Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The video played at the start of the Senate Impeachment hearing – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Lost it lol, we're in a pandemic not a war situation. We didn't err... fight the spanish flu on the beaches.
    JH-B did her bit on the beaches of Barbados.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Senate votes to hear the impeachment trial by 56 to 44

    Trial starts 5pm tomorrow UK time
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
    Had flu as an u/g. So I’ll I couldn’t get out of bed to turn of the light to go to sleep. Moral is lots of bugs can hit pretty hard, not just Covid.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Well thats scottish pensions screwed then
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
    Had flu as an u/g. So I’ll I couldn’t get out of bed to turn of the light to go to sleep. Moral is lots of bugs can hit pretty hard, not just Covid.
    An honest question.

    I'm not saying Covid is "just the flu" because it isn't. However, normal flu (proper flu - not a bad cold), glandular fever etc do indeed knock you for six. You feel terrible and the normal flu kills millions across the world every year, and indeed has waves of even worse years.

    Now everyone has been attuned to be scared stupid by Covid, if you are suffering from it and then you test positive for it does that not induce panic in some people which actually makes it worse?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    What's even more funny about it is he then, in answer to someone quizzing him on his proposal, goes onto say that it would need to be "worked out by someone more knowledgeable than I".

    Err, yep.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    I have a feeling the 'mind changes' might include any banks operating in that jurisdiction, or offering any financial products to any Scots.

    I'd always thought a sovereign default would follow a few years after a future SINDY; I'm now convinced it would be a matter of weeks.
  • Incredible! 😲

    Absolutely remarkable. Even with everything that has happened, that chart surprised me. Wow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
    I backpacked China in 2003. Looking back, it actually coincided precisely with the first SARS outbreak ! Was sick in Australia briefly but that was after diving in Koh Tao for 30 days which now seems to be famous for murders :D
  • It wouldn't surprise me to hear the EU say that if we want a constructive negotiation on the NI protocol then we need to take a more "realistic" attitude to our vaccination rollout.
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    What's even more funny about it is he then, in answer to someone quizzing him on his proposal, goes onto say that it would need to be "worked out by someone more knowledgeable than I".

    Err, yep.
    I love the idea that 4% interest on a £100,000 mortgage for 20 years means that you need to repay £104,000

    Errr . . . why not just ban all interest as usury while you're at it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
    Had flu as an u/g. So I’ll I couldn’t get out of bed to turn of the light to go to sleep. Moral is lots of bugs can hit pretty hard, not just Covid.
    An honest question.

    I'm not saying Covid is "just the flu" because it isn't. However, normal flu (proper flu - not a bad cold), glandular fever etc do indeed knock you for six. You feel terrible and the normal flu kills millions across the world every year, and indeed has waves of even worse years.

    Now everyone has been attuned to be scared stupid by Covid, if you are suffering from it and then you test positive for it does that not induce panic in some people which actually makes it worse?
    I'm positive I've had the flu, but always been able to do stuff whilst I've had it. Was diagnosed with Sepsis at one point too, that did actually put me in the hospital - was surprised to learn a few years later it has a 30% mortality rate, I felt shockingly ill but never like I was actually going to die.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    Ah, so some of your best friends are Trans?

    It's a pity we never hear from our previous poster who was a transitioning International male model. Who was that poster? 🤔
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    Precisely its a loud minority shouting, my trans friends wouldn't even consider going into an open female changing room for example instead they seek out ones with individual cubicles.
  • The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    Comical Ali will be doing overtime pumping out his lib dem-esque charts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    I have a feeling the 'mind changes' might include any banks operating in that jurisdiction, or offering any financial products to any Scots.

    I'd always thought a sovereign default would follow a few years after a future SINDY; I'm now convinced it would be a matter of weeks.
    Yes, Scotland would default within a few weeks. Look at their fiscal position. It's inevitable.

    I am sure an indy Scotland would prosper after a decade or two, but they would be painful decades.

    The problem for England is that the English would be forced to pick up the pieces, as the Scots want to use the English pound etc. We would HAVE to bail them out (the same way the UK really HAD to help Ireland in the eurocrisis, but times a hundred).

    That is why referendums on Scottish independence are rightly and only legislated by the UK parliament as a whole, in Westminster, with Scots MPs properly represented. It is the only moral course for Britain as a nation.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    Unfortunately, there’s a subset of soi-disant feminists who absolutely /loathe/ the idea of trans women. You can read up on the history if you like - this split in feminist thought has been there since at least the 70s & probably before.

    There’s a well known US feminist who spent a good chunk of her time back in the day rooting out trans women and outing them to everyone in their locality so that they would lose their jobs & their livelihoods (this kind of thing being at least as bad as being gay in the eyes of many at the time, if not worse). Not because any of these people had done anything to her personally - they offended her simply by existing.

