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The Great Graduate Divide: Why the Tories might fare better with Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,159
    edited August 2021
    Crikey, I like John Rentoul a lot, but how fucking dumb is he not to know that 'Kill the bill' doesn't mean killing police officers?

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1423641212406452229
  • Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    76% consider there is too much or an appropriate level of immigration, no matter how you view it
    'Too much' is the same as 'appropriate'? Well, that's a radical development in the English language.
    The point is that only 10% want more
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,818
    I doubt Sunak would make much difference to Boris in the Red Wall, as the figures show Boris still has better favourables than Starmer amongst non graduates anyway (though that was pre his coalmines comments).

    Where Sunak might make a difference as the figures show is with graduates where Starmer leads Boris but Sunak leads Starmer ie Remain graduate heavy seats in the Home Counties in particular like Chesham where the Tories are under pressure from the LDs.

    However as long as the Tories continue to have a poll lead they are unlikely to make the switch
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,851
    edited August 2021

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Aww diddums. Is it not hating on Britain enough for your taste?

    You'd rather they not show the competitions our athletes are competing in?
    And of course as usual Roger is talking absolute bollocks. They spend loads of time on other nations elite performers, even with their restricted programming, showing the final of things like the javalin and softball live, which had absolutely no British interest.

    You think US telly bothers showing a final of events with zero Americans or is not a sport Americans take part in?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Agreed. North Korean levels of state promotion. The interest in actual sporting competition is zero.

    Well done TeamBoris.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,536

    Boris Johnson refuses to apologise for joke about Thatcher closing coal mines

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-thatcher-coal-mines-b1898125.html?amp

    I'd like him to apologise - not for the joke, but because it's set off the punditry who love to obsess about Thatcher, lionising or demonising.

    Given the likely age of most politicians and pundits I think they find it nostalgic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 74,536

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Agreed. North Korean levels of state promotion. The interest in actual sporting competition is zero.

    Well done TeamBoris.
    Is there a corollary to Godwins law involving North Korea?
  • Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    76% consider there is too much or an appropriate level of immigration, no matter how you view it
    'Too much' is the same as 'appropriate'? Well, that's a radical development in the English language.
    The point is that only 10% want more
    I wonder how many people want more and want the land made available to ensure sufficient housing and infrastructure for people who do migrate here and the people already here?

    I suspect that's an incredibly limited Venn Diagram. I'm in it, but not sure who else is.
  • Well done Ollie Robinson, first Five-fer.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,577
    edited August 2021
    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,818
    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
  • HYUFD said:

    I doubt Sunak would make much difference to Boris in the Red Wall, as the figures show Boris still has better favourables than Starmer amongst non graduates anyway (though that was pre his coalmines comments).

    Where Sunak might make a difference as the figures show is with graduates where Starmer leads Boris but Sunak leads Starmer ie Remain graduate heavy seats in the Home Counties in particular like Chesham where the Tories are under pressure from the LDs.

    However as long as the Tories continue to have a poll lead they are unlikely to make the switch

    I detect considerable murmurings about Boris from previous supporters and the Boris being Boris mantra is losing its appeal

    The sooner Rishi takes over and restores competence the better for all of us
  • kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Agreed. North Korean levels of state promotion. The interest in actual sporting competition is zero.

    Well done TeamBoris.
    Is there a corollary to Godwins law involving North Korea?
    The I'm So Ronery law.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.
    Australia has a Union Jack in the corner of their flag.

    Therefore every single Australia is a Gammon.

    Therefore showing the volleyball match was Disgusting Jingoism.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144
    28 for Bumrah, I’m starting to feel thankful that Eagles didn’t take the bet! First 5WI for Ollie Robinson, and a great catch to finish the Indian innings.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,197

    Crikey, I like John Rentoul a lot, but how fucking dumb is he not to know that 'Kill the bill' doesn't mean killing police officers?

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1423641212406452229

    A large chunk of the online right decided "Kill the Bill" was about killing police officers. I believe a couple of people on here even expressed that view.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,851
    edited August 2021

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.
    If anything the BBC with their restricted programming have shown too many events with no British interest. They showed all sorts of minority sports that Brits just aren't competitive in e.g. live Karate "dancing" last night. I have no bloody clue what it was, how you "win" and why the BBC weren't showing for instance the mens modern pentathlon fencing which a Brit came top in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144
    Alistair said:

    Crikey, I like John Rentoul a lot, but how fucking dumb is he not to know that 'Kill the bill' doesn't mean killing police officers?

