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Can Dom’s Commons committee appearance on Wednesday possibly live up to its billing? – politicalbett

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Comments

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021

    I wonder if Starmer is currently doing a U-turn from a photo op in Waterstones?

    Piers Morgan interviewing Sir Keir is the middle aged man version of trying to shag an ex girlfriend's ugly mate to get back at them for dumping you...

    While she's marrying the man of her dreams!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    Whatever happened to fact-checking. ;)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Eric Weinstein is a bit eccentric

    Agreed.

    The fact they're talking about it is quite logical really. There are a plethora of mundane reasons why it makes sense to talk about it - none of which mean that The Truth Is Out There.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    MaxPB said:

    Also, I think certain people need to give up on the idea that this next thing will be the final nail in the coffin for Boris. First it was wallpaper, then it was who bought his shopping, then it was that he had a CCJ, then it was "people of talent", then it was "bodies piled high" and so on.

    The desperation of some to see Boris fall is leading them to poor judgement over how serious specific situations actually are. This latest one with Dom will be just like the rest and the same people will start ramping the next guardian story.

    Possibly, but even political geniuses can only defy gravity for so long. There are a few fanbois on here who want to believe that Boris Johnson is a political genius, and maybe one can defy all normal rules of leadership in politics, but in my humblest opinion he is not.

    At the moment all people care about is the vaccination program and government support, both of which the government (which is nominally "led" by the disorganised Mr. Johnson) has done well on.

    Johnson will get his comeuppance after the pandemic. It is not a question of if, it is a question of when. How long? who knows?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anyone who thought the wallpaper story would damage Boris needs to get their political antennae recalibrated.

    Anyone who thinks it doesn't matter that he lies like a flatfish needs to get their moral compass recalibrated.
    Just noting re this dialogue that the issue of what is the case, and what should be the case are both interesting but are different discussions.

    What is the case and what you predict will be the case is politics (and betting!). What should be the case is philosophy.

    I know what is the case and I wouldn't presume to say what should be the case. My view is that it's bad for prime ministers to lie. But there are enough people in particular on PB who would say "but he's winning elections" to indicate that my view is not too widely shared.

    Do I think it will all come crashing down for BoJo? Yes, yes I do.

    Do I know why/when/how? No, no I don't.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    E) Entirely mundane and much ado about nothing but getting blown up on the internet by conspiracy theorists - and the media gets a clickbaity story to talk about.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Again we have the media wanking themselves into a frenzy over a book commission, when we have a really serious international incident.
    BREAKING: Belarus expels all Latvian diplomatic and administrative staff from embassy in Minsk. All must leave within 48 hours

    https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1396847451575832577?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    But the listing was incorrect, no?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MaxPB said:

    Also, I think certain people need to give up on the idea that this next thing will be the final nail in the coffin for Boris. First it was wallpaper, then it was who bought his shopping, then it was that he had a CCJ, then it was "people of talent", then it was "bodies piled high" and so on.

    The desperation of some to see Boris fall is leading them to poor judgement over how serious specific situations actually are. This latest one with Dom will be just like the rest and the same people will start ramping the next guardian story.

    The latest tactic on here is to plant a far fetched seed of doubt in the post's sign off... a bit like responding to someone saying Man City are a good bet for next years Prem at 4/5 by saying "Ah yes that's all well and good right now when they have been playing better than everyone else, but what if Guardiola leaves, Ruben Dias breaks a leg, and KdB decides to retire" and thinking that isn't already in the price

    Where did the betting folk go?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    RobD said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    Whatever happened to fact-checking. ;)
    The FT story about covid testing tells you all you need to know about how little fsct checking is done by the media these days...a totally bollocks story, that just sounded total bollocks, but FT ran it and every media organization copied and pasted it without anybody even thinking that doesn't sound a realistic number, should we double check this.....nah its in the FT, has to be true.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    RobD said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    But the listing was incorrect, no?
    The release date being "December 2035" suggests that someone at the publishers set the new release date as far in the future as the Amazon system would let them, rather than cancel the listing entirely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    An explanation of why all the UFO footage is so crap. It's a by-product of the tech used by the aliens


    https://www.uaptheory.com/


    "We wish to give a qualitative explanation on what the propulsion system likely does. As sketched above, we are dealing with applied quantum gravity. This means it is using a unified description of reality and all of its interactions (aka forces). "

    The breakdown of the Puerto Rico video is particularly interesting


    "This is a Homeland Security leaked thermal video from April 25th, 2013, 9:20 pm local time (it was entirely dark) filmed by a DHC-8 Turboprop aircraft controlled by the US Customs and Border Protection. The airport’s radar showed around 50-ish objects out at sea to the north of the airport that appeared and disappeared repeatedly (possibly fewer objects that kept diving in and out of the sea). Visually, one object was spotted by the plane and the airport tower as a pinkish-white light. As the object moved into the airport’s airspace, the light was turned off and visual contact was lost. From that point on, the infrared system was used to track and record the object."

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Leon said:

    An explanation of why all the UFO footage is so crap. It's a by-product of the tech used by the aliens


    https://www.uaptheory.com/


    "We wish to give a qualitative explanation on what the propulsion system likely does. As sketched above, we are dealing with applied quantum gravity. This means it is using a unified description of reality and all of its interactions (aka forces). "

    The breakdown of the Puerto Rico video is particularly interesting


    "This is a Homeland Security leaked thermal video from April 25th, 2013, 9:20 pm local time (it was entirely dark) filmed by a DHC-8 Turboprop aircraft controlled by the US Customs and Border Protection. The airport’s radar showed around 50-ish objects out at sea to the north of the airport that appeared and disappeared repeatedly (possibly fewer objects that kept diving in and out of the sea). Visually, one object was spotted by the plane and the airport tower as a pinkish-white light. As the object moved into the airport’s airspace, the light was turned off and visual contact was lost. From that point on, the infrared system was used to track and record the object."

    lol
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited May 2021

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    Not speculation by me, I posted straight away links to the book supposedly coming out 2016...now 2036...which exactly with what the publisher has said.

