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Scotland’s election – how the pollsters did – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 10 in General
imageScotland’s election – how the pollsters did – politicalbetting.com

One of the great things about completing elections is that we can examine the final result against what the pollsters were recording. Above is the Wikipedia table of the final polls for the constituency section.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,844
    test
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,442
    Panelbase pretty strong showing
  • RobDRobD Posts: 54,871

    Panelbase pretty strong showing

    Most are within MoE.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 1,442
    RobD said:

    Panelbase pretty strong showing

    Most are within MoE.
    Apart from good ole ComRes
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 95,999
    Weren't Panelbase a load of rubbish on the list though?

    They consistently overestimated Alba, when we Scotch experts rightly said Alba were going to struggle.

    Yeah, they persistently had Alba to poll 6%
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    edited May 10
    Curse of new thread.

    Regarding Burnham. No borough voting information as previously. However, there is turnout data.
    Largest in Trafford, Stockport and Bury. (5 out of 7 Tory MP's).
    Lowest in Salford, Manchester and Wigan. (9 out of 10 Labour MP's).
    Conclusion. He wins votes from folk who don't usually vote for his Party.
    Another mayor used to do the same.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398
    On Police and Crime Commissioners I see that the Tories have basically cleaned up.

    I think Labour only won five in England, Durham, Merseyside, West Midlands (odd), Northumbria and South Yorkshire.

    Every other one is Tory, including a massive majority for Donna Jones in Hampshire - who got north of 68% on transfers - rendering my spoilt ballot laughable.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398
    FPT - I was amused to see the Palace of Westminster, which has been there since the 11th century, and was rebuilt in the Gothic Revival style in the 19th Century described as a colonial monstrosity.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,214

    On Police and Crime Commissioners I see that the Tories have basically cleaned up.

    I think Labour only won five in England, Durham, Merseyside, West Midlands (odd), Northumbria and South Yorkshire.

    Every other one is Tory, including a massive majority for Donna Jones in Hampshire - who got north of 68% on transfers - rendering my spoilt ballot laughable.

    The West Midlands is essentially Greater Birmingham so should be prime Labour territory. I think Street’s personal vote and universal appeal really shows.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,214
    dixiedean said:

    Curse of new thread.

    Regarding Burnham. No borough voting information as previously. However, there is turnout data.
    Largest in Trafford, Stockport and Bury. (5 out of 7 Tory MP's).
    Lowest in Salford, Manchester and Wigan. (9 out of 10 Labour MP's).
    Conclusion. He wins votes from folk who don't usually vote for his Party.
    Another mayor used to do the same.

    Him with Ed Balls as shadow chancellor…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,398

    On Police and Crime Commissioners I see that the Tories have basically cleaned up.

    I think Labour only won five in England, Durham, Merseyside, West Midlands (odd), Northumbria and South Yorkshire.

    Every other one is Tory, including a massive majority for Donna Jones in Hampshire - who got north of 68% on transfers - rendering my spoilt ballot laughable.

    The West Midlands is essentially Greater Birmingham so should be prime Labour territory. I think Street’s personal vote and universal appeal really shows.
    Ah, of course.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980
    The dinosaurs are at it, lovely stuff.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1391868399706386433?s=21
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    For sage counsel on resolving the division within the Labour Party, refer to my brilliant post at end previous thread.

    Idea is to get someone from one side who is reasonably acceptable to the other. Ideally from the side that is more committed to its position.

    For Labour, think the key divide is Leave versus Remain, not Left versus Right.

    One difference between Ireland pre-WWI and Canada post-WW1, is the absence of lost leader brought down because he was on the wrong side of the divide. In Parnell's case he created the divide; in Laurier's case it was conscription. Either way, they were both dead & out of the frame - directly - when the split was resolved.

    In Labour's case, there is no great martyr. Just a boatload of recrimination and a crew of lesser lights.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 87,889
    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 39,164
    edited May 10
    I take it that these numbers are for the constituency vote? The list note numbers were obviously materially different and that shaped the final result far more. Polling companies do seem to find the list votes more difficult to project. I am not entirely sure why.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,047
    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Bonkers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 67,843
    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    That's never going to happen, it's just a tactic to try to worry the SNP.

