Elections 2021: who wants what, who’ll get it, and what then? – politicalbetting.com

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Elections 2021: who wants what, who’ll get it, and what then? – politicalbetting.com

Elections are back on the menu. Lots of them. After the cancelled local election round last year, every person in Britain will have at least one vote to cast in May, many people will have several.

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HillmanMinx

Test

DecrepiterJohnL

India are 60 for 1 in the Test.

Mysticrose

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

DecrepiterJohnL

What happens to the non-Boris, non-Brexit Tories? How will they vote? Will they vote? Of course, since most presumably live in safe Conservative seats, it might not matter very much.

Andy_JS

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

ydoethur

Andy_JS said:

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

The look of bewilderment in that long stand was priceless. But it’s simple, Virat. You played down the wrong line to an otherwise quite normal ball.

Bizarre so far. Nohit’s looked in no trouble, thrashing the ball everywhere with disdain, and yet of the others even Pujara found life hard on this pitch. Can only conclude it’s because Sharma is playing shots, so Pant and Sundar will be dangerous.

fox327

Labour is still the party of the trades unions and of public sector workers. It has retreated to appealing to its historic core vote, and it no longer has an appetite to appeal to the wider public. What can Labour now say to the self-employed and people who work in or own small businesses? They have suffered badly in the lockdown.

Labour has little to offer to the nation beyond its core supporters. I cannot see how they will return to power, other than to renegotiate the UK's terms of business with the EU.

Roger

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

ydoethur

DecrepiterJohnL said:

What happens to the non-Boris, non-Brexit Tories? How will they vote? Will they vote? Of course, since most presumably live in safe Conservative seats, it might not matter very much.

Seats like Esher and Walton?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esher_and_Walton_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

Mysticrose

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

Mysticrose

And for the record, I don't particularly like Boris Johnson but I'm not going to sit with my brain in neutral and thumb up bum mindlessly chanting 'Labour, Labour' when they are serving no great purpose except to score Pyrrhic points in parliament.

I deal with facts and the facts to me are clear: after some sizeable cock-ups early on with the pandemic the Johnson Government are making a stellar success of the vaccine rollout and Brexit has gone much more smoothly so far than anticipated. The EU by contrast have shown themselves to be hopelessly lost in bureaucratic bungling.

I'm sorry if the facts are inconvenient to you Roger.

ydoethur

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

Roger doesn’t do facts. He only does personal abuse.

And I say that as somebody who flatly disagrees with your posts on Johnson.

Mysticrose

ydoethur said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

What happens to the non-Boris, non-Brexit Tories? How will they vote? Will they vote? Of course, since most presumably live in safe Conservative seats, it might not matter very much.

Seats like Esher and Walton?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esher_and_Walton_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

There was a lot of talk before GE2019 that places like that would go LibDem. I even suggested that Woking and Guildford might be worth a yellow flutter. In the end they remained pretty solidly blue, so I guess that's the answer. Those 'non-Boris, non-Brexit' Tories will chunter at this or that but still place their cross in the Conservative box.

Thanks for your other comment, appreciated.

Roger

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

It would be akin to disrupting a superbowl final and engaging one of the cheer leaders in the artistry of the quarter-back

Peter_the_Punter

ydoethur said:

Andy_JS said:

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

The look of bewilderment in that long stand was priceless. But it’s simple, Virat. You played down the wrong line to an otherwise quite normal ball.

Bizarre so far. Nohit’s looked in no trouble, thrashing the ball everywhere with disdain, and yet of the others even Pujara found life hard on this pitch. Can only conclude it’s because Sharma is playing shots, so Pant and Sundar will be dangerous.

Rohit has played a few false strokes and got away with them, but he's also played some wonderful shots and punished the bad ball. He's a great player.

Anybody that has layed the draw in this match will be feeling smug right now. Even at 11s I'd be a layer. Can't see this even going to a fifth day.

rkrkrk

fox327 said:

Labour is still the party of the trades unions and of public sector workers. It has retreated to appealing to its historic core vote, and it no longer has an appetite to appeal to the wider public. What can Labour now say to the self-employed and people who work in or own small businesses? They have suffered badly in the lockdown.

Labour has little to offer to the nation beyond its core supporters. I cannot see how they will return to power, other than to renegotiate the UK's terms of business with the EU.

Labour is the party of the young and youngish in a country which has gotten older.

There is a lot Labour offer the self-employed... a furlough scheme that didn't leave so many out, the tories tried to raise their taxes, a pragmatic approach on EU relations...

The problem is the retired. They need to do better with pensioners somehow.

Mysticrose

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

It would be akin to disrupting a superbowl final and engaging one of the cheer leaders in the artistry of the quarter-back

Roger, Roger, Roger. You do yourself no favours with a response like that, do you now?

How about disengaging with personal abuse and answering my points? Don't descend into unthinking tribalism. Tell us what you see as the purpose and direction of Labour right now. What's the vision?

Incidentally, the other big shift which happened with Boris was the despatch of Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain. It's very noticeable that since Carrie, Allegra and Dan Rosenfield came into the centre of power the Government have changed tack. The War on Whitehall has abated. That whole Dom Cummings aggressive anarchy from within has been replaced by something much softer, more mainstream and centrist.

And that appeals to me, I'm not afraid to say.

Theuniondivvie

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

It would be akin to disrupting a superbowl final and engaging one of the cheer leaders in the artistry of the quarter-back

Roger, Roger, Roger. You do yourself no favours with a response like that, do you now?

How about disengaging with personal abuse and answering my points? Don't descend into unthinking tribalism. Tell us what you see as the purpose and direction of Labour right now. What's the vision?

Incidentally, the other big shift which happened with Boris was the despatch of Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain. It's very noticeable that since Carrie, Allegra and Dan Rosenfield came into the centre of power the Government have changed tack. The War on Whitehall has abated. That whole Dom Cummings aggressive anarchy from within has been replaced by something much softer, more mainstream and centrist.

And that appeals to me, I'm not afraid to say.

Speaking as one of the Viet Cong upon whom the Union Directorate is going to unleash a new Rolling Thunder, can I just say how grateful I am that No 10 is incapable of doing softer, more mainstream and centrist in one particular area.

Charles

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

Brexit lorry chaos avoided as freight flows 'back to normal'

Internal figures seen by the BBC show outbound roll-on roll-off lorry traffic for Great Britain for the month so far at 98% of last February's levels.

