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This is not about Trump (except of course it is) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 9 in General
imageThis is not about Trump (except of course it is) – politicalbetting.com

Trump’s second to last tweet before he was banned permanently from Twitter began with the sentence:

Read the full story here

«134567

Comments

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796
    First like Lord Patten according to malcolmg
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,498
    Excellent article!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    Oddly, though the same old faces of Biden etc will greaty upset those who voted Trump in part because they are the same old faces, they are more likely to try to separate their anger at Trump from his voters as the header suggests.

    I think it'll get worse before it gets better, the perennial prediction, because Biden will want to do quite a few things quite fast while he still has both the House and the Senate, and that will make those Trump voters think Biden is going to try for a really radical agenda, when I'd think Biden's instincts would be more to shore up institutions, then go much more middle of the road so as not to upset them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    kle4 said:

    Good that there is more video. It will make it harder for those Senators and Congressman who support the mob's intentions, of which we know there are dozens, from pretending it was only a few bad apples.
    Something that people don't understand about mobs/crowds.

    In one location, you can have a well spaced group of bored people wandering around, sipping water etc.

    A hundred yards away, you can people being crushed to death, trampled, beaten.

    This has been seen, many, many times. You almost never see a big crowd, all doing the same thing.

    That's true, but if it was more widespread the less believable the explanations of thinking it was an innocent picnic in the capiol or whatever, which were not very believable anyway.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548

    Excellent article!

    Cheers
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    edited January 9

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 5,043
    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    I think that is right.

    And if you want to get the vaccination out asap, you start with the regions of highest population density, which is Glamorgan.

    Of course, Glamorgan is where all Labour's strength is. 😁😁😁

    A more politically astute operator than Drakeford would be thinking a bit harder how to counteract the perceived sense of bias.
  • pingping Posts: 182
    Good article.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796
    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 39,210
    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
  • Interesting piece though I did see some exit polls which showed Biden did very well with the middle classes.

    I think that's an artefact of the education/VI split we're seeing in America with the poorly educated ending up poor.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    I suppose that's what Macron is saying.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    RobD said:

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
    I was playing it literally yesterday! Kane lives in Death!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 8,690
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    My 93 year old mother in law has seen hide nor hair of the vaccine either. She too is in a Conservative seat (Bill Wiggin is her MP).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    I think that is right.

    And if you want to get the vaccination out asap, you start with the regions of highest population density, which is Glamorgan.

    Of course, Glamorgan is where all Labour's strength is. 😁😁😁

    A more politically astute operator than Drakeford would be thinking a bit harder how to counteract the perceived sense of bias.
    Thinking and Drakeford, please
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
    I was playing it literally yesterday! Kane lives in Death!
    Did you get the remastered version? God graphics were crap back in those days. :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    When it directly effects the vaccination of your 81 year old wife you are not as flippant
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 39,210

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    When it directly effects the vaccination of your 81 year old wife you are not as flippant
    Even so, it's possible there's been some error, so worth checking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
    I was playing it literally yesterday! Kane lives in Death!
    Did you get the remastered version? God graphics were crap back in those days. :D
    No, I already owned the collection. It's a lot harder than I remember.

    But Richard might approve of the other Nod slogan 'Peace through Power'.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
    I suppose that is another reason why he has retained such a large swathe of his support. Again though I fear it (as in his ability to improve the lot of the Middle Classes) is illusory.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 39,210
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
    I was playing it literally yesterday! Kane lives in Death!
    Indeed! Only on a nerd forum like this would I get so much appreciation for this..

    If you're nostalgic you can buy the remastered version, for modern PCs, on Steam now for like a tenner or something. They've upgraded all the graphics and original soundtrack.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,714
    Interesting piece, thanks Richard. But to what extent did Trump win in 2016 and still get a lot of votes in 2020 simply by being the Republican candidate? I know he particularly well in the rust belt, which supports the globalisation argument, but the political map looks much like it has done for many years now.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 3,793

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    I was doing an advanced driving course at Bruntingthorpe when we had to stop to let the last Vulcan use the runway. Awesome.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,105

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
    And he would have implemented 100% of his 2020 manifesto. Because he didn't have one.
    The GOP did not adopt a "programme for government" just "re-elect Trump".
    For Trump, it was never about getting actual things done.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?

