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YouGov poll restricted to England has Remain with a 10% lead if the 2016 Brexit referendum was held

SystemSystem Posts: 12,128
edited January 2021 in General
imageYouGov poll restricted to England has Remain with a 10% lead if the 2016 Brexit referendum was held now – politicalbetting.com

YouGov has released details of its England only weekend poll for the Sunday Times and the panel above shows some interesting findings.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    edited January 2021
    1st like the Tory Covid death toll
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Today Labour sounds like the collective pressure group for the public sector.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/keir-starmer-labour-covid-b901186.html

    Osborne's take on Sir Keir.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I think the last 24 hours might have moved the dial a touch......
  • That's pretty much where I am. Leaving was a mistake. Rejoining is not a priority.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    I would vote to join the EU in a referendum on that question, but I'm less emphatic on that then I was on my vote to Remain. Not because I'm anti-change, but because a lot of the damage done by leaving has happened now, and it can't simply be undone. That egg is broken.

    We have to build a new relationship with Europe from the beginning. I hope that will result in the mutual respect that would make EU membership work, but I think a lot of the country is not there yet.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    LibDem
  • Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    Of course it has a point. It's a proxy for 'Have you noticed yet what a clusterfuck Brexit is turning out to be?', and therefore gives some advance warning of political trends to come.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Next week: 4% more Leave voters prefer hamsters to guinea pigs, whilst 16% of Remain voters would consider keeping a lizard....
  • We've now seen two recent examples of the police giving the Covid-19 rules complete contempt.
    This is going to end badly.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Point of order.
    Thinking Scotland or Wales would be worse off is not the same as opposing a change of their status.
    That wasn't asked.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    I get people are curious about shifting public opinion, but at some point we are going to have to stop polling the 2016 referendum. Polling on a hypothetical new referendum I understand, but the value of polling a past vote seems tenuous to me. We don't poll people on how they'd vote if the 2015 election happened again - and with good reason (even if the results were interesting they'd be useless).

    Although, if we are going to do this, can we have a one-off poll of 'Imagine it was 1997 and you were about to vote in the general election, with Tony Blair being Leader of the Opposition and John Major as Prime Minister. How would you vote?' I kinda suspect Blair would now have a much weaker lead, but Major isn't exactly beloved by modern Tories either. The LD brand is now awful to most of the public, so I wonder what people would say?
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    What I find interesting in the polling is the party splits. The Tory position on the EU is straight forward, the challenge is the position that the other parties will have to take at the next general election. Unfortunately this is an issue which is likely to divide the country for decades to come. Not sure how Labour and the Liberal Democrats deal with that challenge.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Omnium said:

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    LibDem
    No point. None.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK local R

    image
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Surprised rejoin is so high.
    Seems a lot of bloody hassle on top of the last lot of unnecessary hassle.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Omnium said:

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    LibDem
    No point. None.
    Oh no - every point. Just none scored.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    Of course it has a point. It's a proxy for 'Have you noticed yet what a clusterfuck Brexit is turning out to be?', and therefore gives some advance warning of political trends to come.
    It still uses the now-ancient terminology of Remain.

    We're gone, honey.

    Poll asking about Rejoin, if you really want to get an idea of future trends. Then add supplementaries about the Euro, etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    ....and me. Makes me resent the English Exceptionalists who got us into this mess SLIGHTLY more charitably.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Omnium said:

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    LibDem
    No point. None.
    We look forward to your temporary absence from PB then.

    Cheerio.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    dixiedean said:

    Surprised rejoin is so high.
    Seems a lot of bloody hassle on top of the last lot of unnecessary hassle.

    On the contrary, unless you're a political obsessive then most of the hassle of Brexit would have passed you by.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,457
    edited January 2021
    So who is going to win the dickhead question of the day at the press conference?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK Deaths

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK R

    From case data

    image
    image

    From hospitalisations

    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.

