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In other news – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited November 2020 in General
In other news – politicalbetting.com

There’s been a lot going on recently, what with the resurgence of Covid-19, the new lockdown, the US elections and French terror attacks.  What else has been going on that might be important but which might have escaped your attention?  Lots, obviously.  Here are three things that deserve more attention than they’re getting.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • So people can post on this thread....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,265
    Even Netanyahu acknowledges Biden is President now while thanking Trump in the process

    https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1325302956363812864?s=20

    https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1325306327476867078?s=20
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020
    Quincel said:

    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.

    It's incredibly generous. I've no idea what the markets are playing at with this. He's c. 8,000 up. That's not going to reverse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    It isn't you is it? :wink:
    Mr Ed?
  • HYUFD said:
    He's spoken very warmly about Katie Hopkins in the past. Has she been opining anywhere? I know she's been banned from some platforms.
  • How long is Trump going to keep this up?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.

    It's incredibly generous. I've no idea what the markets are playing at with this. He's c. 8,000 up. That's not going to reverse.
    I've been laying Biden to win overall at 1.05 and moving it to Georgia and the Handicap 48.5 markets (same thing at this point) at 1.13 or so. And it seems to me not at all justified.
  • HYUFD said:
    Is he quoting Newt Ginrich? It's not clear.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.
  • The chlorinated chicken paragraph combines two or three issues. First, that Cameron really would have done the Brexiteers a favour by making them first decide what they wanted. Even now there is no single vision at the heart of government. Second, it might be pragmatism or it might be that Michael Gove insisted on it for welfare reasons, along with Tory-voting farmers who faced economic ruin. But third, as with Marcus Rashford this morning, if the government repeatedly sends backbenchers to defend them only to abandon positions a week later, it will eventually run out of volunteers.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    It isn't you is it? :wink:
    Mr Ed?
    Haha, sadly not.

    It might be one of those on here though that went for a Biden at well over 350 EC votes and that the Democrats would take Senate seats like Montana and South Carolina
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
  • MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    Nick was a communist in his youth.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Quincel said:

    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.

    It's incredibly generous. I've no idea what the markets are playing at with this. He's c. 8,000 up. That's not going to reverse.
    I guess, chucking my tuppence in, there are a few things. The comments from Georgia’s election official that they have seen small issues in some places but these add up in a tight election; military votes; and / or some counties use the same software that mistallied votes in Georgia. So a few things that might be guaranteed not to make it 100pc. But DYOR...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020

    HYUFD said:
    Is he quoting Newt Ginrich? It's not clear.
    He appears to be referring to some American pollster who has written an article in the Daily Express.

    Who seems to think that Biden outperformed Clinton in Philadephia when actually he underperformed her. Although he may be playing fast and loose on the difference between total votes and percentage vote.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    Nick was a communist in his youth.
    Weren’t most youth?

    (I wasn’t)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.

    It's incredibly generous. I've no idea what the markets are playing at with this. He's c. 8,000 up. That's not going to reverse.
    I guess, chucking my tuppence in, there are a few things. The comments from Georgia’s election official that they have seen small issues in some places but these add up in a tight election; military votes; and / or some counties use the same software that mistallied votes in Georgia. So a few things that might be guaranteed not to make it 100pc. But DYOR...
    I think it's purely because there's going to be a recount.

    Possibly also some people confusing the recount and the rerun in the Senate races.

    Apparently this morning they discovered an error in one of the machines, and it actually disadvantaged Biden by a couple of thousand votes!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Re topic, thanks for the header Alistair and interesting re 2 and 3. Quite frankly on 1, I can’t see how NATO will ever help Turkey out on this, especially Erdogan’s recent behaviour
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    .
    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    How much do you contribute ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    Nick was a communist in his youth.
    Which is, perhaps, forgivable. Being “unapologetic” about it, given what we know now, is absolutely not.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Ian, I think you’re a great poster, and I agree with you about the moral equivalence of Stalinism and Nazism. But I think you missed the point at which Nick said his belief in democracy had precedence over his belief in Marxism, which for me is a crucial difference between his position and that of those Marxists who see democracy as a mere tool of Capitalism.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,641
    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    A prig being a prig.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889

    HYUFD said:
    He's spoken very warmly about Katie Hopkins in the past. Has she been opining anywhere? I know she's been banned from some platforms.
    Could it be Farage?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    How much do you contribute ?
    They can manage without me, for sure.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    That insurance change sounds interesting, in a geeky way.

