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Publish and be Damned? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    I NEVER underestimate that

    Boris makes people smile and laugh, and people will forgive almost anything if you make them laugh. Because, if you make them laugh, you are basically giving them a mini-orgasm without the hassle of taking your clothes off or being embarrassed. You are shooting them an endorphin high for free

    It is a massive advantage. He is amusing and witty

    The same goes for personal relationships. I have discovered that the friends I miss most are generally the ones that make me laugh. Even if they are wankers

    You can also make a woman laugh so much she somehow ends up in bed. Which is helpful to know
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    I NEVER underestimate that

    Boris makes people smile and laugh, and people will forgive almost anything if you make them laugh. Because, if you make them laugh, you are basically giving them a mini-orgasm without the hassle of taking your clothes off or being embarrassed. You are shooting them an endorphin high for free

    It is a massive advantage. He is amusing and witty

    The same goes for personal relationships. I have discovered that the friends I miss most are generally the ones that make me laugh. Even if they are wankers

    You can also make a woman laugh so much she somehow ends up in bed. Which is helpful to know
    Yes

    It also has the effect of making his opponents feel like they have to be deadly serious to counter him... so they end up looking like boring, nagging nitpickers prosecuting Del Boy

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/04/prosecuting-del-boy.html
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    I NEVER underestimate that

    Boris makes people smile and laugh, and people will forgive almost anything if you make them laugh. Because, if you make them laugh, you are basically giving them a mini-orgasm without the hassle of taking your clothes off or being embarrassed. You are shooting them an endorphin high for free

    It is a massive advantage. He is amusing and witty

    The same goes for personal relationships. I have discovered that the friends I miss most are generally the ones that make me laugh. Even if they are wankers

    You can also make a woman laugh so much she somehow ends up in bed. Which is helpful to know
    There is something about a smile that is truly infectious. Go into a busy bar, make eye contact with someone (friend or stranger, but especially a pretty girl) and they smile at you and it just makes things better immediately.

    Brown, May and Keir are misery guts. Cameron, Boris and Blair make you smile.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    New Covid variants - is this the plan now that all of them are stubbornly failing to have any serious effect is raising case numbers and scaring people sufficepiently? Every week or so discover a “new variant/mutation” and announce how it is growing rapidly, and will rapidly become “dominant”. Then rinse and repeat once it maxes out at a few thousand cases.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    Its not about jokes alone, but making you smile.

    Mrs T is before my time really, I was a child then, so I'll defer to others about whether she made people smile or not at the time.

    Hague could tell jokes, but he was against Blair who could also tell jokes too and Hague couldn't be more optimistic and positive than Blair. Its worth thinking the one time Hague got close to Blair was during the fuel crisis, when things got very serious and Teflon Tony wasn't able to bat his way out of that one with remarks about being a pretty straight kind of guy etc
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2021

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021
    GMB host calling Patel an Uncle Tom...how dare the daughter of an immigrant want the immigration rules to be enforced.

    https://twitter.com/adilray/status/1395339445700792320?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928

    Another person calling Patel an Uncle Tom...

    https://twitter.com/adilray/status/1395339445700792320?s=20

    I'm not sure what their point is. Didn't she and her family enter legally?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    In my adult lifetime, I've also - coincidentally - known three US presidents with great charisma

    Reagan, Clinton, Obama

    All three won big. It is an important thing
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021
    Leon said:

    In my adult lifetime, I've also - coincidentally - known three US presidents with great charisma

    Reagan, Clinton, Obama

    All three won big. It is an important thing

    I'd say four: Regrettably Trump had it too.

    It wasn't enough to allow him to beat Biden (who does not have it) because his deep flaws and failures were insurmountable especially with Covid, but it allowed him to get much closer than he should have got. It was enough to allow him to beat Hillary (who also does not have it), despite his being a far inferior candidate to her.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    If it wasn't for Iraq - and Gordon Brown - I do wonder how many terms Blair could have won. Four?

    DESPITE the utter catastrophe of Iraq Blair remained personally popular, for years afterwards, so.... without it?

    The Tories are "lucky" that he destroyed himself. He was a brilliant politician, and still is - but now absurdly silenced and exiled by his party
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    GMB host calling Patel an Uncle Tom...how dare the daughter of an immigrant want the immigration rules to be enforced.

    https://twitter.com/adilray/status/1395339445700792320?s=20

    He should thank his lucky stars she’s not after him for crimes against comedy
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    isam said:

    GMB host calling Patel an Uncle Tom...how dare the daughter of an immigrant want the immigration rules to be enforced.

    https://twitter.com/adilray/status/1395339445700792320?s=20

    He should thank his lucky stars she’s not after him for crimes against comedy
    Be interesting to see what the ratings are like now Piers Moron has gone. I have a feeling downhill....rapidly...
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    If it wasn't for Iraq - and Gordon Brown - I do wonder how many terms Blair could have won. Four?

    DESPITE the utter catastrophe of Iraq Blair remained personally popular, for years afterwards, so.... without it?

    The Tories are "lucky" that he destroyed himself. He was a brilliant politician, and still is - but now absurdly silenced and exiled by his party
    The recession would have done for him. Recessions do for everybody.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Leon said:

    In my adult lifetime, I've also - coincidentally - known three US presidents with great charisma

    Reagan, Clinton, Obama

    All three won big. It is an important thing

    I'd say four: Regrettably Trump had it too.

    It wasn't enough to allow him to beat Biden (who does not have it) because his deep flaws and failures were insurmountable especially with Covid, but it allowed him to get much closer than he should have got. It was enough to allow him to beat Hillary (who also does not have it), despite his being a far inferior candidate to her.
    Actually Hillary beat him by 3 million votes!