    And in any case do we want to open that door given its one of the reasons used as to why Scotland should separate from the UK, in that some remainer areas should have been allowed to stay in the EU?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    Seattle Times ($) - U.S. regulators have expanded use of Pfizer’s shot to those as young as 12, sparking a race to protect middle and high school students before they head back to class in the fall. Shots could begin as soon as a federal vaccine advisory committee issues recommendations for using the two-dose vaccine in 12- to 15-year-olds, expected Wednesday.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 6,838
    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    I think that idea was described as 'positively evil' when someone (possibly even your good self) once mooted it on here.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 60,264
    FPT

    Sometimes when a political party is split on some very contentious issue, the best way to unite & move forward, is by picking someone from the short end of the stick BUT who is also reasonably acceptable to the other side.

    Two examples:

    > Irish Parliamentary Party, predominant in Ireland, was deeply split in 1890 (to put it mildly) after it's leader, Charles Steward Parnell, was found (via divorce case) to be having an affair with the wife of one of his MPs. In the subsequent donnybrook the Parnellites were a minority compared to the anti-Parnellites backed by the Catholic Church Ten years later, the Party reunited (mostly) behind John Redmond, who had stuck by Parnell.

    > During WW1 the Liberal Party of Canada was split over the issue of conscription. Which was supported strongly in English Canada but NOT in Quebec. Pro-conscription Anglo Liberals joined a coalition under the Conservatives, deserting their former leader Sir Wilfrid Laurier. After the war, the Liberals reunited, under one of the few Anglo Libs who stood by Laurier, namely William Lyon Mackenzie King. Who led the Party and dominated Canadian politics right through WW2.

    In both cases, the minority starting out was more committed, over time, than the majority faction. And many in the original majority had second thoughts about the whole thing. Thus were willing and able to unite under a new leader who did NOT reflect where they'd started from, but who was acceptable from where they ended up.

    EDIT - The British Liberal Party had somewhat similar split, however efforts to resolve it proved fruitless, in large measure because BOTH leaders of the two factions, Herbert Asquith and David Lloyd George, were still on the scene. PLUS the rise of Labour, which the Liberal split facilitated.

    Such triangulation may sometimes be possible but it can sometimes be the worst idea of all.

    As an example of where that has gone wrong I see your Parnell and Laurier and raise you one Theresa May MP. Elected leader as a Remainer who was deemed acceptable to the Leavers, her Premiership was an unmitigated disaster with absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever.

    Instead when she was replaced with a Leaver in Boris who vanquished his opponents and then chucked the defeated rabble still opposed to the policy out of the party, the party went on to achieve what May had failed to do and on to a landslide majority.

    Sometimes to succeed you need to unite. But sometimes the only way to do so is to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 141
    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980
    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 87,889
    edited May 10
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    That's never going to happen, it's just a tactic to try to worry the SNP.

    And in any case do we want to open that door given its one of the reasons used as to why Scotland should separate from the UK, in that some remainer areas should have been allowed to stay in the EU?
    That is the main reason the SNP argues there should be indyref2 so Scotland can vote for independence from the UK to stay in the EU having voted Remain, on the same logic no reason Unionist voting areas like the Scottish Borders could not vote to leave an independent Scotland to stay in the UK
  • LeonLeon Posts: 10,353
    edited May 10
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    That's never going to happen, it's just a tactic to try to worry the SNP.

    And in any case do we want to open that door given its one of the reasons used as to why Scotland should separate from the UK, in that some remainer areas should have been allowed to stay in the EU?
    it's entirely plausible, especially the Borders. They are fiercely pro-Union. They might fancy staying with England rather than taking a massive gamble with a currency-less Scotland run by Nationalist nutters who want to repudiate the debt... and David Hume (colonialist bastard!)

