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Cuomos and goings – politicalbetting.com

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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    No you muppet, GB is a single country.

    It wouldn't be if Scots weren't too frit to leave the country in 2014. But they were.
    Baby Huey joins the fray , Britnat wimp of the year winner. You thick stupid moronic twattish dumb ass, how do you ever extract yourself from Bozo's butt long enough to print the drivel you put on here.
    Jessie boy of the century does not come into it , get back to knitting and brown nosing and don't try to play with big boys. You and Dugless would make a right pair of fannies.
    Can someone show me a recent post where this windbag hasn’t ad hominem insulted someone?
    Lazy git, go read the posts yourself, you have perfectly proved my point. You come on write some absolute bollox on Scotland , then you admit you have not read posts and need someone to explain to you what the topic is, get a life.
    I’ve never ever posted anything about Scotland’s politics other than a single reference to a recent opinion poll and a couple of questions. I deliberately refrain from doing so. So you have proved my point. You don’t read. You just insult. You should not be here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021
    The most ridiculous funding decision for next cycle is cutting swimming funding. The potential for medals is enormous, there are just so many events in the swimming programme. So potential bang for your buck is huge. And we saw it this time around Team GB were in the mix for so many of those, making a large number of finals.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    reciprocal ?

    Where’s the level of bile and sheer hatred from the anti nats to compare to that you get from Malcolm ?

    Don’t make out this is two sides equally at fault here.
    Another one that does not read the posts
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,022
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting to work out which country has done WORST at these Olympics, taking into account gdp, gdp per capita, and population.

    I think it might be Mexico. Vast population: 127m. Medium income with some high income areas

    FOUR BRONZE MEDALS

    Is wondering about that sort of thing what overdoing the chilli does for you? Personally I try to look for people's successes....... bright side and all that.
    Congrats to Fiji; two rugby sevens medals. Maybe the women will win gold next time.

    (Edit; poor proof-reading before posting!)
    It is not enough for BritScotnats to succeed. Others must fail.
    The problem is, that still works.

    No question now, as to what was melting and changing. They looked from pig to man, and man to pig, and pig to man again: but already it was impossible to tell which was which.
    Careful, you’ll have the ‘editing someone’s post is a DISGRACE’ Taliban after you. Shame it resulted in one of the most clichéd memes going.
    What, that rabid Nats are ultimately all the same? That's a fact, not a cliche.
    BritNats are the most obnoxious creeps on here.
    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.
    You obviously never read your own posts, if TUD has given up it is down to the cretinous Britnat's on here who constantly denigrate Scotland yet have romantic views of the Tories. Ignorance breeds contempt and given you think you are so intelligent , put that in your pipe smoke it and contemplate a bit. You give yourself away with your last sentence, your colonialism shines through in your overbearing smugness that it is England that will kick us out and that we are just prisoners to be dealt with as you wish.
    You should think about the posting on here , you may learn a few things, we certainly have.
    Malc - a gentle reminder that I am not English.
    He doesn’t do facts. I’m not a Tory but he accused me of being one.

    He just seems to live in a little world of seething resentment. Sadly this forum is his outlet.
    I am well aware and it does not mean you are not a BritNat,
    Again. You’re wrong. You just paint everyone you disagree with as the same and do yourself no good.

    I’d be quite happy for Scotland to be a part of the union or separate and independent.
  • DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
    The other question I'd like to know is exactly what uses this oil would be suitable for. I'm assuming it's petrol, but it might be lubricants? Because we will continue to need those.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
    I used to want to become a Scotch expert but it was too expensive.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    I think Malc's just having a bad day. Time of the month or something.
    OKC , Au contraire , been a great weekend , I am having a great day, relaxing morning and then down to Troon Marina for a lovely lunch later. Just have to make up my mind what I shall have.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,022
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    More than that I’m anti-Union. The Union of 1707 doesn’t work anymore. I think the source of @malcolmg ‘s animus is my nationality. English equals Britnat. He can’t be arsed to read or understand.
    I don’t know whether he personally is anti English rather than anti union but there is an element in Scottish nationalism, same with welsh nationalism, which is thinly disguised anti English prejudice.
    Have you actually come across thinly disguised anti-English prejudice among Welsh Nationalists?

    I'm amazed. In my experience as a former Plaid activist it's usually absolutely transparent.

    People who didn't know me used to direct it at me (because I speak English without a Welsh accent) until I floored them by replying in Welsh. The looks on their faces were brilliant...
    Ha ha, brilliant

    I’m in northern England. I can only,say what I have seen online. I don’t think people are so blatant.

    It’s ‘don’t move to abersoch as we want locals to get homes here’ but it really is f*ck off Englishmen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
    I used to want to become a Scotch expert but it was too expensive.
    Agreed. Much better to be an expert in awesome puns and dry humour. It doesn't cost anything and makes you a rye expert.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    No you muppet, GB is a single country.

    It wouldn't be if Scots weren't too frit to leave the country in 2014. But they were.
    Baby Huey joins the fray , Britnat wimp of the year winner. You thick stupid moronic twattish dumb ass, how do you ever extract yourself from Bozo's butt long enough to print the drivel you put on here.
    Jessie boy of the century does not come into it , get back to knitting and brown nosing and don't try to play with big boys. You and Dugless would make a right pair of fannies.
    Can someone show me a recent post where this windbag hasn’t ad hominem insulted someone?
    Lazy git, go read the posts yourself, you have perfectly proved my point. You come on write some absolute bollox on Scotland , then you admit you have not read posts and need someone to explain to you what the topic is, get a life.
    I don’t post about Scotland. I read all of your posts. They’re all as childish as each other. Ad hominem after ad hominem.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,022
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    reciprocal ?

    Where’s the level of bile and sheer hatred from the anti nats to compare to that you get from Malcolm ?

    Don’t make out this is two sides equally at fault here.
    Another one that does not read the posts
    Yeah, you’re the victim, lol
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,575
    Has there been a particularly bad poll for the SNP or something?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,768
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    reciprocal ?

    Where’s the level of bile and sheer hatred from the anti nats to compare to that you get from Malcolm ?

    Don’t make out this is two sides equally at fault here.
    Yeah, the 'anti nats' are an example to us all.
    A quick flick through my memory banks brings up cunty, wankstain, dickstain, prick, paedo, Nazi among others directed at me. I think that's fine but pious hypocrites going on about nasty nats can girfut.