    (runs and hides)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    If it wasn't for Iraq - and Gordon Brown - I do wonder how many terms Blair could have won. Four?

    DESPITE the utter catastrophe of Iraq Blair remained personally popular, for years afterwards, so.... without it?

    The Tories are "lucky" that he destroyed himself. He was a brilliant politician, and still is - but now absurdly silenced and exiled by his party
    The recession would have done for him. Recessions do for everybody.
    Not true. Major won after a recession.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    If it wasn't for Iraq - and Gordon Brown - I do wonder how many terms Blair could have won. Four?

    DESPITE the utter catastrophe of Iraq Blair remained personally popular, for years afterwards, so.... without it?

    The Tories are "lucky" that he destroyed himself. He was a brilliant politician, and still is - but now absurdly silenced and exiled by his party
    The recession would have done for him. Recessions do for everybody.
    Yes, quite possibly

    Also, Brown kept Blair out of the euro, Blair would have taken us in otherwise. That would likely have been calamitous. So absenting Brown from the equation changes the political balance

    On the other hand, without Iraq Blair would have remained a hero in his party, Labour would have remained centrist = no Corbyn, probably no Brexit, and a very different history for Britain
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    It is May 21.
    NOW it's May 21!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    We've had quite a bit of warm sun here in Scotland over the last week, as well as showers (though grey and wet most of today). What was that you were saying about shite Scottish weather and the superiority of the London climate?
    All too true. The southeast has been the worst for sun and warmth this year. Nagging north easterlies: UGH

    What's worse, the pattern seems set in stone. The promised warm-up STILL recedes

    It is just as bad across NW Europe

    Amsterdam:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2759794

    Sunshine for the last few days in Cumbria. My bit of it anyway. Though rain today.

    Incidentally I am sure you have noticed that my recent headers have been fully 25% shorter than before.Yes - a whole TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT! Yay!

    Do I get a personalised knint flaps or whatever it is you make from you as reward? I do hope so. 😉
    Don't think I've had a chance to ask since it happened. How did your daughter's pub's reopening go? Well, I hope.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    It is May 21.
    NOW it's May 21!
    It has been May 21 for three weeks.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    It is May 21.
    NOW it's May 21!
    It has been May 21 for three weeks.
    No, you are thinking of May 2021!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited May 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    TimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    We've had quite a bit of warm sun here in Scotland over the last week, as well as showers (though grey and wet most of today). What was that you were saying about shite Scottish weather and the superiority of the London climate?
    All too true. The southeast has been the worst for sun and warmth this year. Nagging north easterlies: UGH

    What's worse, the pattern seems set in stone. The promised warm-up STILL recedes

    It is just as bad across NW Europe

    Amsterdam:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2759794

    Sunshine for the last few days in Cumbria. My bit of it anyway. Though rain today.

    Incidentally I am sure you have noticed that my recent headers have been fully 25% shorter than before.Yes - a whole TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT! Yay!

    Do I get a personalised knint flaps or whatever it is you make from you as reward? I do hope so. 😉
    Don't think I've had a chance to ask since it happened. How did your daughter's pub's reopening go? Well, I hope.
    Yes - she is pleased with how it's gone so far. Fully booked for meals at the weekend and some of her regular drinkers are coming back in. She's put some new beers on, which have gone down well. What she wants is for a bit of normality - not a mad rush - like with the EOTHO scheme - but steady business so she can provide a really good service.

    Fingers crossed it continues.

    Thank you for asking.
    Perhaps you could suggest a few PB "specials"?

    > The Screaming Eagle - pizza with pineapple and locally-sourced (and/or poached) game bird in (or out) of season

    > Fruits de mer flambé a la Leon = regular seafood salad or whatever already on the menu, set alight table-side accompanied by dire warning-of-the-day

    > Smithson & Son's Cumbria Boil = finely-seasoned hind-quarters of well-aged badger (or visa versa according to taste) served with mushy peas.

    > PB Happy Hour = drinks on the house from 4-5pm every time a customer who is NOT a PBer says the magic words "Alternative Vote" OR "First Past the Post"!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    TimT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    We've had quite a bit of warm sun here in Scotland over the last week, as well as showers (though grey and wet most of today). What was that you were saying about shite Scottish weather and the superiority of the London climate?
    All too true. The southeast has been the worst for sun and warmth this year. Nagging north easterlies: UGH

    What's worse, the pattern seems set in stone. The promised warm-up STILL recedes

    It is just as bad across NW Europe

    Amsterdam:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2759794

    Sunshine for the last few days in Cumbria. My bit of it anyway. Though rain today.

    Incidentally I am sure you have noticed that my recent headers have been fully 25% shorter than before.Yes - a whole TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT! Yay!

    Do I get a personalised knint flaps or whatever it is you make from you as reward? I do hope so. 😉
    Don't think I've had a chance to ask since it happened. How did your daughter's pub's reopening go? Well, I hope.
    Yes - she is pleased with how it's gone so far. Fully booked for meals at the weekend and some of her regular drinkers are coming back in. She's put some new beers on, which have gone down well. What she wants is for a bit of normality - not a mad rush - like with the EOTHO scheme - but steady business so she can provide a really good service.

    Fingers crossed it continues.

    Thank you for asking.
    Perhaps you could suggest a few PB "specials"?

    > The Screaming Eagle - pizza with pineapple and locally-sourced (and/or poached) game bird in (or out) of season

    > Fruits de mer flambé a la Leon = regular seafood salad or whatever already on the menu, set alight table-side accompanied by dire warning-of-the-day

    > Smithson & Son's Cumbria Boil = finely-seasoned hind-quarters of well-aged badger (or visa versa according to taste) served with mushy peas.

