Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
Indeed. Frankly I don't see why people want to go on their ghastly holidays to places like Tenerife when they should be more than satisfied with taking long walks in their own 3-acre gardens.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
Nobody mentioned foreign holidays did they? I think people are keen to hear whether and when they can have any holiday at all.
As far as I am aware the latest poll showed 81% are not booking a holiday for this year
Just the 13 million people that are then. Plus those that change their mind if and when they can, which will be millions more.
Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
A couple, yes. Not day in day out. The answer is pretty much always some variant of "wait and see".
Good to keep the pressure up then. Two questions out of a dozen (which is roughly what it was) is perfectly reasonable.
The answer is always going to be that it's not in the power of HMG to decide where you can and cannot go after the national restrictions have ended. They have no say or influence over when other countries open their borders. The only thing they do control is what happens on the way back, which for many travellers will be two weeks in a hotel. It's a pointless to repeatedly ask the question because there isn't much that they can do about it.
Neither question was about foreign holidays as I heard it. Most people I know will be delighted for a fortnight in Devon.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
He has no reason to speculate now, he can get on with the program.
Boris seems to have learnt from his early errors
Indeed. Though also in the past he was trying to keep spirits up, which is his natural style - now simply reporting the facts does that. No need for boosterism.
The stock market and pound soared today no doubt due to the vaccination success
It could be trading highs in the Far East, or Johnson's awesomeness. Take your pick according to your political colour.
Bloomberg were commenting that the successful vaccination programme will allow the economy to open earlier than others
Like I said, take your pick according to your political colour.
However, from a domestic point of view vaccinating everyone can only be a positive.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
What, the journalists are overcome with their anxiety about not being able to go on holidays that they can't come up with intelligent questions? Explains a lot I suppose.
They are asking what their readers want them to ask.
Do I have to explain how all of it works to you?
Really? That seems inconsistent with the polls that suggest only around 1 in 10 are actually thinking about it.
Can you control that data/claim against groups that normally take holidays?
If they don't take holidays in normal times, their views are irrelevant to this discussion.
We're feeling sufficiently bullish to have booked 4 days in Whitstable.
At least we'll be able to rely on all these 'Influencers' to tell us how nice all these holiday resorts are when they are there "for work" and we are stuck at home.
Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
Should we ask you every day if you have finished complaining about other people compiling about journalists asking repetitive questions?
Perhaps if PB sent a list of authorised questions (perhaps incorporating desired reactions to some of the papers @Nigelb posts) to the Press Association that would solve things once and for all.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
What, the journalists are overcome with their anxiety about not being able to go on holidays that they can't come up with intelligent questions? Explains a lot I suppose.
They are asking what their readers want them to ask.
Do I have to explain how all of it works to you?
Really? That seems inconsistent with the polls that suggest only around 1 in 10 are actually thinking about it.
Can you control that data/claim against groups that normally take holidays?
If they don't take holidays in normal times, their views are irrelevant to this discussion.
We're feeling sufficiently bullish to have booked 4 days in Whitstable.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
Nobody mentioned foreign holidays did they? I think people are keen to hear whether and when they can have any holiday at all.
If that's all they were saying then sure, that's a much more reasonable thing to ask about (and my sense is they will happen in some form).
Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
A couple, yes. Not day in day out. The answer is pretty much always some variant of "wait and see".
Good to keep the pressure up then. Two questions out of a dozen (which is roughly what it was) is perfectly reasonable.
The answer is always going to be that it's not in the power of HMG to decide where you can and cannot go after the national restrictions have ended. They have no say or influence over when other countries open their borders. The only thing they do control is what happens on the way back, which for many travellers will be two weeks in a hotel. It's a pointless to repeatedly ask the question because there isn't much that they can do about it.
Neither question was about foreign holidays as I heard it. Most people I know will be delighted for a fortnight in Devon.
With the wording I took it as meaning foreign holidays, but fair enough. For domestic holidays the answer is to wait until next week, surely? Repeatedly asking that doesn't help either.
First for 5-9 and second for 1-4 is roughly 30-35 million total doses isn't it?
Yep. I'm going to update model with the new target of end April. Reckon it'll be key workers (Widely defined) - whether I'll get a jab before I'm 40 in June is an open question ...
538 net approval shows Biden having the worst honeymoon of any president since the second world war except for Trump.
Numbers on 538 yours truly is looking at (as I type this drivel) re: presidential approval % on Day (edit) 27
Biden 54.6% Trump 44.6% (lower than Uncle Joe) Obama 63.9% Bush II 52.0% (lower) Clinton 51.8% (lower) Bush I 54.6% (even with Biden) Reagan 51.6% (lower) Carter 66% Ford 71% Nixon 59% Johnson 76% Kennedy 72% Eisenhower 68% Truman not given
SO out of 14 post-WWII POTUS, there are FOUR with lower approval ratings on equivalent date that Uncle Joe, plus one tie.
AND from 1980 forward, Biden's approval three weeks was exceeded only by Barack Obama.
Shows how divided US politics now is that IKE, a Republican and Kennedy and Johnson, both Democrats all had approval ratings over 65% at this stage which no President since 1980 has been able to match
Absolutely for Kennedy especially considering how very narrowly he won his election. Johnson was after the assasination wasn't it so you'd expect a sympathy surge.
Though it seems even stranger in hindsight seeing how much approval there was for Ford and Carter. Neither are particularly remembered as popular POTUS's.
They weren't especially noteworthy Presidents but both Ford, as a socially liberal Michigan Republican and Carter, as a socially conservative Southern Democrat, were relative moderates within their parties
Ford "socially liberal"? Certainly NOT when he was in Congress, where he was leading advocate for the impeachment of Chief Justice Earl Warren!
