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The New Year appeal: Help keep PB going and make it ad-free – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited December 2020

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    The way I read it is that her products that are currently in development to be released from 01.01.2021 can't use the CE mark, but any goods currently released can use this until 01.01.2022. It still seems like exceptionally poor planning to not envisage that the CE mark might not be able to go onto newer products considering that a deal was not certain until recently. If there was no deal the CE mark products already released might not have been able to be sold and I can't see any planning for that eventually either, although granted the full story isn't there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
  • FF43 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    What you are missing, I think, is that the fundamental complaint is about Brexiteers willfully imposing business and livelihood destroying red tape on companies like hers, rather than the fact she only got a couple days notice. But she is right on that point too. There was talk about the UK/EU deal containing conformity agreement. That it didn't only became clear when the EU published the document on the 26th December.
    It goes back to a point I was musing on last night. For individuals and small businesses, the best setup is a set of rules that applies over a big area.

    If the UK has different rules to other places, they might be better attuned to the UK's unique situation. They might better match the overall democratic will of this nation.

    But that's still two sets of rules. So you either try to fulfil both (more complexity and expense) or you give up on one market as more trouble than it's worth.

    Who, exactly, have we taken control back for?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    Personally I think Jess Phillips mixes the passion of the Corbynites with the policies of the Blairites best. 50/1 monster monster!
    Jess would definitely get my vote.

    Sad to say, charisma is a big factor in determining whether a person can become a successful leader these days.

    Johnson, for all his faults, clearly has it; Starmer, sadly, clearly doesn't.

    John Major is the only uncharismatic clear election winner in the past 40 years (I don't count May as a clear election winner).
  • RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited December 2020

    isam said:

    I would say I was a lockdown sceptic in that I abide by most of the rules (wearing a mask in shops, socially distancing, not visiting people) whilst having a nagging suspicion that I am being had over. I dont think I would act any different if Boris had said "There is a nasty disease out there, do what you think best to avoid catching or spreading it" (probably wouldnt wear a mask I suppose).

    But I do think that there is something a bit weird about this



    Red being Covid deaths per week, Amber Weekly deaths above the 5 year average, Blue Weekly deaths above the 5 year average not inc Covid. The current year always has a higher death rate than the 5 year average at this time of year - without Covid we would be way below. So either the restrictions are meaning people arent dying of anything else, or lots of people dying of Covid would have died anyway, and we are double counting to an exten when "981!" people die in a day from it

    Flu deaths will be way down, explains most of it?
    Partially - masks plus social distancing will mean much less flu this year.

    One other morbid factor is that many of the tens of thousands who died earlier this year can't die a second time this winter. Many of those who died earlier this year could have died ten years from now or later - but some of them would have died this winter, but can't die this winter since they're already dead.

    Once Covid is behind us we should see below (pre-Covid) average deaths for a couple of years as people who died from Covid won't now die from whatever would have killed them later on.
    There’s also going to be a lot fewer industrial, traffic and sporting/passtime fatalities this year, as well as grannies not going out in the snow and falling over, and fewer robberies gone wrong.

    Against that, possibly more suicides, and more people dying of treatable diseases but unable to access treatment in a timely manner.

    Does anyone have the stats on homicides in 2020 vs 2019?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    A really shit version of something ‘British’ to celebrate Brexit? Well done that man.
    https://twitter.com/artforlifept2/status/1344557283985010689?s=21

    Wot - no gammon....? 😉
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2020

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    Personally I think Jess Phillips mixes the passion of the Corbynites with the policies of the Blairites best. 50/1 monster monster!
    Jess would definitely get my vote.

    Sad to say, charisma is a big factor in determining whether a person can become a successful leader these days.

    Johnson, for all his faults, clearly has it; Starmer, sadly, clearly doesn't.

    John Major is the only uncharismatic clear election winner in the past 40 years (I don't count May as a clear election winner).
    Yes, completely agree, including the point that it is sad to say

    Jess would contrast so sharply with Johnson, I think it would enthuse Labour inclined voters. I think she lays it on quite thick though, she is pretty middle class but plays up, or down, to a almost chav image
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682
    Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Isn't the nub of this that businesses have been continually told to 'get ready for Brexit' for the past couple of years... but until last week it was impossible to know what 'getting ready' entailed?
  • isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    Personally I think Jess Phillips mixes the passion of the Corbynites with the policies of the Blairites best. 50/1 monster monster!
    Jess would definitely get my vote.

    Sad to say, charisma is a big factor in determining whether a person can become a successful leader these days.

    Johnson, for all his faults, clearly has it; Starmer, sadly, clearly doesn't.

    John Major is the only uncharismatic clear election winner in the past 40 years (I don't count May as a clear election winner).
    John Major was uncharismatic compared to Tony Blair - but (and its before my time) compared to the Welsh Windbag was he really the uncharismatic one?
  • Carnyx said:

    A really shit version of something ‘British’ to celebrate Brexit? Well done that man.
    https://twitter.com/artforlifept2/status/1344557283985010689?s=21

    I find myself wondering how many of the ingredients come, or are significantly likely to come, from or through the EU.
    The reasonable answer to that would probably be no. Eggs, sausage and potatoes are all likely to be UK sourced, particularly at this time of year for the spuds. Baked beans come from the Kit Green factory in Wigan. The beans themselves are shipped from North America.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    Yet another very stupid post given that it has been very widely known that Johnson senior, along with the other Johnson sibling, were very anti-Brexit. I would no more condemn the PM for the views of his father and brother than I would Corbyn for the views of his anti-vaxxer brother.
    Remember we were constantly told we should never infer anything about John Bercow's views from his wifes rantings....now the same people who said this, use Boris Snr behaviour to bash the PM.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
  • Mr. Pointer, indeed.

    It's why wasting time on a needless election, and triggering Article 50 prior to deciding what we actually wanted, was stupid.

