Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
You know that for sure. Each and every one, or is that just an assumption that someone chanting one thing would chant against another. A vent diagram may be needed.
As for,the IRA. Too late, we did, and the country and Northern Ireland is better for it.
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
Oh come on...it happened at the Champions League final as well, etc etc etc.
You sound like those that bang on and on about all Brexit supporters being racist knuckleheads. Yes there are those, but I think there is a wider misjudgement here, as with Brexit, over the fact not everybody is onboard with this. I don't think the silent majority as signed up to this as the media think, just as the miscalculation with Brexit.
Personally, I wouldn't boo and the players can choose to take the knee, but I don't support it, I don't think it achieves anything positive as now linked to BLM (however much they try to claim it isn't) and is divisive.
As I am said before, they should look to the NFL, where this all began, Inspire Change, is a much more positive approach, rather than the NBA who tried this same ram it down your throat approach and people got really pissed off with it. The NFL have managed to find a middle ground. Even Trump isn't ranting about the Inspire Change campaign.
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
As much as Southgate says the fans don't understand, I think there is a misunderstanding from the authorities and the media about the feeling amongst fans. The whole BLM stuff has been pushed so hard by the media, Sky still flash it up on their coverage, I don't think they have quite realised that a lot of people aren't on board with wanting anything to do with a campaign they see as a political organisation many values they don't support.
Its a bit like Brexit, the media couldn't / can't work out how people could be for such a thing, they must all be racist Knuckleheads.
They might claim taking the knee isn't BLM, but that is what it is associated with now, and why the NFL moved for something very different.
I remember when Millwall fans booed they made a statement, largely ignored, that their objection was BLM was a Marxist organisation as the old BLM organisation was and still is.
When some of the English rugby players of Pacific ancestry stood they were castigated too.
It’s like many debates these days, if you are not fully 100% signed up,to the prevailing orthodoxy then you are automatically an enemy of the cause. The trans minefield is another such issue.
As for Brexit they still don’t get it and never will.
It's really hard work to explain this to anyone on the other side of the fence these days.
You have to choose you analogies and language with great care, and they really have to repsect you a lot to listen.
There is no debate nor discussion. It is incredibly polarised, on both sides, but one side has clearly won and is enforcing its ideology.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
England's PCR tests at two month high The number of people in England going for PCR Covid tests is the highest it's been in two months, Test and Trace figures show.
One million PCR tests were taken in the week to 26 May. This is the highest total since the week to 24 March - and is up 3% on the previous week.
PCR tests are swabs taken at a testing centre rather than at home. They are processed in a laboratory, and are used mainly for anyone who has Covid-19 symptoms and to confirm a positive rapid test result.
Is testing going up or down? Assuming both are accurate, is it possible that people are now just going directly for a PCR test, as its more accurate and the wait times for a response have come down?
Mr B, "As for giving Xie a break, you're just trying to imply anyone sceptical of you pet theory is a supporter of the regime, which is standard bollocks on the message board you seem to be sourcing your arguments from."
If I misread that then fair enough. Only got one eye here.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
England's PCR tests at two month high The number of people in England going for PCR Covid tests is the highest it's been in two months, Test and Trace figures show.
One million PCR tests were taken in the week to 26 May. This is the highest total since the week to 24 March - and is up 3% on the previous week.
PCR tests are swabs taken at a testing centre rather than at home. They are processed in a laboratory, and are used mainly for anyone who has Covid-19 symptoms and to confirm a positive rapid test result.
Is testing going up or down? Assuming both are accurate, is it possible that people are now just going directly for a PCR test, as its more accurate and the wait times for a response have come down?
PCR testing is going up - that's the lab testing Lateral flow test are going down a bit - these are the ones you do at home. School children do lots and lots of these.
The important thing to track is PCR positivity - the relative number of PCR tests that are positive
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
Oh come on...it happened at the Champions League final as well, etc etc etc.
You sound like those that bang on and on about all Brexit supporters being racist knuckleheads. Yes there are those, but I think there is a wider misjudgement here, as with Brexit, over the fact not everybody is onboard with this.
Personally, I wouldn't boo and the players can choose to take the knee, but I don't support it, I don't think it achieves anything positive as now linked to BLM (however much they try to claim it isn't) and is divisive.
As I am said before, they should look to the NFL, where this all began, Inspire Change, is a much more positive approach, rather than the NBA who tried this same ram it down your throat approach and people got really pissed off with it. The NFL have managed to find a middle ground.
I'm not particularly mad keen on BLM as an ideology or political movement but if I get tickets to Anfield next season, I'm not going to boo.
A match with Chelsea booing the knee? I am shocked, next you'll be telling me that water is wet.
Interesting you mention the NFL, this appeared on a work related email.
The NFL on Wednesday pledged to halt the use of “race-norming” — which assumed Black players started out with lower cognitive function — in the $1 billion settlement of brain injury claims and review past scores for any potential race bias.
The practice made it harder for Black retirees to show a deficit and qualify for an award. The standards were created in the 1990s in hopes of offering more appropriate treatment to dementia patients, but critics faulted the way they were used to determine payouts in the NFL concussion case.
Wednesday’s announcement comes after a pair of Black players filed a civil rights lawsuit over the practice, medical experts raised concerns and a group of NFL families last month dropped 50,000 petitions at the federal courthouse in Philadelphia — where the lawsuit had been thrown out by the judge overseeing the settlement.
I wonder if Priti Patel is smart enough to turn this to her advantage, I must also say I have sympathy for the victims and they do deserve to be treated better irrespective of whether they are bogus or not, they are here and our guests.
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
Oh come on...it happened at the Champions League final as well, etc etc etc.
You sound like those that bang on and on about all Brexit supporters being racist knuckleheads. Yes there are those, but I think there is a wider misjudgement here, as with Brexit, over the fact not everybody is onboard with this.
Personally, I wouldn't boo and the players can choose to take the knee, but I don't support it, I don't think it achieves anything positive as now linked to BLM (however much they try to claim it isn't) and is divisive.
As I am said before, they should look to the NFL, where this all began, Inspire Change, is a much more positive approach, rather than the NBA who tried this same ram it down your throat approach and people got really pissed off with it. The NFL have managed to find a middle ground.
I'm not particularly mad keen on BLM as an ideology or political movement but if I get tickets to Anfield next season, I'm not going to boo.
A match with Chelsea booing the knee? I am shocked, next you'll be telling me that water is wet.
Interesting you mention the NFL, this appeared on a work related email.
The NFL on Wednesday pledged to halt the use of “race-norming” — which assumed Black players started out with lower cognitive function — in the $1 billion settlement of brain injury claims and review past scores for any potential race bias.
The practice made it harder for Black retirees to show a deficit and qualify for an award. The standards were created in the 1990s in hopes of offering more appropriate treatment to dementia patients, but critics faulted the way they were used to determine payouts in the NFL concussion case.
Wednesday’s announcement comes after a pair of Black players filed a civil rights lawsuit over the practice, medical experts raised concerns and a group of NFL families last month dropped 50,000 petitions at the federal courthouse in Philadelphia — where the lawsuit had been thrown out by the judge overseeing the settlement.
Yes I saw that....not sure what that has to do with Inspire Change campaign. I didn't say the NFL are brilliant outfit all round, we know these payouts are due in the first place to them hiding the impact of concussions and it sounds like they have had a load of lawyers do what lawyers do best, formulate approaches which protect their client / minimize their financial expose as much as possible....its why lawyers aren't very popular.
