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This Georgia runoff polling’s looking positive for the Democrats and Senate control might be in reac

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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338

    kamski said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    For me, populism means claiming to represent the "Will of the People". Often this is explicitly put in nationalistic terms - eg the "Will of the British People". There are always loads of "people" (often a majority), indeed "British people", who clearly disagree with said incarnation of the Will Of The People, but the implication is that these Other People are not properly British, or are traitors, or are members of some "Elite" (trying to frustrate the Will of the "Ordinary British People").

    I realise that there are other definitions, and the term is perhaps best avoided, but I don't think it is often used as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of".
    So it could be said to be

    "The will of the people" vs "The will of the proper people" ....

    As to "elites" - that is an accusation that gets thrown in all directions these days.
    If anything is it the "populists" who are claiming that there are some "proper people" whose will should be respected and that anyone who disagrees with them is not a proper person.
    But most politicians are somewhere on the "populist" spectrum and will use this dangerous kind of language sometimes, and plenty of journalists too.

    I hate it when after eg a general election some reporter says "the British people have spoken". No, lots of people have voted for different parties and different individuals for all kinds of different reasons (and lots of people have not voted at all for lots of different reasons), and this is reported as "the British have sent a clear message that blablabla". Such rubbish.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    It seems to be working in Scotland too. That's how the Tories have gone from "fewer than Pandas" to the clear opposition.
    Really?

    2017 GE
    13 SCon MPs returned

    24/07/19
    Boris Johnson becomes PM

    2019 GE
    6 SCon MPs returned

    03/12/20 Latest Election Map UK projection
    0 SCon MPs would be returned if a GE were held today
    Except that life didn't begin in 2017, nor did trying to turn the SNP into a bogeyman begin after 2017 so that is not the baseline. 2017 was very much the exception not the norm, so why not start from 1997?

    1997 GE - 0 SCon MPs vs 56 Labour MPs
    2001 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 56 Labour MPs
    2005 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 41 Labour MPs (fewer overall Scottish MPs from now on)
    2010 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 41 Labour MPs
    2015 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 1 Labour MP
    2017 GE - 13 SCon MPs vs 7 Labour MPs
    2019 GE - 6 SCon MPs vs 1 Labour MP

    The project to turn the SNP into a bogeyman began nearly a decade ago and 2017 and 2019 were by far the best two elections in decades.
    Go back to 1950, and try again ...
    Why? Have the SCons been trying to turn the SNP into a bogeyman since the 1950s? I don't think that's been a priority the whole time, it only became relevant in recent years so it is recent decades that are relevant as a before and after comparison.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502
    I predict that will not happen.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338
    MaxPB said:

    Good to see Fauci withdraw those ill advised comments about the UK vaccine approval, he must have regretted saying what he did almost immediately afterwards given that the FDA is a few days away from approving the very same vaccine.

    Had a chat with some pharma friends I went to university with, they both confirmed my suspicions that the EMA no longer recognising the MHRA is a real issue for the EU at the moment and will be for the next few years. The MHRA accounted for well over half of the EU's medicines regulatory capacity. One of them speculated that the EU strategy of not accepting mutual recognition was predicated on London based EMA staff moving with the job and drawing expertise away from the MHRA (which is a very international workplace with a huge proportion of EU workers). Given that hasn't materialised it leaves EU agencies filling the gap created by chucking the MHRA out and medicines regulators aren't exactly two a penny anywhere in the world.

    Stupidly the EU is simply going to replicate exactly what the MHRA does wrt approvals because the rulebooks in the UK and EU are identical and will more than likely remain so for some years to come and the government put a deal on the table for mutual recognition going forwards as long as both rulebooks stayed in broad alignment (which they would, given that the UK and EU are both in the first world and unlikely to take any risks with drug approval).

    Brexit in a nutshell. Shows how stupid it is to blindly believe that you hold all the cards, when you actually lack the expertise in a particular area.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,138

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    It seems to be working in Scotland too. That's how the Tories have gone from "fewer than Pandas" to the clear opposition.
    Really?

    2017 GE
    13 SCon MPs returned

    24/07/19
    Boris Johnson becomes PM

    2019 GE
    6 SCon MPs returned

    03/12/20 Latest Election Map UK projection
    0 SCon MPs would be returned if a GE were held today
    Except that life didn't begin in 2017, nor did trying to turn the SNP into a bogeyman begin after 2017 so that is not the baseline. 2017 was very much the exception not the norm, so why not start from 1997?

    1997 GE - 0 SCon MPs vs 56 Labour MPs
    2001 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 56 Labour MPs
    2005 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 41 Labour MPs (fewer overall Scottish MPs from now on)
    2010 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 41 Labour MPs
    2015 GE - 1 SCon MP vs 1 Labour MP
    2017 GE - 13 SCon MPs vs 7 Labour MPs
    2019 GE - 6 SCon MPs vs 1 Labour MP

    The project to turn the SNP into a bogeyman began nearly a decade ago and 2017 and 2019 were by far the best two elections in decades.
    Go back to 1950, and try again ...
    Why? Have the SCons been trying to turn the SNP into a bogeyman since the 1950s? I don't think that's been a priority the whole time, it only became relevant in recent years so it is recent decades that are relevant as a before and after comparison.
    Fair enough! But the SCUP were moaning about 'Nats' well before 1997 - 1977-8 perhaps, and panicking in the early-mid 1990s (how else to explain their returning the mediaeval cesspit lid from Edward of England's throne at Westminster in 1996)?
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,309
    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday he hoped France would soon get rid of President Emmanuel Macron, describing him as a burden on France which was enduring dangerous times.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2020/12/04/Erdogan-says-he-hopes-France-will-get-rid-of-Macron-burden-soon
  • Options
    HYUFD said:
    Why do the Frenc need to compromise when we keep getting told that the idea we hold the card on fishing is a nonsense? 🤣

