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BoJo’s Tories are arguably more vulnerable to the LDs at the next election than LAB – politicalbetti

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 21 in General
imageBoJo’s Tories are arguably more vulnerable to the LDs at the next election than LAB – politicalbetting.com

Thanks to the excellent Election Maps site for the list of LD targets. It has produced charts like the above for all the parties based on what happened at GE2019.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 6,739
    good, but could the LDs define themselves a bit more so I know what I'd be voting for?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 1,960
    Another Boris is in trouble thread
  • Guildford, Winchester are easy money for LD gains
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,136
    FPT...
    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 62,763
    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    - ”PB regular swill”

    The PB Herd becomes the PB Drove.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 10,449

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Gove and Vlad?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 29,568

    Guildford, Winchester are easy money for LD gains

    Finchley and Golders Green too. Would need for Boris to go and Rishi to win and bring working age people back into the Tory fold again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    4. England loses its weapons of mass destruction.

    5. Rest of planet breathes a sigh of relief that the infants have had their toy drum removed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885
    edited July 21

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The GIUK gap will have to be renamed the GIS gap.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIUK_gap
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885
    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    There's a belief that Gove thinks the Unionists can win Indyref2 before 2024.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 58,366
    What proportion of ABC1 Remainers voted Tory in 2019?

    Is Johnson being rated at Minus 44% with them a swing from the last General Election, or is it already baked into the pre-existing figures?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 547
    IshmaelZ said:

    good, but could the LDs define themselves a bit more so I know what I'd be voting for?

    It's all about "localism" these days, isn't it? That's code for "whatever will get the candidate elected".

    I'm not saying that's a bad strategy, just difficult to execute in a national election.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    PM Gove. Ho ho. Those Scottish sub-samples will make for hilarious data inputs for FUDHY’s Baxter calculations.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    There's a belief that Gove thinks the Unionists can win Indyref2 before 2024.
    So the plan is to push for a referendum asap.

    Well it's a plan but not one I would be implementing - I can just see too many ways in which Indy wins.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,136
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    … and Scots.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    There's a belief that Gove thinks the Unionists can win Indyref2 before 2024.
    … but but but FUDHY says that we won’t be getting an indyref til the year 3725, and even then only under martial law.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 94,885

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    PM Gove. Ho ho. Those Scottish sub-samples will make for hilarious data inputs for FUDHY’s Baxter calculations.
    Well the clueless wonders are in for a shock eh?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 31,829

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    4. England loses its weapons of mass destruction.

    5. Rest of planet breathes a sigh of relief that the infants have had their toy drum removed.
    That's just bile.
    On the list of things that keep the RotW awake at night, the UK's possession of nuclear weapons figures very low indeed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 29,865

    What proportion of ABC1 Remainers voted Tory in 2019?

    Is Johnson being rated at Minus 44% with them a swing from the last General Election, or is it already baked into the pre-existing figures?

    Bonjour.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 8,766
    IshmaelZ said:

    good, but could the LDs define themselves a bit more so I know what I'd be voting for?

    They need to know who you are, first...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 3,936
    Far more likely they will end up in a telephone box. Pro remain =curtains...
    ..
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 3,936

    Another Boris is in trouble thread

    Oh so.predictable...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    4. England loses its weapons of mass destruction.

    5. Rest of planet breathes a sigh of relief that the infants have had their toy drum removed.
    That's just bile.
    On the list of things that keep the RotW awake at night, the UK's possession of nuclear weapons figures very low indeed.
    Haters gotta hate.

    But "joyous & civic" (sic) Scottish Nationalism is so much better than anyone else's nationalism...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 547
    That said, if the LDs ran a campaign targeted *solely* at about 25 of those seats, plus defence of their existing 12, they could pick up a fair few of them. With a couple of "plucky outsiders" getting in (and withstand a couple of disappointing losses), they could be at maybe 25-35 MPs which is a much better place than they are currently.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    eek said:

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    There's a belief that Gove thinks the Unionists can win Indyref2 before 2024.
    So the plan is to push for a referendum asap.

    Well it's a plan but not one I would be implementing - I can just see too many ways in which Indy wins.
    Shhh!