Anyway, the real reason for the sharp difference pre-1980 versus post-1980, is the change in US attitudes towards politicians in particular, and the American political system in general. Characterized by rising distrust, disgust and disappointment among a VERY broad spectrum - left, right & center.
Ford was the last pro choice Republican US president in that he did not favour outlawing abortion, so he certainly was.
Indeed in 1976 Ford was on most issues more socially liberal than Carter, even if more fiscally conservative.
1976 was also the last election the Democrats won Texas and Ohio and the Republicans won California and Illinois
He has no reason to speculate now, he can get on with the program.
Boris seems to have learnt from his early errors
Indeed. Though also in the past he was trying to keep spirits up, which is his natural style - now simply reporting the facts does that. No need for boosterism.
The stock market and pound soared today no doubt due to the vaccination success
One hopes we start to see a bit of confidence returning to the economy, improved manufacturing and hiring expectations.
It has been a long, long lonely winter for many.
It has - but my son who runs a bar (and has a history of depression and anxiety) is now beginning to feel optimistic about the future - he hasn't felt like that for a while
Oddly I'm finding the opposite. I've found my depression spiking and mood becoming very low as objectively everything is becoming more positive.
I think I'm just sick and tired of it all.
Keep your pecker up. You're not alone in having had some very dark days recently. The lack of sunshine and relentnesses of the tedium don't help, especially now most of us have passed the 1-year anniversary of this affecting their life in a quite serious way. Not long to go now, marathon is basically run. We're on the mall now with legs of jelly.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
What, the journalists are overcome with their anxiety about not being able to go on holidays that they can't come up with intelligent questions? Explains a lot I suppose.
They are asking what their readers want them to ask.
Do I have to explain how all of it works to you?
Really? That seems inconsistent with the polls that suggest only around 1 in 10 are actually thinking about it.
Can you control that data/claim against groups that normally take holidays?
If they don't take holidays in normal times, their views are irrelevant to this discussion.
We're feeling sufficiently bullish to have booked 4 days in Whitstable.
For Christmas?
Many normal people are hoping and/or planning summer holidays, perhaps alongside some getaways in late spring. That you prefer to lock yourself away for months/years is not a surprise. But toning down the judgemental authoritarianism would be worth considering.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
What, the journalists are overcome with their anxiety about not being able to go on holidays that they can't come up with intelligent questions? Explains a lot I suppose.
They are asking what their readers want them to ask.
Do I have to explain how all of it works to you?
Really? That seems inconsistent with the polls that suggest only around 1 in 10 are actually thinking about it.
Can you control that data/claim against groups that normally take holidays?
If they don't take holidays in normal times, their views are irrelevant to this discussion.
We're feeling sufficiently bullish to have booked 4 days in Whitstable.
I'll pop over and say hi - I'm from Blean which is the village between Whitstable and Canterbury. My folks have a beachhut.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
What, the journalists are overcome with their anxiety about not being able to go on holidays that they can't come up with intelligent questions? Explains a lot I suppose.
They are asking what their readers want them to ask.
Do I have to explain how all of it works to you?
Really? That seems inconsistent with the polls that suggest only around 1 in 10 are actually thinking about it.
Can you control that data/claim against groups that normally take holidays?
If they don't take holidays in normal times, their views are irrelevant to this discussion.
We're feeling sufficiently bullish to have booked 4 days in Whitstable.
For Christmas?
Many normal people are hoping and/or planning summer holidays, perhaps alongside some getaways in late spring. That you prefer to lock yourself away for months/years is not a surprise. But toning down the judgemental authoritarianism would be worth considering.
7 out of the 10 best UK districts for R in Malmsbury's list are in Kent or E Sussex. The other two are the Orkney and the Shetlands and West Devon. I think we all had it down here in the SE corner.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
The problem with that is how many does it need? But I am cautiously optimistic that they won't be needed. While not completely convinced I am starting to come to the conclusion that we were hit so hard with the new variant here in Kent that we are, at least in the sections of the population that are most at risk, reaching some level of population immunity that vaccines can only add to.
The R in London has completely dropped off, I think we're at just over 0.6 so I think we need to start looking into whether herd immunity has been reached in some boroughs.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
Perhaps the opinion polls might give us some clue? REFUK's on about 3% in the most recent ones, so clearly they've got an electoral goldmine on their hands. Trump's anti-lockdown (plus anti-mask, anti-science, etc.) policy was super popular in the presidential election too.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
No it doesn't. Why do you keep peddling something you don't understand?
1. The vaccines don't protect EVERYBODY, although they do protect most people. 2. Not everyone is vaccinated. 3. Time is needed after vaccination to build immunity.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
I suppose your name gives it away that you would prefer to allow the government to proceed unencumbered by any free press ridiculousness.
"That kind of pressure" is the pressure from your fellow countrymen. And everything the govt does should be done with that in mind.
This of course doesn't dictate or preclude any policy decision if it has been taken after due consideration. But there are many stakeholders who should have input into that.
Holidays one month earlier than otherwise planned but an extra 50 (or 500) deaths? Who can say. But the government should be aware that the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible.
They have smashed the vaccine part of this so therefore should be in a good position to do this.
Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
Should we ask you every day if you have finished complaining about other people compiling about journalists asking repetitive questions?
I'm still baffled by the idea people cannot complain about journalists questions, and the idea that anything asked by a journalist is definitely a question of public interest, when they do ask questions people won't have thought of or won't be as exercised by all the damn time. Most questions from political journalists will be about things most people don't know about or don't care about, given how much most people pay close attention to politics, so why this pretence that anything they choose to ask must be indicative of public interest I don't know, even if this particular instance is. It's quite phony in, in effect, acting as though people never question journalists, and that the journalists must always be right.