    The man's 78 and always been gaffe prone apparently - even the BBC referred to him as 'gaffe prone Joe Biden' during the primaries - and there's some clips of him stumbling over his words. So concerns will exist, but the amplification of them seems disproportionate and he's had more moments of clarity and mental fortitude on display than the opposite.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    Gives me the creeps these bomber aircraft , especially when people think they are something to behold
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    edited January 9

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    I was doing an advanced driving course at Bruntingthorpe when we had to stop to let the last Vulcan use the runway. Awesome.
    Going to school in Akrotiri in Cyprus, where classrooms were Nissan Huts, one of these taking off with a Lightning on each wing brought proceedings to a halt for a while.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 39,210

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
    I suppose that is another reason why he has retained such a large swathe of his support. Again though I fear it (as in his ability to improve the lot of the Middle Classes) is illusory.
    Yes, that and (even though this will get sniffed at by many on here) it's worth remembering that the politics of much of the Democratic party are as extreme by many people too, which scares them.

    You don't get 75 million votes out of thin air for a man like Trump without good reason. And you can't easily dismiss them all as mad, bad and sad, although remarkably people still do.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156
    edited January 9

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    Absolutely and totally SPOT ON. The key insight in fact. "Trumpism" was a mass exercise in the exploitation of vulnerable adults.

    And I'm so pleased to be able to use "was" in the above sentence.

    Good header too, Richard. I do not agree with it all by any means but it's very good.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 5,043

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    When it directly effects the vaccination of your 81 year old wife you are not as flippant
    BigG, you probably saw there were particular problems at Llandudno.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55567831

    "We walked round the building and there's a big car park at the back and it was just a big snake of people, a good few hundred."

    "There were elderly people there, there were clearly vulnerable people, a couple of people had to have wheelchairs brought out to them because it was so cold. They weren't dressed for it, it was 2 degrees."

    "There were people turning away, leaving the queue."

    Wales is behind England, N Wales behind S Wales and it looks like Llandudno is at the back of the pack in N. Wales, I'm afraid.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,707
    edited January 9
    Well done Richard. An interesting and charitable take on Trump and his disciples.

    What they need is more of a European mindset where the collective looks after the individual and where they dispense with the brutality that leads to the sort of fractured society Trump has taken advantage of.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    TimT said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    I was doing an advanced driving course at Bruntingthorpe when we had to stop to let the last Vulcan use the runway. Awesome.
    Going to school in Akrotiri in Cyprus, where classrooms were Nissan Huts, one of these taking off with a Lightning on each wing brought proceedings to a halt for a while.
    Once, scuba diving in sunlight clear waters, a manta ray swam over me. It was the same feeling as a Vulcan flying overhead: Starts at 1:10

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 23,895

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Can't wait for Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 to be remastered. My wife will be much less pleased!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    When it directly effects the vaccination of your 81 year old wife you are not as flippant
    Even so, it's possible there's been some error, so worth checking.
    That is so kind of you but we do not want to add to our surgeries stress and we will wait our turn
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    I suppose that's what Macron is saying.
    I think they skipped that lesson at Trump's school.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548
    edited January 9

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Ah, memories.
    I was playing it literally yesterday! Kane lives in Death!
    Indeed! Only on a nerd forum like this would I get so much appreciation for this..

    If you're nostalgic you can buy the remastered version, for modern PCs, on Steam now for like a tenner or something. They've upgraded all the graphics and original soundtrack.
    I don't really know - although I would make two points on that.

    If any year was one where we should have seen a Democrat landslide, given how bad the Republican candidate was, it was 2020.

