Whatever the law says, as soon as grandparents, aunts etc are vaccinated, they're going to be back hugging their relatives.
Utter madness. Ministers need to listen to Tory backbenchers on this. Return to something akin to normal after the vast majority of vulnerable are vaccinated. Normal once every adult has had a jab.
Some of the lines in that article are brilliant.
"It has repercussions for the scale of any reopening. Restaurants, pubs and offices will all need to be Covid-secure."
Great, I thought we did that months ago. Job done.
"A government source said "the more restrictions we have in place like social distancing rules the more we can do in terms of easing"
What doublethink horseshit is that?
Utterly bonkers isn't it.
It is.
Rather like saying, “as long as you agree to stay two metres apart, limit numbers to six people including your own household, and wear masks, you can have parties again”.
If I was allowed to have six people round to my house for a sesh I would be absolutely over the moon.
Well it would be five assuming you live alone, otherwise it would be four or fewer. And two metres apart? Sure, you probably wouldn’t actually follow those rules but then...
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
I believe all should be equal before the law. Most think of that as that it shouldn't matter who you are you will still get prosecuted if you commit a crime. I however also think that means that a crime done against me should be taken as seriously as an identical crime in identical circumstances against someone else. This is why I object to certain things being thought of aggravating over and above means that the crime committed against me even if equal in circumstances is less serious.
I am also one that believes in innocent till proven guilty, where a crime is treated differently on the assertion of the victim shifts that. The police no longer for example have to prove its racially motivated, instead I now have to show it wasn't. We had this with the victim must always be believed in paedophilia cases and that has resulted in many witch hunts. Remember Carl Beech. By all means take it seriously and look for evidence but you have to actually find evidence
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Ha! Indeed.
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Ha! Indeed.
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
Any ideas?
If Boris doesn't seize the mantle, Mark Harper is going to start looking like the PM in waiting quite quickly
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Ha! Indeed.
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
Any ideas?
The Howe quote about being savaged by a dead sheep comes to mind about Starmer.
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Jabs are easier than having the argument in the first place, and in any event they make sense on their own. Flu kills off 17,000 people in an average Winter and, whilst we can't be sure this early in the game, Covid is likely to be with us as a chronic seasonal illness long-term, and probably one deadlier than flu, at least for some years.
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Jabs are easier than having the argument in the first place, and in any event they make sense on their own. Flu kills off 17,000 people in an average Winter and, whilst we can't be sure this early in the game, Covid is likely to be with us as a chronic seasonal illness long-term, and probably one deadlier than flu, at least for some years.
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
For those that want it, sure.
Lots won't. My theory is that a treatment is more likely to supplant endless vaccines.
And politicians need to find some backbone. I suspect they will when Covid isn't front page anymore...
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Jabs are easier than having the argument in the first place, and in any event they make sense on their own. Flu kills off 17,000 people in an average Winter and, whilst we can't be sure this early in the game, Covid is likely to be with us as a chronic seasonal illness long-term, and probably one deadlier than flu, at least for some years.
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
Absolutely. Shouldn't even need to be a day off work. Make it routine and your pharmacy/supermarket etc ought to be able to give everyone their annual booster Covid/Flu shot.
The cost of a shot for everyone ought to be peanuts compared to the risk of going through any of this nonsense again and should help reduce the strain of flu etc annually on the NHS. Value for money and we should have vaccination manufacturing domestically anyway and this gives that manufacturing something to do annually to stay viable.
Whatever the law says, as soon as grandparents, aunts etc are vaccinated, they're going to be back hugging their relatives.
Utter madness. Ministers need to listen to Tory backbenchers on this. Return to something akin to normal after the vast majority of vulnerable are vaccinated. Normal once every adult has had a jab.
Broadly I thinhk there are 4 groups:
1 - Hug now, sod the law (5%) 2 - As soon as it's legal, resume normal life (5%) 3 - As soon as it's legal, see close relatives and particularly dear friends (60%) 4 - Minimise contact for 12 months, even if legal (30%)
Groups 1 and 2 will have increasingly ostentatious parties while groups 3 and 4 eye them dubiously. 2-3 is obviously a question of degree, though - I should think most people will start with 3 and edge into 2 if cases remain low, likewise 4->3. I'll be a 4 edging towards 3 myself.