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1423641212406452229

    A large chunk of the online right decided "Kill the Bill" was about killing police officers. I believe a couple of people on here even expressed that view.
    That phrase was first heard in 1994, in opposition to the Criminal Justice Act of that year that banned outdoor raves.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,027
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Agreed. North Korean levels of state promotion. The interest in actual sporting competition is zero.

    Well done TeamBoris.
    Is there a corollary to Godwins law involving North Korea?
    Yep, Divvie's law whereby the folk that have spent years criticising Scotland/the SNP for being North Korean, a banana republic, a one party state etc invariably don't like similar being aimed at their polity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,908
    edited August 2021
    Imagine losing a penalty shoot out in sudden death and then having Coldplay come out over the tannoy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,267

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,717
    kle4 said:

    Do Britons support or oppose new measures aimed at tackling illegal immigration, including life sentences for people traffickers & the criminalisation of those who facilitate the entry of asylum seekers into the UK?

    Support: 67%
    Neither: 15%
    Oppose: 10%





    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423649127464833034?s=20

    It's a bit like Covid polling, the specifics of the question less vital than if it's a proxy for ' I am serious about x'
    Well yes. The reality is that the measures that would best reduce illegal immigration aren't very headline grabbing, and involve prosecuting Brits. Which might garner negative headlines.

    So instead we put in place measures that will have limited impact, but which show the government is very, very serious.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,767
    Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762
  • Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
    The focus on “Immigration” has moved from EU FoM, to people risking their lives on dinghys in the Channel. Very few people are in favour of the latter.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,529

    Well done Ollie Robinson, first Five-fer.

    First innings lead of 95.
    Indian first wicket partnership of 97.
    England first-wicket partnership of 0.

    That's the game right there.
  • Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,658

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
  • Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic

    Dom Sibley definitely has to be dropped. Rory Burns is still living on past glories and his average now isn't actually very good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144

    Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic

    I’ll buy that, ever the optimist.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,027
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
  • Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic

    Dom Sibley definitely has to be dropped. Rory Burns is still living on past glories and his average now isn't actually very good.
    Burns deserved to be dropped for the ponytail/manbun.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2021
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
    The focus on “Immigration” has moved from EU FoM, to people risking their lives on dinghys in the Channel. Very few people are in favour of the latter.
    Well said. I 100% support immigration and would be quite happy to see immigration increase from where it is now (so long as construction can keep pace with it).

    But I do not support anyone crossing the Channel in dinghies and people smugglers engaging in that leading to deaths at sea is pretty evil.
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    They also were wittering for 5 mins about the athelete who won the 400m because she had focused on just that event....but she actually had doubled up....

    The BBC coverage has been very poor, but not because it has been too Brit focused.
  • kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
    I would suggest 31% consider immigration to be at an appropriate level is far from 'not fussed'
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,717
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Except that would probably apply to the majority of questions, making asking them pointless.

    Whether or not the public know enough to answer meaningfully the fact is they will have an opinion and that will influence their political representatives, who also may not really know enough.

    So we need to know what people think is the answer, and if the public are just plain wrong you need leaders of strength to explain that.

    Of course, instead they tend to just pretend the public supports a position even if they dont instead, as it's easier.

    Its only things like the death penalty that politicians dont react to public opinion.
    Absolutely correct.

    And there is a fundamental issue that people don't feel they have been listened to on immigration for a long time, and this has consequences.

    It's also true that governments have not explained the consequences of an inverted population pyramid to people, nor shown that developed countries with low birth rates and low levels of immigration have really struggled economically.

    Governments have also not owned up to the fact that the UK's education and benefits systems have resulted in firms demanding immigrant labour before the pool of domestic labour has been used up. (Compare to Germany or Switzerland, where immigration has tended only to show sharp upswings when domestic labour markets have been very tight.)

