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Now Trump is struggling to find lawyers who’ll defend him at the impeachment proceedings – political

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 15 in General
imageNow Trump is struggling to find lawyers who’ll defend him at the impeachment proceedings – politicalbetting.com

This is from Bloomberg:

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 740
    First... like Steve Baker in the race to replace BJ.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 740
    by next month, Trump will barely make the news on this side of the Atlantic barring a golfing visit or some other `spectacular'..... Biden (and I think party chiefs on both sides) will want to draw a line under DT's period in office, hopefully PB will find something else to discuss - Tory leadership manoeuvres perhaps?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    Third.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,799
    FPT "is Germany still only vaccinating hundreds of people a day?"
    Answer can be found here:
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquoten-Tab.html

    2 days ago was nearly 80000.
    The shortage of doses is still being blamed for the low numbers, but there are issues getting it together with such a fragmented health system.


    I'm also worried about whether there will be enough people to do the actual jabbing. My wife is getting her first shot today, and might be vaccinating people herself. The nurses in her hospital aren't doing any jabbing, which I find perplexing. I know nurses tend to have a narrower range of responsibilities than in the UK, but this is ridiculous.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,109
    edited January 15
    Is the place for Trump The Guinness Book of Records, or maybe the Barnum and Bailey circus, for the greatest ever unpuncturable ego?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    There's a terrific piece on NBC about the legal definition of incitement and why it's probably not demonstrable in any court ... except the Senate:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-s-speech-probably-defensible-every-court-except-perhaps-senate-n1254258
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited January 15

    by next month, Trump will barely make the news on this side of the Atlantic barring a golfing visit or some other `spectacular'..... Biden (and I think party chiefs on both sides) will want to draw a line under DT's period in office, hopefully PB will find something else to discuss - Tory leadership manoeuvres perhaps?

    Well inasmuch as Trump's shadow over the GOP will be felt for several years it's right and proper that it remains in discussion.

    This is a betting site and US politics is the biggest political market in the world.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,336
    edited January 15
    Around 1 in 20 have received the jab in the UK.

    https://tinyurl.com/yyg7nalm
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,455
    And?

    And, Hello; bit drier this morning!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    New Jersey giving priority for vaccinations to smokers...now there’s a controversial decision!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,915
    IanB2 said:

    New Jersey giving priority for vaccinations to smokers...now there’s a controversial decision!

    How many days before do you have to take it up? Quite willing to have a couple in the morning of the jab if thats all that is required!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 35,773
    Nigelb said:
    I'm guessing that Toby Young has not seen this tweet.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 35,773
    Andy_JS said:

    Around 1 in 20 have received the jab in the UK.

    https://tinyurl.com/yyg7nalm

    In two weeks time, it'll be one-in-ten, and a month from now it'll be one-in-five. If J&J and Novavax come through, then we'll be out the woods by Easter*.

    If they do not, it'll be more like May/June.

    * "Out the woods" does not mean completely free of the virus and its restrictions, it means we'll be on a clearly improving path.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    I admit to a certain schadenfreude wrt the deleted arrest records of people later released without charge.

    DNA database records have been retained unacceptably in the UK for 20 years, now, including substantially ignoring an ECHR ruling from as far back as 2008.

    Much abuse remains to be corrected.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    edited January 15
    It’s a pity this research wasn’t done much earlier, as the vaccine intranasally administered appears much more effective at preventing infection - and infectivity.