    On the subject of foreign elections, I was having a look over the situation in Germany. I'm sure others on here know more about it than I do, but it's curious that the CDU keep delaying their leadership election. They're currently riding high in the polls with the Greens having fallen back (change on last election):

    Union - 36 (+3)
    Green - 20 (+11)
    SPD - 15 (-6)
    AfD - 10 (-3)
    Linke - 8 (-1)
    FDP - 5 (-6)
    Others - 6 (+1)

    Just reading on Wikipedia, the formation of the grand coalition between the Union and the SPD took until March 2018. I reckon if the results are anything like the current polls, then it could be even longer in 2021-22. I can't imagine the SPD have any appetite for propping up the Union any more, and I'm not sure the Greens would want to replace them in that role. But it's hard to see any alternative.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Sadly, another item of news overlooked in the header is that Cray Valley Paper Mills are now out of the FA Cup.
  • IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    Olympic-level overreaction.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    Quincel said:

    Can anyone make a case for how Biden could at all plausibly still lose Georgia? I ask because you can get 10% or even more on Betfair betting he'll win it, and that seems awfully generous.

    It's incredibly generous. I've no idea what the markets are playing at with this. He's c. 8,000 up. That's not going to reverse.
    I guess, chucking my tuppence in, there are a few things. The comments from Georgia’s election official that they have seen small issues in some places but these add up in a tight election; military votes; and / or some counties use the same software that mistallied votes in Georgia. So a few things that might be guaranteed not to make it 100pc. But DYOR...
    I think it's purely because there's going to be a recount.

    Possibly also some people confusing the recount and the rerun in the Senate races.

    Apparently this morning they discovered an error in one of the machines, and it actually disadvantaged Biden by a couple of thousand votes!</blockquote

    Ah, saw the headline. Did they work out who those votes were for?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    How much do you contribute ?
    They can manage without me, for sure.
    Just curious, as I was considering sending them a contribution.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    Olympic-level overreaction.
    Perhaps. I don’t really care what you think of me. I saw Eastern Europe as it was in the early 1980s and have thanked my lucky stars for not having been born there ever since.

    What is the point of supporting a charity supposedly concerned about animal suffering that employs someone so recklessly carefree about human misery?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    No one cares what he said on this forum except you. Trying to bring the outside world into PB will reduce its quality as inciteful posters may take fright. This is clearly counter productive and at worst downright malicious 'doxxing' other users is a terrible precedent. I think the admins should take note of this.
    I agree, and "inciteful" instead of "insightful" is masterful, albeit no doubt accidental!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    IanB2 said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    Olympic-level overreaction.
    Perhaps. I don’t really care what you think of me. I saw Eastern Europe as it was in the early 1980s and have thanked my lucky stars for not having been born there ever since.

    What is the point of supporting a charity supposedly concerned about animal suffering that employs someone so recklessly carefree about human misery?
    Why is it a necessary condition for someone who is concerned about non-human animal suffering to also be concerned about human suffering? Separate things, surely.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1325340524170113025?s=19

    Leoffler is the Martha McSally of Georgia.

    We could see a split result between the two run offs.

    Perdue has got to hope that his coronavirus insider trading isn't too heavily tied to Leoffler's coronavirus insider trading as Georgia surges into its third wave.

    Of I was a Georgia politician with and election due in early January I'd deffo be wanting my state party to have built up a robust battle tested vote by mail operation about now.
  • IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    What an utterly pathetic and sad thing to do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Can't you recognise the Euro-communists as a distinct group to the Stalinists etc?

    Surely CIWF is worth supporting in its own right?
  • Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    "Colourful phrases", I wonder if you'd use the same defence about a Labour MP, I bet not.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    No one cares what he said on this forum except you. Trying to bring the outside world into PB will reduce its quality as inciteful posters may take fright. This is clearly counter productive and at worst downright malicious 'doxxing' other users is a terrible precedent. I think the admins should take note of this.
    I agree, and "inciteful" instead of "insightful" is masterful, albeit no doubt accidental!
    Probably best not to contribute to any charity or cause, however worthy, because it's extremely unlikely that every one doesn't employ somebody within their organisation who holds views that one might find unpalatable, albeit completely unrelated to the cause being advanced.
  • Publicity Shy Paddy Power are paying out on a Biden victory.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    edited November 2020
    tlg86 said:

    That insurance change sounds interesting, in a geeky way.