    Again f##king journalist...all they had to do with search the book id.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    felix said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    Oh well Scott another waste of a dozen feverish posts. Never mind.
    Was "the Churchill Factor' a success? I thought it was generally regarded as suitable as a doorstop or something like that.
    I stupidity bought it. Absolutely crap. The title was obviously thought of after he had cut and pasted the rest of it and then there is a short section where he has obviously retrospectively tried to make the title relevant to capitalise on the then popularity of the X-factor. Worst historical biography I have ever read, by a long way.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    An explanation of why all the UFO footage is so crap. It's a by-product of the tech used by the aliens


    https://www.uaptheory.com/


    "We wish to give a qualitative explanation on what the propulsion system likely does. As sketched above, we are dealing with applied quantum gravity. This means it is using a unified description of reality and all of its interactions (aka forces). "

    The breakdown of the Puerto Rico video is particularly interesting


    "This is a Homeland Security leaked thermal video from April 25th, 2013, 9:20 pm local time (it was entirely dark) filmed by a DHC-8 Turboprop aircraft controlled by the US Customs and Border Protection. The airport’s radar showed around 50-ish objects out at sea to the north of the airport that appeared and disappeared repeatedly (possibly fewer objects that kept diving in and out of the sea). Visually, one object was spotted by the plane and the airport tower as a pinkish-white light. As the object moved into the airport’s airspace, the light was turned off and visual contact was lost. From that point on, the infrared system was used to track and record the object."

    lol
    I know. Parts of this are like the most brilliant, enormous joke. I am treating it as such, while reserving 5% of my brain for the extreme possibility that... they are HERE
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    RobD said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    But the listing was incorrect, no?
    Correct but premature?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    But the listing was incorrect, no?
    The release date being "December 2035" suggests that someone at the publishers set the new release date as far in the future as the Amazon system would let them, rather than cancel the listing entirely.
    When I was young I got hooked on the Robert Jordan series Wheel of Time - but at that point only six books had been published. Every couple of years another would get published, so I used to sometimes ask at the bookstore if they had a date yet for the next book? Until eventually realising that the date they often had at first was just a placeholder and not the real date.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    That was by a journalist, I don't think HMG were boasting about that.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,225

    felix said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    Oh well Scott another waste of a dozen feverish posts. Never mind.
    Was "the Churchill Factor' a success? I thought it was generally regarded as suitable as a doorstop or something like that.
    I stupidity bought it. Absolutely crap. The title was obviously thought of after he had cut and pasted the rest of it and then there is a short section where he has obviously retrospectively tried to make the title relevant to capitalise on the then popularity of the X-factor. Worst historical biography I have ever read, by a long way.
    I’m looking forward to his Shakespeare biography being just as bad. The man doesn’t have the focus required to write any kind of in-depth work. (Most people don’t of course, but in general they don’t believe they ought to be writing biographies of well known historical figures.)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    That's fine because if you listen to what people like Obama have actually said, rather than what you wish they had said, you'd realise there's no story there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited May 2021

    RobD said:

    Looks like the media have shot their load again.....onto the next scandal.

    UPDATE: On the Amazon listing, the publishers say this is a mistake and they have not scheduled the book to be released “in the foreseeable future”:


    “After the success of Boris Johnson’s The Churchill Factor, which was published in 2014, Hodder & Stoughton contracted him to write a book about Shakespeare, originally planning to tie in with the Shakespeare anniversary in 2016. When Boris Johnson became Foreign Secretary we agreed that we would delay publication until a more suitable time, and we have not scheduled the book to be released in the foreseeable future

    So the Amazon listing was real and not uploaded by a political opponent, as had been speculated.
    But the listing was incorrect, no?
    The release date being "December 2035" suggests that someone at the publishers set the new release date as far in the future as the Amazon system would let them, rather than cancel the listing entirely.
    When I was young I got hooked on the Robert Jordan series Wheel of Time - but at that point only six books had been published. Every couple of years another would get published, so I used to sometimes ask at the bookstore if they had a date yet for the next book? Until eventually realising that the date they often had at first was just a placeholder and not the real date.
    Mr Game of Thrones appears to see those dates as not possibilities, but ones to definitely miss....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
    The department was required to publish a report into this in a recent coronavirus relief act. How seriously former US presidents are taking it is another question.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OMG Obama has revealed aliens exist and they "exercise strict control over us" and "tell us what to say".

    https://youtu.be/EYzRY2XpLBk

    From 2015.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    That was by a journalist, I don't think HMG were boasting about that.
    And the FT is not exactly known as a Boris Boosting organisation. I think the contrast was with the EU/member states who seem to be having a Rodin Moment vs doing the sensible minimum.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,009
    Just opened a bottle of Glenmorangie to celebrate the start of the end of lockdown.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    edited May 2021
    Fewer than 6 deaths per day over the last week. Three reported today. It's over.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    Leon said:

    An explanation of why all the UFO footage is so crap. It's a by-product of the tech used by the aliens


    https://www.uaptheory.com/


    "We wish to give a qualitative explanation on what the propulsion system likely does. As sketched above, we are dealing with applied quantum gravity. This means it is using a unified description of reality and all of its interactions (aka forces). "

    The breakdown of the Puerto Rico video is particularly interesting


    "This is a Homeland Security leaked thermal video from April 25th, 2013, 9:20 pm local time (it was entirely dark) filmed by a DHC-8 Turboprop aircraft controlled by the US Customs and Border Protection. The airport’s radar showed around 50-ish objects out at sea to the north of the airport that appeared and disappeared repeatedly (possibly fewer objects that kept diving in and out of the sea). Visually, one object was spotted by the plane and the airport tower as a pinkish-white light. As the object moved into the airport’s airspace, the light was turned off and visual contact was lost. From that point on, the infrared system was used to track and record the object."

