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And so to Trump’s final hours in office – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,168
edited January 2021 in General
imageAnd so to Trump’s final hours in office – politicalbetting.com

This from an excellent piece by McKay Coppins in the Atlantic under the heading “The Coming Republican Amnesia”.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First like trump
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Third. Hopefully a happy day.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    4th. Here's to wakey Joe.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Good thread header and link. There are some similarly good pieces on the American network websites this morning. I like this one about Mitch McConnell and the direction of the GOP vis a vis Trump:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/mcconnell-trump/index.html
  • 1.01 is still available on Trump leaving office in 2021.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460

    1.01 is still available on Trump leaving office in 2021.

    You could argue that in his mind he hasn't left office. And even after the Chief Justice stars in Joe, he still won't have.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited January 2021
    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MattW said:

    4th. Here's to wakey Joe.

    Wokey Joe, shurely?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    1.01 is still available on Trump leaving office in 2021.

    You could argue that in his mind he hasn't left office. And even after the Chief Justice stars in Joe, he still won't have.
    He has a mind?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    CNN - Trump talked out of pardoning [his] kids and Republican lawmakers [and himself]
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-warning/index.html

    [Excellent article chock full of interesting and highly-plausible detail. Among other things, says that US Reps.

    "(snip)

    ."

    FPT, The most pertinent extracts for me are:

    The idea of pardoning himself has captivated Trump nearly the entire span of his presidency. He viewed the prospect as a unilateral magic wand he believed could ease his legal troubles, if not make them disappear entirely.

    Almost as alluring: preemptive clemency for members of his family, who Trump has long bemoaned were being unfairly targeted by his enemies. Rendering them immune from retribution seemed like a raised middle finger to his detractors.

    Trump, according to people he'd spoken to, appeared more taken with the message of unchecked power it might send to his naysayers than actual protection from liability. His pardon power was among his favorite perks of the job. Over the past weeks, Trump has discussed pardons incessantly with associates, often asking if people who had not been accused of any crime wanted one before he left office. The discussions unnerved some aides, who did not believe they were in line for prosecution.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212
    .
    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    And one could argue your characterisation is equally weasely. But that, like yours would be a mere subjective value judgment.

    It was a once in a generation opportunity.
    A new post Brexit generation is on us, and other opportunities may occur.

    If your best argument against another referendum is this, then you will fail.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'

    That’s some advanced training you did back then, Mr Cole! None of mine ever got as far as covering acytipons.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
    The next lot were in for a shock.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
    The next lot were in for a shock.
    No one expected them to be raisin the matter again so soon?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    FPT:
    And here is where I think the Phrase was coined by Alex Salmond in the preface to the White Paper "Scotland's Future", which was published in Nov 2013. Here is that.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351791698096099330
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    IanB2 said:

    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'

    That’s some advanced training you did back then, Mr Cole! None of mine ever got as far as covering acytipons.
    The training I had clearly didn't adequately cover proof-reading! Especially as I've developed FFS.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
    Indeed - can be argued.

    That's why I put the other one in.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited January 2021
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    And one could argue your characterisation is equally weasely. But that, like yours would be a mere subjective value judgment.

    It was a once in a generation opportunity.
    A new post Brexit generation is on us, and other opportunities may occur.

    If your best argument against another referendum is this, then you will fail.
    Indeed. It is a political document.

    I don't hide my opinion of the SNP, as many don't of other political groups.

    But let's debate on the information that is out there.

    I'm not really sure why he wrote it - perhaps he did not imagine he could lose or made the statement to scare up the voters?
  • This referendum is a "once-in-a-generation opportunity" is not remotely a commitment not to hold future votes. Its a statement about how this is the first time the opportunity has come up.

    As "opportunity" in "the view of the current Scottish government" is not a commitment of any kind about future votes.

    Anyway, Trump's last act as he leaves the Presidency will be to grant clemency to the people of Scotland for their crimes against HYUFD as he hopes they will let him in to play golf.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
    The next lot were in for a shock.
    No one expected them to be raisin the matter again so soon?
    They thought the first was an ample answer.