    I can see the Orks and Shet wanting to go indy-indy. Become vegan tax havens like Man or the Channel Isles but greener

    Basically, the SNP is Glasgow and Dundee and odd bits of the Hebrides
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 10,353

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
    lol. And what exactly is the difference between what you avow, splitting up the UK, and this, splitting up Scotland?

    These areas were kingdoms in their own right, like Scotland. Strathclyde, the Orkneys, Deira, Bernicia, Fife....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 87,889
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
    lol. And what exactly is the difference between what you avow, splitting up the UK, and this, splitting up Scotland?

    These areas were kingdoms in their own right, like Scotland. Strathclyde, the Orkneys, Deira, Bernicia, Fife....
    Hang on. I live in Bernicia. Don't get us involved!
    Deira is entirely in England now while I'm being a PB pedant.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    Yes. A veritable oasis of tranquillity and goodwill.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,021
    "Exeter City Council
    @ExeterCouncil

    PCC Election Result - HERNANDEZ, ALISON SELINA (The Conservative Party Candidate) is duly elected as Police and Crime Commissioner for the Devon & Cornwall Police area.

    https://bit.ly/3f9sxzB"

    https://twitter.com/ExeterCouncil/status/1391872615082516483
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 60,264
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    If civil war was avoided then what was all the bombings about?

    My hometown was bombed when I was a kid, seven decades after partition. There was frequent fighting throughout all that period, off and on again. That was a civil war.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 30,308
    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,006

    FPT - I was amused to see the Palace of Westminster, which has been there since the 11th century, and was rebuilt in the Gothic Revival style in the 19th Century described as a colonial monstrosity.

    I loathe the Gothic Revival style.

    I'm a Neoclassical kinda guy.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 37,868
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
    lol. And what exactly is the difference between what you avow, splitting up the UK, and this, splitting up Scotland?

    These areas were kingdoms in their own right, like Scotland. Strathclyde, the Orkneys, Deira, Bernicia, Fife....
    Deira was entirely in ENGLAND, Leon :lol:

    EDIT: @dixiedean beat me to it!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
    lol. And what exactly is the difference between what you avow, splitting up the UK, and this, splitting up Scotland?

    These areas were kingdoms in their own right, like Scotland. Strathclyde, the Orkneys, Deira, Bernicia, Fife....
    Deira was entirely in ENGLAND, Leon :lol:
    Oh Deir(a).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 87,889
    edited May 10

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    If civil war was avoided then what was all the bombings about?

    My hometown was bombed when I was a kid, seven decades after partition. There was frequent fighting throughout all that period, off and on again. That was a civil war.
    There was some terrorism from the IRA and some from loyalist paramiliitaries in response, there was not a full scale civil war between loyalist Protestants who had built up arms and were ready to form their own army and Catholic Nationalists and the Irish government as there would have been without partitition
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Entertaining that all the Yoons who bleat endlessly about nasty Nat secessionists splitting up their country also love fantasising about splitting up a country.
    lol. And what exactly is the difference between what you avow, splitting up the UK, and this, splitting up Scotland?

    These areas were kingdoms in their own right, like Scotland. Strathclyde, the Orkneys, Deira, Bernicia, Fife....
    ‘The’ Orkneys, rooky Scotch expert error.

    The expat English Saganistas will rise up and brandishing their zimmer frames & empty bottles of English sparkling wine, run the dreadful Natz out of their douce wee towns.
    Or possibly not if Antiques Road Trip is on the telly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,571
    Good news for Israel, FDA has approved Pfizer for 12 - 15 yr olds
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,201
    Andy_JS said:

    "Exeter City Council
    @ExeterCouncil

    PCC Election Result - HERNANDEZ, ALISON SELINA (The Conservative Party Candidate) is duly elected as Police and Crime Commissioner for the Devon & Cornwall Police area.

    https://bit.ly/3f9sxzB"

    https://twitter.com/ExeterCouncil/status/1391872615082516483

    247k versus 99k for Labour in second.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,201
    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,569
    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
    Although if you could pick a reason for vaccine delay it'd certainly be that one!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980
    edited May 10
    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 32,735
    edited May 10
    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
    Also lack of management capacity....