    Michael Gove is a genius. He’s world champ in 5D chess. He’ll win IndyRef2 easy peasy. Now, where does he get hold of Anas and Cole-Hamilton for the first BetterTogether2 photie?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 12,415

    What proportion of ABC1 Remainers voted Tory in 2019?

    Is Johnson being rated at Minus 44% with them a swing from the last General Election, or is it already baked into the pre-existing figures?

    ABC1 in general voted 45% Conservative in 2019, exactly in line with the overall result. And Remain supporters voted 20% Conservative overall. Can you deduce how ABC1 Remainers voted from those figures? Not sure.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2019-election
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    edited July 21
    Got to say in the light of TSE's post https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/20/michael-gove-has-extraordinary-gift-politicians-can-look-awe/ makes interesting reading.

    Long answers for everything except about Boris which went

    Baroness Suttie (Lib Dem) asked him how important it was for the PM to “play a full and active role” in dealing with the first ministers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Very, followed by Yes and Very when pushed further.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 29,568

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    … and Scots.
    ... and people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 31,829
    Interesting fusion technology, which generates electricity directly from the fusion process:
    https://www.eetimes.com/helion-energy-achieves-key-fusion-milestone/

    At first glance, it looks considerably more practicable than others approaches.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    If we’re dissolving a Union of equals, then we’ll be taking our share of the national debt.

    If we’re leaving the UK, you can keep your own debt.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    I was going to make a comment about the "revelation" but won't. Its already out there.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 10,449

    What proportion of ABC1 Remainers voted Tory in 2019?

    Is Johnson being rated at Minus 44% with them a swing from the last General Election, or is it already baked into the pre-existing figures?

    Pretty sure there will be plenty who voted to keep Corbyn out but would vote LD/Lab with Starmer in charge if they still dont like the Tory leader in 2023/4.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    The same way that any country enters the EU / Eurozone. The EU adopts the rules as a future target rather than an absolute.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    PM Gove. Ho ho. Those Scottish sub-samples will make for hilarious data inputs for FUDHY’s Baxter calculations.
    Well the clueless wonders are in for a shock eh?
    So, you’re a big fan of PM Gove’s IndyRef2 2023 plan?
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    FPT if you didn't see it:
    Gnud said:

    I've now watched the Dominic Cummings interview.

    1. His hand was near his mouth for most of the time he was speaking. You don't have to know much about body language to know what that means.

    2. The most important bit, the bit that gets to the core of what he is all about, was when he said that when "you’re trying to do very hard things", like dealing with "war and terrorism and things like that", "we should be very very aggressively trying to get into position these very rare people who are times 100 or times 1000 smarter, more able than the norm into those crucial positions".

    3. If you just want some amusement, try the part where he says that MPs should take matters into their own hands. Yeah, right.

    Laura Kuenssberg asks him who the "we" are and he replies "a few dozen".
    The interview wouldn't have been much different had he written the questions himself.
    The transcript is here.

    The key ideas of the "we" are twofold:

    *******************
    * there's a genetic super-elite
    * the genetic super-elite are super-needed, because humanity is at high risk of super-trouble.
    *******************

    On the risk of super-trouble, see the Global Challenges Foundation, the Future of Humanity Institute (Oxford, connected to the Centre for Effective Altruism), the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (Cambridge), etc.

    Mostly the "EA" scene is composed of young male turds who believe that many previously unsolved problems can be solved in the blink of an eye by brilliant geniuses such as themselves, and who are so busy at their keyboards they rarely even see daylight, let alone attract any female interest, plus a small number of older men who manage to arrange lucrative pop-sci book contracts having crafted some buzzphrases and then spread them around at dinner parties. Closer to the core are a few billionaires who love hearing that "some people alive now" will live forever or at least for another 500 or 1000 years. See people like Laszlo Szombatfalvy and Peter Thiel.

    I shall read Toby Ord's book "Precipice" in which he says there's a 1 in 6 chance that human society will fall off a cliff before 2100, mainly because I'm intrigued as to what preparations might be being made by certain insane billionaires for "if it happens". The concept of "existential risk" has been crafted to allow for the possible survival of a few. Their plans for "bugging out" will be very different from those of most "preppers".
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 3,388

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Have to wonder what Rishi has done that's so terrible.