    Why are they not making landfall and trying to meet us/blowing shit up?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,001
    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anyone who thought the wallpaper story would damage Boris needs to get their political antennae recalibrated.

    Anyone who thinks it doesn't matter that he lies like a flatfish needs to get their moral compass recalibrated.
    Just noting re this dialogue that the issue of what is the case, and what should be the case are both interesting but are different discussions.

    What is the case and what you predict will be the case is politics (and betting!). What should be the case is philosophy.

    I know what is the case and I wouldn't presume to say what should be the case. My view is that it's bad for prime ministers to lie. But there are enough people in particular on PB who would say "but he's winning elections" to indicate that my view is not too widely shared.

    Do I think it will all come crashing down for BoJo? Yes, yes I do.

    Do I know why/when/how? No, no I don't.
    The last bit is the grim fascination. It's possible that BoJo will continue to defy gravity, and survive attacks that would fell lesser men. It's also possible that someone else will be PM by Michaelmas.

    To an extent, that's true of all PMs. Remember the Maygasm, Gordo's triumphant takeover, or Major's golden honeymoon. All of them turned to dust and ashes.

    As an experimental scientist, I put error bars on measurements.

    Boris will last five years. Plus or minus five years.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,974

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Again we have the media wanking themselves into a frenzy over a book commission, when we have a really serious international incident.
    BREAKING: Belarus expels all Latvian diplomatic and administrative staff from embassy in Minsk. All must leave within 48 hours

    https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1396847451575832577?s=20
    Bearing in mind the Lufthansa flight shenanigans it looks like Minsk is trying to pick a fight, rather than to calm things down after snatching the guy they were after.

    I can't work out what their objective is.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675

    I expect when Boris does go it will be quick and at the hands of his party, but he will be replaced by someone who does not look backwards and nostalgically at the days of our former membership of the EU

    Whoever takes over will spend their entire leadership on damage control, trying to repair the fallout from Brexit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Leon said:

    An explanation of why all the UFO footage is so crap. It's a by-product of the tech used by the aliens


    https://www.uaptheory.com/


    "We wish to give a qualitative explanation on what the propulsion system likely does. As sketched above, we are dealing with applied quantum gravity. This means it is using a unified description of reality and all of its interactions (aka forces). "

    The breakdown of the Puerto Rico video is particularly interesting


    "This is a Homeland Security leaked thermal video from April 25th, 2013, 9:20 pm local time (it was entirely dark) filmed by a DHC-8 Turboprop aircraft controlled by the US Customs and Border Protection. The airport’s radar showed around 50-ish objects out at sea to the north of the airport that appeared and disappeared repeatedly (possibly fewer objects that kept diving in and out of the sea). Visually, one object was spotted by the plane and the airport tower as a pinkish-white light. As the object moved into the airport’s airspace, the light was turned off and visual contact was lost. From that point on, the infrared system was used to track and record the object."

    Apparently the reason US Presidents have not declassified the UFO files is not because they show anything about UFOs but because they would reveal information about experiments the US military did using nuclear bombs and POWs as test subjects

    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2021/05/todays-blind-items-too-easy.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
    Obama was yes. He was laughing too when he said it. In normal discourse that's considered a tell. 😂
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    Scott_xP said:

    I expect when Boris does go it will be quick and at the hands of his party, but he will be replaced by someone who does not look backwards and nostalgically at the days of our former membership of the EU

    Whoever takes over will spend their entire leadership on damage control, trying to repair the fallout from Brexit
    Nonsense
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    Oh indeed!

    We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do,
    We've got the vaccines, we've got the furlough, we've got the moneytree too,
    We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true,
    The Russians SHALL have Constantinople, and Novichok too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Again we have the media wanking themselves into a frenzy over a book commission, when we have a really serious international incident.
    BREAKING: Belarus expels all Latvian diplomatic and administrative staff from embassy in Minsk. All must leave within 48 hours

    https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1396847451575832577?s=20
    Bearing in mind the Lufthansa flight shenanigans it looks like Minsk is trying to pick a fight, rather than to calm things down after snatching the guy they were after.

    I can't work out what their objective is.
    Sometimes we overestimate the cleverness of opponents and assume there's more rationality than perhaps there is.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    E) Entirely mundane and much ado about nothing but getting blown up on the internet by conspiracy theorists - and the media gets a clickbaity story to talk about.
    Well it's clearly not that - the mere fact that senior US government people are talking about it when before they'd go out of their way not to is interesting and raises it above 'entirely mundane and a lot of fuss about nothing'.

    I don't think it's aliens, because I think a) aliens are far away, and b) faster than light travel is impossible. I may be wrong about either, but I think both are reasonably held beliefs from the information I have. BUT clearly something is going on, even if that something is 'only' senior US government officials openly speculating about UAPs. What has changed to bring this about?