Blimey? Really. I'd say its
1 - Hug now, sod the law (15%) 2 - As soon as I've had the vaccine (first jab), get back to normal (15%) 3 - As soon as I've had the vaccine and its had time to kick in, get back to normal (45%) 4 - Wait for the civil service to stop poking its nose into my life and then get back to normal (13%) 5 - Be a bit more cautious than that, but get back to Christmas and family bashes (10%) 6 - Hang out in the covid isolated jungle like a marooned Japanese soldier for another year until I really believe the war is over (2%)
However, 5 and 6 are vastly overrepresented on here.
Yes, you're right and NPXMP is wrong.
But he has never had sex and plays board games for fun as an adult. So he is as representative of PB, as he is unrepresentative of the UK in toto.
Most Brits are not awkward, asexual, autistic geeks; most on PB are, especially the Scot Nats.
That may be true but it still hurts...
Well I play board games for fun as an adult as do many pb'ers
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Jabs are easier than having the argument in the first place, and in any event they make sense on their own. Flu kills off 17,000 people in an average Winter and, whilst we can't be sure this early in the game, Covid is likely to be with us as a chronic seasonal illness long-term, and probably one deadlier than flu, at least for some years.
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
For those that want it, sure.
Lots won't. My theory is that a treatment is more likely to supplant endless vaccines.
And politicians need to find some backbone. I suspect they will when Covid isn't front page anymore...
I think you might be right on both counts.
Treatments are already improving and are set to get rather better - we hear little about them because the focus is on the vaccines.
And the point about pressure is key: the idea that lockdown can continue when Covid deaths are in the tens per day seems farfetched to me.
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Ha! Indeed.
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
Any ideas?
None, I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying Keir's new nickname. He can never ever let himself be photographed drinking one now, can he?
Whatever the law says, as soon as grandparents, aunts etc are vaccinated, they're going to be back hugging their relatives.
Utter madness. Ministers need to listen to Tory backbenchers on this. Return to something akin to normal after the vast majority of vulnerable are vaccinated. Normal once every adult has had a jab.
Broadly I thinhk there are 4 groups:
1 - Hug now, sod the law (5%) 2 - As soon as it's legal, resume normal life (5%) 3 - As soon as it's legal, see close relatives and particularly dear friends (60%) 4 - Minimise contact for 12 months, even if legal (30%)
Groups 1 and 2 will have increasingly ostentatious parties while groups 3 and 4 eye them dubiously. 2-3 is obviously a question of degree, though - I should think most people will start with 3 and edge into 2 if cases remain low, likewise 4->3. I'll be a 4 edging towards 3 myself.
Blimey? Really. I'd say its
1 - Hug now, sod the law (15%) 2 - As soon as I've had the vaccine (first jab), get back to normal (15%) 3 - As soon as I've had the vaccine and its had time to kick in, get back to normal (45%) 4 - Wait for the civil service to stop poking its nose into my life and then get back to normal (13%) 5 - Be a bit more cautious than that, but get back to Christmas and family bashes (10%) 6 - Hang out in the covid isolated jungle like a marooned Japanese soldier for another year until I really believe the war is over (2%)
However, 5 and 6 are vastly overrepresented on here.
Yes, you're right and NPXMP is wrong.
But he has never had sex and plays board games for fun as an adult. So he is as representative of PB, as he is unrepresentative of the UK in toto.
Most Brits are not awkward, asexual, autistic geeks; most on PB are, especially the Scot Nats.
That may be true but it still hurts...
Well I play board games for fun as an adult as do many pb'ers
Indeed.
Would Twister meet your exacting standards for good (if not clean) fun?
Whatever the law says, as soon as grandparents, aunts etc are vaccinated, they're going to be back hugging their relatives.
Utter madness. Ministers need to listen to Tory backbenchers on this. Return to something akin to normal after the vast majority of vulnerable are vaccinated. Normal once every adult has had a jab.