    Faced with this kind of thing, it’s unsurprising that trans politics can get extremely bitter. Most of might be happy to live & let live + that’s a fine ideal to live by most of the time, but what do you do when a subset refuses to let go of this kind of deep rooted hate?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    What's even more funny about it is he then, in answer to someone quizzing him on his proposal, goes onto say that it would need to be "worked out by someone more knowledgeable than I".

    Err, yep.
    I love the idea that 4% interest on a £100,000 mortgage for 20 years means that you need to repay £104,000

    Errr . . . why not just ban all interest as usury while you're at it?
    Or have an independent Scotland adopt Sharia Law. Bingo! No interest....
  • Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls"

    Was indeed an inspired thing to say, although to put the traditional PB pedantic hat on, i think there is no evidence she actually said it. The line or very similar comes from Walsingham's opinion of what she thought (possibly drafted by Bacon).

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    Unfortunately, there’s a subset of soi-disant feminists who absolutely /loathe/ the idea of trans women. You can read up on the history if you like - this split in feminist thought has been there since at least the 70s & probably before.

    There’s a well known US feminist who spent a good chunk of her time back in the day rooting out trans women and outing them to everyone in their locality so that they would lose their jobs & their livelihoods (this kind of thing being at least as bad as being gay in the eyes of many at the time, if not worse). Not because any of these people had done anything to her personally - they offended her simply by existing.

    Faced with this kind of thing, it’s unsurprising that trans politics can get extremely bitter. Most of might be happy to live & let live + that’s a fine ideal to live by most of the time, but what do you do when a subset refuses to let go of this kind of deep rooted hate?
    That though is very different, we are just talking practicalities which are

    1) women cannot compete is muscle reliant sports with trans women who grew up male

    2) Women dont really feel comfortable in open areas with a todger flopping around
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited February 2021
    Black people in England have been no more likely than white people to die of Covid-19 in the second wave of the pandemic, official data shows. But Bangladeshi and Pakistani people still experienced three times the risk.

    BBC News - Covid: South Asian death rates still ‘alarming’ in second wave
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56002506
  • Shameful 'cover-up culture' at top of the Met: Leon Brittan's widow breaks her silence over child sex abuse probe, savages police for 'moral failure' and slams Tom Watson for 'the most despicable thing a human can do'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9242741/Leon-Brittans-widow-breaks-silence-Mets-moral-failure-child-sex-abuse-probe.html
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:
    It is.

    It must be hugely reassuring for Sindy supporters to know that one of the major figures designing their post-independence economic future has been "working on a possible new banking and financial system for Scotland" - ie a whole new form of capitalism - "for two or three months".

    It makes the grave gamble of Brexit look like buying one single Premium Bond.
    I think the bigger problem is he has no idea what the typical amount of interest on mortgage is. 4% in total? LOL.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had pneumonia for a week when I was 20.

    Felt like utter death. Horrible.
    Had flu as an u/g. So I’ll I couldn’t get out of bed to turn of the light to go to sleep. Moral is lots of bugs can hit pretty hard, not just Covid.
    An honest question.

    I'm not saying Covid is "just the flu" because it isn't. However, normal flu (proper flu - not a bad cold), glandular fever etc do indeed knock you for six. You feel terrible and the normal flu kills millions across the world every year, and indeed has waves of even worse years.

    Now everyone has been attuned to be scared stupid by Covid, if you are suffering from it and then you test positive for it does that not induce panic in some people which actually makes it worse?
    I'm positive I've had the flu, but always been able to do stuff whilst I've had it. Was diagnosed with Sepsis at one point too, that did actually put me in the hospital - was surprised to learn a few years later it has a 30% mortality rate, I felt shockingly ill but never like I was actually going to die.
    And here's the thing about Covid, the measures we all have to take against it; the fact we likely know someone who has died or got really sick from it. Well it does worry you doesn't it, I mean it can't not. Yet I went merrily through China during a minor pandemic (SARS 1 never really hit the big time) and also was hospitalised with an illness that claims ~ 30% of victims (Sepsis) - I never knew how bad SARS or sepsis could be and had no clue I might get them at the times I did so didn't particularly worry about them.
    But with Covid, I'm worried. I mean I'm a bit older, but not massively so - but just knowing what it can do and that it's out there, even though I'm highly highly likely to be just fine. Well it does worry... it's a shame we can't follow the guidelines, take the vaccination and be blissfully ignorant of what could happen. That'd be great but it's not possible because if you don't know about Covid then you can't take any action to stop the spread. Definitely a very annoying part of the pandemic situation.
  • The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    Comical Ali will be doing overtime pumping out his lib dem-esque charts.
    Interestingly, Yanis Varoufakis blames the vaccine mess in EU on a typical attempt to balance French and Germany power/interests by agreeing to buy an equal amount of the German vaccine and the French vaccine. The latter did not pass trials. Meanwhile, they dragged their feet on the UK/AZ one for three months.