I was saying that they found a sensible middle ground for the taking the knee. The NBA approach was like the football, well everybody is just wrong for not being onboard with all this e.g. putting slogans on the back of shirts, the taking the knee every game etc etc etc, and then the viewing figures went through the floor.
Even if people aren't booing, I think there is a lot wider unhappiness with the continued taking of the knee, and when the stadiums are full, we will lots of disquiet. Trying to just say well its the racists innit, I think misses the point. And we have seen it at lots of games already with minimal fan attendance.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
England's PCR tests at two month high The number of people in England going for PCR Covid tests is the highest it's been in two months, Test and Trace figures show.
One million PCR tests were taken in the week to 26 May. This is the highest total since the week to 24 March - and is up 3% on the previous week.
PCR tests are swabs taken at a testing centre rather than at home. They are processed in a laboratory, and are used mainly for anyone who has Covid-19 symptoms and to confirm a positive rapid test result.
Is testing going up or down? Assuming both are accurate, is it possible that people are now just going directly for a PCR test, as its more accurate and the wait times for a response have come down?
PCR testing is going up - that's the lab testing Lateral flow test are going down a bit - these are the ones you do at home. School children do lots and lots of these.
The important thing to track is PCR positivity - the relative number of PCR tests that are positive
The last day on that data it seems to be falling? is that a change in the direction? or just a quark cored by delayed entry of date?
That Vanity Fair story has the potential to blow this story wide open. Explosive. A conspiracy to cover everything up - but in America, not just in China
Just out of curiosity will those who boo or plan to boo sportsmen who take the knee will also boo Ollie Robinson if they get the opportunity?
I've got a ticket for Day 2 of the India Test at Lords. If he plays, I'll boo him if I hear him being racist/sexist.
You know a few weeks ago our collective eyebrows were raised at rozzers involved in the Dalian Atkinson death, this might explain it.
The police officer on trial for murdering Dalian Atkinson has told the court he kicked the former footballer while he was on the ground because he feared being killed if he got up.
PC Benjamin Monk denies the murder or manslaughter of the former Aston Villa striker after being called to a disturbance outside the home of Atkinson’s father on 15 August 2016.
He told a jury how Atkinson, 48, had been erratic when confronted, threatening to take the officer “to the gates of hell”, leaving Monk so terrified he ran away.
Monk told Birmingham crown court he had been armed with a stun gun when called to the property in Meadow Close, Telford.
Monk, who served with the West Mercia force, went to the incident with PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, which the court has heard was in a relationship with him at the time. She denies a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm.
I wonder if Priti Patel is smart enough to turn this to her advantage, I must also say I have sympathy for the victims and they do deserve to be treated better irrespective of whether they are bogus or not, they are here and our guests.
I am mildly surprised that the continual arrivals of "Priti's Pirogues" across the Narrow Sea hasn't been a bigger political problem for the government. Maybe GB News will be able to whip people up into a frenzy over it.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
England's PCR tests at two month high The number of people in England going for PCR Covid tests is the highest it's been in two months, Test and Trace figures show.
One million PCR tests were taken in the week to 26 May. This is the highest total since the week to 24 March - and is up 3% on the previous week.
PCR tests are swabs taken at a testing centre rather than at home. They are processed in a laboratory, and are used mainly for anyone who has Covid-19 symptoms and to confirm a positive rapid test result.
Is testing going up or down? Assuming both are accurate, is it possible that people are now just going directly for a PCR test, as its more accurate and the wait times for a response have come down?
PCR testing is going up - that's the lab testing Lateral flow test are going down a bit - these are the ones you do at home. School children do lots and lots of these.
The important thing to track is PCR positivity - the relative number of PCR tests that are positive
The last day on that data it seems to be falling? is that a change in the direction? or just a quark cored by delayed entry of date?
The last 3-4 days of most of the data is provisional. The hospital admissions data is the only one I can think of, to be honest, where once it is in, it is done.
Just out of curiosity will those who boo or plan to boo sportsmen who take the knee will also boo Ollie Robinson if they get the opportunity?
I've got a ticket for Day 2 of the India Test at Lords. If he plays, I'll boo him if I hear him being racist/sexist.
You know a few weeks ago our collective eyebrows were raised at rozzers involved in the Dalian Atkinson death, this might explain it.
The police officer on trial for murdering Dalian Atkinson has told the court he kicked the former footballer while he was on the ground because he feared being killed if he got up.
PC Benjamin Monk denies the murder or manslaughter of the former Aston Villa striker after being called to a disturbance outside the home of Atkinson’s father on 15 August 2016.
He told a jury how Atkinson, 48, had been erratic when confronted, threatening to take the officer “to the gates of hell”, leaving Monk so terrified he ran away.
Monk told Birmingham crown court he had been armed with a stun gun when called to the property in Meadow Close, Telford.
Monk, who served with the West Mercia force, went to the incident with PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, which the court has heard was in a relationship with him at the time. She denies a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm.
That they were in a relationship came out at the start of the trial. It probably shouldn't make a difference, but I think it will count against them. My police officer friend tells me that couples aren't supposed to be on duty together.
Just out of curiosity will those who boo or plan to boo sportsmen who take the knee will also boo Ollie Robinson if they get the opportunity?
I've got a ticket for Day 2 of the India Test at Lords. If he plays, I'll boo him if I hear him being racist/sexist.
You know a few weeks ago our collective eyebrows were raised at rozzers involved in the Dalian Atkinson death, this might explain it.
The police officer on trial for murdering Dalian Atkinson has told the court he kicked the former footballer while he was on the ground because he feared being killed if he got up.
PC Benjamin Monk denies the murder or manslaughter of the former Aston Villa striker after being called to a disturbance outside the home of Atkinson’s father on 15 August 2016.
He told a jury how Atkinson, 48, had been erratic when confronted, threatening to take the officer “to the gates of hell”, leaving Monk so terrified he ran away.
Monk told Birmingham crown court he had been armed with a stun gun when called to the property in Meadow Close, Telford.
Monk, who served with the West Mercia force, went to the incident with PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, which the court has heard was in a relationship with him at the time. She denies a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm.
That they were in a relationship came out at the start of the trial. It probably shouldn't make a difference, but I think it will count against them. My police officer friend tells me that couples aren't supposed to be on duty together.
Italy has today opened vaccinations for everybody over the age of 12, after the European Medicines Agency approved the Pfizer/BioNTech jab for 12 to 15-year-olds last week.
This is stupid....they have only fully vaccinated 23% of their population. I have to say I am glad the UK government have stuck the course they have plotted, despite all the special pleading.
F##king Airbridge v2.....it was all so predictable.
What bit of "you don't know you have a problem until you have already got a problem" don't they understand? And that is before you even consider hardly any country tests like we do, most it is a tiny fraction.
You can't even make the argument that allowing the fans to go to Portugal boosts the UK economy / business. We could have had them all outside in fan parks watching on big screens, while spending cash in the UK.
Remarkable Newsweek article, telling the story of how a bunch of online amateur Sherlocks sleuthed the lab leak hypothesis, and made it mainstream
Simultaneously dispiriting and encouraging. Dispiriting because of the terrible lies and evasions from China, and the duplicitous omerta from western scientists, encouraging because it shows that concerned citizens around the world can make a massive difference, just with a phone, a laptop and the Net
It is also highly persuasive, if you need to be persuaded that it came from the lab
You seem to have decided well in advance of any evidence!