    It's also why Article 50 was set up: so that leaving countries then face a very tight time scale and a lot of pressure can be exerted by the EU to their advantage.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Yet another very stupid post given that it has been very widely known that Johnson senior, along with the other Johnson sibling, were very anti-Brexit. I would no more condemn the PM for the views of his father and brother than I would Corbyn for the views of his anti-vaxxer brother.
    Remember we were constantly told we should never infer anything about John Bercow's views from his wifes rantings....now the same people who said this, use Boris Snr behaviour to bash the PM.
    Who's 'we' and who was doing the telling?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    Personally I think Jess Phillips mixes the passion of the Corbynites with the policies of the Blairites best. 50/1 monster monster!
    Jess would definitely get my vote.

    Sad to say, charisma is a big factor in determining whether a person can become a successful leader these days.

    Johnson, for all his faults, clearly has it; Starmer, sadly, clearly doesn't.

    John Major is the only uncharismatic clear election winner in the past 40 years (I don't count May as a clear election winner).
    John Major was uncharismatic compared to Tony Blair - but (and its before my time) compared to the Welsh Windbag was he really the uncharismatic one?
    Fair point - both had a bit of a charisma bypass imo.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    What you are missing, I think, is that the fundamental complaint is about Brexiteers willfully imposing business and livelihood destroying red tape on companies like hers, rather than the fact she only got a couple days notice. But she is right on that point too. There was talk about the UK/EU deal containing conformity agreement. That it didn't only became clear when the EU published the document on the 26th December.
    It goes back to a point I was musing on last night. For individuals and small businesses, the best setup is a set of rules that applies over a big area.

    If the UK has different rules to other places, they might be better attuned to the UK's unique situation. They might better match the overall democratic will of this nation.

    But that's still two sets of rules. So you either try to fulfil both (more complexity and expense) or you give up on one market as more trouble than it's worth.

    Who, exactly, have we taken control back for?
    Indeed. That's the point she's making. She can't make the numbers add up for exports to the EU and NI , so she will have to manage on what she can sell in mainland Britain. She is not happy with her business being cut down for completely unnecessary reasons.
  • Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
    On paper, she is well qualified...but her take on everything appears to be spend more yesterday.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If vets decide to charge £100 for copying information already recorded in the pet passport and vaccination record onto a separate form, that would be pretty outrageous.
    I'm sure this wasn't at the instigation of the UK. But if the French etc wish to put unnecessary petty barriers in the way of UK visitors boosting their economy this Summer, that's their choice. In practice, I don't think that this sort of petty restriction will last very long. Either there will be minor changes to the treaty by mutual agreement to mutual benefit, or a string of bilateral arrangements between the UK and those countries that don't want to play silly games.
    Hopefully so.

    Although I suspect the £100 was the Daily Mail box writer's estimate. Clearly they've let a junior remainer slip through their recruitment process.

    The current system - where the EU pet passport my dog already has will be recognised in the UK, after leaving the EU, but not in the EU itself, is a mess, and a better solution could have been found.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    Carnyx said:

    A really shit version of something ‘British’ to celebrate Brexit? Well done that man.
    https://twitter.com/artforlifept2/status/1344557283985010689?s=21

    I find myself wondering how many of the ingredients come, or are significantly likely to come, from or through the EU.
    The reasonable answer to that would probably be no. Eggs, sausage and potatoes are all likely to be UK sourced, particularly at this time of year for the spuds. Baked beans come from the Kit Green factory in Wigan. The beans themselves are shipped from North America.
    Thanks - that might well be the rationale behind the selection (which is still a shite one).

    Though some sausage pork is apparently from the EU originally:

    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/07/how-much-pork-is-in-your-sausage/

    And the tomatoes in the bean sauce of course are - I assume - unlikely to be grown in the UK (too expensive, so better sold for salad?). Though the sugar in the sauce could quite likely be ex UK beets.
  • Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
    On paper, she is well qualified...but her take on everything appears to be spend more yesterday.
    Isn't that a pre-requisite to be a Labour Shadow Chancellor?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
    How many chickens have you got? :wink:

    In fairness, post this one again at the end of next week.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    Personally I think Jess Phillips mixes the passion of the Corbynites with the policies of the Blairites best. 50/1 monster monster!
    Jess would definitely get my vote.

    Sad to say, charisma is a big factor in determining whether a person can become a successful leader these days.

    Johnson, for all his faults, clearly has it; Starmer, sadly, clearly doesn't.

    John Major is the only uncharismatic clear election winner in the past 40 years (I don't count May as a clear election winner).
    John Major was uncharismatic compared to Tony Blair - but (and its before my time) compared to the Welsh Windbag was he really the uncharismatic one?
    According to IPSOS MORI's, "Personality" ratings, he was at the time of the 92 Election
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
    On paper, she is well qualified...but her take on everything appears to be spend more yesterday.
    Her only other possible reason for being given the job was, by comparison, to make Skyr look like Captain Exciting....
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If vets decide to charge £100 for copying information already recorded in the pet passport and vaccination record onto a separate form, that would be pretty outrageous.
    I'm sure this wasn't at the instigation of the UK. But if the French etc wish to put unnecessary petty barriers in the way of UK visitors boosting their economy this Summer, that's their choice. In practice, I don't think that this sort of petty restriction will last very long. Either there will be minor changes to the treaty by mutual agreement to mutual benefit, or a string of bilateral arrangements between the UK and those countries that don't want to play silly games.
    Hopefully so.

    Although I suspect the £100 was the Daily Mail box writer's estimate. Clearly they've let a junior remainer slip through their recruitment process.

    The current system - where the EU pet passport my dog already has will be recognised in the UK, after leaving the EU, but not in the EU itself, is a mess, and a better solution could have been found.
    You know the editor of the daily mail is a remainer.....trying to careful walk the tightrope of not pissing off the readership too much, while hating everything Boris / Brexit. Throughout covid, they have been one of the most critical media outlets of the government.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    I don't disagree necessarily, although he does have two favourables to his neme, he is neither Jeremy Corbyn, nor Boris Johnson.
  • Thanks Mike and Robert and all the rest of the Mods. Great site which regularly infuriates but is also indispensable.