    He has a piece in this week's Newstatesman.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Shameful 'cover-up culture' at top of the Met: Leon Brittan's widow breaks her silence over child sex abuse probe, savages police for 'moral failure' and slams Tom Watson for 'the most despicable thing a human can do'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9242741/Leon-Brittans-widow-breaks-silence-Mets-moral-failure-child-sex-abuse-probe.html

    The first mistake is thinking the police are moral. They have a lot of good people but sadly group think often overrules. Even nightjack, a serving police officer before he was outed, used to advise saying nothing to the police because it would be twisted to make you guilty
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls"

    Was indeed an inspired thing to say, although to put the traditional PB pedantic hat on, i think there is no evidence she actually said it. The line or very similar comes from Walsingham's opinion of what she thought (possibly drafted by Bacon).

    Speaking of Elizabeth, I see the BBC is about to re-screen* the Elizabeth R series from 1971 on its 50th anniversary.

    (*Yes, I know, repeats, but I bet not many of us saw it the first time around.)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Andy_JS said:

    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?

    They'll be forcing you to bin your typewriter soon, too. ;)
  • Incredible! 😲

    Absolutely remarkable. Even with everything that has happened, that chart surprised me. Wow.
    We better get a bloody wiggle on next week. They might catch us up if we are not careful.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021
    Not looked - let's guess who the 6 GOP senators are...

    Sasse, Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey and can't think of a sixth... (Not looked yet)

    Edit: Bill Cassidy it seems.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    You mean they're still falling behind compared to us? I was expecting the opposite to happen given their incredibly slow start.
  • OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
  • Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls"

    Was indeed an inspired thing to say, although to put the traditional PB pedantic hat on, i think there is no evidence she actually said it. The line or very similar comes from Walsingham's opinion of what she thought (possibly drafted by Bacon).

    Speaking of Elizabeth, I see the BBC is about to re-screen* the Elizabeth R series from 1971 on its 50th anniversary.

    (*Yes, I know, repeats, but I bet not many of us saw it the first time around.)
    Oh, that's interesting. Any idea when it is coming on?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Fine. But there's folk on the side of BLM who (to use your analogy) say everybody has Covid. You're just asymptomatic. You don't KNOW you have Covid. But I'm a Covid doctor and even without a test, I KNOW you have Covid.

    Those same folk are demanding I buy their Covid treatments, which they KNOW work for everybody. Because of their rigorous testing regime (ie, they say so....)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    Ah, so some of your best friends are Trans?

    It's a pity we never hear from our previous poster who was a transitioning International male model. Who was that poster? 🤔
    She really is one of my oldest friends. I went into Charing X hospital when she was just post-op. You can sneer at my experience if you like, up to you. But it is a real thing. And surely part of the whole trans world: how others react.

    Some of my male friends found it very hard to readjust to "he" being "she". And I did not find it easy, I confess - after 20 years of male friendship. But I tried, and we are still friends. It gave me insight, I hope
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Fine. But there's folk on the side of BLM who (to use your analogy) say everybody has Covid. You're just asymptomatic. You don't KNOW you have Covid. But I'm a Covid doctor and even without a test, I KNOW you have Covid.

    Those same folk are demanding I buy their Covid treatments, which they KNOW work for everybody. Because of their rigorous testing regime (ie, they say so....)
    Of course some people are loons, just as some people are hypochondriacs, or hypochondriacs by proxy. I know people who are convinced they've had Covid 3 or 4 times already, or are certain others they know all have it. We can differentiate between these idiots without going into full on denialism or refusing to tackle the real issues.

    Solving the issues bringing about BLM is the priority. What's remarkable is that many people here would quite rightly say that the UK is not the USA - and are right to say that. Our Police are not like US Police. Which is why BLM didn't last long in this country and the Premier League etc rapidly dumped the name and instead tied it into their own pre-existing anti-racism Kick It Out program instead.

    But the USA is the USA. Their Police are awful far too often. Their problems are endemic. And they need dealing with.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866
    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    On excess deaths the UK is firmly mid-table and the infections aren't comparable given the scale of testing here.

    The government is taking criticism on international comparisons because it is being transparent over deaths, we're basically the only country in the world that is reporting more covid deaths than excess deaths, for example. We also have an incredible level of data transparency in cases because of the weekly ONS report that no other country has so far replicated.

    Once this is all done and the real statistics all come out the UK response will look very much like every other disorganised Western European country, not better or worse just more honest about the situation.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    Ah, so some of your best friends are Trans?

