Well, I think Farage has hit a nerve here. I think we should help some Syrian refugees. Christians probably head the list because of the discrimination against them. Why do the left disagree?
No point constructing a straw-man argument here.
Labour have already said we should take some refugees.They cite 500 refugees which is a ridiculously low number given the severity of the problem.
It is this right of centre government which disagrees presumably as a result of fear of losing votes to the far-right.
Labour would take 500 refugees,well labour are wrong and the coalition are right on this.
500 hundred will turn into a thousand,then a thousand will turn into two thousand(we know how it works and you can call me a heartless bast**d,I couldn't give a sh*t),so we take a few hundred out of 7 to 9 million refugee's,WTF will that do to making the 7 to 9 million refugee's life better that are left behind,only relax your guilt trip that Britain owes the rest of the word something.
The coalition are right and these people should be looked after nearer to they country,by millions of pounds of aid that Britain as already given.
Anyone who cannot explain the statistical and scientific errors in treating a short trend in temperature in a small portion of the globe - less than 0.1% - as somehow "proof" that the honest work of many climate scientists is erroneous has no right to lecture others or accuse them of being responsible for a scam.
The lack of self-awareness would be shocking, were it not sadly so commonplace.
Talk about desperate.
Surely "can explain"? But yes, I know what you mean.
I'd also add that it is perfectly reasonable to expect a general warming trend to include localised periods of colder/wetter/drier weather in some areas. For instance, if one sympton of climate change is that the jetstreams are misbehaving, then some areas will e.g. get cold polar air even as others get warmer. Therefore the existence of some periods of cold weather is not - a priori - an argument against global warming, or more precisely anthropogenic climate change.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
As recently as early November Yes was trading at 6.6 and No at 1.17
Liquidity is now excellent. Matched: GBP 72,723
72 grand matched isn't the measure of liquidity, and in any case there is more matched on a first goalscorer market of a Premier League match
The truth is if you wanted £300 on Yes you would have wiped out the Betfair market.. v shallow market, not liquid at all
I did not say that the matched sum was a measure of liquidity.
You'd have to be a bit bonkers to waste your £300 backing Yes down to short odds, as you'd get much better value for your cash laying No. At the time of writing £352 is available at 1.25, with a further £371 available at 1.26 and £188 at 1.27
One interesting feature - there are a helluva a lot of teachers amongst them and they loathe what Gove is doing
Good, he's obviously doing something right.
There always a few people who, because they went to school several years ago, think they're experts on education. A bit like the people who once visted a friend in hospital and therefore feel entitled to pontificate about the state of the NHS!
There are also plenty of people with first hand experience of today's school system who know exactly how dire it is and will see the reforms being proposed as the start of a long and difficult but very necessary process to start to put things right.
Only the ideologues are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that our education system is a mess and has been since the mid 80s.
Arguing against myself in a way, the primary school two of my grandchildren go is much more demanding than either the one I went to in the 40's or that to which their father (and his siblings) went in the 60's. And I think it's more demanding than those my older grandchildren wqent to in the 90's. One of those is now a teacher and seems to put in a lot more hours than is often alleged.
Primary and Junior schools are miles better than they were when I was at school and yes they are far more demanding.
Most senior schools are so bad that they are almost beyond help. Overall our secondary education is shamefully bad and needs a complete overhaul. After 30 years of mismanagement I sometimes wonder if it is beyond help in its current form.
Anyone who cannot explain the statistical and scientific errors in treating a short trend in temperature in a small portion of the globe - less than 0.1% - as somehow "proof" that the honest work of many climate scientists is erroneous has no right to lecture others or accuse them of being responsible for a scam.
The lack of self-awareness would be shocking, were it not sadly so commonplace.
Talk about desperate.
Anyone who doesn't know that it is not just a short term trend and is not confined to one small area of the globe has no right to make any comment about climate science at all.
Talk about deluded.
Richard, I've offered many times to meet you in person so that I can explain to you where you are mistaken on this.
I will not engage with you any further on this issue on the internet, but that offer is still open.
I don't think you know what U-Turn means by the sound of it
If Farage had said today that he didn't support offering asylum to Syrian refugees, that would have been a U-Turn.
Specifying which Syrian refugees he wants to offer asylum to, rightly or wrongly, is not a U-Turn.
When the Lib Dems said they would abolish tuition fees, then voted to treble them, that was a U-Turn.
UKIP seem to have some half arsed policy on High Speed Railway lines in their last manifesto, but weren't proposing building HS2 so opposing it now isn't a U-Turn, just as proposing building three new airports, then opposing a different one wouldn't be either.
If they oppose UK leaving the EU, I'd give you that one, or if they opposed Grammar schools.
Is proposing a flat tax then saying they wanted 40% top rate and 25% low rate a U-Turn? UKIP seem to have done that.. or is that just a policy change
What kind of change of policy isn't a U-Turn in your book?
Try telling a Syrian Muslim who might have been hoping to take asylum in this country that it isn't a U-turn.
Without making this an HS2-fest, I would have sympathy with your view if they had not thrown *all* support for high-speed rail out of the window since the GE. (*) There's no way that could be called that anything other than a U-turn.
I know you're a UKIP supporter, but that shouldn't stop you from doing some critical thinking about your party occasionally.
(*) I'd be interested to know if this is wrong; I've done some searching and it seems that UKIP is now fully against high-speed rail.
I might be forced into a U-Turn on UKIP and High Speed Rail...
Well, I think Farage has hit a nerve here. I think we should help some Syrian refugees. Christians probably head the list because of the discrimination against them. Why do the left disagree?
No point constructing a straw-man argument here.
Labour have already said we should take some refugees.They cite 500 refugees which is a ridiculously low number given the severity of the problem.
It is this right of centre government which disagrees presumably as a result of fear of losing votes to the far-right.
Labour would take 500 refugees,well labour are wrong and the coalition are right on this.
500 hundred will turn into a thousand,then a thousand will turn into two thousand(we know how it works and you can call me a heartless bast**d,I couldn't give a sh*t),so we take a few hundred out of 7 to 9 million refugee's,WTF will that do to making the 7 to 9 million refugee's life better that are left behind,only relax your guilt trip that Britain owes the rest of the word something.
The coalition are right and these people should be looked after nearer to they country,by millions of pounds of aid that Britain as already given.