    And we see from the subsequent polling that there are still millions of Americans actively supporting Trump even as the Republican leadership has, at long last, abandoned him. As has already been said, they cannot all be mad or bad. Most of them will be desperate people who just need help and hope and don't see it coming from the mainstream of either party.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,887
    Excellent article @Richard_Tyndall.
    A lot of it overlooked by knee jerk pro free market commentators.
    Maybe it's just as simple as the American era as the economic superpower is over?
    There is no ever expanding frontier over the horizon waiting to be exploited. No new land to be farmed, oil discovered. Nowhere to move on to.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,707

    As an aside, I can't be the only one who thinks @Richard_Tyndall looks like Kane from Command & Conquer, can I?


    Pep Guardiola surely?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,035

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    That is fantastic, but in the queue well behind Covid health tourist Rupert Murdoch and citizen of the world Stanley Johnson.
    Strangely you didn't mention the Labour mp who queue jumped
    Who was that?
    All I can find is a debunked conspiracy theory put out by Guido and Allin -Khan apologising for suggesting Conservative MPs were queue jumping. I have no doubt Floater is on the money but I can't find it.
    Here is the story...

    Any leftover vaccine should go to doctors or nurses' reaction as city MP gets jab by joining queue

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/any-leftover-vaccine-should-go-19538943

    Did he queue jump, sort of.
    Is that the MP with a kidney transplant or something like that?
    Should that be relevant? It's still effectively insider trading.

    My 93 year old mother in law in Herefordshire hasn't had hers and won't be jumping any queues.
    My mother is 96 in a private care home where there have been positive cases, no sign of the vaccine for her or staff.

    Boris Johnson's dad has even had his second vaccination a few days ago. Don't tell me it's not who you know
    It's not who you know it's very much where you live.
    E.g., in Wales.

    As I understand it, the countries of the UK have received vaccines in proportion to their population.

    If so -- and if the countries are using all the vaccines they receive promptly -- it should not be possible for significant discrepancies to arise.

    Like Scotland 2.1 per cent, Wales 1.6 per cent of the population jabbed.

    Unless the Scottish Government is way more competent than the Welsh one. 😉
    Do you need to ask
    You';re always saying that 'Sturgeon' is as bad as 'Drakeford' and 'Boris' ...
    No - Drakeford is off the scale of bad
    My apologies for inadvertently taking your name in vain.
    There is a reason most of North Wales is held by conservative mps

    And at last count vaccination count.

    South and mid Wales 30,000, North Wales 4,500

    And no my 81 wife has not been vaccinated nor any word of it
    (FPT) Hmm - that's a ratio of about 7 to one (actually a bit less, but those look rounded figures anyway).

    Population ratios are about 7 to one.

    So it doesn't seem as if you need to feel hard domne by on a regional basis, or that the Tory MPs are doing any harm (though I recall a certain PBer asserrting that people who don't vote Tory should be ignored by the UK Gmt, admittedly not in this context of the vaccine).

    No consolation though for you or Mrs G - wonder if htere is a local problem with your GP?
    Wales is bottom of the four nations with their vaccination programme and to be honest my wife and I remain in lockdown and are content as we have a lovely home looking out to sea and today Snowdonia is beautiful with fresh snow as seem from the back of our house. We really do feel for so many who are not as fortunate as ourselves
    Somebody has to be bottom or last ! One of the first lessons in life usually given at a primary school sports day!
    When it directly effects the vaccination of your 81 year old wife you are not as flippant
    BigG, you probably saw there were particular problems at Llandudno.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55567831

    "We walked round the building and there's a big car park at the back and it was just a big snake of people, a good few hundred."

    "There were elderly people there, there were clearly vulnerable people, a couple of people had to have wheelchairs brought out to them because it was so cold. They weren't dressed for it, it was 2 degrees."

    "There were people turning away, leaving the queue."

    Wales is behind England, N Wales behind S Wales and it looks like Llandudno is at the back of the pack in N. Wales, I'm afraid.
    It was chaotic apparently and of course that is where we should receive the vaccinations
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 38,775
    Excellent header @Richard_Tyndall

    The whole political class needs to consider why Trump won in the first place.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 657

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    Gives me the creeps these bomber aircraft , especially when people think they are something to behold
    They are though. You have to remember this thing was put on the drawing board in the late 40's and early 50's. It is an incredible bit of engineering for the time.