    Basically, it's complicated.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,206
    Boris Johnson is not isolating despite a member of his team who accompanied him on visit on Wednesday testing positive for Covid. Said not to have been in "close contact" although another source insists pair were "side-by-side". Scoop from @breeallegretti. https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1423657601586368513
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,851
    edited August 2021
    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
    Was FUDHY’s analysis incomplete? I am shocked I tells ya.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,529

    Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic

    The last four years of England opening partnerships in England.

    Checking the dates there do seem to be a lot recently below your spread.
  • Paging West Ham fans.

    You might be better off sticking with the dildo brothers.

    https://theathletic.com/2753521/2021/08/06/west-ham-takeover-bid-the-legal-dispute-surrounding-pai-capital/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,767
    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,027
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
    Was FUDHY’s analysis incomplete? I am shocked I tells ya.
    He has all the numbers at his fingertips, he'll just be double checking them I'm sure..
  • My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    Who do you think we are ...continental types....better get back in training that right arm to wave your tenner through a crowd of people while shouting at the bar staff.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144

    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    As someone who’s not been in the UK for the pandemic, how did the order-by-app thing work? Did each pub or pub company develop their own app, or did a few ‘Pub App’ companies make a fortune?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 13,466
    I have a slight impression that this Sunak loved in the South theme may be a hostage to fortune wrt the autumn budget.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    Poland should not stay in EU at all costs, says minister

    Surveys show an overwhelming majority of Poles favour EU membership. Nevertheless, a recent poll carried out for Rzeczpospolita showed that 17% of Poles favoured leaving the bloc, an increase on previous surveys.

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/poland-should-not-stay-in-eu-at-all-costs-says-minister/
  • rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Do Britons support or oppose new measures aimed at tackling illegal immigration, including life sentences for people traffickers & the criminalisation of those who facilitate the entry of asylum seekers into the UK?

    Support: 67%
    Neither: 15%
    Oppose: 10%





    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423649127464833034?s=20

    It's a bit like Covid polling, the specifics of the question less vital than if it's a proxy for ' I am serious about x'
    Well yes. The reality is that the measures that would best reduce illegal immigration aren't very headline grabbing, and involve prosecuting Brits. Which might garner negative headlines.

    So instead we put in place measures that will have limited impact, but which show the government is very, very serious.
    And yet- think back to that Mori poll earlier this week- or the ConHome ratings of ministers. Patel is doing really badly. Bleeding heart liberals don't like her rhetoric, string them up/kick them out types don't like the gap between rhetoric and reality.

    It's all very well saying that the public don't want more immigration, but unless they are prepared to will the means (which would need the Navy to do some pretty ruthless things in the Channel as well as spending more on border control) and the consequences (who else is going to do those jobs at a price customers are prepared to pay?), that's just someone shouting at the clouds.

    That's why Farage is a smarter grifter than Patel. Shout about immigration, then make sure it's not his responsibility to do anything about it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,908
    Elon's got it up, and it's miles bigger than Bezos'

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423659261452709893
  • City in for Kane making the investment in just 2 players a quarter of a billion pounds and yet Barcelona cannot keep Messi

    It seems insane money and must raise issues of fair competition
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    Sandpit said:

    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    As someone who’s not been in the UK for the pandemic, how did the order-by-app thing work? Did each pub or pub company develop their own app, or did a few ‘Pub App’ companies make a fortune?
    A picture - some breweries offered their own app*, some places used a paid for service. Quite a few didn't require an app, and worked as a website.

    *probably with a bought in service behind it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,851
    edited August 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    The problem is times have changed. The level of coverage and analysis is far greater, so that fans of a sport are really well informed. With in depth coverage on the internet for even niche sports.

    Hence why the Athletic is doing so well, and if you read that and then try and watch MOTD and they are talking about xG or percentage possession you just want to throw things through the telly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 97,818
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
    There was some swing to Greens too as well as the Tories but of course the Scottish Greens are more focused on reform of the Gender Recognition Act than an imminent indyref2, they are not Alba
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,292

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    The Saudi team warming up...

    https://www.thesun.ie/travel/1345765/saudi-arabia-to-build-a-western-style-beach-resort-where-women-can-wear-bikinis-instead-of-burkas/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
    Was FUDHY’s analysis incomplete? I am shocked I tells ya.
    He has all the numbers at his fingertips, he'll just be double checking them I'm sure..
    He’s the psephologist everyone turns to. It’s so exciting!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,971

    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.