At the moment,these refugees are stuck in tents in the middle of a snow-filled winter in lands close to Syria.
If the West wants to act as a moral policeman,they should also help to ease some of the burden of the refugees.
Ofcourse it is the West` action in Libya which emboldened the Free Syrian Army to take up arms in the first place leading to this crisis.And Libya is also becoming another basket-case.
One interesting feature - there are a helluva a lot of teachers amongst them and they loathe what Gove is doing
Good, he's obviously doing something right.
There always a few people who, because they went to school several years ago, think they're experts on education. A bit like the people who once visted a friend in hospital and therefore feel entitled to pontificate about the state of the NHS!
There are also plenty of people with first hand experience of today's school system who know exactly how dire it is and will see the reforms being proposed as the start of a long and difficult but very necessary process to start to put things right.
Only the ideologues are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that our education system is a mess and has been since the mid 80s.
Arguing against myself in a way, the primary school two of my grandchildren go is much more demanding than either the one I went to in the 40's or that to which their father (and his siblings) went in the 60's. And I think it's more demanding than those my older grandchildren wqent to in the 90's. One of those is now a teacher and seems to put in a lot more hours than is often alleged.
Primary and Junior schools are miles better than they were when I was at school and yes they are far more demanding.
Most senior schools are so bad that they are almost beyond help. Overall our secondary education is shamefully bad and needs a complete overhaul. After 30 years of mismanagement I sometimes wonder if it is beyond help in its current form.
Where do you live Richard? Where I live the grammar school is still going strong and the comprehensive standards have been raised. My son is just about to go to university following an education in a school which is a comp but whose academic achievements are on a par with the grammar for 75% of the kids. I am no fan of Labour but secondary schools are probably (the only) area they did not completely screw up.
Mr. SMukesh, I fear that whilst there are some elements of truth in that view it does disregard the more important fact that it is not the West that is perpetrating atrocity, eating hearts and raping men and women.
As well as the other matters we've discussed, rebuilding Syria will be immensely difficult because of the medieval barbarity that the pro- and anti-Assad forces have perpetrated. Even when the war finally ends, it's hard to see how anything resembling real peace can come about.
Well, I think Farage has hit a nerve here. I think we should help some Syrian refugees. Christians probably head the list because of the discrimination against them. Why do the left disagree?
No point constructing a straw-man argument here.
Labour have already said we should take some refugees.They cite 500 refugees which is a ridiculously low number given the severity of the problem.
It is this right of centre government which disagrees presumably as a result of fear of losing votes to the far-right.
Labour would take 500 refugees,well labour are wrong and the coalition are right on this.
500 hundred will turn into a thousand,then a thousand will turn into two thousand(we know how it works and you can call me a heartless bast**d,I couldn't give a sh*t),so we take a few hundred out of 7 to 9 million refugee's,WTF will that do to making the 7 to 9 million refugee's life better that are left behind,only relax your guilt trip that Britain owes the rest of the word something.
The coalition are right and these people should be looked after nearer to they country,by millions of pounds of aid that Britain as already given.
At the moment,these refugees are stuck in tents in the middle of a snow-filled winter in lands close to Syria.
If the West wants to act as a moral policeman,they should also help to ease some of the burden of the refugees.
Ofcourse it is the West` action in Libya which emboldened the Free Syrian Army to take up arms in the first place leading to this crisis.And Libya is also becoming another basket-case.
If you mean the west = England,then pull my vote out of us being the moral policeman of the world.
Russia on one side and Saudi Arabia on the other side of the Syrian war,these 2 countries have more of a case of easing the burden of the refugee's.
As recently as early November Yes was trading at 6.6 and No at 1.17
Liquidity is now excellent. Matched: GBP 72,723
72 grand matched isn't the measure of liquidity, and in any case there is more matched on a first goalscorer market of a Premier League match
The truth is if you wanted £300 on Yes you would have wiped out the Betfair market.. v shallow market, not liquid at all
I did not say that the matched sum was a measure of liquidity.
You'd have to be a bit bonkers to waste your £300 backing Yes down to short odds, as you'd get much better value for your cash laying No. At the time of writing £352 is available at 1.25, with a further £371 available at 1.26 and £188 at 1.27
Isnt it the same dough?
If you put up £50 at EVS on Betfair it appears as £50 to back one side, and £50 to lay the other
Well, I think Farage has hit a nerve here. I think we should help some Syrian refugees. Christians probably head the list because of the discrimination against them. Why do the left disagree?
No point constructing a straw-man argument here.
Labour have already said we should take some refugees.They cite 500 refugees which is a ridiculously low number given the severity of the problem.
It is this right of centre government which disagrees presumably as a result of fear of losing votes to the far-right.
Labour would take 500 refugees,well labour are wrong and the coalition are right on this.
500 hundred will turn into a thousand,then a thousand will turn into two thousand(we know how it works and you can call me a heartless bast**d,I couldn't give a sh*t),so we take a few hundred out of 7 to 9 million refugee's,WTF will that do to making the 7 to 9 million refugee's life better that are left behind,only relax your guilt trip that Britain owes the rest of the word something.
The coalition are right and these people should be looked after nearer to they country,by millions of pounds of aid that Britain as already given.
At the moment,these refugees are stuck in tents in the middle of a snow-filled winter in lands close to Syria.
If the West wants to act as a moral policeman,they should also help to ease some of the burden of the refugees.
Ofcourse it is the West` action in Libya which emboldened the Free Syrian Army to take up arms in the first place leading to this crisis.And Libya is also becoming another basket-case.
The West is blamed if we do nothing (Syria), blamed if we do something but not everything (Libya) and blamed if we go all in, and spend trillions and sacrifice 1000s of soldiers (Iraq, Afghanistan).
Enough. There is no more appetite for western military involvememt in the world of Islam. Equally, there is no more appetite in the West to listen to the psychotic whingeing of Islamists, who are determined to hate us whatever we do.
Let us build a big metaphorical fence, as good fences make good neighbours. Let us end large scale immigration from Muslim countries, even as we agree never to interfere with their lives, over there, ever again. Meanwhile enforce laws against FGM and the burqa (etc) in the west, such that those Muslims who do not wish to live by secular Western laws will get the message: Go Home.
Job done.