Why not keep the pressure on the government on some other aspect of this? Are people allowed to push journalists to do that? By this logic journalists should always ask the same questions over and over again if that is what people want, and would that be in the public interest?
For heaven's sake, surely even journalists make a distinction between the public interest and what the public is interested in? Yet here we are, every time, to be chided for disagreeing with the choice of questions journalists ask.
It's also, notably, exactly the sort of thing a politician would do to avoid answering questions. The next time there's some kind of political scandal that hasn't breached the public consciousness and the politician in question says 'This is not what the public is interested in, we should talk about X', I hope anabobazina is there to tell us the politician is completely correct - since for most people that will actually be true, so why is a journalist going on about shadow minister X saying something against the leader, or junior minister Y cocking up on newsnight?
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Spot on.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday) Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day) All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
Perfectly valid to ask a couple of questions about holidays.
1. It keeps the pressure on the government 2. It's what's exercising the minds of millions of people
The idea that journalists shouldn't ask questions of public interest falls squarely into the 'only on PB' category.
Should we ask you every day if you have finished complaining about other people compiling about journalists asking repetitive questions?
I'm still baffled by the idea people cannot complain about journalists questions, and the idea that anything asked by a journalist is definitely a question of public interest, when they do ask questions people won't have thought of or won't be as exercised by all the damn time. Most questions from political journalists will be about things most people don't know about or don't care about, given how much most people pay close attention to politics, so why this pretence that anything they choose to ask must be indicative of public interest I don't know, even if this particular instance is. It's quite phony in, in effect, acting as though people never question journalists, and that the journalists must always be right.
Why not keep the pressure on the government on some other aspect of this? Are people allowed to push journalists to do that? By this logic journalists should always ask the same questions over and over again if that is what people want, and would that be in the public interest?
For heaven's sake, surely even journalists make a distinction between the public interest and what the public is interested in? Yet here we are, every time, to be chided for disagreeing with the choice of questions journalists ask.
It's also, notably, exactly the sort of thing a politician would do to avoid answering questions. The next time there's some kind of political scandal that hasn't breached the public consciousness and the politician in question says 'This is not what the public is interested in, we should talk about X', I hope anabobazina is there to tell us the politician is completely correct - since for most people that will actually be true, so why is a journalist going on about shadow minister X saying something against the leader, or junior minister Y cocking up on newsnight?
Go ahead and whine about the questions as much as you like, I'm not stopping you.
I just think you are wrong, and have said why several times.
Honestly, apart from banks, I cannot think of another sector that the public would resent more giving a bailout/support to.
No sympathy. Properties are investments and the government isn't there to protect investment income, it doesn't, for example make up for lost dividends for equity investors or interest payments to bond owners of companies that have defaulted.
They chose to take the risk of investing in property and now they have to live with that.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
If you actually listen to what Boris Johnson said today, he gave no commitment to ease lockdown in any way at all at any time at all.
Johnson explicitly said could he not even guarantee that this would be the last lockdown and gave precisely zero other commitments whatever.
He and government are not being tied in any way, and continue to reserve the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
He has finally learned then: no more hostages to fortune.
No restraints on government power, either.
Well apart from the fact the Covid-19 regulations have to be renewed and voted upon in Parliament shortly.
I think that's one thing we can happily dismiss as a formality. The size of any possible Tory rebellion is irrelevant. Labour would be thrilled if the Government announced a zero Covid policy and proposed keeping everyone under house arrest for several years whilst they worked on achieving it.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
No it doesn't. Why do you keep peddling something you don't understand?
1. The vaccines don't protect EVERYBODY, although they do protect most people. 2. Not everyone is vaccinated. 3. Time is needed after vaccination to build immunity.
Which part of this don't you understand?
Contrarian understands all of that. What he is saying is despite the government presenting the vaccines as a silver bullet reasons will always be found for more lockdowns because the public/gov opponents/the media/the killjoys have a taste for it.
I think Contrarian over-eggs it rather and I don`t accept that the government is addicted to authoritarian measures.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
I suppose your name gives it away that you would prefer to allow the government to proceed unencumbered by any free press ridiculousness.
"That kind of pressure" is the pressure from your fellow countrymen. And everything the govt does should be done with that in mind.
This of course doesn't dictate or preclude any policy decision if it has been taken after due consideration. But there are many stakeholders who should have input into that.
Holidays one month earlier than otherwise planned but an extra 50 (or 500) deaths? Who can say. But the government should be aware that the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible.
They have smashed the vaccine part of this so therefore should be in a good position to do this.
I'm not quite sure where you got some of that from my fairly conciliatory post. Every single poll taken during this entire pandemic has indicated that our fellow countrymen want the government to be at least as cautious as it has been, with the weight of opinion falling squarely on the more cautious side. The idea that 'the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible' is a minority position, since all the evidence is that people rank holidays behind priorities such as preserving lives, opening schools, and allowing the major parts of the economy to operate again. If you have some data to the contrary, then by all means share it.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Spot on.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday) Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day) All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
All looks reasonable.
I am more than happy to keep schools, especially secondary schools, closed until Easter.
I think 'all restrictions removed' will be closer to August/September.
“I am a special adviser and as such I am not allowed to direct civil servants,” he added. “However, as a result of my suggestion I expected people to hire Public First. The nature of my role is that sometimes people take what I say as an instruction and that is a reasonable inference as people assume I am often speaking for the prime minister.”
..........and no competitive tender. It strikes me he and his boss have form.
