Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Analysing the market on Biden serving a full term – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,167
edited April 2021 in General
imageAnalysing the market on Biden serving a full term – politicalbetting.com

In recent wweks Joe Biden’s struggles up the stairs of Air Force One attracted much comment from his opponents and critics. It is a bit of an awkward watch, for some reason it reminded me of Ed Miliband’s inability to eat a bacon sandwich.

Read the full story here

«134567

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    Surely, i'm not first?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited April 2021
    Second!

    Thread was launched into a void to begin with.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Good morning all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited April 2021

    Surely, i'm not first?

    Under the old system you would have been, but with TSE in charge we’re using AV so I’m afraid you came fourth.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    ydoethur said:

    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)

    Bartlet?
  • ydoethur said:

    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)

    Bush 43.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/index.html
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390
    Minor typo - what's a wwek?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    As I tweeted yesterday, India should be on the red list (as should many other countries that currently aren't btw) *and* Johnson should *not* go on a trip to Delhi this month! madness!

    https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1382733889840484357
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,749
    FPT

    Plenty has been written about why there was no inflation post 2008 in goods and services, despite the huge increase in the money supply.

    The most compelling explanation I’ve seen is that the highly globalised state of the major economies meant imported deflation kept headline inflation down. All the while, asset price inflation was pretty rampant. Mark Blythe has shown that in the last 20 years most of the real wealth gains have accrued to a tiny fraction of percent of the global population, with a smidgen to the masses in the emerging world. Joe Public in the West have largely had flatlined real incomes.

    Monetarists will look at today’s less globalised world, a potential Cold War with China, more tightly restricted immigration etc... and conclude we’re headed finally for the headline inflation dragon to roar once again, as their models predict. If and when it doesn’t, they’ll no doubt have smart explanations after the event as to why it didn’t. Spoiler alert: it was the unfolding energy revolution that will be seen to have kept prices low.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    edited April 2021

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    Yes, and I am pretty certain that we will see the effects soon as Gujerati snowbirds return to Leicester.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
  • eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
  • andypetukandypetuk Posts: 69
    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    Lot of 'ifs' here, but if the Indian variant ends up being able to escape vaccine and there were no travel restrictions because Johnson wanted to go there and do a trade deal talk, then surely his vaccine bounce poll boost would be over?


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
  • andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    Tories take a 14% lead with Yougov as Greens reach 8% and tied with LDs

    Tories 43%
    Lab 29%
    LDs 8%
    Greens 8%

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)

    Bush 43.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/index.html
    Thanks.

    So again, Secret Service guards not a lot of use there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,761
    Foxy said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    Yes, and I am pretty certain that we will see the effects soon as Gujerati snowbirds return to Leicester.
    FFS. How many times are we going to make these mistakes?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
  • andypetukandypetuk Posts: 69

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Thanks!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    Provided Biden is not completely incapacitated he seems to want to run again, probably best for the Democrats as I cannot see any of the current alternatives to him having the appeal he did to white working class and lower middle class swing voters in the key swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin which Hillary lost in 2016 but Biden won in 2020 and without which Trump would still be in the White House
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,533
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Tories take a 14% lead with Yougov as Greens reach 8% and tied with LDs

    Tories 43%
    Lab 29%
    LDs 8%
    Greens 8%

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=20

    Looks like an outlier for Labour; and when something looks like an outlier it often is. It isn't credible given the consistency of Labour numbers recently.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)

    Bush 43.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/index.html
    Thanks.

    So again, Secret Service guards not a lot of use there.
    Wasn't that the one where the guy threw the grenade, but it ended up 20 meters short of Bush?
  • i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    The report from India this morning said that daily infections rates have risen from 20,000 daily to 150,000 and whole families are succumbing to it

    It is out of control and the Indian authorities have failed to prevent hundreds of thousands of Hindu devotees gathering at the Ganges River flouting existing social distancing rules

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Lol, keep losing Starmer.
  • ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
    Yes.

    It is the bane of my existence.
  • Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,448
    Fishing said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
    Well, it's obvious Boris is concerned about appearance.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,800
    The porous borders are bloody ridiculous.

    If we're ok it'll be a matter of blind luck. If we're not, it'll be because of an obvious and repeated policy failing by the Government.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,533

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,749
    Fishing said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
    I wouldn’t care so much if at least you were allowed to travel the other way.