    On the subject of foreign elections, I was having a look over the situation in Germany. I'm sure others on here know more about it than I do, but it's curious that the CDU keep delaying their leadership election. They're currently riding high in the polls with the Greens having fallen back (change on last election):

    Union - 36 (+3)
    Green - 20 (+11)
    SPD - 15 (-6)
    AfD - 10 (-3)
    Linke - 8 (-1)
    FDP - 5 (-6)
    Others - 6 (+1)

    Just reading on Wikipedia, the formation of the grand coalition between the Union and the SPD took until March 2018. I reckon if the results are anything like the current polls, then it could be even longer in 2021-22. I can't imagine the SPD have any appetite for propping up the Union any more, and I'm not sure the Greens would want to replace them in that role. But it's hard to see any alternative.

    The best person to pull off negotiating a CDU/CSU/Green coalition government would be the current incumbent... (She's 12 years younger than Biden, so why not?)
  • IanB2 said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    Olympic-level overreaction.
    Perhaps. I don’t really care what you think of me. I saw Eastern Europe as it was in the early 1980s and have thanked my lucky stars for not having been born there ever since.

    What is the point of supporting a charity supposedly concerned about animal suffering that employs someone so recklessly carefree about human misery?
    It wasn't a judgement on you, just on what you're doing right now. Probably still makes no difference to you, but just so we're clear I'm not condemning you.
  • Sod Britain's best pollster, what about Britain's best cat impersonator?

    https://twitter.com/MhairiHunter/status/1325448970081095681?s=20
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    What an utterly pathetic and sad thing to do.
    So be it, I don’t care.

    If someone popped up and declared themself an “unapologetic former Nazi”, how would you react?

    Then consider the double standard.

    Former communist, fair enough, we all make mistakes, particularly when young. “Unapologetic” puts you beyond the pale IMHO.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    What an utterly pathetic and sad thing to do.
    So be it, I don’t care.

    If someone popped up and declared themself an “unapologetic former Nazi”, how would you react?

    Then consider the double standard.

    Former communist, fair enough, we all make mistakes, particularly when young. “Unapologetic” puts you beyond the pale IMHO.
    Just think how the letter will come across.

    "Miss, miss, he said he was an unapologetic former communist on this website I read".

    Who gives a crap? I'm betting he does excellent work for the charity.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Brexit was a kick up the arse for those who had been at the top for the last 20 years or so - continuity Blair. They needed to know people didn't necessarily agree with them, but there was no choice - LibLabCon as they used to say - three cheeks of the same arse under Cam, EdM and Clegg.

    You mean the people who presided over our political marginalisation within Europe?
    Those who thought it a good idea to import cheap labour to the benefit of the rich at the expense of the poor
    Migrants are people who choose to move, not objects that are imported.
    I'm sure that those who were funnelled into the bottom end jobs on arriving here and then discarded like used Kleenex when they had the temerity to learn enough English to ask for a pay rise, will appreciate the difference.
    Not sure of the point of your post. Sounds like you're angry at something, but I'm not even sure what.
    The point is that immigration is being used to abuse the immigrants as well. As well as suppressing wages.

    Call me an old fashioned neon-fascist-capitalist-imperlialist-ensalver-of-the-oppressed, but a reasonable response to shortage of labour at price x could suggest that x is a bit on the low side...

    We should be automating low paid jobs out of existence, not turning humans into low price automation. Progress, I think they call it.

    Due to the comparative advantage of moving to low cost locations (China etc) being eroded by the disgusting behaviour of the workers*, simply dumping your manufacturing abroad is no longer automatically super profitable.

    The socio-legal-political environment has a major effect on productivity. NHS, Schools, reliable legal system etc etc.
    So while it is still cheaper per worker, the actual productivity per worker for skilled work is remarkably constant, around the world.

    So how to cheat on this?

    Well, if you employee people for x times more than they would have earned in their home country - sounds awesome. Since they don't speak the language, they won't know their rights. Yet. A year or 2 down the line, their is a risk they will learn some English and realise how shit the deal they are getting is.... But, hey, there are always more suckers.....

    *Asking for a getting pay rises, working conditions that include actual health and safety etc.
  • Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    It was also a plagiarised bit from an Guardian article....
  • https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    tlg86 said:

    That insurance change sounds interesting, in a geeky way.