    https://twitter.com/bijans/status/1391880497547075589
    CEO friend demands I post a more accurate version of what he said “you can’t be a bunch of knuckleheads for 32 years and be brilliant in the 33rd year”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804

    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502

    Why? It's just a photo.
    Not being very good will haunt him much, much more.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 32,735
    edited May 10
    Interesting stat - on any given day, 2% of those who are Covid positive carry 90% of the entire viral load.
    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1391849379280023552
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 4,347
    Dancing remains banned at weddings. What a time to be alive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 32,735
    dixiedean said:

    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502

    Why? It's just a photo.
    Not being very good will haunt him much, much more.
    How much time will he have to find out ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219

    Dancing remains banned at weddings. What a time to be alive.

    Could this be one of the unexpected side benefits of COVID? A silver lining!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,021

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    If civil war was avoided then what was all the bombings about?

    My hometown was bombed when I was a kid, seven decades after partition. There was frequent fighting throughout all that period, off and on again. That was a civil war.
    From 1921 to 1969 there wasn't a civil war.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 32,735
    edited May 10

    Dancing remains banned at weddings. What a time to be alive.

    For some of us, that’s a net positive.
    (I see I am not alone in this thought.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 32,735
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
    Also lack of management capacity....

    https://twitter.com/bijans/status/1391880497547075589
    CEO friend demands I post a more accurate version of what he said “you can’t be a bunch of knuckleheads for 32 years and be brilliant in the 33rd year”
    (Novavax was founded in 1987.)
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,318
    Nigelb said:

    Dancing remains banned at weddings. What a time to be alive.

    For some of us, that’s a net positive.
    (I see I am not alone in this thought.)
    Wish they'd have banned best man's speeches.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,147
    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
    I keep seeing people say their data is amazing. It's frustrating that the approval isn't able to happen yet.
  • theoldpoliticstheoldpolitics Posts: 155

    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


    Excellent evidence of hateful terrorism, indeed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 67,843
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    That's never going to happen, it's just a tactic to try to worry the SNP.

    And in any case do we want to open that door given its one of the reasons used as to why Scotland should separate from the UK, in that some remainer areas should have been allowed to stay in the EU?
    it's entirely plausible, especially the Borders. They are fiercely pro-Union. They might fancy staying with England rather than taking a massive gamble with a currency-less Scotland run by Nationalist nutters who want to repudiate the debt... and David Hume (colonialist bastard!)

    I can see the Orks and Shet wanting to go indy-indy. Become vegan tax havens like Man or the Channel Isles but greener

    Basically, the SNP is Glasgow and Dundee and odd bits of the Hebrides
    There's a difference between not wanting to leave a union between England and Scotland and the also rans (jk), and actually switching between the two though.

    As far as consolations go in the event of Sindy it sounds lovely, but realistically and practically it sounds like a no goer and an even bigger tinder box. You have to go back a long long way to the borders being significantly different, and despite what the Wessex regionalists might say ancient kingdoms don't means squat.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,436
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    If civil war was avoided then what was all the bombings about?

    My hometown was bombed when I was a kid, seven decades after partition. There was frequent fighting throughout all that period, off and on again. That was a civil war.
    From 1921 to 1969 there wasn't a civil war.
    1939-1940 S-Plan
    1942-1944 Northern Campaign
    1956-1962 Border Campaign

    Not at the level of a civil war (but then, neither were the Troubles by most definitions of "civil war"), but it's a bit of a misconception to think that all was sweetness and light in Northern Ireland prior to the late '60s.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980

    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


    Excellent evidence of hateful terrorism, indeed.
    Get The Hague on the phone, we've got a sling based war crime here.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    rpjs said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Why not?
    It was a resounding success in Ireland after all.
    It avoided a civil war in the North of Ireland yes
    If civil war was avoided then what was all the bombings about?