    It's a pity we never hear from our previous poster who was a transitioning International male model. Who was that poster? 🤔
    She really is one of my oldest friends. I went into Charing X hospital when she was just post-op. You can sneer at my experience if you like, up to you. But it is a real thing. And surely part of the whole trans world: how others react.

    Some of my male friends found it very hard to readjust to "he" being "she". And I did not find it easy, I confess - after 20 years of male friendship. But I tried, and we are still friends. It gave me insight, I hope
    Similar, took time to calling her by her new name not her old name after 20 years of knowing her by the other. Though to be honest most of her friends already had a fair idea so when she finally came out we went yes we know :)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
    Of course the vaccination process will have an impact on deaths and the economy but my point is that if we are still at the top end of the deaths per million and the top end of the fall in GDP at the end of it all then the government has failed and the fact that we rolled out vaccines quickly simply means that we didn't fail as badly as we would have.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited February 2021
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?

    They'll be forcing you to bin your typewriter soon, too. ;)
    If everyone is de facto forced to carry a smartphone around with them in order to do anything, what's the difference between that and being forced to wear an ankle tag like many released prisoners have to do? I like technology, but it has to be a choice, not compulsory.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
    It is? Are you sure?

    I haven't seen anything "BLM" here in months.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
    It is? Are you sure?

    I haven't seen anything "BLM" here in months.
    There was no reason for it to be here in the first place and it was and you cant deny it
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?

    They'll be forcing you to bin your typewriter soon, too. ;)
    If everyone is de facto forced to carry a smartphone around with them in order to do anything, what's the difference between that and being forced to wear an ankle tag like many released prisoners have to do?
    How many things absolutely require a smartphone?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    No, you mustn't do that. Trans people (prejudice against whom I find even more inexplicable than prejudice against gays) and people being wankers ostensibly in support of trans people are entirely different issues.
    I don't see much trans prejudice what I do see and trans friends agree with me on this is a vociferous few arguing for things that are clearly dubious.

    Trans women( male to female shouldnt compete in sport). Create a third or fourth category for them

    Trans women pre op shouldnt be in women only spaces like open dressing rooms and womens prison. Toilets which are cubicles fine, changing rooms which are cubicles fine but most women don't reallly want a todger waving around in front of them while they are getting changed.

    I don't know anyone trans that disagrees with either its an extreme position an they understand why
    Yes it's mad. My trans friend - and her friends (she tells me) - are dismayed by this turn in the debate. Quiet acceptance is the ideal. Live and let live. That's how Britain does things, and it works. Cf Elizabeth the First on Protestantism v Catholicism: "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls". What a genius thing to say. Our great queen, 500 years ago.

    It is the hysterical evangelism of the present trans debate which alienates. It has, also, surely, reached its natural limit with "chestfeeding"
    "I have no desire to make a window into men's souls"

    Was indeed an inspired thing to say, although to put the traditional PB pedantic hat on, i think there is no evidence she actually said it. The line or very similar comes from Walsingham's opinion of what she thought (possibly drafted by Bacon).

    Speaking of Elizabeth, I see the BBC is about to re-screen* the Elizabeth R series from 1971 on its 50th anniversary.

    (*Yes, I know, repeats, but I bet not many of us saw it the first time around.)
    Oh, that's interesting. Any idea when it is coming on?
    First episode is next Wednesday, 17th February @21:00 on BBC Four; 50 years to the day of the first broadcast.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    Ah, so some of your best friends are Trans?

    It's a pity we never hear from our previous poster who was a transitioning International male model. Who was that poster? 🤔
    She really is one of my oldest friends. I went into Charing X hospital when she was just post-op. You can sneer at my experience if you like, up to you. But it is a real thing. And surely part of the whole trans world: how others react.

    Some of my male friends found it very hard to readjust to "he" being "she". And I did not find it easy, I confess - after 20 years of male friendship. But I tried, and we are still friends. It gave me insight, I hope
    Glad to hear it. Learning empathy is a good thing at any age. Try to show it a little more in your postings though. No need to take the piss from Trans folk, it doesn't help the debate.
  • OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
    Of course the vaccination process will have an impact on deaths and the economy but my point is that if we are still at the top end of the deaths per million and the top end of the fall in GDP at the end of it all then the government has failed and the fact that we rolled out vaccines quickly simply means that we didn't fail as badly as we would have.

    We're not going to be though.

    There are already coming out new forecasts that the UK could regain its lost economic output by the end of the year. Due to sluggish Q1 we'll still be down annualised, but we could by Q4 be back to pre-pandemic levels.

    That is remarkable - and it is not being projected for the likes of France, Spain, Italy and Portugal etc or even Germany that are still dealing with the pandemic months after us.