    > PB Happy Hour = drinks on the house from 4-5pm every time a customer who is NOT a PBer says the magic words "Alternative Vote" OR "First Past the Post"!
    😁!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, I think BaFin was completely taken in by Wirecard. They bought into this narrative that shortsellers were conspiracy (and paying off) journalists to write lies.

    The reality, of course, is that Wirecard was a complete fraud.

    (And it is one of those strange ironies that Wirecard was one of those few stocks that Zero Hedge used to pump up, rather than dump down on. Now that's a relationship that should be probed.)

    Smaller scale (£90m???) but our regulators are easily duped too.

    Founder of Football Index telling punters to max out their credit cards to invest in his pyramid scheme:

    https://twitter.com/josephmdurso/status/1370015026829008909?lang=en-gb

    Shame on both the FCA and Gambling Commission.
    The gambling commission clearly had no idea what the product was. I remember somebody explaining it to me ages ago and it was obvious what the problem was.
    The question I'd have asked is - where do the "dividend" payments come from.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, I think BaFin was completely taken in by Wirecard. They bought into this narrative that shortsellers were conspiracy (and paying off) journalists to write lies.

    The reality, of course, is that Wirecard was a complete fraud.

    (And it is one of those strange ironies that Wirecard was one of those few stocks that Zero Hedge used to pump up, rather than dump down on. Now that's a relationship that should be probed.)

    Smaller scale (£90m???) but our regulators are easily duped too.

    Founder of Football Index telling punters to max out their credit cards to invest in his pyramid scheme:

    https://twitter.com/josephmdurso/status/1370015026829008909?lang=en-gb

    Shame on both the FCA and Gambling Commission.
    The gambling commission clearly had no idea what the product was. I remember somebody explaining it to me ages ago and it was obvious what the problem was.
    The question I'd have asked is - where do the "dividend" payments come from.
    We now know....new money....The thing is as a general concept it isn't totally crazy, its sort of a cross between FUT (Fifa Ultimate Team) where you buy packs of players and Daily Fantasy Sports,.

    If it was gambling product where you were basically playing daily fantasy sports, but you could only pick players from the "cards" you owned at that time, and that then there is a free market in buying / selling cards...I get that bit...and they made revenue from taking a percentage off the top of trades....

    But you can't then start giving out money every game from thin air, where everybody gets dividend payments back.no wonder initially all these people claimed you couldn't lose and they had made money.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Jonathan said:

    Not that long ago David Cameron was supposed to be as untouchable as Boris. Oh dear.

    Perhaps Boris will have a Referendum on the Slaughter of the First Born. Expecting it to fail easily, he won't bother to make much of a case against.

    Oh dear.

    "Perhaps".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Windrush victims still waiting for compensation

    Victims of the Windrush scandal continue to face long waits in receiving compensation, a report by the spending watchdog has found.

    The National Audit Office (NAO) said the Windrush Compensation Scheme is yet to meet its aim of paying claimants quickly.

    ...

    The scheme was launched by the Home Office in April 2019 to offer payments to people, mainly from the Caribbean, who came to the UK legally but did not have the documents to prove their right to remain.

    In 2018, it emerged that many had lost homes, jobs and access to welfare benefits and NHS services - while some were wrongly detained and even deported.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57196605
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Prizeout is now an option to withdraw winnings from Betfair and some other gambling sites.

    So far as I can see, Prizeout takes your winnings and sends you a gift card. It all looks a bit odd.
    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10212
    https://prizeout.com/
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Leon said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    <

    Very interesting. I wonder what Labour politician of yesteryear could lay a glove on Boris. I can't help thinking of Robin Cook - highly articulate and forensic, sardonic, not an appearance man.

    A good shout - let's not forget politics is theatre so you need someone who would be at home on a stage rather than a courtroom.

    Politics is also about self-confidence and self-belief and that's another asset Johnson brings to the table. Those opposing him have to have those attributes as well.
    It is a stage isn’t it? Boris jibe at Starmer & Rayner last week was very theatrical - I thought it was one of the best bits of parliament I’ve seen, and the best I’ve ever seen of Boris

    I think Jess Phillips would do best of the current Labour Party against him. She’s a better fake than Sir Keir could ever be
    It's no coincidence Johnson, Salmond and Kennedy, all of whom had done plenty of television work beyond politics, all prospered to an extent in the political theatre.

    You could argue all three are and were deeply flawed individuals but as entertainers, each was in their own way very successful.
    Yes, I’ve argued a long time, not because it’s my view but my observation of the way of the world, that to succeed in modern politics it is more important than ever to be a kind of celebrity, and Boris is probably the biggest celebrity UK politician of all time
    Yes, and it worked for Trump in the USA, and Berlesconi in Italy too. Until it didn't of course. I expect Johnson to keep power for a while yet, but future generations will look back wondering "What were they thinking?"

    No, they won't. eg The vaccine roll out is a global success, and it is down to Boris, choosing the right woman: Kate Bingham

    This has always been a major Boris strength, he knows how to delegate. He can spot talent. He did it as mayor

    This by itself makes him much more than Berlusconi, even as you want him to be an empty Berlusconi

    Another of his talents is getting his frantic enemies to under-estimate him. "Clown. "Buffoon". "Berlusconi". Well done for continuing the trend with such fidelity
    Boris has one other talent which people ignore, which is quite a simple but effective one: he can make people smile.

    Don't underestimate the power of smiles, and the power of optimism. So much of politics and news etc can be negative, especially but not just during a pandemic - but also in general too. The "climate emergency", conflicts in the Middle East, economic difficulties, we never talk about things going right.