    We should have closed the airports last March. Not sure why we didn't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Age related data

    image
    image
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So who is going to win the dickhead question of the day at the press conference?

    I'm already ready to scream at the reporter on Sky and this is pre press conference
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited January 2021
    UK vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    dixiedean said:

    Surprised rejoin is so high.
    Seems a lot of bloody hassle on top of the last lot of unnecessary hassle.

    On the contrary, unless you're a political obsessive then most of the hassle of Brexit would have passed you by.
    So, the impact wasn't as earth shattering as we were led to believe?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Floater said:

    So who is going to win the dickhead question of the day at the press conference?

    I'm already ready to scream at the reporter on Sky and this is pre press conference
    "Why wont you respond to pressure to unlock now, so that can I ask you tomorrow whether you have unlocked too soon?"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,457
    edited January 2021

    Floater said:

    So who is going to win the dickhead question of the day at the press conference?

    I'm already ready to scream at the reporter on Sky and this is pre press conference
    "Why wont you respond to pressure to unlock now, so that can I ask you tomorrow whether you have unlocked too soon?"
    It outrageous that you are shutting the borders, it is outrageous that there won't be any foreign summer holidays.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    dixiedean said:

    Surprised rejoin is so high.
    Seems a lot of bloody hassle on top of the last lot of unnecessary hassle.

    It's not Rejoin - I suspect for most people remain means reset back to how things were in 2016.

    And that just isn't possible.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FWIW this is the head of the EMA talking about restricting the AZ vaccines to certain age groups

    FF43 said:



    The sensible thing is to wait until the EMA delivers its expected authorisation and conditions for the Astrazeneca vaccine on Friday. They are not going to make mistakes like this. The problem is the widespread repetition as fact of unsubstantiated and unattributed assertion. Not just a German problem, I have to say...

    There is speculation that the EMA will not authorise the AZ vaccine for over 65s. If this happens, I suspect a risk of people coming to the conclusion that the vaccine is unsafe, rather than that the EMA lacks the data to support authorisation, hopefully a temporary situation until the data can be procured.

    If they do not authorise it there will be a very good reason. As far as I can tell there isn't one, so they will.

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1354105104631267328
    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1354105644270448643
    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1354106463988424704
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    So who is going to win the dickhead question of the day at the press conference?

    I'm already ready to scream at the reporter on Sky and this is pre press conference
    "Why wont you respond to pressure to unlock now, so that can I ask you tomorrow whether you have unlocked too soon?"
    It outrageous that you are shutting the borders, it is outrageous that there won't be any summer holidays.
    Basically ..... but also complaining about not enough restrictions...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Floater said:

    dixiedean said:

    Surprised rejoin is so high.
    Seems a lot of bloody hassle on top of the last lot of unnecessary hassle.

    On the contrary, unless you're a political obsessive then most of the hassle of Brexit would have passed you by.
    So, the impact wasn't as earth shattering as we were led to believe?
    I'm talking more about the political wrangling: the negotiations, the meaningful votes, the amendments, the second referendum campaigns, etc. To most people it was just meaningless background noise. The immediate practical impact of Brexit itself has been buried by Covid.
  • No announcement of the hotel quarantine....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Did Bozo forget something? Hotels???
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889

    Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    According to the Conservative Party Handbook of Things to Say at the Drop of a Hat, the Brexit strategy and process, under the guidance and control of Boris Johnson, was an unmitigated success. Therefore, with an 80 seat majority in Parliament, we Conservatives can do whatever we like, we will always have an 80 seat majority, and everybody else is redundant.

    But this poll shows that things are unravelling in Toryland. How soon can the decent, responsible Conservatives reclaim their party? And which side will Mr Mark be on?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Age related data

    image
    image

    That 85+ hospitalisation drop off is excellent, definitely a notable drop vs the rest.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    Floater said:

    I think the last 24 hours might have moved the dial a touch......