    I’m still expecting some sort of two households rule bullshit this Christmas and they’ll expect us to be thankful for it compared with last year.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited April 2021
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tories take a 14% lead with Yougov as Greens reach 8% and tied with LDs

    Tories 43%
    Lab 29%
    LDs 8%
    Greens 8%

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=20

    Looks like an outlier for Labour; and when something looks like an outlier it often is. It isn't credible given the consistency of Labour numbers recently.
    I would be extremely worried about that poll, if I was Starmer. Even if it's an outlier, the movement to the Greens and Lib Dems highlights something i've mentioned at various times over the last few months ; with his increasing focus on the red wall, he's had no new balancing offer to metropolitan Britain. This transfer began with the expulsion of Corbyn, as I predicted it at the time, and it still seems not to be under control for them.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612

    As I tweeted yesterday, India should be on the red list (as should many other countries that currently aren't btw) *and* Johnson should *not* go on a trip to Delhi this month! madness!

    https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1382733889840484357

    It should be remembered that the South London South African outbreak was started by someone entering from an African country not on the red list.

    He then infected a bunch of antivaxxers who worked at a care home.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    The porous borders are bloody ridiculous.

    If we're ok it'll be a matter of blind luck. If we're not, it'll be because of an obvious and repeated policy failing by the Government.

    In fairness, the vaccine rollout hasn’t been perfect but hasn’t been blind luck either. And if we’re OK it will be because the variants don’t materially undermine the effectiveness of the vaccines.

    But I agree, the government have been and still are making far too many avoidable errors. And that’s basically because they have shockingly poor judgement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,192
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who was the last US President to have a serious assassination attempt made on them? I’m thinking it was Reagan in 1981?

    (Although it should be noted that the bystanders were at least as important in thwarting that as his bodyguards were.)

    Bush 43.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/index.html
    Thanks.

    So again, Secret Service guards not a lot of use there.
    Yes, but generally you won't hear about most of the stuff they do foil, so there's something of a selection bias going on.

    On topic, I think the odds on Biden not completing his first term ought to be a great deal longer (though he might choose not to run again). As TSE suggests, much better bets are available on next President, or Democratic nominee.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,749
    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    Why? Corbyn was fairly uniquely suited to uniting the left vote. Starmer can’t do it. Thirty odd percent is about the normal course for a poorly performing opposition party.

    8% green feels like a lot but it’s an issue more care about every year and it’s in the context of the Lib Dem’s still be well behind their historic totals.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    FPT:

    Alistair said:

    Fun with Covid Data.

    Sweden is weird, here are their numbers to the 5th of April, they are from top to bottom Cases / ICU admission / Deaths



    Look how weird that is! Cases rising since the 1st of Feb, ICU admissions rising since the first of Feb. Deaths are... down since 1st of Feb and now currently flat.

    I mean don't get me wrong they are flat at the UK equivalent of 125 people dying of Covid a day but their current ICU Covid occupancy is now higher than their December/Jan peak where they had the UK equivalent of 600 a day dying. They are now hit those Dec/Jan numbers again for every indicator apart from deaths.

    Overall ICU occupancy in Sweden is massively above average so this isn't a with/of Covid distinction, Their ICUs are rammed with full on Covid cases. And deaths are not being 'hidden', their whole country mortatlity numbers for March are _under_ the 2015-2019 average.

    That's weird. Swedes are obviously made of sterner stuff than other countries.

    If we think our death-by-date figures are lagged, Sweden makes us look like nothing. At the best of times, it takes two weeks for the lag to catch up (I tracked it for a while when people were going on about it during their second wave in December/January).

    Always ignore the last two weeks of death data from Sweden and compare the death figures from two weeks ago with the cases from five weeks ago to give a better view.

    (You could also argue that if the proportion of deaths that have occurred that are recorded against a given date is decreasing as you move from two weeks back to the present - that is, you go from 100% or so of deaths being recorded by 2 weeks ago to under 10% by a couple of days ago, and the line of deaths is flat, it's quite an alarming line...)

    If you grey out the most recent two weeks of death figures as lagged, and then compare the infections to deaths that should have occurred from them, you get this:



    The deaths still look a bit flattened in comparison to the cases, at least to my eye, but nowhere near the mystifying level of flatness that you see if you don't do that.

    It looks to me as though cases rose about 20-25% in that box and deaths may have climbed a few percent, but that's hard to make out - but well within normal fluctuations based on the randomish distribution of deaths and ages.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,192
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
    That maybe the case....
  • algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    In that case, I am calling BS.

    I can believe Labour are struggling but not that they’re behind in London. Sampling error.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    As I tweeted yesterday, India should be on the red list (as should many other countries that currently aren't btw) *and* Johnson should *not* go on a trip to Delhi this month! madness!

    https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1382733889840484357

    Just seems so unbelievably obvious. Starmer at least is saying current policy won't work but his criticisms don't seem to be cutting through.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612
    ydoethur said:

    The porous borders are bloody ridiculous.