Inbound traffic is at 99% of last year's levels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56044610

It's almost as ifJanuary's figures weren't comparable - not least because the French closed the border for a few days.

Will we get an FT article on this? Or will they focus on Q1 figures being down 25%+?

ydoethur

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Roger said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

I note from prefixing your posts 'As someone who has no time for Boris Johnson....' you have become his unashamed number one disciple (I was going to say Robert Thompson notwithstanding though you've now easily surpassed Robert). I normally wouldn't comment on someone's posting style but as you regularly kick in the groin header writers for their lack of brevity I feel unconstrained in suggesting you save bandwidth and tedium to readers by simply typing 'Ditto yesterday'

Well rather than going Ad hominem why don't you engage with the topic and my points? I deal with facts rather than tribal myopia. Let's start you off with two simple questions. I'd like answers please:

Have Boris Johnson and the UK made a success of vaccination? Yes/No

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Yes/No

It would be akin to disrupting a superbowl final and engaging one of the cheer leaders in the artistry of the quarter-back

Roger, Roger, Roger. You do yourself no favours with a response like that, do you now?

How about disengaging with personal abuse and answering my points? Don't descend into unthinking tribalism. Tell us what you see as the purpose and direction of Labour right now. What's the vision?

Incidentally, the other big shift which happened with Boris was the despatch of Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain. It's very noticeable that since Carrie, Allegra and Dan Rosenfield came into the centre of power the Government have changed tack. The War on Whitehall has abated. That whole Dom Cummings aggressive anarchy from within has been replaced by something much softer, more mainstream and centrist.

And that appeals to me, I'm not afraid to say.

Well, he’s not going to, so I will. You and I have had our run ins, but I hope we can disagree and debate like reasoning adults on the substance of this.

On Vaccines, the UK has done better than pretty much any comparable nation. Yes, there have been hiccups. We still have supply issues. But due to the foresight of the vaccine procurement programme, helped considerably by the centralised nature of the NHS, it’s currently going very well.

However, at the same time, the very success of the vaccine programme throws into stark relief too many earlier mistakes. If we had locked down properly three months ago, when vaccines were just over the horizon and cases were taking off, we could have kept the virus under control and vaccination and rapid reopening would be far easier now. As it is, the determination to ‘save Christmas’ and ‘keep schools open’ has forced us to lock down far harder and more disastrously for longer while still causing many avoidable deaths at a time when an endgame was in sight.

Has Brexit proved a disaster? Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘disaster.’ The Sky has not fallen in, nor the earth stopped rotating, nor has Ireland declared war. So far, so good. But a great many foreseeable problems were unforeseen by the government - live animal/fish exports, supply chains into Ireland, excessive paperwork - partly because of the last minute nature of the deal, and partly because the government is totally incompetent. So I would say it has been at this moment a failure, because it hasn’t achieved what it said it would achieve, but it has led to what the more realistic sceptics said it would - unnecessary confusion and delay.

On Cummings, I can only agree. Dangerous man, because he was a stupid man - worse, one who was unshakeably convinced of his own genius. Also a nasty and dishonest bully. The further such people are kept from government, the better. But it speaks volumes and not in a good way that he was hired at all and kept so long despite his persistent track record of failure.

IanB2

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

OldKingCole

Charles said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

Brexit lorry chaos avoided as freight flows 'back to normal'

Internal figures seen by the BBC show outbound roll-on roll-off lorry traffic for Great Britain for the month so far at 98% of last February's levels.

Inbound traffic is at 99% of last year's levels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56044610

It's almost as ifJanuary's figures weren't comparable - not least because the French closed the border for a few days.

Will we get an FT article on this? Or will they focus on Q1 figures being down 25%+?

Good morning everyone. Good to wake up to th news of Kohli and Pujara's departures.

On topic, so far as this post is concerned, my understanding is that while the number of vehicles remains similar, many of them are empty. Now I don't know how many were this time last year, but if truckers are delivering loads and then turning round and coming, or going, home empty that's not an efficient use of transport, nor is it a sign that everything's normal.

Mysticrose

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

Mysticrose

And to be honest, if I come on here and receive personal abuse I'm leaving. I like this place for its political discourse. Personal abuse is unnecessary and unhelpful to my life right now.

I will put it down to lockdown grumpiness but shan't hang around if it continues.

IanB2

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Mysticrose

Ydoethur, in what way has Brexit been a failure? It's difficult not to associate our vaccine success, for example, with our departure from the EU, who are stuck in a bureaucratic quagmire.

Mysticrose

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

IanB2

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

Because, when you’re predicting a Boris landslide way ahead of events, reminding myself that pretty much every similar prediction you have made before has turned out to be catastrophically wrong is deeply reassuring.

Nigelb

Peter_the_Punter said:

ydoethur said:

Andy_JS said:

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

The look of bewilderment in that long stand was priceless. But it’s simple, Virat. You played down the wrong line to an otherwise quite normal ball.

Bizarre so far. Nohit’s looked in no trouble, thrashing the ball everywhere with disdain, and yet of the others even Pujara found life hard on this pitch. Can only conclude it’s because Sharma is playing shots, so Pant and Sundar will be dangerous.

Rohit has played a few false strokes and got away with them, but he's also played some wonderful shots and punished the bad ball. He's a great player.

Anybody that has layed the draw in this match will be feeling smug right now. Even at 11s I'd be a layer. Can't see this even going to a fifth day.

No indeed; my reckless gamble on the draw was ill conceived (and laid off earlier this morning).

Game looks to be tilting slightly back India’s way, as only two of our bowlers seem to have much control, and only one of those is a spinner.

OldKingCole

Mysticrose said:

Ydoethur, in what way has Brexit been a failure? It's difficult not to associate our vaccine success, for example, with our departure from the EU, who are stuck in a bureaucratic quagmire.

One swallow and all that. Yes GB's vaccination programme seems to have been a success, and as I posted yesterday I am no fan of Frau Dr van den Leyen, who doesn't, in spite (?because of) her good academic qualifications to be the nimblest thinker. There could be any number of reasons for Europes comparative failure, but being in the middle of a change of government probably didn't help.

So far, though, I have heard of no exporting or employment successes, only failures, or difficulties.

ydoethur

Mysticrose said:

Ydoethur, in what way has Brexit been a failure? It's difficult not to associate our vaccine success, for example, with our departure from the EU, who are stuck in a bureaucratic quagmire.

Like I said. It has added difficulty and delay to exports and therefore places us at a competitive disadvantage, plus undermining supply chains in Northern Ireland due to placing customs barriers between us and them. Heck, it’s even caused the sudden collapse of whole industries (shellfish).

