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More than 80 days into the job and Biden’s approval ratings stay very strong – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,168
edited April 2021 in General
imageMore than 80 days into the job and Biden’s approval ratings stay very strong – politicalbetting.com

The above chart from Nate Silver’s site show how remarkable strong Biden’s approval ratings have been since becoming President on January 20th. I’ve got a little bet on that he’ll still be in the 50-55% range on his 100 day in office on January 20th.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 28,392
    first by some freak of timing
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    One thing that Trump go right was vaccine ordering and production - at least in terms of actually getting stuff produced, in the US. Some of the contracts....

    The distribution was a mess.

    So all Biden had to do was to inject a small amount of competence and organisation into the distribution and the result is soaring vaccinations.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689
    edited April 2021
    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    For those doubting the value of a more cautious unlockdown, Montgomery County provides strong evidence in favour of going slow. The county is the most populous and probably one of the youngest counties in Maryland. Montgomery Co has chosen to unlockdown much more cautiously than the state, and has even had to be ordered by the Governor to speed up its process.

    It started the pandemic with the worst infection rate in the state but now has half the COVID case rate than the state as a whole - 11 vs 22/100k.

    https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/coronavirus/montgomery-countys-covid-19-case-rate-about-half-of-states/
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    Looks like by population.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    edited April 2021
    I hope it's safer in here, I think I might have put my foot in it earlier...
    :blush:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    The striking thing there is that it seems to be only in England that the workload of second doses has brought progress with new first doses almost to a halt?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    But he's not an optimist.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    MaxPB said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    But he's not an optimist.
    I agree
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    The striking thing there is that it seems to be only in England that the workload of second doses has brought progress with new first doses almost to a halt?
    Didn't Wales and Scotland both start ramping up second doses immediately after the first milestone (groups 1-4) was reached? Much more so than England.

    edit: my mistake, it was Wales only. Check out the chart here (Vaccination uptake, by report date): https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    Surely it is mostly a vaccine bounce?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    He doesn’t sound in thane.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    The replies to the tweet....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Foxy said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    Surely it is mostly a vaccine bounce?
    I think lots of Americans are still very happy about the idea of not having a complete arse in charge as well. Not waking up to some new Twitter meltdown or insult to one of their institutions or allies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    The striking thing there is that it seems to be only in England that the workload of second doses has brought progress with new first doses almost to a halt?
    Didn't Wales and Scotland both start ramping up second doses immediately after the first milestone (groups 1-4) was reached? Much more so than England.

    edit: my mistake, it was Wales only. Check out the chart here (Vaccination uptake, by report date): https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
    Where are Wales magicing up this extra supply?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Minority Report - I think I preferred it when you could see the tweets.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689
    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    oooooh....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    It’s early days. There will come a time when not being Trump and having his limitations isn’t enough.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Taz said:

    It’s early days. There will come a time when not being Trump and having his limitations isn’t enough.

    Depends if Trump is still his opponent.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1381208860267012099

    Was it an accident or an "accident"?
  • ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Minority Report - I think I preferred it when you could see the tweets.

    Majority report - it was no good being able to see tweets if you couldn’t load the threads as a result.

    It was a nice feature when it worked, but it wasn’t working.
    Oh has it been removed? I hadn't noticed, I have a custom Adblock rule to stop them loading - I guess I can remove it now then.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁮󠁩󠁲󠁿
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    I am not sure I can cope with the Scottish Play.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    vg

    thanks
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    The cross of St Patrick with the Red Hand in it was used until 1973, but it’s seen as quite sectarian I think.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Very good of you all to lay on these not-at-all 'duff puns...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,079
    Taz said:

    It’s early days. There will come a time when not being Trump and having his limitations isn’t enough.

    In politics, one has to look ahead. For example, if one's child is ever to become President of the USA, it needs to be born there, AIUI. In these uncertain days of pandemic, a pregnant woman would need to think carefully about leaving the US in case she couldn't get back in time for the birth.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    ydoethur said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    The cross of St Patrick with the Red Hand in it was used until 1973, but it’s seen as quite sectarian I think.
    St George, I think.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
    Can we just agree we’re done? ’Sinane to keep coming up with these obscure Macbeth puns.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MaxPB said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    But he's not an optimist.
    Possibly true.
    But at least there is a path.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    The cross of St Patrick with the Red Hand in it was used until 1973, but it’s seen as quite sectarian I think.
    St George, I think.
    Yes, you’re right, not St Patrick. Years since I bothered to look at it, had forgotten the shape.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
    Can we just agree we’re done? ’Sinane to keep coming up with these obscure Macbeth puns.
    I tend to keep my hands clean of these interminable pun posts.