    Our recovery will begin faster and harder than other countries.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    Comical Ali will be doing overtime pumping out his lib dem-esque charts.
    It's easy when the first shot is assumed to essentially offer no protection whatsoever, therefore only 'fully vaccinated' counts.

    More seriously, any indication the supply issues will get better for the EU countries from this point on, or is it a bit more time before things improve markedly on that score? A few slowpokes aside, most of them can probably go pretty darn quickly once that happens.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
    It is? Are you sure?

    I haven't seen anything "BLM" here in months.
    There was no reason for it to be here in the first place and it was and you cant deny it
    It was never really here in the first place. What happened in the USA was horrific and good on people protesting against it.

    But it fizzled out here because it was solidarity with the suffering in America and not our own lived experiences that were the issue. Thank goodness for that.

    Real racism does still exist in this country which is why the Premier League has for many years had its own Kick It Out program. So they should, but its nothing like BLM because we don't have anything like the problems America has.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had glandular fever when I was seven - the earliest case the throat specialist had ever seen. What I most remember is that I enjoyed the three weeks off school I got as a result.
  • Can we lock up Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab at the same time as well.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1359225712708886531

    Are British Prime Ministers in the habit of revealing American spies identities? 🤔
    Can you defend her driving the wrong side of a UK road?
    Perhaps the answer that would defuse the political row, satisfy the Dunns, and most importantly, reduce the likelihood of future deaths is to take measures to prevent US personnel driving on the wrong side of the road. They could call them Dunn's rules or some such.

    For instance by improving signs and exits from US bases, and stopping the import of left-hand drive cars (aiui US forces can bring their own vehicles here for free). Heck, these days perhaps satnavs and even cars themselves might know they are on the wrong side of the road.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Pulpstar said:

    Not looked - let's guess who the 6 GOP senators are...

    Sasse, Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey and can't think of a sixth... (Not looked yet)

    Edit: Bill Cassidy it seems.

    Sasse seems like an interesting one. Hardcore but also utterly uninterested in overlooking Trump's flaws like most in his position (those that did not kowtow to Trump anyway, like Cruz).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    Ah, so some of your best friends are Trans?

    It's a pity we never hear from our previous poster who was a transitioning International male model. Who was that poster? 🤔
    She really is one of my oldest friends. I went into Charing X hospital when she was just post-op. You can sneer at my experience if you like, up to you. But it is a real thing. And surely part of the whole trans world: how others react.

    Some of my male friends found it very hard to readjust to "he" being "she". And I did not find it easy, I confess - after 20 years of male friendship. But I tried, and we are still friends. It gave me insight, I hope
    Glad to hear it. Learning empathy is a good thing at any age. Try to show it a little more in your postings though. No need to take the piss from Trans folk, it doesn't help the debate.
    I don't take the piss out of trans folk. I take the piss out of you. Your doctorly narcissism is ridiculous. Step down
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
    It is? Are you sure?

    I haven't seen anything "BLM" here in months.
    There was no reason for it to be here in the first place and it was and you cant deny it
    It was never really here in the first place. What happened in the USA was horrific and good on people protesting against it.

    But it fizzled out here because it was solidarity with the suffering in America and not our own lived experiences that were the issue. Thank goodness for that.

    Real racism does still exist in this country which is why the Premier League has for many years had its own Kick It Out program. So they should, but its nothing like BLM because we don't have anything like the problems America has.
    Yes racism is extreme over there, was over sitting outside once in a starbucks and it was full a young black guy came out and was looking around so I gestured to the spare seats on my table.....couldn't get over the fact he was surprised and was all "Are you sure man.." seemed almost like its unusual to sit together if you are black and white
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Okay, I'll bite. What is the Scottish Currency Facebook Group?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:

    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?

    I can't speak for all of us, but personally it's because I've always wanted to oppress people and it's the only socially acceptable way I can.

    Being serious, I certainly don't use my phone much compared to most people, but ultimately since a phone is a useful thing to have there's just no reason to not make it a smartphone as well.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    On excess deaths the UK is firmly mid-table and the infections aren't comparable given the scale of testing here.

    The government is taking criticism on international comparisons because it is being transparent over deaths, we're basically the only country in the world that is reporting more covid deaths than excess deaths, for example. We also have an incredible level of data transparency in cases because of the weekly ONS report that no other country has so far replicated.

    Once this is all done and the real statistics all come out the UK response will look very much like every other disorganised Western European country, not better or worse just more honest about the situation.
    You are just making assumptions that suit your agenda. I do not believe that there is anything uniquely transparent or honest about the UKs covid reporting statistics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Alistair said:

    Okay, I'll bite. What is the Scottish Currency Facebook Group?