    Big question to answer #1 - if not aliens, then what?
    Big question to answer #2 - why is this happening now?
    Big question to answer #3 - why is this only happening to Americans?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    LOL. Reminds me of the NotW headlines on consecutive days: "747 Seen on Surface of Moon!" "747 Disappears from Moon!"
    Sunday Sport? NotW was a serious newspaper. By coincidence, I've just been leafing through the 7/3/04 edition which "exposes" a jockey on the front page, footballers and rape allegations inside, Blair/Caplin, a column from William Hague, and so on.
    You are right, and I misremembered the headline:

    https://mdarticles2000.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/bizm3uziqaapj4g.jpg
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    The BBC seems absolutely stuffed with people convinced that they are one of the good guys.
    Most organisations are like that. It doesn't help when we deify them so that they think they are beyond challenge. See the NHS for example which has a terrible record for treatment of whistleblowers and the scandals that became worse because no-one would admit they were wrong.

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.
    Systems are not at fault. Though bad systems help people make bad choices. It is people who make mistakes. And the biggest problem is that people are very very good indeed at self-deception. How to create a culture, systems the sort of moral courage which minimises this tremendous - probably necessary - talent which each of us has is the 64 billion dollar question. Recognising that we do deceive ourselves is the first step.

    Saying "I'm a good guy. It's all down to him over there" is the biggest self-deception of the lot. Until we recognise that each of us is - and can be - a sinner, we'll get nowhere.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anyone who thought the wallpaper story would damage Boris needs to get their political antennae recalibrated.

    Anyone who thinks it doesn't matter that he lies like a flatfish needs to get their moral compass recalibrated.
    Just noting re this dialogue that the issue of what is the case, and what should be the case are both interesting but are different discussions.

    What is the case and what you predict will be the case is politics (and betting!). What should be the case is philosophy.

    I know what is the case and I wouldn't presume to say what should be the case. My view is that it's bad for prime ministers to lie. But there are enough people in particular on PB who would say "but he's winning elections" to indicate that my view is not too widely shared.

    Do I think it will all come crashing down for BoJo? Yes, yes I do.

    Do I know why/when/how? No, no I don't.
    The last bit is the grim fascination. It's possible that BoJo will continue to defy gravity, and survive attacks that would fell lesser men. It's also possible that someone else will be PM by Michaelmas.

    To an extent, that's true of all PMs. Remember the Maygasm, Gordo's triumphant takeover, or Major's golden honeymoon. All of them turned to dust and ashes.

    As an experimental scientist, I put error bars on measurements.

    Boris will last five years. Plus or minus five years.
    I think that either a new PM craters early on, and then limps along to the next election. Or survives and does at least a full term and a half.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    E) Entirely mundane and much ado about nothing but getting blown up on the internet by conspiracy theorists - and the media gets a clickbaity story to talk about.
    Well it's clearly not that - the mere fact that senior US government people are talking about it when before they'd go out of their way not to is interesting and raises it above 'entirely mundane and a lot of fuss about nothing'.

    I don't think it's aliens, because I think a) aliens are far away, and b) faster than light travel is impossible. I may be wrong about either, but I think both are reasonably held beliefs from the information I have. BUT clearly something is going on, even if that something is 'only' senior US government officials openly speculating about UAPs. What has changed to bring this about?

    Big question to answer #1 - if not aliens, then what?
    Big question to answer #2 - why is this happening now?
    Big question to answer #3 - why is this only happening to Americans?
    They wouldn't talk about it in the past because it ventured into the fields of classified military technology during the Cold War and it was easier to just shut down the conversation.

    They are talking about it now (and have for years) because the internet means it's not possible to just shut down the conversation. Plus with the rise of video editing technology it will appear more and more often online.

    "We are keeping this under review" works for 2021 better than 1961. But it doesn't actually mean anything.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
    Obama was yes. He was laughing too when he said it. In normal discourse that's considered a tell. 😂
    But that in itself is an interesting story, no? Why would he go on a low-stakes chat show and lie? For the lolz?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    I am not sure whether you were being ironic, but @BluestBlue thought you weren't by jingo!!! Anyone who thought braindead jingoism is in the past need to come on here a few times. Hilarious. The same types who always run a mile at the first sign of danger or the smell of cordite.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    NatWest faces 'significant' damage to reputation as it becomes first bank to appear in court on criminal charges over money laundering, lawyers say.
    Did not take long from it returning to old ownership openly ( not that it was not always NATWEST ) to get into trouble.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
    Obama was yes. He was laughing too when he said it. In normal discourse that's considered a tell. 😂
    But that in itself is an interesting story, no? Why would he go on a low-stakes chat show and lie? For the lolz?
    He didn't lie. He made jokes. That's what people do on a comedy show.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    "BATTLESHIP" SEEN OVER THE MOON

    月面の上空の飛行物体が地球からの拡大レンズで見えるということは、実物は相当に巨大な
    宇宙戦艦の可能性もある❗

    The fact that a flying object over the moon can be seen with a magnifying lens from the earth may mean that the real thing is a fairly huge space battleship.❗


    https://twitter.com/EA_souken/status/1396787654889402370?s=20

    What do you think they are waiting for?

    They have obviously been around us for some time. Just looking. Why do you suppose they haven't made contact/destroyed a continent or two/asked to be taken to our leaders?
    I agree with THIS guy

    "I can't weight the probabilities anymore. This is:
    A) Aliens
    B) Some unknown physical phenomenon that we're now documenting
    C) A sophisticated misinformation campaign
    C1) by the US government to fool enemies
    C2) by another government to fool the US
    D) Something, I don't know what"



    https://twitter.com/Cyber_Spock/status/1396648720121229313?s=20

    This story is so mind boggling I just can't get to grips with it. But something very odd is happening
    What happened to faked by people living in their mother's basements?
    Generally, former Directors of the CIA, senior US Senators and former US Presidents like Obama don't get fooled by those
    No, but the media certainly do/would.
    All all these senators and CIA chiefs and Obama joking, then?
    Obama was yes. He was laughing too when he said it. In normal discourse that's considered a tell. 😂
    But that in itself is an interesting story, no? Why would he go on a low-stakes chat show and lie? For the lolz?
    For the lolz lolly.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    The BBC seems absolutely stuffed with people convinced that they are one of the good guys.
    Most organisations are like that. It doesn't help when we deify them so that they think they are beyond challenge. See the NHS for example which has a terrible record for treatment of whistleblowers and the scandals that became worse because no-one would admit they were wrong.