    On the subject of foreign elections, I was having a look over the situation in Germany. I'm sure others on here know more about it than I do, but it's curious that the CDU keep delaying their leadership election. They're currently riding high in the polls with the Greens having fallen back (change on last election):

    Union - 36 (+3)
    Green - 20 (+11)
    SPD - 15 (-6)
    AfD - 10 (-3)
    Linke - 8 (-1)
    FDP - 5 (-6)
    Others - 6 (+1)

    Just reading on Wikipedia, the formation of the grand coalition between the Union and the SPD took until March 2018. I reckon if the results are anything like the current polls, then it could be even longer in 2021-22. I can't imagine the SPD have any appetite for propping up the Union any more, and I'm not sure the Greens would want to replace them in that role. But it's hard to see any alternative.

    The best person to pull off negotiating a CDU/CSU/Green coalition government would be the current incumbent... (She's 12 years younger than Biden, so why not?)
    That's why I think it's interesting that the Union leadership election keeps getting delayed. If they do elect a new leader, it might not help them in the polls.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    He cheated himself out of it. If he hadn't suppressed his own vote he might have actually won.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2020

    Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    "Colourful phrases", I wonder if you'd use the same defence about a Labour MP, I bet not.
    Yes I would. You see I believe in freedom of speech

    Edit: but isn’t it interesting that - instead of trying to defend your position - you choose to accuse me of double standards instead.

    And yet I’m sure I saw your taking a high and mighty tone with @Casino_Royale earlier on what is the right and proper way to behave
  • https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    Publicity Shy Paddy Power are paying out on a Biden victory.

    Surely bf can’t be fair behind.

    They’re the same company!
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    "Colourful phrases", I wonder if you'd use the same defence about a Labour MP, I bet not.
    Yes I would. You see I believe in freedom of speech
    He says racist things, I'll call them out.

    Of course we could go over the other racist things he's said, like attacking Obama's heritage but it doesn't matter as the Democrats haven't forgotten.
  • https://twitter.com/MatthewStadlen/status/1325456951967363074

    What was the point in this argument, do some Tories want to explain this piece of political masterstroke?
  • ping said:

    Publicity Shy Paddy Power are paying out on a Biden victory.

    Surely bf can’t be fair behind.

    They’re the same company!
    I think they are only paying on the main market not any of the secondary markets.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    If somebody is an "(unapologetic) FORMER communist", doesn't that say something about what they ultimately think of the political ideology?

    Basically they held their views at the time, and for entirely good reasons (and therefore they don't apologise for that). But passage of time and experience have suggested to them that those strongly held youthful ideals are perhaps (typically understated!) not something that coincide well with reality. And therefore the views are "former".

    But why somebody should have to apologise for holding views in good faith and good reasons, is besides me.

    You'd struggle to find too many people holding Nazi views for benevolently idealistic reasons.

    Should somebody apologise for liking the song "Imagine" and the message behind it? Even if believing it to be utterly unrealistic.
  • https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    My faith in Dellie Wellie rather took a blow when he solemnly pronounced that Boris Johnson would lead us into a 'Golden Age'. (Although in fairness he later recanted.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    To be added?
    It will be interesting to see how many of the "fearless contrarians" will go down this path.
  • Has Matthew Goodwin claimed the election was stolen yet
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    And yet the FBPE crowd have spent the last four years telling us how Leave stole the referendum. And trying to tie the result up in the courts.

    Let's not forget the huge crowd who have spent years telling us how Putin rigged the last election for Trump. Where was their respect for the democratic process?

    What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is precedent for not respecting election results and it doesn't come from the Trumpsters.

    When you lose, you need to accept the loss gracefully. That goes for those on all sides of the political divide.

  • kyf_100 said:

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    And yet the FBPE crowd have spent the last four years telling us how Leave stole the referendum. And trying to tie the result up in the courts.

    Let's not forget the huge crowd who have spent years telling us how Putin rigged the last election for Trump. Where was their respect for the democratic process?

    What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is precedent for not respecting election results and it doesn't come from the Trumpsters.

    When you lose, you need to accept the loss gracefully. That goes for those on all sides of the political divide.

    Brexit was won by the Leave side, I preferred a soft Brexit but I also was allowed my democratic right to argue for a second referendum.

    Trump won in 2016, Hilary lost. The electoral system that let him win is stupid but that's the game.

    Trump lost in 2019 and Biden won decisively.
  • President Trump is morphing into Kanye West, when Taylor Swift won that award.

