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Biden should be a stronger favourite than this to win a second term – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,136
    edited August 2021
    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    400m hurdles.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
  • tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175

    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    400m hurdles.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    His PB in the 400m hurdles is now less than a second off his PB in the 400m flat.
  • tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
    Certainly both men had their shredded wheat this morning....lets just hope thats all.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175

    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
    Certainly both men had their shredded wheat this morning....lets just hope thats all.
    There’s no drug that makes you jump hurdles like that.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
    Certainly both men had their shredded wheat this morning....lets just hope thats all.
    There’s no drug that makes you jump hurdles like that.
    Wasn't there some chat yesterday about the torrential rain then baking sun having speeded up the track?
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
    Certainly both men had their shredded wheat this morning....lets just hope thats all.
    There’s no drug that makes you jump hurdles like that.
    But there are drugs that mean you don't run out of steam.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,175

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    New WR in the men’s 400m by someone from Norway of all places.

    Not just a WR, a massive improvement....on top of the fact that WR only went earlier this year.
    And the silver medallist broke the old world record – imagine breaking the world record and only winning silver.
    Certainly both men had their shredded wheat this morning....lets just hope thats all.
    There’s no drug that makes you jump hurdles like that.
    But there are drugs that mean you don't run out of steam.....
    Watching the close up replay, I notice that he pushes himself to take longer strides towards the end rather than take one more stride as is common in that event.
  • Caroline Dubois unlucky to get a split decision against her in the boxing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284
    Just seen Warholm's sub 46. Unreal
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    edited August 2021


    LEFT: Sunak’s team brief Sunday Times

    Sunak calls to ‘save holidays’

    RIGHT: Johnson in Telegraph

    ‘PM steps in to save holidays’

    There is now a MAJOR briefing war between the advisors of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak over who can be seen to ‘save’ holidays by scrapping quarantine


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1422308800288206851?s=20

    It’s pretty obvious that the PM has been turned over by his cabinet colleagues, doubtless spurred on by discontent on the back benches. He’s attempted to limit the damage by using his links with the Telegraph to get them to spin his airbrushed version of the story, but all the other papers are reporting that the PM has been forced to drop the proposal.

    We know already that the PM can’t resist meddling to complicate things; he wrecked the five stages of Coronavirus alert at launch by suggesting we start at three and a half, and was clearly set to add a further fifth colour to the original ‘simple’ traffic light plan for foreign travel, having already created a fourth colour for France while the minister was away. If other Tories are starting to reign in the PM’s knack for making a mess of pretty much anything he touches, we should welcome it.

    That the PM is able to lean on his old paper to get his spin into the media is a further reason why readers should be wary about trusting the Telegraph, on UK politics.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    Why ConHome polls can matter - The Sun has the story:

    BOJO’S SUNAK & HEIR Rishi Sunak is in pole position to replace Boris Johnson as Tory boss, say party members

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15761847/rishi-sunak-replace-boris-johnson-tory-party/amp/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=sunpoliticstwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    On topic, did I miss discussion of this from 31 July?

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/31/future-president-kamala-harris-now-underwater-sinking-popularity/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084

    Why ConHome polls can matter - The Sun has the story:

    BOJO’S SUNAK & HEIR Rishi Sunak is in pole position to replace Boris Johnson as Tory boss, say party members

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15761847/rishi-sunak-replace-boris-johnson-tory-party/amp/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=sunpoliticstwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

    A poor showing for HY’s favourite, there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564
    IshmaelZ said:

    On topic, did I miss discussion of this from 31 July?

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/31/future-president-kamala-harris-now-underwater-sinking-popularity/

    Would be interesting to see the comparison to other VPs using favourability and net favourability. It might be due to a lower (higher?) number of DKs, for example.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564
    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I misread the first B word as Boris and was nodding along until I read "President Harris"....
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,141

    Simon Gleave

    Head of sports analysis, Nielsen Gracenote

    Team GB's 35 medals are now six ahead of the number our pre-Olympic Virtual Medal Table forecast had at this stage.

    We have therefore adjusted our projected British medal total upwards to 58, including 16 gold medals as the number of golds is also two ahead of schedule.

    At this stage, it looks like Great Britain should finish fourth on total medals, ahead of host nation Japan.

    The current Gracenote forecast of 16 for Great Britain would almost certainly mean fifth place on the final medal table. Track cycling will probably be the key for this number to go higher to challenge the Russian Olympic Committee on golds.

    A few days back, Gracenote put out a Tweet forecasting 62 medals so that is actually a downgrade. Not sure why. Possibly to do with the track cycling given the World Records set so far
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,236

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bloody hell

    It very very definitely came from the lab. This is a minority Republican report, but I predict Biden’s official US intel report will not significantly differ. Explosive

    https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf

    the preponderance of evidence suggests SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from a Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory sometime prior to September 12, 2019. The virus, or the viral sequence that was genetically manipulated, was likely collected in a cave in Yunnan province, PRC, between 2012 and 2015. Researchers at the WIV, officials within the CCP, and potentially American citizens directly engaged in efforts to obfuscate information related to the origins of the virus and to suppress public debate of a possible lab leak.
    You're _really_ going to take a Republican staff report as a useful basis to reach a conclusion like that?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09lxjcc
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,141
    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I’m glad someone on here recognises Biden is simply unfit for the job rather than the usual “ooh, isn’t he so refreshing” view you get on this site just because he isn’t Donald Trump. He’s clearly not 100% there on any unbiased interpretation and by 2024, unless they come up with a wonder treatment, it is going to be impossible to hide.