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.
    Systems are not at fault. Though bad systems help people make bad choices. It is people who make mistakes. And the biggest problem is that people are very very good indeed at self-deception. How to create a culture, systems the sort of moral courage which minimises this tremendous - probably necessary - talent which each of us has is the 64 billion dollar question. Recognising that we do deceive ourselves is the first step.

    Saying "I'm a good guy. It's all down to him over there" is the biggest self-deception of the lot. Until we recognise that each of us is - and can be - a sinner, we'll get nowhere.
    By a system I mean the social system/structure within the company. To break such a consensus means going to war with other people around you - and above.

    Hence space launch companies which internally *really believe* that SpaceX isn't eating their lunch.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Another Boris conspiracy theory got an outing today....

    Labour MP Valerie Vaz appeared to question how seriously ill PM was with Covid

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9613417/Fury-Labour-MP-Valerie-Vaz-suggests-PMs-Covid-scare-exaggerated.html

    Despite the nurse who looked after him and who isn't a fan of the Boris to say the least, saying he was really was in a very bad way...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Again we have the media wanking themselves into a frenzy over a book commission, when we have a really serious international incident.
    BREAKING: Belarus expels all Latvian diplomatic and administrative staff from embassy in Minsk. All must leave within 48 hours

    https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1396847451575832577?s=20
    Bearing in mind the Lufthansa flight shenanigans it looks like Minsk is trying to pick a fight, rather than to calm things down after snatching the guy they were after.

    I can't work out what their objective is.
    I’d guess their official narrative is they’re being attacked by terrorists and they’re doing everything possible to protect the good Belarusian people from those who seek to destroy them.

    Standard autocrat shite.

    Conflate dissenters with enemies of the state / enemies of the people / Inflate the threat etc etc.

    Imagine Paul Dacre was PM. That kind of narrative.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995

    Taz said:

    It’s going to be like the final episode of Seinfeld. A big let down.

    I'm really looking forward to it for two reasons.

    1) The people who said last April time that Dom Cummings is a man of unimpeachable integrity, we should believe every word he says and now will tell us to ignore what he says because he's always been a fantasist with an axe to grind

    and

    2) The people who said last April time that Dom Cummings is a liar and fantasist but now we should believe everything he says.

    You don't get to see that epic level of reverse ferreting very often.
    Well I am conflicted. This time last year I believed Cummings to be an unreliable barsteward. I still think him an unreliable barsteward, although now I would like to believe him.

    Some evidential proof, like recordings and lots of them would be nice... although could Johnson confiscate them at the door on GDPR grounds?. Dom had better make some copies.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    I am not sure whether you were being ironic, but @BluestBlue thought you weren't by jingo!!! Anyone who thought braindead jingoism is in the past need to come on here a few times. Hilarious. The same types who always run a mile at the first sign of danger or the smell of cordite.
    Being the first to announce action against Belarus is not jingoism, it is the right think to do
    Oh you were not being ironic!! FFS! What has being first got to do with it?!!!! How about getting it right, or does that not matter in the age of Bozo Johnson?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    I am not sure whether you were being ironic, but @BluestBlue thought you weren't by jingo!!! Anyone who thought braindead jingoism is in the past need to come on here a few times. Hilarious. The same types who always run a mile at the first sign of danger or the smell of cordite.
    Nigel, you spent your own money on a book by Boris and expected it to be one of the great magisterial historical biographies. I think you need to sit and ponder the implications of that for a moment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.

    Cyclefree's Foolproof Guide to The 10 Stages of a Crisis


    1. People turn a blind eye.
    2. People can’t believe it.
    3. People refuse to believe it.
    4. People accept that something has gone wrong but insist that it is limited to “1 or 2 bad apples”.
    5. When it becomes clear that it is not 1 or 2, stages 1, 2 and 3 are repeated.
    6. A limited inquiry is started in the hope that this will sort matters out. It won’t.
    7. People become more concerned with protecting the institution rather than dealing with what is wrong.
    8. The non-apology apology.
    9. Eventually ….. a much more extensive investigation is done and remedial measures are taken.
    10. Alas ….. the institution is dealing with the continuing fall-out from the previous failures for a long time after it has cleaned itself up.
    Hmmm - you've left out

    "Lessons will be learned" - Stop irritating us with the past. We are all good now.
    "Appropriate action will be taken" - some junior people in the shit. Senior people move to a higher paid job elsewhere.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.

    Cyclefree's Foolproof Guide to The 10 Stages of a Crisis


    1. People turn a blind eye.
    2. People can’t believe it.
    3. People refuse to believe it.
    4. People accept that something has gone wrong but insist that it is limited to “1 or 2 bad apples”.
    5. When it becomes clear that it is not 1 or 2, stages 1, 2 and 3 are repeated.
    6. A limited inquiry is started in the hope that this will sort matters out. It won’t.
    7. People become more concerned with protecting the institution rather than dealing with what is wrong.
    8. The non-apology apology.
    9. Eventually ….. a much more extensive investigation is done and remedial measures are taken.
    10. Alas ….. the institution is dealing with the continuing fall-out from the previous failures for a long time after it has cleaned itself up.
    Hmmm - you've left out

    "Lessons will be learned" - Stop irritating us with the past. We are all good now.
    "Appropriate action will be taken" - some junior people in the shit. Senior people move to a higher paid job elsewhere.
    I think those come under 8 and 9 respectively.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    England PCR positivity %

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK Case summary

    image
    image
    image
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    malcolmg said:

    NatWest faces 'significant' damage to reputation as it becomes first bank to appear in court on criminal charges over money laundering, lawyers say.
    Did not take long from it returning to old ownership openly ( not that it was not always NATWEST ) to get into trouble.