    I let them ride, and once the hurlyburly’s done - as it were - I spot the opportunity to put in a serious post.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
    Can we just agree we’re done? ’Sinane to keep coming up with these obscure Macbeth puns.
    oh that's good.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    It’s early days. There will come a time when not being Trump and having his limitations isn’t enough.

    In politics, one has to look ahead. For example, if one's child is ever to become President of the USA, it needs to be born there, AIUI. In these uncertain days of pandemic, a pregnant woman would need to think carefully about leaving the US in case she couldn't get back in time for the birth.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
    It doesn’t necessarily have to be born there, it just has to be a ‘natural born citizen.’ McCain wasn’t born in America, for example.

    What might have complicated matters in this case is of course if born in Britain the child would automatically be entitled to British citizenship through Harry.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821
    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    Kier started out looking competent by looking dull. If you don't look too closely dullness looks a lot like competence. But inconsistency ('Look, I'm kneeling in support of BLM!' 'I regret kneeling in support of BLM' 'I regret saying I regretted kneeling in support of BLM') can look a lot like incompetence.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    The last I heard a few months ago was boris talking about unleashing “the magic of averages” which IIrc refers to Dilnot

    He’s got no new ideas.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    But he's not an optimist.
    Possibly true.
    But at least there is a path.
    Difficult to be more of an optimist than Boris though. I think he'll also struggle to seem genuine because the next few years worth of arguments will be because/despite brexit and the whole country knows on which side of the argument he is wrt brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    In more important news, Gloucestershire more buggered than a reluctant Turkish conscript.

    Why couldn’t Ben Foakes have saved his run making for England?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    The cross of St Patrick with the Red Hand in it was used until 1973, but it’s seen as quite sectarian I think.
    St George, I think.
    The Northern Ireland flag is (was) a banner of the arms granted to the Government of Northern Ireland, which were themselves a variant of the traditional arms of Ulster. The differences are that NI has a white field, Ulster yellow, the Red hand is on a conventional inescutcheon (shield) for Ulster, a six-pointed star for NI, and the NI arms and flag include a royal crown which Ulster's don't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited April 2021

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    If the money collected was ringfenced and invested rather than being spunked away on other things, I wouldn't mind paying more tax as a young person in order to fund social care in later life.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021
    Lingard taking Leicester apart

    What a different player to his Man Utd days
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    If the money collected was ringfenced and invested rather than being spunked away on other things, I wouldn't mind paying more tax as a young person in order to fund social care in later life.
    So you're in favour of something like an investment fund for social care, which we all pay into during our working lives and which pays for care in our later years.

    Great, I like that idea too - but what do we do about everyone too old to join such a scheme now, who will need care in the next few decades? That's the more immediate problem that needs to be resolved.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,856
    A competent administration or one that doesn't bark at the moon? Simply the latter is a relief.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    So with Starmer 14 points ahead of Johnson in Wales and Drakeford playing a blinder over covid the big question is why Labour and the Tories are so close in the Welsh Assembly polling?

    Is it time to consider the Andrew RT Davies factor?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Lingard taking Leicester apart

    What a different player to his Man Utd days

    I have always rated him. He had a half dozen games on loan at Leicester too, a decade ago. Always positive on the ball, seeking to go forward.

    Moyes seems to have allowed him the space to play in.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    If the money collected was ringfenced and invested rather than being spunked away on other things, I wouldn't mind paying more tax as a young person in order to fund social care in later life.
    Which is a good idea, but doesn't solve today's issue. It's time to tax oldies properly, make them pay NI and more tax on pension income as well as getting rid of the triple lock. That would probably just about cover the cost of social care with the money not coming from working age people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    The attitude of Western governments to quarantine of arrivals, has been the most baffling and bewildering aspect of the whole pandemic.

    There needed to have been extensive testing and quarantine of any and all travellers from last March.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    So with Starmer 14 points ahead of Johnson in Wales and Drakeford playing a blinder over covid the big question is why Labour and the Tories are so close in the Welsh Assembly polling?

    Is it time to consider the Andrew RT Davies factor?
    No, it’s time to consider the ‘Labour have been in power for 22 years and don’t care about anywhere outside the Valleys’ factor.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited April 2021
    Ski resorts again...