Maybe your alien chums brought it with them from Zog, on one of their survelling outings?
I think the key point is that the lab leak hypothesis is most dramatic and exciting. Leon has a journalist’s soul, which means drama and excitement (and, preferably, outrage where possible) are key heuristics. You can’t blame journalists. Their job is grabbing attention from a busy populace, and that’s what works. Highlighting the unrepresentative and unusual, often in fields where they have little background (because they don’t really have the time for expertise).
Sometimes they’re even right. Although these are not the metrics to be used to best judge what is and is not right, sheer chance will occasionally cause a bullseye.
Not remotely convinced at the moment, but I’m open to actual evidence.
Where is the ‘actual evidence’ of a natural non-lab origin for this novel bat coronavirus? How did it get from a cave in Yunnan to the centre of Wuhan, 1000 miles away? How did it make that geographical and zoological leap from the cave?
A Yunnanese cave which was, of course, being visited by teams of scientists collecting dozens of novel bat coronaviruses, scientists who then took their samples back to their globally unique lab. 1000 miles away. In the centre of Wuhan
The problem is that pretty much everyone who I've seen pushing this theory has appeared to be a seeker-after-dramatic-story rather than an objective seeker-after-truth.
We've had that godawful Daily Mail expose that "proved" it was "physically impossible" to be natural due to four charged components in a row. Which was plain wrong, to the point where whoever wrote it was either fundamentally ignorant of the subject or deliberately trying to mislead (it took moments for those who did know anything about the subject to point to several thousand such occurrences in the human genome alone.
We've had people breathlessly telling us about "gain of function" because scientists study change of host range, change of transmissibility, and change in antigenicity. But as a category, it sounds like "make viruses worse!" and SARS-CoV-2's lengthy presymptomatic period and duration of infectiveness and viral load (the things that make it bad for us) aren't usually studied in that section. Those who aren't expert in the subject can wrap them all up together and assume that "gain of function research going on here" means "anything that makes viruses bad, must be biological warfare."
Being able to switch on and off functions like that would take a level of knowledge way beyond anything we've ever seen. Not impossible, but has been pointed out, we'd see other capabilities go hand-in-glove with that - such as a skillset with mRNA that would make the mRNA vaccines we've since developed in the West look like sixth-form projects against whatever China would have been able to roll out at far shorter timescales and more effectively (and gain the plaudits for saving the world). Not only haven't they done so, there are no hints that they have the technology to do so.
(1/2)
Because, though, that all makes for a really great story, it's all glossed over. Either ignored, or diminished, or insulted. While any anecdotal or circumstantial evidence in favour of the story is cherry-picked and highlighted and emphasised. (Stuff like the zoonotic origin being described as only supported by 'precedent' with the word precedent in scare quotes - when by that it is meant that it's only supported by the fact that literally every previous virus to make the jump, all the millions since the dawn of time, did it just that way and no virus has ever done it before in the way that the story requires).
It does make one take these earnest and breathless links with an entire chip-shop-worth of salt. Which can be a shame if there's something in it.
Personally, I could easily accept "they were studying bat coronaviruses because they were worried about another SARS or MERS and had an accident." It would need genuine evidence to back it up (a God of the Gaps argument that we can't trace it all the way back to Bartok the Bat in Cave 16 in Yunnan province and what he did doesn't cut the mustard, because it's far more common to be unable to trace a zoonotic jump all the way back than otherwise. But this doesn't mean that there was a secret virus lab in the 1800s run by a Victorian Dr Moreau that designed the most recent of the four cold coronaviruses, either). However, this always gets swept into a "they were designing it and it was a mad scientist experiment run amuck!" theme as well, which runs into multiple implausibilities that have been highlighted.
It's an Achilles heel of storylovers - to push the more dramatic ones too far. (2/2)
I tend to the point of view of Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is, most often but least dramatically, the right one.
Given SARS type viruses have already been pinned down in the past to civet cats, camels and bats and have been proven to have made the leap to humans, it seems eminently logical and more plausible than anything else that SARS-Cov-2 would be the same. Someone was butchering an infected wild animal somewhere and, in the process of eviscerating it, they breathed in some splatter from an infected lung. And thus a pandemic was born.
In any case, other than satisfying breathless conspiracy fantasists' need for bolstering their self-belief, what use does any of this speculation have to the general population now? What we need is prophylactic treatments (vaccines) and symptom relief. It doesn't matter to any but a very small number of people where the damn bug came from. It's here. We have to deal with it.
Yes, I encounter this opinion a lot
"Does it really matter where it came from? Only 3.5m have died. Who cares. it probably came from the market anyway despite the total lack of evidence. Give China a break. Let's crack on with sorting out the vaccines and forget all about it XIE XIE"
The wet markets appear to be the source of amplification, not original transmission.
As for giving Xie a break, you're just trying to imply anyone sceptical of you pet theory is a supporter of the regime, which is standard bollocks on the message board you seem to be sourcing your arguments from.
You now have to explain away that enormous Vanity Fair article. This will require some reading, which you apparently find hard, given that you know so pitifully little about this disease, from the Yunnanese miners to the nature of the Wuhan research.
But I recommend it, that's how I know so much more than you. I read a lot
Good luck, old boy
Oh dear, if there is a prize for most Pompous Quote of The Year, that has to be up there.
You might read a lot, and write a lot Leon, but it doesn't mean that you know a lot. Particularly if what you read is of similar low quality to what you write, lol.
I was joking...I don't think either have a large effect in the immediate polling.
Where it might, if UK has to ditch 21st big reopen, then people will say that Cummings bloke said the government were useless, he was right....and maybe further down the road, Starmer has maybe shifted a bit of opinion of he isn't a cross between Gordon Brittas and David Brent (but less convinced by that).
Sorry to disappoint, but 10 points of lead is roughly where I would expect any party of government that was managing the current vaccine programme. Politicians used to be said to put on khaki when it suited them. Now they put on lab coats.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
Because of a stupid football match that should have been played in the UK. Total madness.
I doubt it, really. To put it all down to a football match, with a few thousand fans largely mixing among themselves over the course of a day, but attribute nothing to 10s of thousands of Brits on holiday mixing with local population over several weeks?
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
Nor Switzerland, nor many smaller countries. I am not convinced it is a good move. What is more needed is international agreement on a proportion of corp tax relative to global profits and directly proportional to the revenue in an individual country. That would be fairer.
From Tuesday morning passengers returning to the UK from Portugal will have to self isolate in their own homes. Can be released after five days with negative tests.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
As much as Southgate says the fans don't understand, I think there is a misunderstanding from the authorities and the media about the feeling amongst fans. The whole BLM stuff has been pushed so hard by the media, Sky still flash it up on their coverage, I don't think they have quite realised that a lot of people aren't on board with wanting anything to do with a campaign they see as a political organisation many values they don't support.
Its a bit like Brexit, the media couldn't / can't work out how people could be for such a thing, they must all be racist Knuckleheads.
They might claim taking the knee isn't BLM, but that is what it is associated with now, and why the NFL moved for something very different.
I remember when Millwall fans booed they made a statement, largely ignored, that their objection was BLM was a Marxist organisation as the old BLM organisation was and still is.