Does seem, on the face of it, crossing the line of propriety. Don't see why he needed to advise the hiring of them at all, if he had that level of relationship with them.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
The R in London has completely dropped off, I think we're at just over 0.6 so I think we need to start looking into whether herd immunity has been reached in some boroughs.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
Fair enough. The trouble with your first point is that the public are behind lockdown measures because they are scared and financially cushioned. Until these two things are removed, or at least lessened, we are in a trap and so is the government because they are populists.
The R in London has completely dropped off, I think we're at just over 0.6 so I think we need to start looking into whether herd immunity has been reached in some boroughs.
How would you propose testing that hypothesis? (Which I think is potentially valid - but if so will likely be through a combination of Vaccine, Antibodies from previous COVID infection, T-Cell from previous COVID, and T-Cell from previous related infection - so non straightforward to test for)
Also - it might be the case that herd immunity has been reached *with the current lockdown rules in place* - ie that herd immunity has been reached amongst hospital workers, bus drivers etc. but that the general populace is still more vulnerable.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Spot on.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday) Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day) All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
All looks reasonable.
I am more than happy to keep schools, especially secondary schools, closed until Easter.
I think 'all restrictions removed' will be closer to August/September.
I think my 21 June is a bit of a stretch, but they will certainly be looking at 22 July – the first day of the school holidays...
If you actually listen to what Boris Johnson said today, he gave no commitment to ease lockdown in any way at all at any time at all.
Johnson explicitly said could he not even guarantee that this would be the last lockdown and gave precisely zero other commitments whatever.
He and government are not being tied in any way, and continue to reserve the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
He has finally learned then: no more hostages to fortune.
No restraints on government power, either.
Do you actually think that Boris Johnson of all people wants to have the country on lockdown if he can possibly avoid it? Most, if not all, of the valid criticisms made of him over the last year have been that he has been too reluctant to close things down when they need to.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
No it doesn't. Why do you keep peddling something you don't understand?
1. The vaccines don't protect EVERYBODY, although they do protect most people. 2. Not everyone is vaccinated. 3. Time is needed after vaccination to build immunity.
Which part of this don't you understand?
Contrarian understands all of that. What he is saying is despite the government presenting the vaccines as a silver bullet reasons will always be found for more lockdowns because the public/gov opponents/the media/the killjoys have a taste for it.
I think Contrarian over-eggs it rather and I don`t accept that the government is addicted to authoritarian measures.
Either it is a silver bullet or it isn't
If it is we no longer need lockdowns and we can indeed set a timetable for exit.
If vaccination isn't a silver bullet then why are they trumpeting it like it is?
The only answer is surely that the government's strategy is containment.
If you actually listen to what Boris Johnson said today, he gave no commitment to ease lockdown in any way at all at any time at all.
Johnson explicitly said could he not even guarantee that this would be the last lockdown and gave precisely zero other commitments whatever.
He and government are not being tied in any way, and continue to reserve the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
He has finally learned then: no more hostages to fortune.
No restraints on government power, either.
Well apart from the fact the Covid-19 regulations have to be renewed and voted upon in Parliament shortly.
I think that's one thing we can happily dismiss as a formality. The size of any possible Tory rebellion is irrelevant. Labour would be thrilled if the Government announced a zero Covid policy and proposed keeping everyone under house arrest for several years whilst they worked on achieving it.
I don't agree with that actually. There are signs of life in the Labour movement against Zero Covid idiocy.
On topic, I have to say I'm cautious about putting too much weight on one approval poll. Looking at poll aggregators, the averages appear to be mid-50s approve, mid-30s disapprove.
That's a little better than Trump (who was clearly a divisive figure from day one), a little worse than Obama (for whom there was a quite a lot of goodwill as first black President, but which fairly quickly reverted to a more partisan divide), and on a par with both Bush Jnr and Clinton.
I think Biden's team will be pleasantly surprised given Trump did everything in his power to undermine his successor's legitimacy, and indeed the reasonably good figures are probably helped by the fact Trump overplayed his hand (to put it at its mildest). I don't, however, see it as an indicator of enormous goodwill that will allow Biden to overcome the very partisan nature of US politics just now. I think he's genuine in wanting to do that, but he probably understands that it's a much more gradual process of de-escalation.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
Lockdown is very popular for the following reasons:
1. Widespread public fear of the virus on the one hand; on the other, the idea that if we stick it out for just a bit longer then the vaccines will finish the thing off and we can go back to normal 2. Large numbers of working age people are yet to suffer because they're being paid most of their salary to do nothing via the furlough scheme 3. Large numbers of old people (the key Tory demographic) spend most of their lives sat in front of the TV or shuffling to and from the supermarket, so they barely notice the difference anyway 4. Much of the population are sanctimonious curtain-twitchers for whom moaning about the bad behaviour of others makes them feel really good
Moreover, a large fraction of the people who are absolutely sick of it nonetheless regard it as a necessary evil, and/or something that they can do nothing about anyway.
I don't think somehow that we're on the cusp of a revolution here.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Spot on.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday) Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day) All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
All looks reasonable.
I am more than happy to keep schools, especially secondary schools, closed until Easter.
I think 'all restrictions removed' will be closer to August/September.
I think my 21 June is a bit of a stretch, but they will certainly be looking at 22 July – the first day of the school holidays...
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
Fair enough. The trouble with your first point is that the public are behind lockdown measures because they are scared and financially cushioned. Until these two things are removed, or at least lessened, we are in a trap and so is the government because they are populists.
Which neatly answers the point of 'do you think the government wants to keep us in lockdown a minute longer than necessary?'
When you look at the alternative for the government, people finding out some of the big downsides of lockdown, the answer is, maybe.
If you actually listen to what Boris Johnson said today, he gave no commitment to ease lockdown in any way at all at any time at all.
Johnson explicitly said could he not even guarantee that this would be the last lockdown and gave precisely zero other commitments whatever.