    Intranasal ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/AZD1222 vaccination reduces shedding of SARS-CoV-2 D614G in rhesus macaques
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.09.426058v1
    Intramuscular vaccination with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19/AZD1222 protected rhesus macaques against pneumonia but did not reduce shedding of SARS-CoV-2. Here we investigate whether intranasally administered ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 reduces shedding, using a SARS-CoV-2 virus with the D614G mutation in the spike protein. Viral load in swabs obtained from intranasally vaccinated hamsters was significantly decreased compared to controls and no viral RNA or infectious virus was found in lung tissue, both in a direct challenge and a transmission model. Intranasal vaccination of rhesus macaques resulted in reduced shedding and a reduction in viral load in bronchoalveolar lavage and lower respiratory tract tissue. In conclusion, intranasal vaccination reduced shedding in two different SARS-CoV-2 animal models, justifying further investigation as a potential vaccination route for COVID-19 vaccines.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,799

    by next month, Trump will barely make the news on this side of the Atlantic barring a golfing visit or some other `spectacular'..... Biden (and I think party chiefs on both sides) will want to draw a line under DT's period in office, hopefully PB will find something else to discuss - Tory leadership manoeuvres perhaps?

    Well inasmuch as Trump's shadow over the GOP will be felt for several years it's right and proper that it remains in discussion.

    This is a betting site and US politics is the biggest political market in the world.
    I hope the only news we hear is about his bankruptcy, his convictions for various crimes.

    It would be really depressing to see him prosper in any way, which unfortunately seems to often happen.

    Take Andrew Wakefield, who surely has to be an absolutely vile individual, unless I'm missing some kind of mitigating factor? Struck off in disgrace. Responsible for the deaths of children because of his greed and dishonesty. Now a hero to millions and continuing to make lots of money from his lies. And, like Trump, seems to be absolutely shameless.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    I'm guessing that Toby Young has not seen this tweet.
    I’m guessing he’d ignore it anyway.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    the world will likely pass the devastating milestone of 2 million dead from coronavirus in just over a year within the next few hours
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,455
    Nigelb said:
    Thanks. Question is, will he and his mates want to deliver in UK, at least for a while.How do his employers feel about his delays?
  • The nice thing about consulting work is that you can choose when to work. Wide awake at 4:30am on a Friday? Get working, finish at lunchtime...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,840
    Nigelb said:

    This would seem to justify the decision to delay the booster in order to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible.
    It is still essential that everyone gets the booster.

    Because of the paywall I cannot read the story. The first paragraphs do say a 33% drop in infections in 200 000 over 60's compared with controls in the 3rd week. That isn't a 90% drop, and of course they had the next dose at that point.

    Is there something elsewhere in the article supporting delaying the booster?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    I posted this yesterday.
    It suggests that (whether through vaccination or infection) population immunity will eventually render Covid something similar to the other existing endemic coronaviruses.
    Population surveys suggest that most people get infected by those in childhood, and that seems to provide lifetime protection against severe disease.
    We don’t know for certain, but it seems possible that rather than this virus evolving to be less virulent, the fact that it’s both very infectious, and for the vast majority not very serious in childhood, it becomes a relatively minor infection like the common cold coronaviruses because future generations will all get it as children.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    CNN: Privately, Republicans have reviewed internal polling showing Trump's support cratering among GOP voters since Election Day -- especially since last week when he incited a violent mob of his supporters to riot in the Capitol leading to the deaths of five people, two sources said.

    One GOP source said an internal poll since Election Day has seen Trump slide more than double digits among Republican voters nationally.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    edited January 15
    ..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,840
    MattW said:

    ..

    Does the Fisheries Minister not get to look, pre publication? Extraordinary if not.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    Nigelb said:

    I posted this yesterday.
    It suggests that (whether through vaccination or infection) population immunity will eventually render Covid something similar to the other existing endemic coronaviruses.
    Population surveys suggest that most people get infected by those in childhood, and that seems to provide lifetime protection against severe disease.
    We don’t know for certain, but it seems possible that rather than this virus evolving to be less virulent, the fact that it’s both very infectious, and for the vast majority not very serious in childhood, it becomes a relatively minor infection like the common cold coronaviruses because future generations will all get it as children.