    It's my impression, Richard, that the quality of the posts and posters is as high as it has ever been.

    The politics varies of course. You and I have been posting long enough to have seen the composition change - someties very conservative, sometimes leftish, sometimes rather heavy with yellow peril, sometimes nationalist and so on. Regardless of political color it has remained one of the liveliest and fairest forums around, and just in terms of sheer quality and information sharing it is very hard to beat.

    Happy New to yourself, and everyone - even those who cannot quite maintain the Olympian standards of Richard and myself. ;)
    "sometimes very conservative, sometimes leftish, sometimes rather heavy with yellow peril, sometimes nationalist and so on"

    Hell I think I have ticked most of those boxes this year alone!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682

    Mr. Pointer, indeed.

    It's why wasting time on a needless election, and triggering Article 50 prior to deciding what we actually wanted, was stupid.

    It's also why Article 50 was set up: so that leaving countries then face a very tight time scale and a lot of pressure can be exerted by the EU to their advantage.

    Wasn't Article 50 a British creation?
  • RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
    How many chickens have you got? :wink:

    In fairness, post this one again at the end of next week.
    Fair enough.

    I've nailed my colours to my mast - and so has RP. Only one of us can be right, the other must be wrong since there was no overlap in what we were saying. I hope for all our sake that I'm right and he's wrong, but if it is a catastrophe then it may not cheer him up but he will be entitled to say "I told you so".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
    On paper, she is well qualified...but her take on everything appears to be spend more yesterday.
    Isn't that a pre-requisite to be a Labour Shadow Chancellor?
    You might hope there was a bit more subtlety, but you don't even need to listen to her response. Dishy Rishi could announce 100% furlough scheme and she would stand up and say it needs to be 110%.
  • isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Similar for many opposition leaders - reckon if you plotted the same data on same scale as almost all LOTO in recent years, you'd see a similar behaviour except for Blair and Cameron.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    If vets decide to charge £100 for copying information already recorded in the pet passport and vaccination record onto a separate form, that would be pretty outrageous.
    I'm sure this wasn't at the instigation of the UK. But if the French etc wish to put unnecessary petty barriers in the way of UK visitors boosting their economy this Summer, that's their choice. In practice, I don't think that this sort of petty restriction will last very long. Either there will be minor changes to the treaty by mutual agreement to mutual benefit, or a string of bilateral arrangements between the UK and those countries that don't want to play silly games.
    Hopefully so.

    Although I suspect the £100 was the Daily Mail box writer's estimate. Clearly they've let a junior remainer slip through their recruitment process.

    The current system - where the EU pet passport my dog already has will be recognised in the UK, after leaving the EU, but not in the EU itself, is a mess, and a better solution could have been found.
    You know the editor of the daily mail is a remainer.....trying to careful walk the tightrope of not pissing off the readership too much, while hating everything Boris / Brexit. Throughout covid, they have been one of the most critical media outlets of the government.
    Indeed the Mail on Sunday under his editorship backed Remain.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Yes, I have never been a Starmer fan, and think it very likely that he will be challenged, possibly even this year.

    If Labour just support government policy, what is the point? And he is fabulously dull and wooden. My money is on Rayner, but I have always had a soft spot for the flame haired firebrand!
    His choice of Shadow Chancellor was very poor too.
    On paper, she is well qualified...but her take on everything appears to be spend more yesterday.
    It's almost like she was expecting to be trotting out "Tory cuts"...."Tory austerity" - then faced a Tory Chancellor who's spent more than even John McDonnell could have ever called for.

    Comedy is all about timing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,682

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
    How many chickens have you got? :wink:

    In fairness, post this one again at the end of next week.
    Fair enough.

    I've nailed my colours to my mast - and so has RP. Only one of us can be right, the other must be wrong since there was no overlap in what we were saying. I hope for all our sake that I'm right and he's wrong, but if it is a catastrophe then it may not cheer him up but he will be entitled to say "I told you so".
    My fear was always No Deal (which I believe you took a 'so be it' attitude to). Had there been no deal, the distruption would have been massive.

    With this deal, I expect it will be manageable.
  • isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Similar for many opposition leaders - reckon if you plotted the same data on same scale as almost all LOTO in recent years, you'd see a similar behaviour except for Blair and Cameron.
    And except for Corbyn (he never got the initial bounce).
  • Sean_F said:

    The case numbers are *possibly* showing a move in the right direction.
    It will take a week, give or take, for Christmas and the other bank holidays, to come out of the system. Expect next Tuesday to be a grim day, for example.
  • Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    What you are missing, I think, is that the fundamental complaint is about Brexiteers willfully imposing business and livelihood destroying red tape on companies like hers, rather than the fact she only got a couple days notice. But she is right on that point too. There was talk about the UK/EU deal containing conformity agreement. That it didn't only became clear when the EU published the document on the 26th December.
    It goes back to a point I was musing on last night. For individuals and small businesses, the best setup is a set of rules that applies over a big area.

    If the UK has different rules to other places, they might be better attuned to the UK's unique situation. They might better match the overall democratic will of this nation.

    But that's still two sets of rules. So you either try to fulfil both (more complexity and expense) or you give up on one market as more trouble than it's worth.

    Who, exactly, have we taken control back for?
    Indeed. That's the point she's making. She can't make the numbers add up for exports to the EU and NI , so she will have to manage on what she can sell in mainland Britain. She is not happy with her business being cut down for completely unnecessary reasons.
    I should add this is just one data point, but the reason why Gavin Esler was right to post it, is that it demonstrates that marginal policy changes can be critical. This woman might still have had a viable export business, despite the general Brexit crap, if the deal had been better.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Interesting. He lost me yesterday. I'd mistaken his ice cool for being a man of political principle. Chasing the working class racist vote showed exactly the opposite.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    You have to give them credit for comedy, the socialists literally have a Champagne level ticket... interesting mix of characters, two of which are currently suspended by the official labour party.

    https://twitter.com/Standup4Labour/status/1343622225715408898?s=19
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Similar for many opposition leaders - reckon if you plotted the same data on same scale as almost all LOTO in recent years, you'd see a similar behaviour except for Blair and Cameron.
    Maybe, but that's the point isn't it? They don't win
  • RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
    How many chickens have you got? :wink:

    In fairness, post this one again at the end of next week.
    Fair enough.