He and government are not being tied in any way, and continue to reserve the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
He has finally learned then: no more hostages to fortune.
No restraints on government power, either.
Well apart from the fact the Covid-19 regulations have to be renewed and voted upon in Parliament shortly.
I think that's one thing we can happily dismiss as a formality. The size of any possible Tory rebellion is irrelevant. Labour would be thrilled if the Government announced a zero Covid policy and proposed keeping everyone under house arrest for several years whilst they worked on achieving it.
Not true, Boris would find himself no longer being PM in this scenario and he'd be replaced by a candidate that said fuck COVID let's open up.
Cheap grub or another spike in Covid cases? Tough call.
I can see the Government leaving restaurants shut for so long that there'll be little prospect of a large spike in cases by the time they let them open again, barring a disastrous vaccine-evading mutation.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
I hope you are wrong. The figures are improving so fast and we are well past the point that NHS is under threat.
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
Spot on.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday) Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day) All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
All looks reasonable.
I am more than happy to keep schools, especially secondary schools, closed until Easter.
I think 'all restrictions removed' will be closer to August/September.
I think my 21 June is a bit of a stretch, but they will certainly be looking at 22 July – the first day of the school holidays...
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
Lockdown is very popular for the following reasons:
1. Widespread public fear of the virus on the one hand; on the other, the idea that if we stick it out for just a bit longer then the vaccines will finish the thing off and we can go back to normal 2. Large numbers of working age people are yet to suffer because they're being paid most of their salary to do nothing via the furlough scheme 3. Large numbers of old people (the key Tory demographic) spend most of their lives sat in front of the TV or shuffling to and from the supermarket, so they barely notice the difference anyway 4. Much of the population are sanctimonious curtain-twitchers for whom moaning about the bad behaviour of others makes them feel really good
Moreover, a large fraction of the people who are absolutely sick of it nonetheless regard it as a necessary evil, and/or something that they can do nothing about anyway.
I don't think somehow that we're on the cusp of a revolution here.
Chatting to my MP today, he is very clear about one thing: there can be no more lockdowns after these end. If that requires a little more caution on the dates we exit the current one, so be it.
He's a very stupid MP then, and almost certainly trumpeting his own greatness.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Except that some new political parties will pledge never to have lockdowns again, whatever ills befall the British people.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
I can't see such a thing. The idea of basing a party on it is absurd.
Reform and Reclaim will both campaign on No lockdown tickets in the spring. Reform have Great Barrington as a policy.
Oh God. That may do more harm than good.
I think this site, along with the media and the government enormously underestimates the suffering that lockdown has caused.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
Lockdown is very popular for the following reasons:
1. Widespread public fear of the virus on the one hand; on the other, the idea that if we stick it out for just a bit longer then the vaccines will finish the thing off and we can go back to normal 2. Large numbers of working age people are yet to suffer because they're being paid most of their salary to do nothing via the furlough scheme 3. Large numbers of old people (the key Tory demographic) spend most of their lives sat in front of the TV or shuffling to and from the supermarket, so they barely notice the difference anyway 4. Much of the population are sanctimonious curtain-twitchers for whom moaning about the bad behaviour of others makes them feel really good
Moreover, a large fraction of the people who are absolutely sick of it nonetheless regard it as a necessary evil, and/or something that they can do nothing about anyway.
I don't think somehow that we're on the cusp of a revolution here.
It's technically correct we don't yet know whether someone in an election campaign promising no more lockdowns or restrictions, no matter what, will prove popular, but like the extended dose vaccination strategy, there are solid reasons for thinking that in the short term the approach being taken is correct, and therefore it will not be particularly popular to deviate from that.
I've been surprised how long people and politicians have been quiescent. Certainly the devasting Christmas wave has been a large part of that. But as you suggest with the categories, the unaffected and curtain twitchers will not long outnumber those who are going along with it as a necessary evil and out of fear when the necesssity and fear diminish, as they will in the coming months.
It's good that people are not just accepting of it as an endless state, but people won't live out the Naked Sun for too long.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
I suppose your name gives it away that you would prefer to allow the government to proceed unencumbered by any free press ridiculousness.
"That kind of pressure" is the pressure from your fellow countrymen. And everything the govt does should be done with that in mind.
This of course doesn't dictate or preclude any policy decision if it has been taken after due consideration. But there are many stakeholders who should have input into that.
Holidays one month earlier than otherwise planned but an extra 50 (or 500) deaths? Who can say. But the government should be aware that the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible.
They have smashed the vaccine part of this so therefore should be in a good position to do this.
I'm not quite sure where you got some of that from my fairly conciliatory post. Every single poll taken during this entire pandemic has indicated that our fellow countrymen want the government to be at least as cautious as it has been, with the weight of opinion falling squarely on the more cautious side. The idea that 'the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible' is a minority position, since all the evidence is that people rank holidays behind priorities such as preserving lives, opening schools, and allowing the major parts of the economy to operate again. If you have some data to the contrary, then by all means share it.
Apologies I was speed responding and I appreciate the conciliatory nature. I had thought, this being PB, that the latter part was being condescending.
I'm not so sure the polls tell the complete story. Plenty of shy holiday makers imo.
Honestly, apart from banks, I cannot think of another sector that the public would resent more giving a bailout/support to.
No sympathy. Properties are investments and the government isn't there to protect investment income, it doesn't, for example make up for lost dividends for equity investors or interest payments to bond owners of companies that have defaulted.
They chose to take the risk of investing in property and now they have to live with that.
To further support your case, iirc the DWP considers rental property income as investment income.
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
No it doesn't. Why do you keep peddling something you don't understand?
1. The vaccines don't protect EVERYBODY, although they do protect most people. 2. Not everyone is vaccinated. 3. Time is needed after vaccination to build immunity.