    Apols to any maiden aunts looking in, but the mods didn't see fit to..er..moderate, so I don't see why I should.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,226
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    No you muppet, GB is a single country.

    It wouldn't be if Scots weren't too frit to leave the country in 2014. But they were.
    Baby Huey joins the fray , Britnat wimp of the year winner. You thick stupid moronic twattish dumb ass, how do you ever extract yourself from Bozo's butt long enough to print the drivel you put on here.
    Jessie boy of the century does not come into it , get back to knitting and brown nosing and don't try to play with big boys. You and Dugless would make a right pair of fannies.
    PS : USA ones at that
    Bravo! That's what a polemic SHOULD look like

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    I think Malc's just having a bad day. Time of the month or something.
    OKC , Au contraire , been a great weekend , I am having a great day, relaxing morning and then down to Troon Marina for a lovely lunch later. Just have to make up my mind what I shall have.
    Mrs G making good progress then. Ill's resolving/resolved?
  • TresTres Posts: 671
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
    The whole schtick about pineapple on pizza is far far worse.
  • BBC News - Part of 'Banksy' artwork in Lowestoft removed over flood fears
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-58136413

    Great quote in this article from a Banksy academic expert....well I am pretty sure they are him or are very good fakes.... thanks for that, I hope you don't also authenticate any other art works!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    Tres said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
    The whole schtick about pineapple on pizza is far far worse.
    Well, pineapple on pizza is far far worse.

    Oh, sorry, is that not what you meant?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,768
    edited August 2021
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    Every time someone posts something about Scotland you mouth off about “Scotch Experts” which has become the most tired meme on here, even without actually quite becoming one.
    You whining about 'Scotch experts' has certainly got very old.
  • TresTres Posts: 671
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    It's not implying they are drunks, it's implying they know sweet fa about Scottish politics.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    RobD said:

    Has there been a particularly bad poll for the SNP or something?

    My fault. Completely lost my rag at yet another gratuitous insult from Malc. I’ll say this for Leon/Sean, he can be an offensive arse but at least his posts are readable. The Dickson/Malc axis almost drives me to Unionism.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,821
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    That's a rant almost worthy of the great man himself.
    Fire with fire?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    edited August 2021

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    reciprocal ?

    Where’s the level of bile and sheer hatred from the anti nats to compare to that you get from Malcolm ?

    Don’t make out this is two sides equally at fault here.
    Yeah, the 'anti nats' are an example to us all.
    A quick flick through my memory banks brings up cunty, wankstain, dickstain, prick, paedo, Nazi among others directed at me. I think that's fine but pious hypocrites going on about nasty nats can girfut.

    Apols to any maiden aunts looking in, but the mods didn't see fit to..er..moderate, so I don't see why I should.
    I’ve had all of those just from Malc. And I’m not even a Unionist.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,768
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
  • ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Interesting to work out which country has done WORST at these Olympics, taking into account gdp, gdp per capita, and population.

    I think it might be Mexico. Vast population: 127m. Medium income with some high income areas

    FOUR BRONZE MEDALS

    Is wondering about that sort of thing what overdoing the chilli does for you? Personally I try to look for people's successes....... bright side and all that.
    Congrats to Fiji; two rugby sevens medals. Maybe the women will win gold next time.

    (Edit; poor proof-reading before posting!)
    It is not enough for BritScotnats to succeed. Others must fail.
    The problem is, that still works.

    No question now, as to what was melting and changing. They looked from pig to man, and man to pig, and pig to man again: but already it was impossible to tell which was which.
    Careful, you’ll have the ‘editing someone’s post is a DISGRACE’ Taliban after you. Shame it resulted in one of the most clichéd memes going.
    What, that rabid Nats are ultimately all the same? That's a fact, not a cliche.
    BritNats are the most obnoxious creeps on here.
    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.
    Really well put and to be honest the rants by some of the aforementioned have become so tedious and just do not represent the generosity of spirit evident of the Scots and paint an ugly picture of the one thing my late Scots father in law detested and rejected and that was nationalism
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    More than that I’m anti-Union. The Union of 1707 doesn’t work anymore. I think the source of @malcolmg ‘s animus is my nationality. English equals Britnat. He can’t be arsed to read or understand.
    I don’t know whether he personally is anti English rather than anti union but there is an element in Scottish nationalism, same with welsh nationalism, which is thinly disguised anti English prejudice.
    Have you actually come across thinly disguised anti-English prejudice among Welsh Nationalists?

    I'm amazed. In my experience as a former Plaid activist it's usually absolutely transparent.

    People who didn't know me used to direct it at me (because I speak English without a Welsh accent) until I floored them by replying in Welsh. The looks on their faces were brilliant...
    Ha ha, brilliant

    I’m in northern England. I can only,say what I have seen online. I don’t think people are so blatant.

    It’s ‘don’t move to abersoch as we want locals to get homes here’ but it really is f*ck off Englishmen.
    To be fair, walk round Abersoch out of season and it's like a ghost town. And once, there, I had a similar experience to ydoethur; someone in a shop remarked to me that it was 'nice to hear English spoken' as the two previous customers had spoken Welsh. I pointed out that she was the 'incomer', not them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
    I agree with that BigG... but 'not commissioning a new oilfield' is not the same as 'stopping all oil production now'.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,575

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
    I agree with that BigG... but 'not commissioning a new oilfield' is not the same as 'stopping all oil production now'.
    Better to produce it here than in the middle east.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,226
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    Ever thought about copywriting?
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,821

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    Spot on - please make them stop someone - it's destroying the site.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,146

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021
    One thing to note about the failure of rowing, due to covid they had virtually no competitive action for 18 months and disrupted training. We probably shouldn't then be surprised NZ did really well.

    In comparison, swimming had the ISL (International Swimming League) still going during the pandemic.