Too late mate to say we won`t intervene.
Iraq is a bloodbath,Libya is well on it`s way there and Syria wouldn`t have arisen against Assad if Gaddhafi wasn`t overthrown by Western bombing.
It's worth remembering that when the West, particularly the US, took military action to save the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo from evil perpetrated by largely Christian Serbs, they got precious little thanks for their pains from the Muslim world. Rather Islamists have woven that conflict into their victimhood narrative, conveniently omitting the role of the US in shaking Europe out of its torpor and the role of the Jewish community in awakening the US's conscience.
Whatever we now do for the victims of the Syrian civil war will bring us no thanks, will never be seen as enough and will probably be used against us. We should certainly try to provide aid to the refugees in their camps but we do - as I, Sean T and others have observed - owe a special duty to help the Christians of the Middle East who are slowly and viciously being squeezed out of their homeland.
We may well end up with a purely Muslim Middle East - and this would be a great loss for the peoples of that area. As the recent Byzantium documentary showed, the Middle and Near East has been at its most successful and flourishing when it was diverse: intellectually, religiously and with lots of different communities living and working together.
It seems a puzzle - and a tragedy - that the Muslim world is so intent on cutting its nose off to spite its face.
On a purely moral level, it is our duty to help the Christians of the Middle East, but on a selfish level it makes sense, too: they tend to be well-educated, hard-working, motivated, and pretty sober, yet - because of their Christian ethos - they are also able to integrate very easily into a late/post Christian society (like the UK) - their attitudes towards women are generally about five centuries ahead of their Muslim brethren.
And no Copt is ever going to strap on a suicide vest and blow us up on the 29 bus to Kentish Town.
Agree - and that is why the Middle East can ill afford the loss of these communities. But since they are in the process of being pushed out better that they live amongst us than be slaughtered in their homelands. The decline of the Christian communities is a tragedy on the scale of the expulsion of the Jews from Spain many of whom, ironically, ended up in the Ottoman Empire from where their descendants were later expelled in the last 70 years.
A quiet day on the econometrics front but not all agencies have been idle.
Markit published their Retail Sales PMI for the Eurozone this morning and the news is bleak.
Retail Sales in Germany, the only country surveyed to show any growth, disappointed with a slowing rate of growth. However, this may be a temporary blip as recent PMIs for German Manufacturing and Services are more positive.
France suffered most of all with a sharp decline to a seven month low.
Italy fared better, with a sharp increase, but from a very low base. Still it recorded its best figures for nearly three years. Andrea must have received some expensive Christmas presents.
Here are the figures. As with most Markit indices 50 represents flat growth.
Markit Eurozone Retail Sales PMI summary December 30 2013
Index Eurozone 47.7 2-month low Germany 50.7 8-month low France 46.1 7-month low Italy 45.3 33-month high
We await UK figures for December Retail Sales. So far little comment in the press about how the year has ended.
I don't think you know what U-Turn means by the sound of it
If Farage had said today that he didn't support offering asylum to Syrian refugees, that would have been a U-Turn.
Specifying which Syrian refugees he wants to offer asylum to, rightly or wrongly, is not a U-Turn.
When the Lib Dems said they would abolish tuition fees, then voted to treble them, that was a U-Turn.
UKIP seem to have some half arsed policy on High Speed Railway lines in their last manifesto, but weren't proposing building HS2 so opposing it now isn't a U-Turn, just as proposing building three new airports, then opposing a different one wouldn't be either.
If they oppose UK leaving the EU, I'd give you that one, or if they opposed Grammar schools.
Is proposing a flat tax then saying they wanted 40% top rate and 25% low rate a U-Turn? UKIP seem to have done that.. or is that just a policy change
What kind of change of policy isn't a U-Turn in your book?
Try telling a Syrian Muslim who might have been hoping to take asylum in this country that it isn't a U-turn.
Without making this an HS2-fest, I would have sympathy with your view if they had not thrown *all* support for high-speed rail out of the window since the GE. (*) There's no way that could be called that anything other than a U-turn.
I know you're a UKIP supporter, but that shouldn't stop you from doing some critical thinking about your party occasionally.
(*) I'd be interested to know if this is wrong; I've done some searching and it seems that UKIP is now fully against high-speed rail.
I might be forced into a U-Turn on UKIP and High Speed Rail...
Don't make a U-turn on a high speed rail ! The consequences will not be pretty.
HS2 specifies a minimum horizontal curve radius of 8.2 km. Therefore a U-turn at full speed would require 16.4 km, or 10 miles. Which is probably 9.999 miles more than any politician takes to U-turn.
However at 400 km/h, the U-turn would take an HS2 train around 7.5 minutes. Which is probably a lot quicker than it would take a politician to write a press release or read Twitter.
Anyone who cannot explain the statistical and scientific errors in treating a short trend in temperature in a small portion of the globe - less than 0.1% - as somehow "proof" that the honest work of many climate scientists is erroneous has no right to lecture others or accuse them of being responsible for a scam.
The lack of self-awareness would be shocking, were it not sadly so commonplace.
Talk about desperate.
Anyone who doesn't know that it is not just a short term trend and is not confined to one small area of the globe has no right to make any comment about climate science at all.
Talk about deluded.
Richard, I've offered many times to meet you in person so that I can explain to you where you are mistaken on this.
I will not engage with you any further on this issue on the internet, but that offer is still open.
It would be cool to meet up sometime but I would somewhat dubious about you trying to convince me I am wrong about a discipline on which I have made my living for the last 25 years. It would rather make a mockery of pretty much my whole career in both geology and archaeology. I am not sure I could take the trauma :-)
One interesting feature - there are a helluva a lot of teachers amongst them and they loathe what Gove is doing
Good, he's obviously doing something right.
There always a few people who, because they went to school several years ago, think they're experts on education. A bit like the people who once visted a friend in hospital and therefore feel entitled to pontificate about the state of the NHS!
There are also plenty of people with first hand experience of today's school system who know exactly how dire it is and will see the reforms being proposed as the start of a long and difficult but very necessary process to start to put things right.
Only the ideologues are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that our education system is a mess and has been since the mid 80s.
Arguing against myself in a way, the primary school two of my grandchildren go is much more demanding than either the one I went to in the 40's or that to which their father (and his siblings) went in the 60's. And I think it's more demanding than those my older grandchildren wqent to in the 90's. One of those is now a teacher and seems to put in a lot more hours than is often alleged.