    That all the squealing about going too far is coming from the EU side and not from the ERG etc really shows that the UK has done a great job this time playing the cards we hold. What a shame we wasted so many years with Theresa May but we got there in the end.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,118
    I thought it was reported Merkel wanted to mollify Poland and Hungary rather than stand firm? There seems dispute on how far values should be upheld.
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    HYUFD said:
    Those Welsh lasses look like they are out on the lash rather than shopping.
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    HYUFD said:
    But are they high value service professionals?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Yup - the Hilary Clinton 'deplorables'!
    A better description of a big chunk of that Trump base has yet to be coined. But of course politicians must NOT diss the voters. Especially before they've voted. It's the ultimate taboo and also terrible politics. She should have known this. Biden much savvier, thankfully.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Good to see Fauci withdraw those ill advised comments about the UK vaccine approval

    Notably the EMA has not, which is foolish given it provides ammunition to the anti-vaxxers.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,309

    HYUFD said:
    Why do the Frenc need to compromise when we keep getting told that the idea we hold the card on fishing is a nonsense? 🤣

    That all the squealing about going too far is coming from the EU side and not from the ERG etc really shows that the UK has done a great job this time playing the cards we hold. What a shame we wasted so many years with Theresa May but we got there in the end.
    No, it just shows that the UK side is less transparent.
  • Options
    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    Good to see Fauci withdraw those ill advised comments about the UK vaccine approval, he must have regretted saying what he did almost immediately afterwards given that the FDA is a few days away from approving the very same vaccine.

    Had a chat with some pharma friends I went to university with, they both confirmed my suspicions that the EMA no longer recognising the MHRA is a real issue for the EU at the moment and will be for the next few years. The MHRA accounted for well over half of the EU's medicines regulatory capacity. One of them speculated that the EU strategy of not accepting mutual recognition was predicated on London based EMA staff moving with the job and drawing expertise away from the MHRA (which is a very international workplace with a huge proportion of EU workers). Given that hasn't materialised it leaves EU agencies filling the gap created by chucking the MHRA out and medicines regulators aren't exactly two a penny anywhere in the world.

    Stupidly the EU is simply going to replicate exactly what the MHRA does wrt approvals because the rulebooks in the UK and EU are identical and will more than likely remain so for some years to come and the government put a deal on the table for mutual recognition going forwards as long as both rulebooks stayed in broad alignment (which they would, given that the UK and EU are both in the first world and unlikely to take any risks with drug approval).

    Brexit in a nutshell. Shows how stupid it is to blindly believe that you hold all the cards, when you actually lack the expertise in a particular area.
    Yes the EU's blind belief was a mistake but given the weakness of Theresa May and her insecurity and inability to stand up for the UK is it a surprise they overreacted and overreached?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,118
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage pushing 'stop the boats' like his close friend Tony Abbott did in 2013

    https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1334803354699108353?s=20

    Trouble is, you can only (assuming its wise) "turn back the boats" in international waters - which doesn't exist in the Straits of Dover. The waters are either French (which we can't enter) or British (in which case the boats are our responsibility). But apart from that...
    That's balls. They could do interceptions in British waters, load the refugees into lifeboats, tow them west until the British and French EEZs diverge (say as far as Roscoff) and leave them just outside the French EEZ with only enough fuel to get to France. That's exactly what the RAN did with boats from Indonesia.

    Saying it "can't" be done is absolute cobblers. It absolutely could be done but the UK government doesn't have the stomach for it.

    I am not commending it as a course of action but to pretend its impossible is just dishonest cowardice. But what else would you expect from tories. That virtue isn't going to signal itself.
    So the fact that the Tories might be trying to avoid towing boatloads full of refugees out into the middle of the sea somehow shows the Tories are shits?

    I mean don't get me wrong - I am no longer a member of the party but that is some tortuous logic.
    It's not torturous its demented. As ever theres plenty to actually criticise without either making things up, or criticising them for not doing something even worse out of cowardice. All based on a severe interpretation on casual use of 'can't'.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    edited December 2020
    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    For me, populism means claiming to represent the "Will of the People". Often this is explicitly put in nationalistic terms - eg the "Will of the British People". There are always loads of "people" (often a majority), indeed "British people", who clearly disagree with said incarnation of the Will Of The People, but the implication is that these Other People are not properly British, or are traitors, or are members of some "Elite" (trying to frustrate the Will of the "Ordinary British People").

    I realise that there are other definitions, and the term is perhaps best avoided, but I don't think it is often used as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of".
    So it could be said to be

    "The will of the people" vs "The will of the proper people" ....

    As to "elites" - that is an accusation that gets thrown in all directions these days.
    If anything is it the "populists" who are claiming that there are some "proper people" whose will should be respected and that anyone who disagrees with them is not a proper person.
    But most politicians are somewhere on the "populist" spectrum and will use this dangerous kind of language sometimes, and plenty of journalists too.

    I hate it when after eg a general election some reporter says "the British people have spoken". No, lots of people have voted for different parties and different individuals for all kinds of different reasons (and lots of people have not voted at all for lots of different reasons), and this is reported as "the British have sent a clear message that blablabla". Such rubbish.
    Every claims to be speaking in the "interests of the state" - since before Pericles.

    My point is not that there is a virtuous group in this - in fact the reverse.

    Remain has the bogey-group of "The Populists" who are really being run by "Russians/Elitists/Gauls"- shouldn't that be the "Populares"??

    Brexiters have the bogey-group of the "Remainers" who are really being run by "EU/Globalists/Boni"

    etc etc
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    I predict that will not happen.
    Don't plan on flying Qantas then.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
    Of course - the debate is about the meaning of 'better-informed' and your definition would be someone else's fake news. And leaving all that aside there should always be room for common sense to temper the musings of the too highly educated!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
    Please define well informed. If you can do so, a major prize in Philosophy awaits.

    If nothing else, you will beat Plato and Socrates.
  • Options

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    Yes and no.

    Since I'm waiting for something else to happen, I looked up the numbers.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-generation-mix-quarter-and-fuel-source-gb

    (Bear in mind, this is the kind of thing I have to talk about in my day job.)

    In 2012, yes, more coal than gas- though no way do the quarterly figures average to 41%.

    Also something funny happened in 2012; the gas use fell pretty sharply as a one-off. Before that, you have to go back to Q1 2009 for coal to exceed gas even for a quarter.