    Do you know what they were last Friday?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,144

    City in for Kane making the investment in just 2 players a quarter of a billion pounds and yet Barcelona cannot keep Messi

    It seems insane money and must raise issues of fair competition

    Maybe Barcelona should think about raising their £150/year season ticket prices, if they want to spend more money on players…
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
  • Stocky said:

    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.

    Do you know what they were last Friday?
    26,144 cases.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    FPT:
    Keir just cannot get a break:

    " Yesterday’s by-election saw the SNP win at stage five after receiving 42.5% of first-preference votes, up 1.7 points on the 2017 poll.

    The Tories came second with 1085 votes, 24.4% of the overall total – with their support also up 2.4 points.

    Meanwhile Labour received 969 votes, 21.8% of the overall share and a decrease of 9.1 points on the 2017 local council election.

    The Scottish Greens were up 4 points with 7.6% of the vote, and the LibDems received 2.7% of the vote, no change on the previous election. "

    Great result for the Scottish Tories, swing of 0.35% from SNP to SCon and swing of 5.75% from SLab to SCon
    What's the swing from Unionist supporting parties to Indy parties, Skip?
    There was some swing to Greens too as well as the Tories but of course the Scottish Greens are more focused on reform of the Gender Recognition Act than an imminent indyref2, they are not Alba
    Aha. Not answering the question. Again. Great strategy boss!
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    They enrich their favoured presenters rather well
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 70,851
    edited August 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    Don't forget,

    Basically anything not covered very much by the mainstream e.g. tech... YouTube

    Youtube was stupid cat videos, then twats "vlogging" their meals, but now it has serious specialist channels made by people who know their stuff and the production quality is now often better than tv e.g. Linus Tech Tips is 4k.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,267
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
    The focus on “Immigration” has moved from EU FoM, to people risking their lives on dinghys in the Channel. Very few people are in favour of the latter.
    I agree nobody wants to see that. The answer there would be 0% vs 100%. So I think here it's people giving their honest instinctive general view about immigration and 45% have a negative one. That's a lot of people and I'd say they powered Brexit and the Johnson landslide. It's a simplification, of course, but it's one that does more clarifying than obscuring.
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    Don't forget,

    Anything not covered by the mainstream e.g. tech... YouTube
    Not just outside the mainstream. Kids YouTube is better than CBBC.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 226

    Stocky said:

    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.

    Do you know what they were last Friday?
    26,144 cases.
    29,622. 26,144 was Saturday's number I think.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,767
    @Iceland_Review
    ·
    Aug 5
    If case numbers continue to rise, Iceland's healthcare system could be at risk of collapse, stated the Deputy Chief Epidemiologist in a briefing today.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,292

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    Aww diddums. Is it not hating on Britain enough for your taste?

    You'd rather they not show the competitions our athletes are competing in?
    You're back! Thank goodness. I thought you'd been fired
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 40,138
    Alistair said:

    Alistair's Covid forecast for today
    <26,000 Brilliant
    <28,000 Good
    <30,000 Fine
    >30,000 Half baked theory is in full swing

    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.

    Alistair should enter Bake Off.

    image
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313
    Boris Johnson will not isolate after staffer tests positive for Covid
    Exclusive: decision comes despite a source saying they were ‘side-by-side’ on occasions during Scotland trip

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/06/boris-johnson-will-not-isolate-after-staffer-tests-positive-for-covid
  • rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Do Britons support or oppose new measures aimed at tackling illegal immigration, including life sentences for people traffickers & the criminalisation of those who facilitate the entry of asylum seekers into the UK?

    Support: 67%
    Neither: 15%
    Oppose: 10%





    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1423649127464833034?s=20

    It's a bit like Covid polling, the specifics of the question less vital than if it's a proxy for ' I am serious about x'
    Well yes. The reality is that the measures that would best reduce illegal immigration aren't very headline grabbing, and involve prosecuting Brits. Which might garner negative headlines.

    So instead we put in place measures that will have limited impact, but which show the government is very, very serious.
    And yet- think back to that Mori poll earlier this week- or the ConHome ratings of ministers. Patel is doing really badly. Bleeding heart liberals don't like her rhetoric, string them up/kick them out types don't like the gap between rhetoric and reality.

