struck by the thought watching Criminal on Netflix, where a junior detective talks about not being ambitious, and how you're not allowed to say that these days, and it rather stuck with me.
For those on average incomes in London and the South East it is often the only way then can get on the housing ladder and buy their first property
Do you really think housing wealth to be inherited is highest in the Red Wall?
My pension adviser said they are taking about a month currently so drop them a reminder. Which I duly did. I hadn’t chased since they confirmed they’d received the request
We should cut taxes and ensure anyone who works hard can get on the housing ladder. Not raise taxes and make the situation even worse.
From what I can see, it looks like R4 is the tricky one (probably Barty), but she could get to the SFs if she beats the Australian.
He didn't win the election victory by stomping on those trying to work hard, lifting the ladder up even further.
It’s like the football clubs that talent spot every other kid over the park, and invite them to train at one of their academies… then give the parents the bill for kit, and coaching. Too many go, and it’s pointless
Inheritance and parental gifts are the only way most can afford to get a depost before their late 40s in London and the Home Counties
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-London.html
If a few pampered, genderfluid, avocado munching snowflakes in that there London have to pay a bit more, then quite right too! Only fair. They don't have proper jobs anyway. They are always on their computer thingies.
The more you poke at the entrails of this, the worse it gets.
But I totally get the politics. And Red Wall was always about getting retired homeowners in the north to vote the same way as retired homeowners in the south. Working age people are electorally expendible.
@/?!." It's just a matter of time.
Sunak may also freeze the pensions triple lock
Clarification Note: All of this, me talking at length about this show, is based on watching the grand total of 20 minutes of one episode. It was the one where his guest was ex-soldier Rusty Firkin (who I hadn't heard of). A few days later he had the darts legend Bobby George on, and I'd bookmarked that, but when it came to it there was a clash with something else and I opted for the something else.