    So yes, there was a dash for gas in the nineties and noughties, and by the end of that, coal was number 2 as an energy source for electricity, mostly used to get extra capacity in winter.

    There has been an impressive growth in renewables in the last decade, which has further reduced coal use, and that's great and impressive. But there's no need to cherry-pick data to overegg the pudding.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502

    kinabalu said:

    I predict that will not happen.
    Don't plan on flying Qantas then.
    For air travel, yes. But I don't see many domestic uses for it. For example, I doubt we will have to prove vax to access entertainments and hospitality.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,090
    Nigelb said:
    Father Lenin would not have approved of this atomised commercialisation.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage pushing 'stop the boats' like his close friend Tony Abbott did in 2013

    https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1334803354699108353?s=20

    Trouble is, you can only (assuming its wise) "turn back the boats" in international waters - which doesn't exist in the Straits of Dover. The waters are either French (which we can't enter) or British (in which case the boats are our responsibility). But apart from that...
    That's balls. They could do interceptions in British waters, load the refugees into lifeboats, tow them west until the British and French EEZs diverge (say as far as Roscoff) and leave them just outside the French EEZ with only enough fuel to get to France. That's exactly what the RAN did with boats from Indonesia.

    Saying it "can't" be done is absolute cobblers. It absolutely could be done but the UK government doesn't have the stomach for it.

    I am not commending it as a course of action but to pretend its impossible is just dishonest cowardice. But what else would you expect from tories. That virtue isn't going to signal itself.
    So the fact that the Tories might be trying to avoid towing boatloads full of refugees out into the middle of the sea somehow shows the Tories are shits?

    I mean don't get me wrong - I am no longer a member of the party but that is some tortuous logic.
    It's not torturous its demented. As ever theres plenty to actually criticise without either making things up, or criticising them for not doing something even worse out of cowardice. All based on a severe interpretation on casual use of 'can't'.
    And the UK government "could" use Apache helicopters to shoot up the boats. One could say that they don't have the stomach for it.

    Not having the stomach for that is a good this, of course.

    Deliberately leaving people to drown in the sea is a policy that has only been adopted by the Russian Navy, in recent times, I believe.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,338
    felix said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
    Of course - the debate is about the meaning of 'better-informed' and your definition would be someone else's fake news. And leaving all that aside there should always be room for common sense to temper the musings of the too highly educated!
    Yes. I guess I would be in favour of some kind of education that could help us guard ourselves against being taken in by the kinds of lies, half-truths, false promises and so on that we seem to be too ready to believe in.

    A few guidelines on how to approach "information" that is given to us. A few warning signs to look out for. We could all benefit, and society too.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Nate Silver said yesterday be very wary of these Georgia polls, they imply a much lower GOP turnout than at the Presidential election.

    Which might happen given the orange hued Love Object is not on the ballot for this.
    That will lower Democratic turnout too and the prospect of AOC and the far left driving the agenda will push GOP turnout once Biden is confirmed as EC winner by the EC on Dec 14th
    There is no prospect of that, except in the fevered imagination of the Trumpaloopas.

    A Republican win would mean at least two years of legislative standstill, if not outright budget sabotage.
    It would mean Biden forced to compromise with the GOP, not the Democrats in control of every branch of Federal Government and AOC and Pelosi pushing the agenda leading to Tea Party 2 with bells on and a huge conservative backlash in the 2022 midterms
    There is no compromise with the GOP - did you not follow Obama's presidency at all ? And that was when they were relatively moderate compared to the present incarnation.
    As has been pointed out to you above, a 50/50 Senate (with a Harris casting vote) would still need the votes of the right of centre Democrats to get any legislation through. The chances of AOC "pushing the agenda" are zero.
    A Republican majority led by McConnell would block everything, as they did before.
    Yes, it's a nonsense - Manchin won't vote for court expansion for instance.
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Nate Silver said yesterday be very wary of these Georgia polls, they imply a much lower GOP turnout than at the Presidential election.

    Which might happen given the orange hued Love Object is not on the ballot for this.
    That will lower Democratic turnout too and the prospect of AOC and the far left driving the agenda will push GOP turnout once Biden is confirmed as EC winner by the EC on Dec 14th
    There is no prospect of that, except in the fevered imagination of the Trumpaloopas.

    A Republican win would mean at least two years of legislative standstill, if not outright budget sabotage.
    It would mean Biden forced to compromise with the GOP, not the Democrats in control of every branch of Federal Government and AOC and Pelosi pushing the agenda leading to Tea Party 2 with bells on and a huge conservative backlash in the 2022 midterms
    There is no compromise with the GOP - did you not follow Obama's presidency at all ? And that was when they were relatively moderate compared to the present incarnation.
    As has been pointed out to you above, a 50/50 Senate (with a Harris casting vote) would still need the votes of the right of centre Democrats to get any legislation through. The chances of AOC "pushing the agenda" are zero.
    A Republican majority led by McConnell would block everything, as they did before.
    Yes, it's a nonsense - Manchin won't vote for court expansion for instance.
    If the Democrats win all 3 branches of government the GOP will win a landslide in the 2022 midterms that will make 2010 look like a damp squib, Americans voted to get rid of Trump, narrowly, that was it, they did not vote for any shift left at all and certainly not on cultural matters
    Impressive predictive skills. How was Trump's margin in Orange County California this time out compared to 2016?
    Irrelevant as California is now safe Democratic anyway, Trump did however hold Florida and Ohio, the first losing presidential candidate to do since 1960
    I could have sworn someone on here made a firm prediction about Trump going to do much better in OC this time round yet in the end he lost by an even larger margin than last time.

    Whoever it was, we best take their predictions with a pinch of salt this time round.

    Maybe you could help me track down the prediction.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,090
    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
  • Options

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    Yes and no.

    Since I'm waiting for something else to happen, I looked up the numbers.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-generation-mix-quarter-and-fuel-source-gb

    (Bear in mind, this is the kind of thing I have to talk about in my day job.)

    In 2012, yes, more coal than gas- though no way do the quarterly figures average to 41%.