    And apparently the bike riders, what they did was get all those in the U23 elite programme to race the Olympians in mocks of the events they were to be competing in. However it is possible to do this when you only need 6 riders say for the keirin, compared to rowing the 8s, you need 5-8 teams of 8, which isn't possible if you want all to be elite level.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,821

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    I think Malc's just having a bad day. Time of the month or something.
    Aha - he's transitioning into Maisie C. Explains mucho!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,302

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Look at the team that won gold in the eventing three pretty working class people and a middle class one out of the four. Even Charlotte Dujardin in dressage is state school educated and pretty normal, not what people like you would have us believe that it's a bunch of toffs that we should all doff our caps to as they ride past us on their horses.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    MrEd said:

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
    Isn't shooting in the modern pentathlon? Quite a few inner city young people seem to be interested in it.
  • TresTres Posts: 671

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 EXC w/@hzeffman

    Tory donor paid £100,000 for breakfast with Boris Johnson in "cash for access" scheme

    Mohamed Amersi is also owed a magic show by Penny Mordaunt (£15k)

    Now he's in spat with party, which won't say if they'll deliver or return the £
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dbe5051a-f78f-11eb-a52c-53a486091545?shareToken=bdded28636226e686efc56e044211996

    Another with Putin links. It is bizarre almost no-one seems to care about who is funding our politicians. They are not even bothering to hide it, with western politics so partisan there is no longer a need to do so.
    Our journalists are far more interested trying to smear black footballers than connecting the obvious dots about who is funding our right-wing rags and broadcasters.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,785
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead


    Boris can't decide if he wants to be the new Greta Thurnberg or the new Jeremy Clarkson. COP 26 is shaping up to be a fiasco for the Government
    > Mail On Sunday > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9872289/DAN-HODGES-Boris-decide-hes-Jeremy-Clarkson-Greta-Thunberg.html
    Vote Blue, Go Green may be laudable but as Cameron discovered in 2010 it doesn't deliver a Tory majority.

    The RedWall and indeed much of Scotland like Aberdeen and Shetland is much keener on coal and oil, so a balance has to be struck
    So alright to destroy the planet as long as we get a Tory majority?
    You can still transition gradually to renewables and nuclear without abandoning those who work in the oil industry
    You don't have to exactly abandon them, although that is a bit rich coming from the party who closed pits (not saying it was wrong, but it wasn't exactly done smoothly or compassionately).

    But this transitioning gradually? You mean like we have been doing, with every country making excuses for why something doesn't apply to them while the planet boils.

    Nero and Rome spring to mind.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    MrEd said:

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
    Isn't shooting in the modern pentathlon? Quite a few inner city young people seem to be interested in it.
    That's an unexpectedly edgy comment from you, OKC.

    You'll be suggesting that they sign up for the ROC as they're all on drugs next...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead


    Boris can't decide if he wants to be the new Greta Thurnberg or the new Jeremy Clarkson. COP 26 is shaping up to be a fiasco for the Government
    > Mail On Sunday > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9872289/DAN-HODGES-Boris-decide-hes-Jeremy-Clarkson-Greta-Thunberg.html
    Vote Blue, Go Green may be laudable but as Cameron discovered in 2010 it doesn't deliver a Tory majority.

    The RedWall and indeed much of Scotland like Aberdeen and Shetland is much keener on coal and oil, so a balance has to be struck
    So alright to destroy the planet as long as we get a Tory majority?
    You can still transition gradually to renewables and nuclear without abandoning those who work in the oil industry
    You don't have to exactly abandon them, although that is a bit rich coming from the party who closed pits (not saying it was wrong, but it wasn't exactly done smoothly or compassionately).

    But this transitioning gradually? You mean like we have been doing, with every country making excuses for why something doesn't apply to them while the planet boils.

    Nero and Rome spring to mind.
    I've always been annoyed with this description of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

    It's obvious he wasn't a fiddler, he was a lyre.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,785
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
    I agree with that BigG... but 'not commissioning a new oilfield' is not the same as 'stopping all oil production now'.
    Better to produce it here than in the middle east.
    Which will be the reason every country gives and we keep going down the same road to destruction.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
    Isn't shooting in the modern pentathlon? Quite a few inner city young people seem to be interested in it.
    That's an unexpectedly edgy comment from you, OKC.

    You'll be suggesting that they sign up for the ROC as they're all on drugs next...
    Merely commenting on transferable skills. After all, the riding events arose out of warfare, some of it class.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,036
    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,768
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021

    MrEd said:

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
    Isn't shooting in the modern pentathlon? Quite a few inner city young people seem to be interested in it.
    Modern pentathlon also includes stabbing and running away....if they swapped horse riding for riding BMXs, be perfect.
  • MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    Politics aside, achieving the same medal total as we did in London, after one of the nastier plagues in the world, in the heat and foreign-ness of Tokyo, is really quite something. Arguably better than Rio

    My, how times change:
    Leon said:


    pigeon said:

    I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

    I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.

    At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
    Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:

    image

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
    It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
    Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
    I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
    I think that is still very optimistic.

    A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...

    The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.

    Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
    Yes, I think we will tail off badly in this Olympics and end up with 40-45 medals. We will likely be beaten by Australia and probably 3rd or 4th in Europe behind Fake Russia and maybe Germany or Italy or both

    Maybe around 9th in the overall table at the end? Not ignoble, but quite a fall from Rio and London
    To be fair to @Leon , @Benpointer , his two statements are not necessarily contradictory. You could have feared for Team GB's performance and then been delighted when they surpassed expectations.

    Also, just to put out, 65 is a great total when we lost several of our Gold medal hopes (KJT, shooting, arguably the team show jumping) and several other medal hopes (eg Dinah Ashe-Smith) to injury plus had others hit by bad luck (Laura Kenny in the Omnium, Zhandel Hughes). While all teams have their injuries etc, I don't think any team was impacted so much by injuries and bad luck when it came to medal prospects.
    And Leon himself made the same point about his prediction being too pessimistic on the last thread.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Cf Eddie the Eagle.
  • DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    This week @Keir_Starmer said he opposed the Cambo oil field, west of Shetland

    @BorisJohnson said the contracts could not be torn up

    @NicolaSturgeon does not appear to have made up her mind:


    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1424271273534922753?s=20

    The tories are somewhere between stages 3 and 4 on the Climate Change Denial process.
    1. There's no climate change
    2. There's climate change but humans aren't causing it.
    3. There's climate change, humans are causing it but we can fix it with 𝙏𝙀𝘾𝙃𝙉𝙊𝙇𝙊𝙂𝙔
    4. We're all fucked.
    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead
    Its not just the Scottish oil industry. Grangemouth is going to run out of feedstock for its production unless new sources are developed. We have a significant number of jobs downstream from the oil production itself and they are at risk.
    Do you think we can just go on using oil forever?
    We cannot just stop producing oil and it will need a long period of adjustment

    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale
    I agree with that BigG... but 'not commissioning a new oilfield' is not the same as 'stopping all oil production now'.
    The production will take place in the middle east instead while 1,000 plus Scots jobs are lost