    The Democrats realise Harris is a disaster, the problem is what to do with her. There is no doubt she wants the Presidency and, as a black woman, it is going to be very hard for anyone else to run against her, given the current identity politics view running the Democrats. Buttigieg being gay is not enough to overcome the fact he is a white male.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Bloody hell

    It very very definitely came from the lab. This is a minority Republican report, but I predict Biden’s official US intel report will not significantly differ. Explosive

    https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf

    the preponderance of evidence suggests SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from a Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory sometime prior to September 12, 2019. The virus, or the viral sequence that was genetically manipulated, was likely collected in a cave in Yunnan province, PRC, between 2012 and 2015. Researchers at the WIV, officials within the CCP, and potentially American citizens directly engaged in efforts to obfuscate information related to the origins of the virus and to suppress public debate of a possible lab leak.
    You're _really_ going to take a Republican staff report as a useful basis to reach a conclusion like that?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09lxjcc
    This bit from the executive summary of the evidence doesn’t exactly support the claims about “preponderance of evidence”.
    Athletes at the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October 2019 who became sick with symptoms similar to COVID-19 both while in Wuhan and also shortly after returning to their home countries;
    Satellite imagery of Wuhan in September and October 2019 that showed a significant uptick in the number of people at local hospitals surrounding the WIV’s headquarters, coupled with an unusually high number of patients with symptoms similar to COVID-19;…

    If Covid infection were so widespread, not only within China, but also internationally, back in October as claimed, then the course of the pandemic would very likely have been rather different.
    “Symptoms similar to COVID” also, of course, includes seasonal flu.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Leon said:

    Bloody hell

    It very very definitely came from the lab. This is a minority Republican report, but I predict Biden’s official US intel report will not significantly differ. Explosive

    https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf

    In many ways I am surprised by the current level of response by the US. They are still focused on those who operated the lab and the immediate cover up rather than seeking to hold China responsible. Covid has killed 10x more Americans than the Vietnam war. The economic costs have been even more severe too. It seems likely to me that as the evidence becomes more overwhelming that the demand to hold China to account will grow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I misread the first B word as Boris and was nodding along until I read "President Harris"....
    I am sure that @Leon explained this BDS overnight (again). Its not easy to treat, unfortunately.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. L, we shall see. That's what should happen. If it doesn't, COVID-19 will become an accidental test for China to see what it can get away with.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    I.misread the start as Boris will be 79....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    The lack of flaked parmesan was a moment of national crisis Sean, it is pointless to pretend otherwise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,284
    We are ⛵
  • IshmaelZ said:

    On topic, did I miss discussion of this from 31 July?

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/31/future-president-kamala-harris-now-underwater-sinking-popularity/

    You even missed it from earlier in this two-page thread.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564
    edited August 2021
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    The lack of flaked parmesan was a moment of national crisis Sean, it is pointless to pretend otherwise.
    More damning evidence of government incompetence. They can't even manage a strategic reserve of flaked parmesan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    MrEd said:

    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I’m glad someone on here recognises Biden is simply unfit for the job rather than the usual “ooh, isn’t he so refreshing” view you get on this site just because he isn’t Donald Trump. He’s clearly not 100% there on any unbiased interpretation and by 2024, unless they come up with a wonder treatment, it is going to be impossible to hide.

    The Democrats realise Harris is a disaster, the problem is what to do with her. There is no doubt she wants the Presidency and, as a black woman, it is going to be very hard for anyone else to run against her, given the current identity politics view running the Democrats. Buttigieg being gay is not enough to overcome the fact he is a white male.

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,079
    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    Today’s Indy editorial: Boris Johnson is about to find out what happens when a party turns on its leader

    Sadly it’s (£) so we can’t find out ourselves.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    I remember Not the Nine o'clock news taking the piss out of Reagan every week. Indeed one of their very best songs was about this: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=I+can't+believe+Reagan+is+President+song&docid=608039538129114911&mid=BCE7BD09A6EF1FBE9087BCE7BD09A6EF1FBE9087&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
  • Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,904
    Pulpstar said:

    Just seen Warholm's sub 46. Unreal

    Probably the most remarkable record since Bolt.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    Floater said:

    Someone mentioned Kamala

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1421859390106263552

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    Simon Gleave

    Head of sports analysis, Nielsen Gracenote

    Team GB's 35 medals are now six ahead of the number our pre-Olympic Virtual Medal Table forecast had at this stage.

    We have therefore adjusted our projected British medal total upwards to 58, including 16 gold medals as the number of golds is also two ahead of schedule.

    At this stage, it looks like Great Britain should finish fourth on total medals, ahead of host nation Japan.

    The current Gracenote forecast of 16 for Great Britain would almost certainly mean fifth place on the final medal table. Track cycling will probably be the key for this number to go higher to challenge the Russian Olympic Committee on golds.

    Talking of track cycling, they’ve been naughty boys:

    The design of the revolutionary Team GB Lotus x Hope track bike was stolen from a Dutch bicycle brand according to its co-founder, who plans to take legal action if British Cycling refuses to recognise its claim.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/amp/news/team-gb-lotus-x-hope-track-bike-design-stolen-claims-dutch-bike-brand
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
    Unfortunately flaked parmesan is not in stock at my local co-op, indeed it never has been as far as I can tell. They do have the powdered stuff that tasted of sawdust and smelly socks if that is any help to desperate PB parmesan hunters.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024
    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 4,141
    DavidL said:

    MrEd said:

    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I’m glad someone on here recognises Biden is simply unfit for the job rather than the usual “ooh, isn’t he so refreshing” view you get on this site just because he isn’t Donald Trump. He’s clearly not 100% there on any unbiased interpretation and by 2024, unless they come up with a wonder treatment, it is going to be impossible to hide.