    Whistler, in British Columbia, has nearly 200 of 877 confirmed cases in the province but officials have only a murky idea of how widely variant has spread

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/canada-ski-resort-p1-covid-variant-whistler

    Places to avoid re COVID, hospitals, meat packing factories, ski resorts and anywhere a professional footballer has been over the past few hours (although the last one might no longer be applicable as they all seem to have had COVID now).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    I see Chile covid cases are on the rise again.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    Is it because it's fuller of old crusties? Save young BigG of course!
  • Foxy said:

    Lingard taking Leicester apart

    What a different player to his Man Utd days

    I have always rated him. He had a half dozen games on loan at Leicester too, a decade ago. Always positive on the ball, seeking to go forward.

    Moyes seems to have allowed him the space to play in.

    Commentators are saying teams do not pack their defences as they do against Man Utd thereby providing Lingard with more space

    And Leicester now 3 down
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    586,339 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 74,055 1st doses / 437,442 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 14,054 / 17,176
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 16,436 / 15,699
    NI 6,564 / 4,913

    Nice touch.

    Which order are the flags, and surely NI has a flag?
    I don't think NI has an official flag. Regardless, there's no Emoji for it.
    The cross of St Patrick with the Red Hand in it was used until 1973, but it’s seen as quite sectarian I think.
    St George, I think.
    Yes, you’re right, not St Patrick. Years since I bothered to look at it, had forgotten the shape.
    Same shape... just rotated...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    So with Starmer 14 points ahead of Johnson in Wales and Drakeford playing a blinder over covid the big question is why Labour and the Tories are so close in the Welsh Assembly polling?

    Is it time to consider the Andrew RT Davies factor?
    No, it’s time to consider the ‘Labour have been in power for 22 years and don’t care about anywhere outside the Valleys’ factor.
    Hence the current state of the Westminster map, where Labour has one seat left outside of its Southern strongholds: Alyn & Deeside, not at all coincidentally the one nearest Liverpool, held by a majority of about two hundred votes.

    Not that this makes a huge amount of difference given the Assembly arithmetic. There'll be Labour-led administration after the next election, just like there has been after all the previous ones.
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    If the money collected was ringfenced and invested rather than being spunked away on other things, I wouldn't mind paying more tax as a young person in order to fund social care in later life.
    Which is a good idea, but doesn't solve today's issue. It's time to tax oldies properly, make them pay NI and more tax on pension income as well as getting rid of the triple lock. That would probably just about cover the cost of social care with the money not coming from working age people.
    Time for our regular reminder that, accounting both for demography and the propensity of different age groups to turn out and vote, the over 65s are a third of the electorate and the over 55s a whole half of it, and those proportions are increasing by the year.

    The young will therefore be milked for more and more cash, unless or until the whole system collapses under the weight of the demands of the old. It's inevitable.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2021
    Biden has a golden opportunity coming out of the pandemic: the efficiency of the vaccination effort has been something to behold. People (certainly myself and my wife and others we've talked to) have a sense that we've learnt that America still can get stuff done, if it just has the will to do so. If Biden's smart, he'll push the Infrastructure Bill as a continuation of that spirit, and the GQP will get painted as unpatriotic and not believing in America if it opposes it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,990
    rpjs said:

    Biden has a golden opportunity coming out of the pandemic: the efficiency of the vaccination effort has been something to behold. People (certainly myself and my wife and others we've talked to) have a sense that we've learnt that America still can get stuff done, if it just has the will to do so. If Biden's smart, he'll push the Infrastructure Bill as a continuation of that spirit, and the GQP will get painted as unpatriotic and not believing in America if it opposes it.

    GQP=Grand QAnon Party?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    ydoethur said:

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    So with Starmer 14 points ahead of Johnson in Wales and Drakeford playing a blinder over covid the big question is why Labour and the Tories are so close in the Welsh Assembly polling?

    Is it time to consider the Andrew RT Davies factor?
    No, it’s time to consider the ‘Labour have been in power for 22 years and don’t care about anywhere outside the Valleys’ factor.
    Hence the current state of the Westminster map, where Labour has one seat left outside of its Southern strongholds: Alyn & Deeside, not at all coincidentally the one nearest Liverpool, held by a majority of about two hundred votes.

    Not that this makes a huge amount of difference given the Assembly arithmetic. There'll be Labour-led administration after the next election, just like there has been after all the previous ones.
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    If the money collected was ringfenced and invested rather than being spunked away on other things, I wouldn't mind paying more tax as a young person in order to fund social care in later life.
    Which is a good idea, but doesn't solve today's issue. It's time to tax oldies properly, make them pay NI and more tax on pension income as well as getting rid of the triple lock. That would probably just about cover the cost of social care with the money not coming from working age people.
    Time for our regular reminder that, accounting both for demography and the propensity of different age groups to turn out and vote, the over 65s are a third of the electorate and the over 55s a whole half of it, and those proportions are increasing by the year.