True, it has had a major advantage in terms of allowing us to procure vaccines. And there will be others. The question is, can we over the long term create new markets to replace the ones that we’ve made less accessible, and will that be better than leaving the EU? That’s what a success looks like, and Truss’ razzmatazz aside, I’m not seeing it so far. Admittedly, early days, but so far we have no sign of meaningful access to a major market that we didn’t have in the EU.

Therefore - this being binary - Brexit is so far a failure on its own terms and the prospects for long term success look poor.

Which is roughly why I voted remain in the first place despite my disdain for the EU’s political structures.

Mysticrose

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

Because, when you’re predicting a Boris landslide way ahead of events, reminding myself that pretty much every similar prediction you have made before has turned out to be catastrophically wrong is deeply reassuring.

Well you're lying. I made one big mistake, which I'm not afraid to admit, in letting my heart lead my head: I thought Corbyn would perform in GE2019 as he had in GE2105. And I thought Boris was overrated as a performer, taking my lead from many pb.com threads to that effect, including from Mike.

But otherwise?

I correctly called Cameron's GE2015 win and won handsomely

I correctly called Brexit and won handsomely. I even got the 52-48 spot on

I correctly called the US Presidential elections 2020 and won handsomely. When everyone else was in flat panic in the early hours of Nov 4th I, along with Casino Royale, told everyone to back Biden. I came in at 261 Electoral College votes and scored one of my biggest ever betting successes. Go back and look at the posts.

So stop lying please. And stop being personally abusive.

ydoethur

This Stone guy looks pretty good. Never seen him bowl before, but he’s fast and accurate. Can see why England rate him.

If he, Archer and Wood can stay fully fit to be unleashed at the Gabba...

Smithers

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

ydoethur

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Sandpit

Nigelb said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

ydoethur said:

Andy_JS said:

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

The look of bewilderment in that long stand was priceless. But it’s simple, Virat. You played down the wrong line to an otherwise quite normal ball.

Bizarre so far. Nohit’s looked in no trouble, thrashing the ball everywhere with disdain, and yet of the others even Pujara found life hard on this pitch. Can only conclude it’s because Sharma is playing shots, so Pant and Sundar will be dangerous.

Rohit has played a few false strokes and got away with them, but he's also played some wonderful shots and punished the bad ball. He's a great player.

Anybody that has layed the draw in this match will be feeling smug right now. Even at 11s I'd be a layer. Can't see this even going to a fifth day.

No indeed; my reckless gamble on the draw was ill conceived (and laid off earlier this morning).

Game looks to be tilting slightly back India’s way, as only two of our bowlers seem to have much control, and only one of those is a spinner.

We need to break this partnership, preferably by getting Rohit. They’re looking far too comfortable.

ydoethur

Did I just hear an Indian commentator praising Root’s captaincy?

ydoethur

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

ydoethur said:

Andy_JS said:

Commentator: one of the great stands from Kohli.

The look of bewilderment in that long stand was priceless. But it’s simple, Virat. You played down the wrong line to an otherwise quite normal ball.

Bizarre so far. Nohit’s looked in no trouble, thrashing the ball everywhere with disdain, and yet of the others even Pujara found life hard on this pitch. Can only conclude it’s because Sharma is playing shots, so Pant and Sundar will be dangerous.

Rohit has played a few false strokes and got away with them, but he's also played some wonderful shots and punished the bad ball. He's a great player.

Anybody that has layed the draw in this match will be feeling smug right now. Even at 11s I'd be a layer. Can't see this even going to a fifth day.

No indeed; my reckless gamble on the draw was ill conceived (and laid off earlier this morning).

Game looks to be tilting slightly back India’s way, as only two of our bowlers seem to have much control, and only one of those is a spinner.

We need to break this partnership, preferably by getting Rohit. They’re looking far too comfortable.

Thump. He certainly is. The only way he gets out here is hit wicket.

Andy_JS

ydoethur said:

Did I just hear an Indian commentator praising Root’s captaincy?

Sunil Gavaskar is usually quite a neutral observer, if it was him.

IanB2

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

Because, when you’re predicting a Boris landslide way ahead of events, reminding myself that pretty much every similar prediction you have made before has turned out to be catastrophically wrong is deeply reassuring.

Well you're lying. I made one big mistake, which I'm not afraid to admit, in letting my heart lead my head: I thought Corbyn would perform in GE2019 as he had in GE2105. And I thought Boris was overrated as a performer, taking my lead from many pb.com threads to that effect, including from Mike.

But otherwise?

I correctly called Cameron's GE2015 win and won handsomely

I correctly called Brexit and won handsomely. I even got the 52-48 spot on

I correctly called the US Presidential elections 2020 and won handsomely. When everyone else was in flat panic in the early hours of Nov 4th I, along with Casino Royale, told everyone to back Biden. I came in at 261 Electoral College votes and scored one of my biggest ever betting successes. Go back and look at the posts.

So stop lying please. And stop being personally abusive.

That you get “every” prediction wrong was an exaggeration, not a lie. The only lies I can see above are that I derided anyone for backing Ossoff, and that David’s lead article is badly written.

I also note that your account was created here in 2018.

Mysticrose

I think one of the points for me in this prediction of a Boris landslide, to get back to the issues, is that the tories are currently c. 4-6% ahead of Labour. For a mid-term governing party to be ahead like that in the midst of the biggest crisis since WWII is pretty astonishing, really.

I just cannot see how Labour are going to turn this around. What are they offering that's going to drag voters back to their fold? Or are they going to persist in petty point scoring in parliament? What works in a court of law, Sir Keir, ain't gonna cut the mustard with the electorate.

Foxy

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

ydoethur

This is the sort of thing I meant by extra difficulty and delay:

Post-Brexit trade: 'If you don't speak French, you're stuffed'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55993220

Mysticrose

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

Because, when you’re predicting a Boris landslide way ahead of events, reminding myself that pretty much every similar prediction you have made before has turned out to be catastrophically wrong is deeply reassuring.

Well you're lying. I made one big mistake, which I'm not afraid to admit, in letting my heart lead my head: I thought Corbyn would perform in GE2019 as he had in GE2105. And I thought Boris was overrated as a performer, taking my lead from many pb.com threads to that effect, including from Mike.

But otherwise?

