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The Trump denial saga: 8 Republicans elected to the House last month backed move which would have co

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  • DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    Twitter confirms suspected arseholes and reveals whole vistas of new arseholes, the existence of which one was unaware.

    On your later post, I'd be surprised if twitter enabled Trump's presidency other than providing rallying cries for the day's/week's/month's activities. Afaics FB was more important for his particular version of winning hearts and minds.
  • Mr. L, ha.

    I've written most of the post-race ramble (unlike Sakhir it wasn't a struggle to remember the exciting bits) which contains the line: "It was at this point that the one interesting thing permitted at each race in Abu Dhabi occurred..."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.
    s://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    h//twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    I don't doubt the polling, but cannot see it being the same as in 3 years time for the first Primary. He will be old news, and old by then. There are few second chances in American political lives, Biden being a notable exception.

    The difficulty is finding another with Trump's appeal in rural areas and charisma. That is a rare finding.
    Nixon and Stevenson are 2 that come to mind.
  • Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    One does have to question how so many of these conversations have been 'constructive and useful' when they don't resolve anything.

    This one resolved at least one thing.

    BoZo is still scared of the headbangers but he intends to disappointment them

    Otherwise he would have crashed the talks with Churchillian bluster (the dog, not the man) and been hailed a hero (for up to 2 weeks more)
    The EU have moved it seems on both the ratchet and reciprocity so why not continue talking? Why crash the talks given movement from the other side?

    I still think the odds of a deal are 52-48. Just because it has to be.
  • DavidL said:

    F1: well, that race was tedious.

    But my tip came off. Need to check the numbers but I think both the Perez and McLaren best of the rest bets came off too. May be contingent on the penalty investigation into Sainz for pit lane naughtiness.

    Is there any truth in the rumour that the highlights show has been cancelled?

    Edit, maybe they could reshow highlights of the Manchester derby instead.
    The Manchester derby had Australian style highlights didn't it?

    Am I doing that right?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    You have just exposed the limitations of Google translate for me there Matthias (unless you really meant "Very well. That gives an asterisk.")
    It means "Very good. You get a star for that", the sort of thing you might say to a primary school child.
    Your beef is with my German-teacher's Ghost, presumably of Christmas Past.

    Wishing you luck :smile: .
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    I'm not sure people are ready yet to listen to anything Corbyn has to say. Everything wrong with Brexit -which is everything-could have been avoided if his decision making hadn't been so dismal. We might have even have avoided johnson. If we never heard from him again it would be welcome
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Trump Sr may only be at 35%, but Trump family members get to 48%. (And who in their right minds would want Trump Jr as President.)
  • HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    And easy for Trump to claim it is impossible to have a fair trial
    I think both UK and US law is clear that there is no such thing as "impossible to have a fair trial" as this would mean people who are sufficiently notorious would effectively be above the law. The position is that strong direction is required by the judge, but you cannot argue that it is impossible for you to get a fair trial.

    This comes up now and then with very famous people (e.g. OJ Simpson) and people who are convicted of particularly awful crimes (with the outpouring of media stories about their past and so on), then have it overturned on appeal but face re-trial (or face trial on further charges).
    I think here the problem is that it will be very hard to find a jury that will convict no matter the evidence as US trials have to have a unanimous verdict.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Trump Sr may only be at 35%, but Trump family members get to 48%. (And who in their right minds would want Trump Jr as President.)
    There are more than 74m Americans clearly not entirely in their right minds and in any other year that would have been enough.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    edited December 2020
    F1: post-race ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/12/abu-dhabi-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    Edited extra bit: think this year, from a blog-bets perspective, has been my most profitable.

    In real terms, 2016 was better due to the 251 on Verstappen.
  • DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    One use...

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Roger said:

    I'm not sure people are ready yet to listen to anything Corbyn has to say. Everything wrong with Brexit -which is everything-could have been avoided if his decision making hadn't been so dismal. We might have even have avoided johnson. If we never heard from him again it would be welcome
    Is it about him thinking he has something to say that people will listen to or is it that the people behind the figurehead think it will provide a nice steady income for them so they don't need to actually do something productive.

    Yes I am mr Cynical and no I am not doubting Corbyn thinks it will do good.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Surely the Betfair market settles tomorrow when the EC registers the votes of the States? I mean, what possible reason could there be not to?

    Time zones? I've not checked when everything takes place but if it is late afternoon or evening then it would not surprise me if Betfair does not settle till Tuesday.

    Technically, it is still possible for Congress to impose further delays on or before 6th January but Betfair should have settled by then.
    I'm sure I covered that yesterday - it's possible (but unlikely) for Congress and the Senate to reject the result

    https://twitter.com/marshallmanson/status/1337677901911773184

    https://twitter.com/marshallmanson/status/1337677906991079424

    https://twitter.com/marshallmanson/status/1337677912217022464
    In 2000 multiple Dem Congressional Reps lodged an objection but no Senate Dem co-signed,
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    johnt said:

    I wonder how realistic it is to think Trump will be a candidate in 2024.

    Once he is out of the WH I would expect his impact and influence to fade. But he has made a career out of division and maybe he can keep it going for another four years.

    Trump has a couple of big problems once he's out the White House:

    1. He's not getting any younger.
    2. There will be no shortage of lawsuits over the next few years
    3. Ambitious Republicans will want to take over the mantle of Trump-ism. Will Trump be prepared to hand over to someone who shares his beliefs? Or is he self centered enough to try and belittle and destroy anyone who he sees as competition?

    My guess is that the Republicans Party is likely to be in semi open war over the next two years, which may result in them losing Senate seats in 2022.

