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The Jenny McGee departure from the NHS is a tricky one for BoJo – the man she nursed – politicalbett

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited May 2021 in General
imageThe Jenny McGee departure from the NHS is a tricky one for BoJo – the man she nursed – politicalbetting.com

The Jenny McGee story makes most of the front pages this morning and is likely to continue to get attention for a week or so until after the Channel 4 programe she features in goes out. This touches a few issues including BREXIT which has made the UK more difficult for trained foreign nurses and the need for the government to keep public sector pay under control.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Yowser!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Wowser!
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328
    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,116
    As I said last night - NZ nurse working in the UK opts to travel and then go home, like hundreds of thousands of other Kiwi and Aussies over the last 50 years. Its as routine for them as a gap year travelling is for middle class Brits.
    If people want to pay the NHS nurses more, they need to agree to how its funded, and vote for it at elections. Teresa May found out its not that easy when she tried it with social care.
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    Or, it will die a death inside a couple of days like every other bojo decapitation attempt.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    Daily Mirror posts headline critising Conservative government, whatever next?
  • Options

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I wouldn’t mind. I went to some fucking awesome gigs and the football match experience was much better than now.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    If only you could explain the situation to Ms McGee that would sort out her wrongheaded confusion over this matter.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    A period of inflation with wage inflation matching most of it solves a lot of other other issues (house prices, debt levels) if you can pull it off.

    Trouble is that it's very easy for it to run away from you which creates a whole different set of issues.

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I doubt it. Our current YoY comparison is comparing unlockdown with very hard lockdown.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354
    eek said:

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    A period of inflation with wage inflation matching most of it solves a lot of other other issues (house prices, debt levels) if you can pull it off.

    Trouble is that it's very easy for it to run away from you which creates a whole different set of issues.

    I guess the interesting "what if" is the one where the Barber Boom hadn't run into the Oil Crisis. Would massive expansion have worked, or would something else have caused it to end badly?

    Sunak Splurge, anyone?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    If only you could explain the situation to Ms McGee that would sort out her wrongheaded confusion over this matter.
    Its not surprising there is confusion......as
    there is on here. I understand it someone on here is editing comments to misrepresentwhat a poster has been saying.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328
    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Sandpit said:

    Daily Mirror posts headline critising Conservative government, whatever next?

    Thread header parroting Daily Mirror? 😉
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    If only you could explain the situation to Ms McGee that would sort out her wrongheaded confusion over this matter.
    Its not surprising there is confusion......as
    there is on here. I understand it someone on here is editing comments to misrepresentwhat a poster has been saying.
    Perhaps you could get someone to edit your comments to a level of approximately intelligible English.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Says the person who's nothing but bitter about the BBC, amongst other things.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    eek said:

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    A period of inflation with wage inflation matching most of it solves a lot of other other issues (house prices, debt levels) if you can pull it off.

    Trouble is that it's very easy for it to run away from you which creates a whole different set of issues.

    I guess the interesting "what if" is the one where the Barber Boom hadn't run into the Oil Crisis. Would massive expansion have worked, or would something else have caused it to end badly?

    Sunak Splurge, anyone?
    That is a good "what if?" question. Arguably, what whacked the world's economies in the 70s was the combination of rocketing oil prices together with a global economic system designed post-WW2 being dismantled shortly before.

    I still think in hindsight one of the greatest blunders made post-WW2 was the UK pulling out of the Persian Gulf in 1971. If we had been present in 1973, the Oil Embargo would have been far less effective - Qatar and UAE would have been under our control, and Kuwait would have been unlikely to go against us. It probably would have influenced the actions of Saudi and Kuwait as well.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    If only you could explain the situation to Ms McGee that would sort out her wrongheaded confusion over this matter.
    Its not surprising there is confusion......as
    there is on here. I understand it someone on here is editing comments to misrepresentwhat a poster has been saying.
    Perhaps you could get someone to edit your comments to a level of approximately intelligible English.
    Ask the moderator.

    I am happy with what I write. If you don't like it you can go somewhere else.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    In Scotland I think?
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,070

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I think we will see a temporary effect as accumulated savings meets an economy with reduced supply, but it should all shake out of the system relatively quickly.