Which part of this don't you understand?
Contrarian understands all of that. What he is saying is despite the government presenting the vaccines as a silver bullet reasons will always be found for more lockdowns because the public/gov opponents/the media/the killjoys have a taste for it.
I think Contrarian over-eggs it rather and I don`t accept that the government is addicted to authoritarian measures.
Either it is a silver bullet or it isn't
If it is we no longer need lockdowns and we can indeed set a timetable for exit.
If vaccination isn't a silver bullet then why are they trumpeting it like it is?
The only answer is surely that the government's strategy is containment.
Get through today, get to tomorrow.
I think the government`s strategy all along can be described as "protecting the NHS and muddle through; limiting economic effects and limiting the curtailment of liberties the best we can until a vaccine saves us".
I criticised their balance of this initially because I thought the loss of liberty aspect was not sufficiently priced-in and felt that safety/lockdown guidelines would have been preferable to laws. However, my premise was that a vaccine wouldn`t be discovered anytime soon. The vaccines changed my view. There is light in the short-term tunnel so let`s hold on but keep the government`s feet to the fire.
The R in London has completely dropped off, I think we're at just over 0.6 so I think we need to start looking into whether herd immunity has been reached in some boroughs.
How would you propose testing that hypothesis? (Which I think is potentially valid - but if so will likely be through a combination of Vaccine, Antibodies from previous COVID infection, T-Cell from previous COVID, and T-Cell from previous related infection - so non straightforward to test for)
Also - it might be the case that herd immunity has been reached *with the current lockdown rules in place* - ie that herd immunity has been reached amongst hospital workers, bus drivers etc. but that the general populace is still more vulnerable.
I agree with all of that. It is a very difficult hypothesis to test. However, globally, if we assume in the aggregate the rate of human contact is similar throughout the world, then I cannot fathom an explanation as to the current downward slope of the below graph unless the virus is running out of people to infect, or at least cause symptoms in. It's been doing this for over a month now - tomorrow or the day after the seven day average will be half what it was at the peak on 13 January.
Restaurants might be closed, but we are swapping food cooked by neighbours. One of them left us a world-class fish curry last week. We have responded by dropping them off a duck and sausage cassoulet with a chocolate and orange mousse (Raymond Blanc's mother's recipe....).
Millions of people want to escape this and go on holiday.
The prior question was about support for people with mental health problems. Having clarity about holidays one way or another, and asking about when and if is a part of the normalisation of our lives and a coping mechanism for people who are suffering.
Does it mean they are demanding holidays? Only JHB and Tobes. The rest are just willing for it all to be "ok" and these questions are part of it.
Not everyone is as sanguine, wise, or has all the stats at their fingertips plus an informed view of the viral epidemiology.
Where do they want to go, Israel?
They are just scared, depressed, nervous, anxious. But for sure smartarse comments will help I'm sure.
I'm genuinely curious where they are hoping to go? Perhaps a dose of realism is in order.
Rob they want it all to be ok later in the year. Will it be? Who knows. But that is what people, in all their illogical, ignorant, misinformed glory want.
And hence the press are articulating this.
Both the questions and the answers are part of the coping mechanism.
The journalist was asking about holidays in weeks, not months. They should simply get a grip and stop asking.
I know we're all on PB but you do understand how human beings work, don't you?
Not all as clever as you, obvs, but the lumpen proletariat are a funny lot.
I honestly don't see how anyone, lumpen or not, benefits from false hope. There's plenty of good news coming in by the day, but foreign holidays are obviously going to be impractical for a while and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
It's not false hope. It's a process. First, it means it is in the public domain and, as @Anabobazina points out, ensures that the government - and scientists - are aware that millions of people want them, somehow, to work towards getting them to be able to go on holiday as soon as possible.
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
Well, God knows the country is in need of some collective reassurance and counselling during this thing. In the past, my concern was that that kind of pressure could lead to too quick a loosening for the sake of some easy popularity, but it looks as if the government have learned that lesson this time around.
Except that this approach contradicts the government's own narrative.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
As a rule, they’re only likely to help people after they’re administered. And even then, you have to wait three weeks. Current total of jabbed-plus-three-weeks: 6.8 million or so; about 10%. So for 90% of Brits, they will not, indeed, protect us right now.
There are many lockdown fans on here who have legitimately and reasonably drawn a line at the point they think things should open up.
I'm a lockdown fan in that it evidently works, I saw pictures of the Italian hospitals last March, and every death from this disease is a huge tragedy.
What I also think, however and where I have sympathy for the @contrarians of this world is that the route out is far from clear. What's the difference between staying in lockdown because a new variant might emerge and staying in lockdown because a whole new disease might emerge? Finally, if Covid, what else? We have crossed the Rubicon of government administrative measures.
Why? Well first ask Confucius. Secondly, it is a comfort zone and a habit. We are printing money after all so what's the harm.
For those who are fans of an extended lockdown "just to be sure", what about if the govt said it would keep us in lockdown until there are no deaths or cases any more. Or until just beyond you think it's reasonable to so so?
Freedoms are precious and albeit for very good reasons we have given many up.
I still think we could have avoided Lockdowns 2 and 3 if we'd been more ruthless with the Tiers system.
There was always relentless pressure pushing for lowered restrictions, though, and that's what messed it all up. About three weeks before Lockdown 2, we in Oxfordshire were pushing for putting the county into Tier 3. All five councils (run by all political parties: 2 were Conservative-run, 1 Labour-run, 1 Lib-Dem-run, 1 run by a Lib Dem/Green coalition), the county council, Thames valley Police, and the local NHS Trust were all unanimous in it.