    Also something funny happened in 2012; the gas use fell pretty sharply as a one-off. Before that, you have to go back to Q1 2009 for coal to exceed gas even for a quarter.

    So yes, there was a dash for gas in the nineties and noughties, and by the end of that, coal was number 2 as an energy source for electricity, mostly used to get extra capacity in winter.

    There has been an impressive growth in renewables in the last decade, which has further reduced coal use, and that's great and impressive. But there's no need to cherry-pick data to overegg the pudding.
    Either way it is nitpicking over the key principle - coal has been a significant and major contributer for centuries now. For decades now gas has been and continues to be important but coal remained considerable.

    In the space of a decade it has all but been wiped out and replaced with renewables. That is impressive.

    And to the original point, it is something the UK has led the world in not been forced to do by the EU.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,178
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:
    Father Lenin would not have approved of this atomised commercialisation.
    The cat's eyes are reminiscent of Bob Flag in 1984.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    MaxPB said:

    Good to see Fauci withdraw those ill advised comments about the UK vaccine approval, he must have regretted saying what he did almost immediately afterwards given that the FDA is a few days away from approving the very same vaccine.

    Had a chat with some pharma friends I went to university with, they both confirmed my suspicions that the EMA no longer recognising the MHRA is a real issue for the EU at the moment and will be for the next few years. The MHRA accounted for well over half of the EU's medicines regulatory capacity. One of them speculated that the EU strategy of not accepting mutual recognition was predicated on London based EMA staff moving with the job and drawing expertise away from the MHRA (which is a very international workplace with a huge proportion of EU workers). Given that hasn't materialised it leaves EU agencies filling the gap created by chucking the MHRA out and medicines regulators aren't exactly two a penny anywhere in the world.

    Stupidly the EU is simply going to replicate exactly what the MHRA does wrt approvals because the rulebooks in the UK and EU are identical and will more than likely remain so for some years to come and the government put a deal on the table for mutual recognition going forwards as long as both rulebooks stayed in broad alignment (which they would, given that the UK and EU are both in the first world and unlikely to take any risks with drug approval).

    Brexit in a nutshell. Shows how stupid it is to blindly believe that you hold all the cards, when you actually lack the expertise in a particular area.
    The EU is making the same mistake in the financial sector. The desperation to be a regulatory exporter has blinded them to the fact that the EU isn't somewhere people want to put their money and keeping the UK in the tent pissing out with a mutual recognition deal and a long dated dispute resolution mechanism is a much better long term bet than having the UK out of the tent pissing in.
    The EU falls for its own spin and believes it is an economic superpower that can write the rules and all must bow down before it. It isn't.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    edited December 2020
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847
    kamski said:

    felix said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
    Of course - the debate is about the meaning of 'better-informed' and your definition would be someone else's fake news. And leaving all that aside there should always be room for common sense to temper the musings of the too highly educated!
    Yes. I guess I would be in favour of some kind of education that could help us guard ourselves against being taken in by the kinds of lies, half-truths, false promises and so on that we seem to be too ready to believe in.

    A few guidelines on how to approach "information" that is given to us. A few warning signs to look out for. We could all benefit, and society too.
    'A few guidelines on how to approach "information"' - perhaps we could try educating people in school about Civics? Strangely, that was on the history curriculum I did at school.... The whole point of learning about Greek and Roman history is "It's all been done before".
  • Options
    Ireland seems to be going the same way. Vaccination certificates are seductive cover for a national ID card and database.
  • Options

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    My apologies, yes, there was a dip in gas production after 2011 which allowed coal to take the lead again for a short while.

    However, it's the coalition government (with Ed Davey as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change) that we have most to thank for the shift to renewables. Since the coalition ended, the government has been pretty much coasting on the policies that were put in place at that time.

    And if you think the EU had nothing to do with it with our reduction in emissions, you must have a very short memory. Do you not remember the right-wing protestations about EU directives on everything from light bulb to vacuum cleaners? The anger about the "green crap" being foisted upon us?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,090
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,897
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    Bicycling version of a Michael Kors handbag...
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
    I will approach it albeit with caution.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847

    Ireland seems to be going the same way. Vaccination certificates are seductive cover for a national ID card and database.
    Michael Howard remakes in his autobiography, that as Home Secretary, he found that every time an emergency happened the same thing followed. A raft of proposals ranging from the illiberal to the downright fascist would be put in his in tray. A classic, apparently was internment without trial for naughty group x.

    He said that a major part of the job of Home Sec was having the confidence to say No, No, No etc to the assembled partisans of the various proposals.
  • Options

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    My apologies, yes, there was a dip in gas production after 2011 which allowed coal to take the lead again for a short while.

    However, it's the coalition government (with Ed Davey as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change) that we have most to thank for the shift to renewables. Since the coalition ended, the government has been pretty much coasting on the policies that were put in place at that time.

    And if you think the EU had nothing to do with it with our reduction in emissions, you must have a very short memory. Do you not remember the right-wing protestations about EU directives on everything from light bulb to vacuum cleaners? The anger about the "green crap" being foisted upon us?
    Besides light bulbs [which played a significant role] whose time had come technologically much of the rest was the EU tinkering on the edges; reducing energy consumption in a few devices is meaningless crap yes. Dropping a vaccuum cleaner's motor power is a sideshow and irrelevant to the big picture.

    The key to removing emissions is not to reduce electricity consumption by a fraction of a percentage point - it is to use clean electricity. That is something the UK has led the way on for the past decade and yes the Coalition Government until husky-hugging PM Cameron and his Cabinet Ministers like Davey did have a key role to play with that.
  • Options
    The coronavirus situation in Wales remains “very serious”, with almost two-thirds of local authorities seeing a seven-day incidence rate of 150 cases per 100,000 people or higher, first minister Mark Drakeford has said.

    Drakeford told a press conference that Neath Port Talbot and Blaenau Gwent had rates that exceeded 400 cases per 100,000 people.

    He said that Wales was experiencing an “unmistakable rise in coronavirus once again” following the reduction in cases from the country’s 17-day firebreak lockdown.

    Every day we are seeing more and more people admitted to hospital with coronavirus symptoms.