    The young will therefore be milked for more and more cash, unless or until the whole system collapses under the weight of the demands of the old. It's inevitable.
    Well this young person will have to start thinking about tax shelters if the old continue to try and milk us for everything we've got. I've never actively done any tax avoidance (other than ISAs) but I'm becoming fed up of being seen as a piggy bank by the most selfish generation in nation. None of the self sacrifice of their parents who died fighting in a war and happy to leach off the younger generation by buying up all the property and then blocking new homes from being built.
  • felix said:

    Wales is well ahead on people fully vaccinated.

    image

    Is it because it's fuller of old crusties? Save young BigG of course!
    I am an old crusty to be fair but it is because we have suffered Labour in power ever since devolution with terrible NHS issues, which I have been on the receiving end personally, and poor education outcomes

    Furthermore, poverty in the Valleys and other parts is as bad as ever

    The Conservatives have been doing well, especially in North Wales, and recent polls and local results indicate a failing labour administration

    Andrew RT Davies is hopeless but it would be unexpected if the conservatives do not improve their representation in the Senedd in May
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,263
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    World Health Organisation is rapidly becoming one of those triplets - like the Holy Roman Empire - that is the opposite of what it purports to be.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689
    "@AP
    In a rare admission of the weakness of Chinese coronavirus vaccines, the country’s top disease control official says their effectiveness is low and the government is considering mixing them to give them a boost."

    https://twitter.com/AP/status/1381125120236871681
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
    Can we just agree we’re done? ’Sinane to keep coming up with these obscure Macbeth puns.
    We could try to make duff puns instead.

    Oh, I already did.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
  • ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
    You do know it is Grant Shapps as Transport Secretary who regulates these issues

    Nothing to do with Priti Patel
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
    The reason for not closing the border is immigration. The belief is hardwired into the system that immigration is vital to the operation of the economy and society and it must not be stopped.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Turns out the US public are strongly in favour of socialism.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    That sounds like a very Lib Dem approach, Mr Sandpit. The trouble is that the Conservatives take all the credit for the good bits, and blame you for all the unpopular bits. Even though the unpopular bits were their own proposals, and the good bits were what they fought against tooth and nail.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,821

    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
    The reason for not closing the border is immigration. The belief is hardwired into the system that immigration is vital to the operation of the economy and society and it must not be stopped.
    Yes, and it's actually slightly jarring seeing the nominally left-wing criticising Priti Patel for not being tough enough on immigration.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    Does it basically chime with that article I linked to a few days ago?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    But he's not an optimist.
    Possibly true.
    But at least there is a path.
    Difficult to be more of an optimist than Boris though. I think he'll also struggle to seem genuine because the next few years worth of arguments will be because/despite brexit and the whole country knows on which side of the argument he is wrt brexit.
    Definitions.... A pessimist is somebody who thinks that things cannot get worse.

    An optimist is a person who knows that they can.

    Watch this space.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Endillion said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He doesn’t sound in thane.
    Core, Door.
    I think we’re dun, can we move on?
    Let me send my dog out, he's called Spot.
    That puzzled me for a moment, but I must admit it’s rather ingenious.

    Witches I suppose all you can ask for.
    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.
    Can we just agree we’re done? ’Sinane to keep coming up with these obscure Macbeth puns.
    We could try to make duff puns instead.

    Oh, I already did.
    I wouldn’t get involved. Two people already tried to out pun me and I just Birnam.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Cookie said:

    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
    The reason for not closing the border is immigration. The belief is hardwired into the system that immigration is vital to the operation of the economy and society and it must not be stopped.
    Yes, and it's actually slightly jarring seeing the nominally left-wing criticising Priti Patel for not being tough enough on immigration.
    Immigration and quarantine are not mutually exclusive though.

    The important thing is that we don't allow potentially infectious people to enter the country, it really shouldn't be rocket science!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000

    Thanks, i find it hard work to stay in a bubble nowadays, especially when cooking.