    One interesting aspect of the 2010-15 period is that many people saw a decline in their living standards as a result of inflation, but either the Tories won a political argument for why it was necessary, Labour were not credible as an alternative party who might prevent it, or the Tories had insulated the bulk of their [retired] voters from the effects and so could win even as those of working age turned against them.

    Of those three, the most likely route to damnation for the Tories would be to end the triple-lock. Instead we've seen that they've already decided to freeze tax thresholds, so those in work will pay instead.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,152

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Cynical. But not "getting". I have been cynical for a very long while.

    I prefer substance over gestures. I dare say nurses do too.

    It is a lovely day here. I have stuff to do - not least enjoying the sun - so I will leave you to your piercing political apercus and chat about UFOs.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175
    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Indeed but, to play Devil's Advocate, there are a lot of people in the country who have faced wage cuts, unemployment and / or job uncertainty. Public sector workers have a lot of protection compared with private sector ones and, while wages often gets mentioned as where the public sector is less than the private, it ignores the effect of pensions where the opposite is true. While people say they want higher pay rises for nurses, I'm not sure the support is as fierce as is sometimes portrayed.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    edited May 2021

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I think we will see a temporary effect as accumulated savings meets an economy with reduced supply, but it should all shake out of the system relatively quickly.

    One interesting aspect of the 2010-15 period is that many people saw a decline in their living standards as a result of inflation, but either the Tories won a political argument for why it was necessary, Labour were not credible as an alternative party who might prevent it, or the Tories had insulated the bulk of their [retired] voters from the effects and so could win even as those of working age turned against them.

    Of those three, the most likely route to damnation for the Tories would be to end the triple-lock. Instead we've seen that they've already decided to freeze tax thresholds, so those in work will pay instead.
    The longer term effects of continuing to exploit the working population to support an ever growing number of pensioners protected from any economic disadvantage won’t be pretty
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Cynical. But not "getting". I have been cynical for a very long while.

    I prefer substance over gestures. I dare say nurses do too.

    It is a lovely day here. I have stuff to do - not least enjoying the sun - so I will leave you to your piercing political apercus and chat about UFOs.
    Well if the yank UFOs do visit us, they'll hit the West coast first. Do keep us in the loop.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    For such a massive killer story, it has already disappeared from any prominance on the likes of Mirror, Guardian and BBC websites.

    Some bloke who was on strictly and snogged somebody who wasn't his girlfriend claims it ruined his life is currently much more important for the Mirror.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354
    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    The curious thing is that believers in the free market ought to understand that; the principles of supply and demand apply to workers as well as goods. If the government sets the price of a nurse or a care worker or a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer too low, recruitment will be much harder. People, like goods, cost what they cost.

    That's trivially true for people like lawyers or analysts, who can easily take their skills into the private sector. But it even works for jobs where the public sector has a near-monopoly, like education or healthcare. People will just go and do other stuff instead.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I think we will see a temporary effect as accumulated savings meets an economy with reduced supply, but it should all shake out of the system relatively quickly.

    One interesting aspect of the 2010-15 period is that many people saw a decline in their living standards as a result of inflation, but either the Tories won a political argument for why it was necessary, Labour were not credible as an alternative party who might prevent it, or the Tories had insulated the bulk of their [retired] voters from the effects and so could win even as those of working age turned against them.

    Of those three, the most likely route to damnation for the Tories would be to end the triple-lock. Instead we've seen that they've already decided to freeze tax thresholds, so those in work will pay instead.
    The one thing that makes this "interesting" is that the traditional tool used to control inflation - interest rates - is politically and economically unusable because it would tip many mortgage owners in the US and UK into not being able to make their payments and therefore lose their homes. We are likely to see a situation where, even if inflation rises, interest rates remain very low.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328
    edited May 2021

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Says the person who's nothing but bitter about the BBC, amongst other things.
    Oh I am , I am, but Its fair comment that Ms Cyclefree has been very bitter in some of her comments of late, perhaps acerbic states it better.
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Cynical. But not "getting". I have been cynical for a very long while.

