If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a massive, crushing win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a big win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If the Nationalists win a majority then Boris can continue to press home that failing to vote Tory at the 2024 UK general election means a minority Labour government with Starmer propped up by the SNP and a divisive indyref2 that Boris would keep refusing.
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Point of order. With his arse, won’t he require two seats?
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Yes, I'd rather like to see that
He would be so offended and angry he would goad Sturgeon even more
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Vastly more funny is if Alba get one MSP and it is not Salmond.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Vastly more funny is if Alba get one MSP and it is not Salmond.
This. Not sure what would happen - I would bet on Alba and Salmond parting ways not long after.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
If the Holyrood election proves a total scrub for the dinosaurs (not impossible imo), perhaps a reality show can be made with them all living in a house; Salmond, Sheridan, Craig Murray, Sillars, Galloway et al, Rula Lenska coming in occasionally to feed them. George could give them tips on avoiding televised behaviour that may prevent anyone taking them seriously ever again.
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
Which suits the Conservatives down to the ground, bearing in mind the three possible outcomes of Indyref2:
(a) Yes wins, Boris Johnson then goes down in history as the Prime Minister who lost the Union and probably has to resign (b) No wins, Scotland's nationalist voters get even more pissed off and the SNP continues to win Scottish elections ad infinitum - in which case, what was the point? (b) No wins, the wind goes right out of the SNP's sails, and Scottish voters decide to vote for parties that might actually sit in a UK Government. Result: the bulk of them go back to Labour, and it becomes substantially easier for Labour to win a General Election
The incentive for the current Government to concede a referendum, regardless of how large a majority can be found for it at Holyrood, is therefore exactly nil.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Only with a 2/3 UN General Assembly vote if it is a matter that threatens global peace and security
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a big win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If the Nationalists win a majority then Boris can continue to press home that failing to vote Tory at the 2024 UK general election means a minority Labour government with Starmer propped up by the SNP and a divisive indyref2 that Boris would keep refusing.
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
Not propped up. Supported by.
Will be doing this correction until you drop it. Let's see who blinks first.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
How?
A Permanent member can be kicked out of the UN, like China [Taiwan as permanent member] was. But short of that how do they override a veto?
Which suits the Conservatives down to the ground, bearing in mind the three possible outcomes of Indyref2:
(a) Yes wins, Boris Johnson then goes down in history as the Prime Minister who lost the Union and probably has to resign (b) No wins, Scotland's nationalist voters get even more pissed off and the SNP continues to win Scottish elections ad infinitum - in which case, what was the point? (b) No wins, the wind goes right out of the SNP's sails, and Scottish voters decide to vote for parties that might actually sit in a UK Government. Result: the bulk of them go back to Labour, and it becomes substantially easier for Labour to win a General Election
The incentive for the current Government to concede a referendum, regardless of how large a majority can be found for it at Holyrood, is therefore exactly nil.
Indeed. I don't agree morally with the position of denying one, especially when(if) Sindy parties win in May, but I understand why the government, perceiving the options, would choose that.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Only with a 2/3 UN General Assembly vote if it is a matter that threatens global peace and security
Well they can cite your posts about sending the armed forces to quell Scottish nationalism as proof that you and the UK government are threatening peace and security.
Plenty of military conflicts stated off small anded up pretty big.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
How?
A Permanent member can be kicked out of the UN, like China [Taiwan as permanent member] was. But short of that how do they override a veto?
You call a vote of the 190 odd member countries, if two thirds or more vote to override the veto then the veto is overridden.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Only with a 2/3 UN General Assembly vote if it is a matter that threatens global peace and security
Well they can cite your posts about sending the armed forces to quell Scottish nationalism as proof that you and the UK government are threatening peace and security.
Plenty of military conflicts stated off small anded up pretty big.
That would only be in response to rioting and civil disorder by Salmondite hardliners.
