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Sturgeon’s planned “go it alone” IndyRef2 poses problems for the bookies as well as Boris – politica

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited January 2021 in General
imageSturgeon’s planned “go it alone” IndyRef2 poses problems for the bookies as well as Boris – politicalbetting.com

 Sturgeon’s statement yesterday that she intends to hold what she describes as a “legal referendum” on independence from the UK if she wins the Scottish elections scheduled for May certainly puts her on a collision course with Boris who opposes opposes another secession vote.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    Nicola marching her troops up to the top of the hill....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    Nicola marching her troops up to the top of the hill....

    ....to give her covering fire from Salmond's troops.

  • Nicola would be most unwise to hold an unauthorised referendum. Shades of Catalonia!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
  • rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Our current Home Secretary wanted to starve the Irish to get a good Brexit deal.

    Politicians are twats when trying to boost their popularity. WHO KNEW?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited January 2021
    A bloody mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Haven't wars started over less? ;)
  • Nicola would be most unwise to hold an unauthorised referendum. Shades of Catalonia!

    The UK is not a Franco dictatorship.

    The EU didn't authorise the UK's 2016 referendum did it? And if the Scottish Parliament does have the authority to hold a 2016-style advisory referendum then the Scottish Parliament has no need to request authorisation either - and winning a referendum, even an advisory one, would set the stage for everything that follows. Just as the UK's did in 2016.

    It is debatable as to whether Holyrood does have the power. I expect it to be taken to the Supreme Court to decide - if they decide it does (since its advisory) then its legally authorised per Betfair terms surely?
  • Britain manages 220,000 coronavirus vaccines in Sunday slowdown with fewer than half as many as record-breaking Saturday as NHS misses internal target of reaching all care home residents by January 24

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184795/Britain-manages-220-000-coronavirus-vaccines-Sunday-slowdown-early-figures-show.html

    ITS A DISASTTTTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Yeah, but he's a doctor and everything.

    I fear for our manufacturing base on Alderaan.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    Britain manages 220,000 coronavirus vaccines in Sunday slowdown with fewer than half as many as record-breaking Saturday as NHS misses internal target of reaching all care home residents by January 24

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184795/Britain-manages-220-000-coronavirus-vaccines-Sunday-slowdown-early-figures-show.html

    ITS A DISASTTTTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...

    They really are hopeless, aren't they? This pandemic has been a total eyeopener in that respect.
  • rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Our current Home Secretary wanted to starve the Irish to get a good Brexit deal.
    Mind you, given how bad the deal we got was, maybe she had a point?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    At which Boris and the Unionists point and laugh.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    What do you expect if you're trying to pinch our vaccine:

    https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1353730587350212608?s=20
  • A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    A Unionist boycott would be the SNP's biggest nightmare as they would lose credibility in Scotland as well as enabling Westminster to reject the referendum. Nicola is certainly playing for high stakes here. Not something to do again and again!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited January 2021

    Britain manages 220,000 coronavirus vaccines in Sunday slowdown with fewer than half as many as record-breaking Saturday as NHS misses internal target of reaching all care home residents by January 24

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184795/Britain-manages-220-000-coronavirus-vaccines-Sunday-slowdown-early-figures-show.html

    ITS A DISASTTTTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...

    Indeed, I'm waiting for when low vaccine numbers and murder Tuesday coincide.

    The Mail will run out of tissues.
  • A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    At which Boris and the Unionists point and laugh.
    If you don't vote, you don't get a say. That's normal politics.

    A win is a win is a win.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    What do you expect if you're trying to pinch our vaccine:

    https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1353730587350212608?s=20

    Boo hoo. Either they are a country, in which case they get full accreditation, and the possibility to give their credentials to HM, or they are an international organization.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    At which Boris and the Unionists point and laugh.
    If you don't vote, you don't get a say. That's normal politics.

    A win is a win is a win.
    Not on something with such an utterly dismal turnout.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on 35% turnout would be my guess.

    Yeah, sounds plausible, although I suspect turnout would be lower.