    If that were to happen, I think the enthusiasm for getting beat with DJT in 2024 would be limited. But who the hell knows? DJT's great threat is to run against any Republican who beats him in the primaries.

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    How will you feel if one of the Trump family runs in four years?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.
    s://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    h//twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    I don't doubt the polling, but cannot see it being the same as in 3 years time for the first Primary. He will be old news, and old by then. There are few second chances in American political lives, Biden being a notable exception.

    The difficulty is finding another with Trump's appeal in rural areas and charisma. That is a rare finding.
    The question for 2024 is
    1) Does Trump get chucked in the slammer?
    2) Does Trump keep himself in the lime light between Inauguration and the opening of Primary season?
    3) Do the GOP receive a kicking at the 2022 mid terms as instead of being a referendum on Biden it turns into 2018 redux (Trump not on the ballot but on Dem voters mind) but with a much more favourable Dem Senate map?

    Trump Loooooves how much money can be funnelled to him by his campaigning. He is not going to want to have that spigot turned off.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    Twitter confirms suspected arseholes and reveals whole vistas of new arseholes, the existence of which one was unaware.

    On your later post, I'd be surprised if twitter enabled Trump's presidency other than providing rallying cries for the day's/week's/month's activities. Afaics FB was more important for his particular version of winning hearts and minds.
    FB can go too.
  • Roger said:

    I'm not sure people are ready yet to listen to anything Corbyn has to say. Everything wrong with Brexit -which is everything-could have been avoided if his decision making hadn't been so dismal. We might have even have avoided johnson. If we never heard from him again it would be welcome
    Indeed. I am hoping the historians will be much clearer on the level of blame that Corbyn should shoulder for the Brexit vote than current commentators and journalists are.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    rcs1000 said:

    Will Trump be prepared to hand over to someone who shares his beliefs?

    Like BoZo, does he believe in anything except himself?
  • Roger said:

    I'm not sure people are ready yet to listen to anything Corbyn has to say. Everything wrong with Brexit -which is everything-could have been avoided if his decision making hadn't been so dismal. We might have even have avoided johnson. If we never heard from him again it would be welcome
    The election result last year was at least an anti-Corbyn one as it was a pro-Brexit: indeed if David Miliband had still been LOTO I would have voted the other way.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    Well, I'm glad about that - it is good you feel more positive.

    That said, the world isn't as you portray it. Two people can walk down precisely the same road, at precisely the same time, and one can notice paint peeling, litter, and rain, and one can notice dutch gables, flowers and trees. They have a completely different experience, and the bottom line is we are free to choose which we have.
  • DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    One use...

    Very good.

    image
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.

  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    Twitter confirms suspected arseholes and reveals whole vistas of new arseholes, the existence of which one was unaware.

    On your later post, I'd be surprised if twitter enabled Trump's presidency other than providing rallying cries for the day's/week's/month's activities. Afaics FB was more important for his particular version of winning hearts and minds.
    FB can go too.
    Then where would people put photos of their kids?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    And easy for Trump to claim it is impossible to have a fair trial
    In fairness, you have to say it would hardly be possible to give him a fair trial in New York, such is the animosity towards him.

    A certain amount of patience is in order here. A lot of stuff is likely to come out in the years ahead. Even on current evidence I should say there is a prima facie case for a charge of treason. Not sure any pardon is going to get him off that unless it is specifically mentioned, which in itself would probably be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

    Then there's the attack on his businesses and personal assets. The world he finds on leaving the White House will be very different to what it was when he enetered it. He may still be able to gather a congregation of deranged QAnoners and the like but in places of power and influence few will want to be associated with him.

    Nor will it be much easier for his family and close associates. Pardons extend only as far the USA's water's edge. They will need to be careful about taking foreign trips.

    Might be wrong about this, but I think most of us have more reason than Trump to look forward to 2021.
    I expect that if Pence has not pardoned Trump, then President Biden will do so in order to avoid embarrassment to the United States, and that the pardon will be extended to include the states' investigations. It would do America no good, and, to be cynical, it would not help Trump's opponents if he is acquited on a hung jury.
    If I were Biden I'd want something in return from Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    And easy for Trump to claim it is impossible to have a fair trial
    In fairness, you have to say it would hardly be possible to give him a fair trial in New York, such is the animosity towards him.

    A certain amount of patience is in order here. A lot of stuff is likely to come out in the years ahead. Even on current evidence I should say there is a prima facie case for a charge of treason. Not sure any pardon is going to get him off that unless it is specifically mentioned, which in itself would probably be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

    Then there's the attack on his businesses and personal assets. The world he finds on leaving the White House will be very different to what it was when he enetered it. He may still be able to gather a congregation of deranged QAnoners and the like but in places of power and influence few will want to be associated with him.

    Nor will it be much easier for his family and close associates. Pardons extend only as far the USA's water's edge. They will need to be careful about taking foreign trips.

    Might be wrong about this, but I think most of us have more reason than Trump to look forward to 2021.
    I expect that if Pence has not pardoned Trump, then President Biden will do so in order to avoid embarrassment to the United States, and that the pardon will be extended to include the states' investigations. It would do America no good, and, to be cynical, it would not help Trump's opponents if he is acquited on a hung jury.
    A federal pardon has no effect on the states. You would have to get Trump pardoned in all the states he is being prosecuted (or rather will be prosecuted) in.