    What they were designed for is beside the point, although my father in law remembers them being on the runway at Finningley fully armed during the early 60s.

    I witnessed the last flight. Such a shame it had to be grounded.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 2,030
    Excellent header @Richard_Tyndall and also the one previously by @David Herdson, although I would agree with more of the points in Richard's one.

    The point made about Trump's voters are likely to migrate to someone similar is I think correct. I don't think the Biden Administration will do much about it to be honest because, even if Biden thinks he should, white middle class / working class voters will be bottom of the priority list for many in the Democrats.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Which is why you are so much a part of the problem and are as bad - in your own way - as those who voted for Trump. You live in a country that provides, for most people at least, a basic safety net. You also live a country where seeing large scale year on year drops in your income - not relative income but actual - is fairly uncommon for most people except in the times of utmost economic hardship such as the financial crash. This is not the case in the US where people live much closer to the edge of economic catastrophe on a daily basis.

    For you to sit here and scorn them for hoping to make their lives better reflects very poorly on you.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 18,992
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 3,882

    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?

    Watching Biden's response to the events of Wednesday, I think he is a lot sharper than I would have been under those circumstances (despite having been born 27 years before me). The comparison with Trump's response is even more stark.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 2,030

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Which is why you are so much a part of the problem and are as bad - in your own way - as those who voted for Trump. You live in a country that provides, for most people at least, a basic safety net. You also live a country where seeing large scale year on year drops in your income - not relative income but actual - is fairly uncommon for most people except in the times of utmost economic hardship such as the financial crash. This is not the case in the US where people live much closer to the edge of economic catastrophe on a daily basis.

    For you to sit here and scorn them for hoping to make their lives better reflects very poorly on you.
    Well said @Richard_Tyndall
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 295

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    I take your point, and unlike many I couldn't give much of a damn about things like the Supreme Court, as it's likely mostly to affect domestic policy. But threat against the hinterland of democracy is too serious to ignore for anyone who cherishes democracy.
    This stuff deserves our attention because we need to defend democracy in all places. Hong Kong and the USA are, in different ways, the most depressing developments of recent years.

    This thing is worth fighting for, and it's worth us keeping our eyes and ears open.
    Trump was always going to be detrimental to US democracy, and I am not in the least bit charmed by the naiveté of the tens of millions of people who gambled it and nearly lost. It's worth our attention to help make sure it doesn't happen here.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    That just looks like trying to make a joke out of buy singles of everything rather than 6 packs of cans of baked beans.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 2,030

    Excellent header @Richard_Tyndall

    The whole political class needs to consider why Trump won in the first place.

    I doubt they will. It is far easier just to demonise the other side and play to your base.

    Trump is a symptom, not a cause, as Richard identified. It also should be noted that many of his supporters thought he was an unadultered asshole but voted for him anyway because they thought he was the only Republican politician with the balls to push back against what was seen as an agenda that would further marginalise the white working and middle class.

    The one thing that should worry the Democrats though is that many Hispanics increasingly identify with the WWC / W(lower)MC view of the world.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,887

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Which is why you are so much a part of the problem and are as bad - in your own way - as those who voted for Trump. You live in a country that provides, for most people at least, a basic safety net. You also live a country where seeing large scale year on year drops in your income - not relative income but actual - is fairly uncommon for most people except in the times of utmost economic hardship such as the financial crash. This is not the case in the US where people live much closer to the edge of economic catastrophe on a daily basis.

    For you to sit here and scorn them for hoping to make their lives better reflects very poorly on you.
    Ironically though. One of the major causes of huge hardship, unexpected astronomical medical bills, is one of the things they seem most eager to maintain.
    Not that I disagree with the thrust of your post.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    I saw somewhere that "GIANT VOICE" is apparently a code used in the military to trigger some sort of operation. I doubt this is true, but rather shows the level of wishful thinking out there.