    The Democrats realise Harris is a disaster, the problem is what to do with her. There is no doubt she wants the Presidency and, as a black woman, it is going to be very hard for anyone else to run against her, given the current identity politics view running the Democrats. Buttigieg being gay is not enough to overcome the fact he is a white male.

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.
    We can discuss re Trump until the cows come home. I don’t think he was perfect by any stretch of the imagination to put it mildly. However, the fact is a lot of the opposition to Trump was off his personality, not his achievements as President. No major wars, getting it right on China, tax reform and a booming economy pre-Covid were good achievements. And, as we are seeing with the debacle on the US border on immigration, he was far better than Biden on that too.

    As for Biden not being malevolent, no he is not but he is complicit in going along with a political culture that is undermining American democracy. Many on here like to point at the Republicans only when it comes to the electoral system but the Democrats are as dirty as Hell on that one too. Go to California and see the effects of Ballot Harvesting. Or let’s discuss how the Hunter Biden details were suppressed pre-election to help Joe.

    I’d agree it was a poor choice between the two but, unfortunately, that was the choice. I still think Biden was the poorer pick and nothing in his performance so far has changed that view.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
    Good morning everybody.
    I don't go shopping (some physical problems ATM) but my wife reports shortages in both our local Co-op and in both the not-too-far-away Tesco's.
    However, she says that in all three goods are spread out to provide an illusion of stock-filled shelves.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    DavidL said:

    MrEd said:

    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I’m glad someone on here recognises Biden is simply unfit for the job rather than the usual “ooh, isn’t he so refreshing” view you get on this site just because he isn’t Donald Trump. He’s clearly not 100% there on any unbiased interpretation and by 2024, unless they come up with a wonder treatment, it is going to be impossible to hide.

    The Democrats realise Harris is a disaster, the problem is what to do with her. There is no doubt she wants the Presidency and, as a black woman, it is going to be very hard for anyone else to run against her, given the current identity politics view running the Democrats. Buttigieg being gay is not enough to overcome the fact he is a white male.

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.
    We aren’t in much of a position to crow about offering voters a decent choice,though, are we?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926

    Waverley councillors have been having a course on equalities and discrimination, about which I'm sure there is the usual difference of opinion here. However, I think nearly everyone here might enjoy this TED talk which it was built around - if you can spare 18 minutes, I think you will:

    https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_ngozi_adichie_the_danger_of_a_single_story/transcript?language=en

    Adichie is also a phenomenal novelist. I love all her books but Half of a Yellow Sun, about the Biafran war, is incredible.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
    Unfortunately flaked parmesan is not in stock at my local co-op, indeed it never has been as far as I can tell. They do have the powdered stuff that tasted of sawdust and smelly socks if that is any help to desperate PB parmesan hunters.
    Some people here seem to have remarkably adventurous lives, if they have tried eating smelly socks!
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262

    IshmaelZ said:

    On topic, did I miss discussion of this from 31 July?

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/31/future-president-kamala-harris-now-underwater-sinking-popularity/

    You even missed it from earlier in this two-page thread.
    Because of the way threading works on this thread that isn't surprising a lot of people start at the most recent threads and may not hit older pages

    But it does show why Pete Buttigieg is a way better bet for President than 65/1 - especially now the infrastructure bill has been agreed so he will be front and centre as projects get started and finished.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,084
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just seen Warholm's sub 46. Unreal

    Probably the most remarkable record since Bolt.
    His finish was amazingly strong. You can see the other guy ease off in his last couple strides, once he realises he cannot win, yet that guy too beat the world record!
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 339
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    This is not just at the FDA. Medical regulators around the world have been holding back the vaccination programmes.

    They don't seem to understand the difference between a pandemic and a endemic disease, and the wider consequences for society of their decisions or lack of decisions. Politicians now need to review the medical regulators.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Waverley councillors have been having a course on equalities and discrimination, about which I'm sure there is the usual difference of opinion here. However, I think nearly everyone here might enjoy this TED talk which it was built around - if you can spare 18 minutes, I think you will:

    https://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_ngozi_adichie_the_danger_of_a_single_story/transcript?language=en

    Adichie is also a phenomenal novelist. I love all her books but Half of a Yellow Sun, about the Biafran war, is incredible.
    There is a great short story in her collection "The Thing Around Your Neck" about an African writers meeting, in which she explores how African writers are pushed into only writing of certain things.

    She indeed is a very interesting storyteller.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Bloody hell

    It very very definitely came from the lab. This is a minority Republican report, but I predict Biden’s official US intel report will not significantly differ. Explosive

    https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/ORIGINS-OF-COVID-19-REPORT.pdf

    In many ways I am surprised by the current level of response by the US. They are still focused on those who operated the lab and the immediate cover up rather than seeking to hold China responsible. Covid has killed 10x more Americans than the Vietnam war. The economic costs have been even more severe too. It seems likely to me that as the evidence becomes more overwhelming that the demand to hold China to account will grow.
    Let’s hope so. The levels of government naivety worldwide in late 2019/early 2020 were something to behold. The basic default position seemed to be that the Communist Party of China dictatorship is trustworthy. An horrific error with extremely serious consequences.