    When did NatWest/RBS recover a reputation to lose?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK deaths

    image
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    I am not sure whether you were being ironic, but @BluestBlue thought you weren't by jingo!!! Anyone who thought braindead jingoism is in the past need to come on here a few times. Hilarious. The same types who always run a mile at the first sign of danger or the smell of cordite.
    Being the first to announce action against Belarus is not jingoism, it is the right think to do
    Oh you were not being ironic!! FFS! What has being first got to do with it?!!!! How about getting it right, or does that not matter in the age of Bozo Johnson?
    It is right

    To be honest I do not see your point other than your intense dislike of Boris
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK Hospitals

    image
    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited May 2021
    The uttering of "lessons will be learned"....needs to be banned....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK R

    image
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2021/may/liverpool-man-latest-to-be-jailed-as-part-of-national-operation-venetic/

    A man identified through a picture of a block of cheese has become the latest in Merseyside to be jailed in connection with an international operation targeting criminals who used a mobile encryption service to try to evade detection.

    Carl Stewart, 39, of Gem Street, Liverpool was sentenced to 13 years and six months in prison at Liverpool Crown Court today (Friday, 21 May). He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to supply cocaine, conspiracy to supply heroin, conspiracy to supply MDMA, conspiracy to supply ketamine and transferring criminal property.

    Stewart used the handle ‘Toffeeforce’ on encrochat and supplied large amounts of class A and B drugs.

    He was identified after sharing an image on his encro device of a block of cheese in the palm of his hand, from which his fingerprints were analysed.

    Photo in press release.

    Pretty cool stuff.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.

    Cyclefree's Foolproof Guide to The 10 Stages of a Crisis


    1. People turn a blind eye.
    2. People can’t believe it.
    3. People refuse to believe it.
    4. People accept that something has gone wrong but insist that it is limited to “1 or 2 bad apples”.
    5. When it becomes clear that it is not 1 or 2, stages 1, 2 and 3 are repeated.
    6. A limited inquiry is started in the hope that this will sort matters out. It won’t.
    7. People become more concerned with protecting the institution rather than dealing with what is wrong.
    8. The non-apology apology.
    9. Eventually ….. a much more extensive investigation is done and remedial measures are taken.
    10. Alas ….. the institution is dealing with the continuing fall-out from the previous failures for a long time after it has cleaned itself up.
    Hmmm - you've left out

    "Lessons will be learned" - Stop irritating us with the past. We are all good now.
    "Appropriate action will be taken" - some junior people in the shit. Senior people move to a higher paid job elsewhere.
    I think those come under 8 and 9 respectively.
    Or 4. And 7.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited May 2021
    Chameleon said:

    https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2021/may/liverpool-man-latest-to-be-jailed-as-part-of-national-operation-venetic/

    A man identified through a picture of a block of cheese has become the latest in Merseyside to be jailed in connection with an international operation targeting criminals who used a mobile encryption service to try to evade detection.

    Carl Stewart, 39, of Gem Street, Liverpool was sentenced to 13 years and six months in prison at Liverpool Crown Court today (Friday, 21 May). He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to supply cocaine, conspiracy to supply heroin, conspiracy to supply MDMA, conspiracy to supply ketamine and transferring criminal property.

    Stewart used the handle ‘Toffeeforce’ on encrochat and supplied large amounts of class A and B drugs.

    He was identified after sharing an image on his encro device of a block of cheese in the palm of his hand, from which his fingerprints were analysed.

    Photo in press release.

    Pretty cool stuff.

    The busting of Encro-chat has led to so many criminals being prosecuted.

    Not just any drug dealer....an M&S drug dealer....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Age related data scaled to 100k per age group

    image
    image
    image
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,506
    Looks like we're past the peak in Bolton, Blackburn, Bedford and Kirklees:

    https://coviddatashare.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/TableCumulative_Rate_20210524.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    UK vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,145
    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    3m
    Westminster Voting Intention (24 May):

    Conservative 43% (+1)
    Labour 33% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (–)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 6% (+1)

    Tied lowest Lab % since 5/2020

    Changes +/- 17 May
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    CFR

    image
    image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Reality is coming at the Covid “experts” fast

    March 26, 2021 vs May 23, 2021


    https://twitter.com/TheEliKlein/status/1396506132500422657?s=20
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,073
    Anyone think LibDems at 18 in Chesham and Amersham is a bit big?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995

    RobD said:

    FT Moscow Bureau Chief:

    Say what you like about Brexit, but London has responded before Brussels to the detention of an EU plane operated by an EU airline flying between two EU capitals.