    There is a queue round the block of DAs dreaming of being the one who gets the first conviction against Donald Trump - that will launch their Democratic political ambitions, and no mistake....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If that Sunday Times story id accurate then Sunak is a psychopath.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    edited December 2020
    Mr. Alistair, psychopaths can make excellent leaders (there's an intriguing theory that most psychological disorders are actually beneficial on a species-wide basis).

    What's the suggestion?

    Edited extra bit: never mind, comment below answers it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    My takeaway from that article was that someone has been seriously briefing against Sunak.

  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Anyway, back to the Irish being enablers of the Holocaust.

    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1337864454403452928?s=20

    I suggested nuking Herne Bay from space earlier. If that is not possible can I nuke Twitter and all of its servers from space instead? I cannot think of one benefit it has accrued to humanity. Not one. Even the idea that it helped organise protests accross the Middle East has been comprehensively debunked.
    Twitter confirms suspected arseholes and reveals whole vistas of new arseholes, the existence of which one was unaware.

    On your later post, I'd be surprised if twitter enabled Trump's presidency other than providing rallying cries for the day's/week's/month's activities. Afaics FB was more important for his particular version of winning hearts and minds.
    FB can go too.
    Then where would people put photos of their kids?
    Fridge door.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    if David Miliband had still been LOTO I would have voted the other way.
    I'm afraid David Miliband never was LOTO

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Some quite eccentric posts on here this afternoon. Why anyone in the Uk cares who is President of a country thousands of miles away is beyond me (apart from betting!), much less caring so much you’d let it affect your mental state.

    Get three passions in your life (not politics) is my advice. Doesn’t matter what. Fills your time and helps direct your energy.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.
    s://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    h//twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    I don't doubt the polling, but cannot see it being the same as in 3 years time for the first Primary. He will be old news, and old by then. There are few second chances in American political lives, Biden being a notable exception.

    The difficulty is finding another with Trump's appeal in rural areas and charisma. That is a rare finding.
    The question for 2024 is
    1) Does Trump get chucked in the slammer?
    2) Does Trump keep himself in the lime light between Inauguration and the opening of Primary season?
    3) Do the GOP receive a kicking at the 2022 mid terms as instead of being a referendum on Biden it turns into 2018 redux (Trump not on the ballot but on Dem voters mind) but with a much more favourable Dem Senate map?

    Trump Loooooves how much money can be funnelled to him by his campaigning. He is not going to want to have that spigot turned off.
    Oh yes. Maybe the comedy value in Trump will endure. I kind of hope so. Kind of. It was the one bright spot of the Trump horror show.

    Meant I could wind my American neighbor (sic) up remorselessly.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    This was the Thatchite philosophy and it's still a very real thing and one which cuts society in two. Some are disturbed only by things which affect them and their family and others who don't share this way of seeing the world and can be physically sickened by vile politicians and feel genuine empathy with refugees who they have never met. These are the non Thatcherites and I'd like to think mainly Remainers.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,596

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    Well, I'm glad about that - it is good you feel more positive.

    That said, the world isn't as you portray it. Two people can walk down precisely the same road, at precisely the same time, and one can notice paint peeling, litter, and rain, and one can notice dutch gables, flowers and trees. They have a completely different experience, and the bottom line is we are free to choose which we have.
    That choice implies a substantial degree of privilege, but yes, it is probably true of most on here.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    You speak of the hold Trump has over his Party. I wonder whether it would be more accurate to speak of his hold over his supporters. Of course some of his supporters are political representatives of his Party, but many millions of his supporters have taken the side of his Party only because they have wanted to support Trump. And I imagine that some Republican representatives fear Trump not on account of of fealty to any Party agenda but on account of Trump's well-known personal vindictiveness.
    Meanwhile Boris Johnson has shown the importance of there being an existing Party that will back you up in what you want to do. He had to purge many of his Party’s MPs in the last Parliament in order to get Brexit done in the manner that he and those on the extreme right of his Party favoured.
    It can seem as if the Party system, especially in nations where there are only ever two parties really in play, suits a would-be autocrat very well.
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    And easy for Trump to claim it is impossible to have a fair trial
    In fairness, you have to say it would hardly be possible to give him a fair trial in New York, such is the animosity towards him.

    A certain amount of patience is in order here. A lot of stuff is likely to come out in the years ahead. Even on current evidence I should say there is a prima facie case for a charge of treason. Not sure any pardon is going to get him off that unless it is specifically mentioned, which in itself would probably be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

    Then there's the attack on his businesses and personal assets. The world he finds on leaving the White House will be very different to what it was when he enetered it. He may still be able to gather a congregation of deranged QAnoners and the like but in places of power and influence few will want to be associated with him.

    Nor will it be much easier for his family and close associates. Pardons extend only as far the USA's water's edge. They will need to be careful about taking foreign trips.

    Might be wrong about this, but I think most of us have more reason than Trump to look forward to 2021.
    I expect that if Pence has not pardoned Trump, then President Biden will do so in order to avoid embarrassment to the United States, and that the pardon will be extended to include the states' investigations. It would do America no good, and, to be cynical, it would not help Trump's opponents if he is acquited on a hung jury.
    If I were Biden I'd want something in return from Trump.
    I'd want an admission of guilt or at the very least the concession that there was no proof of any widespread election fraud. He wouldn't get either though as I think Trump believes whatever makes him look best must be true.
    Remember that he said that 306 EVs was a landslide, and he always claimed that he won the popular vote in 2016 despite all evidence to the contrary. That should have been a red-flag as to how this one was going to go.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    Well, I'm glad about that - it is good you feel more positive.