When some of the English rugby players of Pacific ancestry stood they were castigated too.
It’s like many debates these days, if you are not fully 100% signed up,to the prevailing orthodoxy then you are automatically an enemy of the cause. The trans minefield is another such issue.
As for Brexit they still don’t get it and never will.
It's really hard work to explain this to anyone on the other side of the fence these days.
You have to choose you analogies and language with great care, and they really have to repsect you a lot to listen.
There is no debate nor discussion. It is incredibly polarised, on both sides, but one side has clearly won and is enforcing its ideology.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
Quasi-religious? It's saying racism is bad. I really think that before a footie game that is all it means. And if you think about the constituency it is aimed at then the more the merrier, message-wise, frankly.
COULD the bug be a bio-weapon, that escaped? Is it even possible it was deliberately released?
I severely doubt the latter, and I am skeptical of the former, but these are potent paragraphs from the Vanity Fair article
"Though {Wuhan lab chef] Shi has portrayed the WIV as a transparent hub of international research beset by false allegations, the State Department’s January fact sheet painted a different picture: of a facility conducting classified military research, and hiding it, which Shi adamantly denies. But a former national security official who reviewed U.S. classified materials told Vanity Fair that inside the WIV, military and civilian researchers are “doing animal research in the same fricking space.”
"As officials at the NSC tracked collaborations between the WIV and military scientists—which stretch back 20 years, with 51 coauthored papers—they also took note of a book flagged by a college student in Hong Kong. Written by a team of 18 authors and editors, 11 of whom worked at China’s Air Force Medical University, the book, Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons, explores issues surrounding the development of bioweapons capabilities."
"Claiming that terrorists using gene editing had created SARS-CoV-1 as a bioweapon, the book contained some alarming practical trade craft: “Bioweapon aerosol attacks are best conducted during dawn, dusk, night or cloudy weather because ultraviolet rays can damage the pathogens.” And it cited collateral benefits, noting that a sudden surge of hospitalizations could cause a healthcare system to collapse. One of the book’s editors has collaborated on 12 scientific papers with researchers at the WIV....
"The inflammatory idea of SARS-CoV-2-as-bioweapon has gained traction as an alt-right conspiracy theory, but civilian research under Shi’s supervision that has yet to be made public raises more realistic concerns. Shi’s own comments to a science journal, and grant information available on a Chinese government database, suggest that in the past three years her team has tested two novel but undisclosed bat coronaviruses on humanized mice, to gauge their infectiousness."
Gareth Southgate says "some people aren't understanding the message" after fans at the Riverside Stadium jeered when players took a knee before England's friendly win over Austria.
When the stadiums are full again next seasons, I think there is going to be a big bust up.
Cue plenty of blue tick sports hacks and commentators, on twitter, like Paul Hayward ranting about it being sickening etc etc as if booing is defecating on the memory of George Floyd and the fight for racial equality.
People are well within their rights to boo. Doesn’t make them the next Tommeh.
Or perhaps some fans don't like the politics of BLM.
And, regardless of the message, people don't like to be incessantly preached at - particularly in their leisure time.
Did you know the people who booed the knee last night also chanted 'No Surrender to the IRA.'?
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
Oh come on...it happened at the Champions League final as well, etc etc etc.
You sound like those that bang on and on about all Brexit supporters being racist knuckleheads. Yes there are those, but I think there is a wider misjudgement here, as with Brexit, over the fact not everybody is onboard with this.
Personally, I wouldn't boo and the players can choose to take the knee, but I don't support it, I don't think it achieves anything positive as now linked to BLM (however much they try to claim it isn't) and is divisive.
As I am said before, they should look to the NFL, where this all began, Inspire Change, is a much more positive approach, rather than the NBA who tried this same ram it down your throat approach and people got really pissed off with it. The NFL have managed to find a middle ground.
I'm not particularly mad keen on BLM as an ideology or political movement but if I get tickets to Anfield next season, I'm not going to boo.
A match with Chelsea booing the knee? I am shocked, next you'll be telling me that water is wet.
Interesting you mention the NFL, this appeared on a work related email.
The NFL on Wednesday pledged to halt the use of “race-norming” — which assumed Black players started out with lower cognitive function — in the $1 billion settlement of brain injury claims and review past scores for any potential race bias.
The practice made it harder for Black retirees to show a deficit and qualify for an award. The standards were created in the 1990s in hopes of offering more appropriate treatment to dementia patients, but critics faulted the way they were used to determine payouts in the NFL concussion case.
Wednesday’s announcement comes after a pair of Black players filed a civil rights lawsuit over the practice, medical experts raised concerns and a group of NFL families last month dropped 50,000 petitions at the federal courthouse in Philadelphia — where the lawsuit had been thrown out by the judge overseeing the settlement.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
Yes. It's a faff. But for those who want to go away on holiday it is worth it because once you are there you are on holiday.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
Quasi-religious? It's saying racism is bad. I really think that before a footie game that is all it means. And if you think about the constituency it is aimed at then the more the merrier, message-wise, frankly.
Do it once a season like the poppies and there wouldn't be any complaints (except from maybe a few idiots).
Sorry to disappoint, but 10 points of lead is roughly where I would expect any party of government that was managing the current vaccine programme.
Like in Germany?
As in our vaccination programme, which I would put more down to our expertise in pharma and the expert advice it gives to government than our Classics educated ex-polemicist PM.
Besides, the reality is that government ministers are on TV and radio constantly. For the last 6 months the press briefings have been party political broadcasts. Whether one believes the vaccine programme in the UK was a result of Boris Johnson, Brexit or extra terrestrial intervention from the planet Zog, the reality is that the government has had massive publicity. I don't have the ability to compare with Germany because I don't live there.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
Quasi-religious? It's saying racism is bad. I really think that before a footie game that is all it means. And if you think about the constituency it is aimed at then the more the merrier, message-wise, frankly.
Do it once a season like the poppies and there wouldn't be any complaints (except from maybe a few idiots).
I think racism at the footie is more than a once a year event.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
I agree, but the Dion Dublin interpretation that anyone booing is a racist is itself pretty unlikely too.
More than anything else for me is that while symbolic gestures can be important, they can also just end up being something done by rote without thought, meaningless even, whilst giving appearance of meaning.
They dont want it become just another part of pre match procedure to tick off a list.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
Yes. It's a faff. But for those who want to go away on holiday it is worth it because once you are there you are on holiday.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
The thing is, what are all these green/amber list decisions based on? Case numbers. The Portugal decision was not based on some new scary variant but case numbers. So if the scientists have convinced the Govt to change the status of Portugal then there’s no logical way they are going to carry on with June 21st.
Whether logic plays any part in these decisions however...
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
Yes. It's a faff. But for those who want to go away on holiday it is worth it because once you are there you are on holiday.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
The thing is, what are all these green/amber list decisions based on? Case numbers. The Portugal decision was not based on some new scary variant but case numbers. So if the scientists have convinced the Govt to change the status of Portugal then there’s no logical way they are going to carry on with June 21st.
Whether logic plays any part in these decisions however...
We all screamed "hospitalisations not cases" (I agree one is an indicator of the other, in an unvaxxed world). And now they are going to look at cases. In a vaxxed world.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
It's also the financial aspect.
Having to quarantine a hotel for ten days.
I can fully understand the need to quarantine (for 10 days) anyone who willingly goes to Blackpool.