    It's all very well saying that the public don't want more immigration, but unless they are prepared to will the means (which would need the Navy to do some pretty ruthless things in the Channel as well as spending more on border control) and the consequences (who else is going to do those jobs at a price customers are prepared to pay?), that's just someone shouting at the clouds.

    That's why Farage is a smarter grifter than Patel. Shout about immigration, then make sure it's not his responsibility to do anything about it.
    Patel is a total failure and I do think her inability to stem the flow of migrants crossing the channel is a disaster

    Furthermore, the controversy over the RNLI has been an own goal

    And on the subject of the RNLI my son has his first 'shout' just after 10 last night but thankfully the police managed to take into care someone who was vulnerable and the crew were stood down
  • Maffew said:

    Stocky said:

    31,808 cases....92 deaths.

    Cases on the rise again.

    Do you know what they were last Friday?
    26,144 cases.
    29,622. 26,144 was Saturday's number I think.
    Sorry yes, read the wrong date.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 49,767
    Sandpit said:

    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    As someone who’s not been in the UK for the pandemic, how did the order-by-app thing work? Did each pub or pub company develop their own app, or did a few ‘Pub App’ companies make a fortune?
    The latter I believe. My local used ServedUp. There was also something called Round at another pub.

    Whether they made a fortune is another matter.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,313

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    Yoonyun Jackery. Ra ra ra!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,409
    Boris Johnson, a hypocritical buffoon?

    Sacre bleu!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,611

    Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

    Likely because they will have mucosal antibodies to a greater extent (as opposed to the ones in the bloodstream) - which is why intranasal vaccination has been suggested (and is I think to be trialled).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,062
    Nigelb said:

    .

    IshmaelZ said:

    Some dispute on stirrups, I'd heard it was around 4th century AD China, although it's not guaranteed:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirrup#China_and_Korea

    Mr. Divvie, aye, the Roman cavalry was worse than the Gallic cavalry. And the Numidian cavalry. And the Parthian cavalry.

    Essentially, the Roman cavalry was pretty much the worst in Europe. Maybe the world. It was oddly bad. Not 100% useless but in stark contrast to the all-conquering infantry.

    They used a four-horned saddle that helped to grip the rider and keep him in place.

    Edited extra bit: also worth noting that Roman legions were paired with auxiliaries who furnished a larger number of significantly higher quality horse, which helped offset this weakness.

    Interesting thought experiment:

    If you were sent back in time to an arbitrary date, what invention would you personally be able to invent ahead of its time and procure wealth, status and world domination for yourself? In my case, it's embarrassing how few answers there are. I certainly couldn't teach the bronze age how to smelt iron or make glass. I think the stirrup would be the best I could do. I know in theory how to make gunpowder, but if you can't make guns that doesn't help much. ETA nor if you can't identify or manufacture any of the 3 ingredients.
    I think I could probably make a pretty crappy printing press, but the fate of Gutenberg doesn't encourage me that I could make a fortune from it: it left him bankrupt. He was eventually given a stipend by the Archbishop for his work at 65, 3 years before he died, as well as 2000 litres of wine - I'm surprised he lasted 3 years
    Korea had movable metal type before anyone.
    Didn't do them much good.
    The price of early printed books varied directly with the extent to which Venice and Florence were fighting wars, becuse you need the same metal to make type, and bullets.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,062

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    76% consider there is too much or an appropriate level of immigration, no matter how you view it
    'Too much' is the same as 'appropriate'? Well, that's a radical development in the English language.
    The point is that only 10% want more
    I wonder how many people want more and want the land made available to ensure sufficient housing and infrastructure for people who do migrate here and the people already here?

    I suspect that's an incredibly limited Venn Diagram. I'm in it, but not sure who else is.
    The loveliness of it all is overwhelming, except that you then keep complaining you have nowhere to live. I wonder why that is.
  • tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    They enrich their favoured presenters rather well
    On this, why was Lineker ever paid TEN TIMES more than the PM?!?

    I know he's agreed a pay cut now, but he's still on well over a million a year. People don't watch MOTD to see Lineker's understandably smug face, or if they do they're not football fans.