    Incidentally I thought this was rather a remarkable admission from TUD on the previous thread about the SNP’s campaign strategy:

    Leon said:

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    https://www.peterheadport.co.uk/fish-auction/

    Hmmm... Total boxes landed

    09/01/2020 - 2184
    07/02/2020 - 6019
    03/03/2020 - 3100
    03/04/2020 - 778
    08/05/2020 - 1748
    05/06/2020 - 5917
    03/07/2020 - 6622
    07/08/2020 - 5951
    04/09/2020 - 5156
    02/10/2020 - 5581
    06/11/2020 - 5386
    04/12/2020 - 6517
    08/01/2021 - 3955

    Seems to vary wildly.....
    It's worth bearing in mind few were landed today because many were on a protest in London yesterday.
    Weren't they mostly shellfish operations? The BBC interviewed someone from the Dartmouth Crab Company, I assume Peterhead isn't part of their business plan.
    No no, its entirely a Scottish fishing issue that has been fabricated by the SNP. Apparently.
    Shush, no one is supposed to get wind of this cunning plan!
    IT was the SNP's plan in 2014 for Scotland to leave the UK and the EU simultaneously, on a YES vote. Sturgeon never saw a problem with THAT.
    'We must not examine our various winning manifestos that give every sign of producing a clusterfuck and being deeply unpopular, let us instead examine a losing manifesto of more than six years ago.'
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'

    That’s some advanced training you did back then, Mr Cole! None of mine ever got as far as covering acytipons.
    The training I had clearly didn't adequately cover proof-reading! Especially as I've developed FFS.
    That’s a shame. I was thinking no good manager should lack for want of a team of hard working acytipons covering his tracks.

    The worst thing is that I have now typed acytipons sufficient times for my iPad to think it’s a word.
    The evil that men do......?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Nothing in the lead about how Brexiters were responsible for Trump in the first place? Their unexpected so-called anti establishment win in 2016 making his own challenge for power more credible and attractive?
  • What a Disgusting Outrage that the Donald hasn't pardoned Joe Exotic. Whilst I haven't got to the part of the show where he gets his collar felt, Trump could at least have pardoned him for his crimes against mullets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'

    That’s some advanced training you did back then, Mr Cole! None of mine ever got as far as covering acytipons.
    The training I had clearly didn't adequately cover proof-reading! Especially as I've developed FFS.
    That’s a shame. I was thinking no good manager should lack for want of a team of hard working acytipons covering his tracks.

    The worst thing is that I have now typed acytipons sufficient times for my iPad to think it’s a word.
    The evil that men do......?
    Don’t go for the second part a while yet though OKC, we couldn’t manage without you.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    Andy_JS said:
    I understand that the Israeli figures don't include Palestinians living in Israeli Occupied Territories. That's if I'm reading Gaby Hinsliff's article in Guardian correctly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    Hang on, the British Standards Institute exists today, and has existed for a long time.

    Most of the standards implemented by the BSI (and the EU) are hand-me-downs from the ISO, and that is extremely unlikely to change post-Brexit.
  • Meanwhile in Dover, locals complain that this isn't the Brexit they voted for. A government spokesman (no pandering to totty thank you, this is BRITAIN) pointed out that the plans for the new Lorry Park had been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/furious-kent-residents-step-up-fight-over-brexit-lorry-park
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    While I'm glad to see the back, do the words that Shakespeare put into the mouth of Mark Antony not apply: 'the evil that men do lives after them; the good is often interred with their bones!'

    I fear we have not heard the last of Trump and his works. And another thought, that I was taught, as part of management. 'Do something wrong and it takes takes ten acytipons, each taking the same time, too put it right!'

    That’s some advanced training you did back then, Mr Cole! None of mine ever got as far as covering acytipons.
    The training I had clearly didn't adequately cover proof-reading! Especially as I've developed FFS.
    That’s a shame. I was thinking no good manager should lack for want of a team of hard working acytipons covering his tracks.

    The worst thing is that I have now typed acytipons sufficient times for my iPad to think it’s a word.
    The evil that men do......?
    Don’t go for the second part a while yet though OKC, we couldn’t manage without you.
    Thank you, Dr. It's definitely not in the plan!
  • Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    The new UKCA marking replaced the CE marking on 1st January for products sold in the UK. However, businesses can continue to use the CE marking for most products until 31st December unless EU rules relating to the product diverge from UK rules. Businesses selling to the EU will still need to use the CE marking on their products. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460
    rcs1000 said:

    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    Hang on, the British Standards Institute exists today, and has existed for a long time.