Primary and Junior schools are miles better than they were when I was at school and yes they are far more demanding.
Most senior schools are so bad that they are almost beyond help. Overall our secondary education is shamefully bad and needs a complete overhaul. After 30 years of mismanagement I sometimes wonder if it is beyond help in its current form.
Where do you live Richard? Where I live the grammar school is still going strong and the comprehensive standards have been raised. My son is just about to go to university following an education in a school which is a comp but whose academic achievements are on a par with the grammar for 75% of the kids. I am no fan of Labour but secondary schools are probably (the only) area they did not completely screw up.
I now live in Lincolnshire and my eldest attends Mrs T's Grammar school in Grantham. My experience however is related to my involvement with schools in Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
I saw the documentary: a 3-parter by Simon Sebag-Montefiore (who did one on Rome last year). Very interesting, especially if you've been to Istanbul (one of my favourite cities). Bernard Lewis has also tried to address the same question: why one of the most vibrant cultures - as Islam was for a period - stopped developing and became both defensive and hostile, turning into a sort of passive-aggressive culture at odds with its own history.
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
I'm not a good historian ……. my 50's Grammar School didn't teach the subject to those who wanted to study science ……. but aren't these vicious inter-Muslim was approximately 1500 years after the start of Islamd? About the same period as the similarly vicious wars started between Western Christian sects as a reult of the Reformation. Is there some "rule of 1500" here?
I'm not a good historian ……. my 50's Grammar School didn't teach the subject to those who wanted to study science ……. but aren't these vicious inter-Muslim was approximately 1500 years after the start of Islamd? About the same period as the similarly vicious wars started between Western Christian sects as a reult of the Reformation. Is there some "rule of 1500" here?
I think Sunnis and Shias have been at odds with each other pretty much since the beginning, a quarrel originating with who was the true inheritor of Mohammed's mantle.
A sort of murderous 14 century long family quarrel over who should inherit the sherry glasses, if you will......
And over in America there is a Mickey Mouse recovery
Bloomberg reports:
The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose, reaching an all-time closing high and headed toward its biggest annual gain since 1996, as Walt Disney Co. led a rally in consumer shares.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
I saw the documentary: a 3-parter by Simon Sebag-Montefiore (who did one on Rome last year). Very interesting, especially if you've been to Istanbul (one of my favourite cities). Bernard Lewis has also tried to address the same question: why one of the most vibrant cultures - as Islam was for a period - stopped developing and became both defensive and hostile, turning into a sort of passive-aggressive culture at odds with its own history.
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
Surely intolerance leads to a closed mind to ideas from abroad? Tolerant countries can attract the best people and ideas from other countries, increasing their competitiveness. Intolerant countries have to try to make-do with their own people.
"We're the biggest and best, so why should we implement your new ideas?"
IMHO this had a small part to play in the fall of the British Empire - with hindsight it was visible back as far as the 1851 Great Exhibition, with innovations like Colt's guns and McCormick's reaping machine that were widely admired in the world, but (from what I have read) were disparaged in Britain.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
I saw the documentary: a 3-parter by Simon Sebag-Montefiore (who did one on Rome last year). Very interesting, especially if you've been to Istanbul (one of my favourite cities). Bernard Lewis has also tried to address the same question: why one of the most vibrant cultures - as Islam was for a period - stopped developing and became both defensive and hostile, turning into a sort of passive-aggressive culture at odds with its own history.
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
Surely intolerance leads to a closed mind to ideas from abroad? Tolerant countries can attract the best people and ideas from other countries, increasing their competitiveness. Intolerant countries have to try to make-do with their own people.
"We're the biggest and best, so why should we implement your new ideas?"
IMHO this had a small part to play in the fall of the British Empire - with hindsight it was visible back as far as the 1851 Great Exhibition, with innovations like Colt's guns and McCormick's reaping machine that were widely admired in the world, but (from what I have read) were disparaged in Britain.
One sees the same thing today when anyone suggests significant improvements to the NHS; the admin establishment" becomes defensive …… it was our idea and no-one does it better!
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
I saw the documentary: a 3-parter by Simon Sebag-Montefiore (who did one on Rome last year). Very interesting, especially if you've been to Istanbul (one of my favourite cities). Bernard Lewis has also tried to address the same question: why one of the most vibrant cultures - as Islam was for a period - stopped developing and became both defensive and hostile, turning into a sort of passive-aggressive culture at odds with its own history.
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
Surely intolerance leads to a closed mind to ideas from abroad? Tolerant countries can attract the best people and ideas from other countries, increasing their competitiveness. Intolerant countries have to try to make-do with their own people.
"We're the biggest and best, so why should we implement your new ideas?"
IMHO this had a small part to play in the fall of the British Empire - with hindsight it was visible back as far as the 1851 Great Exhibition, with innovations like Colt's guns and McCormick's reaping machine that were widely admired in the world, but (from what I have read) were disparaged in Britain.
I agree. I only cited Spain because it offers a challenge to your theory. It was both an intolerant and successful country, for a while anyway.
The Ottoman Emperors did try and import ideas from the West to sustain them. But that doesn't explain why their own societies, despite being very diverse, got stuck into a sort of intellectual stasis from which, by and large, the Islamic world has yet to emerge.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
I'm not a good historian ……. my 50's Grammar School didn't teach the subject to those who wanted to study science ……. but aren't these vicious inter-Muslim was approximately 1500 years after the start of Islamd? About the same period as the similarly vicious wars started between Western Christian sects as a reult of the Reformation. Is there some "rule of 1500" here?
I think Sunnis and Shias have been at odds with each other pretty much since the beginning, a quarrel originating with who was the true inheritor of Mohammed's mantle.
A sort of murderous 14 century long family quarrel over who should inherit the sherry glasses, if you will......
The Ottoman-Safavid War raged during the 16th Century - largely Sunni v. Shia.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
I thought Blair read Jurisprudence at Oxford.
You're right. He studied law. He learnt nothing from it clearly.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
My regret is that I did not travel to Syria in early 2011 when I had the chance. A friend went and loved it. I planned to go that summer but family matters intervened so it was put on hold for later in the year. Then the rogue trader matter blew up at work so that was the next 19 months of my life taken care of.