Although quarantine is a strange word for send to a mental hospital.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
It's also the financial aspect.
Having to quarantine a hotel for ten days.
For someone such as yourself? I don't believe it. And in any case most UK holidays are far more spenny than ones abroad right now.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
Quasi-religious? It's saying racism is bad. I really think that before a footie game that is all it means. And if you think about the constituency it is aimed at then the more the merrier, message-wise, frankly.
Do it once a season like the poppies and there wouldn't be any complaints (except from maybe a few idiots).
I think racism at the footie is more than a once a year event.
Where do you go to watch football out of interest?
I’ve just found a history professor with a lively sense of humour.
We are delighted to host Professor Robert Frost FBA, FRSE (University of Aberdeen) for the RHS Prothero Lecture 2021
The Roads Not Taken Liberty, Sovereignty and the Idea of the Republic in Poland-Lithuania and the British Isles, 1550-1660
Now there is a title of pure genius.
It might actually be very interesting - there were some strong links. I've just been coincidentally reading about the Scottish merchants who set up shop in Lithuania at that time and whose houses are still surviving - for instance the ones in this tweet
COULD the bug be a bio-weapon, that escaped? Is it even possible it was deliberately released?
I severely doubt the latter, and I am skeptical of the former, but these are potent paragraphs from the Vanity Fair article
"Though {Wuhan lab chef] Shi has portrayed the WIV as a transparent hub of international research beset by false allegations, the State Department’s January fact sheet painted a different picture: of a facility conducting classified military research, and hiding it, which Shi adamantly denies. But a former national security official who reviewed U.S. classified materials told Vanity Fair that inside the WIV, military and civilian researchers are “doing animal research in the same fricking space.”
"As officials at the NSC tracked collaborations between the WIV and military scientists—which stretch back 20 years, with 51 coauthored papers—they also took note of a book flagged by a college student in Hong Kong. Written by a team of 18 authors and editors, 11 of whom worked at China’s Air Force Medical University, the book, Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons, explores issues surrounding the development of bioweapons capabilities."
"Claiming that terrorists using gene editing had created SARS-CoV-1 as a bioweapon, the book contained some alarming practical trade craft: “Bioweapon aerosol attacks are best conducted during dawn, dusk, night or cloudy weather because ultraviolet rays can damage the pathogens.” And it cited collateral benefits, noting that a sudden surge of hospitalizations could cause a healthcare system to collapse. One of the book’s editors has collaborated on 12 scientific papers with researchers at the WIV....
"The inflammatory idea of SARS-CoV-2-as-bioweapon has gained traction as an alt-right conspiracy theory, but civilian research under Shi’s supervision that has yet to be made public raises more realistic concerns. Shi’s own comments to a science journal, and grant information available on a Chinese government database, suggest that in the past three years her team has tested two novel but undisclosed bat coronaviruses on humanized mice, to gauge their infectiousness."
But a former national security official who reviewed U.S. classified materials told Vanity Fair that inside the WIV, military and civilian researchers are “doing animal research in the same fricking space.”
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That, unfortunately, sounds like Zero-Covidism to me and as a result you'll be put in the gulag.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
Yes. It's a faff. But for those who want to go away on holiday it is worth it because once you are there you are on holiday.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
The thing is, what are all these green/amber list decisions based on? Case numbers. The Portugal decision was not based on some new scary variant but case numbers. So if the scientists have convinced the Govt to change the status of Portugal then there’s no logical way they are going to carry on with June 21st.
Whether logic plays any part in these decisions however...
We all screamed "hospitalisations not cases" (I agree one is an indicator of the other, in an unvaxxed world). And now they are going to look at cases. In a vaxxed world.
It’s not even that. If we are relaxed in this country that our vaccination level is suffice to withstand lots of cases then even hospitalisations (in Portugal) aren’t a relevant factor to the U.K. That’s Portugal’s problem and linked to their own levels of vaccination.
COULD the bug be a bio-weapon, that escaped? Is it even possible it was deliberately released?
I severely doubt the latter, and I am skeptical of the former, but these are potent paragraphs from the Vanity Fair article
"Though {Wuhan lab chef] Shi has portrayed the WIV as a transparent hub of international research beset by false allegations, the State Department’s January fact sheet painted a different picture: of a facility conducting classified military research, and hiding it, which Shi adamantly denies. But a former national security official who reviewed U.S. classified materials told Vanity Fair that inside the WIV, military and civilian researchers are “doing animal research in the same fricking space.”
"As officials at the NSC tracked collaborations between the WIV and military scientists—which stretch back 20 years, with 51 coauthored papers—they also took note of a book flagged by a college student in Hong Kong. Written by a team of 18 authors and editors, 11 of whom worked at China’s Air Force Medical University, the book, Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons, explores issues surrounding the development of bioweapons capabilities."
"Claiming that terrorists using gene editing had created SARS-CoV-1 as a bioweapon, the book contained some alarming practical trade craft: “Bioweapon aerosol attacks are best conducted during dawn, dusk, night or cloudy weather because ultraviolet rays can damage the pathogens.” And it cited collateral benefits, noting that a sudden surge of hospitalizations could cause a healthcare system to collapse. One of the book’s editors has collaborated on 12 scientific papers with researchers at the WIV....
"The inflammatory idea of SARS-CoV-2-as-bioweapon has gained traction as an alt-right conspiracy theory, but civilian research under Shi’s supervision that has yet to be made public raises more realistic concerns. Shi’s own comments to a science journal, and grant information available on a Chinese government database, suggest that in the past three years her team has tested two novel but undisclosed bat coronaviruses on humanized mice, to gauge their infectiousness."
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
As many of those rapid test will be on school children and Y11 and Y13 are probably on study leave/had finished school in that week I'm not really surprised the number has gone down. It will plummet this week (half-term).
Remarkable Newsweek article, telling the story of how a bunch of online amateur Sherlocks sleuthed the lab leak hypothesis, and made it mainstream
Simultaneously dispiriting and encouraging. Dispiriting because of the terrible lies and evasions from China, and the duplicitous omerta from western scientists, encouraging because it shows that concerned citizens around the world can make a massive difference, just with a phone, a laptop and the Net
It is also highly persuasive, if you need to be persuaded that it came from the lab
You seem to have decided well in advance of any evidence!
Maybe your alien chums brought it with them from Zog, on one of their survelling outings?
I think the key point is that the lab leak hypothesis is most dramatic and exciting. Leon has a journalist’s soul, which means drama and excitement (and, preferably, outrage where possible) are key heuristics. You can’t blame journalists. Their job is grabbing attention from a busy populace, and that’s what works. Highlighting the unrepresentative and unusual, often in fields where they have little background (because they don’t really have the time for expertise).
Sometimes they’re even right. Although these are not the metrics to be used to best judge what is and is not right, sheer chance will occasionally cause a bullseye.
Not remotely convinced at the moment, but I’m open to actual evidence.
Where is the ‘actual evidence’ of a natural non-lab origin for this novel bat coronavirus? How did it get from a cave in Yunnan to the centre of Wuhan, 1000 miles away? How did it make that geographical and zoological leap from the cave?