    That said, the world isn't as you portray it. Two people can walk down precisely the same road, at precisely the same time, and one can notice paint peeling, litter, and rain, and one can notice dutch gables, flowers and trees. They have a completely different experience, and the bottom line is we are free to choose which we have.
    It's exactly as I portray it. This is my world and everyone else lives in it. This is true for each and every living person.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    DougSeal said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    My takeaway from that article was that someone has been seriously briefing against Sunak.

    If there’s any truth to it at all (and it chimes with reports he prevented an earlier lockdown that could have held infections to a far lower level giving us far more leeway right now), then they bloody well should be briefing against him.
  • alednam said:

    if David Miliband had still been LOTO I would have voted the other way.
    I'm afraid David Miliband never was LOTO

    It was a very poor attempt at a joke. I'm not surprised no one got it; after all I'm used to my subtle jokes and clever references going right over the head of those I'm talking to...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    And easy for Trump to claim it is impossible to have a fair trial
    In fairness, you have to say it would hardly be possible to give him a fair trial in New York, such is the animosity towards him.

    A certain amount of patience is in order here. A lot of stuff is likely to come out in the years ahead. Even on current evidence I should say there is a prima facie case for a charge of treason. Not sure any pardon is going to get him off that unless it is specifically mentioned, which in itself would probably be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

    Then there's the attack on his businesses and personal assets. The world he finds on leaving the White House will be very different to what it was when he enetered it. He may still be able to gather a congregation of deranged QAnoners and the like but in places of power and influence few will want to be associated with him.

    Nor will it be much easier for his family and close associates. Pardons extend only as far the USA's water's edge. They will need to be careful about taking foreign trips.

    Might be wrong about this, but I think most of us have more reason than Trump to look forward to 2021.
    I expect that if Pence has not pardoned Trump, then President Biden will do so in order to avoid embarrassment to the United States, and that the pardon will be extended to include the states' investigations. It would do America no good, and, to be cynical, it would not help Trump's opponents if he is acquited on a hung jury.
    The president cannot pardon state crimes, only federal ones - https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
    To be honest I don't quite understand how Heneghan doesn't come in for more stick given how much bollocks he's spouted.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480
    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    Well, I'm glad about that - it is good you feel more positive.

    That said, the world isn't as you portray it. Two people can walk down precisely the same road, at precisely the same time, and one can notice paint peeling, litter, and rain, and one can notice dutch gables, flowers and trees. They have a completely different experience, and the bottom line is we are free to choose which we have.
    That choice implies a substantial degree of privilege, but yes, it is probably true of most on here.
    How so?
  • On a Twitter query about improving the Yas Marina circuit, the innovative suggestions include going literally anywhere else, carpet bombing the track, or posting Tusken Raider snipers at strategic locations around the circuit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    edited December 2020
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    DougSeal said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    My takeaway from that article was that someone has been seriously briefing against Sunak.

    If there’s any truth to it at all (and it chimes with reports he prevented an earlier lockdown that could have held infections to a far lower level giving us far more leeway right now), then they bloody well should be briefing against him.
    As someone who is in the Red on Sunak for next leader I heartily agree. However, I fear that "kills people to 'support' the economy" will play very will with many Tory MPs.
  • kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    How bad would it have to before you couldn’t ignore it? If you looked across at the other table to see a parent beating their child and forcing them to have thin gruel, would you still be able to enjoy your steak and chips?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    alednam said:

    if David Miliband had still been LOTO I would have voted the other way.
    I'm afraid David Miliband never was LOTO

    It was a very poor attempt at a joke. I'm not surprised no one got it; after all I'm used to my subtle jokes and clever references going right over the head of those I'm talking to...
    Presumably the satisfaction you get from that drove you into teaching in the first place.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    I live in this world, the only one we have, and Donald Trump as POTUS told me something about it that I found seriously depressing. That he was defeated at the polls and will soon not be POTUS is therefore, for me, a big deal. It will improve my life. That's all I'm saying.
    Well, I'm glad about that - it is good you feel more positive.

    That said, the world isn't as you portray it. Two people can walk down precisely the same road, at precisely the same time, and one can notice paint peeling, litter, and rain, and one can notice dutch gables, flowers and trees. They have a completely different experience, and the bottom line is we are free to choose which we have.
    Big signing for the get lemons, make lemonade team!
  • DavidL said:

    alednam said:

    if David Miliband had still been LOTO I would have voted the other way.
    I'm afraid David Miliband never was LOTO

    It was a very poor attempt at a joke. I'm not surprised no one got it; after all I'm used to my subtle jokes and clever references going right over the head of those I'm talking to...
    Presumably the satisfaction you get from that drove you into teaching in the first place.
    It's more that teaching taught me to get used to it.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
    I am not defending Gupta ... but it seems very likely to me that her position is affected by historical events at the University of Oxford.

    It was because of Gupta's sexual harassment case (which she won) that the epidemiology group around Ferguson/Anderson moved to Imperial College.

    This is the sexual harassment case played out anew on the deadly battlefield of COVID-19.
  • Mr. Alistair, he's got a lay value of 4.1 for next PM on Betfair, if you think that's worth a shot.

    Probably not going to touch that market again until/unless Hunt's odds become hedgeably low.
  • kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    You do have to be a bit careful with German grammar. JFK once announced:
    "Ich bin ein Berliner!" [Literally, I am a (popular type of) German hot-dog.]

    It should have been "Ich bin Berliner" - I am from Berlin.

    I'm sure everyone knew what he meant though, just as I'm sure that in normal everyday German 'Erst' would do just fine for First.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Thanks for the article Mike. Some thoughts.