    I've nailed my colours to my mast - and so has RP. Only one of us can be right, the other must be wrong since there was no overlap in what we were saying. I hope for all our sake that I'm right and he's wrong, but if it is a catastrophe then it may not cheer him up but he will be entitled to say "I told you so".
    My fear was always No Deal (which I believe you took a 'so be it' attitude to). Had there been no deal, the distruption would have been massive.

    With this deal, I expect it will be manageable.
    Indeed. That is why I asked RP. He was saying that leaving the customs union was the catastrophe for the border and the border would collapse even with a deal.

    And yes my attitude to No Deal was always a bit of a paradox, if that is the right word to use: I always thought we should be prepared for No Deal if the EU didn't bend, but I also thought that if we were prepared for No Deal then the EU would bend so there would be no reason to implement No Deal. 'Si vis pacem, para bellum'

    So it turned out to be. We did prepare (as well as could be expected) for No Deal and the EU seemed to take seriously especially post-IMB the idea that we were willing to countenance No Deal - and so they moved quite considerably meaning it was no longer required to do it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Yet he can't get elected as a MP. The moment you make him a peer, however, there is pressure to make him a Cabinet minister, no?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    stodge said:


    That looks like the kind of breakfast in a greasy spoon in London I haven't seen for a while. "The full English" can look a lot better than that.

    At last, a subject on which I can speak with authority :)

    That isn't anywhere near a "Full English" - it's a "Third English" at best. From the cafe in the Barking Road yesterday, my takeaway order was:

    2 fried eggs
    1 slice fried bread ("fried slice" as we call it)
    2 Sausages
    Mushrooms
    Bubble & Squeak

    For those who enjoy bacon, black or white pudding I would welcome you at the table any time. Wanting your eggs scrambled rather than fried is decadent but acceptable. Baked beans or chips with breakfast are an abomination and the very work of the Devil himself.

    Obviously, those who prefer a well smoked kipper or proper kedgeree have my respect - it's not standard fare in East Ham but I've sampled them elsewhere and they make a more than pleasant change and those who enjoy them are more than welcome to them especially if they have the advantage of being able to source the proper ingredients.

    The strange thing is I don't miss the commute, the office, the colleagues or even the family that much - what I've missed is sitting in the cafe with the Racing Post with the band of socially distanced antisocial old gits.

    Baked beans are perfectly acceptable if done right, as long as not in excess. Cooked with the addition of some pomegranate molasses and extra tomato purée, they are tastier than ketchup in providing a hit of astringency to cut through the grease.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:


    That looks like the kind of breakfast in a greasy spoon in London I haven't seen for a while. "The full English" can look a lot better than that.

    At last, a subject on which I can speak with authority :)

    That isn't anywhere near a "Full English" - it's a "Third English" at best. From the cafe in the Barking Road yesterday, my takeaway order was:

    2 fried eggs
    1 slice fried bread ("fried slice" as we call it)
    2 Sausages
    Mushrooms
    Bubble & Squeak

    For those who enjoy bacon, black or white pudding I would welcome you at the table any time. Wanting your eggs scrambled rather than fried is decadent but acceptable. Baked beans or chips with breakfast are an abomination and the very work of the Devil himself.

    Obviously, those who prefer a well smoked kipper or proper kedgeree have my respect - it's not standard fare in East Ham but I've sampled them elsewhere and they make a more than pleasant change and those who enjoy them are more than welcome to them especially if they have the advantage of being able to source the proper ingredients.

    The strange thing is I don't miss the commute, the office, the colleagues or even the family that much - what I've missed is sitting in the cafe with the Racing Post with the band of socially distanced antisocial old gits.

    Baked beans are perfectly acceptable if done right, as long as not in excess. Cooked with the addition of some pomegranate molasses and extra tomato purée, they are tastier than ketchup in providing a hit of astringency to cut through the grease.
    Baked beans and brown sauce - a marriage made in heaven.....
  • New Zealand are officially out of 2020.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    Sean_F said:

    The case numbers are *possibly* showing a move in the right direction.
    Nope. Entirely due to Christmas Day being the last day in the 7 day average of cases by specimen date at the moment, when people just didn't go for tests. The 26th and 27th already have 50% higher numbers than 7 days earlier.

    Also, even away from Christmas Day test numbers are down significantly, presumably due to people just sitting out mild symptoms while they're off work and school, whereas otherwise they might have got tested.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    stodge said:

    The strange thing is I don't miss the commute, the office, the colleagues or even the family that much - what I've missed is sitting in the cafe with the Racing Post with the band of socially distanced antisocial old gits.

    One thing I miss about going to the office is the subsidised canteen that served a proper cooked breakfast every day
  • Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Yet he can't get elected as a MP. The moment you make him a peer, however, there is pressure to make him a Cabinet minister, no?
    I would not think so (though I don't subscribe to the idea he should be made a peer either). I would assume he would not sit as a Tory Peer so there would be no expectation he would be given a ministerial post.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    You've always got the Express if you want balance
    Paper media is so 'Provenciale'
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Thanks Mike and Robert and all the rest of the Mods. Great site which regularly infuriates but is also indispensable.

    It's my impression, Richard, that the quality of the posts and posters is as high as it has ever been.

    The politics varies of course. You and I have been posting long enough to have seen the composition change - someties very conservative, sometimes leftish, sometimes rather heavy with yellow peril, sometimes nationalist and so on. Regardless of political color it has remained one of the liveliest and fairest forums around, and just in terms of sheer quality and information sharing it is very hard to beat.