    He's having a breakdown right before our eyes, but don't worry he only has the nuclear button for another ten weeks.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    What an utterly pathetic and sad thing to do.
    So be it, I don’t care.

    If someone popped up and declared themself an “unapologetic former Nazi”, how would you react?

    Then consider the double standard.

    Former communist, fair enough, we all make mistakes, particularly when young. “Unapologetic” puts you beyond the pale IMHO.
    Just think how the letter will come across.

    "Miss, miss, he said he was an unapologetic former communist on this website I read".

    Who gives a crap? I'm betting he does excellent work for the charity.

    Perhaps. Like Tyndall and Casino before me, maybe I have over-reacted.
    Like the former, I will now give the site the miss the rest of the evening.

    If I feel the same way tomorrow, I will follow up with a letter to the charity.

    I have my own, strongly personal, reasons for reacting badly when someone pops up here to describe themselves as an unapologetic former communist. I don’t need you to understand; I am just grateful to have been born into a country where whatever I might happen to say and think doesn’t immediately condemn me to a miserable and considerably shorter life.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    The burka thing is a good example of woke in action I guess. Wokeism is at root a direct attack on liberalism. It is much more than "being polite" and Nick tried to persuade us earlier. Johnson writes a defense of liberalism, includes an aside which is not particularly funny, and is pounced on for that comment in isolation with no context.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited November 2020
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MrEd said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    My letter to CIWF is in draft. Palmer has hours to show some contrition for his glib ignorance of the misery to which his ideology condemned millions of lives during the previous century.

    Blimey, what have I missed here?
    I have just emailed CIWF reaffirming my support for their commitment to relieving animal suffering but making it quite clear that I won’t support their charity while they employ someone who is so glib about the death, torture and misery that their ideology inflicted upon so many during the last century.

    I’ll be writing to them in the morning terminating my annual donation and explaining precisely why, in the absence of some grown up contrition from our home grown “unapologetic” communist on this site.
    What an utterly pathetic and sad thing to do.
    So be it, I don’t care.

    If someone popped up and declared themself an “unapologetic former Nazi”, how would you react?

    Then consider the double standard.

    Former communist, fair enough, we all make mistakes, particularly when young. “Unapologetic” puts you beyond the pale IMHO.
    [deleted]
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    That insurance change sounds interesting, in a geeky way.

    On the subject of foreign elections, I was having a look over the situation in Germany. I'm sure others on here know more about it than I do, but it's curious that the CDU keep delaying their leadership election. They're currently riding high in the polls with the Greens having fallen back (change on last election):

    Union - 36 (+3)
    Green - 20 (+11)
    SPD - 15 (-6)
    AfD - 10 (-3)
    Linke - 8 (-1)
    FDP - 5 (-6)
    Others - 6 (+1)

    Just reading on Wikipedia, the formation of the grand coalition between the Union and the SPD took until March 2018. I reckon if the results are anything like the current polls, then it could be even longer in 2021-22. I can't imagine the SPD have any appetite for propping up the Union any more, and I'm not sure the Greens would want to replace them in that role. But it's hard to see any alternative.

    The best person to pull off negotiating a CDU/CSU/Green coalition government would be the current incumbent... (She's 12 years younger than Biden, so why not?)
    That's why I think it's interesting that the Union leadership election keeps getting delayed. If they do elect a new leader, it might not help them in the polls.
    Faking her own political death to head off the attempt to move against her in 2018 is looking like just another tactical manoeuvre.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited November 2020
    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s

    How much does he make them pay to stand?
  • Happy Birthday to Nerys Hughes, 79 today.
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Brexit was a kick up the arse for those who had been at the top for the last 20 years or so - continuity Blair. They needed to know people didn't necessarily agree with them, but there was no choice - LibLabCon as they used to say - three cheeks of the same arse under Cam, EdM and Clegg.

    You mean the people who presided over our political marginalisation within Europe?
    Those who thought it a good idea to import cheap labour to the benefit of the rich at the expense of the poor
    Migrants are people who choose to move, not objects that are imported.
    I'm sure that those who were funnelled into the bottom end jobs on arriving here and then discarded like used Kleenex when they had the temerity to learn enough English to ask for a pay rise, will appreciate the difference.
    Not sure of the point of your post. Sounds like you're angry at something, but I'm not even sure what.
    The point is that immigration is being used to abuse the immigrants as well. As well as suppressing wages.