    Apparently they are in charge of Sindy fiscal policy? I knew FaceBook had too much power.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Andy_JS said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Why is it that the 75% who use smartphones are so determined to force the other 25% to buy one?

    They'll be forcing you to bin your typewriter soon, too. ;)
    If everyone is de facto forced to carry a smartphone around with them in order to do anything, what's the difference between that and being forced to wear an ankle tag like many released prisoners have to do? I like technology, but it has to be a choice, not compulsory.
    Comparing the ubiquity of smart phones with ankle tags for prisoners is an...interesting and not at all hyperbolic strategy.

    Is there actually some move afoot to force people to have one or is this just railing at societal pressure?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Covid anecdote time:

    My wife was on a work call with someone who has just returned to work after 3 weeks ill with Covid and is still feeling rough.

    Age - around 20.

    I'm not sure how surprising this is. I reckon the most ill I've felt was when I was 21. Whatever I picked up knocked me out for three weeks. Annoyingly it was in the run up to my finals at university.
    Glandular fever? A traditional disease of the undergraduate. Totally pole-axed me when I was about 20. And came back for more
    I had glandular fever when I was seven - the earliest case the throat specialist had ever seen. What I most remember is that I enjoyed the three weeks off school I got as a result.
    It is linked to a whole host of conditions you are then more likely to get in later life, though, including some nasty ones.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    FPT on chestfeeding. Has the Times fallen for a hoax? Have Brighton's midwives fallen for a hoax?

    Because I cannot see how the word "breastfeeding" is objectionable but "midwife" is not.

    I thought doula was another term for midwife, but apparently that's something different.
  • Alistair said:

    Okay, I'll bite. What is the Scottish Currency Facebook Group?

    Group run by Tim Rideout.

    Economist, Geographer & Cartographer, co-founder of XYZ Maps, Convener of the Scottish Currency Group, Lothians Member of the SNP Policy Development Committee.

    and

    What currency Scotland would use if the country was to become independent was the topic of much debate in the run up to the last independence referendum in 2014.

    With some apparent confusion exacerbated by a largely anti-independence media in Scotland and the notion that Scotland would continue to use sterling, provided something of an Achilles heal for the No campaign to exploit.

    Of course, Scotland would absolutely be free to use sterling post independence regardless of what the UK politicians shamefully claimed in 2014 as sterling is an internationally-traded currency, so there is nothing the UK can actually do to prevent Scotland doing so.

    But is using sterling really such a good idea?

    Economist Dr Tim Rideout argues no. Indeed, his arguments to the SNP’s 2019 Spring Conference led to something of a revolt by party members who voted overwhelmingly to reject the Sustainable Growth Commission report’s recommendation that Scotland continue to use sterling post independence.


    https://www.reservebank.scot/#gsc.tab=0
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    On excess deaths the UK is firmly mid-table and the infections aren't comparable given the scale of testing here.

    The government is taking criticism on international comparisons because it is being transparent over deaths, we're basically the only country in the world that is reporting more covid deaths than excess deaths, for example. We also have an incredible level of data transparency in cases because of the weekly ONS report that no other country has so far replicated.

    Once this is all done and the real statistics all come out the UK response will look very much like every other disorganised Western European country, not better or worse just more honest about the situation.
    You are just making assumptions that suit your agenda. I do not believe that there is anything uniquely transparent or honest about the UKs covid reporting statistics.
    Ahem

    *Deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

    "For any reason" is probably the most honest part.

    We could, I suppose have determined instead "Deaths specifically attributable to Covid within 28 days of a positive test". The figures might look better on that metric.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
    Of course the vaccination process will have an impact on deaths and the economy but my point is that if we are still at the top end of the deaths per million and the top end of the fall in GDP at the end of it all then the government has failed and the fact that we rolled out vaccines quickly simply means that we didn't fail as badly as we would have.

    We're not going to be though.

    There are already coming out new forecasts that the UK could regain its lost economic output by the end of the year. Due to sluggish Q1 we'll still be down annualised, but we could by Q4 be back to pre-pandemic levels.

    That is remarkable - and it is not being projected for the likes of France, Spain, Italy and Portugal etc or even Germany that are still dealing with the pandemic months after us.

    Our recovery will begin faster and harder than other countries.
    And - so long as you have a Vaccination certificate in your passport - stuff here will be open to the foreign visitor wanting to sample life and culture and all the stuff still locked down in their own countries.

    UK will be THE place to be this summer.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
    Of course the vaccination process will have an impact on deaths and the economy but my point is that if we are still at the top end of the deaths per million and the top end of the fall in GDP at the end of it all then the government has failed and the fact that we rolled out vaccines quickly simply means that we didn't fail as badly as we would have.

    We're not going to be though.