A Yunnanese cave which was, of course, being visited by teams of scientists collecting dozens of novel bat coronaviruses, scientists who then took their samples back to their globally unique lab. 1000 miles away. In the centre of Wuhan
The problem is that pretty much everyone who I've seen pushing this theory has appeared to be a seeker-after-dramatic-story rather than an obRNA that would make the mRNA vaccines we've since developed in the West look like sixth-form projects against whatever China would have been able to roll out at far shorter timescales and more effectively (and gain the plaudits for saving the world). Not only haven't they done so, there are no hints that they have the technology to do so.
(1/2)
Because, though, that all makes for a really great story, it's all glossed over. Either ignored, or diminished, or insulted. While any anecdotal or circumstantial evidence in favour of the story is cherry-picked and highlighted and emphasised. (Stuff like the zoonotic origin being described as only supported by 'precedent' with the word precedent in scare quotes - when by that it is meant that it's only supported by the fact that literally every previous virus to make the jump, all the millions since the dawn of time, did it just that way and no virus has ever done it before in the way that the story requires).
It does make one take these earnest and breathless links with an entire chip-shop-worth of salt. Which can be a shame if there's something in it.
Personally, I could easily accept "they were studying bat coronaviruses because they were worried about another SARS or MERS and had an accident." It would need genuine evidence to back it up (a God of the Gaps argument that we can't trace it all the way back to Bartok the Bat in Cave 16 in Yunnan province and what he did doesn't cut the mustard, because it's far more common to be unable to trace a zoonotic jump all the way back than otherwise. But this doesn't mean that there was a secret virus lab in the 1800s run by a Victorian Dr Moreau that designed the most recent of the four cold coronaviruses, either). However, this always gets swept into a "they were designing it and it was a mad scientist experiment run amuck!" theme as well, which runs into multiple implausibilities that have been highlighted.
It's an Achilles heel of storylovers - to push the more dramatic ones too far. (2/2)
And yet you completely miss the most obvious evidence of all. Which is all around you, the circumstantial stuff
"literally every previous virus to make the jump, all the millions since the dawn of time, did it just that way and no virus has ever done it before in the way that the story requires)."
So basically it's almost impossible. It can never happen! This is the entirety of YOUR evidence (I wait for any more)
And yet, here is the reaction of the director of the Wuhan lab, when she first heard about this weird new respiratory coronavirus disease, at a conference in Shanghai
""Drop whatever you are doing and deal with it now,” she recalls the director saying.
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
COULD THEY HAVE COME FROM OUR LAB
That was her first, urgent reaction. A leak from the lab. She rushed back to Wuhan to check.
Now, you're pretty good on maths and data, but compared to the actual women who has done fifteen years of research on novel bat coronaviruses, I suggest you know the cube root of fuck all, on this particular topic. You just waffle on.
She's the expert, and she thought it might have come from her lab, because the coincidence was otherwise too great
"All your evidence relies on is that every single time it's ever happened before, millions of times, it happened that way, and you're ignoring that someone got worried, so this first time ever in history MUST have happened and you're a poopy-head."
And I emphasised that I'm quite happy to believe that they were researching coronaviruses and one of the ones they were looking at had been part of a lab leak. If there's evidence for it. And "We don't know the exact route - like with most other zoonotic viruses" and "She was worried about a lab leak therefore it must have happened and they were making it worse" isn't evidence.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
Depends on his choice of footwear. Might be as low as 20:80.....
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
What have you done to deserve that?
I'm backing Britain and showing off my working class credentials with a trip to Blackpool.
The reality is my other half wants me to have a proper Blackpool experience again, normally we visit Blackpool in November time because I get tickets to the Strictly Live Show in Blackpool but that's in the winter and a proper time in Blackpool is in the summer.
That’s actually a ridiculous interpretation (if I’m not misunderstanding the suggestion that a decision was delayed until after the football). The football was there because Portugal was green listed, it wasn’t on the green list because of the football.
Frankly if the government is going to make decisions aon foreign travel (but not set basis to travel on vaccination status of traveller) then the only sensible basis is to use the vaccination status of the country being travelled to.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
It isn't bonkers, would you really want to go to a foreign country where you get trapped in with a overwhelmed health system and where you might need urgent non Covid-19 related healthcare.
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
More likely to die in the taxi ride from the airport to your hotel if you're fully vaxxed.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
It's also the financial aspect.
Having to quarantine a hotel for ten days.
For someone such as yourself? I don't believe it. And in any case most UK holidays are far more spenny than ones abroad right now.
Well ok, I'm honest, I worry I'll have to quarantine for ten days in a ghastly Premier Inn or a Britannia hotel.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
What have you done to deserve that?
I'm backing Britain and showing off my working class credentials with a trip to Blackpool.
The reality is my other half wants me to have a proper Blackpool experience again, normally we visit Blackpool in November time because I get tickets to the Strictly Live Show in Blackpool but that's in the winter and a proper time in Blackpool is in the summer.
I wonder if the new tram link to Blackpool North station has opened yet.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
What have you done to deserve that?
I'm backing Britain and showing off my working class credentials with a trip to Blackpool.
The reality is my other half wants me to have a proper Blackpool experience again, normally we visit Blackpool in November time because I get tickets to the Strictly Live Show in Blackpool but that's in the winter and a proper time in Blackpool is in the summer.
Have you had all your jabs, no not the COVID ones....your TB one etc.
I said months ago the government should have just said vaccinating going great, but no summer holidays abroad this year, lets just get this covid lark cracked, keep arrival of new variants to a minimum and see where we are in the autumn.
That way Oz/NZ lies. Going on holiday is part of normal life and the government seems keen to return to normal life.
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
But the way it will be will be chaos, on the list, off the list, do the hookie kookie...nobody knows if their holiday is on, its off, if it then requires 10 days isolating in your own home or a hotel, etc.
Yes. It's a faff. But for those who want to go away on holiday it is worth it because once you are there you are on holiday.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
The thing is, what are all these green/amber list decisions based on? Case numbers. The Portugal decision was not based on some new scary variant but case numbers. So if the scientists have convinced the Govt to change the status of Portugal then there’s no logical way they are going to carry on with June 21st.
Whether logic plays any part in these decisions however...
We all screamed "hospitalisations not cases" (I agree one is an indicator of the other, in an unvaxxed world). And now they are going to look at cases. In a vaxxed world.
It’s not even that. If we are relaxed in this country that our vaccination level is suffice to withstand lots of cases then even hospitalisations (in Portugal) aren’t a relevant factor to the U.K. That’s Portugal’s problem and linked to their own levels of vaccination.
I'm not going abroad on holiday this year - I suggest you don't either.
Yup, as someone who likes travelling overseas for a long time I've accepted I will not be going overseas until 2022 at the earliest.
Chez Urquhart garden will be getting plenty of use again this summer....although I would appreciate it if the neighbours kids didn't ruin the grass quite so much when they come round.
I'm actually going to Blackpool this month for a long weekend, for the LOLZ mostly.
What have you done to deserve that?
I'm backing Britain and showing off my working class credentials with a trip to Blackpool.
The reality is my other half wants me to have a proper Blackpool experience again, normally we visit Blackpool in November time because I get tickets to the Strictly Live Show in Blackpool but that's in the winter and a proper time in Blackpool is in the summer.
Proper time for Blackpool is when the lights are on. The reason for their existence is to extend the season beyond the summer.
The number of people testing positive for coronavirus in England has risen by 22%, reaching the highest level in six weeks.
A total of 17,162 people tested positive for Covid-19 in the country at least once in the week to 26 May according to the latest test and trace figures.