    We have been bought and sold for Chinese gold.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
    Jobs for the sons and daughters of friends is as old as jobs themselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; sometimes it's not the best way of hiring someone but sometimes it can work. Rather depends on how how up the chain the job is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    Quincel said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    You do realise that just makes him look somewhat endearing (and also Patel, FWIW)

    No one is looking at this and raging (apart from you)

    It's excellent publicity for Brand Boris. He probably staged it all
    Not sure about staging it but I watched it live and to be fair Boris handled it well and I do not think this incident did him any harm
    I'm joking about staging, but Boris has a natural comic gift. He can turn a potentially embarrassing incident into a laugh-with-me moment

    He did it with the zipwire. He made is somehow part of his shtick

    He has many many faults but a lack of showmanship is not one of them. He has an instinctive knack. And this is not unimportant, politicians can be damaged by this stuff - eg Miliband and the bacon sandwich
    I agree, he's definitely got a natural comic gift. It's just not what the country needs in a Prime Minister though, sadly.
    Particularly considering the sombre nature of the event, opening a police memorial.
    I really do not understand why people keep mentioning that - given one does not generally choose to have a brollie mishap what, exactly, should he have done once he encountered difficulty? People keep bringing it up, so presumably there's something egregiously terrible about being clumsy with an umbrella at a sombre event.
    One wonders if this sort of thing happened to other PMs a lot but it didn't match their image so the press didn't run with it, or Johnson was mucking about with the brollie some how in a way other PMs wouldn't? I agree with you though, probably just the former.
    Not a PM, but how about Boris Yeltsin?

    https://youtu.be/v9YnDirqwT4
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,690
    Mr. Dickson, indeed. Worse still is the way Germany, France etc are still so foolish on this (and we came damned close to having Huawei embedded in our 5G network and that's still something that could happen).

    The US largely seems to have woken up, and, to a lesser extent, the same's happened here. But Germany... between buying Russian gas, then attending Holocaust Memorial Events before signing up to deals with China, isn't exactly the moral leader some suggest.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The story in the US is a bit more complex than you make out. AstraZeneca filed. The FDA asked for more information. And AstraZeneca - four or five months later - has still not supplied that information.

    Should the FDA not have asked for the information? Maybe. But they did. It was AZ who decided not to supply it.

    If one had a cynical hat on, it was because it allowed AZ to sell its US-destined doses for higher prices to the rest of the world.

    For the record, I don't see how Trump being President would have made any different whatsoever to this.
    The doses that, under the terms of their licence, they are selling at cost?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
    Unfortunately flaked parmesan is not in stock at my local co-op, indeed it never has been as far as I can tell. They do have the powdered stuff that tasted of sawdust and smelly socks if that is any help to desperate PB parmesan hunters.
    I recently noticed that Lidl sell vegan grated ‘Parmesan’ made largely of coconut oil. My curiosity wasn’t piqued enough to make a purchase.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,056

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    fpt for foxy

    I'm not gonna argue with you about Brexit. Enough for now. We can never agree. For me the sovereignty and democracy arguments trump the others, for you they don't. In the end there is no true answer, it is a matter of personal disposition

    But I am going to argue with the idea that UK has a higher Covid death rate than the EU

    Here's the Economist list of Covid Excess Deaths

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    There are 14 EU countries with higher death rates than the UK, including big countries like Spain, Poland and Italy. So we are behind most EU countries, If you take all of Europe - is that what you meant? - the UK is even further down the list

    I tried to tell this to a lefty friend of mine the other day: that the UK death rate, while depressing, is not uniquely grim. He wasn't having it. "No, Britain has the worst death rate in the world!". It is some weird untrue meme which has got lodged in people's heads - it was true for about four days in January - yet it still clings on, despite ample proof that it is very wrong.

    Proof is based on data and who needs that when you have faith.

    Its similar to the bizarre obsession that there is a shortage of food in the supermarkets.

    Or how the "there will be mass unemployment" morphed into "there's a labour shortage".

    Straight out of Orwell - Oceania is at war with Eurasia morphs into Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
    I can't say that I've experienced any difficulty buying food lately.

    And, I'm old enough to remember when low unemployment was considered a deseirable thing.
    I've not seen any food shortages since yesterday. Since most of us shop in one store, once a week, it is quite possible not to have been personally affected. Most of the problems are of distribution, rather than supply or panic buying, so it is likely that even if you can't buy flaked parmesan in one shop, it will be in stock next door.
    Unfortunately flaked parmesan is not in stock at my local co-op, indeed it never has been as far as I can tell. They do have the powdered stuff that tasted of sawdust and smelly socks if that is any help to desperate PB parmesan hunters.
    Some people here seem to have remarkably adventurous lives, if they have tried eating smelly socks!
    I'm pleased to say Waitrose have an ample supply of Parmesan in big blocks. Little sign of shortages other than the normal low stock of some items after a busy day, probably because it's a town centre store and they are not allowed to have deliveries on Sunday. The one section that has been low for months, however, is the tinned fish section with some products going out of stock for weeks, annoyingly the sardines in olive oil which I rather like.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,262
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Trump has $100m that allows him to run again - and he needs to at least start running again to pocket some of that for himself.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    Tbf to the FDA, it's AZ holding it up. They haven't yet applied for approval, set to do so some time around early September.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    Another sailing gold.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    eek said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Trump has $100m that allows him to run again - and he needs to at least start running again to pocket some of that for himself.
    Won't he need it to pay his outstanding taxes?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The story in the US is a bit more complex than you make out. AstraZeneca filed. The FDA asked for more information. And AstraZeneca - four or five months later - has still not supplied that information.