It would need a 2/3 majority which is unlikely anyway and even if it was what would they do? Send in a UN peacekeeping force to Glasgow? As that worked so well in Bosnia and Rwanda
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
If the Holyrood election proves a total scrub for the dinosaurs (not impossible imo), perhaps a reality show can be made with them all living in a house; Salmond, Sheridan, Craig Murray, Galloway et al, Rula Lenska coming in occasionally to feed them. George could give them tips on avoiding televised behaviour that may prevent anyone taking them seriously ever again.
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
I thought SNP and RT loved each other? Maybe not now Salmond has revealed true colours and has now surpassed Boris Johnson as the most ridiculous fat middle aged egotist in the British Isles?
I suspect Putin still loves the Scottish Nasty Party though, so I am sure independence will still get plenty of airtime from Vlad's mouthpiece. Funny how despots and fascists tend to have a mutual attraction with the Scottish nationalist cause. Birds of a feather and all that I guess.
If the Holyrood election proves a total scrub for the dinosaurs (not impossible imo), perhaps a reality show can be made with them all living in a house; Salmond, Sheridan, Craig Murray, Sillars, Galloway et al, Rula Lenska coming in occasionally to feed them. George could give them tips on avoiding televised behaviour that may prevent anyone taking them seriously ever again.
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
How?
A Permanent member can be kicked out of the UN, like China [Taiwan as permanent member] was. But short of that how do they override a veto?
You call a vote of the 190 odd member countries, if two thirds or more vote to override the veto then the veto is overridden.
And the USA withdraws from the UN. Alongside possibly China (though it might want what remains as a fig leaf) and Russia.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a big win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If the Nationalists win a majority then Boris can continue to press home that failing to vote Tory at the 2024 UK general election means a minority Labour government with Starmer propped up by the SNP and a divisive indyref2 that Boris would keep refusing.
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
Not propped up. Supported by.
Will be doing this correction until you drop it. Let's see who blinks first.
Neither is correct. 'Controlled by' is the term that would describe the reality of the situation. And just like in 2015, the voters will notice that reality too.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
The 2/3 thing came about as an assertion around Suez I think. He’s right that it’s there, but the US would never tolerate the precedent.
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a big win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If the Nationalists win a majority then Boris can continue to press home that failing to vote Tory at the 2024 UK general election means a minority Labour government with Starmer propped up by the SNP and a divisive indyref2 that Boris would keep refusing.
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
Not propped up. Supported by.
Will be doing this correction until you drop it. Let's see who blinks first.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
Yes, really. This article from 2003 is an explainer of sorts.
It was even used against us once.
There’s an esoteric maneuver to get around a threatened veto: invoking the obscure U.N. Resolution 377, also known as the “Uniting for Peace” Resolution. In early 1950, the United States pushed through the resolution as a means of circumventing possible Soviet vetoes. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly. This procedure has been used 10 times so far, most notably in 1956 to help resolve the Suez Canal crisis. Britain and France, which were occupying parts of the canal at the time, vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for their withdrawal. The United States called for an emergency “Uniting for Peace” session of the General Assembly, which passed a withdrawal resolution. (A simple majority vote is required.) Britain and France pulled out shortly after.
Yet these non-Security Council resolutions are more symbolic pressure tactics than anything else. The council still maintains responsibility for enforcement, so naysayers among the permanent members can likely prevent the actual dispatching of troops. Nor, as history has shown, will all nations buckle like Britain and France did in 1956. In 1980, the General Assembly convened in a “Uniting for Peace” session and passed a resolution demanding the Soviet Union’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Soviets merely shrugged.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
How?
A Permanent member can be kicked out of the UN, like China [Taiwan as permanent member] was. But short of that how do they override a veto?
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
Yes, really. This article from 2003 is an explainer of sorts.
It was even used against us once.
There’s an esoteric maneuver to get around a threatened veto: invoking the obscure U.N. Resolution 377, also known as the “Uniting for Peace” Resolution. In early 1950, the United States pushed through the resolution as a means of circumventing possible Soviet vetoes. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly. This procedure has been used 10 times so far, most notably in 1956 to help resolve the Suez Canal crisis. Britain and France, which were occupying parts of the canal at the time, vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for their withdrawal. The United States called for an emergency “Uniting for Peace” session of the General Assembly, which passed a withdrawal resolution. (A simple majority vote is required.) Britain and France pulled out shortly after.