    The last 24 hours have certainly reinforced my view that the UK will eventually have to rejoin the EU. But, I wonder if that was not your point!

    The fact is that conflict between countries is not helpful in times of global emergency and while it might make good click bate for the gutter press countries fighting each other does not get the economies of the world back working and people protected from covid. Only working together does that.

    I am always taken by the phrase, if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to far go together. We have a long way to go so going far is the long term priority.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited January 2021


    Asking is different to demanding, but it's a terrible look. They have really messed this up big time.

    Yes indeed, though at least they are not at the first stage of universal government responses, which is pretend there is no problem at all.
    Isn't that the guy who got mad at Andrew Neil for being a rabid left winger?

    New campaign hobby horse...Tories winning under FPTP is undemocratic, so we need to have a new system. I don't think he was very happy that other direct democratic system based on a pure majority that led to Brexit either.

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1353847990788698112?s=19

    I think some form of PR would be better, but when people are pretty clear it's a partisan reason that they are against the current system it makes it harder to argue as people assume anyone arguing for change is doign so for that reason.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Did Bozo forget something? Hotels???

    Nope - announcements are only made when the thing is inevitable and unavoidable it's not inevitable yet
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    kle4 said:

    New campaign hobby horse...Tories winning under FPTP is undemocratic, so we need to have a new system. I don't think he was very happy that other direct democratic system based on a pure majority that led to Brexit either.

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1353847990788698112?s=19

    I think some form of PR would be better, but when people are pretty clear it's a partisan reason that they are against the current system it makes it harder to argue as people assume anyone arguing for change is doign so for that reason.
    I like it best when people design a system for partisan reasons and then that system turns round and bites them on the arse, a teeny bit of restorative Karma.
    If only we had such an example close to hand...
  • MaxPB said:


    That 85+ hospitalisation drop off is excellent, definitely a notable drop vs the rest.

    Yes, it's encouraging. I hope we're going to get some figures on vaccinated vs unvaccinated hospitalisations soon, preferably 'vaccinated more than 18 days ago' or something similar.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,457
    edited January 2021
    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    MaxPB said:

    Age related data

    image
    image

    That 85+ hospitalisation drop off is excellent, definitely a notable drop vs the rest.
    Which also implies serious efficacy of the vaccine? But it will be Pfizer...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    MaxPB said:

    Age related data

    image
    image

    That 85+ hospitalisation drop off is excellent, definitely a notable drop vs the rest.
    But cases is not showing such an effect. Hmmmmm

    image
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Stupid question from LauraK. ...again. Where is Vicki Young when you need a sensible question?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,598
    johnt said:

    Floater said:

    I think the last 24 hours might have moved the dial a touch......

    I am always taken by the phrase, if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to far go together. We have a long way to go so going far is the long term priority.
    By the time you get to 'far' you might find you are in the wrong place.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Huge drop off in cases again today, lockdown is definitely making a difference and as someone mentioned yesterday, I think there's a positive effect of doctors and nurses being mostly immunised at this stage. Hopefully that's cutting transmission rates in hospitals significantly and is partly why the rate of contraction in the virus is accelerating.
  • What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,826

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    The policy will hugely crush the number of travelers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    The EMA has now also confirmed that the 8% story was a total lie/error


    https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/1354114331584180224?s=20


    Surely, someone must get sacked? Or does Germany just tolerate this kind of globally disastrous ineptitude?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    Then ban the flights.
  • RobD said:

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    The policy will hugely crush the number of travelers.
    But not at the start.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    The Times saying 48h until they open because they need to be prepared for incoming arrivals from the three countries and it will be two or three weeks until the scheme is expanded to all incoming travellers as has already been agreed.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    Then you only let in as many passengers as you have space to accommodate at any one time.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,118

    UK vaccinations

    image

    Do you know why the drop for Sunday and Monday? i could understand a weekend drop but the Saturday figures are high. Are the numbers all "for previous day" or something?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,826

    RobD said:

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    The policy will hugely crush the number of travelers.
    But not at the start.
    Get the army to stick up some tents on the unused runway at Heathrow.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,826
    pm215 said:

    UK vaccinations

    image

    Do you know why the drop for Sunday and Monday? i could understand a weekend drop but the Saturday figures are high. Are the numbers all "for previous day" or something?
    I think it's a two-day lag, rather than a one-day lag.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    johnt said:

    Floater said:

    I think the last 24 hours might have moved the dial a touch......