    I prefer substance over gestures. I dare say nurses do too.

    It is a lovely day here. I have stuff to do - not least enjoying the sun - so I will leave you to your piercing political apercus and chat about UFOs.
    Ufo',s not me.. there was a whole thread on it the other night
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,040
    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Channelling Kris Kristofferson, "Feeling good was good enough, good enough for me and Jenny McGee"
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Agree on all of that
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,040
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Cynical. But not "getting". I have been cynical for a very long while.

    I prefer substance over gestures. I dare say nurses do too.

    It is a lovely day here. I have stuff to do - not least enjoying the sun - so I will leave you to your piercing political apercus and chat about UFOs.
    Off topic

    Whatever you do, don't read about Priti Patel trying to spike the Daniel Morgan murder review. That will ruin your day.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,893
    'Keir & Loathing in the Labour Party: A Starmer documentary will only embarrass him more'

    https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1394904543666884610?s=21
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,040
    isam said:

    'Keir & Loathing in the Labour Party: A Starmer documentary will only embarrass him more'

    https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1394904543666884610?s=21

    I thought we were discussing Johnson and Jenny McGee.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    The curious thing is that believers in the free market ought to understand that; the principles of supply and demand apply to workers as well as goods. If the government sets the price of a nurse or a care worker or a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer too low, recruitment will be much harder. People, like goods, cost what they cost.

    That's trivially true for people like lawyers or analysts, who can easily take their skills into the private sector. But it even works for jobs where the public sector has a near-monopoly, like education or healthcare. People will just go and do other stuff instead.
    You're beginning to sounds like a capitalist, steady on.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Pete, as someone who recently raised virgin births in giant lizards, I feel it appropriate to point out conversations can often veer off-topic.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,848

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Trump is the same.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Public sector workers - and I am one - still tend to have an outdated view of what cost-of-living increases tend to look like - so 1% is views as 'insulting' or 'derisory'. There seems to be a view that in the private sector people are getting 3% and 4% as a matter of course. That sort of level went out the window 15-20 years ago - 1% is now a pretty good deal.
    This isn't a comment on the level nurses or anyone else deserves, just a comment on the slightly skewed view the public sector have of what people in the private sector get.
    It’s interesting that some of these things break through and others don’t. Gordon Brown’s 75p pension increase was news for weeks, as an example.

    Sometimes it might be better to do nothing, rather than a rise that’s considered derisory.

    A lot of it is also perception though, there’s little sympathy for public sector workers around - even for nurses during a pandemic. We can all see the mess of the public finances, and the need to get things back to normal after the pandemic.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,116

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Says the person who's nothing but bitter about the BBC, amongst other things.
    Oh I am , I am, but Its fair comment that Ms Cyclefree has been very bitter in some of her comments of late, perhaps acerbic states it better.
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    You are getting very bitter.
    Cynical. But not "getting". I have been cynical for a very long while.

    I prefer substance over gestures. I dare say nurses do too.

    It is a lovely day here. I have stuff to do - not least enjoying the sun - so I will leave you to your piercing political apercus and chat about UFOs.
    Ufo',s not me.. there was a whole thread on it the other night
    @moonshine and@leon will be happy. After Newsnight last night, its coming up on Radio 5 this morning too...

    Clearly the great big reveal is coming. Or not.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    edited May 2021
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Public sector workers - and I am one - still tend to have an outdated view of what cost-of-living increases tend to look like - so 1% is views as 'insulting' or 'derisory'. There seems to be a view that in the private sector people are getting 3% and 4% as a matter of course. That sort of level went out the window 15-20 years ago - 1% is now a pretty good deal.
    This isn't a comment on the level nurses or anyone else deserves, just a comment on the slightly skewed view the public sector have of what people in the private sector get.
    One thing that is common in the public sector is automatic progression (also in universities, where I work). So, eahc year you get not only the pay rise for your job, but you automatically (at least wthin bands) move up a point and get a pay rise that way. So our pay settlements are often 1% or so, but I get a pay rise each year of more like 3% overall. Now, it's still a problem if I, in five years, earn less in real terms than someone five points above me does today, but it does mean that most of us get real terms increases every year (the one thing that might break that is the USS contributions fiasco, but we'll see).