    An obvious parallel is the measles gifted to the native Americans after 1492.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,782
    edited January 15
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: Privately, Republicans have reviewed internal polling showing Trump's support cratering among GOP voters since Election Day -- especially since last week when he incited a violent mob of his supporters to riot in the Capitol leading to the deaths of five people, two sources said.

    One GOP source said an internal poll since Election Day has seen Trump slide more than double digits among Republican voters nationally.

    His slide was triple digits???

    Still not enough.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,840

    The nice thing about consulting work is that you can choose when to work. Wide awake at 4:30am on a Friday? Get working, finish at lunchtime...

    Then down the pub? Oh wait...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,782
    Economy shrank 2.6% in November - as a result of second lockdown forcing businesses to close.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    edited January 15
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ..

    Does the Fisheries Minister not get to look, pre publication? Extraordinary if not.
    That was why I edited the post. Things to do. No time for a detail mudwrestle today.
  • Foxy said:

    The nice thing about consulting work is that you can choose when to work. Wide awake at 4:30am on a Friday? Get working, finish at lunchtime...

    Then down the pub? Oh wait...
    I've done a *lot* of business in bars over the years.

    That sounds soooooo wrong... ;)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,336
    O/T

    Weird and unusual situation at the cricket test match in Sri Lanka where Root was caught off the glove but it was not out because he'd already hit the ball into the ground off the bat.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,840
    In todays least surprising news, BoZo didn't do his homework.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 4,820
    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 19,391
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    I'm guessing that Toby Young has not seen this tweet.
    Contrarian takes it as evidence that Covid is invented.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,999
    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019
    Scott_xP said:
    "clarify that UK hauliers are exempt" - does that mean they really are, or mean "I hope that I can blag the Euros into accepting that their rules and laws can be waived for us"?
  • Scott_xP said:
    It's another race, shadowing the vaccination/infection battle. Can we get imports back up again before the stockpiles run out?
  • eekeek Posts: 11,035
    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 54,989
    Good morning, everyone.

    Good luck, Mr. Gate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019
    edited January 15
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    Last proper exam this morning: Property Law and Practice. Wish me luck. :#

    At least it's not Lorry-driving Law and Practice!
  • Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?
  • Last proper exam this morning: Property Law and Practice. Wish me luck. :#

    Good luck.

    FYI - Don't tell anyone you've covered that bit of law because going forward friends and family will want you to help them in anything property/house related and it is bloody tedious.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 13,108

    Last proper exam this morning: Property Law and Practice. Wish me luck. :#

    Good luck.

    FYI - Don't tell anyone you've covered that bit of law because going forward friends and family will want you to help them in anything property/house related and it is bloody tedious.
    That advice has come too late I'm afraid
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,999

    Last proper exam this morning: Property Law and Practice. Wish me luck. :#

    Good luck!
  • eekeek Posts: 11,035
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 19,391

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
  • eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
    With the exciting new restrictions on UK hauliers working in Europe, their fees will rise significantly to cover the lost revenue on the return leg. So less choice + extra admin + lengthier journeys + less backhaul = higher costs for consumers
  • Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    Well Donald Trump is so famously poor that he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 so he might be eligible for a court appointed lawyer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    kamski said:

    FPT "is Germany still only vaccinating hundreds of people a day?"
    Answer can be found here:
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquoten-Tab.html

    2 days ago was nearly 80000.
    The shortage of doses is still being blamed for the low numbers, but there are issues getting it together with such a fragmented health system.


    I'm also worried about whether there will be enough people to do the actual jabbing. My wife is getting her first shot today, and might be vaccinating people herself. The nurses in her hospital aren't doing any jabbing, which I find perplexing. I know nurses tend to have a narrower range of responsibilities than in the UK, but this is ridiculous.

    Any reason given to why nurses aren't?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,999
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
    Higher friction = higher frictional costs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    edited January 15
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
    It seems getting a new one is quite simple and takes 3 or 4 minutes.
    https://www.gov.uk/check-hgv-border

    Not perfect, but...
  • TOPPING said:

    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?