Three of the five MPs (the three who happened to be sitting on the Government benches) convinced the Government to leave us in Tier 1. We managed to shift to Tier 2 just before Lockdown 2, but it was way too late.
That story unfolded across the entire country. Because we didn't bite the bullet with higher Tier restrictions then, we ended up with weeks and weeks of lockdowns.
Hell - if we'd controlled the virus better in September and October, the Kent variant might never have had the opportunity to arise. Yes, we'd have seen similar variants from Brazil and South Africa, but we could have been spared the big December surge.
But we didn't. And we ended up with Lockdown 2, and, in its turn, Lockdown 3.
The voices crusading against higher Tiers (The "Lockdown Sceptics," Toby Young, Allison Pearson, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Peter Hitchens, James Delingpole, Ivor Cummins, Michael Yeadon, David Paton, the CRG on the backbenches) ... they got their wish. And they ended up condemning us to all this bloody lockdown.
Comments
Secondly, by articulating it it is then out in the open. So "When can I go on holiday?" is met with "Not yet." that addresses directly peoples' concerns and helps them reconcile themselves with the situation.
However, from a domestic point of view vaccinating everyone can only be a positive.
Do you have any evidence that the measure increased covid cases when it was run successfully in the summer?
And there's no such thing as "covid secure" because the nasty little bugger is airborne.
Indeed in 1976 Ford was on most issues more socially liberal than Carter, even if more fiscally conservative.
1976 was also the last election the Democrats won Texas and Ohio and the Republicans won California and Illinois
Edit: Oops - Adur's in W Sussex. Apologies.
There will be as many lockdowns as it needs. I suspect though that there will be no more lockdowns, but he's right in the idea that we run this lockdown as long as is needed.
Johnson explicitly said could he not even guarantee that this would be the last lockdown and gave precisely zero other commitments whatever.
He and government are not being tied in any way, and continue to reserve the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want.
"Covid secure" was not a prominent one.
Here's my guess. I can see primary schools coming back on March 8th, secondaries not until after the Easter holidays, shops, gyms and hairdressers in stages during late Spring, but probably no movement at all on hospitality until three weeks after the last of the over 50s have been jabbed.
That takes us up to about the second May Bank Holiday, by which point there's a better chance of the weather not being consistently crap. That's the point at which I think we might get some of the hospitality trade back - though under, at a minimum, the same distancing and other restrictions that existed before they were last shut down. It's a distinct possibility that they might also be obliged to operate outdoors only for a couple of months, at least until priority groups in the second phase of the vaccine program (perhaps including, at a guess, all the over 40s) have had their shots. Hotels might have to wait until July, in time for the school holidays.
We might eventually get theatres and spectator sports back in late Summer as well (probably too late for the likes of Wimbledon, but in time for the start of the new football season,) and they won't be allowed full crowds for the foreseeable future. I think we can forget about things like music festivals and nightclubs altogether until next year; masks and social distancing will be around until Spring 2022.
Perhaps that will be popular. Or not. We do not yet know.
Look at our wonderful vaccines!
Careful they may NOT protect you! that's why we still need lockdown!!
Keeping cafes and restaurants shut (especially outside eating and drinking) until May is ridiculous. I think things will relax faster than you say, not least because that data will demand it and further curtailment of liberty will be legally suspect. And, of course, financially we are in the sh1t already.
We need legalities to be replaced with guidelines as soon as possible.
1. The vaccines don't protect EVERYBODY, although they do protect most people.
2. Not everyone is vaccinated.
3. Time is needed after vaccination to build immunity.
Which part of this don't you understand?
Not a huge deal yet but if this doesn't turn out to be but the tip of the iceberg I'm a Dutchman!
"That kind of pressure" is the pressure from your fellow countrymen. And everything the govt does should be done with that in mind.
This of course doesn't dictate or preclude any policy decision if it has been taken after due consideration. But there are many stakeholders who should have input into that.
Holidays one month earlier than otherwise planned but an extra 50 (or 500) deaths? Who can say. But the government should be aware that the onus is on it handling this pandemic such that it can allow people on holiday as soon as possible.
They have smashed the vaccine part of this so therefore should be in a good position to do this.
Why not keep the pressure on the government on some other aspect of this? Are people allowed to push journalists to do that? By this logic journalists should always ask the same questions over and over again if that is what people want, and would that be in the public interest?
For heaven's sake, surely even journalists make a distinction between the public interest and what the public is interested in? Yet here we are, every time, to be chided for disagreeing with the choice of questions journalists ask.
It's also, notably, exactly the sort of thing a politician would do to avoid answering questions. The next time there's some kind of political scandal that hasn't breached the public consciousness and the politician in question says 'This is not what the public is interested in, we should talk about X', I hope anabobazina is there to tell us the politician is completely correct - since for most people that will actually be true, so why is a journalist going on about shadow minister X saying something against the leader, or junior minister Y cocking up on newsnight?
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1361374736173907974
Honestly, apart from banks, I cannot think of another sector that the public would resent more giving a bailout/support to.
The roadmap needs to looking something like this:
Beer gardens 2 April (Good Friday)
Pubs (indoor allowed, Rule of Six) 1 May (May Day)
All restrictions removed 21 June (First Day of Summer)
Where you and I slightly disagree is that I would actually keep the exact same lockdown we have now until the 0001hrs on 2 April.
Why? By doing so, you get a free 17 days of schools closure, because they break up on Good Friday anyway.
Doesn't seem worth opening schools for three weeks to me, but I can understand those that think otherwise.
I just think you are wrong, and have said why several times.
They chose to take the risk of investing in property and now they have to live with that.
I also think the site underestimates the extent to which traditional supporters of the main parties have seen their representatives in a new light. Labour calling for ever tighter restrictions and job destroying measures on their young voters. Conservatives spending like Corbynites and acting like authoritarian socialists.