    Most of the standards implemented by the BSI (and the EU) are hand-me-downs from the ISO, and that is extremely unlikely to change post-Brexit.
    Yes, thanks; old age some time times plays tricks with the memory. This is a new product, though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,460

    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    The new UKCA marking replaced the CE marking on 1st January for products sold in the UK. However, businesses can continue to use the CE marking for most products until 31st December unless EU rules relating to the product diverge from UK rules. Businesses selling to the EU will still need to use the CE marking on their products. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking.
    Much obliged. Thanks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Apparently lots of people who voted for Brexit have now found out it's totally shit.

    If only someone had mentioned it before...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    ‘Current’ is an important qualification there.
    The next lot were in for a shock.
    No one expected them to be raisin the matter again so soon?
    They thought the first was an ample answer.

    Incidentally I thought this was rather a remarkable admission from TUD on the previous thread about the SNP’s campaign strategy:

    Leon said:

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    https://www.peterheadport.co.uk/fish-auction/

    Hmmm... Total boxes landed

    09/01/2020 - 2184
    07/02/2020 - 6019
    03/03/2020 - 3100
    03/04/2020 - 778
    08/05/2020 - 1748
    05/06/2020 - 5917
    03/07/2020 - 6622
    07/08/2020 - 5951
    04/09/2020 - 5156
    02/10/2020 - 5581
    06/11/2020 - 5386
    04/12/2020 - 6517
    08/01/2021 - 3955

    Seems to vary wildly.....
    It's worth bearing in mind few were landed today because many were on a protest in London yesterday.
    Weren't they mostly shellfish operations? The BBC interviewed someone from the Dartmouth Crab Company, I assume Peterhead isn't part of their business plan.
    No no, its entirely a Scottish fishing issue that has been fabricated by the SNP. Apparently.
    Shush, no one is supposed to get wind of this cunning plan!
    IT was the SNP's plan in 2014 for Scotland to leave the UK and the EU simultaneously, on a YES vote. Sturgeon never saw a problem with THAT.
    'We must not examine our various winning manifestos that give every sign of producing a clusterfuck and being deeply unpopular, let us instead examine a losing manifesto of more than six years ago.'
    And I thought I was simply misspelling currant... :)
  • rcs1000 said:

    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    Hang on, the British Standards Institute exists today, and has existed for a long time.

    Most of the standards implemented by the BSI (and the EU) are hand-me-downs from the ISO, and that is extremely unlikely to change post-Brexit.
    Indeed. The fact that CE markings are generally still valid is to give businesses time to adjust. Nothing to do with needing to get a UK standards body up and running. We've had one of those for over a century.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    Can someone involved in exports/manufacturing settle a family dispute please. Is the CE mark still valid in UK. I thought we'd walked out, someone else says, no, still valid until 31/12/21. A UK standards body will be up and running by then.

    The new UKCA marking replaced the CE marking on 1st January for products sold in the UK. However, businesses can continue to use the CE marking for most products until 31st December unless EU rules relating to the product diverge from UK rules. Businesses selling to the EU will still need to use the CE marking on their products. See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking.
    I will offer a £5 reward to the first person that finds a mass produced product that contains the UKCA mark and not the CE one.

    (That CE is largely self-certified, unlike *cough* the insane profit centre that is UL, is entirely coincidental.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    And one could argue your characterisation is equally weasely. But that, like yours would be a mere subjective value judgment.

    It was a once in a generation opportunity.
    A new post Brexit generation is on us, and other opportunities may occur.

    If your best argument against another referendum is this, then you will fail.
    Ultimately (and I really don't think this should be controversial) voters are allowed to change their minds:

    1. Imagine Remain had won the EU referendum in 2016, and then UKIP had won the 2020 election on a policy of holding a referendum on the UK exiting the EU.

    2. Imagine if the Scottish paper had said that this would be the last referendum for 100 years. That would be ridiculous, right?

    3. Times change.
    4. From the beginning, Tories have denied that their wrecking ball of Brexit might have other unintended consequences
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    rcs1000 said:
    It was an inferior product created by a rogue Italian agent destined to kill Paltrow but ending up in the wrong place.