Yet these non-Security Council resolutions are more symbolic pressure tactics than anything else. The council still maintains responsibility for enforcement, so naysayers among the permanent members can likely prevent the actual dispatching of troops. Nor, as history has shown, will all nations buckle like Britain and France did in 1956. In 1980, the General Assembly convened in a “Uniting for Peace” session and passed a resolution demanding the Soviet Union’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Soviets merely shrugged.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
Yes, really. This article from 2003 is an explainer of sorts.
It was even used against us once.
There’s an esoteric maneuver to get around a threatened veto: invoking the obscure U.N. Resolution 377, also known as the “Uniting for Peace” Resolution. In early 1950, the United States pushed through the resolution as a means of circumventing possible Soviet vetoes. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly. This procedure has been used 10 times so far, most notably in 1956 to help resolve the Suez Canal crisis. Britain and France, which were occupying parts of the canal at the time, vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for their withdrawal. The United States called for an emergency “Uniting for Peace” session of the General Assembly, which passed a withdrawal resolution. (A simple majority vote is required.) Britain and France pulled out shortly after.
Yet these non-Security Council resolutions are more symbolic pressure tactics than anything else. The council still maintains responsibility for enforcement, so naysayers among the permanent members can likely prevent the actual dispatching of troops. Nor, as history has shown, will all nations buckle like Britain and France did in 1956. In 1980, the General Assembly convened in a “Uniting for Peace” session and passed a resolution demanding the Soviet Union’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Soviets merely shrugged.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
If the Holyrood election proves a total scrub for the dinosaurs (not impossible imo), perhaps a reality show can be made with them all living in a house; Salmond, Sheridan, Craig Murray, Sillars, Galloway et al, Rula Lenska coming in occasionally to feed them. George could give them tips on avoiding televised behaviour that may prevent anyone taking them seriously ever again.
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
☺ - Voice over Andrew Neil. Total winner.
Gravelly burr: And now twa new mystery hoose guests are in the building!
Is it possible Salmond won't get a seat? The Scottish list system is so opaque I don't know
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
The funniest outcome, though hardly my preferred one (a vanishingly unlikely unionist majority), is that Salmond, and only Salmond, gets a seat for Alba.
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
Point of order. With his arse, won’t he require two seats?
I'd say that any space big enough for his ego will accommodate his arse quite comfortably.
France is going to be in lockdown for some time if they want to slow COVID down.
R=1.2 ish.
As long as the six months we will have been in by June?
Some of us have been in lockdown since October.
I know people in the North East and Leicestershire have been in lockdown for even longer than that.
Indeed. We've been incarcerated since December 20th but have got off relatively lightly compared to many others.
Assuming it goes ahead as planned, I'm counting May 17th as the end of lockdown, even if the restrictions won't all be gone and I'm pessimistic about exactly how many months (or years) we may end up being lumbered with some of them. Twenty-one weeks, much of them stretching through what is, after all, the most depressing time of the year even under normal circumstances. I doubt that countries in Europe which have fallen back into lockdown more recently will have to put up with anything as bad as that.
If the Holyrood election proves a total scrub for the dinosaurs (not impossible imo), perhaps a reality show can be made with them all living in a house; Salmond, Sheridan, Craig Murray, Sillars, Galloway et al, Rula Lenska coming in occasionally to feed them. George could give them tips on avoiding televised behaviour that may prevent anyone taking them seriously ever again.
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
☺ - Voice over Andrew Neil. Total winner.
Gravelly burr: And now twa new mystery hoose guests are in the building!
One of the tropes the Nats trot out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Even as an extremely online Scot Nat Twitter user I have never seen that said by anyone.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Both figures are quoted at the top of the Deaths page. As of today, 126,980 under the positive test metric, and 149,968 under the death certificate metric.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Both figures are quoted at the top of the Deaths page. As of today, 126,980 under the positive test metric, and 149,968 under the death certificate metric.