    In the last week we have seen a record number of coronavirus-related patients and these numbers are increasing.

    Many of these patients will be in hospital for three weeks or longer.

    The epidemic is putting our health service under a significant and sustained pressure.
  • Options
    DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    Ireland seems to be going the same way. Vaccination certificates are seductive cover for a national ID card and database.
    Any business requiring its customers to have a vaccination certificate will have almost no customers until most of us have been vaccinated.

    But by then, so many people will have been vaccinated, the effective R0 will be so low, and the virus would be so uncommon, that having an unvaccinated customer in would not pose a material additional risk.
  • Options
    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
    Another thing that have been selling like hotcakes...I am having to wait a month to get the new HRM strap that I want, as they are basically sold out worldwide.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020
    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502
    edited December 2020

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    BJ and his motley crew (more populist than popular now the glitter is coming off the turd) are certainly doing their best to turn the SNP into a bogeyman. This may work in certain parts of England, or the Channel Islands, but zero evidence of any effect in the important bit, i.e. Scotland. A rising chorus of UJs, criticising devolution and Scotland's a bit shit reaching a crescendo in 6 months will do the trick I'm sure.
    The other interesting bit is that "Populism" is another convenient bogeyman - as shorthand for "people voting for stuff proper people don't approve of"

    If you agree with what Cromwell said at the Putney Debates - just admit it.
    I'm not aware that anyone on PB has owned up to hankering after restricting the vote to (presumably the modern equivalent) higher rate income tax payers and owner-occupiers.
    Great idea. Roll back the various great reform acts and take the vote off knobbers.
    Until the Great Reform Act of 1832 less than 3% of the population had the vote of course, a figure which rose to 20% after, if we still had that franchise of course we would never have had Brexit, mind you we would also probably never have had the NHS either
    Plenty of people complain about ill-educated voters. Which would, in practise suggest restricting the vote to the University educated. Possibly the high end university educated. Which would, in effect, take you back to what Cromwell was proposing - the middle and the high would run the country. The low would get to live in it.
    Perhaps they could restrict the franchise to Oxbridge graduates earning over £100 000 a year, then we really would get elitist politics
    Perhaps it means that a democracy works better with better-informed citizens?
    Please define well informed. If you can do so, a major prize in Philosophy awaits.

    If nothing else, you will beat Plato and Socrates.
    The term can be described but not defined. Which is a problem if you want to use it as a voting condition but not if you are just offering it up in conversation as something which would make for a better functioning democracy.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
    Another thing that have been selling like hotcakes...I am having to wait a month to get the new HRM strap that I want, as they are basically sold out worldwide.
    The thing that surprises me is how good the latest Heart Rate monitoring watches are - used to be rubbish vs the chest straps. But now the good ones seem to give the same accuracy.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,897
    edited December 2020

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    Yes and no.

    Since I'm waiting for something else to happen, I looked up the numbers.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-generation-mix-quarter-and-fuel-source-gb

    (Bear in mind, this is the kind of thing I have to talk about in my day job.)

    In 2012, yes, more coal than gas- though no way do the quarterly figures average to 41%.

    Also something funny happened in 2012; the gas use fell pretty sharply as a one-off. Before that, you have to go back to Q1 2009 for coal to exceed gas even for a quarter.

    So yes, there was a dash for gas in the nineties and noughties, and by the end of that, coal was number 2 as an energy source for electricity, mostly used to get extra capacity in winter.

    There has been an impressive growth in renewables in the last decade, which has further reduced coal use, and that's great and impressive. But there's no need to cherry-pick data to overegg the pudding.
    Either way it is nitpicking over the key principle - coal has been a significant and major contributer for centuries now. For decades now gas has been and continues to be important but coal remained considerable.

    In the space of a decade it has all but been wiped out and replaced with renewables. That is impressive.

    And to the original point, it is something the UK has led the world in not been forced to do by the EU.
    Meanwhile, Germany is running at about 20-30% coal (last figure I saw), and Sweden / Finland / Ireland are still burning peat in power stations.

    Here, we've been researching how to restore peat bogs for the last 20 years.

    As ever, the EU needs to get its arse in gear, and get with the programme :smile: .
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
    Another thing that have been selling like hotcakes...I am having to wait a month to get the new HRM strap that I want, as they are basically sold out worldwide.
    The thing that surprises me is how good the latest Heart Rate monitoring watches are - used to be rubbish vs the chest straps. But now the good ones seem to give the same accuracy.
    My understanding (from bit of research I have done) is they still aren't as good. Have improved but not as accurate as the chest strap, can fail to work under certain conditions and you pay a premium for it. Where as the chest strap ones, even the cheap ones, £40-50, from established brands like Garmin or Wahoo are basically as bang on.

    What is great now is the integration with everything. I have a bike erg that transmits power, rpm etc to my phone and apps like zwift. Can add in HRM. And it is all seamless and wireless. Just switch on and go, and then see all thar data graphed every which way.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,717
    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.

    It's amazing that no one talks about this idiotic 2 week circuit breaker any more. We saw how ineffective it was in Wales which has got surging cases again.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    All one's years are formative years.

    Where I went, the whole "born to rule" vibe just wasn't there.

    And thirdly, nomenklaturas gonna nomenk, irrespective of secondary education arrangements. Donald Trump Jr did not attend Eton, and that didn't prevent him from turning into Donald Trump Jr. Ditto Vasily Iosifovich Stalin.
  • Options

    Interesting Guardian article about how the EU is failing to protect the Mediterranean.

    Because it confounds the assumptions about the motivations behind Brexit, there has been very little commentary on the very real possibility of the UK adopting far more environmentally positive policies once we're unshackled from the EU's rules and regulations around agriculture etc.

    Boris and Gove will prove, I suspect, a lot Greener than many may assume to be the case.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/03/auditors-slam-eu-for-marine-protected-areas-that-fail-to-protect-ocean


    I think most of those concerned about environmental issues simply don't believe these promises. Given that the last few decades have largely consisted of the UK being pushed/forced/shamed into improving its environmental policies by the EU, it seems naive in the extreme to expect the tories to suddenly go all green off their own bat without the EU urging them along. Johnson and Gove's green pretensions will be jettisoned and forgotten as soon as they start costing money.
    The UK has in the last few decade led the world in improving environmental policies not been forced into it by the EU.