I correctly called Cameron's GE2015 win and won handsomely

I correctly called Brexit and won handsomely. I even got the 52-48 spot on

I correctly called the US Presidential elections 2020 and won handsomely. When everyone else was in flat panic in the early hours of Nov 4th I, along with Casino Royale, told everyone to back Biden. I came in at 261 Electoral College votes and scored one of my biggest ever betting successes. Go back and look at the posts.

So stop lying please. And stop being personally abusive.

That you get “every” prediction wrong was an exaggeration, not a lie. The only lies I can see above are that I derided anyone for backing Ossoff, and that David’s lead article is badly written.

Fine, retraction accepted. But for the record I never said David's article was "badly written." I praised it but said it could have been tighter, which is undeniably the case. I'm a journalist as well as author so I guess I see these things. I apologise if that is irksome to you.

Foxy

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

TheJezziah

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

IanB2

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

IanB2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Good points David although forgive me for repeating that it would have been better tighter (2/3rds the length). Difficult to disagree with your overview.

I notice that freight traffic across the channel appears to have returned to normal, suggesting that Brexit is smoothing out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

A success of vaccination and a success of Brexit: Boris Johnson appears to have the Midas touch.

I continue to believe that he will win a landslide at the next General Election, which may come before 2024, and that the tories will perform relatively well this May.

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Since you told us that Corbyn would come close in 2019 and that Trump was a shoo-in for 2020, I guess you are hoping for third time lucky? Instead of suggesting others trim their posts, perhaps you should trim your username?

Come now that's dishonest of you. I said Trump was a shoo-in back before the pandemic struck. Without covid, he would have almost certainly won.

From spring last year I resoundingly backed the Dems to win and put my money where my keyboard was, winning very handsomely on several bets including Jon Ossoff. I was I believe the first on here to tip him and was derided (by you iirc) for it.

No, you don’t recall correctly. Not least because I had money on him myself, some of it placed as soon as the market went up.

My guess is that ‘mystic’ is intended to be deeply ironic?

Why are you doing this?

Because, when you’re predicting a Boris landslide way ahead of events, reminding myself that pretty much every similar prediction you have made before has turned out to be catastrophically wrong is deeply reassuring.

Well you're lying. I made one big mistake, which I'm not afraid to admit, in letting my heart lead my head: I thought Corbyn would perform in GE2019 as he had in GE2105. And I thought Boris was overrated as a performer, taking my lead from many pb.com threads to that effect, including from Mike.

But otherwise?

I correctly called Cameron's GE2015 win and won handsomely

I correctly called Brexit and won handsomely. I even got the 52-48 spot on

I correctly called the US Presidential elections 2020 and won handsomely. When everyone else was in flat panic in the early hours of Nov 4th I, along with Casino Royale, told everyone to back Biden. I came in at 261 Electoral College votes and scored one of my biggest ever betting successes. Go back and look at the posts.

So stop lying please. And stop being personally abusive.

That you get “every” prediction wrong was an exaggeration, not a lie. The only lies I can see above are that I derided anyone for backing Ossoff, and that David’s lead article is badly written.

Fine, retraction accepted. But for the record I never said David's article was "badly written." I praised it but said it could have been tighter, which is undeniably the case. I'm a journalist as well as author so I guess I see these things. I apologise if that is irksome to you.

The way you routinely and repetitively have a go at lead writers, not because they can’t write but because you can’t be arsed to read more than a couple of a paragraphs, and when you never contribute anything yourself, is more than irksome, it is plain rude.

Mysticrose

ydoethur said:

This is the sort of thing I meant by extra difficulty and delay:

Post-Brexit trade: 'If you don't speak French, you're stuffed'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55993220

Slightly strange that Plummer's BBC piece is somewhat contradicted 3 hours later by Faisal Islam's: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56044610

???

Anyway, I must go. Not my most pleasant experience on here this morning. If it continues I shall absent myself in future.

I'm not a cheerleader for Boris Foxy. I'm a left-leaner. But, and I realise this is really irritating to his detractors, the UK's vaccine rollout is a stunning, stellar, staggering, brilliant, outstanding and astounding success. Like it (I hope) or lump it. It's true.

ydoethur

Some rather ill-informed commentary in the press last night (the Sun and iNews) about schools.

A few points to make:

1) 8th March is not, and never has been, the date when schools were due to go back. It is the date before which they are definitely not going back, which is rather different. There is currently no change in government policy on this.

2) Yes, the DfE wants all schools to go back at once. This is because they are useless tossers who want to justify their worthless existence (or, in many cases, that they hate their children). The government as a whole is a lot more cautious, and it is expected that on the 22nd it will be announced that schools are returning in phases.

3) Nobody (apart from a few actual nutters) now seems to be disputing that keeping schools open leads to higher infection rates, which is a rare outbreak of sanity. That does mean, therefore, that we have to accept with a reasonable vaccine immunity horizon only weeks away, it would be bloody stupid to reopen them too soon and undo all that work.

So the expectation among those both intelligent and knowledgeable is that there will be phased reopenings announced a week on Monday, starting with younger primary school aged children.

Of course, the government has in this pandemic tended to do the smart thing only after trying and discarding all other options. But we will see.

More here:

https://www.ft.com/content/653431db-7275-4d31-8fdd-676766c721f7

https://www.tes.com/news/pms-pledge-monday-school-opening-update-was-mistake

Mysticrose

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

This is a very amusing, and quite extraordinary, post Jezziah.

I may take a leaf out of your book and sit back and enjoy the spectacle of Starmer's Labour continuing to perform so dismally.

I am convinced the tories are going to win handsomely next election. I'd offer IanB2 a sizeable bet but there's no advantage to either of us in tying up capital for the next c. 3 years.

ydoethur

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

Greetings. It has been a while.

Will you now accept he was not the Jezziah, he was just a very naughty boy?

Dura_Ace

Mysticrose said:

If it continues I shall absent myself in future.

Just come back with another name. That's typically been a strong move for "authors" and "journalists".

RochdalePioneers

Charles said:

FPT

FrancisUrquhart said:

Brexit lorry chaos avoided as freight flows 'back to normal'

Internal figures seen by the BBC show outbound roll-on roll-off lorry traffic for Great Britain for the month so far at 98% of last February's levels.

Inbound traffic is at 99% of last year's levels.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56044610

It's almost as ifJanuary's figures weren't comparable - not least because the French closed the border for a few days.

Will we get an FT article on this? Or will they focus on Q1 figures being down 25%+?