    Too much trouble
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    That sounds like a very Lib Dem approach, Mr Sandpit. The trouble is that the Conservatives take all the credit for the good bits, and blame you for all the unpopular bits. Even though the unpopular bits were their own proposals, and the good bits were what they fought against tooth and nail.
    The Lib Dems should have been proud of their achievements in coalition, rather than ashamed by them.
  • tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    Her mistake was failing to appreciate the lack of knowledge of the current system unless you directly encounter it. By drawing up a new system and making people aware that under the new system their glorious inheritance was not going to the children, people were appalled. Whether it was better or worse than the existing system wasnt important because by the time you find out about the new system granny is half way to the home and there's little else you can do about it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    What?

    Making people pay for their own care is screwing them?

    The problem is a lot of tories aren’t actually very conservative. They want free care and for other people to pay for it. They’re the ones doing the screwing.
    That’s the problem with social care, and why the clown’s self-proclaimed oven ready solution has never seen the light of day (along with its likely non-existence). There is no viable solution that doesn’t involve those that can afford it shouldering a significant proportion of the cost. But no such solution is politically sellable without cross-party support.
    I agree. xparty support is necessary for any big change. I would be in favour of taking all social care into the NHS. It would mean charging more NI, for all ages. As a pensioner myself I wouldn't be averse to contributing NI on any earnings above state pension, eg my teacher pension.
    The issue with the NHS/NI approach, is that it requires a tax increase on the current working population - young people - to pay for the care of people not subject to such taxes during their own working life - old people. It's therefore wildly unpopular with young people.

    Pensioners not paying NI on high incomes is an anomaly that needs to be scrapped.

    We are in agreement that a cross-party Royal Commission is needed though, the issue needs to be carefully thought through in a collaborative rather than adversarial way.
    That sounds like a very Lib Dem approach, Mr Sandpit. The trouble is that the Conservatives take all the credit for the good bits, and blame you for all the unpopular bits. Even though the unpopular bits were their own proposals, and the good bits were what they fought against tooth and nail.
    Are you calling the Conservatives human?

    That’s quite a breakthrough for you!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,351
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    ClippP said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. There's a must-read article by Dominic Lawson in today's Sunday Times, about how the decision not to close the borders was based on advice from the WHO that was almost entirely political and not based on medical evidence.

    So why did it take us nearly 12 months?
    Are our borders closed now? Perhaps in theory in the case of people from certain countries. But I read the other day that there are 150,000 people who have recently arrived in this country and are supposed to be in quarentine, but whose whereabouts are entirely unknown to the government.

    When are they going to sack that dreadful Patel woman?
    The reason for not closing the border is immigration. The belief is hardwired into the system that immigration is vital to the operation of the economy and society and it must not be stopped.
    Yes, and it's actually slightly jarring seeing the nominally left-wing criticising Priti Patel for not being tough enough on immigration.
    Immigration and quarantine are not mutually exclusive though.

    The important thing is that we don't allow potentially infectious people to enter the country, it really shouldn't be rocket science!
    You probably aren't aware of how immigration works in th is country. 95% of it isn't people sitting patiently in a row, with their papers all nicely filled in.

    To actually quarantine all the immigrants coming in, you'd need to escort everyone from the planes, buses and ferries, on entry to secure facilities. AKA detention camps. For a 2 week stay. The actual UK residents could be filtered out after a check of their documents.

    I'm not so sure that there would be much cheering on the left for that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,392

    tlg86 said:

    Good news for Keir.
    Biden shows what is possible with a bit of optimism.

    You cannot be serious. KS can't do optimism. He is just plain dull. He knows his limits.
    Agreed. Starmer is counting on competence being the key battle ground (not necessarily a bad tactic). I do think part of Corbyn's "success" in 2017 was that they were quite positive and set the running in terms of what they'd do. Sure, the Tory manifesto helped them, but the Labour campaign was very positive.
    And May's was the worst ever, promising to screw every Tory the Country.. and anyone who had a bit of dosh saved up.
    Her mistake was failing to appreciate the lack of knowledge of the current system unless you directly encounter it. By drawing up a new system and making people aware that under the new system their glorious inheritance was not going to the children, people were appalled. Whether it was better or worse than the existing system wasnt important because by the time you find out about the new system granny is half way to the home and there's little else you can do about it.
    May's issue was (as you say) that she announced it without spending a year before hand emphasising how unfair the current system is.

    Care does need to be sorted out but there are zero votes to be gained from doing so (and a lot to be lost) so until someone finds a means of removing the politics from it nothing is going to be done.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689
    Italian nurses are protesting against mandatory vaccinations:

    https://tg24.sky.it/roma/2021/04/11/roma-manifestazione-contro-obbligo-vaccino-video
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,689
    1,730 new cases and 7 deaths.

    image
This discussion has been closed.