    As for PM Gove, as Jim Hacker's Chief Whip put it- who is suitable for the job? The only way to find out is to suck it and see.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 814
    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    edited July 21

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    There's a belief that Gove thinks the Unionists can win Indyref2 before 2024.
    Gove has just said he 'will be enjoying his retirement' before Westminster permits another independence referendum.

    Personally I would be very happy with PM Gove, have met him once and he is very polite and probably the most intelligent and articulate Cabinet minister but unfortunately he has to get past the voters and they have decided they don't like him. Labour would be cuck a hoop if Gove not Sunak replaced Boris as PM
    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/3326218/michael-gove-ill-be-enjoying-my-retirement-before-indyref2/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    4. England loses its weapons of mass destruction.

    5. Rest of planet breathes a sigh of relief that the infants have had their toy drum removed.
    That's just bile.
    On the list of things that keep the RotW awake at night, the UK's possession of nuclear weapons figures very low indeed.
    Just what PB needed, another expert on what RotW thinks.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,136
    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    The same way Greece did and for the same reasons.

    By fiddling the rules because The European Project is spiritually and emotionally incomplete without them.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    good, but could the LDs define themselves a bit more so I know what I'd be voting for?

    They need to know who you are, first...
    Lib Dem manifesto: We have a bridge to sell you!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 12,415
    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    Yes the Tories need a major refresh within the next 18 months or so.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,045
    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    Probably similar to the UK one?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    4. England loses its weapons of mass destruction.

    5. Rest of planet breathes a sigh of relief that the infants have had their toy drum removed.
    That's just bile.
    On the list of things that keep the RotW awake at night, the UK's possession of nuclear weapons figures very low indeed.
    Haters gotta hate.

    But "joyous & civic" (sic) Scottish Nationalism is so much better than anyone else's nationalism...
    Yes, you BritNat’s are renowned for your humanity and compassion, like using taxpayers’ money to buy weapons for the mass murder of women, children and other civilians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    edited July 21
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    It only takes one English Nationalist PM and that would go for Ireland as well as Scotland, even more likely for Scotland as after a very bitter divorce and led by the SNP it would not be somewhere an English PM would be desperate to send RAF pilots to potentially risk their lives to defend if it was not obliged to as a fellow NATO member
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.
    Time to emigrate if Cummings rides back into No 10 with Gove.

    Kuenssberg is such a f***ing patsy. Otherwise she would have asked questions such as

    "What positions are your 'few dozen' in already?"

    "Do you have anyone in the cabinet for example?

    "Are you all British?"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 10,449

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Have to wonder what Rishi has done that's so terrible.

    As for PM Gove, as Jim Hacker's Chief Whip put it- who is suitable for the job? The only way to find out is to suck it and see.
    Whats Sunak done thats terrible? From Gove's perspective simply be ahead of him in the next leadership betting.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,570

    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    If we’re dissolving a Union of equals, then we’ll be taking our share of the national debt.

    If we’re leaving the UK, you can keep your own debt.
    The UK should take the debt, it would amount to about a 12% rise, so quite serviceable. But if the UK did that what do you think you are going to get in any negotiations?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    Among adults

    English antibody prevalence estimates from the ONS

    Week beginning May 3: 75.9%
    Week beginning May 17: 80.3%
    Week beginning June 7: 86.6%
    Week beginning June 14: 89.8%
    Week beginning June 28: 91.9%

    https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1417785998222692354?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 11,122
    Andy_JS said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    Yes the Tories need a major refresh within the next 18 months or so.
    New bottle, same dreary wine.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 49,939
    Oh Goody "Two Brains" Burgon is on first:

    https://twitter.com/PARLYapp/status/1417787390438092802?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    It only takes one English Nationalist PM and that would go for Ireland as well as Scotland, even more likely for Scotland after a very bitter divorce and led by the SNP would not be somewhere an English PM would be desperate to send RAF pilots to potentially risk their lives to defend if it was not obliged to as a fellow NATO member
    So you haven't read the article to see why we do it.... Not that I'm surprised...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 3,684
    edited July 21

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.