    If we're ok it'll be a matter of blind luck. If we're not, it'll be because of an obvious and repeated policy failing by the Government.

    In fairness, the vaccine rollout hasn’t been perfect but hasn’t been blind luck either. And if we’re OK it will be because the variants don’t materially undermine the effectiveness of the vaccines.

    But I agree, the government have been and still are making far too many avoidable errors. And that’s basically because they have shockingly poor judgement.
    Judgment would suggest they're making decisions.

    They're not.

    They're just going with what they feel.

    Which is globalist sociopathy as regarding international travel and authoritarian sociopathy in regards to domestic restrictions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited April 2021

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Main swing from 2019 Labour to Green, less so LD to Labour, Tories unchanged
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,800
    Mr. Doethur, the vaccine rollout has been great. That doesn't stop the policy on borders being indefensibly stupid.
  • ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    In that case, I am calling BS.

    I can believe Labour are struggling but not that they’re behind in London. Sampling error.
    Conservatives lead Labour in every region apart from the North - 40/37 to Labour
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Fishing said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
    Well, it's obvious Boris is concerned about appearance.
    My wife noticed how short Boris's hair is now and says that means he's planning to put us back into lockdown and close the hairdresser's again.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612

    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    Beware subsamples.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,192
    There’s a notorious neo-Nazi political leader on the loose somewhere in Europe. Authorities say they can’t find him, but signs point to a commune of renegade conservative monks.
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg8ekk/runaway-nazi-golden-dawn-christos-pappas-greece
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited April 2021

    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    It has the LDs on 20% in London now and the Greens on 7% in the capital, so more the centre left and liberal vote is split.
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/x3uculd6mi/TheTimes_Voting_Intention_Track_210414_W.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 43% (+2)
    LAB: 29% (-5)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDM: 8% (+2)
    RFM: 3% (=)

    Via @YouGov
    , 12-13 Apr.
    Changes w/ 7-8 Apr.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    SNP down to 46% in the poll Scottish subsample too and Scottish Conservatives up to 27%
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/x3uculd6mi/TheTimes_Voting_Intention_Track_210414_W.pdf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,192

    Fishing said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
    Well, it's obvious Boris is concerned about appearance.
    My wife noticed how short Boris's hair is now and says that means he's planning to put us back into lockdown and close the hairdresser's again.
    I just had my hair cut, too.
    And I'm not planning another lockdown...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612

    FPT:

    Alistair said:

    Fun with Covid Data.

    Sweden is weird, here are their numbers to the 5th of April, they are from top to bottom Cases / ICU admission / Deaths



    Look how weird that is! Cases rising since the 1st of Feb, ICU admissions rising since the first of Feb. Deaths are... down since 1st of Feb and now currently flat.

    I mean don't get me wrong they are flat at the UK equivalent of 125 people dying of Covid a day but their current ICU Covid occupancy is now higher than their December/Jan peak where they had the UK equivalent of 600 a day dying. They are now hit those Dec/Jan numbers again for every indicator apart from deaths.

    Overall ICU occupancy in Sweden is massively above average so this isn't a with/of Covid distinction, Their ICUs are rammed with full on Covid cases. And deaths are not being 'hidden', their whole country mortatlity numbers for March are _under_ the 2015-2019 average.

    That's weird. Swedes are obviously made of sterner stuff than other countries.

    If we think our death-by-date figures are lagged, Sweden makes us look like nothing. At the best of times, it takes two weeks for the lag to catch up (I tracked it for a while when people were going on about it during their second wave in December/January).

    Always ignore the last two weeks of death data from Sweden and compare the death figures from two weeks ago with the cases from five weeks ago to give a better view.

    (You could also argue that if the proportion of deaths that have occurred that are recorded against a given date is decreasing as you move from two weeks back to the present - that is, you go from 100% or so of deaths being recorded by 2 weeks ago to under 10% by a couple of days ago, and the line of deaths is flat, it's quite an alarming line...)

    If you grey out the most recent two weeks of death figures as lagged, and then compare the infections to deaths that should have occurred from them, you get this:



    The deaths still look a bit flattened in comparison to the cases, at least to my eye, but nowhere near the mystifying level of flatness that you see if you don't do that.

    It looks to me as though cases rose about 20-25% in that box and deaths may have climbed a few percent, but that's hard to make out - but well within normal fluctuations based on the randomish distribution of deaths and ages.
    Because of better treatment and some vaccination fewer people are dying quickly but are now lingering on in ICU.