    Also Sturgeon is hiding in a closet to 'frit' to respond as it may upset her deal with the greens, and anyway it is only 1,000 plus Scottish jobs
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,785
    edited August 2021

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Cf Eddie the Eagle.
    Although Eddie provides endless laughs one thing that I was shocked by, and shouldn't have been if you think about it, he is an excellent skier.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,302
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    Ultimately we all know the reason. Independence is dead, they all know it too. 2014 was their chance and they bottled it. A rerun will see Scotland cling to the union again. Their bitterness comes from this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
    Especially if the Olympics is the absolute pinnacle of your sport, the event that basically you will be remembered / judged by.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 497

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,146

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is pissing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    Ultimately we all know the reason. Independence is dead, they all know it too. 2014 was their chance and they bottled it. A rerun will see Scotland cling to the union again. Their bitterness comes from this.
    I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence, although at the moment I've no insight into who would win a referendum. Certainly it would be close. Scotland looks to be a bitterly divided country, emphasis on the 'bitterly' as we're seeing on here.

    I wonder though whether it might simply be that it's not going to be possible to run a similar Leave campaign to last time? The Brexit campaign and its aftermath has effectively demolished all the claims that were made for it. Is anyone going to buy the currency union, customs union, shared sovereignty, no costs line after Brexit? Hard to believe.

    But equally, I don't think that was ever the deciding factor and I don't think it would be again. I think it was @DavidL who talked about how there was still a very strong emotional attachment to the Union in Scotland that he was a bit surprised by in 2014, even though the Better Together campaign was 'transactional' in its approach. Well, I can imagine that has been further weakened. So a campaign on the lines of 'England doesn't get us, we need to get out' could be a very effective one.

    But I have a nagging suspicion with those three the real reason is fury against the English for giving Johnson an unassailable majority.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Sorry to read that. Most new posters get a word or two of welcome at first. Don't know why it didn't happen with you, although sometimes the posts come thick and fast and an individual comment gets lost a page or so back.
    And we're by no means all middle-aged and white. I, for example, am old and pinkish round the edges!

    But you're right; it is a bit warm today, metaphorically.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    No you muppet, GB is a single country.

    It wouldn't be if Scots weren't too frit to leave the country in 2014. But they were.
    Baby Huey joins the fray , Britnat wimp of the year winner. You thick stupid moronic twattish dumb ass, how do you ever extract yourself from Bozo's butt long enough to print the drivel you put on here.
    Jessie boy of the century does not come into it , get back to knitting and brown nosing and don't try to play with big boys. You and Dugless would make a right pair of fannies.
    Can someone show me a recent post where this windbag hasn’t ad hominem insulted someone?
    Lazy git, go read the posts yourself, you have perfectly proved my point. You come on write some absolute bollox on Scotland , then you admit you have not read posts and need someone to explain to you what the topic is, get a life.
    I’ve never ever posted anything about Scotland’s politics other than a single reference to a recent opinion poll and a couple of questions. I deliberately refrain from doing so. So you have proved my point. You don’t read. You just insult. You should not be here.
    Oh well I better leave if you are in charge of deciding who is allowed to post. Post Decider General I salute you and your promotion. You can get that bunch removed from those panties now and stop scowling.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    Sorry if I raised the temperature on here, but as PB's probable only exponent of the Libertarian Municipalism espoused towards the end of his life by former anarchist Murray Bookchin, being described as any form of nationalist cuts to the core a little. Anyway, I sank to Malc's level, for which I apologise.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,146

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall.
    That is true re the bikes. I just think the risks of what someone like Australia do is too high. Yes, it worked this time but have a bad campaign and / or others up their game in your sports), and you can take a hammering.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,987
    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    How do you know we are all white, do you have the second sight. Be brave have a peppermint and try to last an hour or so with out the vapours, you will love it. By the way your medal is in the post with a bunch of flowers and a wordy citation stating how proud we are that you joined us, well me anyway.
  • malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    Hold on. There's been a new development. It is Scotland leading the way.

    On the last thread, @StuartDickson posted that Scotland has had an outstanding Olympics, with Scots competitors winning more than their share of medals.
    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/diversity-at-tokyo-2020-where-do-team-gb-medal-winners-come-from-12374757
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall.
    That is true re the bikes. I just think the risks of what someone like Australia do is too high. Yes, it worked this time but have a bad campaign and / or others up their game in your sports), and you can take a hammering.
    But it has been successfully for 20 years now.....and yet they are now changing it, with a stated aim of increased diversity....even if at the expense of medals.

    Yes others have upper their game in cycling and rowing. But events that marry skill / technique with physical attributes are Team GB best chances versus sports with low barrier to entry / highly genetically dependent or ones that have little to no pedigree in the UK.

    The level of basketball in the UK is so far behind, it is just a waste of time. We aren't going to produce 10-15 world class players anytime soon and even then, the USA put out a team lacking all the best players and still win easily.

    The British Basketball Ball League is basically watched by one man and his dog.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,713
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Starmer is ready to abandon the Scottish oil industry, Sturgeon is moving towards doing so too and only Boris is ready to give the oil field the go ahead


    Boris can't decide if he wants to be the new Greta Thurnberg or the new Jeremy Clarkson. COP 26 is shaping up to be a fiasco for the Government
    > Mail On Sunday > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9872289/DAN-HODGES-Boris-decide-hes-Jeremy-Clarkson-Greta-Thunberg.html
    Vote Blue, Go Green may be laudable but as Cameron discovered in 2010 it doesn't deliver a Tory majority.

    The RedWall and indeed much of Scotland like Aberdeen and Shetland is much keener on coal and oil, so a balance has to be struck
    So alright to destroy the planet as long as we get a Tory majority?
    You can still transition gradually to renewables and nuclear without abandoning those who work in the oil industry
    You don't have to exactly abandon them, although that is a bit rich coming from the party who closed pits (not saying it was wrong, but it wasn't exactly done smoothly or compassionately).

    But this transitioning gradually? You mean like we have been doing, with every country making excuses for why something doesn't apply to them while the planet boils.