    Boris's generally unbounded optimism, like Cameron and Blair's before it, can carry people along and help people believe there's better days ahead. It works for policies and not just feelings, while most countries and scientists were pessimistic that vaccines were coming, ours was optimistic that this could be done and did what was needed to get it done.

    Keir stands up every Wednesday and he's just grey and dreary. He tries to nitpick and find small problems in things to have a go with - and nobody cares. Why go along with his dreary crap, when you can go along with the optimism that things are going to get better. The bouncy way now he says "Jabs! Jabs! Jabs! to Jobs! Jobs! Jobs" ... that optimism carries people along and I don't see anyone optimistic in Labour.

    In one way in 2017 during the this was a strength Corbyn had too. Bouncing along to cheering fans at Prenton Park etc, he was optimistic and positive and it was refreshing - even if he was batshit crazy!
    But then Mrs T. was hardly a rib tickler and William Hague was great at telling jokes. What gives?
    I'm just saying it's part of Boris' charisma, a charisma he undeniably possesses.

    Charisma comes in various forms. Blair had a smooth affability: the winning smile, the self deprecation. He wasn't witty like Boris, but he had profound charm. Thatcher was charismatic in a very very different way: stern, superbly disciplined, formidable, highly intelligent. Not funny at all, but definitely impressive

    Those are the three seriously charismatic British prime ministers in my adult life time. Boris, Blair, Thatcher

    All the others, including Cameron, are in a different and lower league

    Coincidentally, or not, these three are the only ones to win really big majorities
    Personality goes a long way

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    If it wasn't for Iraq - and Gordon Brown - I do wonder how many terms Blair could have won. Four?

    DESPITE the utter catastrophe of Iraq Blair remained personally popular, for years afterwards, so.... without it?

    The Tories are "lucky" that he destroyed himself. He was a brilliant politician, and still is - but now absurdly silenced and exiled by his party
    The recession would have done for him. Recessions do for everybody.
    Yes, quite possibly

    Also, Brown kept Blair out of the euro, Blair would have taken us in otherwise. That would likely have been calamitous. So absenting Brown from the equation changes the political balance

    On the other hand, without Iraq Blair would have remained a hero in his party, Labour would have remained centrist = no Corbyn, probably no Brexit, and a very different history for Britain
    I dunno about that. He’d have needed a referendum on the euro. Even with his skill, I think he’d have lost it. I suspect the next day he’d shrug it off and say “ok we’ve heard you. Isn’t democracy wonderful folks”. And then he’d have sailed on.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    The Channel 4 documentary series on the Daniel Morgan case (see header) includes the News of the World exposé of David Mellor, then Minister of Fun in John Major's government.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Brilliant piece Cyclefree
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited May 2021
    On the previous topic, I'm wary of using odds as a method of proclaiming alleged 'value'.

    There is no law of averages here. Just because you bet 20 times on different markets all at 20-1 doesn't mean that one time in 20 you will win. Or even one time in 100.

    In fact, these 'value' bets are a great way to lose money. When we announce them, and I've done this myself, we usually caveat that 'this doesn't mean it will win, merely that it's value.' Er, well, no it isn't. It's only value if you win. Otherwise it doesn't matter how attractive the odds look you're still going to lose. The slight exception to this, although this still applies, is if you are spread betting when it's possible to outsmart other punters by spotting value that they don't.

    With fixed odd betting though, value only applies if you outsmart the market and that requires smarter knowledge than the bookies and the other punters.

    Does that apply here in Buckinghamshire?

    Doubt it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    On the previous topic, I'm wary of using odds as a method of proclaiming alleged 'value'.

    There is no law of averages here. Just because you bet 20 times on different markets all at 20-1 doesn't mean that one time in 20 you will win. Or even one time in 100.

    In fact, these 'value' bets are a great way to lose money. When we announce them, and I've done this myself, we usually caveat that 'this doesn't mean it will win, merely that it's value.' Er, well, no it isn't. It's only value if you win. Otherwise it doesn't matter how attractive the odds look you're still going to lose. The slight exception to this, although this still applies, is if you are spread betting when it's possible to outsmart other punters by spotting value that they don't.

    With fixed odd betting though, value only applies if you outsmart the market and that requires smarter knowledge than the bookies and the other punters.

    Does that apply here in Buckinghamshire?

    Doubt it.

    The smarter judgement might be the success of the LibDems in taking the council.

    The new Liberal Democrat Mayor of Amersham Town Council has been announced following the party winning control of the Council.

    The Liberal Democrats gained seats from the Conservatives during the recent local elections to become the largest party on the council. Across Chesham and Amersham, the Liberal Democrats increased their vote share as well as becoming the official opposition to the Conservatives on the new Buckinghamshire Unitary Council.

    https://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/politics/new-mayor-of-amersham-council-announced-after-conservatives-lose-control-3243671

    Sadly, 20/1 has long gone. 10/1 is the general price; 14/1 on Betfair.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    May I concur that this is an excellent thread header and not because its about the BBC
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Watch out! Having brought back British Rail, Boris will try to nationalise the BBC.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Exactly.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
    I laugh at the fact that you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to push an agenda of 'we are not alone', which is not what the evidence actually is.

    I laugh at the fact you share videos of people humouring TMZ, or joking with Ellen, and gobble it up as if it is a straight laced report on CSPAN because you want it to be true.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
    I laugh at the fact that you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to push an agenda of 'we are not alone', which is not what the evidence actually is.