  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.


    The answer to part 1 is to ensure the final part of the question regarding where the children live is never brought up...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.


    Davey has ruled out LD backing for indyref2 even with the SNP Holyood majority, so for Starmer to not only agree to but be able to allow indyref2 it would need a Labour, SNP, PC and SDLP and Green combined majority without the need for the LDs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-54325592
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 4,012
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    … and Scots.
    ... and people.
    He does however appeal to glove puppets.



  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,079
    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    I'm first in line to be impervious to the charms of the Gover but I'm mildly intrigued by the voters of Surrey Heath; do they back him in spite of his Govieness 'cos he's a Con, or does he have some personal following? He increased his majority every GE from 2005 except interestingly the last one which I suppose was the great efflorescence of English nationalism.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 2,518
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting fusion technology, which generates electricity directly from the fusion process:
    https://www.eetimes.com/helion-energy-achieves-key-fusion-milestone/

    At first glance, it looks considerably more practicable than others approaches.

    Using the movement of the plasma to generate electricity through induction is certainly a novel approach. The idea does seem plausible unlike, as you say, most other approaches. However, you're still going to have the problems of irradiation of the containment vessel and the need to remove large amounts of heat.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,079

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    good, but could the LDs define themselves a bit more so I know what I'd be voting for?

    They need to know who you are, first...
    Lib Dem manifesto: We have a bridge to sell you!
    Now that would be shameless theft of BJ's policies.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 12,415
    "Liverpool stripped of Unesco World Heritage status

    Liverpool has been stripped of its World Heritage status because of developments on the city's waterfront. The decision was made following a secret ballot by the Unesco committee at a meeting in China. Unesco had previously warned that the developments, which include Everton FC's new stadium, had resulted in "irreversible loss of attributes". The decision was described as "incomprehensible" by Liverpool Mayor Joanne Anderson."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57879475
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 86,002
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    It only takes one English Nationalist PM and that would go for Ireland as well as Scotland, even more likely for Scotland after a very bitter divorce and led by the SNP would not be somewhere an English PM would be desperate to send RAF pilots to potentially risk their lives to defend if it was not obliged to as a fellow NATO member
    So you haven't read the article to see why we do it.... Not that I'm surprised...
    Allegedly to protect the FIR shared by both nations. It could still do that without flying over the rest of Ireland (or potentially Scotland) which does not share the FIR with rUK
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 814
    Andy_JS said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    Yes the Tories need a major refresh within the next 18 months or so.
    But then the question arises of whether or not they are really different. After all, they have all sat on their hands and nodded through everything that Johnson has wanted to do. There have been rebels, I seem to remember, from time to time. But the rebellions come from different groupings, and so are not consistent or united.

    Apart from that, the biggest hitter the anti-Johnson Tories have is Mrs May.

    The problem that the Conservatives have is quite simply that they do not have anybody who could replace Johnson. They are all contaminated or too feeble.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,045
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.


    How about:

    1) Brownfield sites need to be fully exploited, and including allowing the building of homes in former retail areas which are now just charity shop jungles

    2) All suppoirt for other parties must only extend to S+C, (i think it's called), until a proper PR system is introduced

    3) Brexit has happened, so there doesn't need to be a policy on that. What we now need is a renegotiated Customs/Trade/ freedom of movement system.
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited July 21
    glw said:

    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    If we’re dissolving a Union of equals, then we’ll be taking our share of the national debt.

    If we’re leaving the UK, you can keep your own debt.
    The UK should take the debt, it would amount to about a 12% rise, so quite serviceable. But if the UK did that what do you think you are going to get in any negotiations?
    And what kind of ratings from the agencies? Who would finance a state that came into existence in a proud moment of debt repudiation?

    But separatists don't give a toss about any of that. All they want is their "freedom". They know they're better than England any day of the week. And anyone who thinks otherwise has either been brainwashed by fake news from the "London media", or else they're an English b*stard to start with. That's the true mentality of Scottish separatists.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting fusion technology, which generates electricity directly from the fusion process:
    https://www.eetimes.com/helion-energy-achieves-key-fusion-milestone/

    At first glance, it looks considerably more practicable than others approaches.