    I may be very wrong, but I assume people watch it like I do to see clips of their team's performance that Saturday. I'd watch if it were presented by AI. It might be more entertaining that way
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,577

    Sandpit said:

    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    As someone who’s not been in the UK for the pandemic, how did the order-by-app thing work? Did each pub or pub company develop their own app, or did a few ‘Pub App’ companies make a fortune?
    A picture - some breweries offered their own app*, some places used a paid for service. Quite a few didn't require an app, and worked as a website.

    *probably with a bought in service behind it.
    Table service should mean a member of staff coming to your table to take your order. Not a bloody app.

    No Smartphone, no beer?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK local R

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    England PCR positivity

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK case summary

    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK hospitals

    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK Deaths

    image
  • Sandpit said:

    Ooh an England opening partnership..

    What are your spreads for the runs? I reckon 10-12, which may be wildly optimistic

    I’ll buy that, ever the optimist.
    Up to 26-28 now..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    UK R

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    Age related data

    image
    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    Age related data scaled to 100K

    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    Case rate changes

    image
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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,267

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    For once, I agree with Roger. Most people should answer "don't know" to these sorts of questions.
    Polling wouldn't be able to ask any questions if it required in depth knowledge....its a proxy for how people generally feel, which in this case they don't want ever higher levels of immigration.
    That's right, I think. It's a proxy for how people feel generally about immigration.

    45% don't like the idea. 10% love the idea. 31% are not fussed.

    You can do the maths. This is why Brexit happened and why the party who took ownership of it will be hard to shift under FPTP.
    I would suggest 31% consider immigration to be at an appropriate level is far from 'not fussed'
    Not in every case, no, but I bet it is in many cases. When you ask someone "is the current level of immigration into the UK too high or too low or about right?", will they (i) know what the level is and (ii) assess this against their considered view of what the country needs? Or will they just say Too High if they dislike immigration, Too Low if they like it, or About Right if it's not an issue they feel strongly about?

    I reckon mainly the latter. Also the numbers sound about right. 45% of the public rather dislike the notion of immigration. See it as the country being penetrated. No room. Charity begins at home. All of this. 10% positively welcome the idea of people 'comin over here' from all over the world. The Bien Peasants. And 31% don't have immigration as one of their big concerns.

    I'm probably running too far with this but I think I'm running in broadly the right direction.
  • My initial 10-12 spread for England's first innings runs is intriguingly poised with tea taken and ENG 11-0..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806

    Sandpit said:

    My local has dropped the drink-order-by-app and table service. Back to queuing at the bar. :disappointed:

    As someone who’s not been in the UK for the pandemic, how did the order-by-app thing work? Did each pub or pub company develop their own app, or did a few ‘Pub App’ companies make a fortune?
    A picture - some breweries offered their own app*, some places used a paid for service. Quite a few didn't require an app, and worked as a website.

    *probably with a bought in service behind it.
    Table service should mean a member of staff coming to your table to take your order. Not a bloody app.

    No Smartphone, no beer?
    The ones that worked well, in pubs with large numbers of tables inside and out, were (and are) quite handy when out with a groups of friends. Not spending 45 minutes trying to get a round in, at the bar etc. Instead just order what people wanted in about 2 minutes and it arrives....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 26,806
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IshmaelZ said:

    Some dispute on stirrups, I'd heard it was around 4th century AD China, although it's not guaranteed:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirrup#China_and_Korea

    Mr. Divvie, aye, the Roman cavalry was worse than the Gallic cavalry. And the Numidian cavalry. And the Parthian cavalry.

    Essentially, the Roman cavalry was pretty much the worst in Europe. Maybe the world. It was oddly bad. Not 100% useless but in stark contrast to the all-conquering infantry.

    They used a four-horned saddle that helped to grip the rider and keep him in place.

    Edited extra bit: also worth noting that Roman legions were paired with auxiliaries who furnished a larger number of significantly higher quality horse, which helped offset this weakness.