    Alotta Fagina never was much use.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?
  • rcs1000 said:
    Surely all PBers eschew dangerously flammable wax and commission artisanal flint-knapped and CE-marked vagina candles.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:
    Don't you just hate it when that happens?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    Indeed. The actual swearing out of Trump is at 5pm.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Meanwhile in Dover, locals complain that this isn't the Brexit they voted for. A government spokesman (no pandering to totty thank you, this is BRITAIN) pointed out that the plans for the new Lorry Park had been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/furious-kent-residents-step-up-fight-over-brexit-lorry-park

    Two interesting things in that article: this lorry park is but one of ten similar around the country. And the government thinks, for some reason, that it will only be needed for five years?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    rcs1000 said:
    Surely all PBers eschew dangerously flammable wax and commission artisanal flint-knapped and CE-marked vagina candles.
    Indeed, although I gather sales got off to a rocky start.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    rcs1000 said:
    Surely all PBers eschew dangerously flammable wax and commission artisanal flint-knapped and CE-marked vagina candles.
    I am sure that SLeon would be using the UKCA mark and not the EU one. Can I claim my £5 now?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited January 2021

    rcs1000 said:
    Surely all PBers eschew dangerously flammable wax and commission artisanal flint-knapped and CE-marked vagina candles.
    I think it needs to be pointed out that the reference is to the scent of the candle.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    edited January 2021
    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Surely all PBers eschew dangerously flammable wax and commission artisanal flint-knapped and CE-marked vagina candles.
    I am sure that SLeon would be using the UKCA mark and not the EU one. Can I claim my £5 now?
    Sir Leon? Wasn't that a character in Merlin?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    rcs1000 said:
    That is the wrath of a veangeful God, lashing out against inane consumerism.

    (He's also secretly looking forward to the law suit....)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Incidentally, any word on whether the UK will abandon summer time shenanigans? I think the EU do the ridiculous ritual for the last time this year.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    Er, when you say "Capitol action".........
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    And one could argue your characterisation is equally weasely. But that, like yours would be a mere subjective value judgment.

    It was a once in a generation opportunity.
    A new post Brexit generation is on us, and other opportunities may occur.

    If your best argument against another referendum is this, then you will fail.
    Ultimately (and I really don't think this should be controversial) voters are allowed to change their minds:

    1. Imagine Remain had won the EU referendum in 2016, and then UKIP had won the 2020 election on a policy of holding a referendum on the UK exiting the EU.

    2. Imagine if the Scottish paper had said that this would be the last referendum for 100 years. That would be ridiculous, right?

    3. Times change.
    Broadly agree but not sure it is quite as simple as that. The US (and many other) constitution(s) are a good example of one set of electors placing a higher bar on future electors than there was on themselves. Is it unreasonable to see Scottish independence in the same light - I am not sure.

    It comes down to momentum and what the voters actually want - if enough of them want another referendum and it is supported by the govt of Scotland then we should find a time and way to have one. Whats enough? For me, consistently polling over 55% but its obviously subjective.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Incidentally, any word on whether the UK will abandon summer time shenanigans? I think the EU do the ridiculous ritual for the last time this year.

    Some countries want permanent winter time and others permanent summer. Council never agreed the change and AFAIK isn't it stalled?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    You do realise that's not a commitment to only having it once a generation right?

    Literally no-one in the SNP committed to not calling another referendum in the immediate future. Sex Pest Alex Salmond called Paxman a twat for trying to get him to do so. Sturgeon rejected putting a time frame on another referendum.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Breaking: rate of annual inflation doubles in one month!!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2021
    A commitment would be: "We commit not to hold another referendum for X years after this one."

    What's written there is "we don't think this will happen again easily so better vote Aye all right"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Good luck to the new President. He's going to need it more than most of his predecessors.

    He may be helped by a tsunami of stories that come out in the next few weeks from people who were, er, bidin' their time until a veangeful President was safely out of the White House.

    They will all paint the Trump Era as Peak Stooopid.





  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
    I thought the outgoing President's term ended at noon, regardless of the time the swearing in happened? So, no.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
  • eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
  • Trump's given himself a private pardon, I'm convinced of it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
    I thought the outgoing President's term ended at noon, regardless of the time the swearing in happened? So, no.
    The Guardian says that Kamala is sworn in first, a few minutes before noon

    Given that she is appointed by the President it would make more sense to do it the other way around. Although having her ready does mean there wouldn't be a gap in the event of something terrible happening at midday, I guess.
  • This is sub optimal news.

    There are also concerns about the rollout of the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine. Ministers had expected to receive two million doses a week this month, but Astrazeneca suggested that it may not hit that target until mid-February.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Trump's given himself a private pardon, I'm convinced of it.