    It's the generic name for base wide PA systems.
    I was wondering about that too - that does seem to be the current meaning. But it is or was also the term for Strategic Air Command's annual bombing competition for many years. Which is an excuse to have a Vulcan photo for when the sun is over the yardarm of a Saturday. Less calrific than nibbles (which I am being given - tapenade on water biscuits).



    I once was playing golf at Lossiemouth when one of these took off directly overhead and it felt like you were being drilled into extinction. It didn't help as we were downwind and did not hear it coming

    I will never forget it
    Gives me the creeps these bomber aircraft , especially when people think they are something to behold
    They are though. You have to remember this thing was put on the drawing board in the late 40's and early 50's. It is an incredible bit of engineering for the time.

    What they were designed for is beside the point, although my father in law remembers them being on the runway at Finningley fully armed during the early 60s.

    I witnessed the last flight. Such a shame it had to be grounded.
    in no way is it a shame that a mass killing machine is grounded
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    I don't know why it would be hard to understand. The US is a global superpower and thus its politics are very important for the world. I get if you do not find the focus on parts of its politics relevant to the UK or interesting, but I find it hard to believe you cannot understand why others find it interesting.

    Additionally, culturally america is very important to us, and precisely because it is not this country it is generally easier to follow without getting too emotionally invested so it can be fun (Trump has tested that point).

    Added to that while it is not followed as much, as they approach the French election and other European elections will be talked about on here as well, as were the Australian and Canadian ones.

    Elections and politics are interesting.
  • On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    Well on PB the obsession with America is amplified a lot because after a UK general election an American Presidential election is the second greatest betting opportunity out there.

    2024 will be the first time in PB that sees a UK general election and a Presidential election in the same year.

    The primaries will take place during the campaign period of a UK general election.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 2,030

    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?

    Watching Biden's response to the events of Wednesday, I think he is a lot sharper than I would have been under those circumstances (despite having been born 27 years before me). The comparison with Trump's response is even more stark.
    His first response was very good but he made an unforced error on linking the riots to BLM, especially given the death of an unarmed demonstrator. He had a window of opportunity where there was a real chance to push a wedge between Trump and the bulk of the Republicans. HIs language - and the subsequent social media bans - have now diverted attention away from Trump massively.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    He’s just a has-been loser now. Maybe he is ‘their’ has-been loser. Dunno.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796
    kle4 said:

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    I don't know why it would be hard to understand. The US is a global superpower and thus its politics are very important for the world. I get if you do not find the focus on parts of its politics relevant to the UK or interesting, but I find it hard to believe you cannot understand why others find it interesting.

    Additionally, culturally america is very important to us, and precisely because it is not this country it is generally easier to follow without getting too emotionally invested so it can be fun (Trump has tested that point).

    Added to that while it is not followed as much, as they approach the French election and other European elections will be talked about on here as well, as were the Australian and Canadian ones.

    Elections and politics are interesting.
    yes but you never really hear everyone getting worked up about french people voting for Front Nationale do you?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 9
    I am very pessimistic about the state of US. All the issues raised in the header haven't gone away, in fact will only get worse.

    And polarisation is enormous.

    In comparison, we can say here Brexit has been polarising, but only a tiny minority think things like COVID is a hoax, nobody is debating Boris won the GE and we generally agree across the political spectrum on many issues, it normally arguments about nudging the lever a bit more one way or another. And as soon as protests turn violent, the public quickly aren't on board.

    Where as the US, it seems far too many people willing to excuse behaviour of their side because the other side did it.
  • Alistair said:
    Then white people in Britain wonder why Black Lives Matters is an ongoing process in America and should stop enraging the white folk in America.

    But from that article, further evidence for my plan to close all social media.

    Stepanek’s attorney John Bruzek said his client was influenced by social media and political rhetoric characterizing the protesters as dangerous criminals. Stepanek initially believed he was legally justified but has come to see he was wrong and apologized, Bruzek said.