    Nero and Rome spring to mind.
    43% of UK energy already comes from renewables compared to 38% from fossil fuels, well above the global average of 28% of energy from renewables

    https://www.offshorewind.biz/2021/03/25/renewable-energy-outperforms-fossil-fuels-in-uk/#:~:text=Renewables generated 43 per cent,onshore wind 11.2 per cent.
    https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2020/renewables
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 994
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    You absolute arse. No, I don’t and, in any event, there is only one team from GB, as you keep complaining. You are really as thick as mince aren’t you? An absolute joke of a poster. Swing on here, insult people, don’t bother to read their posts or take note of what they mean. You should take a long look at yourself you shower of a man.

    Bellend. Absolute bellend.
    You halfwitted cretinous turd of a person, I know as soon as you have posted it will be pompous tanktop Britnat windbaggery crap. Go and have aeronautical sexual intercourse with a rolling doughnut you wimpy little whiner.

    ie Go take a Flying F****
    This endless reciprocal slanging match between ScotNats and anti-ScotNats is very tedious, like seeing two gangs of drunks shouting in a bar. Most of us will worry about it when IndyRef2 comes round - in the meantime, give it a rest, eh?
    But @DougSeal isn't an anti-Scot Nat.

    That's one of the many things that's puzzling me about it.
    I think Malc's just having a bad day. Time of the month or something.
    OKC , Au contraire , been a great weekend , I am having a great day, relaxing morning and then down to Troon Marina for a lovely lunch later. Just have to make up my mind what I shall have.
    Tres has given you a suggestion for lunch - Pineapple Pizza!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
    None of my family will ever be qualified for basketball; 5' 8" is about the best we can manage but there's no reason why we can produce competitive surfers or volleyball players.
    And I wouldn't like to think that some sports 'just didn't get' funding.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    edited August 2021
    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    As I recall the accusations of trolling were due to a claim you made that the government was preparing for a further lockdown in October. Which you were not able to further elaborate.

    Coming hard on the heels of two other new posters, one who claimed BA were concealing the deaths of large numbers of their pilots from vaccines and another who claimed that Holocaust survivors compared lockdowns to the actions of the SA - despite being provided with clear evidence to the contrary - it's not actually that surprising your claim was treated with suspicion, especially when you were rather rude to a number of posters yourself (notably DougSeal) in defending it.

    I will say your posts since don't suggest you're a troll, although that was immediately what I and several others thought you might be at the time. But it perhaps wasn't the best opening you could have made.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,164



    Furthermore, even if we stopped all oil production now others in the world will continue to produce it and we are then at a self imposed disadvantage, while offers gain and climate change continues

    This has to be agreed on a world wide scale

    That's never going to happen. We'll all be dead waiting for that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,914

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    EU countries win all three medals in men’s handball. In Dickson’s brave new world would that be the EU A, B, and C teams or can we just have done with this nonsense of aggregating medals amongst groups of countries?

    Yet you are happy to do it for GB, more faces than the town clock.
    Hold on. There's been a new development. It is Scotland leading the way.

    On the last thread, @StuartDickson posted that Scotland has had an outstanding Olympics, with Scots competitors winning more than their share of medals.
    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/diversity-at-tokyo-2020-where-do-team-gb-medal-winners-come-from-12374757
    The Scots have indeed done incredibly well. Its something to be genuinely vicariously proud of, even as we sit on our sofas and do nothing but watch.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 994
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    Ultimately we all know the reason. Independence is dead, they all know it too. 2014 was their chance and they bottled it. A rerun will see Scotland cling to the union again. Their bitterness comes from this.
    Independence is dying from self inflicted wounds, sadly.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,518
    ydoethur said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
    It was on the arse. Inexcusable, but the horse will hardly have felt it.
  • TresTres Posts: 671

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall.
    That is true re the bikes. I just think the risks of what someone like Australia do is too high. Yes, it worked this time but have a bad campaign and / or others up their game in your sports), and you can take a hammering.
    But it has been successfully for 20 years now.....and yet they are now changing it, with a stated aim of increased diversity....even if at the expense of medals.

    Yes others have upper their game in cycling and rowing. But events that marry skill / technique with physical attributes are Team GB best chances versus sports with low barrier to entry / highly genetic dependent or ones that have little to no pedigree in the UK.
    Quite right too. The obsession with medals above all else has gotten ridiculous.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018
    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    I hope you stick around too. There are unfortunately some posters who can be rather obnoxious at times - we've all been on the receiving end at one time or another.

    There is, though, a wide range of topics debated and the chance to engage with the other point of view, often skillfully and convincingly argued.

    So do please persist!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 12,507
    Tres said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 EXC w/@hzeffman

    Tory donor paid £100,000 for breakfast with Boris Johnson in "cash for access" scheme

    Mohamed Amersi is also owed a magic show by Penny Mordaunt (£15k)

    Now he's in spat with party, which won't say if they'll deliver or return the £
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dbe5051a-f78f-11eb-a52c-53a486091545?shareToken=bdded28636226e686efc56e044211996

    Another with Putin links. It is bizarre almost no-one seems to care about who is funding our politicians. They are not even bothering to hide it, with western politics so partisan there is no longer a need to do so.
    Our journalists are far more interested trying to smear black footballers than connecting the obvious dots about who is funding our right-wing rags and broadcasters.
    I am not sure that is correct, at least with the print media. The stories have been reported in most of the broadsheets and pretty much every edition of Private Eye. It is the public and fellow politicians who are indifferent, particularly if the offenders are on "their" side.
  • ydoethur said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
    "Raisner herself punched the horse once above the back leg"
    https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/germanys-modern-pentathlon-coach-disqualified-after-punching-horse-2021-08-07/

    Punching a horse in the arse isn't going to hurt it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,829
    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Oh, I am sorry, a belated welcome to the site. We are normally pretty good at welcoming new voices.

    There does seem to be an unusual amount of bad temper around at the moment. I am not sure why. It may be that many traditional topics such as Brexit, Scottish independence, how crap Boris is, have been done to death and it is difficult to find anything new to say on them. Now that the end of the world by pandemic seems to have been deferred we will just have to wait for the next existential crisis. I hope you stick around for that.
    Absolutely - I didn't see you joining, but do stay. It's usually a forum where people of quite different opinions rub along amicably - it's why I like it. Welcome!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
    It was on the arse. Inexcusable, but the horse will hardly have felt it.
    I don't know a horse's arse from its face.

    That's embarrassing.