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
I thought Blair read Jurisprudence at Oxford.
You're right. He studied law. He learnt nothing from it clearly.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
I have a friend who is a partner at a firm of accountants, and for his graduate pool picks only people who haven't done accountancy/finance degrees at Uni.
IMHO the best barristers are the ones who have done other things than the law.
Solicitors themselves, well that's a different story.
My regret is that I did not travel to Syria in early 2011 when I had the chance. A friend went and loved it. I planned to go that summer but family matters intervened so it was put on hold for later in the year. Then the rogue trader matter blew up at work so that was the next 19 months of my life taken care of.
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
A few years ago, I did the Libya/Egypt trip, following the route of the Desert Rats/8th Army during the second Battle of El-Alamein.
Was weird a few years later, seeing the places I visited being at the centre of Civil Wars.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
I thought Blair read Jurisprudence at Oxford.
You're right. He studied law. He learnt nothing from it clearly.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
I have a friend who is a partner at a firm of accountants, and for his graduate pool picks only people who haven't done accountancy/finance degrees at Uni.
IMHO the best barristers are the ones who have done other things than the law.
Solicitors themselves, well that's a different story.
I am both and have never regretted not doing a law degree. There is a surprising lack of intellectual curiosity amongst too many nominally highly educated people. It's as if their education has squashed the life out of their mind.
Just backed Spurs to beat Man U and Arsenal this week.
You are having me on....
You utter utter utter [moderated] OSR
I could go off you young man.
Hey, I keep on winning money on my Spurs bets.
You did say you'd bet on Stoke conceding 3 against us....
I of course kept up my 100% wrong predictions by saying Spurs would ship a lot of goals in that game and betting on Stoke as value hedge at 15-2. Best £50 loss since I didn't lose £500 to Computerash on the pre-Xmas You Gov...
Time for me to lump on the Red Devils as another hedge using those 'winnings'.
@Cyclefree Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops. Complex and interesting etc. But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
They are indeed. A classic case of people believing what they want to believe. Dangerous for our leaders to be so deluded because it has meant that they have failed to confront what should be confronted and have allowed the Islamist narrative to take root.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
I thought Blair read Jurisprudence at Oxford.
You're right. He studied law. He learnt nothing from it clearly.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
I have a friend who is a partner at a firm of accountants, and for his graduate pool picks only people who haven't done accountancy/finance degrees at Uni.
IMHO the best barristers are the ones who have done other things than the law.
Solicitors themselves, well that's a different story.
I am both and have never regretted not doing a law degree. There is a surprising lack of intellectual curiosity amongst too many nominally highly educated people. It's as if their education has squashed the life out of their mind.
I think the problem with a lot of professions, is that there's a lot of homogeneity amongst the staff, in terms of life experience.
I'm from what is termed an ethnic minority, but my education and general life experiences is similar to everyone else's.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Just backed Spurs to beat Man U and Arsenal this week.
You are having me on....
You utter utter utter [moderated] OSR
I could go off you young man.
Hey, I keep on winning money on my Spurs bets.
You did say you'd bet on Stoke conceding 3 against us....
I of course kept up my 100% wrong predictions by saying Spurs would ship a lot of goals in that game and betting on Stoke as value hedge at 15-2. Best £50 loss since I didn't lose £500 to Computerash on the pre-Xmas You Gov...
Time for me to lump on the Red Devils as another hedge using those 'winnings'.
There's been some huge overreactions re Spurs.
That said, I'm not sure Tim Sherwood is the right answer for Spurs.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
I saw the documentary: a 3-parter by Simon Sebag-Montefiore (who did one on Rome last year). Very interesting, especially if you've been to Istanbul (one of my favourite cities). Bernard Lewis has also tried to address the same question: why one of the most vibrant cultures - as Islam was for a period - stopped developing and became both defensive and hostile, turning into a sort of passive-aggressive culture at odds with its own history.
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
In "Guns, Germs and steel" by Jared Diamond he attributed the success of the European powers to competition between nation states.
Slow trading on the Stock Exchange today, but some early pointers? A reaction to the disappointing Eurozone Retail Sales PMIs or some early info from the UK supermarkets?
Sainsbury lost 1.9 percent to 371.1 pence as a gauge of retail stocks dropped the most of the 19 industry groups on the Stoxx Europe 600 Index, a benchmark for the region. Marks & Spencer Group Plc (MKS) declined 1.7 percent to 442.7 pence. William Morrison Supermarkets Plc fell 1.5 percent to 263.7 pence.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
My regret is that I did not travel to Syria in early 2011 when I had the chance. A friend went and loved it. I planned to go that summer but family matters intervened so it was put on hold for later in the year. Then the rogue trader matter blew up at work so that was the next 19 months of my life taken care of.
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
A few years ago, I did the Libya/Egypt trip, following the route of the Desert Rats/8th Army during the second Battle of El-Alamein.
Was weird a few years later, seeing the places I visited being at the centre of Civil Wars.
One of the less well known facts about Libya is that it has fantastic Roman remains. Leptis Magna must be the largest and most complete Roman city anywhere. They also have amazing beaches. Would be a tourist paradise if only they could get their act together.
A case can be made, indeed I have made it today, that we should act to offer sanctury to Christians from the middle east. But this is because they are facing long term and terminal persecution, not because they are christian, "kin" (seriously?) or we have a particular moral duty towards them as a group.
IMO it would be something of a shame to import more god botherers as our own die whatever the particular flavour. Regrettable, but probably, possibly not worth letting them die for their delusions.
Just let's not kid ourselves. The scales on the cost benefit of religion are now so heavily weighted a big guy in the clouds curing cancer for the whole planet could not redress the balance.
You're right. He studied law. He learnt nothing from it clearly.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
I have a friend who is a partner at a firm of accountants, and for his graduate pool picks only people who haven't done accountancy/finance degrees at Uni.
IMHO the best barristers are the ones who have done other things than the law.
Solicitors themselves, well that's a different story.
I am both and have never regretted not doing a law degree. There is a surprising lack of intellectual curiosity amongst too many nominally highly educated people. It's as if their education has squashed the life out of their mind.
I think the problem with a lot of professions, is that there's a lot of homogeneity amongst the staff, in terms of life experience.