    I laugh at the fact you share videos of people humouring TMZ, or joking with Ellen, and gobble it up as if it is a straight laced report on CSPAN because you want it to be true.
    What about the straight laced report on 60 Minutes only last week? Or the numerous straight laced reports and interviews run by the NY Times, CNN, Fox, NBC etc... not with Youtube cranks. But with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the ex Senate Majority Leader, former US government cabinet members?

    I now forward Ellen, James Corden and TMZ because you seem uninterested in the “respectable” press and I figured it was worth a shot engaging with you on a different level.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Good morning everyone.
    Thanks for the thoughts Ms Cyclefree.
    We need to be able to trust the BBC and for once I agree with Philip Thompson; the cover-up is more significant than the original offence. However, given what has so far come out about the Daniel Morgan affair, what on earth is Ms Patel doing, apparently seeking to review the report.

    On a personal note, off to a real u3a Group meeting this morning; that's two this week! "Fortunately' only small groups; 6 members.
    It's quite surprising how much Zoom alters peoples faces.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
    I laugh at the fact that you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to push an agenda of 'we are not alone', which is not what the evidence actually is.

    I laugh at the fact you share videos of people humouring TMZ, or joking with Ellen, and gobble it up as if it is a straight laced report on CSPAN because you want it to be true.
    What about the straight laced report on 60 Minutes only last week? Or the numerous straight laced reports and interviews run by the NY Times, CNN, Fox, NBC etc... not with Youtube cranks. But with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the ex Senate Majority Leader, former US government cabinet members?

    I now forward Ellen, James Corden and TMZ because you seem uninterested in the “respectable” press and I figured it was worth a shot engaging with you on a different level.
    By the way, I would rather be wrong about this. I have a nice cosy life. That risks getting upturned whether this is the US establishment losing their mind, a new global military imbalance or non human intelligence.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
    I laugh at the fact that you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to push an agenda of 'we are not alone', which is not what the evidence actually is.

    I laugh at the fact you share videos of people humouring TMZ, or joking with Ellen, and gobble it up as if it is a straight laced report on CSPAN because you want it to be true.
    What about the straight laced report on 60 Minutes only last week? Or the numerous straight laced reports and interviews run by the NY Times, CNN, Fox, NBC etc... not with Youtube cranks. But with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the ex Senate Majority Leader, former US government cabinet members?

    I now forward Ellen, James Corden and TMZ because you seem uninterested in the “respectable” press and I figured it was worth a shot engaging with you on a different level.
    I would respect certain senators more if they had taken a firmer, less partisan line with Trump and the events of 6 Jan.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    This year's May is on track to be the coldest since 1996. Will it also be in the final year of a long period of Tory hegemony...?
    There are ways and means of determining "coldest". CET, daily maxima, daily minimums, etc?

    I understand this might be the first Spring ever in London where the highest temperature is recorded in March. Or so I read.

    Whatever the data this *feels* like the worst May I can remember, but given that I was completely blitzed from the age of 18 until the mid 90s, and can therefore remember little, your claim of "1996" could be right
    You mean you can't remember from about 1939 onwards?!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Jonathan said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1395486670997180417?s=20

    Ellen (79m Twitter followers): “UFOs are real”
    > link to segment with CNN journo

    With the audience laughing the whole time, because its a joke. 😂

    You take this so seriously, its funny. You're going to be so disappointed when nothing happens. 😂
    The audience laugh out of nervousness.
    The audience laugh because its a joke.

    We're laughing at you, not with you.
    There are people in the audience that lack the mental flexibility to easily take on big new info. So they laugh. A bit like when Prince William made a coughing joke at a film premier last March. At that precise moment I was sitting on a 6 figure mark-to-market gain on a Dow put strip. Cant remember what you were saying then. Probably telling Sean to stop wetting the bed.

    It is instructive that you cannot see that a great many senior figures in the US are taking this very seriously indeed. So seriously that Congress has commissioned a formal report from the NID “to better understand the nature and origin of UAPs”. With the DoD inspector general in turn now also launching an internal investigation into the department’s handling of UAPs. No doubt because of the allegations that the chain of command was broken by a culture of ridicule, on what might be the greatest national security event in modern US history. Which it will be if anything other than DARPA tech.

    Whether they are earthly or otherwise, this is a major major story, given the formal acknowledgement by the US government that they have recorded more than data glitches. That you hurl insults at me for trying to give it proper attention says far more about you than me.
    I laugh at the fact that you completely misrepresent what people are saying, to push an agenda of 'we are not alone', which is not what the evidence actually is.

    I laugh at the fact you share videos of people humouring TMZ, or joking with Ellen, and gobble it up as if it is a straight laced report on CSPAN because you want it to be true.
    What about the straight laced report on 60 Minutes only last week? Or the numerous straight laced reports and interviews run by the NY Times, CNN, Fox, NBC etc... not with Youtube cranks. But with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the ex Senate Majority Leader, former US government cabinet members?

    I now forward Ellen, James Corden and TMZ because you seem uninterested in the “respectable” press and I figured it was worth a shot engaging with you on a different level.
    I would respect certain senators more if they had taken a firmer, less partisan line with Trump and the events of 6 Jan.
    Yes Harry Reid’s indulgence of Trump was beyond the pale.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-not-israel-is-to-blame-for-the-latest-bloodshed

    Excellent article from a Palestinian on the background to the recent violence.

    How Palestinians move on from Hamas is beyond me. The ceasefire last night is good news, but no doubt this violence will be instigated again in a couple of years time and in the meantime Hamas will concentrate on improving their weaponry and not helping their people.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, I think BaFin was completely taken in by Wirecard. They bought into this narrative that shortsellers were conspiracy (and paying off) journalists to write lies.

    The reality, of course, is that Wirecard was a complete fraud.