If Salmond fails to win a seat so also disappears any pressure Sturgeon might feel to declare UDI if the SNP win a majority and hold a referendum and Boris as is likely ignores the result.
Out of interest, is there any credible outcome of the Holyrood elections that isn't a big win for the Conservatives/Union in your opinion?
If the Nationalists win a majority then Boris can continue to press home that failing to vote Tory at the 2024 UK general election means a minority Labour government with Starmer propped up by the SNP and a divisive indyref2 that Boris would keep refusing.
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
Not propped up. Supported by.
Will be doing this correction until you drop it. Let's see who blinks first.
France is going to be in lockdown for some time if they want to slow COVID down.
R=1.2 ish.
They seem to have lost the ability to report on cases in the last 2 days. No updates since the lull in Easter reporting numbers. Maybe they are using a really old version of Excel and have gone over the 64K row limit.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Both figures are quoted at the top of the Deaths page. As of today, 126,980 under the positive test metric, and 149,968 under the death certificate metric.
Both stats include many deaths with comorbidities though don't they? What of excess deaths?
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
IIRC the government publicised the Excess Deaths number quite early on in the epidemic as one of the better ways to measure what was happening.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Both figures are quoted at the top of the Deaths page. As of today, 126,980 under the positive test metric, and 149,968 under the death certificate metric.
Poor Brom..
Why poor? Clearly it's a rarely used figure that is used by a small minority who get their kicks from a high UK death rate.
Someone still got the strops after the Liverpool result lol.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
One of the things that British officialdom can't reasonably be accused of, it would seem, is producing wildly inaccurate figures, whether by accident or design.
Compare, if you will, to Russia, where the official Covid death toll is about 100k but the excess death count for the pandemic period is closer to half-a-million (which, on a per capita basis, would be about twice as bad as the United States.)
It's why you've also heard more than once at the UK Government pressers that, in the long run, the best relative international measure of deaths in the pandemic is liable to come from the excess death statistics. They're the numbers least likely to be corrupted.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Both figures are quoted at the top of the Deaths page. As of today, 126,980 under the positive test metric, and 149,968 under the death certificate metric.
Poor Brom..
Why poor? Clearly it's a rarely used figure that is used by a small minority who get their kicks from a high UK death rate.
Someone still got the strops after the Liverpool result lol.
Poor because you wrote this.
where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
The reality is when you were spouting your rubbish theories, it was in fact the government's own figures which they publish and highlight every day.
One of the tropes the Nats trott out is that the UN will force the UK government to grant another Indyref, I keep on asking two questions which never get answered
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
Plus the UK has a permanent seat on the UK security council and a veto on any UN action, the UN cannot do anything if the US, UK, France, Russia and China do not support it
Actually the UN can override a veto deployed by a permanent member of the security council.
Really? Unless matters have changed I think that is pretty difficult if not impossible. The "UN" moved against North Korea in the Korean war because Russia was boycotting UN at the time over it's refusal to recognise Maoist China, but I am not aware of any time when a Permanent Member veto has actually been outflanked.
Yes, really. This article from 2003 is an explainer of sorts.
It was even used against us once.
There’s an esoteric maneuver to get around a threatened veto: invoking the obscure U.N. Resolution 377, also known as the “Uniting for Peace” Resolution. In early 1950, the United States pushed through the resolution as a means of circumventing possible Soviet vetoes. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly. This procedure has been used 10 times so far, most notably in 1956 to help resolve the Suez Canal crisis. Britain and France, which were occupying parts of the canal at the time, vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for their withdrawal. The United States called for an emergency “Uniting for Peace” session of the General Assembly, which passed a withdrawal resolution. (A simple majority vote is required.) Britain and France pulled out shortly after.
Yet these non-Security Council resolutions are more symbolic pressure tactics than anything else. The council still maintains responsibility for enforcement, so naysayers among the permanent members can likely prevent the actual dispatching of troops. Nor, as history has shown, will all nations buckle like Britain and France did in 1956. In 1980, the General Assembly convened in a “Uniting for Peace” session and passed a resolution demanding the Soviet Union’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Soviets merely shrugged.