    Using the movement of the plasma to generate electricity through induction is certainly a novel approach. The idea does seem plausible unlike, as you say, most other approaches. However, you're still going to have the problems of irradiation of the containment vessel and the need to remove large amounts of heat.
    They must have fixed the heat issue if they are able to keep it running for 16 months
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 11,744
    mwadams said:

    That said, if the LDs ran a campaign targeted *solely* at about 25 of those seats, plus defence of their existing 12, they could pick up a fair few of them. With a couple of "plucky outsiders" getting in (and withstand a couple of disappointing losses), they could be at maybe 25-35 MPs which is a much better place than they are currently.

    The problem with the 2019 campaign was LD targeting was bonkers. I was getting daily updates at one point that a variety of seats were suddenly targets - including Berwick-upon-Tweed and York Outer at one point. Which pulled resources away from Harrogate. Then they swung the other way and it was DEFEND TIM FARRON.

    Its now very clear which seats are in play, we have a lot of seats where we have momentum in 2nd place. The internal party investigation into 2019 (described as a "high speed car crash") has learned lessons and made changes. So yes, I have high hopes that this time we can rebuild lost seats where the Tories are under threat.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 3,684
    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,079
    Gnud said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    If we’re dissolving a Union of equals, then we’ll be taking our share of the national debt.

    If we’re leaving the UK, you can keep your own debt.
    The UK should take the debt, it would amount to about a 12% rise, so quite serviceable. But if the UK did that what do you think you are going to get in any negotiations?
    And what kind of ratings from the agencies? Who would finance a state that came into existence in a proud moment of debt repudiation?

    But separatists don't give a toss about any of that. All they want is their "freedom". They know they're better than England any day of the week. And anyone who thinks otherwise has either been brainwashed by fake news from the "London media", or else they're an English b*stard to start with. That's the true mentality of Scottish separatists.
    You seem a tad emotional about the issue.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 10,449
    algarkirk said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Its posh seats which people of working age want to live in. Guildford, St Albans etc yes, Arundel is for the retired posh.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 3,684

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.


    How about:

    1) Brownfield sites need to be fully exploited, and including allowing the building of homes in former retail areas which are now just charity shop jungles

    2) All suppoirt for other parties must only extend to S+C, (i think it's called), until a proper PR system is introduced

    3) Brexit has happened, so there doesn't need to be a policy on that. What we now need is a renegotiated Customs/Trade/ freedom of movement system.
    Thanks. Good luck with (1) and (2). (3) is a Brexit policy. Parties will need one for decades. And good luck if FoM is a non-negotiable LD policy.

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,348
    Glad to see we’re still going round in circles on Scottish independence here.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 90
    algarkirk said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Hard to say about the next election. I would say only a handful of seats like Wimbledon, Guildford and South Cambs are near certain gains for the LDs but I think the long term future for the LDs in plenty of seats in the South of England is very rosy indeed. I'd say virtually any seat where the LDs are 2nd to the Tories and are strong at a local level in the south and which voted remain/marginally leave is a broadly viable target. To flip it round the way I'd say the working age Tory vote in places like e.g. Chelmsford must be fairly soft. David Gauke's old seat which borders Chesham and Amersham looks quite interesting as well.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,045
    edited July 21

    Gnud said:

    glw said:

    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    1. Trident would go to SuBase Kings Bay in GA with the US boomers as an interim measure that would end up permanent as that's the route of least resistance that keeps the US happy.
    2. Scotland would get a NATO (or EU) air policing mission like Iceland does right now because that serves everybody's interests. GIUK remains covered. Scotland don't have to shell out for an air force.
    3. Russia would not invade Scotland.
    Iceland is in NATO
    Ireland however isn't but this is why we do it https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-do-british-jets-protect-irish-airspace/

    I can see Scotland ending up in the same position for similar reasons.
    The 26 counties are in Partnership for Peace which is stage one of the four stage path to NATO membership. PfP along with whatever EU defence structure supercedes PESCO is the logical destination for Scotland.
    How does an Independent Scotland get into the EU?