    It's already here. Even if we ignore the mess in Northern Ireland, there are increasing gaps in supply across GB as well.

    Ocado are the latest to warn of growing cross-offs and substitutions.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-supermarket-food-shortages-covid-b1786175.html
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,150

    Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    Well Donald Trump is so famously poor that he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 so he might be eligible for a court appointed lawyer.
    I did wonder if the real problem here is the fear that they won’t get paid. There’s a good chance of winning the case given the difficulty in securing a two-thirds majority.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,150
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
    It seems getting a new one is quite simple and takes 3 or 4 minutes.
    https://www.gov.uk/check-hgv-border
    The market will find a way, but the result will be higher prices.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 13,108

    Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    Well Donald Trump is so famously poor that he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 so he might be eligible for a court appointed lawyer.
    I did wonder if the real problem here is the fear that they won’t get paid. There’s a good chance of winning the case given the difficulty in securing a two-thirds majority.
    They could require payment on account!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,799

    kamski said:

    FPT "is Germany still only vaccinating hundreds of people a day?"
    Answer can be found here:
    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquoten-Tab.html

    2 days ago was nearly 80000.
    The shortage of doses is still being blamed for the low numbers, but there are issues getting it together with such a fragmented health system.


    I'm also worried about whether there will be enough people to do the actual jabbing. My wife is getting her first shot today, and might be vaccinating people herself. The nurses in her hospital aren't doing any jabbing, which I find perplexing. I know nurses tend to have a narrower range of responsibilities than in the UK, but this is ridiculous.

    Any reason given to why nurses aren't?
    she said "because they don't want to"
    For sure nurses are also busy these days, so I can understand doctors doing some of it, and it may be that the numbers of doses they have is still quite small - they are vaccinating their vulnerable patients, then frontline staff - it's not really a vaccination centre where other people come to get vaccinated. So it may be in a way easier for doctors to give themselves time during (around) their shifts as it's fairly small scale...

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 15,264
    On topic I imagine his lawyers are going to plead various kinds of mental and physical ill health, this won't be ideal for his hopes of running again even if the the Senate fail to convict.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Getting fined because you are stuck in a lorry Park so long your KAP expires... Only in Brexit Britain.
    Jobs for British workers - exactly what Brexiters wanted.
    It's the way the world is now that it's impossible to decide (without a knowledge of the poster) whether this is satirical or not. Or maybe it's satirical and factual at the same time.

    I'm just wondering, who wants to sit around in Kent? More to the point, who wants to employ them to sit around in Kent? Also - how many folk have the correct bumf to drive lorries in Europe for a living now? And how long does it take to get it?
    It was supposed to be both - as we shouldn't be in this mess but because we are its easy to see why people with other options simply won't take UK destined loads in the future.

    Which means that the only people probably willing to take on this work will be British Haulage firms as that will be the work available to them.

    As Philip_Thompson so happily states - the market will recreate itself. Which means British Haulage firms are going to need to learn an awful lot about paperwork as processing that paperwork quickly is the biggest value added they can offer at the moment.
    It seems getting a new one is quite simple and takes 3 or 4 minutes.
    https://www.gov.uk/check-hgv-border

    Not perfect, but...
    That will only takje you across the Kent border - and you need a lot of supporting bumf.

    I also see "The permit is only valid for the 24-hour period stated on the permit. The driver must enter Kent and cross the border in this period. If the driver is going to arrive at the border before or after this 24-hour period, apply for a new permit." Not great if the processing in Kent is held up. Hence one reason for the profuse burst of obscenities in Polish translated earlier on Twitter and reproduced here this morning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    .
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    This would seem to justify the decision to delay the booster in order to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible.
    It is still essential that everyone gets the booster.

    Because of the paywall I cannot read the story. The first paragraphs do say a 33% drop in infections in 200 000 over 60's compared with controls in the 3rd week. That isn't a 90% drop, and of course they had the next dose at that point.