Broadly I thinhk there are 4 groups:
1 - Hug now, sod the law (5%) 2 - As soon as it's legal, resume normal life (5%) 3 - As soon as it's legal, see close relatives and particularly dear friends (60%) 4 - Minimise contact for 12 months, even if legal (30%)
Groups 1 and 2 will have increasingly ostentatious parties while groups 3 and 4 eye them dubiously. 2-3 is obviously a question of degree, though - I should think most people will start with 3 and edge into 2 if cases remain low, likewise 4->3. I'll be a 4 edging towards 3 myself.
Blimey? Really. I'd say its
1 - Hug now, sod the law (15%) 2 - As soon as I've had the vaccine (first jab), get back to normal (15%) 3 - As soon as I've had the vaccine and its had time to kick in, get back to normal (45%) 4 - Wait for the civil service to stop poking its nose into my life and then get back to normal (13%) 5 - Be a bit more cautious than that, but get back to Christmas and family bashes (10%) 6 - Hang out in the covid isolated jungle like a marooned Japanese soldier for another year until I really believe the war is over (2%)
However, 5 and 6 are vastly overrepresented on here.
Yes, you're right and NPXMP is wrong.
But he has never had sex and plays board games for fun as an adult. So he is as representative of PB, as he is unrepresentative of the UK in toto.
Most Brits are not awkward, asexual, autistic geeks; most on PB are, especially the Scot Nats.
That may be true but it still hurts...
Well I play board games for fun as an adult as do many pb'ers
Indeed.
Would Twister meet your exacting standards for good (if not clean) fun?
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Ha! Indeed.
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
Any ideas?
None, I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying Keir's new nickname. He can never ever let himself be photographed drinking one now, can he?
I bet he does tho. Secretly, at home, in Islington.
I would, if I were him.
I'd get home, after a day of being depressingly boring, ineffectual, forgettable yet somehow "forensic" in Westminster, and I'd whip out a glass, slosh the creme de cassis, add the champagne from a half drunk bottle of Sainsburys Taste the Difference bubbly in the fridge, and I'd sip it down, as I closed my eyes and I'd think, that's me:
*Sir Kir. Sir Kir "Royale" Starmer. Leader of her Majesty's Opposition. And everyone else can fuck off*
Sub 100k cases in the USA again today, the world seems to be coming out the second wave at any rate. Spanish flu had 4 waves I think, the second was the biggest though - hopefully it is with Covid 19 too.
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
Meaning lots of people get a cold?
Moronic comment. Look someone wit long COVID in the eye and say that. They’d hit you, but they wouldn’t have the energy.
I am set in for 2021 to be much similar to 2020, most likely with no foreign holidays.
I have already written off the prospect of going to things like gigs.
Did you go to gigs before Covid?
The idea this continues when all the vulnerable are vaccinated, and when cases are in the low hundreds per day is ridiculous.
The suppression of the virus was to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed.
Cases are currently in the tens of thousands per day not the low hundreds per day and only a fraction of the vulnerable are vaccinated.
No way this will continue when cases are in the low hundreds per day and all vulnerable are vaccinated.
I agree.
But it looks like someone needs to tell the govt this...
The thing that is the issue for the government, the South African variant (or something worse) taking hold in the UK before AZ have updated their vaccine.
Just look how quickly and easily Cockney Covid spread.
By the time AZ have updated their vaccine and are mass producing it we'll be talking at the very least about the next major scary variant but one.
If you can't open up in the summer months when can you? Keeping restrictions till autumn means actually spring 2022 in practice.
Yes, it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.
We should have annual flu-like vaccines for everyone not just the at risk - and we should start offering the flu vaccine to everyone too. We've shown we can manufacture vaccines at scale so just bloody do it.
If everyone is vaccinated it will reduce spread.
Yes, I'm hoping that this is the end state. Once we've got a large vaccine development and manufacturing capability up and running in the country, it goes without saying that it should be used for something other than Covid. Flu is an obvious example, and blanket vaccination can be used as a quick and easy way of shutting up the more nutty scientists who are otherwise going to try to convince the Government to force us all into masks every bloody Winter forevermore.
The other easy way would be just to tell them to sod off...
Jabs are easier than having the argument in the first place, and in any event they make sense on their own. Flu kills off 17,000 people in an average Winter and, whilst we can't be sure this early in the game, Covid is likely to be with us as a chronic seasonal illness long-term, and probably one deadlier than flu, at least for some years.