    Should the FDA not have asked for the information? Maybe. But they did. It was AZ who decided not to supply it.

    If one had a cynical hat on, it was because it allowed AZ to sell its US-destined doses for higher prices to the rest of the world.

    For the record, I don't see how Trump being President would have made any different whatsoever to this.
    The doses that, under the terms of their licence, they are selling at cost?
    And the US has blocked the export of?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    Tbf to the FDA, it's AZ holding it up. They haven't yet applied for approval, set to do so some time around early September.
    What's the hold up?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    edited August 2021
    Morning all. What a vigorous morning on PB.

    Interesting little piece about corruption in Liverpool from Lib Dem Voice. Mentions a sum of £950 per citizen wasted over time (which is quite a lot - ~half a year of normal Council Tax?), partly from non-collection of Developer contributions.

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/from-eu-capital-of-culture-to-uk-capital-of-corruption-68322.html

    The report mentioned - Calder Report - is here:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976197/Liverpool_Best_Value_inspection_report.pdf

    Calder has a sense of humour:
    "The position documented by the Inspection provides the best empirical evidence of Conquest’s Third Law of Politics ‘The behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies."

    Getting my own mini-twitter dogpile this morning, 'cos I agreed with Lord Digby Jones about pronouncing hanging gs. What fun.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    True but the two roles are hardly equivalent. Boris is not just hiring his old chum from the Buller, he is hiring him to judge whether it is appropriate to hire him, amongst other charges of sleaze against the government and Boris himself.

    And the government has confirmed Boris did have the final say.
    It's just how these people operate. They all know each other and give each other jobs. Britain is an oligarchy. If you're not in the club, you really are not coming in.
    The one Old Etonian that I know reasonably well works for another Old Etonian. I went to a comprehensive school and I have always found it much easier to find work abroad or in firms in the UK run by foreigners with an international workforce. Anyone who thinks this country is anything approaching a meritocracy is nuts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    eek said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Trump has $100m that allows him to run again - and he needs to at least start running again to pocket some of that for himself.
    Won't he need it to pay his outstanding taxes?
    Not if they’re donations for a political campaign.

    That would be illegal, and as we know, when it comes to money Trump would never do anything that might in any way illegal or unethical.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,144

    True but the two roles are hardly equivalent. Boris is not just hiring his old chum from the Buller, he is hiring him to judge whether it is appropriate to hire him, amongst other charges of sleaze against the government and Boris himself.

    And the government has confirmed Boris did have the final say.

    Take Back Control
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,968
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Trump has $100m that allows him to run again - and he needs to at least start running again to pocket some of that for himself.
    Won't he need it to pay his outstanding taxes?
    Not if they’re donations for a political campaign.

    That would be illegal, and as we know, when it comes to money Trump would never do anything that might in any way illegal or unethical.
    Yes; silly me. Should have thought of that. Of course, you're right!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,612
    More trouble from Belarus - missing activist found hanged:

    Vitaly Shishov was found dead this morning. His body was hanged on a tree. Ukrainian police opened an investigation under Article 115 (premeditated murder). They believe it may be a murder disguised as a suicide. Shishov was the head of organisation helping Belarusians in exile

    https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1422449141125423106?s=20
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 6,926
    Scott_xP said:

    True but the two roles are hardly equivalent. Boris is not just hiring his old chum from the Buller, he is hiring him to judge whether it is appropriate to hire him, amongst other charges of sleaze against the government and Boris himself.

    And the government has confirmed Boris did have the final say.

    Take Back Control
    Big fish, small pond. Keep the foreigners out to protect the chumocracy's closed shop.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    Tbf to the FDA, it's AZ holding it up. They haven't yet applied for approval, set to do so some time around early September.
    What's the hold up?
    Not sure, you'd need to ask AZ.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    MrEd said:

    DavidL said:

    MrEd said:

    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    I’m glad someone on here recognises Biden is simply unfit for the job rather than the usual “ooh, isn’t he so refreshing” view you get on this site just because he isn’t Donald Trump. He’s clearly not 100% there on any unbiased interpretation and by 2024, unless they come up with a wonder treatment, it is going to be impossible to hide.

    The Democrats realise Harris is a disaster, the problem is what to do with her. There is no doubt she wants the Presidency and, as a black woman, it is going to be very hard for anyone else to run against her, given the current identity politics view running the Democrats. Buttigieg being gay is not enough to overcome the fact he is a white male.

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.
    We can discuss re Trump until the cows come home. I don’t think he was perfect by any stretch of the imagination to put it mildly. However, the fact is a lot of the opposition to Trump was off his personality, not his achievements as President. No major wars, getting it right on China, tax reform and a booming economy pre-Covid were good achievements. And, as we are seeing with the debacle on the US border on immigration, he was far better than Biden on that too.

    As for Biden not being malevolent, no he is not but he is complicit in going along with a political culture that is undermining American democracy. Many on here like to point at the Republicans only when it comes to the electoral system but the Democrats are as dirty as Hell on that one too. Go to California and see the effects of Ballot Harvesting. Or let’s discuss how the Hunter Biden details were suppressed pre-election to help Joe.