    The last 24 hours have certainly reinforced my view that the UK will eventually have to rejoin the EU. But, I wonder if that was not your point!

    The fact is that conflict between countries is not helpful in times of global emergency and while it might make good click bate for the gutter press countries fighting each other does not get the economies of the world back working and people protected from covid. Only working together does that.

    I am always taken by the phrase, if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to far go together. We have a long way to go so going far is the long term priority.
    If only we were providing vaccines as slow as the EU eh?

    And threatening counties outside the EU because we were lashing out at our own incompetence.

    I think you might be a minority view.
  • 100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.

    Tbf the UK killed a lot more civilians that weren't British in WWII.
    After last night's and today's EUrophobic spasm, can't rule it out..
  • What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    Then you only let in as many passengers as you have space to accommodate at any one time.
    Human rights and the fact to be honest some passengers don't have the resources to stay overseas longer.

    (Personally I think the overwhelming majority of people who went overseas during a pandemic deserve to stay out there.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited January 2021
    pm215 said:

    UK vaccinations

    image

    Do you know why the drop for Sunday and Monday? i could understand a weekend drop but the Saturday figures are high. Are the numbers all "for previous day" or something?
    Certainly looks that way. It's number by report date.

    Some people will be very pleased by the use of 'Data are'.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

    People who have received vaccinations, by report date (daily): Number of people who have received a vaccination for COVID-19, by day on which the vaccine was reported. Data are reported daily, and include all vaccination events that are entered on the relevant system at the time of extract. This includes reported vaccines that were administered up to and including the date shown
  • Looks like Boris Johnson has seen some focus groups/polling that shows over 100,000 deaths and his popularity tanks hence this press conference.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    Then you only let in as many passengers as you have space to accommodate at any one time.
    Human rights and the fact to be honest some passengers don't have the resources to stay overseas longer.

    (Personally I think the overwhelming majority of people who went overseas during a pandemic deserve to stay out there.)
    There are still 10,000s of Aussies stranded abroad by their policy

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/09/australians-stranded-overseas-say-slashing-arrival-caps-makes-returning-home-near-impossible
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    RobD said:

    pm215 said:

    UK vaccinations

    image

    Do you know why the drop for Sunday and Monday? i could understand a weekend drop but the Saturday figures are high. Are the numbers all "for previous day" or something?
    I think it's a two-day lag, rather than a one-day lag.
    Yes - the figure for the release say "up to the day before". But the data that came in on that day is probably the data from the day before that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Leon said:

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    The EMA has now also confirmed that the 8% story was a total lie/error


    https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/1354114331584180224?s=20


    Surely, someone must get sacked? Or does Germany just tolerate this kind of globally disastrous ineptitude?
    I predict that some lawyers will make a lot of money.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630
    edited January 2021
    Scottish residents, recommendations please?

    I'm going to move to Scotland. Decision made today. I don't have any particular region in mind, though, so would love your input on locations to help me narrow things down.

    Easy access to the highlands is a must, so I'm ruling out Borders/Dumfries/Ayrshire. I like to cycle a bit, so if there's any place with lots of long-distance cycle paths that would be great. Things like segregated cycle ways next to dual carriageways are fine but I don't want to be forced to wobble along the kerb of a narrow 60mph road. I don't really need much access to cities since I work from home and I'm more into books than theatre. I'm fine with the wind and rain and dark winters and midges. Connectivity in terms of broadband is important, and in terms of parcel delivery without having to pay extra is a nice to have (not sure if that is an issue any more?)