    Consequences will be a longer tail of deaths plus increases of numbers with long covid.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,388

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    The report from India this morning said that daily infections rates have risen from 20,000 daily to 150,000 and whole families are succumbing to it

    It is out of control and the Indian authorities have failed to prevent hundreds of thousands of Hindu devotees gathering at the Ganges River flouting existing social distancing rules

    You really need to adjust for population size: 150,000 per day in India is equivalent to less than 10,000 in the UK, so our infection rate was much more 'out of control' back in January than it is in India now.

    But I don't deny it's very worrying, especially if, as seems likely, they are catching a much lower % of infections than we were.
  • DavidL said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
    And Boris is writing personal letters to Welsh voters, as Prime Minister, personally endorsing the Conservative candidate and highlighting the vaccine success and 22 years of labour failure
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Max size allowed, £20 on the 1-2 which is a gift quite honestly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
  • algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    Beware subsamples.
    I know but I have not seen it before
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    ydoethur said:

    The porous borders are bloody ridiculous.

    If we're ok it'll be a matter of blind luck. If we're not, it'll be because of an obvious and repeated policy failing by the Government.

    In fairness, the vaccine rollout hasn’t been perfect but hasn’t been blind luck either. And if we’re OK it will be because the variants don’t materially undermine the effectiveness of the vaccines.

    But I agree, the government have been and still are making far too many avoidable errors. And that’s basically because they have shockingly poor judgement.
    I think that's a bit unfair. Although I have been tearing my hair out (it was a lot easier before I got it cut) for the best part of a year about the lack of security on our borders I do recognise that this is a complicated picture where different harms need to be balanced against each other on the basis of pretty inadequate information. I don't agree with some of their calls but I accept that other judgments are more than possible on the evidence available.

    To take an example the massive increase in test and trace capacity over the last year gives us the surge capacity to do door to door testing if required over extended areas. The world leading genomic analysis of cases means we are almost certainly better at finding variants than anyone else. These tools in our kit bag do have to be taken into account when assessing the risk.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348

    FPT:

    Alistair said:

    Fun with Covid Data.

    Sweden is weird, here are their numbers to the 5th of April, they are from top to bottom Cases / ICU admission / Deaths



    Look how weird that is! Cases rising since the 1st of Feb, ICU admissions rising since the first of Feb. Deaths are... down since 1st of Feb and now currently flat.

    I mean don't get me wrong they are flat at the UK equivalent of 125 people dying of Covid a day but their current ICU Covid occupancy is now higher than their December/Jan peak where they had the UK equivalent of 600 a day dying. They are now hit those Dec/Jan numbers again for every indicator apart from deaths.

    Overall ICU occupancy in Sweden is massively above average so this isn't a with/of Covid distinction, Their ICUs are rammed with full on Covid cases. And deaths are not being 'hidden', their whole country mortatlity numbers for March are _under_ the 2015-2019 average.

    That's weird. Swedes are obviously made of sterner stuff than other countries.

    If we think our death-by-date figures are lagged, Sweden makes us look like nothing. At the best of times, it takes two weeks for the lag to catch up (I tracked it for a while when people were going on about it during their second wave in December/January).

    Always ignore the last two weeks of death data from Sweden and compare the death figures from two weeks ago with the cases from five weeks ago to give a better view.

    (You could also argue that if the proportion of deaths that have occurred that are recorded against a given date is decreasing as you move from two weeks back to the present - that is, you go from 100% or so of deaths being recorded by 2 weeks ago to under 10% by a couple of days ago, and the line of deaths is flat, it's quite an alarming line...)

    If you grey out the most recent two weeks of death figures as lagged, and then compare the infections to deaths that should have occurred from them, you get this:



    The deaths still look a bit flattened in comparison to the cases, at least to my eye, but nowhere near the mystifying level of flatness that you see if you don't do that.

    It looks to me as though cases rose about 20-25% in that box and deaths may have climbed a few percent, but that's hard to make out - but well within normal fluctuations based on the randomish distribution of deaths and ages.
    Wasn't Swedish Lag the reason that the Lockdown Sceptic types kept using the Swedish example?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
    Yes.

    It is the bane of my existence.
    Do you feel in charge?
  • i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    The report from India this morning said that daily infections rates have risen from 20,000 daily to 150,000 and whole families are succumbing to it

    It is out of control and the Indian authorities have failed to prevent hundreds of thousands of Hindu devotees gathering at the Ganges River flouting existing social distancing rules

    You really need to adjust for population size: 150,000 per day in India is equivalent to less than 10,000 in the UK, so our infection rate was much more 'out of control' back in January than it is in India now.