I love educating PBers, especially when it comes to history.
So even if the UN GA voted against the UK veto, Boris' UK could veto the deployment of UN troops to Scotland rendering it redundant
Yes, sole authority under the UN Charter for the despatch of troops lies in Chapter VII, which is the purvey of the Security Council alone, even if UNSCR377 allows UNGA to make "appropriate recommendations to Members for collective measures".
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
IIRC the government publicised the Excess Deaths number quite early on in the epidemic as one of the better ways to measure what was happening.
Yup, the ONS have shown during the pandemic why they are the Gold Standard.
I have a few foreign friends and colleagues and they marvel at the concept that the ONS and statistics authority have the power, which they often use, to publicly criticise and reprimand ministers, including the PM, for using misleading stats.
It would be an alien concept in their home countries.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
One of the things that British officialdom can't reasonably be accused of, it would seem, is producing wildly inaccurate figures, whether by accident or design.
Compare, if you will, to Russia, where the official Covid death toll is about 100k but the excess death count for the pandemic period is closer to half-a-million (which, on a per capita basis, would be about twice as bad as the United States.)
It's why you've also heard more than once at the UK Government pressers that, in the long run, the best relative international measure of deaths in the pandemic is liable to come from the excess death statistics. They're the numbers least likely to be corrupted.
One thing I've never understood while encountering the Scott P style "Bozo is a loser, the UK is awful" parts of the internet is where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
Both figures are from the government stats.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
It seems that the 150k is very rarely used by any politicians, scientists or journalists across the globe. I haven't seen it used by the Beeb for example on the 10 o clock news.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
Boris Johnson recently cited the higher figures in a press conference, as did the CMO, JVT in other press conferences.
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
How often is often? Rarely I'd say compared to the 126k. Reuters, worldometers, our world in data, BBC use the lower figure. Boris, JVT, Whitty consistantly refer to the 28 days figure in the pressers. And if so it makes you wonder why the same folk using "150,000k dead" for their arguments don't use the higher figure when referring to other nations.
Though Jim Sillars is the only prominent proponent I know of outside the EU/outside the UK, which IMO is the only intellectually coherent form of Sindy.
Comments
If Unionists win a majority then that of course removes the chance of Sturgeon even trying for an indyref2 anyway
The humiliation of THAT would be profound, for him
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
Perched between unionists who hate him, and the SNP who will despise him for being a splitter, for 4 years. Without any backup.
He would be so offended and angry he would goad Sturgeon even more
https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1380147757013422088?s=20
1) Why would the UN get involved and what powers and enforcement action does it have?
and
2) So why hasn't the UN enforced this principle for Catalonia?
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19039315.snp-can-use-principle-self-determination-override-indyref2-veto/
and they've looked at using the The International Court of Justice as well.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-could-use-international-law-push-indyref2-says-former-un-adviser-3112114
Sure to be a massive bidding war between RT and GB News for the rights.
(a) Yes wins, Boris Johnson then goes down in history as the Prime Minister who lost the Union and probably has to resign
(b) No wins, Scotland's nationalist voters get even more pissed off and the SNP continues to win Scottish elections ad infinitum - in which case, what was the point?
(b) No wins, the wind goes right out of the SNP's sails, and Scottish voters decide to vote for parties that might actually sit in a UK Government. Result: the bulk of them go back to Labour, and it becomes substantially easier for Labour to win a General Election
The incentive for the current Government to concede a referendum, regardless of how large a majority can be found for it at Holyrood, is therefore exactly nil.
https://twitter.com/Lairdscott01/status/1354098345732689938
https://twitter.com/SaorAlba59/status/1354053645017501697
R=1.2 ish.
Will be doing this correction until you drop it. Let's see who blinks first.
A Permanent member can be kicked out of the UN, like China [Taiwan as permanent member] was. But short of that how do they override a veto?
Plenty of military conflicts stated off small anded up pretty big.
Jeez. That's terrible.
It would need a 2/3 majority which is unlikely anyway and even if it was what would they do? Send in a UN peacekeeping force to Glasgow? As that worked so well in Bosnia and Rwanda
In general avoiding anyone with an Alba logo in their profile is a pretty solid move.