    It would need an independent currency which means balancing it's books and I dread to think what the Scottish budget deficit looks like.
    If we’re dissolving a Union of equals, then we’ll be taking our share of the national debt.

    If we’re leaving the UK, you can keep your own debt.
    The UK should take the debt, it would amount to about a 12% rise, so quite serviceable. But if the UK did that what do you think you are going to get in any negotiations?
    And what kind of ratings from the agencies? Who would finance a state that came into existence in a proud moment of debt repudiation?

    But separatists don't give a toss about any of that. All they want is their "freedom". They know they're better than England any day of the week. And anyone who thinks otherwise has either been brainwashed by fake news from the "London media", or else they're an English b*stard to start with. That's the true mentality of Scottish separatists.
    You seem a tad emotional about the issue.
    yes, very emotional. on the independence issue, I can foresee an Independent Scotland receiving positive overtures from the EU, with a view to expanding the EU trade markets, and strengthening the trade links with Ireland. Who knows, this could tip the reunification arguement for NI. If Scotland was offered the use of the Euro in return (imagine Euros with Scottish historical heroes all over them), I could see a ready deal in the offing here. I also read somewhere that there is a net flow North to South of generated electrical energy. Link that with "Scottish Oil" and it may be worth something, along with the continuence of the NATO foothold.

    Just putting it out there, don't shoot the messenger please...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 3,684

    algarkirk said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Its posh seats which people of working age want to live in. Guildford, St Albans etc yes, Arundel is for the retired posh.
    Too many counter examples for this to be a complete explanation. Try Saffron Walden. The sea of blue around the M25 is exactly where large numbers of educated workers live. And not one of them is inexpensive.

  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 30
    Amwrsham had it's own specific issue HS2 and a Lib Dem candidate who was prepared to say anything to get elected. Not sure these scenarious will apply on a wider scale.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 814

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    The chance of anyone leaning to the Tories in a minority government is nil. This has consequences including:

    Only a Tory vote can possibly deliver a majority government.
    This will shore up the centre right vote.
    No other configuration of possible government is stable.

    Consequences for LDs:

    They need to clarify three areas of policy
    1) How to build millions of houses everywhere except next to whoever they are speaking to while enabling your children to buy a house in the village.

    2) Where do they stand in relation to support for Labour when the SNP's support is also needed - in particular about Ref2.

    3) What is their medium/long term Brexit policy, and which bits are non negotiable.
    How about:

    1) Brownfield sites need to be fully exploited, and including allowing the building of homes in former retail areas which are now just charity shop jungles

    2) All support for other parties must only extend to S+C, (i think it's called), until a proper PR system is introduced

    3) Brexit has happened, so there doesn't need to be a policy on that. What we now need is a renegotiated Customs/Trade/ freedom of movement system.
    Taking up Mr Daveyboy's second point, a confidence and supply arrangement would leave the country with a government similar to Callaghan's government at the time of the Lib Lab pact. We had a stable government then - and Callaghan was able to pursue all the Labour policies in his party manifesto which the Liberals agreed with. He was not able to push through extreme Socialist policies, which is why the Labour extremists went in for the winter of discontent and undermined Callaghan.

    Of course, the Scot Nats could bring down the government if they chose - as they did before - and put in a Tory government. But that did not work out well for the country last time, and I have no doubt it would be equally disastrous next time round, both for the country and the SNP. So I do not see that as being on the cards.

    Voting Lib Dem next time is the best way of keeping out the extremists, at both extremes.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645

    Amwrsham had it's own specific issue HS2 and a Lib Dem candidate who was prepared to say anything to get elected. Not sure these scenarious will apply on a wider scale.

    alongside a crap Tory candidate who didn't understand that "HS2 is a really bad idea and should be stopped" was the only valid answer in Amersham.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 16,555

    algarkirk said:



    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Its posh seats which people of working age want to live in. Guildford, St Albans etc yes, Arundel is for the retired posh.
    That's right, also within constituencies. In my patch (Hunt's constituency, SW Surrey) the Tories are down to 2 County Councillors out of 7, and both are in the villages where there are masses of wealthy retired people, while they have fallen miles behind the LibDems (and behind Labour at Borough level in some places like mine) in the small towns. Another factor is a college in the area even if not a full-blown university.