    The last thing the SNP want is for the election to be about education etc. hence ramping up Indy. Placates the hard-core (and there is definitely a party management issue in play) and distracts from what appears to be a less than impressive performance on the vaccination roll-out. Also they may be slightly (very slightly) concerned about SLAB coming back to life under Sarwar. Making everything about Indy is the best way of stifling a Labour revival.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    Weren't we supposed to be the ones going begging to them for vital supplies by now?
    The "punishment beating" strategy? That one?

    It must REALLY be pissing off the EU that those pesky Brits are jabbing and saving their Brexit-votig oldies, whilst true-blooded EU veterans are dying from the virus....they didn't order.
  • rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Our current Home Secretary wanted to starve the Irish to get a good Brexit deal.
    Mind you, given how bad the deal we got was, maybe she had a point?
    Then again just think how bad the deal could have been if we didn't hold all the cards.
  • Four people charged with criminal damage over the toppling of the statue of the slave trader Edward Colston in Bristol have opted to be tried before a judge and jury.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/25/four-charged-colston-statue-damage-bristol-tried-crown-court
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    On topic to post this one then:

    Salmond or Sturgeon: Which One Is Lying?

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/25/salmond-or-sturgeon-which-one-is-lying/

    (Gets in haggis flavoured popcorn, especially for Burns’ Night!)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Yeah, but he's a doctor and everything.

    I fear for our manufacturing base on Alderaan.....
    Come on @MarqueeMark, let's celebrate that we're doing well, and stop obsessing about the EU. Don't turn into a boring mirror image of @Scott_xP
  • RobD said:

    A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    At which Boris and the Unionists point and laugh.
    If you don't vote, you don't get a say. That's normal politics.

    A win is a win is a win.
    Not on something with such an utterly dismal turnout.
    Not really. A 90% win on a 35% turnout is the same number of Yes voters as if Yes won 52% on a 60.5% turnout.

    Playing with fire there to hand a victory to your opponents.
  • Nicola would be most unwise to hold an unauthorised referendum. Shades of Catalonia!

    The UK is not a Franco dictatorship.

    The EU didn't authorise the UK's 2016 referendum did it? And if the Scottish Parliament does have the authority to hold a 2016-style advisory referendum then the Scottish Parliament has no need to request authorisation either - and winning a referendum, even an advisory one, would set the stage for everything that follows. Just as the UK's did in 2016.

    It is debatable as to whether Holyrood does have the power. I expect it to be taken to the Supreme Court to decide - if they decide it does (since its advisory) then its legally authorised per Betfair terms surely?
    Indeed the UK is not a Franco dictatorship, but nor was Spain / Catalonia when Catalonia tried an unauthorised referendum on secession in 2017.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Vicar of Bath explores the timing challenges Sturgeon faces to deliver the originally promised "later this year":

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-rock-in-the-hard-place/
  • Sandpit said:

    On topic to post this one then:

    Salmond or Sturgeon: Which One Is Lying?

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/25/salmond-or-sturgeon-which-one-is-lying/

    (Gets in haggis flavoured popcorn, especially for Burns’ Night!)

    Are the options mutually exclusive?
  • A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on 35% turnout would be my guess.

    Yeah, sounds plausible, although I suspect turnout would be lower.

    The last thing the SNP want is for the election to be about education etc. hence ramping up Indy. Placates the hard-core (and there is definitely a party management issue in play) and distracts from what appears to be a less than impressive performance on the vaccination roll-out. Also they may be slightly (very slightly) concerned about SLAB coming back to life under Sarwar. Making everything about Indy is the best way of stifling a Labour revival.
    The turnout during the last referendum was 85%, so I'm guessing most of the Nats would turn out plus a few Unionists.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    RobD said:

    A blood mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    At which Boris and the Unionists point and laugh.
    If you don't vote, you don't get a say. That's normal politics.

    A win is a win is a win.
    Not on something with such an utterly dismal turnout.
    Not really. A 90% win on a 35% turnout is the same number of Yes voters as if Yes won 52% on a 60.5% turnout.

    Playing with fire there to hand a victory to your opponents.
    But the turnout was 85% last time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    1. New ScotParl votes to request authority for new referendum.