I suspect Putin still loves the Scottish Nasty Party though, so I am sure independence will still get plenty of airtime from Vlad's mouthpiece. Funny how despots and fascists tend to have a mutual attraction with the Scottish nationalist cause. Birds of a feather and all that I guess.
I know people in the North East and Leicestershire have been in lockdown for even longer than that.
a lawyer told me I have a case
good luck with that
It was even used against us once.
There’s an esoteric maneuver to get around a threatened veto: invoking the obscure U.N. Resolution 377, also known as the “Uniting for Peace” Resolution. In early 1950, the United States pushed through the resolution as a means of circumventing possible Soviet vetoes. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly. This procedure has been used 10 times so far, most notably in 1956 to help resolve the Suez Canal crisis. Britain and France, which were occupying parts of the canal at the time, vetoed Security Council resolutions calling for their withdrawal. The United States called for an emergency “Uniting for Peace” session of the General Assembly, which passed a withdrawal resolution. (A simple majority vote is required.) Britain and France pulled out shortly after.
Yet these non-Security Council resolutions are more symbolic pressure tactics than anything else. The council still maintains responsibility for enforcement, so naysayers among the permanent members can likely prevent the actual dispatching of troops. Nor, as history has shown, will all nations buckle like Britain and France did in 1956. In 1980, the General Assembly convened in a “Uniting for Peace” session and passed a resolution demanding the Soviet Union’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Soviets merely shrugged.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/03/can-you-bypass-a-u-n-security-council-veto.html
I love educating PBers, especially when it comes to history.
The UNSC can send troops, that's completely different.
The 128k figure is for deaths within 28 days of a positive test.
The 150k is deaths with Covid-19 listed as a cause on the death certificate.
Edit - IIRC it is top of the government's Covid-19 dashboard.
Assuming it goes ahead as planned, I'm counting May 17th as the end of lockdown, even if the restrictions won't all be gone and I'm pessimistic about exactly how many months (or years) we may end up being lumbered with some of them. Twenty-one weeks, much of them stretching through what is, after all, the most depressing time of the year even under normal circumstances. I doubt that countries in Europe which have fallen back into lockdown more recently will have to put up with anything as bad as that.
So seems like just a case of 'I'll pick the higher number other people aren't using because the worst case scenario suits my argument".
But I doubt it.
@HYUFD ?
Whitty, Vallance, and JVT have often used the higher figure to contextualise things.
Yeah right.
Someone still got the strops after the Liverpool result lol.
.
https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/
https://www.murdermap.co.uk/statistics/london-murders-2021-latest-total/
Compare, if you will, to Russia, where the official Covid death toll is about 100k but the excess death count for the pandemic period is closer to half-a-million (which, on a per capita basis, would be about twice as bad as the United States.)
It's why you've also heard more than once at the UK Government pressers that, in the long run, the best relative international measure of deaths in the pandemic is liable to come from the excess death statistics. They're the numbers least likely to be corrupted.
where this oft quoted "150,000 dead" figure comes from. Given our rather liberal reporting of covid deaths sits around the 126k mark are they privy to some statistics I'm not, are they predicting the future or do they just round up all numbers to the nearest 50,000?
The reality is when you were spouting your rubbish theories, it was in fact the government's own figures which they publish and highlight every day.
https://twitter.com/RachLoxton/status/1380169402302263300?s=20
I have a few foreign friends and colleagues and they marvel at the concept that the ONS and statistics authority have the power, which they often use, to publicly criticise and reprimand ministers, including the PM, for using misleading stats.
It would be an alien concept in their home countries.
What stood out for me is that Mark Oaten is now apparently a lobbyist on behalf of the International Fur Trade federation:
https://lobbying-register.uk/individual/?i=132967&search=Mark Oaten
Is this the vaccine Germany is procuring lots of?
Classic.
Though Jim Sillars is the only prominent proponent I know of outside the EU/outside the UK, which IMO is the only intellectually coherent form of Sindy.