    On algarkirk's hypothesis, for all the doubts about Starmer's positive ideas, few people will feel he's going to be a puppet of Burgon and Pidcock (if they've even heard of them). Is a possible post-election understanding with Sturgeon going to seem very terrifying in Wokingham? Will voters there care much about that? As for tree-huggers, lots of wealthy folk are quite open to a bit of greenery.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,045
    edited July 21

    Amwrsham had it's own specific issue HS2 and a Lib Dem candidate who was prepared to say anything to get elected. Not sure these scenarious will apply on a wider scale.

    How is it wrong for a candidate to put the popular policies of his party more prominently than others? Our present PM was elected by doing it....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,079



    yes, very emotional. on the independence issue, I can foresee an Independent Scotland receiving positive overtures from the EU, with a view to expanding the EU trade markets, and strengthening the trade links with Ireland. Who knows, this could tip the reunification arguement for NI. If Scotland was offered the use of the Euro in return (imagine Euros with Scottish historical heroes all over them), I could see a ready deal in the offing here. I also read somewhere that there is a net flow North to South of generated electrical energy. Link that with "Scottish Oil" and it may be worth something, along with the continuence of the NATO foothold.

    Just putting it out there, don't shoot the messenger please...

    'I also read somewhere that there is a net flow North to South of generated electrical energy.'

    In more cutting off nose to spite face news..



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 37,463
    Andy_JS said:

    Brisbane has been awarded the 2032 Olympics. Congratulations to them. But will the Australian border be open by then?

    Have the Tokyo Games already begun? BBC2 were showing GB v. Chile in the ladies' footy earlier.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 10,449
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Its posh seats which people of working age want to live in. Guildford, St Albans etc yes, Arundel is for the retired posh.
    Too many counter examples for this to be a complete explanation. Try Saffron Walden. The sea of blue around the M25 is exactly where large numbers of educated workers live. And not one of them is inexpensive.

    Its an hour and a half journey each way into London, its provincial not a commuter town or desirable for a London mid life emigre.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,538

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, which is why there is near zero chance of a Labour majority at the next general election there is a clear chance of a PM Starmer given confidence and supply by the LDs and SNP

    There is no chance of C&S with any of them. Tories won't find anyone willing to play after their treatment of the DUP. Labour can't afford the "in the SNP's pocket" attack so will go minority if needed.

    The question is which way will the smaller parties lean in the event of a minority government? Suspect there is far more chance they would vote with a minority Labour government than a minority Tory one.
    After last night's performance by Cummings I thought Starmer looked a much more appealing prospect.

    Someone 'interesting' seems considerably less important today than someone sane.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 16,555

    eek said:

    In big doms interview he constantly talks about we did this, we put boris in place, we might set up a new party, we took over an existing party....

    Who is the we?

    Michael Gove.

    I'm currently on holiday but I took a call from an old friend who moves in these circles.

    Says Cummings is concentrating on wiping out Johnson and Sunak (whom he recently gave the kiss of death) and others.

    Gove is clearing the decks, hence the divorce, expect a few other revelations before conference season.

    Gove is more of a committed Unionist than he is a Brexiteer, he doesn't want to be remembered as the midwife of Scottish independence.

    It is no coincidence that Cummings was Gove's consigliere.

    The talk of replacing/ousting Johnson after the 2019 GE was reminiscent of Gove taking out Johnson after winning the referendum of 2016.

    Now back to my holiday and sweating like a 70s DJ in a police station.
    Gove is however electoral poison - especially for younger age groups.
    I'm first in line to be impervious to the charms of the Gover but I'm mildly intrigued by the voters of Surrey Heath; do they back him in spite of his Govieness 'cos he's a Con, or does he have some personal following? He increased his majority every GE from 2005 except interestingly the last one which I suppose was the great efflorescence of English nationalism.
    Gove does have his fans - I'm one on a non-political basis. He is a politician who is really interested in doing stuff, and I'm allergic to politicians who just want to BE something. I can well imagine that he'd be a great constituency MP - if I had some personal problem that an MP could help resolve, I would absolutely trust Gove to do the necessary.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 20,495
    Could we have just one thread where we don't confuse EU membership criteria with Euro membership criteria.