    I’d agree it was a poor choice between the two but, unfortunately, that was the choice. I still think Biden was the poorer pick and nothing in his performance so far has changed that view.
    Absolute cack.
    Your boy and his enablers tried to overturn democracy completely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,738

    More trouble from Belarus - missing activist found hanged:

    Vitaly Shishov was found dead this morning. His body was hanged on a tree. Ukrainian police opened an investigation under Article 115 (premeditated murder). They believe it may be a murder disguised as a suicide. Shishov was the head of organisation helping Belarusians in exile

    https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1422449141125423106?s=20

    Lukashenko seems to be getting even more vicious at the moment. I wonder if he’s under pressure to quit from within his own government?

    Although it has to be said that would make little difference to Belarus as a whole, sadly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    fox327 said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    This is not just at the FDA. Medical regulators around the world have been holding back the vaccination programmes.

    They don't seem to understand the difference between a pandemic and a endemic disease, and the wider consequences for society of their decisions or lack of decisions. Politicians now need to review the medical regulators.
    Problem is that the politicians are in the main unqualified to do so. The danger is that they make things far worse rather than better - look at Trump and his eccentricities. There is much to be said for an entrenched regulatory system which evolves over time.

    And as far as the FDA is concerned, don't forget that the head requires Senate confirmation - and changes would have to get through Congress.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661
    MattW said:

    Morning all. What a vigorous morning on PB.

    Interesting little piece about corruption in Liverpool from Lib Dem Voice. Mentions a sum of £950 per citizen wasted over time (which is quite a lot - ~half a year of normal Council Tax?), partly from non-collection of Developer contributions.

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/from-eu-capital-of-culture-to-uk-capital-of-corruption-68322.html

    The report mentioned - Calder Report - is here:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976197/Liverpool_Best_Value_inspection_report.pdf

    Calder has a sense of humour:
    "The position documented by the Inspection provides the best empirical evidence of Conquest’s Third Law of Politics ‘The behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies."

    Getting my own mini-twitter dogpile this morning, 'cos I agreed with Lord Digby Jones about pronouncing hanging gs. What fun.

    What we need is PR for local elections in some form. There are simply too many one party states across the land with no serious opposition scrutiny.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Trump has $100m that allows him to run again - and he needs to at least start running again to pocket some of that for himself.
    Won't he need it to pay his outstanding taxes?
    Not if they’re donations for a political campaign.

    That would be illegal, and as we know, when it comes to money Trump would never do anything that might in any way illegal or unethical.
    I'm not sure - the small print allows him a very large amount of leeway indeed with recent donations; they certainly aren't limited to a Presidential campaign.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,148
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all. What a vigorous morning on PB.

    Interesting little piece about corruption in Liverpool from Lib Dem Voice. Mentions a sum of £950 per citizen wasted over time (which is quite a lot - ~half a year of normal Council Tax?), partly from non-collection of Developer contributions.

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/from-eu-capital-of-culture-to-uk-capital-of-corruption-68322.html

    The report mentioned - Calder Report - is here:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976197/Liverpool_Best_Value_inspection_report.pdf

    Calder has a sense of humour:
    "The position documented by the Inspection provides the best empirical evidence of Conquest’s Third Law of Politics ‘The behaviour of any bureaucratic organisation can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies."

    Getting my own mini-twitter dogpile this morning, 'cos I agreed with Lord Digby Jones about pronouncing hanging gs. What fun.

    What we need is PR for local elections in some form. There are simply too many one party states across the land with no serious opposition scrutiny.
    LibDems should make this a condition of supporting Starmer in any kind of minority Lab government in 2023/4. No messing this time with promises of a referendum like AV.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,015

    Another sailing gold.

    And a WR for the cyclists in qualifying.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 33,263
    Nigelb said:

    Another sailing gold.

    And a WR for the cyclists in qualifying.
    Topped very slightly by the Germans in the next qualifier! Will be a very tight final. Looks like Team GB definitely sandbagged yesterday, hopefully the men were too.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,762
    Afghan government military spokesman on R4 just now saying the Taliban can’t take Lashkar Gah because too many of them are being killed. Shades of Vietnam body counts and the damn VC can’t win because we’re killing them all.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 6,474

    Mr. Dickson, indeed. Worse still is the way Germany, France etc are still so foolish on this (and we came damned close to having Huawei embedded in our 5G network and that's still something that could happen).

    The US largely seems to have woken up, and, to a lesser extent, the same's happened here. But Germany... between buying Russian gas, then attending Holocaust Memorial Events before signing up to deals with China, isn't exactly the moral leader some suggest.

    Lots of states are doing it, not least in Africa.

    Sweden, especially western Sweden - centred on Gothenburg - has very broad and deep commercial connections with China. Symbolised by the huge Volvo Cars deal, but that is merely the tip of an iceberg.

    It causes serious problems for the politicians in Stockholm, who bravely try to confront China on a wide range of issues.

    The Gothenburgers try to defend themselves by saying that they only deal with private companies, not the state itself. A partially successful strategy to date.

    A little introduction in English here:

    https://scandasia.com/china-has-major-economic-interests-in-sweden-but-trade-is-not-unproblematic/

    For the uninitiated, Gothenburg has always, from day one (1621), been about making cash, so the current popularity of Chinese deals is unsurprising. It is only the latest in a long list of dubious, but highly lucrative, activities over the past four centuries.