    Is there something elsewhere in the article supporting delaying the booster?
    There's rather more information here:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-well-does-the-vaccine-work-israels-real-world-stats-can-be-globes-guide/
    ...“Graphs diverge on day 14 with a 33% decline among the vaccinated elderly, without a similar trend among the unvaccinated,” he said. He added that more information would be forthcoming from more detailed peer-reviewed studies currently underway.

    Maccabi reported that the rate of infection decreased from about 40 out of 100,000 people in the first 12 days after vaccination to about 15 per 100,000 on days 13 to 21 — a 60% reduction.

    It’s unclear exactly why the figures vary, but one factor appears to be the fact that Maccabi included vaccinated people of all ages in its study, while Clalit didn’t...


    Couple of points, though.
    First, this is levels of infection diverging in the third week, as the immune system response ramps up. I'm not sure why you'd expect it to be 90% at that point in any event ?
    Second, the 33% is the figure for the elderly patients. What figure would you expect for that cohort in the third week even if the vaccine were 90% effective overall ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    TOPPING said:

    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?

    It's already here. Even if we ignore the mess in Northern Ireland, there are increasing gaps in supply across GB as well.

    Ocado are the latest to warn of growing cross-offs and substitutions.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-supermarket-food-shortages-covid-b1786175.html
    Our Sainsbury's order substituted Brie for Mozzarella last week. In what kind of insane universe is that an acceptable substitution? No wonder we had Brexit.
    It'll soon be pickled herring salad in the deliveries instead of cod and chips.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 25,698
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    I'm guessing that Toby Young has not seen this tweet.
    Would it make the slightest different to his schtick if he had?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 40,118
    Looks like a US-UK mini-deal is off the table for at least three months. The events of the last week have probably scuppered it, with Trump going AWOL and the UK not really wanting to dance with him anymore:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/us-tariffs-on-whisky-will-stay-as-post-brexit-trade-talks-falter-x05c2nj5n
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    On topic I imagine his lawyers are going to plead various kinds of mental and physical ill health, this won't be ideal for his hopes of running again even if the the Senate fail to convict.

    Also Mr T might be a difficult client. That sort of message from his legal eagles is not exactly consistent with his self-image as we have come to know it. I'd be slightly surprised if he doesn't sack them if they try it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576

    Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    Well Donald Trump is so famously poor that he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 so he might be eligible for a court appointed lawyer.
    I did wonder if the real problem here is the fear that they won’t get paid. There’s a good chance of winning the case given the difficulty in securing a two-thirds majority.
    Those judging him are not going to be paying much attention to the strict legalities of case anyway, so I don't see what he loses by representing himself, with copious behind-the-scenes PR coaching.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,535
    Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    BTW The old English cab rank rule applied to barristers not solicitors. Does it still exist?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    Looks like a US-UK mini-deal is off the table for at least three months. The events of the last week have probably scuppered it, with Trump going AWOL and the UK not really wanting to dance with him anymore:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/us-tariffs-on-whisky-will-stay-as-post-brexit-trade-talks-falter-x05c2nj5n

    So much the worse for the Tory fortunes in Scotland - particularly in the northern and northeastern coastlands.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 13,108
    Talking of cab ranks, I once (in a very drunken state) went down a cab rank in Durham because each driver was trying to charge £60 to take me back to Newcastle. Eventually one guy about 7 cars down was willing to do it for £40.

    Still unsure to this very day if that was poor etiquette.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 39,357

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:
    I'm guessing that Toby Young has not seen this tweet.
    Would it make the slightest different to his schtick if he had?
    the opposite. it shows masks don't work for covid etc etc
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 90,129
    edited January 15
    Given how awesome Donald Trump is he should, pro hac vice, represent himself.