    But I don't deny it's very worrying, especially if, as seems likely, they are catching a much lower % of infections than we were.
    The reporter from India sounded very worried this morning
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    Fishing said:

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    It is frankly insane that France and the bulk of the EU are not.
    Is this list just picked by throwing darts at a map of the globe or is there some kind of logic?
    Probably the same kind of logic that says that nail salons are open, but museums aren't.
    Well, it's obvious Boris is concerned about appearance.
    My wife noticed how short Boris's hair is now and says that means he's planning to put us back into lockdown and close the hairdresser's again.
    At the barbers this week it was like an army movie. Hippies getting short back and sides. Mine should do me until August.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856

    i didnt realise this:

    "It is frankly insane that Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the UK travel red list countries but India is not. "

    pure politics presumably with pm visit coming.

    The report from India this morning said that daily infections rates have risen from 20,000 daily to 150,000 and whole families are succumbing to it

    It is out of control and the Indian authorities have failed to prevent hundreds of thousands of Hindu devotees gathering at the Ganges River flouting existing social distancing rules

    You really need to adjust for population size: 150,000 per day in India is equivalent to less than 10,000 in the UK, so our infection rate was much more 'out of control' back in January than it is in India now.

    But I don't deny it's very worrying, especially if, as seems likely, they are catching a much lower % of infections than we were.
    You are assuming that their measured number of cases relates to the number of cases in the community as opposed to testing capacity. You may be right but I am not confident that you are.
  • Foxy said:

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
    Do you think so

    I doubt many people are even aware of the May elections yet
  • DavidL said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
    And Boris is writing personal letters to Welsh voters, as Prime Minister, personally endorsing the Conservative candidate and highlighting the vaccine success and 22 years of labour failure
    But Boris Johnson trails Mark Drakeford in the leader ratings Wales.

    Those letters will be damaging to Tory prospects in Wales.

    Given how bad you say Mark Drakeford is surely it must worry you that Boris Johnson trails Drakeford in Wales?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375110941994541056
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,533

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tories take a 14% lead with Yougov as Greens reach 8% and tied with LDs

    Tories 43%
    Lab 29%
    LDs 8%
    Greens 8%

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=20

    Looks like an outlier for Labour; and when something looks like an outlier it often is. It isn't credible given the consistency of Labour numbers recently.
    I would be extremely worried about that poll, if I was Starmer. Even if it's an outlier, the movement to the Greens and Lib Dems highlights something i've mentioned at various times over the last few months ; with his increasing focus on the red wall, he's had no new balancing offer to metropolitan Britain. This transfer began with the expulsion of Corbyn, as I predicted it at the time, and it still seems not to be under control for them.
    I agree SKS should be worried, even though this poll is exaggerated (I believe!). The worry is that he does not address a coherent spectrum of opinion across the middle of Britain. The Tories do exactly that, and the fact that non Tories are in denial about it won't help them.

    Labour needs special interest enclaves to win a huge number of seats. These have little in common with each other, nor do they form an ideological or connected whole.

    Ask the question: Which party best comprehends the idea that genuine aspiration and ambition in huge swathes of Britain would include becoming a white van man with one employee? White van man believes that Boris gets them. Their jury is out about SKS.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    Foxy said:

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
    Or just looking for somebody, anybody, to oppose the government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021

    DavidL said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
    And Boris is writing personal letters to Welsh voters, as Prime Minister, personally endorsing the Conservative candidate and highlighting the vaccine success and 22 years of labour failure
    But Boris Johnson trails Mark Drakeford in the leader ratings Wales.

    Those letters will be damaging to Tory prospects in Wales.

    Given how bad you say Mark Drakeford is surely it must worry you that Boris Johnson trails Drakeford in Wales?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375110941994541056
    I am not the least bit worried about Drakeford

    And I have no doubt the conservatives have private polling indicating that Boris vaccine success is recognised in Wales

    Indeed, I do not know of a Welsh poster on here who would back your comments
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    Foxy said:

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
    Do you think so

    I doubt many people are even aware of the May elections yet
    People vote differently in Locals (and Assembly, Mayoral, Holyrood etc) than GE, and both LDs and Greens do better in these. I think a lot of the Green vote is disenchanted Corbynistas too.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Max size allowed, £20 on the 1-2 which is a gift quite honestly.

    10 quid return in four years though was what put me off.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
    Or just looking for somebody, anybody, to oppose the government.
    Yes there is that too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    That YouGov poll also has the SNP polling 1% in the South of England outside of London.

    H/T - David Herdson.