    2. U.K. Parliament votes it down 590ish to 48.

    What happens next?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited January 2021
    fpt
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Hancock is a worthy minister. Once this is over, he deserves some combination of promotion and time away from the trenches- Foreign Secretary is customary in that situation, is it not?

    Williamson wasn't worthy last time round. And he's not improved.
    I am on Hancock (now 36s bf) for next Cons leader.

    Rishi's fate will be in the hands of the extent of the furlough.

    I'm not sure there are too many other candidates. Raab perhaps. Gove I can't see it.
    Hunt would likely run again, if Sunak was not now a contender he might even win next time with Brexit no longer an issue and Corbyn defeated and no more
    That is a good point. Hunt might tempt me back to the Party.
    You're a diehard something or other.
    They don't want you back.
    If they want Hunt they want me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited January 2021
    5 Live’s Naga Munchetty has been speaking to former Australian foreign minister Alexander Downer after reports the UK might be having an "Australian style" quarantine system for people arriving in the country.

    He says Australian citizens need the permission of the government to leave the country so "in effect you can’t leave".

    Quite right....no popping to Barbados on a fictional "business trip".
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    We just fend them off for three months, they head off for Moscow and the Sputnik vaccine. Been here before.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Sorry your Royal Highness, its not a fecking "z"......

    https://twitter.com/ClarenceHouse/status/1353690091345096725?s=20
  • I did speak to a constitutional expert/lawyer this morning.

    He thinks what will happen is

    1) Scottish Government will ask for a referendum

    2) UK Government will say no

    3) Scottish Government holds one anyway and wins

    4) Scottish Government asks the UK Government to start talks on Scexit deal

    5) UK Government says no, the Scottish referendum has no weight as it wasn't a section 30 authorised referendum

    6) Scottish Government takes this to the courts

    7) SCOTUK will probably say the Scottish Government has acted outside its powers ending any talk of Scexit based on 3)

    8) However it may rule that a lawful referendum be granted (or ask the UK Government what exactly it considers the trigger for a S30 referendum) because if a party or parties committed to holding Indref2 consistently winning the popular vote/most/majority seats consistently at Westminster and Holyrood elections isn't a trigger then what is?

    9) The UK Government response to 8) could trigger all sorts of unintended consequences, I suspect the Belfast agreement and possibly the Australian marriage law postal survey maybe cited.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    A bloody mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    I think the virtual winning line for deriving some sort of moral authority in that scenario would be the 2 million No votes in 2014. Which would require 90% on 50% or thereabouts.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited January 2021
    In response to your point 8, Mr Eagles, if there were a majority of MPs in the Westminster Parliament in favour of Scottish Independence or of holding a referendum on such, then getting the referendum authoried would be easy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Cases still trending down admissions lagging, deaths still growing, but less quickly:


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    Might have something to do with the huge amount of investment made by HMG. About seven times as much as the EU.
    Or it might be, I dunno, because we've APPROVED THE FECKING VACCINE and are USING IT and the EU HASN'T and CAN'T.

    Why should they ship vaccine to the EU to gather dust in warehouses while a bunch of third rate politicians argue over who gets what eventually when the vaccine instead could be jabbed into arms to save lives?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    The true victims, such as bookies, are often overlooked.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    Might have something to do with the huge amount of investment made by HMG. About seven times as much as the EU.
    It's not just the money, we've been faster in approving, we were taking action back in last March or so, we've been onshoring key bits of supply, and crucially we hedged our bets and ordered an enormous number of doses from several vaccines. Of course if AZ had been a dud we'd be in trouble, so we've had some luck as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited January 2021
    Well timed subject, this, for me. Sindy2 timing is what I have fingered for my next BIG politics bet. I'm in the analysis stage atm, no money yet committed. I had been assuming that Betfair's "legal referendum" meant one sanctioned by Westminster, not just Holyrood, but I think I had better talk to Betfair and get this confirmed or otherwise - unless some shrewdie already has?
  • Sandpit said:

    1. New ScotParl votes to request authority for new referendum.

    2. U.K. Parliament votes it down 590ish to 48.

    What happens next?