    Obviously he couldn't go pro se during his first impeachment because he was serving as President, not an issue this time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I posted this yesterday.
    It suggests that (whether through vaccination or infection) population immunity will eventually render Covid something similar to the other existing endemic coronaviruses.
    Population surveys suggest that most people get infected by those in childhood, and that seems to provide lifetime protection against severe disease.
    We don’t know for certain, but it seems possible that rather than this virus evolving to be less virulent, the fact that it’s both very infectious, and for the vast majority not very serious in childhood, it becomes a relatively minor infection like the common cold coronaviruses because future generations will all get it as children.

    An obvious parallel is the measles gifted to the native Americans after 1492.
    Absolutely - another extremely infectious childhood disease.
    And of course it wasn't just the measles. Levels of post 1492 deaths in the Americas are highly uncertain, but some estimates are as high as 90% of populations.
    If we ever vaccinate for childhood diseases sufficiently to eliminate them, something for the following generation to ponder.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 4,820
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?

    It's already here. Even if we ignore the mess in Northern Ireland, there are increasing gaps in supply across GB as well.

    Ocado are the latest to warn of growing cross-offs and substitutions.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-supermarket-food-shortages-covid-b1786175.html
    Our Sainsbury's order substituted Brie for Mozzarella last week. In what kind of insane universe is that an acceptable substitution? No wonder we had Brexit.
    It'll soon be pickled herring salad in the deliveries instead of cod and chips.
    Fish and chips was invented by immigrants anyway.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576
    Carnyx said:

    On topic I imagine his lawyers are going to plead various kinds of mental and physical ill health, this won't be ideal for his hopes of running again even if the the Senate fail to convict.

    Also Mr T might be a difficult client. That sort of message from his legal eagles is not exactly consistent with his self-image as we have come to know it. I'd be slightly surprised if he doesn't sack them if they try it.
    As far as a defence is concerned, physical ill health is neither here nor there, nor is mental unless you are seriously delusional - a personality disorder or a touch of bipolar doesn't begin to cut it. Those things might be relevant to mitigation, but there is no scope for mitigation here because there is no flexibility as to what the sentence is.

    In other news worldometers deaths 2,003,917.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 6,294
    Trigger warning... the first EU uniformed service appears.



    The chip bag hat makes them look like Thunderbirds or, worse, the RAF and the tie isn't exactly practical when kicking reffos back in to the Med. Other than that, it looks pretty good.
  • Talking of cab ranks, I once (in a very drunken state) went down a cab rank in Durham because each driver was trying to charge £60 to take me back to Newcastle. Eventually one guy about 7 cars down was willing to do it for £40.

    Still unsure to this very day if that was poor etiquette.

    Very poor, he'd probably be blackballed by the licensing committee.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 25,698
    Bloody hell man, first rule of SCon Club, don’t say what we really think out loud!


  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,320

    TOPPING said:

    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?

    It's already here. Even if we ignore the mess in Northern Ireland, there are increasing gaps in supply across GB as well.

    Ocado are the latest to warn of growing cross-offs and substitutions.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-supermarket-food-shortages-covid-b1786175.html
    I dread to think. We had a snow cancellation on our delivery last night, so 5 more days to wait and the food in the van otherwise disposed. Only my wife's stockpiling to save us, but I'm damned if she's going to chuck any of the aging Spanish salad

    Soon to be exclusively cabbage from the back garden for us I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Trump prefers to be chauffeur driven.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,576
    Dura_Ace said:

    Trigger warning... the first EU uniformed service appears.



    The chip bag hat makes them look like Thunderbirds or, worse, the RAF and the tie isn't exactly practical when kicking reffos back in to the Med. Other than that, it looks pretty good.
    I'm disappointed, I thought that sort of headgear was called a c--t cap.
  • Talking of cab ranks, I once (in a very drunken state) went down a cab rank in Durham because each driver was trying to charge £60 to take me back to Newcastle. Eventually one guy about 7 cars down was willing to do it for £40.

    Still unsure to this very day if that was poor etiquette.