    UK orders British airlines to avoid flying over Belarus and suspends operating permit of Belarus' national airline


    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1396839168995647497?s=20

    Wow, Alexander Lukashenko and Vlad Putin must be petrified with fear at that move.
    What would you have recommended? This is pretty par for the course.
    Not a lot, sadly. It was just the way it was announced on that post as though we had patriotically outdone other countries in our bellicosity, when all we have done is protect our own planes and passengers and banned an airline that probably flies very few flights anyway.
    And when everyone else follows our lead, we have shown the way
    I am not sure whether you were being ironic, but @BluestBlue thought you weren't by jingo!!! Anyone who thought braindead jingoism is in the past need to come on here a few times. Hilarious. The same types who always run a mile at the first sign of danger or the smell of cordite.
    Being the first to announce action against Belarus is not jingoism, it is the right think to do
    Oh you were not being ironic!! FFS! What has being first got to do with it?!!!! How about getting it right, or does that not matter in the age of Bozo Johnson?
    Follow the postings from the same poster in today's earlier thread with that one, and one can compare and contrast the bravery of the great, and victorious warrior king with the simpering and tearful, white flag waving, kneeling appeaser.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Despite Indian Variant slowly replacing Kent - and Germany banning Brits - the ZOE app which logs symptomatic PCR disease is not showing any change in figures for last two weeks (still low at 2000-3000 cases/d) or signs it is spreading beyond the hotspots nationally. So good news

    https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1396860214125682693?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.

    Cyclefree's Foolproof Guide to The 10 Stages of a Crisis


    1. People turn a blind eye.
    2. People can’t believe it.
    3. People refuse to believe it.
    4. People accept that something has gone wrong but insist that it is limited to “1 or 2 bad apples”.
    5. When it becomes clear that it is not 1 or 2, stages 1, 2 and 3 are repeated.
    6. A limited inquiry is started in the hope that this will sort matters out. It won’t.
    7. People become more concerned with protecting the institution rather than dealing with what is wrong.
    8. The non-apology apology.
    9. Eventually ….. a much more extensive investigation is done and remedial measures are taken.
    10. Alas ….. the institution is dealing with the continuing fall-out from the previous failures for a long time after it has cleaned itself up.
    Hmmm - you've left out

    "Lessons will be learned" - Stop irritating us with the past. We are all good now.
    "Appropriate action will be taken" - some junior people in the shit. Senior people move to a higher paid job elsewhere.
    I think those come under 8 and 9 respectively.
    8 - no, someone must utter the Dread Words
    9 - no, that's more like 6, really.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Incredibly hostile reaction to the media at the vigil for Sasha Johnson. This man calls me “scum” and accuses me of “not listening” when I was quietly listening right up until he started shouting abuse.

    Then his friend tries to throw water at my iPhone.

    https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1396842853389717506?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    The BBC seems absolutely stuffed with people convinced that they are one of the good guys.
    Most organisations are like that. It doesn't help when we deify them so that they think they are beyond challenge. See the NHS for example which has a terrible record for treatment of whistleblowers and the scandals that became worse because no-one would admit they were wrong.

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.
    Systems are not at fault. Though bad systems help people make bad choices. It is people who make mistakes. And the biggest problem is that people are very very good indeed at self-deception. How to create a culture, systems the sort of moral courage which minimises this tremendous - probably necessary - talent which each of us has is the 64 billion dollar question. Recognising that we do deceive ourselves is the first step.

    Saying "I'm a good guy. It's all down to him over there" is the biggest self-deception of the lot. Until we recognise that each of us is - and can be - a sinner, we'll get nowhere.
    By a system I mean the social system/structure within the company. To break such a consensus means going to war with other people around you - and above.

    Hence space launch companies which internally *really believe* that SpaceX isn't eating their lunch.
    Part of Musk's genius is his eccentricity playing up so he's simultaneously both taken seriously and laughed at by the right people.

    For people who were in the industry too often it was an attitude of "let's all get a good laugh from the eccentric billionaire who claims he's going to Mars" - then suddenly he's got in SpaceX a company with billions in revenue per year and he's left all the others behind for dust.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,692
    geoffw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs.

    Or, to put it another way, Boris will be able to charm and persuade and to manipulate the truth. Until one day, he won't.

    My gut is that Boris will be longer lived than most, but that the charm will start to fade some time shortly after the 2024 election.

    The more interesting question is what happens to the Little England party then.

    Again the comparison with Trump is the template.

    The Republicans should have ditched the loser in January. They didn't.

    When BoZo falls, will the Conservative and Unionist party renounce all things BoZo, or will the Little Englanders continue to carry the torch to oblivion?
    "the comparison with Trump is the template"
    Reagan is a better comparison.

    Is it?

    To come to @contrarian's point about economics being the biggest element, it's worth remembering what Reagan did (and what he benefited from). Essentially, he was at the nexus of three massive forces:

    1. The end of the Middle Eastern pressure on oil prices. In the 70s, OPEC twice threw the West into serious recessions by hiking the price of oil. In the 80s, oil from Alaska, the North Sea, and enhanced oil recovery meant they couldn't do that. In fact throughout the period, you saw commodity prices falling, which was a massive economic benefit to the West.

    plus

    2. The end of inflation. This is related to above: the 80s (not only in the US) saw inflation fall, and saw interest rates fall. A long term falling interest rate environment makes everyone feel richer.

    Then there was what he created: a massive revamp of the US tax system (paid for through enormous deficits) that also put money in peoples' pockets.

    Of course, Reagan also seeded the US's current imbalances, by moving the country from one that (broadly) paid its bills, to one that needed to import metric shit tonnes of capital from abroad to pay for imports of consumer goods.

    Will Boris have similar economic good fortune?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Chameleon said:

    https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2021/may/liverpool-man-latest-to-be-jailed-as-part-of-national-operation-venetic/

    A man identified through a picture of a block of cheese has become the latest in Merseyside to be jailed in connection with an international operation targeting criminals who used a mobile encryption service to try to evade detection.

    Carl Stewart, 39, of Gem Street, Liverpool was sentenced to 13 years and six months in prison at Liverpool Crown Court today (Friday, 21 May). He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to supply cocaine, conspiracy to supply heroin, conspiracy to supply MDMA, conspiracy to supply ketamine and transferring criminal property.