    (And it is one of those strange ironies that Wirecard was one of those few stocks that Zero Hedge used to pump up, rather than dump down on. Now that's a relationship that should be probed.)

    Smaller scale (£90m???) but our regulators are easily duped too.

    Founder of Football Index telling punters to max out their credit cards to invest in his pyramid scheme:

    https://twitter.com/josephmdurso/status/1370015026829008909?lang=en-gb

    Shame on both the FCA and Gambling Commission.
    The gambling commission clearly had no idea what the product was. I remember somebody explaining it to me ages ago and it was obvious what the problem was.
    The question I'd have asked is - where do the "dividend" payments come from.
    We now know....new money....The thing is as a general concept it isn't totally crazy, its sort of a cross between FUT (Fifa Ultimate Team) where you buy packs of players and Daily Fantasy Sports,.

    If it was gambling product where you were basically playing daily fantasy sports, but you could only pick players from the "cards" you owned at that time, and that then there is a free market in buying / selling cards...I get that bit...and they made revenue from taking a percentage off the top of trades....

    But you can't then start giving out money every game from thin air, where everybody gets dividend payments back.no wonder initially all these people claimed you couldn't lose and they had made money.
    98% of clients were making money (well actually being paid money from new investors but they didnt know that). To lose you had to be both very bad and very unlucky, either on their own wouldnt have been enough.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Morning all! Posting a bit less after lunch as I have got my son (20) and his bf staying with us for the first time in 5 months. However pointless the weather is this week it seems like NE Scotland is faring a lot less badly than large chunks of these islands. Can we have the Gulf Stream back please, or has it gone for good post EEAxit?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    This year's May is on track to be the coldest since 1996. Will it also be in the final year of a long period of Tory hegemony...?
    There are ways and means of determining "coldest". CET, daily maxima, daily minimums, etc?

    I understand this might be the first Spring ever in London where the highest temperature is recorded in March. Or so I read.

    Whatever the data this *feels* like the worst May I can remember, but given that I was completely blitzed from the age of 18 until the mid 90s, and can therefore remember little, your claim of "1996" could be right
    You mean you can't remember from about 1939 onwards?!
    I've got diaries from when I retired in 2003. I could look through them, but without doing that this May certainly feels as though it's been cold. The sound of lawnmowers has not been heard much!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    As far as the BBC is concerned, I wonder if our PM will have the temerity to lecture them on honesty.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
    Doesn’t the Queen have a collection of dungeons for this sort of thing?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    As far as the BBC is concerned, I wonder if our PM will have the temerity to lecture them on honesty.

    Why not? The public trust a man twice sacked for lying under multiple investigations for dishonesty, so why not. As was said upthread, the Cult of Boris truly is a phenomena, and he truly is a Cult.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Morning all! Posting a bit less after lunch as I have got my son (20) and his bf staying with us for the first time in 5 months. However pointless the weather is this week it seems like NE Scotland is faring a lot less badly than large chunks of these islands. Can we have the Gulf Stream back please, or has it gone for good post EEAxit?

    Bit south of you in Dundee but last night was just incredible with really strong winds and sheets of rain. Its still going on this morning but not quite as violent. It feels more like November than May. Really weird weather but I think that leaving the EEA is unlikely to be the cause!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
    Doesn’t the Queen have a collection of dungeons for this sort of thing?
    Maybe you could get him beamed up somewhere? You seem very well connected with our hidden overlords.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-not-israel-is-to-blame-for-the-latest-bloodshed

    Excellent article from a Palestinian on the background to the recent violence.

    How Palestinians move on from Hamas is beyond me. The ceasefire last night is good news, but no doubt this violence will be instigated again in a couple of years time and in the meantime Hamas will concentrate on improving their weaponry and not helping their people.

    Once it comes out that all those Palestinian kids were killed by Hamas rockets, Hamas are toast surely.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
    The issue is not that Savile was a wrong'un, the issue is how and why the BBC covered it up. Just as they covered this up.

    Is there any reason to think the same won't happen again today?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    As far as the BBC is concerned, I wonder if our PM will have the temerity to lecture them on honesty.

    Indeed in one of Johnsons sackings wasn't it for making up fake quotes to substantiate a story?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-not-israel-is-to-blame-for-the-latest-bloodshed

    Excellent article from a Palestinian on the background to the recent violence.

    How Palestinians move on from Hamas is beyond me. The ceasefire last night is good news, but no doubt this violence will be instigated again in a couple of years time and in the meantime Hamas will concentrate on improving their weaponry and not helping their people.

    Once it comes out that all those Palestinian kids were killed by Hamas rockets, Hamas are toast surely.
    Nah, nobody gives a fuck about that, which is kind of the point. You don't either, do you?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    As far as the BBC is concerned, I wonder if our PM will have the temerity to lecture them on honesty.

    Why not?

    There are two strands to @Cyclefree 's thread header. Historical corruption and cover-up at the BBC and a here-and-now bad smell emanating from the Home Office surrounding the spiking of a report looking into the murder of a private detective 35 years ago.

    One strand has been forensically studied on here and the other largely ignored. I suspect this is how it will play out in public too.

    So Johnson's currency rises if he calls out corruption and cover up at the BBC.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
    The issue is not that Savile was a wrong'un, the issue is how and why the BBC covered it up. Just as they covered this up.

    Is there any reason to think the same won't happen again today?
    I think the cover ups were much wider than that. Stoke Mandeville for Saville for example, before we even get started on the Catholic Church, the Church of England, Leicester City Council, the Houses of Parliament etc etc. Its almost as if sexual abuse of children wasn't considered much of a crime until recently.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
    Doesn’t the Queen have a collection of dungeons for this sort of thing?
    Maybe you could get him beamed up somewhere? You seem very well connected with our hidden overlords.
    No I’ve never met Brenda
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    As far as the BBC is concerned, I wonder if our PM will have the temerity to lecture them on honesty.