    In the past decade we've gone from primarily coal power to virtually zero coal power and become a global leader in low cost sustainable wind energy. The EU had nothing to do with that.
    Your arguments would carry more weight if you bothered actually doing some research. Coal has not been our primary source of power since the 90s and Thatcher's dash for gas.
    In 2012 coal produced 41% of our electricity and was our primary source of electricity.

    Today we have been coal-free most of the year and coal is very much the exception not the norm.

    That is an incredible turnaround in eight years.
    My apologies, yes, there was a dip in gas production after 2011 which allowed coal to take the lead again for a short while.

    However, it's the coalition government (with Ed Davey as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change) that we have most to thank for the shift to renewables. Since the coalition ended, the government has been pretty much coasting on the policies that were put in place at that time.

    And if you think the EU had nothing to do with it with our reduction in emissions, you must have a very short memory. Do you not remember the right-wing protestations about EU directives on everything from light bulb to vacuum cleaners? The anger about the "green crap" being foisted upon us?
    Besides light bulbs [which played a significant role] whose time had come technologically much of the rest was the EU tinkering on the edges; reducing energy consumption in a few devices is meaningless crap yes. Dropping a vaccuum cleaner's motor power is a sideshow and irrelevant to the big picture.

    The key to removing emissions is not to reduce electricity consumption by a fraction of a percentage point - it is to use clean electricity. That is something the UK has led the way on for the past decade and yes the Coalition Government until husky-hugging PM Cameron and his Cabinet Ministers like Davey did have a key role to play with that.
    UK electricity consumption dropped from a peak of 357.2 TWh in 2005 to 301.8 TWh in 2019. That's over 15%, not "a fraction of a percentage point".
  • Options
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
    Other half?

    Other 99% more like.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020
    MaxPB said:

    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.

    It's amazing that no one talks about this idiotic 2 week circuit breaker any more. We saw how ineffective it was in Wales which has got surging cases again.
    And in NI.... luckily for captain hindsight the media aren't interested in picking him up on the one time he popped up in primetime to actually propose an idea, that it was shit. Just let him get away with day in day out say the government got it wrong on everything.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    FARRR KIN ELL

    OK So I went on to the 4iiii power meter web page only to find that a power meter would or could set me back upwards of 500 smackeroos. I think I would only just be able to afford the PRECISION PRO Drive Side Maintenance Kit ($14.99).

    @Dura_Ace, mate, imagine me toodling around the highways and byways on my, er, Apollo Highway (£70 from ebay) with a $1,000 power meter strapped onto it.

    I think we have, how shall I say, differing approaches to our cycling. Bon voyages!

    Don't google Meilenstein wheels. It could finish you off.
    LOL.

    It's bad enough that I live close to a very fancy (as far as I can see and no it's not Halfords) bike shop and they have to put up with me coming in every few months with my "HA" when I've ridden into a hedge to say please fix the gears.
    HRM is a very useful and relatively cheap training aid. Not as good as a power meter as you can't correlate cadence and power but a hell of a lot better than nothing. Get the HR into the red a keep it there!
    Another thing that have been selling like hotcakes...I am having to wait a month to get the new HRM strap that I want, as they are basically sold out worldwide.
    The thing that surprises me is how good the latest Heart Rate monitoring watches are - used to be rubbish vs the chest straps. But now the good ones seem to give the same accuracy.
    My understanding (from bit of research I have done) is they still aren't as good. Have improved but not as accurate as the chest strap, can fail to work under certain conditions and you pay a premium for it. Where as the chest strap ones, even the cheap ones, £40-50, from established brands like Garmin or Wahoo are basically as bang on.

    What is great now is the integration with everything. I have a bike erg that transmits power, rpm etc to my phone and apps like zwift. Can add in HRM. And it is all seamless and wireless. Just switch on and go, and then see all thar data graphed every which way.
    I've been using a Polar one for a while - tried is vs the strap and it gave the same results.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I predict that will not happen.
    Don't plan on flying Qantas then.
    For air travel, yes. But I don't see many domestic uses for it. For example, I doubt we will have to prove vax to access entertainments and hospitality.
    So it will happen. I agree it’s unlikely that terrestrial businesses will require it provided we drive incidence down sufficiently.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    All one's years are formative years.

    Where I went, the whole "born to rule" vibe just wasn't there.

    And thirdly, nomenklaturas gonna nomenk, irrespective of secondary education arrangements. Donald Trump Jr did not attend Eton, and that didn't prevent him from turning into Donald Trump Jr. Ditto Vasily Iosifovich Stalin.
    Yes but the early years are on balance more formative. Of course the likes of Eton don't imbue everybody who attends with a feeling of superiority. Likewise a person can obtain that without going anywhere near such institutions. Tons of examples of both of those. But as generalizations go, "attendance at Eton and ilk net net increases the level of born to rule sentiment in this world" is imo defensible and not necessarily indicative of prejudice.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020
    BBC News - Covid-19: UK 'confident' of having 800,000 vaccine doses by next week
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55184849

    I fear the government have repeated the mistake they have made so often over the past 6 months, i.e. make themselves a hostage to fortune by overpromising on things outside their control, resulting in under delivering.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
    I've come across many crass public schoolers in my time too. OTOH, my best friend for a few years in my 20s was a real posho who'd been to Eton. He was just a lovely person.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,847
    MaxPB said:

    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.

    It's amazing that no one talks about this idiotic 2 week circuit breaker any more. We saw how ineffective it was in Wales which has got surging cases again.
    What I always find interesting is how certain comments/ideas sink without trace.

    I remember when the late Senator John Glenn (the ex-astronaut) tore into GW Bush for allowing Enron to become the biggest bankruptcy in US history. About 10 minutes before the fraud became evident.