    Call me an old fashioned neon-fascist-capitalist-imperlialist-ensalver-of-the-oppressed, but a reasonable response to shortage of labour at price x could suggest that x is a bit on the low side...

    We should be automating low paid jobs out of existence, not turning humans into low price automation. Progress, I think they call it.

    Due to the comparative advantage of moving to low cost locations (China etc) being eroded by the disgusting behaviour of the workers*, simply dumping your manufacturing abroad is no longer automatically super profitable.

    The socio-legal-political environment has a major effect on productivity. NHS, Schools, reliable legal system etc etc.
    So while it is still cheaper per worker, the actual productivity per worker for skilled work is remarkably constant, around the world.

    So how to cheat on this?

    Well, if you employee people for x times more than they would have earned in their home country - sounds awesome. Since they don't speak the language, they won't know their rights. Yet. A year or 2 down the line, their is a risk they will learn some English and realise how shit the deal they are getting is.... But, hey, there are always more suckers.....

    *Asking for a getting pay rises, working conditions that include actual health and safety etc.
    Ok, I don't really find much objectionable in that. You've identified some key problems.
    There are several solutions that present themselves, probably the most effective being unions educating workers on their existing rights. This is the place where I think unions come into their own, which is why I'm a member of Prospect (chosen mainly cos it's politically neutral).
  • Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s

    How much does he make them pay to stand?
    Any discussions going on within the Liberal party as to whether their continued support of the lockdown policy is the right thing? Surely the orange book wing are not happy with the civil liberties aspect of all this?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    HYUFD said:
    Twitter are being very kind to him here with "disputed".

    The true and objective word is "bollocks".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s

    How much does he make them pay to stand?
    Any discussions going on within the Liberal party as to whether their continued support of the lockdown policy is the right thing? Surely the orange book wing are not happy with the civil liberties aspect of all this?
    Not that I am aware of.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.

    No rule of 6?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020

    kyf_100 said:

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    And yet the FBPE crowd have spent the last four years telling us how Leave stole the referendum. And trying to tie the result up in the courts.

    Let's not forget the huge crowd who have spent years telling us how Putin rigged the last election for Trump. Where was their respect for the democratic process?

    What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is precedent for not respecting election results and it doesn't come from the Trumpsters.

    When you lose, you need to accept the loss gracefully. That goes for those on all sides of the political divide.

    Brexit was won by the Leave side, I preferred a soft Brexit but I also was allowed my democratic right to argue for a second referendum.

    Trump won in 2016, Hilary lost. The electoral system that let him win is stupid but that's the game.

    Trump lost in 2019 and Biden won decisively.
    I would just argue that there ARE legitimate arguments on the theme. Elections ARE rigged/stolen/improperly influenced/not free and fair. Just because an election happens and has a decisive result on the basis of votes counted does not mean that it is legitimate. We spend huge amounts of money, and implement many laws to ensure that we can have confidence in the integrity of the vote. Because once the votes are cast there is not much you can do about it. Because the trouble is that even if many of the more covert forms of rigging elections are true and legitimate, they cannot in most cases result in the election being overturned. Or at least not short of completely re-running the whole thing. But it doesn't mean you have to be happy about it.

    However if you are going to argue the point, you have to do so from a position of evidence and sanity. Trump's claims about this election are clearly bear no relation to this. As has been repeated over and over again. If Trump has serious evidence of widespread voter fraud generating hundreds of thousands or even millions of fake votes then he has the right to present and test this in the courts. But he doesn't. Alleging widespread voter fraud on the belief that you should have won just undermines faith in the democratic process. And ultimately this will be to the detriment of GOP voters who will be disheartened from turning out in future.
  • President Trump is morphing into Kanye West, when Taylor Swift won that award.

    He's having a breakdown right before our eyes, but don't worry he only has the nuclear button for another ten weeks.

    His niece has written in today's Observer. Says he wont cope with the loss. Will be breakdown territory.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    ping said:

    Publicity Shy Paddy Power are paying out on a Biden victory.

    Surely bf can’t be fair behind.

    They’re the same company!
    I think they are only paying on the main market not any of the secondary markets.
    when Paddy Power pay up it's their own money. On betfair exchange they are the middleman so i can understand them being much more cautious.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited November 2020
    RobD said:

    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.

    No rule of 6?
    He is allowing "organized activities" to have these many people. Also, I believe you can go and meet up with people in the pub. I think upto 4 others from different households.
  • ping said:

    Publicity Shy Paddy Power are paying out on a Biden victory.