These insights may count one day. Or they may not. We don;t know yet.
I think Contrarian over-eggs it rather and I don`t accept that the government is addicted to authoritarian measures.
I am more than happy to keep schools, especially secondary schools, closed until Easter.
I think 'all restrictions removed' will be closer to August/September.
Something that was being denied upthread.
..........and no competitive tender. It strikes me he and his boss have form.
Also - it might be the case that herd immunity has been reached *with the current lockdown rules in place* - ie that herd immunity has been reached amongst hospital workers, bus drivers etc. but that the general populace is still more vulnerable.
If it is we no longer need lockdowns and we can indeed set a timetable for exit.
If vaccination isn't a silver bullet then why are they trumpeting it like it is?
The only answer is surely that the government's strategy is containment.
Get through today, get to tomorrow.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9251989/We-start-living-lives-writes-former-Home-Secretary-DAVID-BLUNKETT.html
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/11/we-are-desperate-for-human-contact-the-people-breaking-lockdown-to-have-sex
That's a little better than Trump (who was clearly a divisive figure from day one), a little worse than Obama (for whom there was a quite a lot of goodwill as first black President, but which fairly quickly reverted to a more partisan divide), and on a par with both Bush Jnr and Clinton.
I think Biden's team will be pleasantly surprised given Trump did everything in his power to undermine his successor's legitimacy, and indeed the reasonably good figures are probably helped by the fact Trump overplayed his hand (to put it at its mildest). I don't, however, see it as an indicator of enormous goodwill that will allow Biden to overcome the very partisan nature of US politics just now. I think he's genuine in wanting to do that, but he probably understands that it's a much more gradual process of de-escalation.
1. Widespread public fear of the virus on the one hand; on the other, the idea that if we stick it out for just a bit longer then the vaccines will finish the thing off and we can go back to normal
2. Large numbers of working age people are yet to suffer because they're being paid most of their salary to do nothing via the furlough scheme
3. Large numbers of old people (the key Tory demographic) spend most of their lives sat in front of the TV or shuffling to and from the supermarket, so they barely notice the difference anyway
4. Much of the population are sanctimonious curtain-twitchers for whom moaning about the bad behaviour of others makes them feel really good
Moreover, a large fraction of the people who are absolutely sick of it nonetheless regard it as a necessary evil, and/or something that they can do nothing about anyway.
I don't think somehow that we're on the cusp of a revolution here.
When you look at the alternative for the government, people finding out some of the big downsides of lockdown, the answer is, maybe.
Group 4 is well represented on PB, sadly.
I've been surprised how long people and politicians have been quiescent. Certainly the devasting Christmas wave has been a large part of that. But as you suggest with the categories, the unaffected and curtain twitchers will not long outnumber those who are going along with it as a necessary evil and out of fear when the necesssity and fear diminish, as they will in the coming months.
It's good that people are not just accepting of it as an endless state, but people won't live out the Naked Sun for too long.
I'm not so sure the polls tell the complete story. Plenty of shy holiday makers imo.
I criticised their balance of this initially because I thought the loss of liberty aspect was not sufficiently priced-in and felt that safety/lockdown guidelines would have been preferable to laws. However, my premise was that a vaccine wouldn`t be discovered anytime soon. The vaccines changed my view. There is light in the short-term tunnel so let`s hold on but keep the government`s feet to the fire.
We are coping.
And even then, you have to wait three weeks.
Current total of jabbed-plus-three-weeks: 6.8 million or so; about 10%.
So for 90% of Brits, they will not, indeed, protect us right now.
I'm a lockdown fan in that it evidently works, I saw pictures of the Italian hospitals last March, and every death from this disease is a huge tragedy.
What I also think, however and where I have sympathy for the @contrarians of this world is that the route out is far from clear. What's the difference between staying in lockdown because a new variant might emerge and staying in lockdown because a whole new disease might emerge? Finally, if Covid, what else? We have crossed the Rubicon of government administrative measures.
Why? Well first ask Confucius. Secondly, it is a comfort zone and a habit. We are printing money after all so what's the harm.
For those who are fans of an extended lockdown "just to be sure", what about if the govt said it would keep us in lockdown until there are no deaths or cases any more. Or until just beyond you think it's reasonable to so so?
Freedoms are precious and albeit for very good reasons we have given many up.
There was always relentless pressure pushing for lowered restrictions, though, and that's what messed it all up.
About three weeks before Lockdown 2, we in Oxfordshire were pushing for putting the county into Tier 3. All five councils (run by all political parties: 2 were Conservative-run, 1 Labour-run, 1 Lib-Dem-run, 1 run by a Lib Dem/Green coalition), the county council, Thames valley Police, and the local NHS Trust were all unanimous in it.
Three of the five MPs (the three who happened to be sitting on the Government benches) convinced the Government to leave us in Tier 1.
We managed to shift to Tier 2 just before Lockdown 2, but it was way too late.
That story unfolded across the entire country. Because we didn't bite the bullet with higher Tier restrictions then, we ended up with weeks and weeks of lockdowns.
Hell - if we'd controlled the virus better in September and October, the Kent variant might never have had the opportunity to arise. Yes, we'd have seen similar variants from Brazil and South Africa, but we could have been spared the big December surge.
But we didn't. And we ended up with Lockdown 2, and, in its turn, Lockdown 3.
The voices crusading against higher Tiers (The "Lockdown Sceptics," Toby Young, Allison Pearson, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Peter Hitchens, James Delingpole, Ivor Cummins, Michael Yeadon, David Paton, the CRG on the backbenches) ... they got their wish.
And they ended up condemning us to all this bloody lockdown.