    My hometown was bombed when I was a kid, seven decades after partition. There was frequent fighting throughout all that period, off and on again. That was a civil war.
    From 1921 to 1969 there wasn't a civil war.
    1939-1940 S-Plan
    1942-1944 Northern Campaign
    1956-1962 Border Campaign

    Not at the level of a civil war (but then, neither were the Troubles by most definitions of "civil war"), but it's a bit of a misconception to think that all was sweetness and light in Northern Ireland prior to the late '60s.
    Esp. given Orange Apartheid.
  • theoldpoliticstheoldpolitics Posts: 155

    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


    Excellent evidence of hateful terrorism, indeed.
    Get The Hague on the phone, we've got a sling based war crime here.
    We've got the "march of return", a Hamas organised event whose objective is, in the words of its swastika-waving Islamist organisers, to "get into Israel, find the Jews, and cut their hearts from their bodies".

    That's the reality, even if you find it photogenic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,201
    dixiedean said:

    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502

    Why? It's just a photo.
    Not being very good will haunt him much, much more.
    But it is the photo of a man haunted by not being very good. That is why it is brilliant - it has captured the essence of the man.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,103
    Referring back to the conversation at the tail end of the last thread, Andy 'not a Westminster politician' Burnham is no more honest than Boris. But like Boris, he crafts his stories, and his persona, well.
    Kier Starmer telling on obvious truth, truthfully ('this table is brown') sounds less truthful and more evasive than Boris or Andy telling you the dog ate their homework. Not his fault, really. He's relatively inexperienced as a politican.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    Nigelb said:

    Dancing remains banned at weddings. What a time to be alive.

    For some of us, that’s a net positive.
    (I see I am not alone in this thought.)
    Elaine Benis Dances from Seinfeld
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQu_NLRvULM
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804

    dixiedean said:

    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502

    Why? It's just a photo.
    Not being very good will haunt him much, much more.
    But it is the photo of a man haunted by not being very good. That is why it is brilliant - it has captured the essence of the man.
    Perhaps. The contrast with the video of Burnham shared by uniondivvie upthread is striking.
    A man appearing confident in his skin whether you agree with him or not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 10,353
    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 28,980

    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


    Excellent evidence of hateful terrorism, indeed.
    Get The Hague on the phone, we've got a sling based war crime here.
    We've got the "march of return", a Hamas organised event whose objective is, in the words of its swastika-waving Islamist organisers, to "get into Israel, find the Jews, and cut their hearts from their bodies".

    That's the reality, even if you find it photogenic.
    You found all that 'excellent evidence' in that photo? What an eye you have.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited May 10

    dixiedean said:

    Surely, this picture is going to haunt Starmer through the rest of his term as LotO:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57052502

    Why? It's just a photo.
    Not being very good will haunt him much, much more.
    But it is the photo of a man haunted by not being very good. That is why it is brilliant - it has captured the essence of the man.
    When I see images like this, I am reminded why picture editors earn their salary. The shot just before and the shot just after are probably not quite as damning.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    The Times says there is to be a State Aid Bill. Not a Bill to creat a regime to avoid it, but a Bill to enable it. Wow. Quite the change from the Tory Party of old....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,103
    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
  • theoldpoliticstheoldpolitics Posts: 155

    Cracking pic, touch of Géricault even
    edit: or more Delacroix really


    Excellent evidence of hateful terrorism, indeed.
    Get The Hague on the phone, we've got a sling based war crime here.
    We've got the "march of return", a Hamas organised event whose objective is, in the words of its swastika-waving Islamist organisers, to "get into Israel, find the Jews, and cut their hearts from their bodies".

    That's the reality, even if you find it photogenic.
    You found all that 'excellent evidence' in that photo? What an eye you have.
    No, what I did was have broader knowledge and understand the context of things.

    You should try it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Disaster continues in Indian healthcare

    https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1391819833860247552
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    I've known Andy Burnham slightly for over 2 decades. This is him. The fake was the one crafted for him by New Labour handlers, to be the rising star of the fag end of a dying regime.
    Armani suits, eyeliner, and platitudes.
    His moaning is reasonable. Why is it double or more the price to use public transport outside London? Why, if it is so wonderful, was TFL never privatised?
    It is a pertinent question to which I have never heard an answer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    edited May 10
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
    The point is it is precisely what Boris would put out. And did.
    Ranting about food banks, wallpaper and Palestine having proved not to be a vote winner.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    Seattle Times ($) - Seattle’s diverse mayoral race: Are Democracy Vouchers bringing equity?