    Happy New to yourself, and everyone - even those who cannot quite maintain the Olympian standards of Richard and myself. ;)
    "sometimes very conservative, sometimes leftish, sometimes rather heavy with yellow peril, sometimes nationalist and so on"

    Hell I think I have ticked most of those boxes this year alone!
    Your ability to laugh at yourself is very endearing - genuinely!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Strange that you think peerages are rewards for effectiveness. The highest peer in the realm is the Duke of Edinburgh. He married the Queen.
  • isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Similar for many opposition leaders - reckon if you plotted the same data on same scale as almost all LOTO in recent years, you'd see a similar behaviour except for Blair and Cameron.
    And except for Corbyn (he never got the initial bounce).
    iirc, he started off at about the same level as Foot, Hague and Duncan-Smith.

    oh.

    right.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Gaussian said:

    Sandpit said:

    One suggestion: there has to be a way to toggle on/off the Twitter embed, at times it’s made the site unusable this year on mobile devices. I now have it blocked completely.

    For me they only show up as links. Playing with Firefox's settings to work out why, it appears it's the "Strict" tracking protection level that does it.
    Thanks for the tip - that works for me.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
    To be fair he is just being consistent - a former Euro-MP and a passionate European and environmentalist who happens to be the dad of the PM. People aren't responsible for the opinions of their children or their parents.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?

    BoZo's unique talent...
  • RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    Speaking about facts what do you think about this expert saying the border will operate OK from tomorrow?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483434

    When should we expect your foreseen catastrophic failure of the border because of not being in the Customs Union. I'm wondering at what point I should expect to apologise to you and admit I was wrong for expecting (like this expert) that the border may have some disruptions but will overall end up OK. 🤔
    How many chickens have you got? :wink:

    In fairness, post this one again at the end of next week.
    Fair enough.

    I've nailed my colours to my mast - and so has RP. Only one of us can be right, the other must be wrong since there was no overlap in what we were saying. I hope for all our sake that I'm right and he's wrong, but if it is a catastrophe then it may not cheer him up but he will be entitled to say "I told you so".
    My fear was always No Deal (which I believe you took a 'so be it' attitude to). Had there been no deal, the distruption would have been massive.

    With this deal, I expect it will be manageable.
    Indeed. That is why I asked RP. He was saying that leaving the customs union was the catastrophe for the border and the border would collapse even with a deal.

    And yes my attitude to No Deal was always a bit of a paradox, if that is the right word to use: I always thought we should be prepared for No Deal if the EU didn't bend, but I also thought that if we were prepared for No Deal then the EU would bend so there would be no reason to implement No Deal. 'Si vis pacem, para bellum'

    So it turned out to be. We did prepare (as well as could be expected) for No Deal and the EU seemed to take seriously especially post-IMB the idea that we were willing to countenance No Deal - and so they moved quite considerably meaning it was no longer required to do it.
    You quoted Norway / Sweden as the future example did you not? Their busiest crossing which takes an average of 20 minutes to check customs paperwork based on 1,300 crossings per day? So we have to check customs and standards paperwork based on 9-10,000 crossings per day in each direction?

    There is a reason we have built the truck park facilities. because we are about to need them.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Plus one. I share a similar view on politics to you felix and I've contributed a few threads which have been accepted and published.
    I simply referred to the balance as I see it. I have no desire to write headers myself, although the number of responses to my really quite balanced remarks suggests some nerves were hit.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
    I think the issue that triggered her thread was that UK products with the CE mark will not be grandfathered for sale in the EU. She will have to go through the conformity assessment again, apparently to a revised standard, which will presumably involve product changes. This plus all the other Brexit red tape makes her export business unviable.

    In addition she has an immediate big expense to get UKCA compliance, so she can carry on selling to the domestic market, minus Northern Ireland.
  • Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
    Yes but another quick google shows that the guidance you are referring to has been in place since at least September and would have been unaffected by whatever deal we did with the EU because it refers specifically to goods for the UK market.

    Plus the Government guidance page states:

    "The UKCA marking can be used from 1 January 2021. However, to allow businesses time to adjust to the new requirements, you will still be able to use the CE marking until 1 January 2022 in most cases."

    So the idea this has suddenly dropped on her since the deal was agreed is still rubbish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    New Zealand are officially out of 2020.

    Lucky bastards....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2020
    Roger said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Yes, if you mention that, upon scrutiny, the polling for a Leader shows they might not catch the public's imagination, its worth a thread...

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1338449337232273411?s=20
    Interesting. He lost me yesterday. I'd mistaken his ice cool for being a man of political principle. Chasing the working class racist vote showed exactly the opposite.
    I wouldn't be that hard on him, he tried for four and a half years to overturn or ignore the result of the referendum, you can't fault his effort. But he is a politician, the leader of a major party, so what he says or does has consequences, he cant just post on here calling everyone names
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533



    I assume though that you have never been and advocate of a private insurance based health system versus the NHS?

    No, but having experienced the Swiss system I've always conceded that in normal circs it works very well. I had a "third class" insurance through my job (which means that you agree to share a ward with up to 3 others - no other difference). I once broke my arm in a ski resort. The hospital room and food were infinitely better than the tiny hotel room I'd been staying in, with a magnificent view of the Alps.

    I concede that the latter advantage would be difficult to reproduce in Surrey.
  • Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Strange that you think peerages are rewards for effectiveness. The highest peer in the realm is the Duke of Edinburgh. He married the Queen.
    To be fair, given that his job would have been to make sure she had some offspring to carry on the family firm, I would suggest that he has been pretty effective at that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    isam said:

    he cant just post on here calling everyone names

    Well, he could...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:


    That looks like the kind of breakfast in a greasy spoon in London I haven't seen for a while. "The full English" can look a lot better than that.

    At last, a subject on which I can speak with authority :)

    That isn't anywhere near a "Full English" - it's a "Third English" at best. From the cafe in the Barking Road yesterday, my takeaway order was:

    2 fried eggs
    1 slice fried bread ("fried slice" as we call it)
    2 Sausages
    Mushrooms
    Bubble & Squeak

    For those who enjoy bacon, black or white pudding I would welcome you at the table any time. Wanting your eggs scrambled rather than fried is decadent but acceptable. Baked beans or chips with breakfast are an abomination and the very work of the Devil himself.