I'm from what is termed an ethnic minority, but my education and general life experiences is similar to everyone else's.
Yes - that may well be part of it. My own career history and background are rather different from most of my fellow lawyers. I see that as a strength but it also means that in a profession with a strong partnership / club ethos you are seen as not quite "fitting in" so I have forged my own relatively unusual path, which has - fortunately - proved a particular strength for me in my current role.
It is I think hard to balance the tension between fitting in and being a team player, on the one hand, and playing to your individual strengths and really being yourself, on the other. I don't think you can ever be really happy at work if you can't be yourself to a more significant extent than is generally allowed.
My regret is that I did not travel to Syria in early 2011 when I had the chance. A friend went and loved it. I planned to go that summer but family matters intervened so it was put on hold for later in the year. Then the rogue trader matter blew up at work so that was the next 19 months of my life taken care of.
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
A few years ago, I did the Libya/Egypt trip, following the route of the Desert Rats/8th Army during the second Battle of El-Alamein.
Was weird a few years later, seeing the places I visited being at the centre of Civil Wars.
One of the less well known facts about Libya is that it has fantastic Roman remains. Leptis Magna must be the largest and most complete Roman city anywhere. They also have amazing beaches. Would be a tourist paradise if only they could get their act together.
I have a beautiful book of photos of Leptis Magna. It is the closest I will get to the place until they do get their act together.
My regret is that I did not travel to Syria in early 2011 when I had the chance. A friend went and loved it. I planned to go that summer but family matters intervened so it was put on hold for later in the year. Then the rogue trader matter blew up at work so that was the next 19 months of my life taken care of.
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
A few years ago, I did the Libya/Egypt trip, following the route of the Desert Rats/8th Army during the second Battle of El-Alamein.
Was weird a few years later, seeing the places I visited being at the centre of Civil Wars.
One of the less well known facts about Libya is that it has fantastic Roman remains. Leptis Magna must be the largest and most complete Roman city anywhere. They also have amazing beaches. Would be a tourist paradise if only they could get their act together.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
The biggest issue is a lack of school systems/learning ethos or - more commonly - systems that are not backed up by managers. They want to brush 'behaviour' under the carpet to massage the stats, and put pressure on staff to put up and shut up.
It's difficult to exclude - again, the figures - and almost impossible to expel.
Attendance is another big factor - schools are now penalised on this, so a lot of resources are spent ensuring that (generally challenging) poor attenders are in school. (I was a 'determined' truant when at school and the school did nothing about it - my parents didn't know until some way down the line - but ignoring it isn't an option now; I'm not saying you should, but it's another factor in the mix).
Some parents are a pain but most appreciate it when you try to instil discipline. I've had parents asking to have their kids moved to my classes as I've got a 'rep' (according to one student).
I'm in a tough school but I don't have problems with behaviour. I only saw a phone in my classroom 3 times last term, and they weren't being used - but it still meant a detention.
The kids like it, learning comes first, my 'results' are good (though of course you may only have them for a year out of five so it's not as simple as that).
My biggest battle is with management and I stand firm, using my own systems and refusing to use theirs. This causes a hell of a lot of stress - as does trying to get managers to do their job properly - but I'm stubborn and stick it out because I value what I do and feel I owe it to the kids. The 'new, dynamic' head spent two years trying to get rid of me for 'challenging authority' until he gave up.
Many good teachers give up the battle - which can be Orwellian and, tbh, absurd - because they don't have the energy anymore.
There are bad teachers, yes - but a lot of comment on 'teachers' being the main issue in schools is, frankly, dim.
When?
My school in the 70s the management were pro-discipline and it was the new teachers coming out of the teacher training colleges that were actively anti-discipline and actively undermined it.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
Yes, it's a hell of a mess, but the sacking had been on the cards for a couple of months. If OGS does come, and there are strong rumours tonight that a deal is on, hopefully Tan will keep his nose out. Tan is a laughing stock, not just in Cardiff but everywhere.
I see Charlie Adam was so upset at not being able to crock Bale when playing Spurs this season, he instead assaulted Paulinho just a few mins after Adam came on to the pitch as a sub - Paulinho (just back from 3 game ban) is reported to be out for a month now...
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
Bitchy! lol
I should be nicer to Ave It, he bought me several drinks at Dirty Dicks.
Mahmood Ahmed (Birmingham Labour chairman) Manchester Cllr Joyce Keller Trevor Mort (chairman of Conservative Party Disciplinary Committee) Sutton Cllr Ruth Shaw Marion Dowding (former Deputy Chairman of West Oxfordshire Conservatives) Carole Hyde (former chairman of Conservative Party Disciplinary Committee) Renfrewshire Cllr Eileen Mccartin Candida Piercy from LD Federal Executive Committee Jackie Stacey & Eric Wilson from Labour Party staff Prudence Winton from West Worcestershire Conservative Association June Denby from Selby Conservative Association Emma Pidding (National Conservative Convention)
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
Bitchy! lol
I should be nicer to Ave It, he bought me several drinks at Dirty Dicks.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
Bitchy! lol
I should be nicer to Ave It, he bought me several drinks at Dirty Dicks.
Alun Thomas (Neath Council Leader) Charles Brown (Carrickfergus Cllr) David Burbage (Windsor Council Leader) Jonathan Clarke (Rushcliffe Council Leader) Kathrine Cutts (Nottinghamshire Cllr) Mark Hawthorne (Gloucestershire Cllr) Andrew Lewer (Derbyshire Cllr) Cllr Marianne Overton (Linconshire) Kent Cllr John Simmonds Geoffrey Williams (Basildon Cllr) William Pennington (Salford Cllr) Paul Carter (Kent Council Leader) Ann Lucas (Coventry Council Leader) Gordon Nicolson (Eden Council Leader)
The biggest issue is a lack of school systems/learning ethos or - more commonly - systems that are not backed up by managers. They want to brush 'behaviour' under the carpet to massage the stats, and put pressure on staff to put up and shut up.
It's difficult to exclude - again, the figures - and almost impossible to expel.
Attendance is another big factor - schools are now penalised on this, so a lot of resources are spent ensuring that (generally challenging) poor attenders are in school. (I was a 'determined' truant when at school and the school did nothing about it - my parents didn't know until some way down the line - but ignoring it isn't an option now; I'm not saying you should, but it's another factor in the mix).