    There are already coming out new forecasts that the UK could regain its lost economic output by the end of the year. Due to sluggish Q1 we'll still be down annualised, but we could by Q4 be back to pre-pandemic levels.

    That is remarkable - and it is not being projected for the likes of France, Spain, Italy and Portugal etc or even Germany that are still dealing with the pandemic months after us.

    Our recovery will begin faster and harder than other countries.
    You really have no idea whether that will be the case, you just hope it will. A couple of years from now we will know which economies came out of it best. Boris-style optimism based on SFA doesn't cut it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Pagan2 said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    fpt on the CHESTFEEDING DEBATE



    They could call it "homo-milk". As in milk from homo sapiens.

    But milk comes from female animals, in nature, so maybe "milk" is sexist, or transphobic?

    How about front-chest-human-bottom-juice?

    You really feel quite threatened by Trans discussions, don't you?
    Ah, no. I just have a good trans friend (she; post op) AND a close female friend (in her 20s) who is VERY exercised by this, in an anti-woke way. There really is pushback in young people. See the successful social media output of Blaire White (trans, black, conservative): a popular influencer

    This is a lively debate. For some reason Britain is the centre of it - we start and generate more trans argument than anywhere else, but it infects others, just as BLM started in America but spread.

    These culture wars aren't going away. I am pretty sure they are fed by Chinese cyberwar, as a way of dividing the West


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmCBKaKOtOrEqgsL4-3C8Q

    BLM isn't an "infection".

    Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently pulling over black drivers for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers frequently shooting black people for no reason is the infection. Chronic racism against black lives leading to officers spending 8 minutes kneeling on somebodies neck is the infection. BLM is the reaction, it is the symptom responding to what is going wrong.

    If you want to avoid COVID you don't say "if you've got COVID just don't cough, don't get a temperature and don't die because those are bad" - you try and prevent people getting COVID in the first place.

    BLM are the high temperature response to what happens to black people. If you want to get rid of the fever, end the racism. Solve the problem not the symptom.
    Damn straight. & if your concern is that leftist campaigners are using BLM as an entryist strategy then your best way to prevent that strategy being successful is to solve the problems that BLM are complaining about: They have a list of demands that are entirely sane & not Marxist in any way! Maybe the US could consider implementing some of them, instead of getting aerated about covert Marxist threats.

    (Sadly, the history of the US suggests that they will do so kicking & screaming every step of the way: cue Churchill’s quote about America...)
    All true of the US no disputes

    and blm is here because?
    It is? Are you sure?

    I haven't seen anything "BLM" here in months.
    Hopefully that doesn't signify concern about racism has dropped off, but being branded with an american movement catalysed into mass action by some pretty specific US issues may have meant a certain drop off in energy and media attention after the specific moment had passed.

    Still people putting in hard yards right now as well, I'm sure
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Anyway, it was an early start for the cricket, so night all. Play nice.....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Only from the PB Tories.






    Only on PB.
  • Anyway, it was an early start for the cricket, so night all. Play nice.....

    Lightweight.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Smartphone users:

    (a) We don't like the fact we spend so much time on our smartphones.
    (b) Let's force the 25% of people who don't use them to buy one by making life impossible without one.

    Makes sense doesn't it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,665
    edited February 2021
    Full disclosure.

    One of my colleagues wrote a policy analysis paper in the run up the Indyref about how the SNP's plan for the Bank of England to an independent Scotland's lender of last resort was legally impossible.

    One key point, only the Chancellor of the Exchequer can set the targets/guidelines for the Governor, it would be illegal for him to follow another country's targets and guidelines, and no one ever answered the question what happens if the Chancellor and an Independent Scotland set contradictory targets.

    Now my colleague is one of the country's leading experts of banking and financial services laws.

    He was denounced by the likes of Tim Rideout, because they knew better, my friend was talking shite.

    When my colleague asked for evidence to the contrary, well it led to abusive emails and phone calls to my colleague.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Only from the PB Tories.






    Only on PB.

    Oh how I've not missed this particular chestnut.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Andy_JS said:

    Smartphone users:

    (a) We don't like the fact we spend so much time on our smartphones.
    (b) Let's force the 25% of people who don't use them to buy one by making life impossible without one.

    Makes sense doesn't it.

    I don't think (a) is a majority position.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Smartphone users:

    (a) We don't like the fact we spend so much time on our smartphones.
    (b) Let's force the 25% of people who don't use them to buy one by making life impossible without one.

    Makes sense doesn't it.

    Evidence for (a) please.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    On excess deaths the UK is firmly mid-table and the infections aren't comparable given the scale of testing here.

    The government is taking criticism on international comparisons because it is being transparent over deaths, we're basically the only country in the world that is reporting more covid deaths than excess deaths, for example. We also have an incredible level of data transparency in cases because of the weekly ONS report that no other country has so far replicated.