    Obviously, those who prefer a well smoked kipper or proper kedgeree have my respect - it's not standard fare in East Ham but I've sampled them elsewhere and they make a more than pleasant change and those who enjoy them are more than welcome to them especially if they have the advantage of being able to source the proper ingredients.

    The strange thing is I don't miss the commute, the office, the colleagues or even the family that much - what I've missed is sitting in the cafe with the Racing Post with the band of socially distanced antisocial old gits.

    Baked beans are perfectly acceptable if done right, as long as not in excess. Cooked with the addition of some pomegranate molasses and extra tomato purée, they are tastier than ketchup in providing a hit of astringency to cut through the grease.
    Kedgeree with a real kipper if a bit tough if you don't like the occasional whisker-bone.

    What about pickled herring?

    I think that my basest secret (that I will admit to) this year has been to rediscover a product from my youth called "London Grill" (or the own brand version), which is a tin of beans including probably fake emulsified offal-tubes.

    It's not quite up there with alpahetti-spaghetti, but knocking on the door.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    I think a much more realistic timeline for everybody..

    If Covid-19 vaccination picks up, US could return to normal life by early fall 2021, Fauci says

    If the US is able to “diligently vaccinate” people in 2021, the nation could return to normal life by early fall, Dr. Anthony Fauci said in an interview with California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday.

    https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-12-30-20/h_98f4e9d4b2b5a5c15ff8a0c887292e96?utm_source=fbCNN&utm_content=2020-12-31T06:01:06&utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&fbclid=IwAR13BvNWTX8TMjnChEmRSSMoQdwqTAvDvDBXjo8HLhX-HDp0nw9z_z0IfwA
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Don't see how he can get a French passport without losing his British one - you certainloy cannot do it here in Spain. I wonder if he means residency.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:


    That looks like the kind of breakfast in a greasy spoon in London I haven't seen for a while. "The full English" can look a lot better than that.

    At last, a subject on which I can speak with authority :)

    That isn't anywhere near a "Full English" - it's a "Third English" at best. From the cafe in the Barking Road yesterday, my takeaway order was:

    2 fried eggs
    1 slice fried bread ("fried slice" as we call it)
    2 Sausages
    Mushrooms
    Bubble & Squeak

    For those who enjoy bacon, black or white pudding I would welcome you at the table any time. Wanting your eggs scrambled rather than fried is decadent but acceptable. Baked beans or chips with breakfast are an abomination and the very work of the Devil himself.

    Obviously, those who prefer a well smoked kipper or proper kedgeree have my respect - it's not standard fare in East Ham but I've sampled them elsewhere and they make a more than pleasant change and those who enjoy them are more than welcome to them especially if they have the advantage of being able to source the proper ingredients.

    The strange thing is I don't miss the commute, the office, the colleagues or even the family that much - what I've missed is sitting in the cafe with the Racing Post with the band of socially distanced antisocial old gits.

    Baked beans are perfectly acceptable if done right, as long as not in excess. Cooked with the addition of some pomegranate molasses and extra tomato purée, they are tastier than ketchup in providing a hit of astringency to cut through the grease.
    Baked beans and brown sauce - a marriage made in heaven.....
    A decent way of achieving a similar effect, but a bit less tasty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    But Farage didn't deliver Brexit. Couldn't have delivered Brexit. Too many would not have voted for a Brexit where he was the figurehead. Myself amongst them.

    The person that made Brexit viable was not Farage, but Boris Johnson.
  • Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
    Yes but another quick google shows that the guidance you are referring to has been in place since at least September and would have been unaffected by whatever deal we did with the EU because it refers specifically to goods for the UK market.

    Plus the Government guidance page states:

    "The UKCA marking can be used from 1 January 2021. However, to allow businesses time to adjust to the new requirements, you will still be able to use the CE marking until 1 January 2022 in most cases."

    So the idea this has suddenly dropped on her since the deal was agreed is still rubbish.
    Fine. So instead we only have the 4 months notice to apply 3 sets of standards and markings instead of the current 1.

    I still can't find anyone with a rational argument as to why this cost and red tape burden is better for these businesses than what we have today.
  • Well I have just ordered something from NI....should I expect a delay?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited December 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
    To be fair he is just being consistent - a former Euro-MP and a passionate European and environmentalist who happens to be the dad of the PM. People aren't responsible for the opinions of their children or their parents.
    I'm pretty sure Stanley wouldn't be such a ubiquitous sight and sound on our airwaves if he wasn't BJ's dad, so swings and roundabouts. Still, he seems less in demand lately, perhaps they've realised amplifying a self indulgent, over entitled flouter of Covid rules isn't a good look.
  • felix said:

    Don't see how he can get a French passport without losing his British one - you certainloy cannot do it here in Spain. I wonder if he means residency.
    Not sure why you say that. According to everything I have read Spain along with the UK and most other EU countries allows Dual Citizenship and with it the right to more than one passport.
  • As our divergence from EU standards will bring about tariffs and quotas I suspect that business will resolve the standards issue by sticking CE UKCA(GB) UKCA(NI) on everything. That way they only have triple the costs of certification to deal with as opposed to triple the cost and triple the skus cost
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Well I have just ordered something from NI....should I expect a delay?

    Depends if a timer is fitted...
  • Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    But Farage didn't deliver Brexit. Couldn't have delivered Brexit. Too many would not have voted for a Brexit where he was the figurehead. Myself amongst them.

    The person that made Brexit viable was not Farage, but Boris Johnson.
    Its chicken and egg, without Farage Bozos path to the top wouldnt have been Brexit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Donated - I find the headers relentlessly one-sided but the site is overall way better than most other media options for information and political gossip. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

    I have written a few. Mike and TSE welcome headers as contributions as well financial ones, particularly when there is a betting angle.
    Plus one. I share a similar view on politics to you felix and I've contributed a few threads which have been accepted and published.
    I simply referred to the balance as I see it. I have no desire to write headers myself, although the number of responses to my really quite balanced remarks suggests some nerves were hit.
    I think it’s more that your complaint is not a new one, and that most of those who make it (with honourable exceptions) have similarly expressed no desire to write headers.
    The consensus has always been that it’s a bit ungenerous to complain about headers which are provided, with considerable effort, completely free.