    “Michael understands how his conduct could have resulted in a much more serious and harmful situation,” he said.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 295
    edited January 9

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Which is why you are so much a part of the problem and are as bad - in your own way - as those who voted for Trump. You live in a country that provides, for most people at least, a basic safety net. You also live a country where seeing large scale year on year drops in your income - not relative income but actual - is fairly uncommon for most people except in the times of utmost economic hardship such as the financial crash. This is not the case in the US where people live much closer to the edge of economic catastrophe on a daily basis.

    For you to sit here and scorn them for hoping to make their lives better reflects very poorly on you.
    I think it's disingenuous to say I "scorn them for hoping to make their lives better".
    I scorn them for endangering EVERYONE'S lives.
    You might as well chide me for scorning a drunk driver for just wanting to get home in good time. Nah, I don't mind that desire, and hey, perhaps you'll even make it home safe.
    But if they smash into a pedestrian because they misjudged the situation horribly are you going to sit there are stroke your chin and say hmmm, yes, I can see why they made that choice.

    It was a bad choice. And not only in hindsight. It was risky, selfish, self-defeating. And we absolutely are allowed to call out the stupid choices other people make. It's actually a necessary part of the democratic process.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 31,369
    Scott_xP said:
    Another upside is that he has quite probably taken his sons’ political prospects down with him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?

    Watching Biden's response to the events of Wednesday, I think he is a lot sharper than I would have been under those circumstances (despite having been born 27 years before me). The comparison with Trump's response is even more stark.
    Whilst there are some benefits to political outsiders which explains why they can be popular, and BIden really has been in office a long long time, there are also benefits to having been part of a political and state machine for so long. BIden probably has the equivalent of muscle memory on how to govern and legislate, and how to judge a moment's politics and the response required. He knows what he is doing, and it will be interesting how much he does indeed lead during his presidency, as some on his own side wish they could use him as a figurehead while pushing other agendas.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 2,466
    I think it's impossible to talk about American electoral politics without talking about race, particularly in the context of the election of the chief birther in the election to replace the first Black President.

    A lot of poor white people are said to take comfort in at least not being poor black people, and a backlash against a black President has also been a large part of Trump's appeal.

    This is not to crudely deride Trump supporters as deplorable racists, worthy only of scorn, but you do have to look honestly at what the problems are if they are to be addressed. Part of what is lacking is a story of America that's more appealing for poor white people that includes them, but isn't based on white racial superiority.

    Another problem is propaganda. I remember around the time when Trump was seeking to abolish Obamacare, the story of the guy who was against Obamacare, and who claimed he would still be covered by the Affordable Care Act - not realising they were one and the same.

    Democrats have to manage not only to help the poor who have been left behind, but be seen by them to have helped them. That might be an even more difficult problem than simply helping them.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,722

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    Never heard of global overheating, or just don't care whether future generations have a reasonably habitable planet?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    kle4 said:

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    I don't know why it would be hard to understand. The US is a global superpower and thus its politics are very important for the world. I get if you do not find the focus on parts of its politics relevant to the UK or interesting, but I find it hard to believe you cannot understand why others find it interesting.

    Additionally, culturally america is very important to us, and precisely because it is not this country it is generally easier to follow without getting too emotionally invested so it can be fun (Trump has tested that point).

    Added to that while it is not followed as much, as they approach the French election and other European elections will be talked about on here as well, as were the Australian and Canadian ones.

    Elections and politics are interesting.
    yes but you never really hear everyone getting worked up about french people voting for Front Nationale do you?
    Not to the same level, because we are more interested in america, but when a lot of people vote for them expect to comments about it. Happens every time a Le Pen gets a sizable vote.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
    He’s a loser though.

    Lost the House.

    Lost the Presidency.

    Lost the Senate.

    Took the L on a grand scale.