    Anything else I haven't mentioned that I should be thinking about?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    edited January 2021

    100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.

    Tbf the UK killed a lot more civilians that weren't British in WWII.
    After last night's and today's EUrophobic spasm, can't rule it out..
    Operation Hurricane on Handelsblatt.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,826
    Leon said:

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    The EMA has now also confirmed that the 8% story was a total lie/error


    https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/1354114331584180224?s=20


    Surely, someone must get sacked? Or does Germany just tolerate this kind of globally disastrous ineptitude?
    But the story had been totally confirmed with multiple sources!

    Unbelievable they haven't issued an urgent retraction.
  • Leon said:

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    The EMA has now also confirmed that the 8% story was a total lie/error


    https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/1354114331584180224?s=20


    Surely, someone must get sacked? Or does Germany just tolerate this kind of globally disastrous ineptitude?
    Perhaps a strong letter to the German embassy from the UK's premier flint dildo knapper may get things moving?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    We should be very grateful: This means more jabs for Brits!

    If other countries are stupid enough not to authorise, that's their problem.

    (In the interests of full disclosure, I would just note that Fauci said on Sunday that he expects AZN to be authorized after J&J in the US, so it isn't just the EU that is having an issue with it.)
  • Really - who gives a fuck about this polling?

    Me.
    Why? It has no point. None.
    Of course it has a point. It's a proxy for 'Have you noticed yet what a clusterfuck Brexit is turning out to be?', and therefore gives some advance warning of political trends to come.
    It still uses the now-ancient terminology of Remain.

    We're gone, honey.

    Poll asking about Rejoin, if you really want to get an idea of future trends. Then add supplementaries about the Euro, etc.
    Two thoughts;

    One is that the simple reading of this is that there's a significant sense of "this has turned out to be a bit of a cockup"; this is England, the Brexity bit of the UK. (England was 53-47 in 2016). Is that linked to the lack of a stonking Brexit Bounce in the polls? That might change if things go well, of course. But otherwise, the government has a signature achievement that isn't raising loud hosannas. Awkward.

    The other is the size of gap between "rerun Leave/Remain" and "Stay out/Rejoin". Smaller than I'd have thought. 40% rejoin, and only 2% behind stay out? In England? OK, that might change subject to events and the reality of what rejoin would look like, but this is larger than I'd have expected.

    And for those who want the issue to fade away? (For clarity: I'd rather gently, quietly, uncontroversially move back up Barnier's Staircase over the next decade, then see where we are as a nation.) But on these figures, that doesn't look like a goer. Sorry.
  • I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    SHOCKED, of Paris.

  • 100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.

    Tbf the UK killed a lot more civilians that weren't British in WWII.
    After last night's and today's EUrophobic spasm, can't rule it out..
    You are a sick tw*t, even by nationalist standards
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe what was posted by some people on the last thread about Handelsblatt. The story is STILL up. The tweets from the journalists are STILL up. They are STILL being spread. This has ALREADY gone around the world. This is INSANELY dangerous.

    While not quite as stupid and ignorant as Owls with his placebo remarks last night, anyone playing down Handelsblatt's irresponsibility is being as dumb as ass.

    The EMA has now also confirmed that the 8% story was a total lie/error


    https://twitter.com/StefanLeifert/status/1354114331584180224?s=20


    Surely, someone must get sacked? Or does Germany just tolerate this kind of globally disastrous ineptitude?
    But the story had been totally confirmed with multiple sources!

    Unbelievable they haven't issued an urgent retraction.
    It really is bizarre. Are they just sitting back in the Handelsblatt office saying "oops" and then carrying on as normal??

    And if the journalist was right, and he was briefed by multiple sources in the German government and elsewhere.... WTAF?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,664
    Can anyone explain this?