    Does that region include Corby?
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    andypetuk said:

    Does anyone have any more details on the YouGov poll in The Times?

    It has:

    Conservatives 43
    Labour 29

    Other parties not listed, but apparently Lib Dems and Greens are beneficiaries of 5 point Labour drop.

    Con 43 (+2)

    Lab 29 (-5)

    LD 8 (+2)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Reform 3 (nc)
    Looks like people thinking about locals rather than GE to me.
    Do you think so

    I doubt many people are even aware of the May elections yet
    People vote differently in Locals (and Assembly, Mayoral, Holyrood etc) than GE, and both LDs and Greens do better in these. I think a lot of the Green vote is disenchanted Corbynistas too.
    Maybe
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    FPT:

    Alistair said:

    Fun with Covid Data.

    Sweden is weird, here are their numbers to the 5th of April, they are from top to bottom Cases / ICU admission / Deaths



    Look how weird that is! Cases rising since the 1st of Feb, ICU admissions rising since the first of Feb. Deaths are... down since 1st of Feb and now currently flat.

    I mean don't get me wrong they are flat at the UK equivalent of 125 people dying of Covid a day but their current ICU Covid occupancy is now higher than their December/Jan peak where they had the UK equivalent of 600 a day dying. They are now hit those Dec/Jan numbers again for every indicator apart from deaths.

    Overall ICU occupancy in Sweden is massively above average so this isn't a with/of Covid distinction, Their ICUs are rammed with full on Covid cases. And deaths are not being 'hidden', their whole country mortatlity numbers for March are _under_ the 2015-2019 average.

    That's weird. Swedes are obviously made of sterner stuff than other countries.

    If we think our death-by-date figures are lagged, Sweden makes us look like nothing. At the best of times, it takes two weeks for the lag to catch up (I tracked it for a while when people were going on about it during their second wave in December/January).

    Always ignore the last two weeks of death data from Sweden and compare the death figures from two weeks ago with the cases from five weeks ago to give a better view.

    (You could also argue that if the proportion of deaths that have occurred that are recorded against a given date is decreasing as you move from two weeks back to the present - that is, you go from 100% or so of deaths being recorded by 2 weeks ago to under 10% by a couple of days ago, and the line of deaths is flat, it's quite an alarming line...)

    If you grey out the most recent two weeks of death figures as lagged, and then compare the infections to deaths that should have occurred from them, you get this:



    The deaths still look a bit flattened in comparison to the cases, at least to my eye, but nowhere near the mystifying level of flatness that you see if you don't do that.

    It looks to me as though cases rose about 20-25% in that box and deaths may have climbed a few percent, but that's hard to make out - but well within normal fluctuations based on the randomish distribution of deaths and ages.
    Wasn't Swedish Lag the reason that the Lockdown Sceptic types kept using the Swedish example?
    Yeah.
    I went back and read David Paton's weekly updates on Sweden through December. Reading those, you'd never have realised that they had their big second wave growing and cresting at the time and through December, their per capita death rate exceeded ours.
  • ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
    Yes.

    It is the bane of my existence.
    Do you feel in charge?
    Bane was a visionary.

    1) Wore a mask

    2) Locked down a city

    3) Cancelled sporting events

    4) Knew the root of the problem was a bat.
  • Foxy said:

    That YouGov poll also has the SNP polling 1% in the South of England outside of London.

    H/T - David Herdson.

    Does that region include Corby?
    Nope, that's in YouGov's (East) Midlands zone.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670



    Wasn't Swedish Lag the reason that the Lockdown Sceptic types kept using the Swedish example?

    Ja. But Sweden has got a lot better at timely reporting.

    https://adamaltmejd.se/covid/ shows how Swedeish deathas have updated over time (as well as projecting what final figures will look like



    Late Nov, December, January was clown shoes for timely reporting - some of the data in those "14 day" bands arrived over a month later. Unless they are about to dump a whole bunch extra deaths they seem to have got death reporting down to 14-18 days to completion now.
  • Another multiple shooting in the US and it hardly registers as news
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Pulpstar said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 43% (+2)
    LAB: 29% (-5)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDM: 8% (+2)
    RFM: 3% (=)

    Via @YouGov
    , 12-13 Apr.
    Changes w/ 7-8 Apr.

    Any chance of a thread on this Poll?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 43% (+2)
    LAB: 29% (-5)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDM: 8% (+2)
    RFM: 3% (=)

    Via @YouGov
    , 12-13 Apr.
    Changes w/ 7-8 Apr.