    I don't see Trump hitting a Federal Court - all the cases he is going to be on the receiving end of are at State Level.

    Georgia being by far the most entertaining one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
    I thought the outgoing President's term ended at noon, regardless of the time the swearing in happened? So, no.
    The Guardian says that Kamala is sworn in first, a few minutes before noon

    Given that she is appointed by the President it would make more sense to do it the other way around. Although having her ready does mean there wouldn't be a gap in the event of something terrible happening at midday, I guess.
    She isn't appointed by the President. She is elected by the voters.

    I didn't realise the VP was sworn in earlier. My understanding was that the office of both President and Vice President are transferred at noon although the formal swearing in may take place later, so there is no gap. A bit like a monarch becomes king/queen on the death of the previous monarch, but may not be crowned until some time after.

    In fact, there is a case of a nineteenth century President (without checking, I think it was Zachary Taylor) who refused to take the oath of office on a Sunday, but whose term is still held to start on March 4th. (Notwithstanding the fact the then President Pro Tempore's grave has 'President for a Day' written on it.)

    But I could be wrong. I've never made a detailed study of the minutiae of handovers because it's never seemed terribly important.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
    I thought the outgoing President's term ended at noon, regardless of the time the swearing in happened? So, no.
    It is my understanding that the swearing in is just a nice ceremony that marks the occasion. Biden becomes president at 12, automatically. Trump automatically stops being President.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
    Poor Joe Exotic, no wonder he was convinced he was getting a pardon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    With regard to Kamala Harris, is it possible that what she is sworn in as earlier is not Vice President but President of the Senate - technically a separate role although held ex officio by the Veep?

    That might explain the confusion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    4th. Here's to wakey Joe.

    Wokey Joe, shurely?
    And improvement on the last four years of jokey woe.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    Morning all on this rain sodden day.

    A few short hours and someone sane will have their hands on the nuclear code. All being well.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,796
    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile in Dover, locals complain that this isn't the Brexit they voted for. A government spokesman (no pandering to totty thank you, this is BRITAIN) pointed out that the plans for the new Lorry Park had been on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/furious-kent-residents-step-up-fight-over-brexit-lorry-park

    Two interesting things in that article: this lorry park is but one of ten similar around the country. And the government thinks, for some reason, that it will only be needed for five years?
    In five years we will have successfully eliminated all trade with Europe and will finally be the proud sovereign independent country that we were always destined to be.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Floater said:
    Well they aren't going to get work any of way as everyone else is going to see White House 2017-20 and think not worth the embarrassment.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
    Poor Joe Exotic, no wonder he was convinced he was getting a pardon.
    For his Hate Crimes against hair he deserves 400 years in jail.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    And one could argue your characterisation is equally weasely. But that, like yours would be a mere subjective value judgment.

    It was a once in a generation opportunity.
    A new post Brexit generation is on us, and other opportunities may occur.

    If your best argument against another referendum is this, then you will fail.
    Ultimately (and I really don't think this should be controversial) voters are allowed to change their minds:

    1. Imagine Remain had won the EU referendum in 2016, and then UKIP had won the 2020 election on a policy of holding a referendum on the UK exiting the EU.

    2. Imagine if the Scottish paper had said that this would be the last referendum for 100 years. That would be ridiculous, right?

    3. Times change.
    Just to be clear, I remain in favour of the union - but I think that quibbling over crap like this does nothing at all to strengthen the unionist case.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    This is sub optimal news.

    There are also concerns about the rollout of the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine. Ministers had expected to receive two million doses a week this month, but Astrazeneca suggested that it may not hit that target until mid-February.

    :disappointed:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    And any surviving classmates will sigh with relief, I should think, given Trump's popularity in Delaware. Which makes it doubly ironic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The BBC TV schedule suggests the main Capitol action today will be between 4 and 6 pm UK time?