    Personal feeling is Trump will run again in 2024, primarily because his view will be he allowed himself to be outplayed and wants revenge, plus he sees himself as the comeback king. I don't think he will let the threat of NY investigations stop him as you can drag these cases out for years, and, if the Republicans get the House in 2022 it is almost certain they will launch an investigation into the election, which Trump may feel helps him. Unless ill health gets in the way, he'll run again.

    What may also encourage him is Biden's incoming administration is already facing issues. Several of Biden's picks, particularly Tom Vlasick at Agriculture and Lloyd Austin at Defence, are coming under attack with the Black caucus annoyed Marcia Fudge, who wanted Agriculture, has been picked for HUD, reinforcing the perception it is the "Black" department. What was interesting was Susan Rice appointed to a low ranked position but - crucially - doesn't need approval from the Senate nor an appointments' hearing. That has been noted. And the news on Hunter and James Biden feeds into Trump's narrative that "mainstream media" helped the Democrats by keeping silent on the investigations pre-election.

    I would disagree with the view that many Republicans are only keeping silent because of fear of Trump. There will be a few but there is a genuine realisation that Trump has given the Republicans a path to a potential multi-racial voting bloc anchored in working class / rural America that has eluded many other Republican politicians. There is also a widespread view, and not just from Trumpsters, that the Democrats bent the rules massively in areas like mail in ballots and fraud occurred. I mentioned on this thread pre-election of a figure I know who is prominent in Republican circles, and very much anti-Trump, who said the Democrats would pump through mail-in ballots to the counts until they won. If you had that view pre-election, nothing that has happened since will change your mind. Dominion's seeming unwillingness to launch defamation lawsuits, despite having what should be a very strong case at face value, is also raising eyebrows. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is the view that is taken.

    One final point - there is an advantage, both to the GOP and several contenders, from letting Trump have another shot in 2024. He will only be there for one term so, for younger contenders such as Hawley and Cruz, the smart play is to angle to be his VP pick (Pence is unlikely to run) to inherit the GOP nomination in 2028. Forget the likes of Romney - not only is he is seen as craven (most on here seem to have forgotten grovelling he did back in 2016 to become Trump's Secretary of State) but there is a realisation he would turn off the working class / rural vote. Even if Trump loses badly in 2024, there is an advantage for the GOP because it can then close the chapter on Trump.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    edited December 2020
    Crabbie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    How bad would it have to before you couldn’t ignore it? If you looked across at the other table to see a parent beating their child and forcing them to have thin gruel, would you still be able to enjoy your steak and chips?
    C'mon, parents telling the state the state to eff off by choosing to instill discipline in their child their own way while ensuring the kid gets into the habit of consuming cheap, nutritious food - think positive!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
  • kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    You do have to be a bit careful with German grammar. JFK once announced:
    "Ich bin ein Berliner!" [Literally, I am a (popular type of) German hot-dog.]

    It should have been "Ich bin Berliner" - I am from Berlin.

    I'm sure everyone knew what he meant though, just as I'm sure that in normal everyday German 'Erst' would do just fine for First.
    Berliner is a doughnut/cake

  • https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Going from the excitement of the last race to this is quite a contrast. The most boring race I've watched in ages.

    Happy that McLaren got third ahead of the cheats in pink. If they hadn't done the dirty in Perez I'd be slightly more favourable to them but after that I can't support a team run by a billionaire so his son is able to have something to do on Sundays.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480
    Crabbie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    How bad would it have to before you couldn’t ignore it? If you looked across at the other table to see a parent beating their child and forcing them to have thin gruel, would you still be able to enjoy your steak and chips?
    That question doesn't need to be presented in metaphorical form. We all ignore bad things in the process of enjoying life (and ignore a lot of good things whilst determined to be miserable). I don't think the well-being of others is served best by me feeling bad - indeed I am convinced the opposite is true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Well, it's an aim most people say they want, but I'd expect he'd only want to bring the 'right' people together. Stepping outside his core has never really seemed an interest to him before now.

  • Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
    I am not defending Gupta ... but it seems very likely to me that her position is affected by historical events at the University of Oxford.

    It was because of Gupta's sexual harassment case (which she won) that the epidemiology group around Ferguson/Anderson moved to Imperial College.

    This is the sexual harassment case played out anew on the deadly battlefield of COVID-19.
    It would be incredibly unprofessional, of course, to allow such a dispute to put lives at risk in the country. I think we can all agree on that.

    --AS
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    On a Twitter query about improving the Yas Marina circuit, the innovative suggestions include going literally anywhere else, carpet bombing the track, or posting Tusken Raider snipers at strategic locations around the circuit.

    anything automotive related with Marina in the title was always likely to be a bit shit.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Quite. It's not as if they are censoring it. Good compromise.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,429
    edited December 2020

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    You do have to be a bit careful with German grammar. JFK once announced:
    "Ich bin ein Berliner!" [Literally, I am a (popular type of) German hot-dog.]

    It should have been "Ich bin Berliner" - I am from Berlin.

    I'm sure everyone knew what he meant though, just as I'm sure that in normal everyday German 'Erst' would do just fine for First.
    A Berliner is a doughnut (the type without a hole and usually filled with jam) - just do a Google images search! Yum! While JFK was technically wrong to include the "ein", I doubt that the people listening were much bothered by it, since it was obvious from the context what he was trying to say.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    This was the Thatchite philosophy and it's still a very real thing and one which cuts society in two. Some are disturbed only by things which affect them and their family and others who don't share this way of seeing the world and can be physically sickened by vile politicians and feel genuine empathy with refugees who they have never met. These are the non Thatcherites and I'd like to think mainly Remainers.
    That will cause ructions!