    What even happens between 1 and 2? Early Day Motion?
  • Covid case rates in most regions of England are at their lowest level since before the start of 2021, latest figures show.

    In London, the rolling seven-day rate as of 20 January stood at 557.8 cases per 100,000 people - down from 770.6 a week earlier, and the lowest since the seven days to 16 December.

    In the south west the rate is 281.1, down from 351.1 and the lowest since 30 December, Public Health England data shows.

    But the picture is more mixed across the Midlands and northern England.

    Rates are down in every region, but not every area is quite back to levels last seen at the end of 2020.

    North-west England, for example, is currently recording a rate of 441.3 cases per 100,000, down from 557.3 for the previous week and the lowest since 1 January.

    Yorkshire & the Humber continues to record the lowest rate of any region: 241.2, down from 286.1.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Gaussian said:

    A bloody mess, if we have a Unionist boycott then I think it will play havoc with the secondary markets like turnout and share of the votes.

    Yes to win 90% of the vote on a 35% turnout would be my guess.

    I think the virtual winning line for deriving some sort of moral authority in that scenario would be the 2 million No votes in 2014. Which would require 90% on 50% or thereabouts.
    Yes. The question of what happens if they got more votes than No did in 2014 is where things would get really interesting.
    And by interesting, I mean messy and not to the PM's advantage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    I still cant see the downside for Sturgeon. It works or stirs up grievance, both positives, and would it really put people otherwise inclined toward independence?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    I did speak to a constitutional expert/lawyer this morning.

    He thinks what will happen is

    1) Scottish Government will ask for a referendum

    2) UK Government will say no

    3) Scottish Government holds one anyway and wins

    4) Scottish Government asks the UK Government to start talks on Scexit deal

    5) UK Government says no, the Scottish referendum has no weight as it wasn't a section 30 authorised referendum

    6) Scottish Government takes this to the courts

    7) SCOTUK will probably say the Scottish Government has acted outside its powers ending any talk of Scexit based on 3)

    8) However it may rule that a lawful referendum be granted (or ask the UK Government what exactly it considers the trigger for a S30 referendum) because if a party or parties committed to holding Indref2 consistently winning the popular vote/most/majority seats consistently at Westminster and Holyrood elections isn't a trigger then what is?

    9) The UK Government response to 8) could trigger all sorts of unintended consequences, I suspect the Belfast agreement and possibly the Australian marriage law postal survey maybe cited.

    Alternatively, they might offer to negotiate at stage 5 but offer such a brutal deal (Scottish border at Glasgow, all debts transferred to the Republic of Scotland, 50% tariffs on whisky, all fishing grounds to be controlled by the UK) that the Scots overwhelmingly reject it in a second referendum?

    Wouldn't put it past them...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    kinabalu said:

    Well timed subject, this, for me. Sindy2 timing is what I have fingered for my next BIG politics bet. I'm in the analysis stage atm, no money yet committed. I had been assuming that Betfair's "legal referendum" meant one sanctioned by Westminster, not just Holyrood, but I think I had better talk to Betfair and get that confirmed or otherwise - unless somebody already has?

    Theoretically, the referendum might also be deemed legal by the Supreme Court, under legal challenge from the Scottish government, once it’s been declined by the UK Parliament.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    Because it was the first batch produced and fewer places needed it at that time?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    edited January 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    I don't understand what they expect to happen? The UK has a domestic manufacturing requirement as part of the contract and in case they don't remember, AZ fucked up our initial delivery as well from 20m to 4m so it's not exactly an isolated incident.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Cases still trending down admissions lagging, deaths still growing, but less quickly:


    That's still a shed load of positives. Even if much down from the peak. Rapid rises and slower falls.
    Cue talk of reopening. Sigh!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited January 2021

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    The discussion started because EU politicians are furious that UK is getting vaccinated more quickly.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Hidden in a long twitter thread about the new Dominion Giulliani lawsuit is this gem, which probably highlights the real point of this case - as Discovery will allow them to see if they can tie Trump into this is anyway shape or form,

    https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1353716125834612736
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    Is the EU a forbidden subject? It's hardly surprising it gets talked about a lot, it is the UK's biggest neighbour after all. Not to mention that the story was directly related to the UK.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    It's a bit weird the EU are hinting that we should give up vaccines we're using so they can have a stockpile for an unspecified future date though.