    Daily deaths with Covid on Death Certificate to 15/01/21 - 107,907

    Weekly deaths with Covid on Death Certificate to 15/01/21 - 103,602

    Open link and click on data in the two charts:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
  • 100,000 dead. In 10 months.

    WW2 70,000 civilian dead. In six years.

    Tragic, and so many were avoidable.

    Tbf the UK killed a lot more civilians that weren't British in WWII.
    After last night's and today's EUrophobic spasm, can't rule it out..
    Operation Hurricane on Handelsblatt.
    Those sausage eating hacks have sowed the wind, now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    What is taking the government so long to announce this hotel quarantine....there has to be disagreement in government and they are going to do some flawed fudge like airbridges.

    Isn't it something to do with the number of rooms at airport hotels isn't sufficient to deal with the number of passengers expected?
    Then you only let in as many passengers as you have space to accommodate at any one time.
    Human rights and the fact to be honest some passengers don't have the resources to stay overseas longer.

    (Personally I think the overwhelming majority of people who went overseas during a pandemic deserve to stay out there.)
    Firstly, the right for the entire country not to be decimated by HyperCovid, and for the survivors not to spend another entire sodding year in lockdown, trumps the right for stupid fucks to come back from their sunshine holidays in Dubai.

    Secondly, if there's anyone who's completely destitute then frankly the cost of bunging them some cash every week would be infinitesimal, relative to that of locking down for another entire sodding year.

    At this stage of the game, almost everyone in the land is willing to do virtually anything to be rid of the damned virus. I'm quite sure that includes making some of our own people overseas wait to come back home if there's not enough room for them all to return safely at once.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    Scottish residents, recommendations please?

    I'm going to move to Scotland. Decision made today. I don't have any particular region in mind, though, so would love your input on locations to help me narrow things down.

    Easy access to the highlands is a must, so I'm ruling out Borders/Dumfries/Ayrshire. I like to cycle a bit, so if there's any place with lots of long-distance cycle paths that would be great. Things like segregated cycle ways next to dual carriageways are fine but I don't want to be forced to wobble along the kerb of a narrow 60mph road. I don't really need much access to cities since I work from home and I'm more into books than theatre. I'm fine with the wind and rain and dark winters and midges. Connectivity in terms of broadband is important, and in terms of parcel delivery without having to pay extra is a nice to have (not sure if that is an issue any more?)

    Anything else I haven't mentioned that I should be thinking about?

    Around Oban allows ready trips on the ferries to the Outer Hebs, but also allows access to Glasgow within two and a half hours.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    On topic. Brexit IS done. I totally accept this and am not agitating for Rejoin. It's imo losing (and will continue to shed) its heat as a mainstream political issue. But the social, intellectual & cultural divide it carved through the nation will, I fear, be longlasting.

    Take me. I'm no Remainiac extremist or Remoaner about what happened. I voted Remain but recognized the democratic necessity to implement the result. Never held any truck with another Referendum. Always a ridiculous notion. Yet I have a new and stubborn identity - Remainer. I am still a Remainer in this sense. As defined against its opposite, Leaver. And it's such a powerful ID.

    For example, thinking about moving house, the 1st thing I will check for a prospective area is how it voted in the 2016 EU Referendum. If it's Leave, and especially if it's strongly Leave, I will strike it out without a moment's further thought. Why waste time. Similarly, if I were vibrant enough to be Tinder dating, and I saw a profile which looked great except (oh no) Leaver, that would be it. Swipe left.

    And something even more poignant. My son is due to get engaged soon to his sweetheart from Essex (lovely girl) and I'm delighted. But would I be quite so delighted if I had not discovered to my immense relief that she was one of the few people from her part of Essex who had voted Remain? No, I don't believe I would have been. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have been all arsey about it, but it would have detracted from things and been both a worry and a disappointment.

    I don't say this is a good thing - it isn't - but it is a thing. That's what Brexit has done to this country and its people. The economic hit, the masses of red tape, the loss of precious freedoms is only the half of it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Scottish residents, recommendations please?