    That said, I can throw in a practical impact. We are fighting a legal case (over money) at the moment and our main opponent is a Trumper. Has all the attributes too - arrogant yet thin skinned, very bigoted, racist, sexist, devious, aggressive, the works. He's been pumped up beyond belief by Trump's success, really on a roll, but now with the "Fall", you can already see the confidence draining away. Might not settle the case, I'm not claiming that, but it will definitely not do any harm.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
    The remedy for that is cleaning out the hottubs at a leisure centre for a few days...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480

    Crabbie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    How bad would it have to before you couldn’t ignore it? If you looked across at the other table to see a parent beating their child and forcing them to have thin gruel, would you still be able to enjoy your steak and chips?
    C'mon, parents telling the state the state to eff off by choosing to instill discipline in their child their own way while ensuring the kid gets into the habit of consuming cheap, nutritious food - think positive!
    LOL, I did chuckle.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    You do have to be a bit careful with German grammar. JFK once announced:
    "Ich bin ein Berliner!" [Literally, I am a (popular type of) German hot-dog.]

    It should have been "Ich bin Berliner" - I am from Berlin.

    I'm sure everyone knew what he meant though, just as I'm sure that in normal everyday German 'Erst' would do just fine for First.
    I was told he was saying he was a doughnut. never bothered to check though.
  • https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Re. an earlier point about twitter being a great revealer of arseholes, Mr Mullen's other tweets certainly help to put him into context.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Not sure about the phrase 'outdated attitudes' as a descriptor since which particular attitudes are the outdated ones (presumably some of the attitudes in the film remain ok), so maybe just saying 'This historical film contains attitudes, language and cultural depictions which some may find offensive' or some other slightly more mealy mouthed sentence, but it's semantics at this point. People can still see it, and those who might get triggered have been warned off, no worries.

    Personally, have been reading some late 19th, early 20th century stuff lately, which can make for the awkward times with some terminology.
  • Mr. Max, aye, was quite the contrast.

    But overall the season has been very good.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Some good news: what you have just experienced or are about to (if you are in the UK) is the earliest nightfall of the year. This doesn't make it the longest night because mornings keep getting worse till the end of the month, but mornings suck anyway.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    I'm ok with that. what do they say about Tarzan?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    This was the Thatchite philosophy and it's still a very real thing and one which cuts society in two. Some are disturbed only by things which affect them and their family and others who don't share this way of seeing the world and can be physically sickened by vile politicians and feel genuine empathy with refugees who they have never met. These are the non Thatcherites and I'd like to think mainly Remainers.
    That will cause ructions!

    That said, I can throw in a practical impact. We are fighting a legal case (over money) at the moment and our main opponent is a Trumper. Has all the attributes too - arrogant yet thin skinned, very bigoted, racist, sexist, devious, aggressive, the works. He's been pumped up beyond belief by Trump's success, really on a roll, but now with the "Fall", you can already see the confidence draining away. Might not settle the case, I'm not claiming that, but it will definitely not do any harm.
    One wonders whether Rogers empathy towards the French has improved.
  • The Palace keeper let in a horror goal in the first half but possibly should be man of the match.

    The goal Spurs got probably shouldn't have gone in but there's been at least 4 others that really ought to have gone in if it wasn't for some stunning keeping.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
    Think so too. If they go any longer they'll be running a market on something quite different to who won the election.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Me too. The censors could apply the same caveat to Jeremy Corbyn's video release earlier today.

    Like Lawrence of Arabia, Corbyn's film was too long as well.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    Nope.

    Zuerst.

    I got a small star for it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
    Think so too. If they go any longer they'll be running a market on something quite different to who won the election.
    Back to hot tubs: it`s a truth universally acknowledged that hot tubs are naff. Obviously.

    But what about this one below. Wood-fired. It`s a beautiful thing. Still naff??


    https://www.gardenvity.co.uk/shop/hot-tubs/whirlpool-wood-fired-hot-tub-with-air-massage-and-led-lights/?gclid=CjwKCAiAlNf-BRB_EiwA2osbxWC6sOeOYZlyo5jnu6DLoYQCVPa_u4X1HVx9m61avNEw7prSqWGNThoCYfgQAvD_BwE
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Zuerst.

    Sehr gut. Das gibt ein Sternchen.
    Wouldn't "Erste(r)" be more appropriate? I'd thought "zuerst" was an adverbial form, more typically translated as "firstly" or "at first" or "to begin with" in English?

    Although I suppose it depends what exactly the poster wishes to convey :-)
    To wade into the German Grammar debate with my time expired O level German, isn't the adverbial form correct? The implied verb is "to go" so the modifier should be an adverb.
    Erster! (Ich bin erster!)
    Is right. I think.
    You do have to be a bit careful with German grammar. JFK once announced:
    "Ich bin ein Berliner!" [Literally, I am a (popular type of) German hot-dog.]

    It should have been "Ich bin Berliner" - I am from Berlin.

    I'm sure everyone knew what he meant though, just as I'm sure that in normal everyday German 'Erst' would do just fine for First.
    I was told he was saying he was a doughnut. never bothered to check though.
    It seems to a myth that the Berlin papers were full of cartoons of talking donuts, after the speech.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-does-everybody-think-jfk-said-im-jelly-donut-180963779/
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
    I am not defending Gupta ... but it seems very likely to me that her position is affected by historical events at the University of Oxford.

    It was because of Gupta's sexual harassment case (which she won) that the epidemiology group around Ferguson/Anderson moved to Imperial College.