    Strangely, no-one ever mentioned Senator Glenn's position on this, ever again....
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I predict that will not happen.
    Don't plan on flying Qantas then.
    For air travel, yes. But I don't see many domestic uses for it. For example, I doubt we will have to prove vax to access entertainments and hospitality.
    So it will happen. I agree it’s unlikely that terrestrial businesses will require it provided we drive incidence down sufficiently.
    Yes. Just that when I see "Vax ID Card" it conjurs up to me something everyone has to get and flash around in order to start living normally again. That's what I don't see happening.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,491

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.

    It's amazing that no one talks about this idiotic 2 week circuit breaker any more. We saw how ineffective it was in Wales which has got surging cases again.
    What I always find interesting is how certain comments/ideas sink without trace.

    I remember when the late Senator John Glenn (the ex-astronaut) tore into GW Bush for allowing Enron to become the biggest bankruptcy in US history. About 10 minutes before the fraud became evident.

    Strangely, no-one ever mentioned Senator Glenn's position on this, ever again....
    Hague getting grief for 2 weeks straight for mishandling the evacuation of ex-pats in Libya and why wasn't he sending in the SAS etc....when they had already been their for weeks and had already secured an airfield and busy neutralizing hostiles if they went close to ex-pats.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,897
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    All one's years are formative years.

    Where I went, the whole "born to rule" vibe just wasn't there.

    And thirdly, nomenklaturas gonna nomenk, irrespective of secondary education arrangements. Donald Trump Jr did not attend Eton, and that didn't prevent him from turning into Donald Trump Jr. Ditto Vasily Iosifovich Stalin.
    Yes but the early years are on balance more formative. Of course the likes of Eton don't imbue everybody who attends with a feeling of superiority. Likewise a person can obtain that without going anywhere near such institutions. Tons of examples of both of those. But as generalizations go, "attendance at Eton and ilk net net increases the level of born to rule sentiment in this world" is imo defensible and not necessarily indicative of prejudice.
    Isn't the Born to Rule problem more about Oxford University than Eton (based on Prime Ministers and perhaps Cabinet Ministers)?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,502

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    I just call out shit ideas when I see them and link to covid news...I haven't exactly spared the UK government from daily criticism and similarly posted the numbers for England / UK basically every day.

    The point with the firebreak was as the likes of myself and Max pointed out at the time, the science it was based on was horseshit.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,491
    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    The 2 week fire-break was fine, however it was too short and the release was too relaxed.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    It has been explained a 1000 times on here why it is.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    All one's years are formative years.

    Where I went, the whole "born to rule" vibe just wasn't there.

    And thirdly, nomenklaturas gonna nomenk, irrespective of secondary education arrangements. Donald Trump Jr did not attend Eton, and that didn't prevent him from turning into Donald Trump Jr. Ditto Vasily Iosifovich Stalin.
    Yes but the early years are on balance more formative. Of course the likes of Eton don't imbue everybody who attends with a feeling of superiority. Likewise a person can obtain that without going anywhere near such institutions. Tons of examples of both of those. But as generalizations go, "attendance at Eton and ilk net net increases the level of born to rule sentiment in this world" is imo defensible and not necessarily indicative of prejudice.
    Isn't the Born to Rule problem more about Oxford University than Eton (based on Prime Ministers and perhaps Cabinet Ministers)?
    What about those who Think They're Born To Rule But Never Do So Have A Grudge Against The Other Place For The Rest Of Their Lives That's So Bad They Even Sound Like Anti Vaxxers Some Of The Time?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    HYUFD said:
    So get behind tidal lagoon power stations, Boris. No good saying they were a wonderful thing we should be doing during your leadership swing through Wales, then doing naff all to stop BEIS officials blocking them....
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    So when are Wales going to have to give in to the inevitable and have another proper lockdown? And this time, will it be for long enough?

    Perhaps they can drag it out until the rest of the UK goes back into one after Christmas hall pass scheme causes a spike.

    It's amazing that no one talks about this idiotic 2 week circuit breaker any more. We saw how ineffective it was in Wales which has got surging cases again.
    What I always find interesting is how certain comments/ideas sink without trace.

    I remember when the late Senator John Glenn (the ex-astronaut) tore into GW Bush for allowing Enron to become the biggest bankruptcy in US history. About 10 minutes before the fraud became evident.

    Strangely, no-one ever mentioned Senator Glenn's position on this, ever again....
    The years of right-wing derision of wind farms, energy-saving appliances and other "green crap" pushed by the lefties and eco-nuts. All forgotten, now that we are apparently leading the world in renewable energy.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited December 2020

    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    The 2 week fire-break was fine, however it was too short and the release was too relaxed.
    Its not fine is it is too short...that was the whole point....it is actually counterproductive. Then compounded by the relaxation.

    If Drakeford had announced at least a month, then conditional on the data, followed by regional tiers, it would have been very sensible and what rest of UK should have done at the time.

    It was the have your cake and eat it message...just one extra week over half term is all we need, then we can be free.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,288

    The years of right-wing derision of wind farms, energy-saving appliances and other "green crap" pushed by the lefties and eco-nuts. All forgotten, now that we are apparently leading the world in renewable energy.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1334742994470248450
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    The 2 week fire-break was fine, however it was too short and the release was too relaxed.
    And allowed huge numbes of people to travel to Wales to shop 'til they dropped from locked-down Bristol and the West Midlands.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,717

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
    Other half?

    Other 99% more like.
    Funnily enough I thought about that as I was typing it Philip. I said 'Other half' because it is the saying, but thought how silly it was. I suspect 99% might still be a bit generous. In my department we had the son of a Lord (now a Lord), son of a Bishop, and son of a Middle Eastern Ambassador. A true cross section of society.

    As a Secondary school boy who moved to a Grammar School to do his A levels and then Uni I did feel out of place.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,897
    edited December 2020

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    All one's years are formative years.

    Where I went, the whole "born to rule" vibe just wasn't there.