    In 2015, Seattle embarked on a bold new experiment.

    What if instead of the richest donors having an outsized political influence, Seattle residents of all backgrounds and incomes had the same opportunity to donate to political campaigns?

    That was the vision behind Seattle’s Democracy Vouchers, now in their third election cycle. This year, Democracy Vouchers are for the first time being used in the city’s mayoral race.

    Seattle is the first city in the country to implement a voucher program. Through the program, residents are given four, $25 vouchers to allocate to the candidates of their choice.

    In the first election cycle to use vouchers in 2017, nearly 21,000 people donated through the voucher program, more than twice the number that made a cash contribution to a political candidate, according to a report by the University of Washington.

    In the 2019 election cycle, participation dramatically increased, with more than 38,000 people using the program, including more than 80% first-time voucher users, a Georgetown University report showed.

    Even with the advances, however, only fewer than 7% of eligible residents used vouchers in 2019. . . .

    While the Georgetown report showed that voucher users were more representative of the electorate than cash donors who gave more than $25, the largest gains in voucher use came from white, older, higher-income residents who regularly voted.

    The role of independent expenditures also complicates the picture. In the 2019 election, for example, unrestricted money spent on Seattle elections more than doubled, led by contributions by Amazon. Yet even with the colossal money dump, the candidates bankrolled by business largely lost.

    Currently, all but one of the seven leading mayoral candidates are people of color, and two are Native American. More candidates could be announced in the coming days and weeks, but the diversity of the current pool is remarkable.

    In addition to the racial diversity of the mayoral candidate pool, the wealth and income diversity is significant as well. As The Seattle Times reported late last month, of the candidates who were in the race at the time of publication, net worth ranged from $0 to $15 million. Unlike in 2019 — when both final candidates were multimillionaires — this year, through the voucher program, a candidate with one of the highest fundraising totals is also the one with $0 personal net worth.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 16,895
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
    I've seen it well done in Basel and Copenhagen, having lived in both - a mix of trams, metros and buses complementing each make it easy to get anywhere without a car. I didn't bother with one in Basel (or London).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,006
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    I see Noravax is delayed until Q3 for approval, from the FT live feed:

    "Novavax has pushed back its timeline and will apply for authorisation of its vaccine in the UK, US and Europe in the third quarter of the year as the company struggles to quickly collate the data required for submission.

    “It’s just a long process,” Stanley Erck, chief executive of Novavax, told the Financial Times. “Our guidance had been that we’d get the project done by the second quarter and I’m now saying … we can’t get it all done by the end of June so it’s going to slip into the third quarter unfortunately.” "


    Probably means Noravax won't end up being a significant part of our vaccine mix? A shame, but increasing first doses should be easier in the second half of June in any case once the first wave of second vaccinations has been completed.

    It does seem as though the crashing infection rates here and in the US has slowed this one down significantly. :/
    Also lack of management capacity....

    https://twitter.com/bijans/status/1391880497547075589
    CEO friend demands I post a more accurate version of what he said “you can’t be a bunch of knuckleheads for 32 years and be brilliant in the 33rd year”
    (Novavax was founded in 1987.)
    According to @Charles, their nickname is "No vax"
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    edited May 10

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
    I've seen it well done in Basel and Copenhagen, having lived in both - a mix of trams, metros and buses complementing each make it easy to get anywhere without a car. I didn't bother with one in Basel (or London).
    Nick, re: Copenhagen, have you ever crossed the drawbridge that was the big star in "Reptilicus" possibly the worst Godzilla tribute movie ever made?

    Bridge scene was the only good bit. Even though it (like the rest) was dumb as hell.