    Sad!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    edited January 9

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Which is why you are so much a part of the problem and are as bad - in your own way - as those who voted for Trump. You live in a country that provides, for most people at least, a basic safety net. You also live a country where seeing large scale year on year drops in your income - not relative income but actual - is fairly uncommon for most people except in the times of utmost economic hardship such as the financial crash. This is not the case in the US where people live much closer to the edge of economic catastrophe on a daily basis.

    For you to sit here and scorn them for hoping to make their lives better reflects very poorly on you.
    Indeed, Mr Tyndall. Many of those who voted for Trump, and I know a few, knew who the man was and, regardless, voted for him not because they are stupid or evil but because they felt either that the other option was worse, or (and most pertinently to your post) because they felt no other politician would even speak the name of their problems, let alone address them. Indeed, they felt other politicians vilified them for having the temerity to suggest they might have a problem in the first place.

    If your entire body politic not only deny the genuine problems of a large chunk of the population but go on to vilify them for trying to raise them, at some point the volcano blows.

    We need to separate out the genuine grievances of Trump's supporters from the imagined or cynically exploited ones, and address them, if worse is not to follow, as both Mr Tyndall and Mr Herdson have both highlighted. Denigrating 74+m voters, per Ms Batty, is precisely the wrong thing to do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 9
    Trump's base was certainly the white working class who felt left behind by globalisation.

    For example while Trump won whites without a college degree by a landslide 67% to just 32% for Biden, Biden actually won whites with a college degree, who are still doing relatively well from globalisation in professional jobs less hit by lockdowns and less affected by automation, by 51% to 48% for Trump.

    However Trump's appeal to white working class voters did not extend to non white working class voters. Biden won non-whites without a college degree by a a landslide 72% to just 26% for Trump. Trump actually did better with non-whites with a college degree, getting 27% of their votes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    i find this obsession wth US politics so hard to understand frankly - to the point of ranting against voters who are not even this side of the Atlantic. Trump may have messed up America but has not messed up the world too much -unlike some of his predecessors - Can we just concentrate on this side of the pond and stop giving the US an even bigger importance that even it thinks it has? Especially when getting down to invading buildings.Isn't this something for them to sort out ?
    Well on PB the obsession with America is amplified a lot because after a UK general election an American Presidential election is the second greatest betting opportunity out there.

    2024 will be the first time in PB that sees a UK general election and a Presidential election in the same year.

    The primaries will take place during the campaign period of a UK general election.
    i get the punting side and even had a bet myself on it- but we are past punting on it now . Obviously if this is what people want on a site then who I am to say that its too much focus but just find it incredulous how people can get worked up by events in a country thousands of miles away when its not directly affecting anything in Britain
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 12,184
    Any updates on Israel's vaccination count? is there a better data source than https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,796

    Any updates on Israel's vaccination count? is there a better data source than https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations ?

    Worth coming second to Israel though as Iran will recognise you as the winner!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 22,548
    tlg86 said:

    Interesting piece, thanks Richard. But to what extent did Trump win in 2016 and still get a lot of votes in 2020 simply by being the Republican candidate? I know he particularly well in the rust belt, which supports the globalisation argument, but the political map looks much like it has done for many years now.

    [Posted this to the wrong comment. Apologies to Casino and yourself.]

    I don't really know - although I would make two points on that.

    If any year was one where we should have seen a Democrat landslide, given how bad the Republican candidate was, it was 2020.

    And we see from the subsequent polling that there are still millions of Americans actively supporting Trump even as the Republican leadership has, at long last, abandoned him. As has already been said, they cannot all be mad or bad. Most of them will be desperate people who just need help and hope and don't see it coming from the mainstream of either party.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 2,030

    Good article, Richard.

    I thought @Sean_F put it very well when he said many Americans know he's a son of a bitch but think he's their son of a bitch.

    Sadly I think that is the great error they made. He never was 'their Son of Bitch'. To be rather crude about it, they were all his bitches and he would use them without regard until they were no longer of use to him.
    But, whatever one thinks of Trump, he has largely implemented (or at least sincerely tried to implement) the manifesto he was elected on in 2016. That will count for a lot.