    And thirdly, nomenklaturas gonna nomenk, irrespective of secondary education arrangements. Donald Trump Jr did not attend Eton, and that didn't prevent him from turning into Donald Trump Jr. Ditto Vasily Iosifovich Stalin.
    Yes but the early years are on balance more formative. Of course the likes of Eton don't imbue everybody who attends with a feeling of superiority. Likewise a person can obtain that without going anywhere near such institutions. Tons of examples of both of those. But as generalizations go, "attendance at Eton and ilk net net increases the level of born to rule sentiment in this world" is imo defensible and not necessarily indicative of prejudice.
    Isn't the Born to Rule problem more about Oxford University than Eton (based on Prime Ministers and perhaps Cabinet Ministers)?
    What about those who Think They're Born To Rule But Never Do So Have A Grudge Against The Other Place For The Rest Of Their Lives That's So Bad They Even Sound Like Anti Vaxxers Some Of The Time?
    Speak for yourself; I went to Yorkshire :smiley: .

    It's South of Birmingham - grudges are allowed.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Ireland seems to be going the same way. Vaccination certificates are seductive cover for a national ID card and database.
    ID cards are an area where the British approach is quite distinct. I live in Spain where everyone has to have them but they are also extremely useful. I cannot understand why they are viewed so negatively in the UK. It's almost as if a lot of people have something to hide!
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    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
    I've come across many crass public schoolers in my time too. OTOH, my best friend for a few years in my 20s was a real posho who'd been to Eton. He was just a lovely person.
    As a lad I was a member of the Eton Manor boys club in Hackney. As the name implies, it had connections with Eton although most members were scruffy-arsed eastenders like me. When I was 17 I got on one of the club's summer jollies, a week around Greece in a minibus. I was one of five grammar school boys from the club, there were five lads from Eton, and a couple of teachers, one of them also from Eton. We all got on fine. It was a very happy trip and nobody appeared remotely interested in or bothered by social difference or educational background.

    Maybe that's why I just don't get these public/grammar/comprehensive school prejudices.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,946
    I imagine the President's irrational behaviour won't have done the Democrats much harm.

    Just reading about the shenanigans at Eton. With 20 Ex Tory PM's and the bonkers half of the Windsors should we be surprised?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    Scott_xP said:

    The years of right-wing derision of wind farms, energy-saving appliances and other "green crap" pushed by the lefties and eco-nuts. All forgotten, now that we are apparently leading the world in renewable energy.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1334742994470248450
    “However, the absence of supply chain protections in Scotland and the wider UK have consistently undermined our ability to compete with Government owned and Government supported yards outside and inside the European Union."

    Now Brussels, about that level playing field...
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    ...
    The use of "education" in quotation marks is because so many of the products of these institutions seem to be so lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency as to raise questions as to what they are learning there. Of course in terms of A level results they obviously do a good job, but that is not the sole purpose of education, or at least it shouldn't be.

    What utter nonsense. You really do have the most massive chip on your shoulder. Are you really so prejudiced by it that you seriously believe that those who went to top public schools are, as a group, more 'lacking in basic compassion, self-awareness or decency' than any other group of people on this earth?
    Why wouldn't a thorough immersion in a 'born to rule' environment during one's formative years have that effect?
    At my first job in 1976 at one of the big consultancies the intake was primarily toffs from Eton and Harrow (I'm convinced to this day I was taken on as a comptometer operator and slipped through the net). I was paid £2300 a year to start with. One of these guys was talking about the security system he had just had installed at £800 and could not grasp the fact that at £800 it would be the only thing worth stealing if it was mine.

    He also commented on another occasion on how most people had there own private income.

    He had not a clue how the other half lived.
    Oh well that's it - case closed - anecdote rules ok.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    So we are all going to reduced to the tiers we should be on then for Christmas? Not. A. Chance.
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    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,925
    edited December 2020
    felix said:

    Ireland seems to be going the same way. Vaccination certificates are seductive cover for a national ID card and database.
    ID cards are an area where the British approach is quite distinct. I live in Spain where everyone has to have them but they are also extremely useful. I cannot understand why they are viewed so negatively in the UK. It's almost as if a lot of people have something to hide!
    Yes, it's a strange one. In Germany, a country where data privacy is highly valued, nobody bats an eyelid at ID cards. Being able to identify yourself is just seen as an integral part of running a social democracy. The strong feelings they arouse in the UK seem to be more a cultural thing, like abortion in the US.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    It's almost as if games are being played..........
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    felix said:

    It's almost as if games are being played..........
    It is pantomime season....
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    The 2 week fire-break was fine, however it was too short and the release was too relaxed.
    That has been the stroy of the pandemic in just about every country. Here in Spain the figures are dropping rapidly and the madness of Xmas family gatherings has already been announced while those with sense quietly await the third wave..........at least 2 months before any significant vaccinations even start.
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    kinabalu said:

    Coronavirus cases increased in 20 of Wales’s 22 local authority areas on Thursday, with a “rising tide” of infections seen in both urban and rural areas, health minister Vaughan Gething said.

    On the back of what, 17 last week?

    The different national lockdown regimes to allow petty nationalistic point-scoring have been pathetic.
    I am surprised at your calm non-partisan analysis. Has someone hijacked your account?

    Mr Urquhart does seem rather enthusiastic as to our dropping like flies here in Wales.

    Whereas, I agree Drakeford is an idiot, I don't want to be a statistic used to prove it. For what it's worth I think the responses to Covid across the four home nations have been universally pretty piss-poor, as they have across Europe and North America.
    Why are people saying the 2 week firebreak was a bad idea?

    Surely without it the situation now would be worse than it is, no?
    Because its useless at worst and counterproductive at best as was called out at the time.

    A fortnight just isn't that long to drive down numbers. Then combine that with the fact that people party and have "last nights of freedom" before the fortnight and then have "hooray free from Covid lockdown" parties afterwards and you've achieved diddly squat apart from deeply damaging the businesses that had to shut down and throw away all their stock etc.

    But oh well, at least there was tape stopping people from buying a new kettle from a supermarket if theirs broke during the fortnight.

    Contrast with England - did it for twice as long giving time for case numbers to actually drop, then put stricter tiers in place afterwards.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    It's almost as if games are being played..........
    It is pantomime season....

    felix said:

    It's almost as if games are being played..........
    It is pantomime season....
    Oh no it isn't ...yet!
This discussion has been closed.