Some parents are a pain but most appreciate it when you try to instil discipline. I've had parents asking to have their kids moved to my classes as I've got a 'rep' (according to one student).
I'm in a tough school but I don't have problems with behaviour. I only saw a phone in my classroom 3 times last term, and they weren't being used - but it still meant a detention.
The kids like it, learning comes first, my 'results' are good (though of course you may only have them for a year out of five so it's not as simple as that).
My biggest battle is with management and I stand firm, using my own systems and refusing to use theirs. This causes a hell of a lot of stress - as does trying to get managers to do their job properly - but I'm stubborn and stick it out because I value what I do and feel I owe it to the kids. The 'new, dynamic' head spent two years trying to get rid of me for 'challenging authority' until he gave up.
Many good teachers give up the battle - which can be Orwellian and, tbh, absurd - because they don't have the energy anymore.
There are bad teachers, yes - but a lot of comment on 'teachers' being the main issue in schools is, frankly, dim.
When?
My school in the 70s the management were pro-discipline and it was the new teachers coming out of the teacher training colleges that were actively anti-discipline and actively undermined it.
My experience having worked at a quango in the education field is that my ex-teacher colleagues were pretty shit at management. Mainly because they try to treat adults as children, which of course is what their experience is. So I am not surprised if management within schools is generally poor.
OGS now rumoured to be in advanced talks with CCFC, Odds on now and shortened last few hours. My earlier post about some Turkish guy, Vural total rubbish. Cost me a few quid.
Hello valleyboy. Any views on tan?
HA HA HA
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
I am fine ty hope you are too! Watford form team 5 points out of 9!
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
See what happens when a Watford manager manages a decent club.
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
Bitchy! lol
I should be nicer to Ave It, he bought me several drinks at Dirty Dicks.
Comments
500 hundred will turn into a thousand,then a thousand will turn into two thousand(we know how it works and you can call me a heartless bast**d,I couldn't give a sh*t),so we take a few hundred out of 7 to 9 million refugee's,WTF will that do to making the 7 to 9 million refugee's life better that are left behind,only relax your guilt trip that Britain owes the rest of the word something.
The coalition are right and these people should be looked after nearer to they country,by millions of pounds of aid that Britain as already given.
Sad but probably true. Also the only country where political betting would work.
I'd also add that it is perfectly reasonable to expect a general warming trend to include localised periods of colder/wetter/drier weather in some areas. For instance, if one sympton of climate change is that the jetstreams are misbehaving, then some areas will e.g. get cold polar air even as others get warmer. Therefore the existence of some periods of cold weather is not - a priori - an argument against global warming, or more precisely anthropogenic climate change.
Miss Cyclefree, a short time ago the BBC had a few documentaries about the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately it clashed with something else so I could only see a few snippets, but that prompted me to check Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge, to find out why it declined from the days of besieging Vienna and conquering Byzantium.
It was, according to ye olde Wikipedia, due to the rising influence of a particularly intolerant brand of Islam which saw Christianity and Christians as potential threats rather than allies. Christian kids had better education in the latter empire but became increasingly excluded from public life, diminishing the human resources of the empire. In addition, the influence of clerics reduced attempts to reform and modernise to catch up with Christian Europe through means such as an academy for artillery.
You'd have to be a bit bonkers to waste your £300 backing Yes down to short odds, as you'd get much better value for your cash laying No. At the time of writing £352 is available at 1.25, with a further £371 available at 1.26 and £188 at 1.27
Most senior schools are so bad that they are almost beyond help. Overall our secondary education is shamefully bad and needs a complete overhaul. After 30 years of mismanagement I sometimes wonder if it is beyond help in its current form.
I will not engage with you any further on this issue on the internet, but that offer is still open.
If the West wants to act as a moral policeman,they should also help to ease some of the burden of the refugees.
Ofcourse it is the West` action in Libya which emboldened the Free Syrian Army to take up arms in the first place leading to this crisis.And Libya is also becoming another basket-case.
As well as the other matters we've discussed, rebuilding Syria will be immensely difficult because of the medieval barbarity that the pro- and anti-Assad forces have perpetrated. Even when the war finally ends, it's hard to see how anything resembling real peace can come about.
Russia on one side and Saudi Arabia on the other side of the Syrian war,these 2 countries have more of a case of easing the burden of the refugee's.
Personally, I blame the Romans.
(*) Foolow is a hop-skip and a jump away from Eyam, the famous plague village, and quite near the aptly-named Silly Dale.
If you put up £50 at EVS on Betfair it appears as £50 to back one side, and £50 to lay the other
The £352 to lay at 1.25 is the £88 to back at 5
Here we have a judge who tried to give preferential anonymity to Muslim criminals:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10542176/Muslim-lawyers-on-trial-granted-anonymity-for-cultural-reasons.html
Neither story is going to damage UKIP among its potential supporters.
Iraq is a bloodbath,Libya is well on it`s way there and Syria wouldn`t have arisen against Assad if Gaddhafi wasn`t overthrown by Western bombing.
At school one of the books we did was A Parcel of Patterns.
And so it goes on.....
Markit published their Retail Sales PMI for the Eurozone this morning and the news is bleak.
Retail Sales in Germany, the only country surveyed to show any growth, disappointed with a slowing rate of growth. However, this may be a temporary blip as recent PMIs for German Manufacturing and Services are more positive.
France suffered most of all with a sharp decline to a seven month low.
Italy fared better, with a sharp increase, but from a very low base. Still it recorded its best figures for nearly three years. Andrea must have received some expensive Christmas presents.
Here are the figures. As with most Markit indices 50 represents flat growth. We await UK figures for December Retail Sales. So far little comment in the press about how the year has ended.
However at 400 km/h, the U-turn would take an HS2 train around 7.5 minutes. Which is probably a lot quicker than it would take a politician to write a press release or read Twitter.
I'll get my coat ...
The rise of an intolerant form of Islam may be part of the explanation but it can't be the only one. Spain became very Catholic, almost more Catholic than the Pope and hugely hostile to diverse influences but still went on to create a great Empire and be a power, for a time at least, whereas the Ottoman Empire was in a long state of weakness and decline. Intolerance alone cannot be the sole explanation though it will explain much.