    I think both @rcs1000 and myself thought he was full of hot-air in 2016, and would end-up governing as a relatively standard Republican with a lot of populist windy rhetoric on top.
    He’s a loser though.

    Lost the House.

    Lost the Presidency.

    Lost the Senate.

    Took the L on a grand scale.

    Sad!
    What do you think of the people who voted for him?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266
    MrEd said:

    i am not terribly interested in US politics and think the UK would be far better obsessing about its own or at least Europe but isn't Biden a bit doddery mentally ? Or has this been cured?

    Watching Biden's response to the events of Wednesday, I think he is a lot sharper than I would have been under those circumstances (despite having been born 27 years before me). The comparison with Trump's response is even more stark.
    His first response was very good but he made an unforced error on linking the riots to BLM, especially given the death of an unarmed demonstrator. He had a window of opportunity where there was a real chance to push a wedge between Trump and the bulk of the Republicans. HIs language - and the subsequent social media bans - have now diverted attention away from Trump massively.
    You need to know you are not alone at this difficult time. We are here for you.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 3,882
    Scott_xP said:
    Can I just point out the wonderful name of the governor? Perhaps he should have become a judge...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    Scott_xP said:
    Sad to see them denied such a sharp mind in the years to come.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 34,793
    Good piece Richard.

    The problem Trump has had, though, is that while he's often identified serious problems (the US's import-export balance, for example), his policies have often made the problems worse.

    Under President Trump, the US's Current Account Deficit has widened alarmingly. In the third quarter of 2020, it was $176bn. That's a $700bn annual run rate.

    That's almost the same as the combined total exports of Canada and Australia ($800bn).

    Why has the deficit got worse under redoubtable trade hawks like Wilbur Ross? Well, it's because if you use tariffs to increase the price of steel in the US, then you make US vehicles more expensive than German or Canadian or Japanese ones. A few thousand jobs saved in steel or coal often results in jobs lost down the chain, and a worse trade deficit.

    Ultimately, while Trump identified pain points, he found himself in hock to narrow interests, seeking their own benefit. (The irony is that if you want to reduce the overall trade deficit, you might want to start reducing tariffs on factor inputs.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    edited January 9
    Scott_xP said:
    Not remotely predictable.....

    (that the FBI would try to get them to admit to their crimes by this route!)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 17,156

    On topic.
    Actually, I think I WILL reserve the right to feel scorn at those who voted for Trump.

    Here is a man who, before the election, was revealed to be a racist, disability-mocking sex pest.

    Anyone who voted for him, voted to put him into a position of trust. The position where not only the buck stops in terms of overseeing the care of the vulnerable, but also the tone is set.
    Even if you thought your economic interests would be marginally better with that kind of man in the White House (and I doubt that's the case anyway), you're throwing the vulnerable under the bus.

    That's the voting equivalent of pushing a granny over to grab the last bottle of paracetamol off the pharmacy shelves, because hey, YOU want it.

    Trump is not, and has never been "at times borderline psychopathic". He's fully over the line 100% of the time. He's not just damaged, he's full-blown mad, and as much was clear LONG before even the Rep primaries were finished.

    If you aren't going to pay enough attention to whom you're voting for, don't fucking vote at all, you don't know what you're doing. If you don't care that someone is a clear and present danger to the democratic process, don't fucking vote, you don't deserve it. If all you care about is your own pocket, no matter who gets hurt then vote as you see fit but don't get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a scumbag for your choice.

    Every single person who voted for Trump either had their eyes closed or just didn't care that people would get hurt. No exceptions. I have more respect for people who drink drive, and I really, really hate those bastards.

    Yep. The header is a good take but so is this. This sentiment - angry contempt for Trump supporters - should not dominate but it should be in the mix. The lessons to be learnt apply to the voters as well as to the political class. Not everything can be explained away by macro "left behind" narratives. Politicians to electorate should not be an adult to child relationship. Voting, and who for, is a right and with a right comes responsibilities. Many did not live up to that bargain here. They need to realize this.
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