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Football fans appear markedly more enthusiastic about Boris and Keir than the public at large – poli

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,431

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    Today both Boris and Gove have said he paid for the flat makeover

    Labour and others will have to prove that did not happen

    But paid only when rumbled. Not sure that gets him off.
    There's precedent. Quite a number of MPs managed to avoid jail following the expenses scandal using that logic.
    Not doing something jail worthy does not equal all above board of course.
    The thing that still stings me most about the MPs' Expenses Fiddling was the declaration that was signed for every expense by every MP:

    eg I confirm that I incurred these expenses wholly, exclusively and necessarily to enable me stay overnght away from my only or main home for the purpose of performing my duties as...

    When you consider MPs spending eg £600 on houseplants four years running via such a declaration, then that in my view is perjury, which is jail worthy, as the statement is a lie. I would be interested in any comment from a real lawyer. I am not aware of any one prosecuted for this.

    Here is the second home form, with that declaration:


    They were all “at it” because a culture grew up whereby it was considered Ok to claim given derisory remuneration.

    Remuneration is still derisory.
    We may be going to disagree here.

    A top 4% income is not derisory. It is simply not. Especially when you add a 1/60th or 1/40th Final Salary pension on top, with an approx. 10k a year employer contribution.

    And add in all the other elements of the package.

    And I am not aware that "we were all doing it Guv" is a defence in law.
    Happy to disagree :)

    An MP’s base salary is derisory given comparative jobs (senior doctors, barristers, or even executive managers in the public sector).

    “They’re all at it” is not a defence in contract law, but it might be in common law. Or; it may mitigate any penalties.
    The mistake with such discussions is the assumption that, were MPs to be paid more, the incentive for them to fiddle their expenses or abuse their position to attract wealth would reduce.

    All my experience of dealing with high paid people and their expenses tells me the opposite.

    If we had people as MPs who had been attracted by the salary, the problems we would have with fraud and corruption would be worse, not better.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    The Director of the Wellcome Trust:

    Tragic every perspective. A safe effective vaccine, developed with public, private & philanthropic funding over years, a founder & company committed to not for profit vaccine, that can be manufactured at scale & used globally now subject to legal actions

    https://twitter.com/JeremyFarrar/status/1386742044182433800?s=20
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