    In competitive, professional private sector, there's often similar, although less define progression - my wife's annual pay increases in the same role often outstripped min. But in other roles, supermarkets etc, you're in hte role you're in and all you get is the national pay increase. If it's 1% pay rise it's really 1% pay rise.
    Even in the professional private sector, opportunities for career progression within your company is limited — often based on luck (right place, right time). Pretty much all my engineer friends from career 1.0 have only had "promotions" by leaving their jobs to work for someone else. Therefore their pay is just their pay, give or take a few percent here and there.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,328

    Mr. Pete, as someone who recently raised virgin births in giant lizards, I feel it appropriate to point out conversations can often veer off-topic.

    The problems come when.people edit your comments to misprepresent what you said. Despicable though that is it doesn't affect me as my comments are largely unintelligible or rants about the BBC.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175
    rkrkrk said:

    Hasn't the NHS S just had 4% pay rise...

    In Scotland I think?
    Yes. 4% in Scotland. Only 1% in England. Which as 1.5% is the rate of inflation means that Boris rewarded the nurses who saved his life with a real terms pay cut.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Trump is the same.
    Trump would have promised her a bigly pay rise and then cut their pay. No suggestion in this case Boris acted badly in any way. She was invited to #10, she met the PM for tea and they asked if she would do a big photo op, she said no and that was basically it.

    Boris name checking of the staff that help save his life wlat the time came across as decent and respectful.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
    The 1% real terms pay cut WAS an offensive slap in the face. That Boris rampers think it is a Good Thing shows how bought into the personality cult they are.

    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,976
    edited May 2021

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    'Kinsmen' is a curiously antiquated (and quite inaccurate) word even for Paul Whicker the Tall Vicar.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175
    isam said:

    'Keir & Loathing in the Labour Party: A Starmer documentary will only embarrass him more'

    https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1394904543666884610?s=21

    Are they getting Ken Loach in to direct?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
    The 1% real terms pay cut WAS an offensive slap in the face. That Boris rampers think it is a Good Thing shows how bought into the personality cult they are.

    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.
    Shy bairns get nowt :D
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    Cracking joke at the end of this piece.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215

    Mr. Pete, as someone who recently raised virgin births in giant lizards, I feel it appropriate to point out conversations can often veer off-topic.

    Will there be a safety car or not; make up your mind!

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
    The 1% real terms pay cut WAS an offensive slap in the face. That Boris rampers think it is a Good Thing shows how bought into the personality cult they are.

    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.
    Well yes, the unions helped the government position out no end.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    Well, I was in my teens and University during the 70s. Any government that can fix that for me has my vote for what could be a very long life.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021
    FPT

    ping said:

    One thing worth remembering in year-on-year figures is we're at the weird point where we have both the start and the end of the pandemic messing with the figures.

    March21 vs March20 was comparing us in lockdown this year with rising concerns then only a week of lockdown in 2020.
    April21 vs April20 is comparing an easing of lockdown this year versus the depths of lockdown last year.

    So a 0.8% increase in inflation is surprisingly puny compared to what it could have been. Fuel has risen to January 2020 levels, not something we'd normally consider to be inflation 16 months after January 2020. Its artificial fake inflation.

    I think we’ll only be able to say that in retrospect. The economy is certainly in a weird place right now - US used car prices are up 10% and anecdotally, it’s a similar story here;

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1931753

    It could all be transitory, or it could be very real and long term. The markets are starting to price in long-term inflation.
    There may be some long-term inflation coming and some of that may be a good thing, the lack of any inflation has been a bad thing. Moderate inflation is good, not deflation or stagflation.

    But fuel prices returning to the levels they were at 16 months ago is in no real sense of the word what we would normally call inflation. It is a reversion of the temporary deflation.
    You told me some weeks ago that increase in M3 is not inflationary and modern economic theory had debunked my economic model from the 1970s/80s.