    Perhaps I should stand as Prime Minister?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,518
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    I've never interpreted Scotch expert as meaning drunk, I think it's just a joke about the solecism of not saying Scottish.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,164
    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).
    At the moment it's 25% entertaining insight, 25% lukewarm middle class agro, 25% utterly fucked out cliches (pineapple/pizza, Yes Minister YT clips) and 25% graphs from the human TED Talk.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,901
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    I've never interpreted Scotch expert as meaning drunk, I think it's just a joke about the solecism of not saying Scottish.
    It just got funnier every time it was repeated.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,914

    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Oh, I am sorry, a belated welcome to the site. We are normally pretty good at welcoming new voices.

    There does seem to be an unusual amount of bad temper around at the moment. I am not sure why. It may be that many traditional topics such as Brexit, Scottish independence, how crap Boris is, have been done to death and it is difficult to find anything new to say on them. Now that the end of the world by pandemic seems to have been deferred we will just have to wait for the next existential crisis. I hope you stick around for that.
    Maybe we should have some discussions on wokeness, BLM and trans issues to lower the temperature?
    Genuine LOL. Well done.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988
    edited August 2021
    Tres said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall.
    That is true re the bikes. I just think the risks of what someone like Australia do is too high. Yes, it worked this time but have a bad campaign and / or others up their game in your sports), and you can take a hammering.
    But it has been successfully for 20 years now.....and yet they are now changing it, with a stated aim of increased diversity....even if at the expense of medals.

    Yes others have upper their game in cycling and rowing. But events that marry skill / technique with physical attributes are Team GB best chances versus sports with low barrier to entry / highly genetic dependent or ones that have little to no pedigree in the UK.
    Quite right too. The obsession with medals above all else has gotten ridiculous.
    Sometimes one wonders what these people will do after the Olympics. There's a limit to the number of events at which they can be paid to compete, and we surely don't need that many commentators and coaches. And on the point, kin my limited experience, people who are naturally good at a sport don't often make the best coaches. To coach, one needs different skills from simply being good at the game; you have to understand why you were good, and how you got there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,483
    edited August 2021

    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Sorry to read that. Most new posters get a word or two of welcome at first. Don't know why it didn't happen with you, although sometimes the posts come thick and fast and an individual comment gets lost a page or so back.
    And we're by no means all middle-aged and white. I, for example, am old and pinkish round the edges!

    But you're right; it is a bit warm today, metaphorically.
    Morning ladies, gents, bots and whatever you prefer [edit]. I come in from a morning thinning out the bookcases for the charity shops and here we are. Anyway, dipping a toe in to see if it is safe to come in after the bizarre discussion yesterday which at one point posited assistance with prescription charges as a necessarily alternative option to obtaining OLympic medals (which I thought was funded from the Lottery anyway?) - and which, on the PBTories' own arguments, was an excellent and logical reason for joining the EU and merging into a single state.

    To help JJ change the topic: here's a nice story for @RochdalePioneers to enjoy (a Glaswegian accent is crucial to the story):

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/aug/06/experience-i-accidentally-bought-derelict-house
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018

    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Sorry to read that. Most new posters get a word or two of welcome at first. Don't know why it didn't happen with you, although sometimes the posts come thick and fast and an individual comment gets lost a page or so back.
    And we're by no means all middle-aged and white. I, for example, am old and pinkish round the edges!

    But you're right; it is a bit warm today, metaphorically.
    It's certainly not very warm, meteorologically!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,677
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    Olympics: my overall view is that GB did really well, much better than I expected!

    Top 4 and maintaining level of medals won compared with 2016 and 2012 is excellent.

    The future: let's transfer the money from public school rowing to street working class sports like BMX and skateboarding 😊

    ... and to those other street working class sports such as, er... modern pentathlon and horse riding?
    Why shouldn't we have working class kids excelling in those sports? We should be facilitating a levelling as much as possible
    Isn't shooting in the modern pentathlon? Quite a few inner city young people seem to be interested in it.
    That's an unexpectedly edgy comment from you, OKC.

    You'll be suggesting that they sign up for the ROC as they're all on drugs next...
    On that subject, breakfasting in the Olympics does sound rather Eighties? Will the medals be car bonnet badges 🤔
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,749
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).
    At the moment it's 25% entertaining insight, 25% lukewarm middle class agro, 25% utterly fucked out cliches (pineapple/pizza, Yes Minister YT clips) and 25% graphs from the human TED Talk.
    We're all suffering from CWS.*

    This can only be cured by them taking the field at Trent BRidge and Anderson taking 9-7.

    *Cricket withdrawal symptoms.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,236
    edited August 2021

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
    None of my family will ever be qualified for basketball; 5' 8" is about the best we can manage but there's no reason why we can produce competitive surfers or volleyball players.
    And I wouldn't like to think that some sports 'just didn't get' funding.
    Errhhh volleyball is also incredibly height dependent and there is no real level of participation or pedigree. Its like saying we could be good at baseball....

    Surfing, well for starters we don't have the conditions...long winters and the waves we get aren't really what you need to be good.

    And again..... this funding is for elite athletes to focus on their sport, its not about funding sport for people to have a go and get interested. That's a different pot of money.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 19,018

    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    Politics aside, achieving the same medal total as we did in London, after one of the nastier plagues in the world, in the heat and foreign-ness of Tokyo, is really quite something. Arguably better than Rio

    My, how times change:
    Leon said:


    pigeon said:

    I don't often agree with Leon, but last night I watched the 7:30pm episode of the BBC olympics with Kathy Grainger as guest. I remember her in 2012 being distraught at only winning a silver in her double sculls, only Gold is worth it she said then, and she duely achieved it in 2016. That was the attitude which won the day. Not just in rowing, but cycling as well. The first 20mins of the show was about Helen Glover and partner missing out on a bronze. I swear it was the worst rubbish I ever heard, excuses, weepy backstory and the rest. I really think the BBC has turned into a version of X Factor! Absolute rubbish, and worst of all, Grainger was part of this rubbish. We have turned into a country of British Plucky losers again.

    I think that's overdramatizing the situation. They made a particular fuss of Helen Glover because she came back after having kiddies, gave it a good go, and nearly came away with something. More generally, the reviews of the performance of the rowing squad have not been gushing, and questions have been asked.

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the contingents from some other disciplines are doing quite well. It's not exactly an unremitting tale of woe, or of vast numbers of 'if only there were a tin medal for fourth' regrets.