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
With this mRNA technology, presumably the yearly flu vaccine can be prepared much closer to the time of vaccination rather than guessing 6 months ahead what next winter's virus will look like. It might make it a lot better than the current 60% efficacy.
I'm not sure about combining them though. Doesn't giving the immune system two things to think about at the same time reduce the effectiveness of the response to both?
On Topic. Told you the country is on my side of the argument and it’s not impossible. Some on PB just so out of touch with political reality.
Boris to share vaccine with EU country before end of Easter.
7% is the country on your side?
What?
“ (51%) would support giving vaccines to other countries once over-50s, frontline health and social workers and those clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. Forty-seven per cent would be happy to start giving them away once over-65s and frontline health and social care workers had received the jab and those at risk because of clinical conditions. “
Comments
To explain myself a little I hope.
I believe all should be equal before the law. Most think of that as that it shouldn't matter who you are you will still get prosecuted if you commit a crime. I however also think that means that a crime done against me should be taken as seriously as an identical crime in identical circumstances against someone else. This is why I object to certain things being thought of aggravating over and above means that the crime committed against me even if equal in circumstances is less serious.
I am also one that believes in innocent till proven guilty, where a crime is treated differently on the assertion of the victim shifts that. The police no longer for example have to prove its racially motivated, instead I now have to show it wasn't. We had this with the victim must always be believed in paedophilia cases and that has resulted in many witch hunts. Remember Carl Beech. By all means take it seriously and look for evidence but you have to actually find evidence
Who wants to step into this key role?
There were murmurings today from Sir Keir ‘Royale’ Starmer, in his mild attack on holiday uncertainty.
But I don’t think he’s really the man for the job.
Any ideas?
In the words of Clem. 'Not up to it'
Mass vaccination can wipe out the bulk of those deaths *and* the hospitalisations that clog up the healthcare system (which can only be a good thing, especially now that it has such a large treatment backlog to clear,) both through protection of the individual and reduction of transmission, at very modest cost - we already have a large fraction of the population given the flu jab once a year, so all we need to do is have all of the population receive one jab a year (because one assumes that there's no earthly reason why the flu and Covid vaccines couldn't be delivered simultaneously.) And it's not as if any of this is like the crap we've had to put up with for a year now. It's, at most, one half-day off work if you can't get an ideal appointment slot. A trifling inconvenience. What's not to like?
Lots won't. My theory is that a treatment is more likely to supplant endless vaccines.
And politicians need to find some backbone. I suspect they will when Covid isn't front page anymore...
The cost of a shot for everyone ought to be peanuts compared to the risk of going through any of this nonsense again and should help reduce the strain of flu etc annually on the NHS. Value for money and we should have vaccination manufacturing domestically anyway and this gives that manufacturing something to do annually to stay viable.
Mark is now surely a contender for the Big_G Prize for Politician of the Year for 2021.
I expect Big G will award the prize to the favourite Boris again, but certainly a honourable mention for Mark this time
Treatments are already improving and are set to get rather better - we hear little about them because the focus is on the vaccines.
And the point about pressure is key: the idea that lockdown can continue when Covid deaths are in the tens per day seems farfetched to me.
But, I guess we shall see!
I would, if I were him.
I'd get home, after a day of being depressingly boring, ineffectual, forgettable yet somehow "forensic" in Westminster, and I'd whip out a glass, slosh the creme de cassis, add the champagne from a half drunk bottle of Sainsburys Taste the Difference bubbly in the fridge, and I'd sip it down, as I closed my eyes and I'd think, that's me:
*Sir Kir. Sir Kir "Royale" Starmer. Leader of her Majesty's Opposition. And everyone else can fuck off*
I'm not sure about combining them though. Doesn't giving the immune system two things to think about at the same time reduce the effectiveness of the response to both?
Boris to share vaccine with EU country before end of Easter.
“ (51%) would support giving vaccines to other countries once over-50s, frontline health and social workers and those clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. Forty-seven per cent would be happy to start giving them away once over-65s and frontline health and social care workers had received the jab and those at risk because of clinical conditions. “
You are such a naughty blob fish