    Now you are telling me wage/price spirals are good for the economy. You will be telling me next interest rate rises will kick-start a never ending economic boom.

    I am liking modern economic theory, it would seem there are no downsides.
    That is not what I said, please do not misunderstand or misrepresent what I write.

    On the first M3 is inflationary, but M3 does not automatically mean there must be inflation because we know much more now about deflationary pressures on the economy too than we did in the 70s and 80s. So the M3 inflationary impact can be cancelling out deflationary pressures.

    The best case study of this is Japan, which has been combatting deflation now for decades. Have a look at the M3 data versus the inflation data for Japan - does this suit your theories from the 70s and 80s?

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FPCPITOTLZGJPN
    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MYAGM3JPM189N
    M3 has increased continuously for the past decade in Japan but there's been deflation to negligible inflation in the same decade. This has been an issue that Japan has been fighting since the 90s, which won't appear in your theories from the 70s and 80s.

    As for me saing wage/price spirals are good for the economy, no I never said that. What I said is that moderate inflation is good, because it allows prices which are sticky downwards to adjust in real terms without eg negative equity etc or ending in a deflationary spiral which has wracked Japan more thirty years now.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I am surprised Sir Marcus of Rashford PR team haven't been pushing the NHS pay rise angle.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,848
    Blimey. UK house price inflation up to the highest level since 2007 - just before the financial crisis and Britain's last housing slump https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/march2021 https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1394938730377515009/photo/1
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    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
    The 1% real terms pay cut WAS an offensive slap in the face. That Boris rampers think it is a Good Thing shows how bought into the personality cult they are.

    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.
    Well yes, the unions helped the government position out no end.
    When those in the private sector have had very small, if any, pay rises for a couple of decades and their jobs have become ever more insecure, a public sector union demanding 12% is not good optics at all. If they had asked for maybe 5% they may have had some public support.

  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Scott_xP said:

    Blimey. UK house price inflation up to the highest level since 2007 - just before the financial crisis and Britain's last housing slump https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/march2021 https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1394938730377515009/photo/1

    My ex-girlfriend will be pleased. We're just about to have the house valued to buy her out. :)
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,976



    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.

    It's the 'transitional demand' as advocated by Trotsky in The Death Agony of Capitalism and the Tasks of the Fourth International.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,697
    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    Because Bill Gates is in cahoots with Prince Harry to shield the truth from the British
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    The more immediate question is whether news of this sort triggers the markets into some sort of correction. A lot of people are in the markets for want of any other income earning choices, but poised to pull out if they catch a sniff of a crash coming. But we can’t all be first out.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Public sector workers - and I am one - still tend to have an outdated view of what cost-of-living increases tend to look like - so 1% is views as 'insulting' or 'derisory'. There seems to be a view that in the private sector people are getting 3% and 4% as a matter of course. That sort of level went out the window 15-20 years ago - 1% is now a pretty good deal.
    This isn't a comment on the level nurses or anyone else deserves, just a comment on the slightly skewed view the public sector have of what people in the private sector get.
    In some parts I would agree, but public sector wages don't rise above the 1% in times of economy boost like certain industries are undergoing at the moment, e.g. the building industry now and the projected increase in hospitality wages. There are also a lot more opportunities for overtime and bonus payments which teachers and council workers don't get.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. B2, I suspect there will be. There's a 100% record this year so far.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Mr. B2, I suspect there will be. There's a 100% record this year so far.

    The Aston Martin Safety Car does look sweet though
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    MrEd said:

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Agree on all of that
    +1
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    F1: Norris signs new contract with McLaren:
    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1394925887469113344

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838

    Mr. B2, I suspect there will be. There's a 100% record this year so far.

    I’m still going to bet against it!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    This is another one of those stories that the left thinks hurts the Tories but actually it helps them.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    HYUFD said:

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
    Do UK farmers want tariff-free access to the Australian market?

    Genuine question.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Should the government cut funding to businesses that have been impacted, like VAT cuts, furlough, grants, loans, rates relief and much more - put VAT on hospitality back up and give that money to the NHS? 🤔
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Sandpit, I hope your bet comes off... even though it'll guarantee the race being tedious.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,976

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    It's just the drunken bollocks du jour from LeadricT. He'll be on to something else soon enough. His Islam-as-an-existential-threat-to-everything material is overdue for another airing.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,848

    Do UK farmers want tariff-free access to the Australian market?