The figures in January were being compared to a normal January - which is lighter than other months. The task now is to dig under the headline statistic into reality. "99% of inbound". OK, but last year that included traffic heading to Ireland, which largely now bypasses the UK altogether.

So of more relevance is the loading on inbound and outbound trucks. If you have a truck half full and only a couple of items then that won't pose as big a customs problem, but its an existential problem for the hauliers as they have been saying throughout.

Then we have the phasing of restrictions. Our government insisted on 3rd party status with no exemptions, but was incapable of applying those rules from day 1 because shit. So they phase in on various dates - the requirement for a veterinary certificates for Chocolate Digestives kicks in at the back end of this month, a huge slug of restrictions 1st April, others through June into July.

Charles & FU also seem to be wilfully dismissing the clear pain all of this is costing business in time and costs - the exact same type of red tape that they were always against. We all hope that the system normalises a new working solution so that at least some stuff transitions the border without too many problems - my own job relies on that. But its not a "success" when the end result is that we will have set back business red tape by 30 years.

DougSeal

I think the below is what Hancock was (in part) referring to when he spoke of treatments on top of vaccines this morning. I think therapeutics will be the scientific focus this year. It also seems like zero Covid is now not an option being considered which, logically, would point to some form of easing of restrictions sooner rather than later.

https://twitter.com/ScienceMagazine/status/1354685686474039296

ydoethur

Dura_Ace said:

Mysticrose said:

If it continues I shall absent myself in future.

Just come back with another name. That's typically been a strong move for "authors" and "journalists".

And a new occupation.

We haven’t had ‘verbal agreement stamper’ yet.

Mysticrose

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

Great posters are those with whom I disagree politically but who can have a serious-minded discussion without being personally abusive. Roger has contributed nothing to the discourse this morning. Zero. Ian has retracted most of his comment, which I accept.

Ydoethur is a good example, as evidenced below, of someone with whom you can disagree (hugely, perhaps) and still respect.

state_go_away

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

RochdalePioneers

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

Fantastic to see The Jezziah back on the site. And great to see that you haven't copied Bastani and fucked off back to the Tories!

I'm not SNP. I don't want to see an endless SNP government. But my two votes - and those of my wife and my brother and my sister in law, all of us migrants to Scotland since their last election - will be for the SNP. As Sean Connery once said, "its time for a change in Scotland"...

state_go_away

ydoethur said:

Some rather ill-informed commentary in the press last night (the Sun and iNews) about schools.

A few points to make:

1) 8th March is not, and never has been, the date when schools were due to go back. It is the date before which they are definitely not going back, which is rather different. There is currently no change in government policy on this.

2) Yes, the DfE wants all schools to go back at once. This is because they are useless tossers who want to justify their worthless existence (or, in many cases, that they hate their children). The government as a whole is a lot more cautious, and it is expected that on the 22nd it will be announced that schools are returning in phases.

3) Nobody (apart from a few actual nutters) now seems to be disputing that keeping schools open leads to higher infection rates, which is a rare outbreak of sanity. That does mean, therefore, that we have to accept with a reasonable vaccine immunity horizon only weeks away, it would be bloody stupid to reopen them too soon and undo all that work.

So the expectation among those both intelligent and knowledgeable is that there will be phased reopenings announced a week on Monday, starting with younger primary school aged children.

Of course, the government has in this pandemic tended to do the smart thing only after trying and discarding all other options. But we will see.

More here:

https://www.ft.com/content/653431db-7275-4d31-8fdd-676766c721f7

https://www.tes.com/news/pms-pledge-monday-school-opening-update-was-mistake

Schools and universities need to open asap . With the current vaccination coverage it is hardly likely they would cause the NHS t be overwhelmed. Doing far more harm than good being shut at the moment

rottenborough

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Very good to hear this. It needs to be banged home repeatedly now by ministers with a serious start made on kicking back against the talk from some science people and public health zealots about elimination of covid.

We have the learn to live with it in the longer term. Maybe annual jabs, but otherwise we live with it.

Andy_JS

"A generation of young children have been told to be fearful of close contact with others. Make no mistake - we won't be able to snap our fingers and erase these deep-seated changes."

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-will-the-recency-effect-shape-opinion-on-our-leaders-handling-of-coronavirus-12216278

ydoethur

state_go_away said:

ydoethur said:

Some rather ill-informed commentary in the press last night (the Sun and iNews) about schools.

A few points to make:

1) 8th March is not, and never has been, the date when schools were due to go back. It is the date before which they are definitely not going back, which is rather different. There is currently no change in government policy on this.

2) Yes, the DfE wants all schools to go back at once. This is because they are useless tossers who want to justify their worthless existence (or, in many cases, that they hate their children). The government as a whole is a lot more cautious, and it is expected that on the 22nd it will be announced that schools are returning in phases.

3) Nobody (apart from a few actual nutters) now seems to be disputing that keeping schools open leads to higher infection rates, which is a rare outbreak of sanity. That does mean, therefore, that we have to accept with a reasonable vaccine immunity horizon only weeks away, it would be bloody stupid to reopen them too soon and undo all that work.

So the expectation among those both intelligent and knowledgeable is that there will be phased reopenings announced a week on Monday, starting with younger primary school aged children.

Of course, the government has in this pandemic tended to do the smart thing only after trying and discarding all other options. But we will see.

More here:

https://www.ft.com/content/653431db-7275-4d31-8fdd-676766c721f7

https://www.tes.com/news/pms-pledge-monday-school-opening-update-was-mistake

Schools and universities need to open asap . With the current vaccination coverage it is hardly likely they would cause the NHS t be overwhelmed. Doing far more harm than good being shut at the moment

Yeeees. I don’t think anyone is disputing that they need to be reopened ASAP.

The point is that ‘asap’ is when we have sufficient numbers vaccinated to keep hospitalisation low. Otherwise, everything we have done up to now is effectively wasted.

Which may be the 8th March, but is more likely to be the 22nd on current rates.

DougSeal

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

IanB2

RochdalePioneers said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

Fantastic to see The Jezziah back on the site. And great to see that you haven't copied Bastani and fucked off back to the Tories!

I'm not SNP. I don't want to see an endless SNP government. But my two votes - and those of my wife and my brother and my sister in law, all of us migrants to Scotland since their last election - will be for the SNP. As Sean Connery once said, "its time for a change in Scotland"...

The SNP are lucky in being able to campaign for change while being the longtime incumbents.

ThomasNashe

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

TheJezziah

ydoethur said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Greetings. It has been a while.

Will you now accept he was not the Jezziah, he was just a very naughty boy?