    To be honest, it shows the unattractive side of the EU - the smugness, complacency and bone-headed stupidity coupled with a complete inability to actually think through issues in the round rather than merely how they affect their own little world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Then why do we constantly get told what bloody Redwood or Hanaan think about things?

    Either comments from random elected officials matter or they dont.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Then why do we constantly get told what bloody Redwood or Hanaan think about things?

    Either comments from random elected officials matter or they dont.
    Hannan thinks about things?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    A referendum which isn't legally authorised and internationally recognised is absolutely no use at all for the Nats, except to further stoke the already well-stoked grievance machine. They must know this, so there's a huge amount of bluster here.

    From the point of view of the Conservative government, I really can't see any upside to agreeing the referendum. Better to say No, ignore the fuss, and leave it to the next Labour PM to impale himself or herself on the spike.

    Surely you just have a unionist boycott and then dare the SNP to go for UDI based on a referendum process that would embarrass banana republics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    You haven't heard the next, logical suggestion, yet.

    It's bouncing around on Twitter. Only a matter of time before a politicians says it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    I don't understand what they expect to happen? The UK has a domestic manufacturing requirement as part of the contract and in case they don't remember, AZ fucked up our initial delivery as well from 20m to 4m so it's not exactly an isolated incident.
    Get out of here with your facts.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    Should he not be asking why AZN has not yet been authorised for use in the EU?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    You haven't heard the next, logical suggestion, yet.

    It's bouncing around on Twitter. Only a matter of time before a politicians says it.
    Does it have anything to do with bleach?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I wonder if this kind of referendum is wise, in many ways Sturgeon might be on to a loser as turnout will be low and Yes votes will be massively outnumbered by those apathetic to the whole stunt. There is a danger that the whole charade might put off some of the softer 'Yes' voters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Hancock is a worthy minister. Once this is over, he deserves some combination of promotion and time away from the trenches- Foreign Secretary is customary in that situation, is it not?

    Williamson wasn't worthy last time round. And he's not improved.
    I am on Hancock (now 36s bf) for next Cons leader.

    Rishi's fate will be in the hands of the extent of the furlough.

    I'm not sure there are too many other candidates. Raab perhaps. Gove I can't see it.
    Hunt would likely run again, if Sunak was not now a contender he might even win next time with Brexit no longer an issue and Corbyn defeated and no more
    That is a good point. Hunt might tempt me back to the Party.
    You're a diehard something or other.
    They don't want you back.
    If they want Hunt they want me.
    And vice versa almost works.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    1. New ScotParl votes to request authority for new referendum.

    2. U.K. Parliament votes it down 590ish to 48.

    What happens next?

    What even happens between 1 and 2? Early Day Motion?
    Government would give it time, on a free vote.

    Note that Conservative and Unionist Party manifesto from 2019 said no referendum during this Parliament.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    ydoethur said:

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    You haven't heard the next, logical suggestion, yet.

    It's bouncing around on Twitter. Only a matter of time before a politicians says it.
    Does it have anything to do with bleach?
    Think "fair allocation of vital medical supplies"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    I don't understand what they expect to happen? The UK has a domestic manufacturing requirement as part of the contract and in case they don't remember, AZ fucked up our initial delivery as well from 20m to 4m so it's not exactly an isolated incident.
    Playing to the crowd. Doesnt just happen on this side of the channel.