Is there some "rule of 1500" here?
A sort of murderous 14 century long family quarrel over who should inherit the sherry glasses, if you will......
Bloomberg reports:
The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose, reaching an all-time closing high and headed toward its biggest annual gain since 1996, as Walt Disney Co. led a rally in consumer shares.
"We're the biggest and best, so why should we implement your new ideas?"
IMHO this had a small part to play in the fall of the British Empire - with hindsight it was visible back as far as the 1851 Great Exhibition, with innovations like Colt's guns and McCormick's reaping machine that were widely admired in the world, but (from what I have read) were disparaged in Britain.
Read the Koran. Available in paperback from all good book shops.
Complex and interesting etc.
But it's clear pretty quickly that the Tony-Blair style interpreters of Islam - "It's a message of peace" - with nothing to add - are dishonest or self-deluding.
'Labour have already said we should take some refugees.They cite 500 refugees which is a ridiculously low number given the severity of the problem.'
Nope,it's time for Saudi Arabia & the rest of the GCC states to step in,they have enormous wealth and can easily offer a safe haven for the refugees.
Blair - for all his history degree from Oxford - was one of the most ignorant and unthinking people ever to become PM.
The Ottoman Emperors did try and import ideas from the West to sustain them. But that doesn't explain why their own societies, despite being very diverse, got stuck into a sort of intellectual stasis from which, by and large, the Islamic world has yet to emerge.
it went not so well.
He looked very alone at Mandelas funeral. It was hard to feel sorry.
It is astonishing though how completely erased from Labour histrory he has become.
(Actually I tend to think that the best lawyers are those who have studied something else for their main degree. It makes them more rounded lawyers and better able to understand the context in which law operates and what it is intended to do. Too many lawyers I encounter have a one-silo mind, only able to look at an issue in one way, not in my view, the mark of a really educated person.)
PS - Obviously this excludes all PB lawyers who studied law at university and are obviously men and women of great learning and distinction and civility. (Is that enough grovelling, TSE and Antifrank?)
You utter utter utter [moderated] OSR
I could go off you young man.
QPR = [moderated]
And by the time I got up for air, the whole region was in flames.
Moral: go to places when you want to not "later". I still hope to do a tour of the Middle Eastern part of the Roman Empire: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, then Turkey, Sicily (again) and up north through the heel of Italy. But for the moment it's a dream.
IMHO the best barristers are the ones who have done other things than the law.
Solicitors themselves, well that's a different story.
Was weird a few years later, seeing the places I visited being at the centre of Civil Wars.
I of course kept up my 100% wrong predictions by saying Spurs would ship a lot of goals in that game and betting on Stoke as value hedge at 15-2. Best £50 loss since I didn't lose £500 to Computerash on the pre-Xmas You Gov...
Time for me to lump on the Red Devils as another hedge using those 'winnings'.
Nelson - Australia versus England styley......
I'm from what is termed an ethnic minority, but my education and general life experiences is similar to everyone else's.
http://danymihalache.wordpress.com/george-orwell-collected-essays-journalism-and-letters-my-country-right-or-left/george-orwell-the-collected-essays-journalism-and-letters-2-review-mein-kampf-by-adolf-hitler-unabridged-translation/
That said, I'm not sure Tim Sherwood is the right answer for Spurs.
Slow trading on the Stock Exchange today, but some early pointers? A reaction to the disappointing Eurozone Retail Sales PMIs or some early info from the UK supermarkets?
Sainsbury lost 1.9 percent to 371.1 pence as a gauge of retail stocks dropped the most of the 19 industry groups on the Stoxx Europe 600 Index, a benchmark for the region. Marks & Spencer Group Plc (MKS) declined 1.7 percent to 442.7 pence. William Morrison Supermarkets Plc fell 1.5 percent to 263.7 pence.
IMO it would be something of a shame to import more god botherers as our own die whatever the particular flavour. Regrettable, but probably, possibly not worth letting them die for their delusions.
Just let's not kid ourselves. The scales on the cost benefit of religion are now so heavily weighted a big guy in the clouds curing cancer for the whole planet could not redress the balance.
It is I think hard to balance the tension between fitting in and being a team player, on the one hand, and playing to your individual strengths and really being yourself, on the other. I don't think you can ever be really happy at work if you can't be yourself to a more significant extent than is generally allowed.
Hope you are well Ave It and had a good Xmas, despite your footie team in free fall.
My school in the 70s the management were pro-discipline and it was the new teachers coming out of the teacher training colleges that were actively anti-discipline and actively undermined it.
Seriously I hope you stay up but don't think it will happen without Malky
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-years-honours-lists-2014
Kevin Barron MP
James Luff MP
Richard Ottaway MP
Lord Sugar@Lord_Sugar2h
'First Bale and now Paulinho - how many more before they act? 'http://bit.ly/1iq8sTO
Brendan Rodgers and Malky Mackay, top managers when in charge of proper decent clubs.
Mahmood Ahmed (Birmingham Labour chairman)
Manchester Cllr Joyce Keller
Trevor Mort (chairman of Conservative Party Disciplinary Committee)
Sutton Cllr Ruth Shaw
Marion Dowding (former Deputy Chairman of West Oxfordshire Conservatives)
Carole Hyde (former chairman of Conservative Party Disciplinary Committee)
Renfrewshire Cllr Eileen Mccartin
Candida Piercy from LD Federal Executive Committee
Jackie Stacey & Eric Wilson from Labour Party staff
Prudence Winton from West Worcestershire Conservative Association
June Denby from Selby Conservative Association
Emma Pidding (National Conservative Convention)
Alun Thomas (Neath Council Leader)
Charles Brown (Carrickfergus Cllr)
David Burbage (Windsor Council Leader)
Jonathan Clarke (Rushcliffe Council Leader)
Kathrine Cutts (Nottinghamshire Cllr)
Mark Hawthorne (Gloucestershire Cllr)
Andrew Lewer (Derbyshire Cllr)
Cllr Marianne Overton (Linconshire)
Kent Cllr John Simmonds
Geoffrey Williams (Basildon Cllr)
William Pennington (Salford Cllr)
Paul Carter (Kent Council Leader)
Ann Lucas (Coventry Council Leader)
Gordon Nicolson (Eden Council Leader)
CHEERS