    Reptilicus (1961) - Langebro
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxMLrq9CIqo
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,103
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
    The point is it is precisely what Boris would put out. And did.
    Ranting about food banks and Palestine having proved not to be a vote winner.
    Agree absolutely. Burnham and Boris are both authentic in their own way. Both can talk about the sorts of issues people want to hear about.

    Further edit to the above - despite a slow bus and a slow tram, you'd be unlucky to take an hour and a quarter to get from Middleton to Media City at 7.15am. Google maps (whose public transport journey planner is better than most) reckons about an hour.
    The point of the story is still valid. But there's a bit of craft to the storytelling.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 13,804
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    Now fully watched the video.
    And the substantive point is fine - we can integrate fares and connectivity in public transport in GM better. And it's slow to get from Middleton to Media City.
    But if you know your GM transport, there's a few questions. What's Market Street tram stop got to do with it? The video shows the bus at Piccadilly Gardens bus station, then a brief complaint about the buses not dropping you where the trams are, then him getting on a tram at Piccadilly Gardens tram stop (for that is where the trams to Media City go from). WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO PICCADILLY GARDENS BUS STATION. It couldn't be any closer.
    And orbital links 'like other cities have' - well, London to some extent, but what other cities? And why would an orbital link work any better? Media City isn't far enough out to be on any orbital link.
    It's a well put together video making some good points, with lashings of layered on authenticity - but is it necessarily any more 'honest' than anything Boris puts out? Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we prefer the carefully crafted stories of good politicians to actual dull truth.
    The point is it is precisely what Boris would put out. And did.
    Ranting about food banks and Palestine having proved not to be a vote winner.
    Agree absolutely. Burnham and Boris are both authentic in their own way. Both can talk about the sorts of issues people want to hear about.

    Further edit to the above - despite a slow bus and a slow tram, you'd be unlucky to take an hour and a quarter to get from Middleton to Media City at 7.15am. Google maps (whose public transport journey planner is better than most) reckons about an hour.
    The point of the story is still valid. But there's a bit of craft to the storytelling.
    A bit of craft to the storytelling. That's politics. The PM has it in spades. Can only see one opposition figure who even has it in clubs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,021
    "Zero Covid deaths for England, Scotland and NI"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57055340
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Mind you, the risk to Burnham is that Boris says “I agree” and supercharges Transport for the North, chaired by Ben Houchen...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219
    Andy_JS said:
    The author of this story needs a refresher course in English, or maybe a better proof reader? Because the first sentence, as written, could be interpreted (as yours truly did a first glance) as saying that the governments rationale for this measure, was to PROTECT ethnic & minority voters, when what it means is the critics are complaining it would HURT them.

    Boris, Patel & Co must have had a seance to summon the spirit of Henry Addington, 1st Viscount Sidmouth. The most reactionary Home Secretaries & Prime Ministers in the history of the Tory Party. Which is saying a LOT.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,219

    Andy_JS said:
    The author of this story needs a refresher course in English, or maybe a better proof reader? Because the first sentence, as written, could be interpreted (as yours truly did a first glance) as saying that the governments rationale for this measure, was to PROTECT ethnic & minority voters, when what it means is the critics are complaining it would HURT them.

    Boris, Patel & Co must have had a seance to summon the spirit of Henry Addington, 1st Viscount Sidmouth. The most reactionary Home Secretaries & Prime Ministers in the history of the Tory Party. Which is saying a LOT.
    You'll be lucky under this government IF you are not required eventually to have your voter ID number tattooed on your butt. Sorta like what George W Bush has on his. Except W is not required to drop his drawers to exercise his franchise.

    Though we should NOT give either Boris OR Secret POTUS any new ideas!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,021
    "Ian Dunt Retweeted
    The Churchill Project

    @WinstonCProject
    "Boris Johnson’s voter ID plans ‘illiberal solution for non-existent problem’, says senior Tory."

    "David Davis urges Govt to abandon 'Pointless Proposals'."

    "The "Unnecessary" and "Pointless" proposals should be abandoned by the Govt.""

    https://twitter.com/WinstonCProject/status/1391724638309396482
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,354
    Andy_JS said:
    You are right - this is appalling.