Comrade.

The crucifixion is far from the end of the story, a few hundred years of competing against lions in the games and then it is our time to shine!

IanB2

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

I never knew that Boris had a twin brother.

ydoethur

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

ydoethur

TheJezziah said:

TBH anything who thinks Labour is pointless currently is a top poster and would be a huge loss

ydoethur said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Greetings. It has been a while.

Will you now accept he was not the Jezziah, he was just a very naughty boy?

Comrade.

The crucifixion is far from the end of the story, a few hundred years of competing against lions in the games and then it is our time to shine!

*whistles*
Always look on the bright side of life...

state_go_away

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

Its shouldn't really be a hugely positive or negative thing for Boris to engage in Mr Ben like activities like this. People on the whole though probably think it fits Boris and therefore its a slight positive for him. The committed lefties dont like it probably because it is a bit effective

ydoethur

IanB2 said:

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

I never knew that Boris had a twin brother.

Perhaps he’s a half brother Stan fathered on that au pair?

Foxy

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Not just flu, but also a lot of other viruses such as norovirus. I think it won't just be young children, but a lot of adults wary of crowds etc for some time to come.

https://twitter.com/NicolaMedical/status/1359810781295042565?s=19

IanB2

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

All of the parties have got away from their roots. Tories are no longer rooted in the educated middle classes, nor Liberals in the rural nonconfirmist fringes. Only the Greens remain rooted in their original base of younger eco-warriers.

RochdalePioneers

Rereading back through TheJezbollah's post, its extraordinary the passage where he says he's never had so much fun attacking the democratically elected leader over polls. The "Labour Left" as he self-identifies actively want the party to lose. Which is their literal problem.

The hard left are a protest group. They want poor people to suffer so that they can entertain themselves protesting on behalf of the poor. Should Labour actually be elected and sweep away the ills and inequalities of the world then Jezbollah and his cult would have no reason to exist.

Foxy

Mysticrose said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

Great posters are those with whom I disagree politically but who can have a serious-minded discussion without being personally abusive. Roger has contributed nothing to the discourse this morning. Zero. Ian has retracted most of his comment, which I accept.

Ydoethur is a good example, as evidenced below, of someone with whom you can disagree (hugely, perhaps) and still respect.

My Plot was to sneak in a few more Guido Fawkes puns...

ydoethur

Rahane now in on the act.

Dangerous for England. These two can score quick and score heavy, they’re capable of batting us out of the match today.

Edit - has anyone seen that two Gloucestershire developed players are on the England coaching staff? Jon Lewis, bowling coach and Chris Read, wicketkeeping coach. And I think Chris Taylor has been their fielding coach at times.

DavidL

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Their roots are surely in the public sector unions and has been increasingly for most of the last 20 years. This is where Union power is still relevant, where their money comes from and where there is still an organisation. Their focus has inevitably switched from wanting that state to help the less well off to rather helping itself and those it employs. The challenge is to extend the electoral pool beyond this group sufficiently to obtain a majority. That is not so easy.

ydoethur

Foxy said:

Mysticrose said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

Great posters are those with whom I disagree politically but who can have a serious-minded discussion without being personally abusive. Roger has contributed nothing to the discourse this morning. Zero. Ian has retracted most of his comment, which I accept.

Ydoethur is a good example, as evidenced below, of someone with whom you can disagree (hugely, perhaps) and still respect.

My Plot was to sneak in a few more Guido Fawkes puns...

I’m keeping my powder dry at the moment.

IanB2

RochdalePioneers said:

Rereading back through TheJezbollah's post, its extraordinary the passage where he says he's never had so much fun attacking the democratically elected leader over polls. The "Labour Left" as he self-identifies actively want the party to lose. Which is their literal problem.

The hard left are a protest group. They want poor people to suffer so that they can entertain themselves protesting on behalf of the poor. Should Labour actually be elected and sweep away the ills and inequalities of the world then Jezbollah and his cult would have no reason to exist.

Should Labour actually be elected they will never be able to sweep away said ills to the left's satisfaction, which provides the best purpose of all.

DougSeal

rottenborough said:

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Very good to hear this. It needs to be banged home repeatedly now by ministers with a serious start made on kicking back against the talk from some science people and public health zealots about elimination of covid.

We have the learn to live with it in the longer term. Maybe annual jabs, but otherwise we live with it.

Gradual easing followed by vaccinations and better therapies. There is no choice really. Either endless lockdown that, ultimately, will either collapse in the Summer, or cause irretrievable societal and economic harm, or immediate end to lockdown which will kill thousands and overwhelm the health service. Gradual easing as vaccines are rolled out, therapies come on line and (whisper it) a greater degree of population immunity is seeded is, to my mind, the only option we have.

Forget the EU, the Government have set themselves up for a barny with China. You can’t do that with a population without an education and, by most metrics other than freedom of expression, is less free than the Chinese is at the moment.

My daily reminder also that, globally, cases are dropping quite rapidly now also. What is happening in India defies explanation.

IanB2

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Mysticrose said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

Great posters are those with whom I disagree politically but who can have a serious-minded discussion without being personally abusive. Roger has contributed nothing to the discourse this morning. Zero. Ian has retracted most of his comment, which I accept.

Ydoethur is a good example, as evidenced below, of someone with whom you can disagree (hugely, perhaps) and still respect.

My Plot was to sneak in a few more Guido Fawkes puns...

I’m keeping my powder dry at the moment.

A Flemingly sensible decision.

ydoethur

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Their roots are surely in the public sector unions and has been increasingly for most of the last 20 years. This is where Union power is still relevant, where their money comes from and where there is still an organisation. Their focus has inevitably switched from wanting that state to help the less well off to rather helping itself and those it employs. The challenge is to extend the electoral pool beyond this group sufficiently to obtain a majority. That is not so easy.

That’s why they need new roots.

They’re reminding me of the protectionists under Derby from 1846 to 1867. Just about big enough to always be in sight of power, due to their strength in the counties, but never quite able to broaden their appeal enough to win power because of their weaknesses in the boroughs.

ThomasNashe

Foxy said:

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Not just flu, but also a lot of other viruses such as norovirus. I think it won't just be young children, but a lot of adults wary of crowds etc for some time to come.

https://twitter.com/NicolaMedical/status/1359810781295042565?s=19

I’d normally have expected to have had at least two heavy colds by this stage of winter. It’s been the one upside of all this that I haven’t had a cold for a year now.