    I'm going to move to Scotland. Decision made today. I don't have any particular region in mind, though, so would love your input on locations to help me narrow things down.

    Easy access to the highlands is a must, so I'm ruling out Borders/Dumfries/Ayrshire. I like to cycle a bit, so if there's any place with lots of long-distance cycle paths that would be great. Things like segregated cycle ways next to dual carriageways are fine but I don't want to be forced to wobble along the kerb of a narrow 60mph road. I don't really need much access to cities since I work from home and I'm more into books than theatre. I'm fine with the wind and rain and dark winters and midges. Connectivity in terms of broadband is important, and in terms of parcel delivery without having to pay extra is a nice to have (not sure if that is an issue any more?)

    Anything else I haven't mentioned that I should be thinking about?

    If you don't mind being quite a long way from anywhere else Inverness is a lovely town with a theatre, with lots of good cycling round about it and a small airport. Obviously well placed not only for the great glen and the surrounding hills but easy passage up to the north west if you are looking for something more remote.
  • Floater said:

    johnt said:

    Floater said:

    I think the last 24 hours might have moved the dial a touch......

    The last 24 hours have certainly reinforced my view that the UK will eventually have to rejoin the EU. But, I wonder if that was not your point!

    The fact is that conflict between countries is not helpful in times of global emergency and while it might make good click bate for the gutter press countries fighting each other does not get the economies of the world back working and people protected from covid. Only working together does that.

    I am always taken by the phrase, if you want to go fast go alone, if you want to far go together. We have a long way to go so going far is the long term priority.
    If only we were providing vaccines as slow as the EU eh?

    And threatening counties outside the EU because we were lashing out at our own incompetence.

    I think you might be a minority view.
    While the roll out of the vaccine program is so far to be commended, we have a long long way to go to be able to gloat at other countries for our government's competence. The words Johnson and competence are oxymoronic
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    O/T - My parents received their first dose today.

    As did I.

    I feel special.

    Well done to all three of you.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662
    Re thread header......but the referendum isn't being held now. All this retrospective polling is pointless. We left and that's the end of the story for at least 30 yrs.. We remainers had our chance and we lost. That is democracy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    The presser has descended into bumbling bollocks from Johnson after the questions.
  • One for @Charles and @MaxPB

    If the Covid-19 vaccine becomes an annual thing like the flu vaccine, are we primus inter pares in future supplies or will we have to fight out all over. again?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    An actually fascinating Robert Peston thread, explaining the whole AZ/EU dispute

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1354019140084916225?s=20


    The EU does not come out well. I particularly enjoyed this comment

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1354019151690522624?s=20
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021

    Scottish residents, recommendations please?

    I'm going to move to Scotland. Decision made today. I don't have any particular region in mind, though, so would love your input on locations to help me narrow things down.

    Easy access to the highlands is a must, so I'm ruling out Borders/Dumfries/Ayrshire. I like to cycle a bit, so if there's any place with lots of long-distance cycle paths that would be great. Things like segregated cycle ways next to dual carriageways are fine but I don't want to be forced to wobble along the kerb of a narrow 60mph road. I don't really need much access to cities since I work from home and I'm more into books than theatre. I'm fine with the wind and rain and dark winters and midges. Connectivity in terms of broadband is important, and in terms of parcel delivery without having to pay extra is a nice to have (not sure if that is an issue any more?)

    Anything else I haven't mentioned that I should be thinking about?

    I'm biased but I'd say the Greater Glasgow area is best for the highlands, several pleasant wee towns north of Glasgow that are literally less than an hour from the highlands proper.
    I believe cycle routes are getting more and more developed but I haven't done much being a lazy barsteward, and none at all since my bike was nicked.
    Pretty sure broadband would be ok in that area but it definitely drops off the farther north and west you go.
This discussion has been closed.