    Genuine question.

    No

    Someone posted last night the reason Australian imports were banned by the EU is they don't meet animal welfare standards.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    HYUFD said:

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
    A lot of good that's going to do, most of the food we would export would be stinking by the time it reaches Australia by boat
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,334

    Inflation could be this Government's black swan.

    No-one wants to go back to the 70s.

    I think we will see a temporary effect as accumulated savings meets an economy with reduced supply, but it should all shake out of the system relatively quickly....
    I'm inclined to agree, but that's by no means a certainty.
    What happens ofter the inevitable short term inflation spike will be very interesting to watch.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
    Do UK farmers want tariff-free access to the Australian market?

    Genuine question.
    It is a G20 economy with plenty of demand for cheaper British chicken, pork, lamb, milk, cheese etc.

    Otherwise we just pull up the drawbridge, go full protectionist and slam higher tariffs on all imports but with higher tariffs imposed on our exports in return
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,044
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Public sector workers - and I am one - still tend to have an outdated view of what cost-of-living increases tend to look like - so 1% is views as 'insulting' or 'derisory'. There seems to be a view that in the private sector people are getting 3% and 4% as a matter of course. That sort of level went out the window 15-20 years ago - 1% is now a pretty good deal.
    This isn't a comment on the level nurses or anyone else deserves, just a comment on the slightly skewed view the public sector have of what people in the private sector get.
    One thing that is common in the public sector is automatic progression (also in universities, where I work). So, eahc year you get not only the pay rise for your job, but you automatically (at least wthin bands) move up a point and get a pay rise that way. So our pay settlements are often 1% or so, but I get a pay rise each year of more like 3% overall. Now, it's still a problem if I, in five years, earn less in real terms than someone five points above me does today, but it does mean that most of us get real terms increases every year (the one thing that might break that is the USS contributions fiasco, but we'll see).

    In competitive, professional private sector, there's often similar, although less define progression - my wife's annual pay increases in the same role often outstripped min. But in other roles, supermarkets etc, you're in hte role you're in and all you get is the national pay increase. If it's 1% pay rise it's really 1% pay rise.
    I can only comment on my own department and say we get no automatic rise within the pay band. I don't know about people on older contracts.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838

    Mr. Sandpit, I hope your bet comes off... even though it'll guarantee the race being tedious.

    Think of it as a hedge against a really boring race.

    Annoyingly, this will be the first race in about three years that I won’t be watching live. Damn work getting in the way, I’ll start watching around the time it finishes - with anything internet-connected firmly switched off!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
    A lot of good that's going to do, most of the food we would export would be stinking by the time it reaches Australia by boat
    That would also apply to Australian exports to the UK, clearly you have not heard of refrigeration and planes
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379

    Cyclefree said:

    It's almost as if clapping is not enough.

    Who could ever have guessed such a thing?

    Should the government cut funding to businesses that have been impacted, like VAT cuts, furlough, grants, loans, rates relief and much more - put VAT on hospitality back up and give that money to the NHS? 🤔
    yes
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    isamisam Posts: 40,893

    isam said:

    'Keir & Loathing in the Labour Party: A Starmer documentary will only embarrass him more'

    https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1394904543666884610?s=21

    I thought we were discussing Johnson and Jenny McGee.
    Haha
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    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,697

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    Because Bill Gates is in cahoots with Prince Harry to shield the truth from the British
    I've got my second vaccine next week. Should I cancel? Or is it too late and I've already got the 5G chip in the first jab?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175
    Dura_Ace said:

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    It's just the drunken bollocks du jour from LeadricT. He'll be on to something else soon enough. His Islam-as-an-existential-threat-to-everything material is overdue for another airing.
    Far more interesting than alleged aliens is the fact that LeadricT is not only a regenerating alien, but he is is also Yvette Cooper as rcs let slip...
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,359
    Scott_xP said:

    Do UK farmers want tariff-free access to the Australian market?