That is a rise of more than a fifth on the previous week and the highest number of people to test positive since the week to 14 April, PA Media reports.
Meanwhile the number of rapid Covid-19 tests carried out in England has fallen to its lowest level in six weeks.
I make that a doubling period of just over 24 days. With the continuing rise in vaccinations, that doesn't seem too worrying at the moment.
Apple wants its employees to return to offices by September, a company-wide memo sent to staff on Wednesday said.
Workers must return to their desks for at least three days a week, chief executive Tim Cook wrote. Some staff members will be given the option to work the remaining two days remotely.
Teams that require "in-person" work will return for four or five days.
Apple also told staff they will be able to apply for the chance to work remotely for two weeks a year.
I would say that the number of people who boo sportsmen taking the knee because the founders of the BLM movement are marxist-leninist is very small.
For me, what I don't like about it is that it's quasi-religious. And I don't particularly like poppies on football shirts, though at least that's once a year and money is raised for a good cause when they're auctioned off.
Quasi-religious? It's saying racism is bad. I really think that before a footie game that is all it means. And if you think about the constituency it is aimed at then the more the merrier, message-wise, frankly.
Do it once a season like the poppies and there wouldn't be any complaints (except from maybe a few idiots).
I think racism at the footie is more than a once a year event.
Where do you go to watch football out of interest?
MotD now. In my time plenty all over the place.
Are you telling me things have changed now and they have actually kicked racism out of football?
A cooperation does not think I will buy a pint, or an Ice cream for my kid and then looking their wallet and realise no I cant afford that., only people do that.
Workers pay corporation tax though lower pay Consumers pay corporation tax thought higher prises Investors pay corporation tax though lower returns.
it becomes apparent that Workers loose the most, then Consumers, and investors the lest, At lease after the changes has taken effect and equilibrized.
If you what Investors to pay more tax, as I do, then tax investment, get rid of ISAs, get rid of Dividend tax relief, get rid of National insurance and rise Income tax so that 'Unearned income' is taxed at the same rate as pay, reduce or eliminant the pension contribution tax exemption. but don't raze corporation tax.
Cooperation's are one way, a very important way, we co-operate voluntary as individuals in a free society. As Workers, Consumers and Investors, with one corporation at one time, another at a different time, sometimes perhaps 2 or all 3 from the same corporation at the same time. but voluntary, able to chose to buy your good from a different place, invest your money elsewhere or change job.
for every pound taken in corporation tax, not only do you take a pound form the workers consumers and investors, you also reduce the incentive and ability to co-operate, the investment not make by a successful cooperation because of the tax that has been paid, the good not perched because it was just to expensive, the worker not employed because the risk was to high given the limited return after tax. by some estimates for every £1 taken in corporation tax £2.40 is lost.
Cooperation tax will always be popular because workers, consumers and even investors do not see it coming out of there wallets, but it is still the worst tax we have. If you wish to tax investors, do that, tax there income, and you will have my support.
Comments
Stellar company if you ask me, up there with Millwall fans.
As for,the IRA. Too late, we did, and the country and Northern Ireland is better for it.
You sound like those that bang on and on about all Brexit supporters being racist knuckleheads. Yes there are those, but I think there is a wider misjudgement here, as with Brexit, over the fact not everybody is onboard with this. I don't think the silent majority as signed up to this as the media think, just as the miscalculation with Brexit.
Personally, I wouldn't boo and the players can choose to take the knee, but I don't support it, I don't think it achieves anything positive as now linked to BLM (however much they try to claim it isn't) and is divisive.
As I am said before, they should look to the NFL, where this all began, Inspire Change, is a much more positive approach, rather than the NBA who tried this same ram it down your throat approach and people got really pissed off with it. The NFL have managed to find a middle ground. Even Trump isn't ranting about the Inspire Change campaign.
What is it about my response to @Leon that makes you conclude otherwise ?
No further countries will be added to the UK's travel green list, as ministers prepare to update travellers on quarantine-free destinations
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1400420831830974470?s=20
Is testing going up or down? Assuming both are accurate, is it possible that people are now just going directly for a PCR test, as its more accurate and the wait times for a response have come down?
If I misread that then fair enough. Only got one eye here.
Lateral flow test are going down a bit - these are the ones you do at home. School children do lots and lots of these.
The important thing to track is PCR positivity - the relative number of PCR tests that are positive
A match with Chelsea booing the knee? I am shocked, next you'll be telling me that water is wet.
Interesting you mention the NFL, this appeared on a work related email.
The NFL on Wednesday pledged to halt the use of “race-norming” — which assumed Black players started out with lower cognitive function — in the $1 billion settlement of brain injury claims and review past scores for any potential race bias.
The practice made it harder for Black retirees to show a deficit and qualify for an award. The standards were created in the 1990s in hopes of offering more appropriate treatment to dementia patients, but critics faulted the way they were used to determine payouts in the NFL concussion case.
Wednesday’s announcement comes after a pair of Black players filed a civil rights lawsuit over the practice, medical experts raised concerns and a group of NFL families last month dropped 50,000 petitions at the federal courthouse in Philadelphia — where the lawsuit had been thrown out by the judge overseeing the settlement.
https://apnews.com/article/pa-state-wire-race-and-ethnicity-health-nfl-sports-205b304c0c3724532d74fc54e58b4d1d
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-57335499
I was saying that they found a sensible middle ground for the taking the knee. The NBA approach was like the football, well everybody is just wrong for not being onboard with all this e.g. putting slogans on the back of shirts, the taking the knee every game etc etc etc, and then the viewing figures went through the floor.
Even if people aren't booing, I think there is a lot wider unhappiness with the continued taking of the knee, and when the stadiums are full, we will lots of disquiet. Trying to just say well its the racists innit, I think misses the point. And we have seen it at lots of games already with minimal fan attendance.
The police officer on trial for murdering Dalian Atkinson has told the court he kicked the former footballer while he was on the ground because he feared being killed if he got up.
PC Benjamin Monk denies the murder or manslaughter of the former Aston Villa striker after being called to a disturbance outside the home of Atkinson’s father on 15 August 2016.
He told a jury how Atkinson, 48, had been erratic when confronted, threatening to take the officer “to the gates of hell”, leaving Monk so terrified he ran away.
Monk told Birmingham crown court he had been armed with a stun gun when called to the property in Meadow Close, Telford.
Monk, who served with the West Mercia force, went to the incident with PC Mary Ellen Bettley-Smith, which the court has heard was in a relationship with him at the time. She denies a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/02/officer-charged-dalian-atkinson-feared-for-his-life-court-hears
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9647361/Disaster-British-holidaymakers-EU-refuses-UK-white-list.html
Westminster Voting Intention:
CON: 42% (-1)
LAB: 32% (-2)
LDM: 9% (=)
GRN: 5% (+1)
SNP: 4% (=)
Via @SavantaComRes, 28-30 May. Changes w/ 21-23 May.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1400431304433340418?s=20
.@JoeBiden’s global minimum corporate tax rate of 21% could raise £14.7 billion for Britain every year.
More than enough to fix the NHS funding shortfall.
But Boris Johnson wants to water it down to 15% - letting big multinationals off £6.8 billion.
Let's back Biden's plan.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1400429949031530498?s=20
This is stupid....they have only fully vaccinated 23% of their population. I have to say I am glad the UK government have stuck the course they have plotted, despite all the special pleading.