    Just One. It's all in asking.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645



    yes, very emotional. on the independence issue, I can foresee an Independent Scotland receiving positive overtures from the EU, with a view to expanding the EU trade markets, and strengthening the trade links with Ireland. Who knows, this could tip the reunification arguement for NI. If Scotland was offered the use of the Euro in return (imagine Euros with Scottish historical heroes all over them), I could see a ready deal in the offing here. I also read somewhere that there is a net flow North to South of generated electrical energy. Link that with "Scottish Oil" and it may be worth something, along with the continuence of the NATO foothold.

    Just putting it out there, don't shoot the messenger please...

    'I also read somewhere that there is a net flow North to South of generated electrical energy.'

    In more cutting off nose to spite face news..



    Well the only place they could supply is Ireland who are already supplied by England. Whether it's possible to justify building such a cable is an interesting question.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 1,839
    edited July 21

    algarkirk said:

    ClippP said:

    This list of Lib Dem "target seats" does, I think, rather reflect the amount of effort and resources that the Lib Dems put into them at the last election, as they attempted to save the political skins of their recent big-name converts to liberalism.

    The whole Lib Dem campaign was attuned in 2019 to mitigating or even reversing the disastrous Boris policy of leaving the EU, with no idea of the consequences or plans for dealing with the problems. Whether this particular line will be so prominent next time I do not know. I do not think it was so in the two recent byelections.

    What really did for the Tories in these bye-elections, in addition to the incompetence and corruption, was the impression that Boris and his gang were arrogant authoritarians who did not pay any attention to the needs and aspirations of local people. It is very hard to see how the Tories can reverse this impression, except by clearing out the present Cabinet. Including Gove, of course.

    The list of LD target seats with a Tory MP is an index of educated poshness with a certain style attached.

    Questions to puzzle over would include these: If poshness and education are enough for LDs to come close why are seats like Arundel so Tory and the LDs so distant?

    Whatever the answer is - and I think the question is significant - I think there are a very finite number of seats which LDs can aspire to.

    It is also possible that when the next election comes the options will be stark: You are voting for two possibilities only, a Tory majority government or an unknown form of centre left alliance in which Lab, LD, Green and SNP are essential to its working.

    It is not yet clear that the good people of, say, Wokingham, will certainly prefer the Burgon/Pidcock/Sturgeon/Davey/tree hugging alliance to John Redwood. That will be their choice.

    Its posh seats which people of working age want to live in. Guildford, St Albans etc yes, Arundel is for the retired posh.
    Yes, that's right. Arundel is all tiny towns and villages, farming, retired, landed gentry and so on. No urban vote at all. Permanent Tory country.

    Much more vulnerable are the Tory seats in Sussex surrounding Brighton, as house prices in Brighton send many liberals/lefties scurrying to Shoreham, Worthing etc. to the west and smaller coastal towns to the east. Lewes is also likely to be regained from the Tories next time round.
  • eekeek Posts: 13,645
    Alistair said:

    Could we have just one thread where we don't confuse EU membership criteria with Euro membership criteria.

    Just One. It's all in asking.

    EU membership criteria requires making efforts to join the Euro...

    Hence you can use the Euro criteria as part of the EU membership criteria.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 31,829

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting fusion technology, which generates electricity directly from the fusion process:
    https://www.eetimes.com/helion-energy-achieves-key-fusion-milestone/

    At first glance, it looks considerably more practicable than others approaches.

    Using the movement of the plasma to generate electricity through induction is certainly a novel approach. The idea does seem plausible unlike, as you say, most other approaches. However, you're still going to have the problems of irradiation of the containment vessel and the need to remove large amounts of heat.
    Of course.
    But look at the (relative) scale of the thing - the energy fluxes are much smaller than conventional fusion approaches, a great deal of the energy is being extracted directly as electricity, and the engineering challenges ought therefore to be significantly less.
    It's still going to take quite some time to be a workable product, but it's not quite so much an impossible dream.
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