    Any chance of a thread on this Poll?
    I doubt it very much
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited April 2021
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tories take a 14% lead with Yougov as Greens reach 8% and tied with LDs

    Tories 43%
    Lab 29%
    LDs 8%
    Greens 8%

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=20

    Looks like an outlier for Labour; and when something looks like an outlier it often is. It isn't credible given the consistency of Labour numbers recently.
    I would be extremely worried about that poll, if I was Starmer. Even if it's an outlier, the movement to the Greens and Lib Dems highlights something i've mentioned at various times over the last few months ; with his increasing focus on the red wall, he's had no new balancing offer to metropolitan Britain. This transfer began with the expulsion of Corbyn, as I predicted it at the time, and it still seems not to be under control for them.
    I agree SKS should be worried, even though this poll is exaggerated (I believe!). The worry is that he does not address a coherent spectrum of opinion across the middle of Britain. The Tories do exactly that, and the fact that non Tories are in denial about it won't help them.

    Labour needs special interest enclaves to win a huge number of seats. These have little in common with each other, nor do they form an ideological or connected whole.

    Ask the question: Which party best comprehends the idea that genuine aspiration and ambition in huge swathes of Britain would include becoming a white van man with one employee? White van man believes that Boris gets them. Their jury is out about SKS.

    The key for Starmer in this once again is Wilson. He understood both social aspiration, intellectual aspiration, and the redistributive impetus, reflected in how he managed and balanced the party.

    Starmer quite quickly needs to find a balancing figure to Claire Ainsley, and then someone overseeing both of them to thrash out commonalities, which is quite possible at it was in the 1960s. Wilson's Labour extended from working-class patriotism to the Beatles.
  • Alistair said:



    Wasn't Swedish Lag the reason that the Lockdown Sceptic types kept using the Swedish example?

    Ja. But Sweden has got a lot better at timely reporting.

    https://adamaltmejd.se/covid/ shows how Swedeish deathas have updated over time (as well as projecting what final figures will look like



    Late Nov, December, January was clown shoes for timely reporting - some of the data in those "14 day" bands arrived over a month later. Unless they are about to dump a whole bunch extra deaths they seem to have got death reporting down to 14-18 days to completion now.
    My son moved permanently to Sweden in October and remains very relaxed about being there despite the recent rise in cases. (My granddaughter kindly brought Covid back from nursery and passed it on to both her parents.) His view is that the health service is not overwhelmed and his main concern is potentially being able to visit us in late summer.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    No. It is bad but not that bad. This poll is wrong
    It has Conservatives ahead of Labour in London 36/34
    In that case, I am calling BS.

    I can believe Labour are struggling but not that they’re behind in London. Sampling error.
    Conservatives lead Labour in every region apart from the North - 40/37 to Labour
    Labour aren't on 29 and the subsamples are likely wrong but it pushes the lower bound for Labour down, remember minor parties are more likely to score well in local elections compared to GEs - again I think this is bad news for Labour; there are plenty of Ind for their vote to splinter off to.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606

    DavidL said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
    And Boris is writing personal letters to Welsh voters, as Prime Minister, personally endorsing the Conservative candidate and highlighting the vaccine success and 22 years of labour failure
    But Boris Johnson trails Mark Drakeford in the leader ratings Wales.

    Those letters will be damaging to Tory prospects in Wales.

    Given how bad you say Mark Drakeford is surely it must worry you that Boris Johnson trails Drakeford in Wales?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375110941994541056
    Feedback I'm getting back is that Drakeford is getting a decent reaction on the doorstep.
    The Tories are clearly worried about their man in Wales, Andrew RT Davies. If you think Drakeford is bad, Davies is 10x worse. Totally useless.
    Having said all that, it is a concern for me that if this poll is anywhere near right, Tories are going to do far better than they deserve in May in Wales.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Minor typo - what's a wwek?

    Fake news, I never make typos.

    Honest.
    So we blame autocorrect for ‘maybe’ appearing as one word not two?
    Yes.

    It is the bane of my existence.
    Do you feel in charge?
    Bane was a visionary.

    1) Wore a mask

    2) Locked down a city

    3) Cancelled sporting events

    4) Knew the root of the problem was a bat.
    The mask is not for you, it's to protect the people you care about.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Pulpstar said:

    Election Maps UK
    @ElectionMapsUK
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 43% (+2)
    LAB: 29% (-5)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDM: 8% (+2)
    RFM: 3% (=)

    Via @YouGov
    , 12-13 Apr.
    Changes w/ 7-8 Apr.

    Any chance of a thread on this Poll?
    If you think the Tories are 14 points ahead, you need your head examining.