    Once this is all done and the real statistics all come out the UK response will look very much like every other disorganised Western European country, not better or worse just more honest about the situation.
    You are just making assumptions that suit your agenda. I do not believe that there is anything uniquely transparent or honest about the UKs covid reporting statistics.
    Ahem

    *Deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

    "For any reason" is probably the most honest part.

    We could, I suppose have determined instead "Deaths specifically attributable to Covid within 28 days of a positive test". The figures might look better on that metric.

    What percentage of the people who died within 28 days of having Covid would have died during that period if they hadn't caught the virus? Very few I would imagine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    On excess deaths the UK is firmly mid-table and the infections aren't comparable given the scale of testing here.

    The government is taking criticism on international comparisons because it is being transparent over deaths, we're basically the only country in the world that is reporting more covid deaths than excess deaths, for example. We also have an incredible level of data transparency in cases because of the weekly ONS report that no other country has so far replicated.

    Once this is all done and the real statistics all come out the UK response will look very much like every other disorganised Western European country, not better or worse just more honest about the situation.
    You are just making assumptions that suit your agenda. I do not believe that there is anything uniquely transparent or honest about the UKs covid reporting statistics.
    Ahem

    *Deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

    "For any reason" is probably the most honest part.

    We could, I suppose have determined instead "Deaths specifically attributable to Covid within 28 days of a positive test". The figures might look better on that metric.

    What percentage of the people who died within 28 days of having Covid would have died during that period if they hadn't caught the virus? Very few I would imagine.
    It's not just that, it's "with covid" and "from covid". The fact is that countries use different metrics to track it. The UK's is just particularly generous.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    Only from the PB Tories.






    Only on PB.

    Oh how I've not missed this particular chestnut.
    It was apropos of nothing.

    In a fit of nostalgia, I just posted it for old Tim’s sake.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Only from the PB Tories.






    Only on PB.

    Were you expecting someone other than PB Tories to be doing the PB Tory thing somewhere other than on PB?

    Weird.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Only from the PB Tories.






    Only on PB.

    Were you expecting someone other than PB Tories to be doing the PB Tory thing somewhere other than on PB?

    Weird.
    All I know is that PB Tories are never wrong and always learn.
  • OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    The UK has now vaccinated more people than the whole of the EU put together.

    The EU are going to totally lose their shit.

    When a country is hit by a pandemic the objective of the government has to be to minimise deaths and minimise the economic impact.

    If, when the dust settles, the UK has done as poorly as it is currently doing on both metrics, the fact that it rolled out the vaccines a few weeks earlier than the rest of Europe won't be much consolation.

    I take my hat off to those that worked on our vaccination efforts, it has, so far, been a great success. At the end of the day though it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
    There are three objectives, you've omitted one.

    They are to minimise deaths, minimise the economic impact and minimise the duration of the pandemic.

    If we roll out our vaccines a few months earlier than the rest of Europe then yes that will cut short the duration by a matter of months.

    It will also save lives, it will also allow us to have a few months fewer of closure and a few months more of recovery.

    For seasonal hospitality businesses many companies will have faced a horrendous and unprecedented situation of essentially three winters in a row. The vaccine means hopefully we can have a spring and summer this year. For unvaccinated nations they could be facing a fourth then fifth winter this year instead.

    If you think we might end our pandemic months earlier and that won't filter through to the deathtoll and economic figures then that is frankly not credulous.
    Of course the vaccination process will have an impact on deaths and the economy but my point is that if we are still at the top end of the deaths per million and the top end of the fall in GDP at the end of it all then the government has failed and the fact that we rolled out vaccines quickly simply means that we didn't fail as badly as we would have.

    We're not going to be though.

    There are already coming out new forecasts that the UK could regain its lost economic output by the end of the year. Due to sluggish Q1 we'll still be down annualised, but we could by Q4 be back to pre-pandemic levels.

    That is remarkable - and it is not being projected for the likes of France, Spain, Italy and Portugal etc or even Germany that are still dealing with the pandemic months after us.

    Our recovery will begin faster and harder than other countries.
    You really have no idea whether that will be the case, you just hope it will. A couple of years from now we will know which economies came out of it best. Boris-style optimism based on SFA doesn't cut it.
    I do have an idea it should be the case.

    There is a tremendous world of difference between businesses being able to trade as per normal this spring and summer, or businesses being compelled to maintain social distancing and this summer being a fourth winter in a row (with a fifth winter this winter).

    For many companies struggling to hang on the months earlier reopening of the economy over Spring and Summer will make a tremendous impact and you're in denial if you think it won't have any impact at all.
This discussion has been closed.