Foxy

state_go_away said:

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

Its shouldn't really be a hugely positive or negative thing for Boris to engage in Mr Ben like activities like this. People on the whole though probably think it fits Boris and therefore its a slight positive for him. The committed lefties dont like it probably because it is a bit effective

I think Johnsons only real skill is such amusing photo stunts. He is certainly a campaigning genius, it's the complete absence of integrity and competence that makes him so unsuitable a PM.

To keep the Plebeian support, they must be given bread and circuses, and he delivers the circuses. I am not convinced that Starmer can deliver either.

ydoethur

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Not just flu, but also a lot of other viruses such as norovirus. I think it won't just be young children, but a lot of adults wary of crowds etc for some time to come.

https://twitter.com/NicolaMedical/status/1359810781295042565?s=19

I’d normally have expected to have had at least two heavy colds by this stage of winter. It’s been the one upside of all this that I haven’t had a cold for a year now.

You lucky git. I’ve still had one.

TheJezziah

RochdalePioneers said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Fantastic to see The Jezziah back on the site. And great to see that you haven't copied Bastani and fucked off back to the Tories!

I'm not SNP. I don't want to see an endless SNP government. But my two votes - and those of my wife and my brother and my sister in law, all of us migrants to Scotland since their last election - will be for the SNP. As Sean Connery once said, "its time for a change in Scotland"...

I'm not and never have been a Tory, single mother, miner grandad, even though I am not responsible for their vote and it isn't really a reflection on me most of my family isn't Tory either, I have heard of a relative voting Tory from family I have only seen when people have died.

TBH I'm fairly sure Bastani hasn't either but quite frankly we seem to be somewhat on the same side here so I don't see why either of us would care, Bastani has no real sway on Labour and you want to vote for their opponents. Arguably the SNP would be more welcoming to left wingers like him than Labour, I'd feel a lot more welcome in the SNP.

I've always been anti nationalism (no real problem with flags or patriotism) against breaking up into small pieces whether it was the EU or the UK but I'd be tempted to vote SNP next election if I was up in Scotland and yes in a referendum just to get away from both Labour and the Tories.

ydoethur

England’s outfielding has again been superb. Spectacular saves from Burns and now Broad.

Still no sign of getting Rohit though. He looks in no trouble at all.

No_Offence_Alan

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Getting unions to represent Amazon and call centre workers would be a good start.

RochdalePioneers

TheJezziah said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Fantastic to see The Jezziah back on the site. And great to see that you haven't copied Bastani and fucked off back to the Tories!

I'm not SNP. I don't want to see an endless SNP government. But my two votes - and those of my wife and my brother and my sister in law, all of us migrants to Scotland since their last election - will be for the SNP. As Sean Connery once said, "its time for a change in Scotland"...

I'm not and never have been a Tory, single mother, miner grandad, even though I am not responsible for their vote and it isn't really a reflection on me most of my family isn't Tory either, I have heard of a relative voting Tory from family I have only seen when people have died.

TBH I'm fairly sure Bastani hasn't either but quite frankly we seem to be somewhat on the same side here so I don't see why either of us would care, Bastani has no real sway on Labour and you want to vote for their opponents. Arguably the SNP would be more welcoming to left wingers like him than Labour, I'd feel a lot more welcome in the SNP.

I've always been anti nationalism (no real problem with flags or patriotism) against breaking up into small pieces whether it was the EU or the UK but I'd be tempted to vote SNP next election if I was up in Scotland and yes in a referendum just to get away from both Labour and the Tories.

Genuinely pleased you are back - I made several enquiries after you when you disappeared.

My point about Bastani is that whilst he displayed foaming-dog-fever about the Dear Leader, he started off as a Tory. And now that he continues to run his bullshit "news" company baiting the hard left, he has quit the party he claims to be agitating for.

When the likes of me used to point out the loony left were a bunch of trot entryists trying to destroy the party, Bastani was a prime example.

As for Scotland, my (ex Labour Councillor) sister-in-law watched the Labour leadership hustings on STV the other day. She can't believe the barrel has been scraped this low and produced two Godawful candidates who seem to be determined to make Richard Leonard look wise and charismatic.

Labour have no purpose any more - thats why they have sunk.
The hard left want purity knowing it means blissful opposition
The centre want to triangulate and show that they are here to hear
The right want to do Blairism redux but don't have anyone in the ranks convincing enough.

Final point. Your problem mate is that most of the people your wing of the party claim to represent do not share your values. They are physically repelled by the left's views on nation, on culture, on ethics. Quite how you have managed to become this badly detached from your voters I don't know.

TheJezziah

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

I don't want to bang on about Corbyn... but you know... my username...

In 2017 in almost all these red wall places Labour put on votes, in a lot of them less than the Tories. Labour at this point had things to say about gig economy workers as well.

One very real problem I wonder about is if all those Labour MPs who helped spread the message that the Labour party (at that time) hated the country, hated soldiers loved the enemy etc. salted the ground for themselves and helped to an extent to exacerbate the culture war they now can't fight. If you look at the vote share in Northern England red wall constituencies if has been going down for a long time (with probably some of those reasons not being realistically fixable) 2017 was the one deviation from a long downward trend.

Realistically nobody will actually be interested in this data point because Corbyn led the party at the time and that would get in the way of the Labour right doing their whole 80's re-enactment thing..

DavidL

ydoethur said:

England’s outfielding has again been superb. Spectacular saves from Burns and now Broad.

Still no sign of getting Rohit though. He looks in no trouble at all.

Agree about the fielding but these runs are going to take a lot of matching as this pitch breaks up. A very good toss to win. Again. I wish they would produce pitches that are more even for both sides.

DougSeal

Foxy said:

state_go_away said:

Good to see Matt Hancock saying Covid could be treated like flu soon especially given we statistically don't have any flu at the moment just covid.

Not just flu, but also a lot of other viruses such as norovirus. I think it won't just be young children, but a lot of adults wary of crowds etc for some time to come.

https://twitter.com/NicolaMedical/status/1359810781295042565?s=19

I agree but the experience of the 1918-20 pandemic should be borne in mind. In the US a fear of large crowds led to college football games being cancelled, while a number of high-profile baseball players died after contracting the Spanish Flu - Babe Ruth reportedly contracted before making a recovery. Within a couple of years though people were back and in greater numbers - demand fuelled the rise of the professional NFL. This year much will depend on what happens at the Olympics. It’s also going to be interesting to watch numbers in Florida in the next few weeks.