    Take issue with their arguments by all means - FWIW I’d welcome some with an opposite slant to critique.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
    To be fair he is just being consistent - a former Euro-MP and a passionate European and environmentalist who happens to be the dad of the PM. People aren't responsible for the opinions of their children or their parents.
    I'm pretty sure Stanley wouldn't be such a ubiquitous sight and sound on our airwaves if he wasn't BJ's dad, so swings and roundabouts. Still, he seems less in demand lately, perhaps they've realised amplifying a self indulgent, over entitled flouter of Covid rules isn't a good look.
    Or just maybe for all the things that are, its not Boris's fault his dad is a complete arse.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Well I have just ordered something from NI....should I expect a delay?

    Yes, its New Year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited December 2020
    DavidL said:

    Well I have just ordered something from NI....should I expect a delay?

    Yes, its New Year.
    They have told me will be with me in 2 days.....I am not sure they are telling the truth.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    DavidL said:

    This site gives me way more pleasure and distraction than, say, my Netflix's account. I regard it as a superior version of a daily newspaper with a lot more jokes chucked in. Excellent value. And many thanks to the thread header writers, especially when they are being infuriating!

    Happy New Year to all.

    The quality of writing is really good.
    There are some very good tips too I think.

    My issue is how much time I waste arguing below the line. I'm trying to get better at not engaging, not venting, just reading the interesting links and opinions... but it's hard for sure!
  • Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    But Farage didn't deliver Brexit. Couldn't have delivered Brexit. Too many would not have voted for a Brexit where he was the figurehead. Myself amongst them.

    The person that made Brexit viable was not Farage, but Boris Johnson.
    Its chicken and egg, without Farage Bozos path to the top wouldnt have been Brexit.
    At last the paradox is solved! We can be pretty sure that BJ is the (refrigerated) chicken.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    edited December 2020

    Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
    Yes but another quick google shows that the guidance you are referring to has been in place since at least September and would have been unaffected by whatever deal we did with the EU because it refers specifically to goods for the UK market.

    Plus the Government guidance page states:

    "The UKCA marking can be used from 1 January 2021. However, to allow businesses time to adjust to the new requirements, you will still be able to use the CE marking until 1 January 2022 in most cases."

    So the idea this has suddenly dropped on her since the deal was agreed is still rubbish.
    Fine. So instead we only have the 4 months notice to apply 3 sets of standards and markings instead of the current 1.

    I still can't find anyone with a rational argument as to why this cost and red tape burden is better for these businesses than what we have today.
    Because we don't decide policy solely for the benefit of the 6% of businesses that actually do trade with the EU

    Edit: and only a tiny fraction of those 6% will have to make immediate changes. Everyone else gets a 12 month changeover and existing marked stock does not have to be changed.
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
    To be fair he is just being consistent - a former Euro-MP and a passionate European and environmentalist who happens to be the dad of the PM. People aren't responsible for the opinions of their children or their parents.
    I'm pretty sure Stanley wouldn't be such a ubiquitous sight and sound on our airwaves if he wasn't BJ's dad, so swings and roundabouts. Still, he seems less in demand lately, perhaps they've realised amplifying a self indulgent, over entitled flouter of Covid rules isn't a good look.
    Or just maybe for all the things that are, its not Boris's fault his dad is a complete arse.
    Perhaps more Stanley's fault that his son is a complete arse though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    But Farage didn't deliver Brexit. Couldn't have delivered Brexit. Too many would not have voted for a Brexit where he was the figurehead. Myself amongst them.

    The person that made Brexit viable was not Farage, but Boris Johnson.
    Its chicken and egg, without Farage Bozos path to the top wouldnt have been Brexit.
    I don't think that he would have had much difficulty in coming up with something else. Despite a deliberate policy of not appearing so he is a very clever chap and seriously good at this politics stuff.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited December 2020



    Yes but another quick google shows that the guidance you are referring to has been in place since at least September and would have been unaffected by whatever deal we did with the EU because it refers specifically to goods for the UK market.

    Plus the Government guidance page states:

    "The UKCA marking can be used from 1 January 2021. However, to allow businesses time to adjust to the new requirements, you will still be able to use the CE marking until 1 January 2022 in most cases."

    So the idea this has suddenly dropped on her since the deal was agreed is still rubbish.

    Fine. So instead we only have the 4 months notice to apply 3 sets of standards and markings instead of the current 1.

    I still can't find anyone with a rational argument as to why this cost and red tape burden is better for these businesses than what we have today.
    I don't think it's better than what we have today. I think the current deal in the EU was the best deal. Where I do have a problem is with the most passionate anti-Brexit campaigners like Gavin Esler (who would be the first to call out a Brexiteer myth like bendy bananas) eagerly retweeting anyone criticising the deal without checking the details.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Strange that you think peerages are rewards for effectiveness. The highest peer in the realm is the Duke of Edinburgh. He married the Queen.
    He fathered an heir and a spare though.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Carnyx said:

    RH1992 said:

    RH1992 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Sorry, I appreciate that there are barriers going up and that some of them haven't become clear until recently which will cause a lot of confusion, but the CE mark no longer being valid has been known about for months, and yet this business person has become aware with 24 hours notice? I might be missing something obvious, but this just seems to be wilful ignorance rather than Brexit.
    It's so ridiculous that I doubt the tweet to be honest.
    Gavin Esler has no right to bang on about pro Brexit media peddling lies when he readily retweets stuff like that.

    In fact, from 11pm he is essentially one of the founders of the group of new extreme pro-European reverse UKIP style fringe who want us to go full fat in to the EU incl Euro, along with Adonis, Grayling and Maugham.
    Absolutely. Bloody remainers complaining about the facts. The should Shut Up and enjoy the benefits of Brexit.