    This is the sexual harassment case played out anew on the deadly battlefield of COVID-19.
    Fair enough, but my sympathy is very much limited given that she has repeatedly tried to push for public policy to follow her falsified viewpoint.

    Which would have resulted in hundreds of thousands further unnecessary deaths in this country, which puts her beyond the pale.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Not sure about the phrase 'outdated attitudes' as a descriptor since which particular attitudes are the outdated ones (presumably some of the attitudes in the film remain ok), so maybe just saying 'This historical film contains attitudes, language and cultural depictions which some may find offensive' or some other slightly more mealy mouthed sentence, but it's semantics at this point. People can still see it, and those who might get triggered have been warned off, no worries.

    Personally, have been reading some late 19th, early 20th century stuff lately, which can make for the awkward times with some terminology.
    I don't particularly support the 'outdated' word either, I'd swap it for something like 'historical' or 'contemporaneous'. But over all, provided the thing isn't censored I'm not too bothered.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
    Think so too. If they go any longer they'll be running a market on something quite different to who won the election.
    Back to hot tubs: it`s a truth universally acknowledged that hot tubs are naff. Obviously.

    But what about this one below. Wood-fired. It`s a beautiful thing. Still naff??

    https://www.gardenvity.co.uk/shop/hot-tubs/whirlpool-wood-fired-hot-tub-with-air-massage-and-led-lights/?gclid=CjwKCAiAlNf-BRB_EiwA2osbxWC6sOeOYZlyo5jnu6DLoYQCVPa_u4X1HVx9m61avNEw7prSqWGNThoCYfgQAvD_BwE
    Wow. I've changed my mind. Go for it. I can just see you in there.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Not heard much fanboiing for Gupta recently, has she been put in the let's not talk about Sweden box?

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338101639971024900?s=20

    Mind you, there's always the hardcore. Less deadly than the common cold ffs.

    https://twitter.com/MikeOtsuka/status/1338102052573077505?s=20

    3-6 months.
    210,000 - 420,000 infections per day on average.

    For a big chunk of a year.

    Yeah, that would have been great for the NHS.

    Up to 15,000 new hospitalisations per day - on average.
    Over 4,000 deaths per day. On average.
    Assuming the NHS can cope with an order of magnitude greater admissions without melting down.

    The Chancellor wanted to sacrifice 4000 people per day, while we were within weeks of a vaccine. Christ.
    You forget that we had already achieved herd immunity by May so this must have just been making sure all the people born since then got it.
    Oh yes.
    She insisted, as lockdown drew on, that we could end all restrictions and open up fully and there wouldn’t be a second wave because it had “come and gone.”

    Why the hell does anyone still listen to her playing the same repeatedly falsified record again and again?
    To be honest I don't quite understand how Heneghan doesn't come in for more stick given how much bollocks he's spouted.
    Because with Gupta and Misinformation Mike Yeadon spouting off, and Sikora occasionally popping up to update the date by which he assures it'll all be over (June September October December whenever-the-latest-one-is-this-time-for-sure-trust-me), he looks less out-there.
  • Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Once Biden is confirmed as President elect by the Electoral College on Monday the focus will shift to 2024 and Trump has a clear lead amongst Republican primary voters for the 2024 GOP nomination if he decides to run again.

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1336143427663085568?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1334952364676026369?s=20

    Hence GOP congressmen, wary of a primary challenge from a Trumper, have been reluctant to break ranks of him so far, though more will likely move from next week once constitutionally Biden is President elect, even if only to state that there is no way under the constitution Biden will not be the next President

    Plus, once Trump is in prison they will feel that can quit supporting him one presumes.
    I don't see how Trump can go to prison. Even in New York I think you'd struggle to find twelve random people all of whom didn't buy his BS.
    Sad to say my sense is also that Donald Trump will not see the inside of a prison cell. That feels like a Not Happening Event to me. I think his star will fade quite quickly, though, once stripped of the trappings of the presidency. Which will be so great. Just not hearing from or about the ghastly man and his ghastly politics all day and every day will be a sweet new dawn. He's been the worst part of my life for 4 long years.
    Really? You must lead a happy, fortunate and contented life. Congratulations. I can think of a very long list of things over the last 4 years that have been worse parts of my life than Donald Trump.
    Well it's true that the last 4 years have been free of trauma for me and mine. If there'd been really bad stuff like that going on, Donald Trump and his antics would have been relegated into the minor placings. But as it is, yes, I kid you not, he's been like a constant dark cloud sitting right above my head, and often enveloping it, even on the sunniest day.
    Well, as I say, congratulations on your good fortune. I really don't like Trump. He is amoral, misogynist, racist, corrupt and he has done considerable damage to US democracy, not least since November 5th. But I struggle to think of anything that he has done that has had a direct impact on me and mine.

    In contrast my wife had an operation, a child suffered badly from depression, I have had a trip to hospital myself, my brother has lived a half life with a terminal condition, my son has been denied exams two years in a row and a chance to shine, the implications of lockdown caused real financial concerns and it is now causing a non medical depression caused by a lack of holidays, family trips and socialising. Don't get me wrong, there have been lots of good things as well and I am not complaining. I am just struggling to imagine the leader of a different country impacting on me to such a material extent.
    Ok. First, my ongoing best wishes for all of that and in general. But you talk about feeling depressed and one thing about depression is it's different for everybody and the reasons for it are never invalid, regardless of whether others find them strange or not.