    At the end of this Games I anticipate that the British team will be some way short of its performance in Rio, and that there will be some tutting (especially if the track cyclists also win a lot less than in recent times,) but that's not the end of the world. If things improve again in Paris then all will be well; if they don't then people will start to grumble about why we're not spending some of that lottery money on children's hospitals or something instead.
    Team GB are still slightly ahead of where they were at the same stage last time:

    image

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57836709
    Though, Team GB isn't going to win many in athletics....I think they only have 2-3 realistic chances in individual events, which none are gold medal favourites. Could quite easily end up with just 1 individual medal and perhaps 1 relay.
    It was seven medals last time, with just two golds (thanks Mo Farah); I doubt we'll be far short of that this time.
    Where are the 7 coming from? Katarina Johnson-Thompson and Dina Asher Smith are the only two I can think of. Lots of events, no Team GB even got the qualifying time.
    I suspect it will be four or five. Jemma Reekie, one or two of the relay teams to add to your list. I could well be wrong - that's the beauty of live sport.
    I think that is still very optimistic.

    A thing to also consider in this debate. Swimming many events Team GB have finalists, sometimes 2 in the final, and so many where the swimmer is ranked top 3 in the world. The rowing while disappointing, but was there were i think 5 4ths places ...

    The athletics, in most events now Team GB don't even really have one competitive athelete who is top 3-4-5 in the world. And many don't even have a single competitor who could make the qualifying mark.

    Difficult to win medals if you have a team where most of the competitors don't even have a shot at it.
    Yes, I think we will tail off badly in this Olympics and end up with 40-45 medals. We will likely be beaten by Australia and probably 3rd or 4th in Europe behind Fake Russia and maybe Germany or Italy or both

    Maybe around 9th in the overall table at the end? Not ignoble, but quite a fall from Rio and London
    To be fair to @Leon , @Benpointer , his two statements are not necessarily contradictory. You could have feared for Team GB's performance and then been delighted when they surpassed expectations.

    Also, just to put out, 65 is a great total when we lost several of our Gold medal hopes (KJT, shooting, arguably the team show jumping) and several other medal hopes (eg Dinah Ashe-Smith) to injury plus had others hit by bad luck (Laura Kenny in the Omnium, Zhandel Hughes). While all teams have their injuries etc, I don't think any team was impacted so much by injuries and bad luck when it came to medal prospects.
    And Leon himself made the same point about his prediction being too pessimistic on the last thread.
    Missed that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,302

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
    None of my family will ever be qualified for basketball; 5' 8" is about the best we can manage but there's no reason why we can produce competitive surfers or volleyball players.
    And I wouldn't like to think that some sports 'just didn't get' funding.
    Producing a winning basketball team needs huge, huge infrastructure. The nations that do well actually have basketball leagues that feed players into the NBA. The UK doesn't have that.

    The funding formula must include cost per likely medal. In something like BMX which is a newly funded sport the barrier is very low and the likelihood to medal is still pretty reasonable. For basketball you'd need a squad of players, club level infrastructure for players to get experience, for those clubs to be sustainable by audience/TV revenue, players to be developed and go and get experience on the NBA at the highest level and for them to then want to play for Team GB. It's a gigantic money black hole and we're up against the US, France, Spain and loads of Eastern European countries that really take basketball quote seriously.

    Funding sports like basketball at an elite level is a waste of everyone's time and money because we're never going to win anything and without winning how does the next generation get inspired.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,768
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hate to break it to you Malc, but they really aren't. You, TUD and Stuart have gone galumphing past them.

    I'm puzzled as to why, but the three of you - and not all nationalist posters suffer from it - seem to be becoming more strident and hysterical in recent weeks. TUD always had an edge, and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks. Stuart, of course, always accused everyone of not knowing Scotland, as befits our poster from Sweden. And you of course always insulted everyone with invention and flair.

    But just recently, TUD has entirely given up engaging with facts or providing reasoned arguments, Stuart has started to resemble the Russian bots who got the boot and you've started condoning racism against posters you don't like.

    Which seems - well, odd.

    I was wondering why. Is it frustration that the SNP are incapable of given you what you want? Embarrassment at the way Salmond and Sturgeon have been knocking lumps out of each other (not very successfully in Salmond's case)? Or just a desire to make the English hate you so much that they will kick Scotland out of the union just to shut you all up?

    It's especially odd as it doesn't seem to have affected Carnyx or Alistair, who are still people you can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with.

    Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks? I'd hate to think that you'd gone off on one of your pompous pronouncements based on a misapprehension (not for the first time).
    That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.

    It may not be deliberate, of course.

    Edit - btw, there should be a comma there. 'got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made, or accused people of being drunks.'

    I blame autocorrect...
    Lol, one your weakest comebacks, and you've had some pretty anemic ones.
    I note, as usual, you are unable to engage with the actual substance.

    When you're able to, people will take you seriously.

    Until then, you're just a Scottish version of Dominic Cummings.

    I don't know why you've gone so far downhill, and it's a bit sad to watch actually. But you have.
    'and got very defensive when anyone pointed out 'mistakes' the SNP had made or accused people of being drunks.'

    'Can you point me to the occasion or occasions when I got defensive about people being accused of being drunks?'

    'That's the implication of your 'Scotch expert' tag.'

    What's that about substance?

    For the avoidance of doubt, being taken seriously on here is not high on my agenda. The prevalence of pompous twerps who take themselves very seriously indeed is an eternal admonition on that front.
    Well, that is the substance of it. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a 'Scotch expert,' i.e. a drunk.

    Now that may not be what you intend, but it's what you say. And while it started out being mildly amusing, it's becoming more and more aggressive, as you are becoming.

    So, is there a reason for it? I was just wondering. If you can't explain your own changing behaviour, that's fair enough, you don't have to. Just don't be surprised if you come in for criticism over it.
    I've never interpreted Scotch expert as meaning drunk, I think it's just a joke about the solecism of not saying Scottish.
    Fair play, someone get’s it. That’s the primary qualification for not being a Scotch Expert.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,914
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I haven't watched much of the Olympics, but I will say that it's been great to see people trying their hardest to be the best they possibly can be at something. Many have dedicated their lives to their sport, spending countless thousands of hours training, and it might be the only Olympics they get to compete in. Even if they come back with no medals, at least they've tried.

    I've got to admire that dedication.

    Must be doubly frustrating for those however who work and train and get there - and then something goes wrong through no fault of their own and they lose out.

    That horse springs to mind. Which may explain, if hardly excuse, why the trainer punched it in the mouth.
    It was on the arse. Inexcusable, but the horse will hardly have felt it.
    I don't know a horse's arse from its face.