    Of course he will.
    If he can be bothered.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
    Doesn’t the Queen have a collection of dungeons for this sort of thing?
    Maybe you could get him beamed up somewhere? You seem very well connected with our hidden overlords.
    No I’ve never met Brenda
    My sister gave her a bouquet of flowers in about 1965.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...

    “Eustice himself has a long track record of wanting out of the EU, stretching back to his UKIP days. He even quit the May government in protest at her foot-dragging on the issue. Yet Eustice’s sin, like Michael Gove’s, is to be seen as too pragmatic a Brexiteer...” https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1395623042173358081
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
    The issue is not that Savile was a wrong'un, the issue is how and why the BBC covered it up. Just as they covered this up.

    Is there any reason to think the same won't happen again today?
    Did they cover up, or did they just utterly fail to investigate allegations (in either case) ?
    The consequences, of course, are equally malign, but they are not quite the same thing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2021

    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...
    Still, at least there’s that widely respected institution the BBC to provide the glue that sticks the Union together.

    Oh..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited May 2021

    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...
    Of course, on some people's logic on PB the Scots should be completely ignored because they don't vote for Tory MPs. But some do - and those are rural/coastal communities. The Tories are really lucky this Aussie stuff didn't come out before the Scottish Parliament elections. They're really going to be relying on the retiree vote in the future, though.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...
    Can you give me one good reason why trade with Aus/NZ screws Scottish farming, while trade with 27 nations across Europe is the greatest thing since sliced bread?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
    The issue is not that Savile was a wrong'un, the issue is how and why the BBC covered it up. Just as they covered this up.

    Is there any reason to think the same won't happen again today?
    Did they cover up, or did they just utterly fail to investigate allegations (in either case) ?
    The consequences, of course, are equally malign, but they are not quite the same thing.
    They covered it up, that was the point quoted by Mark.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-not-israel-is-to-blame-for-the-latest-bloodshed

    Excellent article from a Palestinian on the background to the recent violence.

    How Palestinians move on from Hamas is beyond me. The ceasefire last night is good news, but no doubt this violence will be instigated again in a couple of years time and in the meantime Hamas will concentrate on improving their weaponry and not helping their people.

    No, I think you are quite wrong on this, Hamas do a lot for their people, which is why the people support them.

    The Islamists across the MENA region stepped into the social gap that the corrupt secular dictators vacated. The Islamists learnt from Mao not Communism, but to embed themselves in the ignored people, to provide education (albeit to their own curriculum) health care, feeding the poor, even street level law enforcement. Everyone else has ignored these people over the years, including the PLO.

    I don't agree with Hamas, but they are seen as the protectors of their people, by those people. It is part of the intractable problem of Palestine.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Lovely evening on Wednesday in Edinburgh (not today or yesterday) so took a stroll to the Old Town. Fair few pubs and restaurants still to open and most of the rest looking empty, on a fine evening. Those places would have been heaving two years ago. I guess socialising is a learnt behaviour that we need to relearn.

    It must be soul destroying for your business to have survived a year long pandemic, only to come out the other side with empty tables.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited May 2021
    Tremendous header from @Cyclefree .
    Her point that "a free, inquiring press is necessary and valuable. It can uncover scandals and help remedy serious injustices" is well made.
    She might have added the work of the Mail and Sunday Times in uncovering the Bashir affair itself to the list of credits.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    The BBC cover-up of Bashir's wrongdoing is more significant than Bashir's wrongdoing.
    Given what we know now of the culture at the BBC from Bashir, it does make you look at the Dame Janet Smith Review into Savile in a fresh light.

    "Smith stated some BBC staff members were aware of complaints against Savile but did not pass the information to senior management due to the "culture of not complaining." She described an "atmosphere of fear" still existing at the BBC and said that some of those interviewed for the inquiry did so only after being assured their names would not be published, as they feared reprisal."

    Remember - she discovered "Savile had sexually abused 72 people and had raped eight people, including an eight-year-old. The review found misconduct had been committed at "virtually every one of the BBC premises at which he worked"."

    Seriously? What fresh light would that be? And who? The Great British Public knows Savile was a wrong'un.
    The issue is not that Savile was a wrong'un, the issue is how and why the BBC covered it up. Just as they covered this up.

    Is there any reason to think the same won't happen again today?
    Wasn't that what the Smith Review covered? Where is the fresh light? Surely if anything, it goes the other way, from Smith/Savile to Bashir, not vice versa?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    ‘Ok, I will touch him with a shitty stick.’

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1395632920170217477?s=21

    What really makes me laugh about the Australia negotiations was the revelation that Liar had "being seen to diverge from the EU" as his key negotiating objective, not in getting a deal that is good for the UK. Hence the Gove/Eustace "here is how trade works you pillock" axis which appears now to have been defeated by the "we had no idea Dover - Calais was a thing" axis.

    Scottish fishing and now Scottish farming screwed by Westminster who don't know and don't care. A powerful case for the union...
    Can you give me one good reason why trade with Aus/NZ screws Scottish farming, while trade with 27 nations across Europe is the greatest thing since sliced bread?
    No, but you can give us your expert opinion as to why the option being signed *doesn't* screw farming. Its you vs the trade experts, so I know you will wipe the floor with them.