What bit of "you don't know you have a problem until you have already got a problem" don't they understand? And that is before you even consider hardly any country tests like we do, most it is a tiny fraction.
You can't even make the argument that allowing the fans to go to Portugal boosts the UK economy / business. We could have had them all outside in fan parks watching on big screens, while spending cash in the UK.
You might read a lot, and write a lot Leon, but it doesn't mean that you know a lot. Particularly if what you read is of similar low quality to what you write, lol.
At least Belfast retains the Super Cup match in August.
Where it might, if UK has to ditch 21st big reopen, then people will say that Cummings bloke said the government were useless, he was right....and maybe further down the road, Starmer has maybe shifted a bit of opinion of he isn't a cross between Gordon Brittas and David Brent (but less convinced by that).
They could close the borders but then you have a fully vaccinated nation not allowed to leave the country.
Cheered on by you and @londonpubman. Edit: And @TSE of all people.
Bonkers.
From Tuesday morning passengers returning to the UK from Portugal will have to self isolate in their own homes. Can be released after five days with negative tests.
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1400435371591229440?s=20
That's the risk I've decided I don't want.
I severely doubt the latter, and I am skeptical of the former, but these are potent paragraphs from the Vanity Fair article
"Though {Wuhan lab chef] Shi has portrayed the WIV as a transparent hub of international research beset by false allegations, the State Department’s January fact sheet painted a different picture: of a facility conducting classified military research, and hiding it, which Shi adamantly denies. But a former national security official who reviewed U.S. classified materials told Vanity Fair that inside the WIV, military and civilian researchers are “doing animal research in the same fricking space.”
"As officials at the NSC tracked collaborations between the WIV and military scientists—which stretch back 20 years, with 51 coauthored papers—they also took note of a book flagged by a college student in Hong Kong. Written by a team of 18 authors and editors, 11 of whom worked at China’s Air Force Medical University, the book, Unnatural Origin of SARS and New Species of Man-Made Viruses as Genetic Bioweapons, explores issues surrounding the development of bioweapons capabilities."
"Claiming that terrorists using gene editing had created SARS-CoV-1 as a bioweapon, the book contained some alarming practical trade craft: “Bioweapon aerosol attacks are best conducted during dawn, dusk, night or cloudy weather because ultraviolet rays can damage the pathogens.” And it cited collateral benefits, noting that a sudden surge of hospitalizations could cause a healthcare system to collapse. One of the book’s editors has collaborated on 12 scientific papers with researchers at the WIV....
"The inflammatory idea of SARS-CoV-2-as-bioweapon has gained traction as an alt-right conspiracy theory, but civilian research under Shi’s supervision that has yet to be made public raises more realistic concerns. Shi’s own comments to a science journal, and grant information available on a Chinese government database, suggest that in the past three years her team has tested two novel but undisclosed bat coronaviruses on humanized mice, to gauge their infectiousness."
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=vanity-fair&utm_social-type=earned
Hmm
You can't just expect everyone to agree.
And we are fully vaccinated, or will soon be, so the risks are minimal. Either vaccines work or they don't. The problem of course is children and do we know how effective carriers they are.
You, meanwhile, are taking a huge risk in Blackpool. Odds on surviving? 50:50 at best.
Besides, the reality is that government ministers are on TV and radio constantly. For the last 6 months the press briefings have been party political broadcasts. Whether one believes the vaccine programme in the UK was a result of Boris Johnson, Brexit or extra terrestrial intervention from the planet Zog, the reality is that the government has had massive publicity. I don't have the ability to compare with Germany because I don't live there.
More than anything else for me is that while symbolic gestures can be important, they can also just end up being something done by rote without thought, meaningless even, whilst giving appearance of meaning.
They dont want it become just another part of pre match procedure to tick off a list.
Having to quarantine a hotel for ten days.
Whether logic plays any part in these decisions however...
Although quarantine is a strange word for send to a mental hospital.
It is, however, where I would expect the government to be when the opposition hasn't bothered opposing it for 18 months.
https://twitter.com/billykayscot/status/1268895447696932866
And this house is amazing - one would almost think it C R Mackintosh but it's mid-1600s.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/98023729380143442/?d=t&mt=login
Sorry, this came to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHxUaXDM5HU&ab_channel=chrismartin
2:02 PM · Jun 3, 2021·Twitter for Android"
https://twitter.com/Bingleboo/status/1400437765150543873
https://order-order.com/2021/06/03/exclusive-another-former-sky-producer-slams-kay-burleys-toxic-workplace/
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
"All your evidence relies on is that every single time it's ever happened before, millions of times, it happened that way, and you're ignoring that someone got worried, so this first time ever in history MUST have happened and you're a poopy-head."
And I emphasised that I'm quite happy to believe that they were researching coronaviruses and one of the ones they were looking at had been part of a lab leak. If there's evidence for it. And "We don't know the exact route - like with most other zoonotic viruses" and "She was worried about a lab leak therefore it must have happened and they were making it worse" isn't evidence.
The reality is my other half wants me to have a proper Blackpool experience again, normally we visit Blackpool in November time because I get tickets to the Strictly Live Show in Blackpool but that's in the winter and a proper time in Blackpool is in the summer.
Frankly if the government is going to make decisions aon foreign travel (but not set basis to travel on vaccination status of traveller) then the only sensible basis is to use the vaccination status of the country being travelled to.
Tory Boyz 42% (-1)
With the continuing rise in vaccinations, that doesn't seem too worrying at the moment.
Apple wants its employees to return to offices by September, a company-wide memo sent to staff on Wednesday said.
Workers must return to their desks for at least three days a week, chief executive Tim Cook wrote. Some staff members will be given the option to work the remaining two days remotely.
Teams that require "in-person" work will return for four or five days.
Apple also told staff they will be able to apply for the chance to work remotely for two weeks a year.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57342768
Are you telling me things have changed now and they have actually kicked racism out of football?
A cooperation does not think I will buy a pint, or an Ice cream for my kid and then looking their wallet and realise no I cant afford that., only people do that.
Workers pay corporation tax though lower pay
Consumers pay corporation tax thought higher prises
Investors pay corporation tax though lower returns.
it becomes apparent that Workers loose the most, then Consumers, and investors the lest, At lease after the changes has taken effect and equilibrized.
If you what Investors to pay more tax, as I do, then tax investment, get rid of ISAs, get rid of Dividend tax relief, get rid of National insurance and rise Income tax so that 'Unearned income' is taxed at the same rate as pay, reduce or eliminant the pension contribution tax exemption. but don't raze corporation tax.
Cooperation's are one way, a very important way, we co-operate voluntary as individuals in a free society. As Workers, Consumers and Investors, with one corporation at one time, another at a different time, sometimes perhaps 2 or all 3 from the same corporation at the same time. but voluntary, able to chose to buy your good from a different place, invest your money elsewhere or change job.
for every pound taken in corporation tax, not only do you take a pound form the workers consumers and investors, you also reduce the incentive and ability to co-operate, the investment not make by a successful cooperation because of the tax that has been paid, the good not perched because it was just to expensive, the worker not employed because the risk was to high given the limited return after tax. by some estimates for every £1 taken in corporation tax £2.40 is lost.
Cooperation tax will always be popular because workers, consumers and even investors do not see it coming out of there wallets, but it is still the worst tax we have. If you wish to tax investors, do that, tax there income, and you will have my support.