    Surely bf can’t be fair behind.

    They’re the same company!
    I think they are only paying on the main market not any of the secondary markets.
    when Paddy Power pay up it's their own money. On betfair exchange they are the middleman so i can understand them being much more cautious.
    Indeed although this isn't Florida 2000 or anything close to it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    RobD said:

    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.

    No rule of 6?
    He is allowing "organized activities" to have these many people. Also, I believe you can go and meet up with people in the pub. I think upto 4 others from different households.
    Strict restrictions for two weeks, then a free-for-all? Even Macron adopted the rule of 6.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s

    Assuming they take place (I suspect they will), the 2021 round of local elections will be the biggest test of public opinion since the 2019 GE.

    In London, we have the delayed Mayoral election. I imagine any Reform candidate is going to struggle in the capital and on all known polling evidence, Sadiq Khan will be re-elected possibly on the first ballot.

    We have the County Council elections in the remaining 24 county authorities, 21 of which are run by Conservatives alone and two of the other three have the Conservatives in coalition - only Cumbria is not run by the Conservatives.

    The seats were last contested at the height of Theresa May's popularity (those words seem fine separately but together they seem odd) in May 2017 and the Party made sweeping gains winning 38% of the vote nationally. I would argue a repetition of that performance is going to be challenging and there is scope for Labour, LD, Green and perhaps even Reform gains at the governing party's expense.

    There are also a number of Unitary Councils such as Cornwall having elections as well as a number of Mayoral contests outside London and the PCC elections in England and Wales.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited November 2020
    Liverpool are going to win the Man City match 6-5 or lose it 9 nil.

    Klopp's playing all four of the fab four, Firmino, Salah, Mane, and Jota.
  • Liverpool are going to win the Man City match 6-5 or lose it 9 nil.

    Klopp's playing all four of the fab four, Firmino, Salah, Mane, and Jota.

    Thanks for the tip. I just popped £2 on a 0-0 draw ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    Stocky said:

    https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1325406005300170752

    Beyond the pronouns, what is "woke" about this?

    Woke is just a term used to be racist or sexist, or generally horrible that is still acceptable.

    No, it really isn't although that's what its defenders (almost always) say in its defence.

    Woke is a warped Marxist theory that's transmuted from academia into the real world and views everyone through a complex hierarchical and intersectional power dynamic where we are all classified by race, gender and sexuality and bracketed (and treated) as relative oppressors or victims accordingly. It uses this as a starting point to undercut some of the established values and historical foundations of our society in the hope that by breaking it down something better (Marxist utopia) that they believe will take its place. It cleverly condemns its opponents as racists and sexists to enforce its dogma and silence dissent. It's a big reason why they say "don't expect minorities to educate you on racism" - because they fear they wouldn't be on message; just look at how they attack those who are not - and instead say, please read my favoured best-selling culturally marxist book and 'educate yourself'.

    Example: an unWoke person would be concerned that some Black people still experience some racial discrimination in the UK and would want to talk to them about it to understand it and change it. They wouldn't take a knee, tear down statues, or talk about White Privilege. They would emphasis the common-bonds they have of shared Britishness, they would demonstrate empathy they would talk about fairness, and they would talk about opening up opportunities for them and increasing role models. They would try harder to think about things from their point of view in future and bring everyone of all backgrounds, races and politics along with them. They wouldn't plaster what they're doing all over social media out of insecurity narcissism.

    A Woke person would say either you buy into the whole lot, or you're suspect.. or worse.
    Great post CR.
    I don't think it's a particularly great post to be honest and seems to contradict a lot of what he says when he just mindlessly calls others woke.

    I don't think anyone here fits into that view of "wokeness" - and I am about 99% sure if you asked the average person what woke means, they would not say that.

    For me what being woke is used for is just today's politically correct, it's saying something you know is offensive but you feel like this gives you cover to say it without being challenged. You have an opinion, air it and we will debate it. End of story.
    Who's defending saying anything offensive?

    I would challenge anyone who said something racist, but I won't go down on one knee, or label myself and others as having White Privilege.

    That might get some initial attention, or make sense in an academic thesis, but, when translated into the real world, divides far more people than it unites.
    It's been said before that challenging the disgraceful comments Johnson has made about Islam, or Obama, makes you "woke" and "PC". I am not saying that's you, I am saying your definition is not shared by most/many, especially and including the MSM at large who people look to for their definition.
    I think that the problem is that Johnson is was journalist with a live of colourful phrases.