    I do think the claims of obsession with the EU on this topic are rather strange. Quite apart from the EU being our neighbour and what we each do affecting the other, it's not as though the EU has stopped commenting about the UK on things nor should they.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    No, we need to go much further. We will soon increase our production of vaccine beyond what is required to give everyone in these islands their double dose. What do we do then? I think we keep ramping up production and come to the rescue of others by giving them our surplus. The aid budget should buy as much vaccine as possible for the third world and deliver it. The EU should be given access to our surplus too. Personally, I would give it to them. No conditions, no quid pro quo (other than giving Brits the ability to go on their holidays again). Its what friends do. But maybe I am too nice.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:
    Who gives a crap? Midterm polls are meaningless at best of times, in the middle a pandemic they are beyond meaningless. Why anyone pays the slightest attention is beyond me.
    A few weeks ago we were assured that the Tories would get a Brexit bounce inn the polls. After that failed to materialise a vaccine bounce was predicted. So this poll is interesting in that it seems to show no sign of any bouncing.
    There is a bounce but I suspect it's more like this

    image

    with polls continuing as they are until reality suddenly hits.
    It's not often PB includes a pic of one of my heroes.
    Wile E Coyote reminds me of a few current Government Ministers (Hancock and Williamson in particular) who keep on going even though every single one of their plans is thwarted.
    Hancock has vastly improved. After a shaky start, admittedly.

    Williamson, oh dear.
    Hancock is a worthy minister. Once this is over, he deserves some combination of promotion and time away from the trenches- Foreign Secretary is customary in that situation, is it not?

    Williamson wasn't worthy last time round. And he's not improved.
    I am on Hancock (now 36s bf) for next Cons leader.

    Rishi's fate will be in the hands of the extent of the furlough.

    I'm not sure there are too many other candidates. Raab perhaps. Gove I can't see it.
    Hunt would likely run again, if Sunak was not now a contender he might even win next time with Brexit no longer an issue and Corbyn defeated and no more
    That is a good point. Hunt might tempt me back to the Party.
    You're a diehard something or other.
    They don't want you back.
    If they want Hunt they want me.
    And vice versa almost works.
    Ah, vice versa.

    There was a young lady called Bickers
    Who often went out without...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    ydoethur said:

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    You haven't heard the next, logical suggestion, yet.

    It's bouncing around on Twitter. Only a matter of time before a politicians says it.
    Does it have anything to do with bleach?
    Think "fair allocation of vital medical supplies"
    That'd go down well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    Then why do we constantly get told what bloody Redwood or Hanaan think about things?

    Either comments from random elected officials matter or they dont.
    Hannan thinks about things?
    In a broad technical sense.

    Like how Nobby Nobbs technically had arms as his hands were attached to his shoulders, but that's all you could say about them.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    A referendum which isn't legally authorised and internationally recognised is absolutely no use at all for the Nats, except to further stoke the already well-stoked grievance machine. They must know this, so there's a huge amount of bluster here.

    From the point of view of the Conservative government, I really can't see any upside to agreeing the referendum. Better to say No, ignore the fuss, and leave it to the next Labour PM to impale himself or herself on the spike.

    I think it has the potential to blow up badly in Sturgeon's face. A half-cocked "referendum" which goes nowhere could easily turn public opinion around. Not everyone up here is an obsessive Indy-supporter.

    A huge risk. But I kinda get the impression that she may be losing her grip a bit. Her husband is in the firing line for possibly misleading the parliamentary inquiry. Wonder if that is getting to her.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    Might have something to do with the huge amount of investment made by HMG. About seven times as much as the EU.
    Or it might be, I dunno, because we've APPROVED THE FECKING VACCINE and are USING IT and the EU HASN'T and CAN'T.

    Why should they ship vaccine to the EU to gather dust in warehouses while a bunch of third rate politicians argue over who gets what eventually when the vaccine instead could be jabbed into arms to save lives?
    Now now - here in Spain we have plenty of Mayors and army Generals who still haven't yet been able to jump the queue and it's pissing them off!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    You haven't heard the next, logical suggestion, yet.

    It's bouncing around on Twitter. Only a matter of time before a politicians says it.
    Does it have anything to do with bleach?
    Think "fair allocation of vital medical supplies"
    That'd go down well.
    There are now a number of politicians who are in the situation that the tide is receding. And their swimware appears to be fictional.

    What do you expect them to do?
  • It's only right that vaccines go to where they're most needed.