    Interesting thought experiment:

    If you were sent back in time to an arbitrary date, what invention would you personally be able to invent ahead of its time and procure wealth, status and world domination for yourself? In my case, it's embarrassing how few answers there are. I certainly couldn't teach the bronze age how to smelt iron or make glass. I think the stirrup would be the best I could do. I know in theory how to make gunpowder, but if you can't make guns that doesn't help much. ETA nor if you can't identify or manufacture any of the 3 ingredients.
    I think I could probably make a pretty crappy printing press, but the fate of Gutenberg doesn't encourage me that I could make a fortune from it: it left him bankrupt. He was eventually given a stipend by the Archbishop for his work at 65, 3 years before he died, as well as 2000 litres of wine - I'm surprised he lasted 3 years
    Korea had movable metal type before anyone.
    Didn't do them much good.
    The price of early printed books varied directly with the extent to which Venice and Florence were fighting wars, becuse you need the same metal to make type, and bullets.
    Rifled firearms have been around for a long long time. Inventing the Minié ball early would be trivial. And make a rifle load as fast as a smooth bore musket...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,584
    .

    tlg86 said:

    Roger said:

    Anyone following the Olympics on the BBC would not only think Team GB had won every medal they'd also think they were the only competitors

    They just showed a beach volleyball final between USA and Australia.

    Edit: Now China v Germany in the wiff waff.
    Rogeradumus strikes again.....
    I have to say, I have found myself watching Eurosport for the track cycling. Carlton Kirby can be a irritating in large doses but at least he knew who had gained a lap in the Madison unlike anyone on the BBC.
    Eurosport commentators ten times better than the BBC. They actually know, love and understand their sport.
    The BBC are hopeless at Sport and most any broadcaster would do better

    FTFY.

    Want sport? Any other broadcaster is better.
    Want drama? Netflix etc are better.
    Want news? PB etc are better.
    Want the weather? Can just ask Alexa.

    What exactly does the BBC excel at nowadays? The Proms I suppose, anything else?
    They enrich their favoured presenters rather well
    On this, why was Lineker ever paid TEN TIMES more than the PM?!?

    I know he's agreed a pay cut now, but he's still on well over a million a year. People don't watch MOTD to see Lineker's understandably smug face, or if they do they're not football fans.

    I may be very wrong, but I assume people watch it like I do to see clips of their team's performance that Saturday. I'd watch if it were presented by AI. It might be more entertaining that way
    Maybe they should arrange a job swap.

    I suspect Lineker would be happy with making rejoin policy decisions and Johnson would be happy with Lineker's income.

    A win, win as far as I am concerned.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Roger said:

    Despite the well publicised shortage of HGV drivers, agricultural workers and others this poll may come as a surprise to quite a few


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton

    Does the British public think there is too much, not enough, or an appropriate level of immigration in the UK?

    Too much: 45%
    An appropriate level: 31%
    Not enough: 10%

    Unless you're an employer of immigrant labour which I would imagine is a very niche section of the population you're asking people to guess. It's like asking if the bus service from Aberystwith to Prestatyn is too frequent not frequent enough or just about right.
    76% consider there is too much or an appropriate level of immigration, no matter how you view it
    'Too much' is the same as 'appropriate'? Well, that's a radical development in the English language.
    The point is that only 10% want more
    I wonder how many people want more and want the land made available to ensure sufficient housing and infrastructure for people who do migrate here and the people already here?

    I suspect that's an incredibly limited Venn Diagram. I'm in it, but not sure who else is.
    The loveliness of it all is overwhelming, except that you then keep complaining you have nowhere to live. I wonder why that is.
    You seem to have misread everything I've written on the subject then.

    I live in the North, the Red Wall, and construction has been going great guns here. Its a booming success. And house prices have been suppressed as a result, which is a good thing.

    Its in other areas especially down South that the issues of despicable NIMBYs are leading to people of my generation having nowhere to live. I have friends and relatives down South that would struggle to pay a deposit to get a house with the prices as insane as they are down there because NIMBYs are blocking construction in order to protect their house prices - a despicable policy you shamelessly support.

    I want to see more construction allowed for the benefit of others of my generation and younger, not specifically for myself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,611
    edited August 2021
    First time since it was constructed...

    California hits drought milestone as Oroville hydropower stops for first time
    https://www.politico.com/states/california/whiteboard/2021/08/05/california-hits-drought-milestone-as-oroville-hydropower-stops-for-first-time-1389642
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