    Stewart used the handle ‘Toffeeforce’ on encrochat and supplied large amounts of class A and B drugs.

    He was identified after sharing an image on his encro device of a block of cheese in the palm of his hand, from which his fingerprints were analysed.

    Photo in press release.

    Pretty cool stuff.

    Evertonian too. Makes you proud...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Despite Indian Variant slowly replacing Kent - and Germany banning Brits - the ZOE app which logs symptomatic PCR disease is not showing any change in figures for last two weeks (still low at 2000-3000 cases/d) or signs it is spreading beyond the hotspots nationally. So good news

    https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1396860214125682693?s=20
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    R4 PM Belarusian guest says official narrative is the pilot “requested” to land at Minsk because Hamas had threatened to blow up the plane.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021
    felix said:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    3m
    Westminster Voting Intention (24 May):

    Conservative 43% (+1)
    Labour 33% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (–)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Other 6% (+1)

    Tied lowest Lab % since 5/2020

    Changes +/- 17 May

    Green Shoots for Sir Keir

    "Keir Starmer’s net approval rating stands at -11%, a one-point increase from last week. 35% disapprove of Keir Starmer’s job performance (no change) while 24% approve (up 1%). Meanwhile, 34% neither approve nor disapprove of Starmer’s job performance.

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s net approval rating is positive for the sixteenth week in a row––this time at +8%, though this represents a two-point decrease from last week and a nine-point decrease from two weeks ago. This week’s poll finds 44% approving of his overall job performance (no change) against 36% disapproving (up 2%)."

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-24-may-2021/

    Boris Gross Positive lead of 20 and net of 19

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    The BBC seems absolutely stuffed with people convinced that they are one of the good guys.
    Most organisations are like that. It doesn't help when we deify them so that they think they are beyond challenge. See the NHS for example which has a terrible record for treatment of whistleblowers and the scandals that became worse because no-one would admit they were wrong.

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Switch on WATO. Banging on about the BBC. Switch off.

    - We're joined in the studio by the BBC's BBC correspondent. What's the latest?
    - Tight lips at the BBC today, Sarah. The BBC is yet to comment on that bombshell BBC Newsnight report.
    - Can the BBC really stay silent on this?
    - I'm hearing rumours that BBC Today is in negotiations with the BBC to secure an interview.
    - Be sure to stay tuned to the BBC for any developments.
    The BBC's own travails are much much less important than Putin's allies hijacking planes.

    Obviously.

    The difficulty is that what has been revealed about BBC culture and governance - not just 25 years ago - but much more recently is pretty awful. And it shows a news gathering organisation for which we all pay which cannot gather news, cannot investigate properly, cannot admit to mistakes, cannot manage, cannot comply with even the most basic standards of integrity, good employment and hiring practice. That is not something to be ignored. It does need to be covered and addressed. But by whom and how.

    If the BBC does not cover it, who will? And if the BBC does not cover it, it will be accused of ignoring its own wrongdoing.

    Did you listen to the interview? Richard Sharp sounded pretty convincing to me.

    He is. But its the permafrost level of management which needs to change and that is very much harder than it seems. Believe me - I have been through this. The man at the top talks about culture change. They mean it too. But getting all the people all the way down to understand what it means and to change what they have been doing and get their teams to do it day in day out is bloody hard work. It takes years. It takes relentless pressure from the top and from outside. It takes buy in at all levels and it takes courage.

    A good interview and a few memos are not enough. Culture change is hard. The hardest part is admitting that you need to do it. The fact that so many are saying that it's all a long time ago and that the managers who covered it up have gone is a sign to me that the people there now don't really get it. They are still in "it's not me guv, I'm one of the good guys" mode, which is a very common human reaction. But the wrong one - even good guys can get stuff wrong. That complacency is one of the problems.
    One of the fascinating things is to watch how companies/organisations can steam steadily into an iceberg and sink, with plenty of foreknowledge and warning.

    It is always down to an internal system where acknowledging the reality is not an option.
    Systems are not at fault. Though bad systems help people make bad choices. It is people who make mistakes. And the biggest problem is that people are very very good indeed at self-deception. How to create a culture, systems the sort of moral courage which minimises this tremendous - probably necessary - talent which each of us has is the 64 billion dollar question. Recognising that we do deceive ourselves is the first step.

    Saying "I'm a good guy. It's all down to him over there" is the biggest self-deception of the lot. Until we recognise that each of us is - and can be - a sinner, we'll get nowhere.
    By a system I mean the social system/structure within the company. To break such a consensus means going to war with other people around you - and above.

    Hence space launch companies which internally *really believe* that SpaceX isn't eating their lunch.
    Part of Musk's genius is his eccentricity playing up so he's simultaneously both taken seriously and laughed at by the right people.

    For people who were in the industry too often it was an attitude of "let's all get a good laugh from the eccentric billionaire who claims he's going to Mars" - then suddenly he's got in SpaceX a company with billions in revenue per year and he's left all the others behind for dust.
    People like Stéphane Israël, of Arianespace, are still telling people *internally* that SpaceX is not really low cost.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197

    Another Boris conspiracy theory got an outing today....

    Labour MP Valerie Vaz appeared to question how seriously ill PM was with Covid

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9613417/Fury-Labour-MP-Valerie-Vaz-suggests-PMs-Covid-scare-exaggerated.html

    Despite the nurse who looked after him and who isn't a fan of the Boris to say the least, saying he was really was in a very bad way...

    Hmmm , a couple of hours on oxygen and working the rest of the time does not sound like he was on his last legs. Ill certainly but it was played for all it was worth, milked to death.
This discussion has been closed.