    Britain's dismal record on Covid-19 puts us quite high up on that list.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    eek said:

    Hidden in a long twitter thread about the new Dominion Giulliani lawsuit is this gem, which probably highlights the real point of this case - as Discovery will allow them to see if they can tie Trump into this is anyway shape or form,

    https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1353716125834612736

    One of the Trumptons on here was suggesting it was Dominion who would be concerned about discovery in a libel claim.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    At it again:

    Boris Johnson has hinted that the Government will be "looking at the potential of relaxing some measures", before mid- February.

    The Prime Minister said that the Government was "looking at the data as it comes in", and then added that "before then we'll be looking at the potential of relaxing some measures".

    However No 10 pushed back against Mr Johnson's words and said that the 15th of February "remains the earliest point at which we could change any of the rules".

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/25/boris-johnson-schools-reopen-vaccine-rollout-easter-lockdown/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    DavidL said:

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    No, we need to go much further. We will soon increase our production of vaccine beyond what is required to give everyone in these islands their double dose. What do we do then? I think we keep ramping up production and come to the rescue of others by giving them our surplus. The aid budget should buy as much vaccine as possible for the third world and deliver it. The EU should be given access to our surplus too. Personally, I would give it to them. No conditions, no quid pro quo (other than giving Brits the ability to go on their holidays again). Its what friends do. But maybe I am too nice.
    Indeed, no reason not to vaccinate the third world once we are happy, and to use the aid budget to pay for it.

    Also, I’d write “🇬🇧UK Aid, 🇬🇧 Vaccinating the Developing World🇬🇧” on the boxes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    Except, the EU is acting as if we have not left their orbit.

    That's all.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    Brexiteers are still obsessed with the EU.

    We're doing well with vaccinations. Our pharma industry is stepping up. That's something to be proud of. Is that not enough?

    No, we need to go much further. We will soon increase our production of vaccine beyond what is required to give everyone in these islands their double dose. What do we do then? I think we keep ramping up production and come to the rescue of others by giving them our surplus. The aid budget should buy as much vaccine as possible for the third world and deliver it. The EU should be given access to our surplus too. Personally, I would give it to them. No conditions, no quid pro quo (other than giving Brits the ability to go on their holidays again). Its what friends do. But maybe I am too nice.
    Rubbish, Europe is a rich continent, it has the means to invest in significant production capacity, they have chosen not to. Any surplus we have should go to the COVAX scheme after a strategic reserve is built up.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Sandpit said:

    On topic to post this one then:

    Salmond or Sturgeon: Which One Is Lying?

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/25/salmond-or-sturgeon-which-one-is-lying/

    (Gets in haggis flavoured popcorn, especially for Burns’ Night!)

    If one of them has to be lying and the other telling the truth my money would be on Sturgeon doing the truth telling. She gives off to me a solid and trustworthy aroma that Salmond, for all his undoubted gifts as a politician, does not.
  • ydoethur said:
    That cat has my 'this could have been done via email' face during video calls.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    EU mafia trying their "give us the vaccine - or the puppy gets it" routine I see.

    A German MEP made a comment.

    Let's not blow this out of proportion.
    https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1353731265191682049?s=20
    I don't understand what they expect to happen? The UK has a domestic manufacturing requirement as part of the contract and in case they don't remember, AZ fucked up our initial delivery as well from 20m to 4m so it's not exactly an isolated incident.
    Pretty sure were we to be impacted with the latest supply problems as well.

    If they cant supply they cant supply, end of.

    Governments should be used to that given pretty how often defence, IT and infrastructure estimates for cost and timescale are well out.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    Lol - currently that's not a lot of flags....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DougSeal said:

    eek said:

    Hidden in a long twitter thread about the new Dominion Giulliani lawsuit is this gem, which probably highlights the real point of this case - as Discovery will allow them to see if they can tie Trump into this is anyway shape or form,

    https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1353716125834612736

    One of the Trumptons on here was suggesting it was Dominion who would be concerned about discovery in a libel claim.
    On recent evidence, it is quite probable that Dominion has better lawyers than Giulliani.

    Actually, pretty much certain. Since he is probably representing himself in this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    First PPE, now vaccines. How low can they stoop?
This discussion has been closed.