    Genuine question.

    No

    Someone posted last night the reason Australian imports were banned by the EU is they don't meet animal welfare standards.
    On the face of it - and I don't wish to be rude - but it seems unlikely that Australian and New Zealand animals will e kept in worse conditions than European ones. I don't know for sure, but it seems a little counter-intuitive.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    Because Bill Gates is in cahoots with Prince Harry to shield the truth from the British
    I've got my second vaccine next week. Should I cancel? Or is it too late and I've already got the 5G chip in the first jab?
    You wouldn’t want to be stuck on 3G, surely?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,175

    As somebody who is always on the lookout for attack lines that will destroy Boris and the government, even I think the Jenny McGee story is a complete non-story.

    There is no way that it could destroy the government. But it should resonate. Think about it. People were clapping on their doorstep every Thursday for the Nurses. Heroes! Every one of them! And now when it comes to them getting a pay rise that even keeps pace with inflation? The same people who were clapping their heroism think they should do one.

    The Cult of Boris remains strong.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021

    Sad as it is, I can't see how this story damages the PM. If the revelation was that she was quitting because he'd been shagging her then even then I doubt it would do him much damage.

    People know he lies, betrays, cocks up and cocks about. They don't care. If he was ANY other politician they would care. But Brand Boris is the political sensation of this century so far - an entirely fictional concoction that seems to mesmerise by the million.

    Also the media and opposition had a good go at 1%, only 1% pay rise, in fact it was a major pillar of Labour's local election campaign. And the public seem to have shrugged.

    Her other criticisms seem to be they wanted her to big.a big photo op and she didn't want to, and that was that, and that COVID was really bad in part due to poor government messgaing...the first, its not exactly rare occurrence and she is entitled to say no and the second, well she isn't the first to point that out

    If the government were smart i think some extra one off holiday would be a middle ground of rewarding NHS staff without the inflationary pay increase...but they will probably be spun as offensive slap in the face or something.
    The 1% real terms pay cut WAS an offensive slap in the face. That Boris rampers think it is a Good Thing shows how bought into the personality cult they are.

    The Unions though, what a bunch of tossers. Scotland offer 4% - in line with a good pay award in the private sector. England offers 1% - derisory. So what does UNISON ask for? 12%. Wankers.
    "in line with a good pay award in the private sector" - many in the private sector have seen a 20% pay cut, or pay freezes. 1% (plus possible progression) would be a great award for many in the private sector.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354

    HYUFD said:

    Giving ‘our kinsmen’ a hand shandy, fucking UK farmers, it’s all go.

    https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1394932614541217800?s=21

    Not true, UK farmers would get tariff free access to the Australian market too, that is the whole point of trade deals
    Do UK farmers want tariff-free access to the Australian market?

    Genuine question.
    I dunno, but the UK has nearly three times the population of Australia. So all else being equal (and I know it isn't) access to the UK market is worth more than access to the Australian one. We shall have to see how that plays out.

    (In a few years time, the trade deals with Aus will be an interesting test of the relative benefits of small'n'nimble against massive'n'slow. Will the UK or the EU end up with more advantageous terms? Could go either way.)
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,848
    Cookie said:

    On the face of it - and I don't wish to be rude - but it seems unlikely that Australian and New Zealand animals will e kept in worse conditions than European ones. I don't know for sure, but it seems a little counter-intuitive.

    I think it's hormone injections, rather than living conditions
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916

    I posted this last night, but at midnight no one really replied. Trying again this morning:

    "Question for the PB Brains Trusts this late night morning.

    Every week I keep seeing the discussion drift off into aliens. By some reasonably respected posters too.

    Why can I only find this stuff here? Is there any news items anywhere else? I haven't looked hard but I just can't obviously see what is going on."

    Because Bill Gates is in cahoots with Prince Harry to shield the truth from the British
    I've got my second vaccine next week. Should I cancel? Or is it too late and I've already got the 5G chip in the first jab?
    Deffo too late. You'll just have to cope with being fully protected.
This discussion has been closed.