    That's embarrassing.

    Perhaps I should stand as Prime Minister?
    One of my late dad's favourite songs was Delaney's donkey

    The lady had a donkey that everyone admired
    It was permanently lazy, it was temporarily tired
    It had a leg at every corner and a balance in its head
    And a tail to let you know the end it wanted to be fed.

    I think that covers all the essentials of equine geography you really need to know.
  • Heathener said:

    Wow, it's a bit hot on here atm, so I'll just try to change the subject. ;)

    I couldn't believe the rudeness I received on joining. Not a word of gracious or gentlemanly welcome (since almost everyone seems to be a white man of a certain age).

    I hope I will stick around but if I do it will be with great caution. There's far too much anger and argument online at the moment.
    Sorry to read that. Most new posters get a word or two of welcome at first. Don't know why it didn't happen with you, although sometimes the posts come thick and fast and an individual comment gets lost a page or so back.
    And we're by no means all middle-aged and white. I, for example, am old and pinkish round the edges!

    But you're right; it is a bit warm today, metaphorically.
    And I am old too
  • MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
    None of my family will ever be qualified for basketball; 5' 8" is about the best we can manage but there's no reason why we can produce competitive surfers or volleyball players.
    And I wouldn't like to think that some sports 'just didn't get' funding.
    The obvious example was Charlotte Worthington; the funding for women's BMX was withdrawn for a while, and she kept on going through that gap. One wonders who else is out there but not getting the funds to develop.

    If the aim is to turn pounds into medals, then the Aussie-style focus on a smallish number of sports like swimming and rowing makes sense. Especially sports which depend on fairly expensive equipment or animals. But personally, it feels more fun to watch British people doing well across a wider field. And unless position on the medal table gives you the horn, fun is what it's all about- isn't it?

    Maybe it's another way that I'm not Australian enough.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,988

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Just following on from a topic raised last night, I don't often disagree with @FrancisUrquhart and @MaxPB but I'd question the view that taking money from the high-medal scoring sports and putting it in other areas is necessarily a bad thing. for several reasons:

    1. The obvious point - money does not always guarantee success (rowing);

    2. The heavily invested sports may be benefiting from a "slingshot" effect where enough success has been generated to keep them going at a strong level. The (poor) analogy I would use is building a factory: high capex at the start but, once done, spend becomes about maintenance, repairs and upgrades. There is no need for huge investments;

    3. Looking ahead. It is a long process from investment to training to medal winners. I suspect Team GB is looking ahead. Yes, the likes of rowing produce many medals now but what about in 2-3 Olympics' time? I suspect BMX, for example, will have more medal categories added, as will some of the other events. The Games evolve;

    4. Public interest. Again, you need to somewhat keep people aligned with what you do if you are asking them for lottery money. Some of the events may seem "esoteric" but they might be very popular with underprivileged areas of society, where there could be medal hopes.

    That wasn't quite my argument....I actually said I can see the argument about the feedback loop, that can negatively effect some sports.

    My point was more along the lines of Team GB has been incredibly successful over the past 20 years by carefully targetting sports that can return medals, in particular sports that we can leverage things like technological advantage over (Jason Kenny et al. had special bikes again, far more advanced than anybody else).

    But the next funding round we are taking money away from sports that do regularly produce many many medals and putting them into sports that never in my lifetime will ( or highly unlikely to). Basketball is a huge waste of money, as it will just go on paying the insurance premiums for NBA ringers. Surfing, we aren't winning in that, and there is 2 medals for it total. Volleyball, again UK has no pedigree in it.

    And this money isn't for widening participation. There are separate pots of money for that. This is for funding elite athletes to focus solely on being the best in the world and winning Olympic / World Championship medals.
    Re the technical advantages, and on Track Cycling specifically, the Bikes that the Track Cycling teams use have had to be available for general sale to the public since the start of the year so that technological advantage is mainly wiped out because your competitors can see what you are doing.

    On a wider point, I think Team GB's performance at the Olympics this time round actually shows the success of widening the pool of sports in which we complete. Consider this:

    when Gracenote did their medals prediction, the main driver they said for their 52 initial target was a much weaker performance in Rowing, Track Cycling and Gymnastics. They pointed out 1/3 of our medals had come from those sports in Rio - 22 - and it could be as lower as 5 podium places from the three combined in 2021.

    Obviously we did better than that, mainly due to Track Cycling but Gracenote also would not have used a worst case scenario - my guess is the 12 combined (correct me if I'm wrong) was close to what they factored in to their estimates.

    So Team GB did much better than their estimates, and even that underestimates our performance - given our bad luck on injuries and mishaps, it is easy to see that our final total should have been above 70. We have won medals in sports, such as weightlifting, that nobody would have thought were possible a few years back.

    What you seem to be advocating - and apologies if I'm wrong - is an Australia-Max style policy i.e. ruthlessly focus on specific sports to harvest the most medals. That is great if it works, and Australia obviously had a big rebound in this Olympics from swimming but the downside is you are putting your eggs in one or two baskets. And if you look at the Australian medal haul by each day, they hardly won anything in the last few days.
    Its true about the bikes being commercially available, but nobody else had them at this Olympics....those rules have been used in other sports and there are ways to ensure you get a head start.

    Yes ruthless focus on specific sports, but far from eggs in one basket. What I am saying if we shouldn't be wasting funding on sports or events where no chance at all, if that means taking money away from sports that can realistically produce medals. Basketball, surfing, volleyball (in the past), is passing money up the wall. I am also not really sure any point in funding certain athletic events e.g. marathon runners unless have track pedigree. The barrier to entry to running is incredibly low and highly genetically determined. Funding 3 white guys to run the marathon is pointless.
    None of my family will ever be qualified for basketball; 5' 8" is about the best we can manage but there's no reason why we can produce competitive surfers or volleyball players.
    And I wouldn't like to think that some sports 'just didn't get' funding.
    Errhhh volleyball is also incredibly height dependent and there is no real level of participation or pedigree. Its like saying we could be good at baseball....

    Surfing, well for starters we don't have the conditions...long winters and the waves we get aren't really what you need to be good.

    And again..... this funding is for elite athletes to focus on their sport, its not about funding sport for people to have a go and get interested. That's a different pot of money.
    I thought Cornwall and possibly SW Wales were suitable surfing sites.

    But otherwise, always prepared to stand corrected.
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