    The comment about Muslim women in full burkas looting like “letterboxes” was in an article defending their right to do so.

    But people have chosen to focus on his perceived insult to Muslim people rather than his defence of their rights.

    And yet they idolise Macron who had banned the things.

    Funny old world isn’t it when what people say matters more than what they do
    "Colourful phrases", I wonder if you'd use the same defence about a Labour MP, I bet not.
    Yes I would. You see I believe in freedom of speech
    He says racist things, I'll call them out.

    Of course we could go over the other racist things he's said, like attacking Obama's heritage but it doesn't matter as the Democrats haven't forgotten.
    Still not a defence of your position just an attack on someone else. This is very revealing
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    RobD said:

    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.

    No rule of 6?
    He is allowing "organized activities" to have these many people. Also, I believe you can go and meet up with people in the pub. I think upto 4 others from different households.
    Sounds civilised. That's pretty much Tier 1 isn't it?
  • stodge said:

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1325456545690361856

    I wonder if what we see in the 2020s is a return to the 2000s, Tories and Labour hovering around the mid 30s

    Assuming they take place (I suspect they will), the 2021 round of local elections will be the biggest test of public opinion since the 2019 GE.

    In London, we have the delayed Mayoral election. I imagine any Reform candidate is going to struggle in the capital and on all known polling evidence, Sadiq Khan will be re-elected possibly on the first ballot.

    We have the County Council elections in the remaining 24 county authorities, 21 of which are run by Conservatives alone and two of the other three have the Conservatives in coalition - only Cumbria is not run by the Conservatives.

    The seats were last contested at the height of Theresa May's popularity (those words seem fine separately but together they seem odd) in May 2017 and the Party made sweeping gains winning 38% of the vote nationally. I would argue a repetition of that performance is going to be challenging and there is scope for Labour, LD, Green and perhaps even Reform gains at the governing party's expense.

    There are also a number of Unitary Councils such as Cornwall having elections as well as a number of Mayoral contests outside London and the PCC elections in England and Wales.
    Could the 2021 Locals be an all postal ballot affair?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Scott_xP said:
    It's the most difficult change of administration in Washington for the UK since Clinton beat George HW Bush in 1992. Wisely, this time, the Conservative Party has kept out of it but Boris's past relationship with Trump (which is predicated as much on realpolitik as any real commonality) is going to make life a little difficult for the Conservative Government and an incoming Biden administration.

    Last time, Clinton picked up and ran with the Northern Ireland Peace Process and that helped with Major (whose role in making it happen isn't always appreciated) though the real warmth returned with the election of Blair.

    For better or worse, the UK Government is going to live with a Biden administration and of course vice versa so realpolitik will ensure that whatever private issues may exist, the public rhetoric will be warm even if that warmth looks a little "forced".
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kyf_100 said:

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1324802407562358785

    Another one to add to the crazies list and to ignore when they ever their articles get posted again.

    And yet the FBPE crowd have spent the last four years telling us how Leave stole the referendum. And trying to tie the result up in the courts.

    Let's not forget the huge crowd who have spent years telling us how Putin rigged the last election for Trump. Where was their respect for the democratic process?

    What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is precedent for not respecting election results and it doesn't come from the Trumpsters.

    When you lose, you need to accept the loss gracefully. That goes for those on all sides of the political divide.

    Well said.

    I had an argument with Kamski about exactly this point yesterday who, for some reason, didn't want to discuss it. It's also being quietly forgotten that HRC would happily have gone to court to try and overturn the result to get herself "elected" and many of her advisers were suggesting she should.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited November 2020
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April.

    Latest NHS Wales figures show 1,344 people are being treated in hospital for Covid-19 while 54 of the 163 critical care patients have the virus - with the intensive care occupancy rate beyond Wales' usual 152-bed capacity.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54855015

    But its ok, Drakeford is going to let people gather in groups of upto 15 indoors and 30 outdoors in a few days.

    No rule of 6?
    He is allowing "organized activities" to have these many people. Also, I believe you can go and meet up with people in the pub. I think upto 4 others from different households.
    Sounds civilised. That's pretty much Tier 1 isn't it?
    It isn't...but still even if it was, they are jumping straight from "lockdown" to lowest tier across the whole of the country, despite having a number of areas that are in the top 10 in the UK for COVID.
This discussion has been closed.