    So, me and Trump, it really has knocked me for six. That such a person could first of all have been elected to POTUS, and then have his quite unspeakable behaviour humoured and enabled and tolerated and downplayed for so long by so many, has been a massive problem for me. I found it really hard to accept and for 4 years, which is quite a long time, it made the world appear a less appealing place to me. It affected my mood significantly. Nothing clinical, not even close to that, but when I've felt low in recent times, the reason for it has often had something to do with him - not simply him per se, but what the Trump phenomenon was telling me.
    It's not a question of validity, but the fact is, you are using someone else's behaviour as a reason to feel bad, and that is your choice - just as it would be your choice to focus away from Donald Trump, and on something that makes you feel good. If life in all its variety and splendour is a buffet, you are currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate. And looking over at other people on other tables and in other queues, and being outraged about what they're choosing to eat. I'm not going to ask you to be any different, because that would imply that I want you to be different for me to feel better - and I don't. However, you may wish to ponder whether you prefer feeling bad, or good, and take steps in your chosen direction.
    That`s a great post. You do write some good ones at times.

    Just "at times" - don`t want you getting too excited.

    You say "currently deliberately feasting on the things you hate". Very good. You thought about every word there didn`t you. A lot`s in those 8 words. Finding victims, discovering grievance, reveling in it, being defined by it, manufacturing offense, hectoring others. The left as a mental state.

    Very good.
    I found it to be vacuous drivel, I'm afraid.

    PS: But each to his own. Will 14 Dec be "Hot Tub Day" at Betfair, do we think?
    Well - I`m pleased to report that my wife`s hot tub fixation appears to have receded slightly. No mention now for over a week. I`m keeping my head down.

    BF has not updated its news release re: settlement since 27/11 - heavily hints at 14th, but no actual cast-iron commitment. I`m hopeful, though I think it will actually be the 15th.
    Think so too. If they go any longer they'll be running a market on something quite different to who won the election.
    Back to hot tubs: it`s a truth universally acknowledged that hot tubs are naff. Obviously.

    But what about this one below. Wood-fired. It`s a beautiful thing. Still naff??


    https://www.gardenvity.co.uk/shop/hot-tubs/whirlpool-wood-fired-hot-tub-with-air-massage-and-led-lights/?gclid=CjwKCAiAlNf-BRB_EiwA2osbxWC6sOeOYZlyo5jnu6DLoYQCVPa_u4X1HVx9m61avNEw7prSqWGNThoCYfgQAvD_BwE
    Fire is not naff so that one can't be naff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited December 2020

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Not sure about the phrase 'outdated attitudes' as a descriptor since which particular attitudes are the outdated ones (presumably some of the attitudes in the film remain ok), so maybe just saying 'This historical film contains attitudes, language and cultural depictions which some may find offensive' or some other slightly more mealy mouthed sentence, but it's semantics at this point. People can still see it, and those who might get triggered have been warned off, no worries.

    Personally, have been reading some late 19th, early 20th century stuff lately, which can make for the awkward times with some terminology.
    I don't particularly support the 'outdated' word either, I'd swap it for something like 'historical' or 'contemporaneous'. But over all, provided the thing isn't censored I'm not too bothered.
    Be funny to see more direct ones though. Warning: This historical film about Ghengis Khan contains insensitive references to war rape, and a lot of white people pretending to be mongolians. Also, John Wayne plays Ghengis Khan. Do you really still want to watch it?
  • F1: could be wrong, but I just checked to see if Ladbrokes had paid out, and they have already.

    More than expected...

    I think it's because my supremely cunning bet on Hamilton have under 20.5 season points finishes was a winner rather than voided.

    A nice little bonus.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    IshmaelZ said:

    Some good news: what you have just experienced or are about to (if you are in the UK) is the earliest nightfall of the year. This doesn't make it the longest night because mornings keep getting worse till the end of the month, but mornings suck anyway.

    It barely got light here all day.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Not sure about the phrase 'outdated attitudes' as a descriptor since which particular attitudes are the outdated ones (presumably some of the attitudes in the film remain ok), so maybe just saying 'This historical film contains attitudes, language and cultural depictions which some may find offensive' or some other slightly more mealy mouthed sentence, but it's semantics at this point. People can still see it, and those who might get triggered have been warned off, no worries.

    Personally, have been reading some late 19th, early 20th century stuff lately, which can make for the awkward times with some terminology.
    I don't particularly support the 'outdated' word either, I'd swap it for something like 'historical' or 'contemporaneous'. But over all, provided the thing isn't censored I'm not too bothered.
    I still think i'd censor The Dam Busters though.
  • "Outdated attitudes" with zero censorship is perfectly reasonable. Let the snowflakes not watch it having been warned let everyone else watch it unfiltered and uncensored.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/AndrewJMullen/status/1338144390691360768

    Seems perfectly reasonable to me? Didn't we come to some agreement this was a good compromise.

    Not sure about the phrase 'outdated attitudes' as a descriptor since which particular attitudes are the outdated ones (presumably some of the attitudes in the film remain ok), so maybe just saying 'This historical film contains attitudes, language and cultural depictions which some may find offensive' or some other slightly more mealy mouthed sentence, but it's semantics at this point. People can still see it, and those who might get triggered have been warned off, no worries.

    Personally, have been reading some late 19th, early 20th century stuff lately, which can make for the awkward times with some terminology.
    I don't particularly support the 'outdated' word either, I'd swap it for something like 'historical' or 'contemporaneous'. But over all, provided the thing isn't censored I'm not too bothered.
    I still think i'd censor The Dam Busters though.
    I think so too. It wouldn't be that hard - you could still keep the dog in the film - just edit the parts when they address it by name.
This discussion has been closed.