    An issue that matters to and affects millions - social care - where we were told the PM already had a worked up solution, has been shamelessly parked, yet again.

    Meanwhile an issue that matters to next to no-one, where there is no proven problem of any scale to solve, goes into the Queen’s Speech. Despite independent experts advising that the proposal is misguided and damaging. Despite the government’s own trials having failed, by any objective assessment, to demonstrate any benefit while having the effect of turning hundreds away and denying them their rightful vote.

    The requirement that anyone without a passport or driving license must apply to their local council, in advance, for a special voting ID card, or have their vote taken away, is straight out of the US Republican playbook.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 9,755
    edited May 11

    Andy_JS said:
    The author of this story needs a refresher course in English, or maybe a better proof reader? Because the first sentence, as written, could be interpreted (as yours truly did a first glance) as saying that the governments rationale for this measure, was to PROTECT ethnic & minority voters, when what it means is the critics are complaining it would HURT them.

    Boris, Patel & Co must have had a seance to summon the spirit of Henry Addington, 1st Viscount Sidmouth. The most reactionary Home Secretaries & Prime Ministers in the history of the Tory Party. Which is saying a LOT.
    That first sentence is even worse than you suggest:-
    Britons will have to show photo ID to vote in future general elections, ministers are poised to confirm this week, as a means of tackling fraud which critics claim could deter poorer and ethnic minority voters from taking part in democracy.

    The problem is not that it "could deter poorer and ethnic minority voters" but that it could disenfranchise them because they do not already have passports or driving licences. Deterrence, which suggests the Guardian thinks these voters have something to hide, does not come into it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,201
    Andy_JS said:

    "Zero Covid deaths for England, Scotland and NI"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57055340

    Drakeford's superpowers on the wane as 4 die in Wales?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,021
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,214
    Leon said:

    That's very good. The right mix of positivity and moaning. He's lost the Bambi cartoon prettiness and seems real. I'm sure it's all fake but it's very well faked, he has a good media team

    Yes, he could be a new kind of Labour leader, and win
    New fake Labour.leader,?.. it worked for Blair
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,532
    Andy_JS said:
    Yes - as I spotted a few days ago - in the wake of their recent success in the Madrid regional election and the announcement of a raft of new taxes and road tolls by the central socialist government.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 167

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Bonkers.
    Just what we need. Another Nothern Ireland. No wonder Cameron was so bad at constitutional matters, if that was his teacher.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 167

    Mind you, the risk to Burnham is that Boris says “I agree” and supercharges Transport for the North, chaired by Ben Houchen...

    Houchen ....the real king of the North.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited May 11
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    You are right - this is appalling.

    Whilst I'm no fan of the erosion of civil liberties, showing a photo ID in order to vote is an excellent proposal for protecting democracy. It will be popular with mainstream voters.

    Complaining about this is woke.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 41,638

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    You are right - this is appalling.

    Whilst I'm no fan of the erosion of civil liberties, showing a photo ID in order to vote is an excellent proposal for protecting democracy. It will be popular with mainstream voters.

    Complaining about this is woke.
    No it isn’t. It’s fundamentally unBritish. Like vaccine passports.

    And I suspect is being introduced for the same reason - to bring in ID cards by stealth.

    Which is (a) a sign of cowardly this government is that it doesn’t have the fortitude to admit it and (b) will mean that all the safeguards we would need against our very corrupt and ineffectual civil service misusing them will not be put in place.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 19,632
    Nunu3 said:

    HYUFD said:

    On Scotland, Cameron's old tutor at Oxford Vernon Bogdanor suggests partitioning Scotland if it ever voted for independence and enabling some Unionist areas to stay in the UK

    https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1391821463724990464?s=20

    Bonkers.
    Just what we need. Another Nothern Ireland. No wonder Cameron was so bad at constitutional matters, if that was his teacher.
    I certainly agree that Westminster shouldn’t instigate such a partition, but it shouldn’t be discounted that some areas might do it themselves.
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