    I read the tweet and thought "that isn't right, she still has a year". Which was the advice before the deal was signed. Amazingly that isn't now the case. Some products will have to have new markings as of tomorrow! Another one of the fabulous benefits of this omnishambles.
    You mean, up to say last week the regs gave her a year? And now suddenly they don't, withj zero notice? Just so I understand this correctly, please ...
    Yes. I've had to read up on all of the guidance regarding regulations and so on for work. It was clear that we had 12 months overlap between the old CE mark and the new various UK(GB) / UK(NI) marks. So I read her tweet and thought she had it wrong. Then a quick Google and I started laughing.

    Starting tomorrow if your product:
    * is for the market in Great Britain
    * is covered by legislation which requires the UKCA marking
    * requires mandatory third-party conformity assessment
    * conformity assessment has been carried out by a UK conformity assessment body and you haven’t transferred your conformity assessment files from your UK body to an EU recognised body before 1 January 2021
    Then you have to use the new UKCA marking. Tomorrow. Happily they attach an image file.

    However did we manage to bollox up the details like this?
    Yes but another quick google shows that the guidance you are referring to has been in place since at least September and would have been unaffected by whatever deal we did with the EU because it refers specifically to goods for the UK market.

    Plus the Government guidance page states:

    "The UKCA marking can be used from 1 January 2021. However, to allow businesses time to adjust to the new requirements, you will still be able to use the CE marking until 1 January 2022 in most cases."

    So the idea this has suddenly dropped on her since the deal was agreed is still rubbish.
    Fine. So instead we only have the 4 months notice to apply 3 sets of standards and markings instead of the current 1.

    I still can't find anyone with a rational argument as to why this cost and red tape burden is better for these businesses than what we have today.
    Yes but that is just you still whining about the effects of something decided in a vote in 2016. I agree with you but the vote was done, Remain f****d up the campaign, the young Erasmousians couldn't be a***d to vote and we are where we are. You were right - I was right ffs. We lost.Time to move on.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Presumably loyalty to the big family project (Brexit BJ) prevented him from saying that he was also applying for a passport to all of the rich and varied countries of the EU.
    To be fair he is just being consistent - a former Euro-MP and a passionate European and environmentalist who happens to be the dad of the PM. People aren't responsible for the opinions of their children or their parents.
    I'm pretty sure Stanley wouldn't be such a ubiquitous sight and sound on our airwaves if he wasn't BJ's dad, so swings and roundabouts. Still, he seems less in demand lately, perhaps they've realised amplifying a self indulgent, over entitled flouter of Covid rules isn't a good look.
    Or just maybe for all the things that are, its not Boris's fault his dad is a complete arse.
    Perhaps more Stanley's fault that his son is a complete arse though.
    Great minds think alike. And @Theuniondivvie and @Scott_xP as well, apparently.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Roger said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    Strange that you think peerages are rewards for effectiveness. The highest peer in the realm is the Duke of Edinburgh. He married the Queen.
    He fathered an heir and a spare though.
    And a connoisseur of pizza restaurants in Slough.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    DavidL said:

    he is a very clever chap and seriously good at this politics stuff.

    He's not though.

    He is a genius at self promotion, but where is the Garden Bridge? Where is his island? How many people have ever, will ever use the cable car?

    As noted on this thread, Brexit was not his achievement alone.

    And the worst Covid response in Europe does not speak well of his abilities.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    edited December 2020
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I'm told that Farage, in his trader days, used to make new members of staff sing Jerusalem or some such 'patriotic' ditty.

    Obviously peerages are an obscenity and anybody who has one should get the Qaddafi treatment from a baying mob but...

    If Farage doesn't get one then the whole thing is meaningless as well as iniquitous. He is, by some distance, the most effective British politician of the past two decades.
    But Farage didn't deliver Brexit. Couldn't have delivered Brexit. Too many would not have voted for a Brexit where he was the figurehead. Myself amongst them.

    The person that made Brexit viable was not Farage, but Boris Johnson.
    Its chicken and egg, without Farage Bozos path to the top wouldnt have been Brexit.
    I don't think that he would have had much difficulty in coming up with something else. Despite a deliberate policy of not appearing so he is a very clever chap and seriously good at this politics stuff.
    Good at half of it, campaigning. Shit at half of it, governing. But yes, he had ambitions for the top job before Brexit was an issue and would have eventually been a strong contender at some point regardless.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    isam said:

    I would say I was a lockdown sceptic in that I abide by most of the rules (wearing a mask in shops, socially distancing, not visiting people) whilst having a nagging suspicion that I am being had over. I dont think I would act any different if Boris had said "There is a nasty disease out there, do what you think best to avoid catching or spreading it" (probably wouldnt wear a mask I suppose).

    But I do think that there is something a bit weird about this



    Red being Covid deaths per week, Amber Weekly deaths above the 5 year average, Blue Weekly deaths above the 5 year average not inc Covid. The current year always has a higher death rate than the 5 year average at this time of year - without Covid we would be way below. So either the restrictions are meaning people arent dying of anything else, or lots of people dying of Covid would have died anyway, and we are double counting to an exten when "981!" people die in a day from it

    Flu deaths will be way down, explains most of it?
    Yes, the nurse I was talking to about the vaccine study the other day remarked on how few cases of flu there are this year. She put it down to flu being prevented by the same measures implemented to reduce the spread of Covid.
    My personal suspicion is that some people are being labelled as dying of covid rather than with covid.
    The numbers really don’t work for that.
    Those who have died within 28 days of a positive test are dying at a rate far, far greater than the background death rate.
    So if they’re dying of something else but with covid, what is the something else?
    It would be a massive coincidence that everyone who dies of cause x, y, and z just happened to be in the very small minority who tested positive for covid in the 28 days prior.
    The ONS also separate out “deaths with...” and “deaths of...”, anyway.

    More likely that people are avoiding the standard causes of death this year as well - but covid is shifting what would have been a big decrease in response to the restrictions to an even bigger increase, even with very stringent restrictions
This discussion has been closed.