    BUT if the outlier is 14 points head, the truth could easily be 11, less easily 8, and unlikely to be less than that.



  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited April 2021
    Awful, awful poll - and probably the worst result possible for Labour. Somehow doing worse than Corbyn in 2019. Which is why I am deeply sceptical.

    However, I think it's beyond doubt that the Tories are significantly ahead, vaccines are going well and the economy is reopening. They have not been "incompetent" for quite a long time, in fact I have forgotten when the last real incompetent moment has come out from them.

    And so far Labour, they need to dump Dodds immediately and replace her with Reeves. Starmer needs to continue reforming Labour for the better and into an opposition that the country can respect. That takes time - but he is doing that slowly.

    As I've said before, if his achievement is Kinnock-style/Smith-style preparation for a future win then so be it. That's sometimes the game you have to play.

    I stand by the idea Starmer was still the best candidate and nobody else would be doing better.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Morning all. On topic. I'd pass either way on those Biden bets. It's a medical and actuarial play and I'm not motivated to study that in the detail needed to work out where the value is. For now I stick to laying Trump and Trumpery. He's over. He might not realize it yet, ditto many who either love or fear him, but he is.

    On another matter, I've just taken a look at the guest list for the Duke's funeral and I'm pleased to see there’s a place for Prince Richard, the Duke of Gloucester. In all the hubbub around the Royals, especially in recent times, it’s easily forgotten that there are individuals like this, like Prince Richard the Duke of Gloucester, who just go calmly about their business, doing what they do, with no fuss, no ego, no special uniform, never troubling the tabloids or the rolling news. I’d actually never even heard of this chap, that’s how quietly effective he’s been in whatever role he has in the grand scheme of things.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612

    That YouGov poll also has the SNP polling 1% in the South of England outside of London.

    H/T - David Herdson.

    I think Scottish independence would poll very well in England if the comments I hear are representative.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,612
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    The porous borders are bloody ridiculous.

    If we're ok it'll be a matter of blind luck. If we're not, it'll be because of an obvious and repeated policy failing by the Government.

    In fairness, the vaccine rollout hasn’t been perfect but hasn’t been blind luck either. And if we’re OK it will be because the variants don’t materially undermine the effectiveness of the vaccines.

    But I agree, the government have been and still are making far too many avoidable errors. And that’s basically because they have shockingly poor judgement.
    I think that's a bit unfair. Although I have been tearing my hair out (it was a lot easier before I got it cut) for the best part of a year about the lack of security on our borders I do recognise that this is a complicated picture where different harms need to be balanced against each other on the basis of pretty inadequate information. I don't agree with some of their calls but I accept that other judgments are more than possible on the evidence available.

    To take an example the massive increase in test and trace capacity over the last year gives us the surge capacity to do door to door testing if required over extended areas. The world leading genomic analysis of cases means we are almost certainly better at finding variants than anyone else. These tools in our kit bag do have to be taken into account when assessing the risk.
    The cost in time and money of that surge test, track and trace must be considerable.

    Perhaps its another thing that has swollen to be too big to get rid of and the government are happy to provide it with new variants to work with.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021
    valleyboy said:

    DavidL said:

    Is this really the position labour find themselves in

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1382970427769810946?s=19

    Its really just as well that there are not postal votes being sent out for a series of important elections across the UK right now. That could have been potentially disastrous.
    And Boris is writing personal letters to Welsh voters, as Prime Minister, personally endorsing the Conservative candidate and highlighting the vaccine success and 22 years of labour failure
    But Boris Johnson trails Mark Drakeford in the leader ratings Wales.

    Those letters will be damaging to Tory prospects in Wales.

    Given how bad you say Mark Drakeford is surely it must worry you that Boris Johnson trails Drakeford in Wales?

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375110941994541056
    Feedback I'm getting back is that Drakeford is getting a decent reaction on the doorstep.
    The Tories are clearly worried about their man in Wales, Andrew RT Davies. If you think Drakeford is bad, Davies is 10x worse. Totally useless.
    Having said all that, it is a concern for me that if this poll is anywhere near right, Tories are going to do far better than they deserve in May in Wales.
    To be honest Labour have been in power in Wales for 22 years and poverty in the Valleys is a as bad as ever, the health and education system is a total failure, and covid has caused devastation to the tourist industry

    It should be noted that my granddaughter was the top student at her school in last year and she is expecting high A level passes this year

    However, because part of the area she lives in is deemed in poverty, and because her school is such a low achieving school, she already has no problems in gaining access to the University of her choice

    I agree with you about RT Davies but labour needs to understand it does not have a God given right to be in office in Wales
This discussion has been closed.