    If it was a local journey? Very very bad. For something where the first driver gave you a fuck off price? Naah.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 8,997
    edited January 15
    Meanwhile, in piggy wiggy woo land

    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/brexit/pig-supply-chain-faces-border-chaos-and-feed-pricing-threat/652096.article

    "Examples of excessive paperwork faced by processors included the need for each export health certificate to have 12 stamps for the English, Dutch and French versions, in duplicate – meaning a 15-tonne load would need a vet to stamp paperwork 72 times."

    Remember that the UK meat market has a major problem if exports slow to a crawl. We rely on the export of the meat we don't eat, if we can't sell it abroad efficiency then the economics of animal farming don't work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    @RochdalePioneers when if at all will all this chaos hit the supermarket shelves?

    It's already here. Even if we ignore the mess in Northern Ireland, there are increasing gaps in supply across GB as well.

    Ocado are the latest to warn of growing cross-offs and substitutions.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-supermarket-food-shortages-covid-b1786175.html
    Our Sainsbury's order substituted Brie for Mozzarella last week. In what kind of insane universe is that an acceptable substitution? No wonder we had Brexit.
    It'll soon be pickled herring salad in the deliveries instead of cod and chips.
    Suspect the sugar content may prevent it being advertised.

    The proposed law is a bit of a dog's dinner.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    edited January 15
    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Don't American lawyers have a cab rank rule?

    Only for court appointed lawyers.
    Well Donald Trump is so famously poor that he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 so he might be eligible for a court appointed lawyer.
    I did wonder if the real problem here is the fear that they won’t get paid. There’s a good chance of winning the case given the difficulty in securing a two-thirds majority.
    Those judging him are not going to be paying much attention to the strict legalities of case anyway, so I don't see what he loses by representing himself, with copious behind-the-scenes PR coaching.
    He's probably already done enough to get acquitted. Enforced silence from being off social media prevents him aggravating wavering Republican Senators by revealing true thoughts about events, and McConnell has extracted from him a statement about unity and moving on to justify doing nothing for the rest.

    Best thing for Trump is to say as little as possible so they can justify what they want to do, get past it and move on.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,930
    edited January 15
    Dura_Ace said:

    Trigger warning... the first EU uniformed service appears.



    The chip bag hat makes them look like Thunderbirds or, worse, the RAF and the tie isn't exactly practical when kicking reffos back in to the Med. Other than that, it looks pretty good.
    They have a corker of a budget - 400 million.

    I love that one of the operations is "Moria Hotspot". Keep those dwarves and Elf Queens out.

    Actually refugee camps on Lesbos.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    edited January 15
    Christ...hardly recognisable...more seriously though, after Boris week long being a fatty is bad against covid, that message has totally gone by the wayside, a guess like a lot of people lockdown fitness routine. I am not massively into the nanny state, regulate our food, but we do need a much bigger push on hiw being over weight is really bad for you and end of this nonsense that you can be and still fit and healthy.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 8,904
    Did Republican Congreemen or their staff show the future rioters around before the mob attack on the Senate?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,951
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    On topic I imagine his lawyers are going to plead various kinds of mental and physical ill health, this won't be ideal for his hopes of running again even if the the Senate fail to convict.

    Also Mr T might be a difficult client. That sort of message from his legal eagles is not exactly consistent with his self-image as we have come to know it. I'd be slightly surprised if he doesn't sack them if they try it.
    As far as a defence is concerned, physical ill health is neither here nor there, nor is mental unless you are seriously delusional - a personality disorder or a touch of bipolar doesn't begin to cut it. Those things might be relevant to mitigation, but there is no scope for mitigation here because there is no flexibility as to what the sentence is.

    In other news worldometers deaths 2,003,917.
    His troubles in finding a lawyer might be related to his habit of stiffing people for payment - and that was in his financial good times. I would suspect that potential lawyers are asking for a substantial retainer.
This discussion has been closed.