    Stockholm by contrast is for the nobility and monarch, whereas Uppsala and Lund are for academia and the church. Malmö is just one of the crappier suburbs of Copenhagen. The rest of the country is forests and hillbillies.

    There, you’ve had Sweden in a wildly unfair nutshell. Don’t say PB isn’t good value.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446

    Floater said:

    Someone mentioned Kamala

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1421859390106263552

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    Another reason to think Biden will run again even if they have to pickle him in formaldehyde and wiggle his arms around with strings. He's not going to want to leave the Dems with a lemon, especially if it risks letting Trump back in.
    :lol:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    True but the two roles are hardly equivalent. Boris is not just hiring his old chum from the Buller, he is hiring him to judge whether it is appropriate to hire him, amongst other charges of sleaze against the government and Boris himself.

    And the government has confirmed Boris did have the final say.
    Actually, the Corbyn situation is worse: the new guy in the anti-sleaze watchdog had had a career outside of politics. Seb Corbyn ins an insider's insider. Aged 23, worked on his dad's campaign. Then went to work for his dad's best mate. Zero life experience outside of Cambridge and ultra-left politics.

    And this from a party who got het up about MP's employing family, only to dodge it by getting their best mate's to employ their family. It's more than a little hypocritical.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,831
    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Regan was considered a monster by a large chunk of the world.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
    You should be angry about it when it occurs on the left, because of the utter hypocrisy it reveals. There is a 'chumocracy' alive and well on the left of politics, as there is on the right.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446

    IshmaelZ said:

    On topic, did I miss discussion of this from 31 July?

    Kamala Harris has become the most unpopular US vice president six months into an administration since at least the 1970s, according to polls.

    Alarmed Democrat strategists are grappling with the Vice President's floundering poll numbers which show she is now "underwater," meaning more Americans disapprove, than approve, of her job performance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/31/future-president-kamala-harris-now-underwater-sinking-popularity/

    You even missed it from earlier in this two-page thread.
    OK, but general fail by the site to miss it for 2 days given its electoral heft.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    edited August 2021

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
    Jobs for the sons and daughters of friends is as old as jobs themselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; sometimes it's not the best way of hiring someone but sometimes it can work. Rather depends on how how up the chain the job is.
    That's the Indy. And there seems to be not a shred of actual evidence of malpractice.

    Has anyone provided any evidence that Johnson had a corrupt role in the process, or how the process worked such that Johnson could manipulate it? Or that the member appointed is unfit to be on the Committee or is corrupt?

    Or is this just Hoof-in-Mouth Rayner howling at the moon because it is Tuesday and she still does not have anything to say?

    "You were in a student club with him 35 years ago" is some way beyond farfetched.

    The only possible chink I can see is if the PM is supplied with say 50 names, from which he then gets to choose who he wants, and that would still require a lot more evidence that we have.

    It's quite a dangerous argument to make because it shrinks the pool of acceptable candidates - 'No, you went to the same school when you were six!" - and undermines the expectation of personal integrity.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,435
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just seen Warholm's sub 46. Unreal

    Probably the most remarkable record since Bolt.
    I think that record will last 30 years at least, a truly amazing time.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,024

    Afghan government military spokesman on R4 just now saying the Taliban can’t take Lashkar Gah because too many of them are being killed. Shades of Vietnam body counts and the damn VC can’t win because we’re killing them all.

    Rory Stewart's book on his travels through Afghanistan are a must-read IMO. One takeaway is that it is exceptionally difficult for us westerners to understand the worldview of the remote villagers and tribes. This is made worse by the fact that the NGOs are all in Kabul and the other large cities, whose inhabitants are often largely unaware of life in the provinces. Therefore Kabul becomes an echo-chamber of the way people want Afghanistan to be, rather than the way it is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Places_in_Between
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,715
    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.
    Macron is quoted as saying it was pretty much ineffective for old people, which isn't at all what I'm saying and doesn't seem to check out. But from the point of view of a country that already has Moderna and Pfizer, it seems, on available evidence, substantially less effective. Are you disagreeing with that, or are you just complaining that I said "shittier" rather than "less effective"?
  • Good morning

    If is not covid it looks like extraordinary Mediterranean temperatures (45+) and fires are creating problems for holidaymakers
  • RobDRobD Posts: 56,564
    Current tally: 13, 13, 13.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,691
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.

    Moonshine is wrong in thinking it’s the Biden administration’s role to approve pharmaceuticals, and it would have all kinds of negative consequences were it to try to do so, but it’s increasingly clear (and not just over the vaccines) that there is a failure of leadership at the FDA. Sorting that out will not be a quick matter.
    Tbf to the FDA, it's AZ holding it up. They haven't yet applied for approval, set to do so some time around early September.
    What's the hold up?
    Not sure, you'd need to ask AZ.
    I am not at all sure that AZ has gone back into production in the USA, since the US Govt gave the entire shared plant to J&J. Has it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    Alistair said:

    spudgfsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Getting rid of Trump was important, a point that I think you are reluctant to accept. His behaviour in respect of the invasion of the Capitol and his subsequent attempts to undermine the democratic process demonstrate per adventure that Americans were absolutely right to vote for Biden in overwhelming numbers. Even if he is increasingly senile he is not malevolent, dangerous and delusionary paranoid like Trump.

    Hell of a poor choice though. Surely America can do better than this.