Sandpit

No_Offence_Alan said:

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Getting unions to represent Amazon and call centre workers would be a good start.

I’d there’s one thing a Labour Party should be standing for, it’s the rights of those with insecure, low-paid and increasingly self-employed jobs.

Omnium

ThomasNashe said:

Foxy said:

Morning. I see BoZo's biggest fan is up with the lark.

Personally, I cannot stand the slovenly buffoon with a penchant for fancy dress photo opportunities. Its like watching the Generation Game at times, and sometimes worse.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1360345802934267906?s=19

The one on the left has a better hairstyle.

I rather like the picture of Boris on the right.

ydoethur

Sandpit said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Getting unions to represent Amazon and call centre workers would be a good start.

I’d there’s one thing a Labour Party should be standing for, it’s the rights of those with insecure, low-paid and increasingly self-employed jobs.

Corbyn made noises on zero hours contracts.

The problem was he didn’t really understand them. So his proposals for a blanket ban would have created at least as many problems as they solved.

Foxy

TheJezziah said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

I don't want to bang on about Corbyn... but you know... my username...

In 2017 in almost all these red wall places Labour put on votes, in a lot of them less than the Tories. Labour at this point had things to say about gig economy workers as well.

One very real problem I wonder about is if all those Labour MPs who helped spread the message that the Labour party (at that time) hated the country, hated soldiers loved the enemy etc. salted the ground for themselves and helped to an extent to exacerbate the culture war they now can't fight. If you look at the vote share in Northern England red wall constituencies if has been going down for a long time (with probably some of those reasons not being realistically fixable) 2017 was the one deviation from a long downward trend.

Realistically nobody will actually be interested in this data point because Corbyn led the party at the time and that would get in the way of the Labour right doing their whole 80's re-enactment thing..

Yes, it was noteworthy that in 2017 Corbyn's vote held up well in traditional Labour areas, indeed gained a few seats in the NW. Clearly not the anathema he became in 2019, where not just Brexit, but also the leader went down badly on the doorstep.

Labour Lefties need to understand that Corbyn is yesterday's man, and Labour centrists need to recapture that enthusiasm that change is possible. "Fun with Flags" is anathema to those suspicious of nationalism, and just looks phoney to nationalists. Labour will not win by aping the Tories. If that is the manifesto then voters will go for the real thing.

Sandpit

ydoethur said:

Foxy said:

Mysticrose said:

Foxy said:

ydoethur said:

Smithers said:

I joined this site hoping it would be different from Guido Fawkes.

I see that Roger and IanB2 are doing their level best to disabuse me of that.

Are you suggesting there is a Staines on this site’s reputation?

Roger and IanB2 are great Guys.

Great posters are those with whom I disagree politically but who can have a serious-minded discussion without being personally abusive. Roger has contributed nothing to the discourse this morning. Zero. Ian has retracted most of his comment, which I accept.

Ydoethur is a good example, as evidenced below, of someone with whom you can disagree (hugely, perhaps) and still respect.

My Plot was to sneak in a few more Guido Fawkes puns...

I’m keeping my powder dry at the moment.

Your ravings on the subject are driving me to drink.

DougSeal

Anecdata. Every single one of my Zoom or Teams calls with an employer client in the last two weeks has had at least one participant logging in from the office.

ydoethur

DougSeal said:

Anecdata. Every single one of my Zoom or Teams calls with an employer client in the last two weeks has had at least one participant logging in from the office.

Must be difficult to do soliciting at a distance.

(sorry, couldn’t resist )

Sandpit

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

ydoethur said:

DougSeal said:

TheJezziah said:

Mysticrose said:

As for Labour, they appear to me to be lost. What is the point of Labour?

Narrow minded thinking is your problem there (I don't mean that offensively) you have to look at things from a different angle.

For the Labour right they have a 1980s Labour re-enactment thing going on, time of their lives. There might be a few quarrels about who is Blair (the clever play is claiming to be John Smith and not dying IMO) but mostly they have never had so much fun.

Compare the grumpy angry faces when Labour were leading in polls under Corbyn to the spring in their step now, enough to put a smile on even the most hardened leftists face (can confirm here)

The Labour left, well just some of it maybe can only talk for myself, politically I've never had so much fun in my life. Watching the amount of excuses and nuance come out for various polling results from people who previously had no time for even polls which showed small Labour leads is incredibly satisfying. I've never cared about best PM polling before but watching don't know catch up with Starmer as Johnson speeds on past it is almost as good as watching the football.

The SNP, my god the SNP. We still have some SNP posters on here I assume?

Own up, you guys either picked Keir Starmer or somehow advise him?

Whilst staying within the bounds of realism I'm not sure an SNP supporter could hope for much more from the current Labour party.

The Greens seem likely to gain from any rightward shift in Labour the same way they suffered from a leftward one.

The Tories can do whatever they like, what is not to like as a Tory? (don't give me the strong opposition line, I was here when Labour were leading in the polls, they don't want strong opposition)

The Lib Dems are the only party not really getting anything out of Labour but I'm not sure they could in any possible situation, even more pointless than Labour.

So the Labour party are providing a bit of enjoyment for everyone they can be, can you really ask for much more than that?

The Labour Party, for some time, have needed to get back to their roots. While to preserve the Red Wall I don’t think the Tories will prune back much employment protection legislation - the Working Time Directive and TUPE being the main legislation deriving entirely from EU directives as opposed to UK Acts of Parliament and the former has been in their sights since it was implemented, The employment law workaround that Uber, Amazon, Pimlico Plumbers et al have found is to make everyone self employed contractors. Workers in the gig economy are an increasingly exploited class. That unfairness is something that can resonate with Joe Voter more than the culture war trap the right increasingly exploit to great advantage.

The Labour Party’s whole problem is that their roots - highly unionised industrial workers based in medium sized communities - have gone. And they are not coming back. Socialism and social democracy were both very much twentieth century phenomena, and have now failed and been discarded.

What they need to do is find new roots. That’s Starmer’s real challenge.

Getting unions to represent Amazon and call centre workers would be a good start.

I’d there’s one thing a Labour Party should be standing for, it’s the rights of those with insecure, low-paid and increasingly self-employed jobs.

Corbyn made noises on zero hours contracts.

The problem was he didn’t really understand them. So his proposals for a blanket ban would have created at least as many problems as they solved.

Yes, he’d hear a bad story from a warehouse worker or taxi driver, and forget about the millions of students and people between jobs, for whom a causal job in a bar is important to keep them afloat.