    Tell you what, don't bother. I have stuff to do. Lets just award you the win and move on.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The trouble with the BBC is that it denials, and there have been many, will now not be believed by the General Public. In order to survive the BBC needs to be beyond reproach. I have lost confidence in the BBC and I think that the BBC are losing listeners and viewers for the same reasons that red wall seats are falling to the Tories. The BBC cares far too much about what its view of what the world should be rather than that of those who pay their wages..

    I don't care any more what the BBC says or does, put it behind a paywall and let people decide if they want to pay for it or let it accept advertising. Whichever it is, the status quo cannot and should not survive. The license fee has had its day.

    Stand by for another round of BBC bashing.... to think folk were complaining about too much Royal family coverage a few weeks back (DoE passing) and now its seen as too anti - Diana - Bashir possibly was at fault but to slate the organisation now is a bit late. I suspect 00s of messages will now swing back and forth about the broadcaster.
    It isn't too late.. If we have no trust in the BBC and they can feed us their truth rather than the real truth, we are all fecked. We don't want a "1984" situation where the BBC tells us it's truth. It absolutely essential that these misdoings are uncovered and the law changed to ensure stiff prison sentences for those who offend and even stiffer sentences for those who cover things up.
    Prison? Really? How do you think that would impact on the culture of fear at the BBC?

    This reflects very badly on the BBC and materially undermines any remaining justification for its continued existence but I really don't think that we are in locking up territory.
    So the only sanction is the sack?
    Yes, which will have ongoing effects. Bashir will surely never work again, for example, and he will face enormous social opprobrium. Accrued rights like pensions might be up for grabs too but for me prison is for serious criminal offences, not lying, hypocrisy and cover up of the same.
    Doesn’t the Queen have a collection of dungeons for this sort of thing?
    Maybe you could get him beamed up somewhere? You seem very well connected with our hidden overlords.
    No I’ve never met Brenda
    My sister gave her a bouquet of flowers in about 1965.
    Poor Elizabeth. I see “Haz” has given another interview to Oprah.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    Lovely evening on Wednesday in Edinburgh (not today or yesterday) so took a stroll to the Old Town. Fair few pubs and restaurants still to open and most of the rest looking empty, on a fine evening. Those places would have been heaving two years ago. I guess socialising is a learnt behaviour that we need to relearn.

    It must be soul destroying for your business to have survived a year long pandemic, only to come out the other side with empty tables.

    I should add that the full restaurants, and more restaurants than pubs, that were full are the ones that I would be happiest going to. This talks to the point CycleFree was making about her daughter's place. Loyal custom and good service are what you need in these circumstances.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    No, but you can give us your expert opinion as to why the option being signed *doesn't* screw farming. Its you vs the trade experts, so I know you will wipe the floor with them.

    Tell you what, don't bother. I have stuff to do. Lets just award you the win and move on.

    The fanbois cheering an Australia deal are the same ones who cheered this almighty fuckup...

    UK failed to secure the Brexit deal it wanted for Northern Ireland, David Frost admits
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-david-frost-b1850700.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    It's funny how so many of the people who for years were banging on about the "gravity" of trade and saying that trade with countries outside of Europe, despite being a majority of our trade, was inconsequential - are now terrified of the concept of free trade with countries 11,000 miles away.

    Why doesn't "gravity" mean a trade deal will be inconsequential? No instead it signs the death warrant on crofting and farming.

    Give me a break!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    FF43 said:

    Lovely evening on Wednesday in Edinburgh (not today or yesterday) so took a stroll to the Old Town. Fair few pubs and restaurants still to open and most of the rest looking empty, on a fine evening. Those places would have been heaving two years ago. I guess socialising is a learnt behaviour that we need to relearn.

    It must be soul destroying for your business to have survived a year long pandemic, only to come out the other side with empty tables.

    The Old Town is surely very much dependant on foreign and domestic tourists, as well as commuters and students. How are things in more residential districts?

    I noted that Chiswick was thronged when I visited Fox Jr2 for his birthday, while central London was dead.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The November storm outside my flat is so intense it is tearing down wooden fencing

    Except, it it not November, it is May 20

    I don't know why the weather is so SHITE, but I'm sure it must be YOUR fault!
    Sunil, please make it better. It is really fritzing my pitz. The worst May in history, and it happens to be THIS year?

    FFS

    I just want to walk out into warm sun. Once?
    This year's May is on track to be the coldest since 1996. Will it also be in the final year of a long period of Tory hegemony...?
    There are ways and means of determining "coldest". CET, daily maxima, daily minimums, etc?

    I understand this might be the first Spring ever in London where the highest temperature is recorded in March. Or so I read.

    Whatever the data this *feels* like the worst May I can remember, but given that I was completely blitzed from the age of 18 until the mid 90s, and can therefore remember little, your claim of "1996" could be right
    You mean you can't remember from about 1939 onwards?!
    I've got diaries from when I retired in 2003. I could look through them, but without doing that this May certainly feels as though it's been cold. The sound of lawnmowers has not been heard much!
    Up here, that's mostly because it hasn't stopped raining long enough for the grass to dry!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253

    Good morning everyone.
    Thanks for the thoughts Ms Cyclefree.
    We need to be able to trust the BBC and for once I agree with Philip Thompson; the cover-up is more significant than the original offence. However, given what has so far come out about the Daniel Morgan affair, what on earth is Ms Patel doing, apparently seeking to review the report.

    On a personal note, off to a real u3a Group meeting this morning; that's two this week! "Fortunately' only small groups; 6 members.
    It's quite surprising how much Zoom alters peoples faces.

    No, on the BBC I don't agree. The coverup is bad. But the original offence was to make up lies about people involved in the story - to invent a conspiracy against someone, carried out by specific named individuals. The journalist stepped into the story and started manipulating the people within it.
This discussion has been closed.