    The Guardian have a fairly detailed schedule for today's events.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/19/inauguration-day-schedule-guide-joe-biden-donald-trump

    Edit: Five hour time difference between DC and London at present.
    So for a few minutes, Kamala will be VP to Trump? That would make a good quiz question.
    I thought the outgoing President's term ended at noon, regardless of the time the swearing in happened? So, no.
    It is my understanding that the swearing in is just a nice ceremony that marks the occasion. Biden becomes president at 12, automatically. Trump automatically stops being President.
    The public swearing of the Presidential oath is a significant moment (though clearly not to the outgoing president), but yes, the transfer of power is automatic.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
    Poor Joe Exotic, no wonder he was convinced he was getting a pardon.
    For his Hate Crimes against hair he deserves 400 years in jail.
    Carole Baskin is the real criminal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
    Poor Joe Exotic, no wonder he was convinced he was getting a pardon.
    For his Hate Crimes against hair he deserves 400 years in jail.
    That can be oranged.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Golf still allowed in Florida, then :-) .

    Reading up about Presidential Pardons, and especially the piece from David Allen Green, https://davidallengreen.com/, I wonder whether a Presidential Pardon prevents charges at State level, or different charges in future.

    It only covers Federal Crimes - state crimes need to be pardoned at State level by the State Governor.

    And there does seem to be stories of secret pardons as technically they would only need to be revealed if it went to court.

    I do love the fact Trump has been talking about and offering Pardons to a lot of people in the White House scaring people who didn't think they had done anything wrong

    There is a thread regarding Steve Bannon on Twitter - it's reflects what I've read to be correct and opens up 2 interesting points

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1351796875800805377

    https://twitter.com/pbartram1/status/1351799449731756032

    Meanwhile Tiger King is still sat in jail.
    Carole Fucking Baskin.
    Seen this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55723476 done while Trump was still President
    Poor Joe Exotic, no wonder he was convinced he was getting a pardon.
    For his Hate Crimes against hair he deserves 400 years in jail.
    Carole Baskin is the real criminal.
    Methods of barber-ism?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I see the Times has splashed on the stuttering vaccination numbers.

    Seems I was right to flag it after all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    rcs1000 said:
    That is the wrath of a veangeful God, lashing out against inane consumerism.

    (He's also secretly looking forward to the law suit....)
    The more I see of stuff like Goop and Trumpism and the rest, the more I come to the Marxist view of organised religion.

    It is the opiate of the masses. But, I think, it may be a good thing.

    I am an atheist - not the ranting kind, such a s Dawkins - just don't believe.

    But it seems to me, more and more, that organised religion had the function of controlling the belief set of the very large number of people who need such beliefs.

    Without that organisation, they don't sit around discussing refinements to utilitarianism, as atheists.

    They invent their own religions. Which involves repeating all the mistakes from previous attempts.
  • StarryStarry Posts: 111
    MattW said:

    FPT:
    And here is where I think the Phrase was coined by Alex Salmond in the preface to the White Paper "Scotland's Future", which was published in Nov 2013. Here is that.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351791698096099330

    MattW said:

    FPT: Very surprised that you all forget where the Scottish Government's "Once in a Generation" for the Sindy Ref came from.

    It was prominent on their own scotreferendum.com website.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1351788057150816256

    (Though as ever it might be argued that there are loopholes between the weasel words.)

    Archive.org link:
    https://www.webarchive.org.uk/wayback/archive/20150120011925/https://www.scotreferendum.com/questions/if-scotland-votes-no-will-there-be-another-referendum-on-independence-at-a-later-date/

    And here's the SNP Manifesto which gained a majority stating there should be a referendum "if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will" https://www.snp.org/the-snp-2016-manifesto-explained/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited January 2021
    Surprise surprise a hundred pop stars have written to the Times telling the government Brexit is a complete balls up and wrecking one of the exports we excelled at. One of the signatories Roger Daltry was a prominent Brexiteer if more evidence were needed that most Brexiteers are thick as railway sleepers.

    My first job was at a studio on Kings Road. Day 2 our next door neighbour parked his pink Rolls Royce in our car park without permission. I was sent sent next door to get him to move it. I rang the bell and no one answered so I went back and said he wasn't in. 'Stupid Boy!' If he wasn't in what's his f**ing car doing in our carpark!'

    'Go back and don't return till he moves it!' I rang his bell continuosly thinking my career was about to be over when a bleary eyed Keith Moon opened the door and yelled "FU+K OFF' and slammed the door in my face! No HR departments in those days so I just kept my finger on the bell till he moved it. A steep earning curve for an 18 year old!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    Thomas Friedman on Trump:


    "His character was his destiny, and it became ours, too."


    President Donald J. Trump: The End
    This terrible experiment is over.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/opinion/trump-presidency.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Ends on a positive note though on how US can recover.
This discussion has been closed.