    The outside world rarely has a good opinion of the POTUS (Obama and Reagan excepted). Not being Trump was enough last year and unless Trump is running again (which I doubt will actually happen) it won't be enough in 2024.
    Regan was considered a monster by a large chunk of the world.
    JFK would have been a better example. Reagan was never that popular outside the US and conservative circles, certainly in western Europe Clinton or even Bush Snr were better regarded
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,661

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
    You should be angry about it when it occurs on the left, because of the utter hypocrisy it reveals. There is a 'chumocracy' alive and well on the left of politics, as there is on the right.
    I have been!
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,435

    Nigelb said:

    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On the topic of incompetence and excess deaths, how many excess deaths do we think the whole AZN smearing debacle will actually cause? Looking at you Macron and Mr 8%.

    Not so many, judging by the (rather impressive) French vaccination performance.

    Which is not to diminish the criminal stupidity of Macron's comments.
    That doesn't tell you much. They suspended vaccination for an entire week if memory serves. The number now is almost irrelevant.
    I'm sure the number could be estimated quite well, based on the increased risk to those whose vaccination was delayed for a period, plus the number who were put off having a jab altogether (although the willingness in France to be vaccinated has I believe gone up overall since Macron's comments).
    Then you have to add the knock-on effect of all this negative publicity on take-up around the world, especially in countries relying on COVAX. In the end we'll never know for certain, as we won't know what the take-up rates would have been without this unfortunate episode.

    The most remarkable thing is that AZN and Pfizer have very similar safety profiles, and yet 99% of the negative coverage is on AZN.
    Also remarkable that AZN is still not approved in the US.
    This is in some ways an even worse fuck up than Macron’s comments. Azn is supposed to be the work horse of the world so the reticence to hold back approval in America is causing incalculable damage, given how much smaller countries pay attention to the US regulator. Compounded of course by the pig headedness of not at least giving it an exception status for foreigners visiting the US who have had it. And finally all the doses they had sitting there for months in fridges.

    Had Trump overseen this, we’d never heard the end of it. I’m increasingly sure Biden’s term will go down as the worst they’ve ever had. Perhaps until Trump #2 next time!
    The American regulator is responsible for American healthcare, not sending a message to some unspecified small country. The US has sufficient supply of the best vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna), so what's the emergency that would justify emergency-use approval of a shittier one?
    First, there is now more than sufficient data for the FDA to have fully approved all the major vaccines.
    Secondly, referring to AZN as “a shittier one” is precisely the sort of stupidity folks like Macron have engaged in.
    Macron is quoted as saying it was pretty much ineffective for old people, which isn't at all what I'm saying and doesn't seem to check out. But from the point of view of a country that already has Moderna and Pfizer, it seems, on available evidence, substantially less effective. Are you disagreeing with that, or are you just complaining that I said "shittier" rather than "less effective"?
    For the booster jabs in the UK there is still some doubt whether those who had AZN will need one as its effectiveness keeps building ,whereas those who had Pfizer will definitely need one. So I am not sure that AZN will be considered to be less effective than Pfizer in a years time.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,446
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What an extraordinary coincidence that the best person to be on the anti-sleaze watchdog just happened to be an old chum of Johnsons from his Bullingdon Club days.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-sleaze-committee-standards-public-life-b1895212.html

    That is wrong IMO.

    However, I remember some Corbyn fans on here defending McDonnell employing Corbyn's son in a taxpayer-funded role. By an astonishing coincidence, the son of his best bud was the best candidate for the job.

    (Hint, he wasn't.)

    If we want to stop people hiring friends, family and chums to roles, especially to taxpayer-funded roles, then it needs to apply equally to all.
    I don't think I have ever defended cronyism in the Labour Party either.

    The nepotism and Chumocracy does show how illusory "taking back control" was.
    Jobs for the sons and daughters of friends is as old as jobs themselves. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't; sometimes it's not the best way of hiring someone but sometimes it can work. Rather depends on how how up the chain the job is.
    That's the Indy. And there seems to be not a shred of actual evidence of malpractice.

    Has anyone provided any evidence that Johnson had a corrupt role in the process, or how the process worked such that Johnson could manipulate it? Or that the member appointed is unfit to be on the Committee or is corrupt?

    Or is this just Hoof-in-Mouth Rayner howling at the moon because it is Tuesday and she still does not have anything to say?

    "You were in a student club with him 35 years ago" is some way beyond farfetched.

    The only possible chink I can see is if the PM is supplied with say 50 names, from which he then gets to choose who he wants, and that would still require a lot more evidence that we have.

    It's quite a dangerous argument to make because it shrinks the pool of acceptable candidates - 'No, you went to the same school when you were six!" - and undermines the expectation of personal integrity.
    Read it. 173 applicants, appointment made by the government after scrutiny by advisory panel. So exactly the scenario yield accept would stink, but about 3 and a half times worse. And a 20 person dining club at University is not equivalent to same school when you were six.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,646
    DavidL said:

    I really don't believe that Biden will serve his whole term. He has moved on from incoherent to blithering idiot. No doubt he still has lucid moments but he is, in my view, not currently fit for the office he holds. So by 2024 I think we will have President Harris. If she's smart she will bring in Buttigieg as her VP and thus remove the risk of a challenge. He is so much more articulate than anyone I have seen on the American political scene since Bill Clinton was in his pomp.

    If it is President Harris then there is a strong chance it will be hello again President Trump in 2024, as has been posted her approval ratings are abysmal compared to Biden.

    She would be Hillary 2 and Trump would love to run against her
This discussion has been closed.