That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Have I missed anything apart from the odd general election, leadership elections, pandemic, POTUS campaign and TSE going over to the dark side of pineapple pizza?
There's been a minor change in our trading relationships with Europe that some are quite exercised about.
Yes I had noticed that David. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find east European staff to pick pineapples from my hothouses for the new Auchentennach Pizza Extravanganza ....
Have you run out of Liberals to put in your pies? We are getting scarce.
There are shockingly thin on the ground so we have decided to re-brand the product as a niche market high end delight for the gastronomic cognoscenti.
Nice to see you back, Jack. Will you be stopping or are you just out for Halloween?
I have the new Rolls Royce Tandem Broomstick on order for Mrs Jack and I but for some time but unfortunately the lockdown in Derby has scuppered my plans. Spooky ....
Jack, whilst it's good to see you back again, I think you're losing your touch somewhat ... first there's no lockdown in Derby affecting Rolls Royce. Second the R-R plant in question manufactures aero engines, not broomsticks.
What do you think *drives* the broomstick in question?
Have I missed anything apart from the odd general election, leadership elections, pandemic, POTUS campaign and TSE going over to the dark side of pineapple pizza?
There's been a minor change in our trading relationships with Europe that some are quite exercised about.
Yes I had noticed that David. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find east European staff to pick pineapples from my hothouses for the new Auchentennach Pizza Extravanganza ....
Have you run out of Liberals to put in your pies? We are getting scarce.
There are shockingly thin on the ground so we have decided to re-brand the product as a niche market high end delight for the gastronomic cognoscenti.
Nice to see you back, Jack. Will you be stopping or are you just out for Halloween?
I have the new Rolls Royce Tandem Broomstick on order for Mrs Jack and I but for some time but unfortunately the lockdown in Derby has scuppered my plans. Spooky ....
Jack, whilst it's good to see you back again, I think you're losing your touch somewhat ... first there's no lockdown in Derby affecting Rolls Royce. Second the R-R plant in question manufactures aero engines, not broomsticks.
What do you think *drives* the broomstick in question?
RR exited the broomstick market in the last restructuring.
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Would be a mercy for all. Most PB Bumpkins seem to think London starts and ends a mile radius from Nelson's Column.
God God, Man! A mile North of Nelson's column the savages paint their faces blue......
Fuckssake he's defending Corbyn AGAIN. "No individual findings against Jeremy Corbyn"
Well he is an ex lawyer, is he wrong on that point ? I have not read the full report.
He can have people expelled for bringing the party into disrepute. "They're all shit" in the report doesn't mean that he can't remove them all individually because it didn't say "x,y,z are shit"
The law doesn't come into it. Hard for Corbyn to challenge his expulsion legally on "disrepute" grounds. The party has just been brought to its knees because of him.
The law does come into it , whatever you say.Especially if you are basing any decisions on the Equalities act 2010.
"Bringing the Party into Disrepute" is subjective not legal and objective.
There's a degree of subjectivity about individual edge cases, but it has a well-defined and well understood meaning , and there's a stack of judicial decisions a mile high to show that the courts are happy to get stuck in and decide the edge cases.
This isn't an edge case. Lets assume for a minute that SKS did as I asked and has suspended Corbyn, Milne, Murphy and Formby as starters for 10. Lets further assume that they get expelled for bringing the party into disrepute.
What is their defence? That a massive embarrassing EHRC report which found that collectively they had overseen illegality isn't sufficient to argue that the party is in disrepute?
The betting markets currently rate Biden's chance of winning Michigan as almost exactly the same as Trump's chance of winning Texas (odds of around 1.35 in both cases).
Strange, is it not?
Very strange. I don't think even the Republicans believe they have a hope in MI.
And the Democrats have a very good chance indeed in Texas. I'd say it's almost a coin toss.
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Would be a mercy for all. Most PB Bumpkins seem to think London starts and ends a mile radius from Nelson's Column.
God God, Man! A mile North of Nelson's column the savages paint their faces blue......
You should see the barbarians on the other side of the water...
Have I missed anything apart from the odd general election, leadership elections, pandemic, POTUS campaign and TSE going over to the dark side of pineapple pizza?
There's been a minor change in our trading relationships with Europe that some are quite exercised about.
Yes I had noticed that David. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find east European staff to pick pineapples from my hothouses for the new Auchentennach Pizza Extravanganza ....
Have you run out of Liberals to put in your pies? We are getting scarce.
There are shockingly thin on the ground so we have decided to re-brand the product as a niche market high end delight for the gastronomic cognoscenti.
Nice to see you back, Jack. Will you be stopping or are you just out for Halloween?
I have the new Rolls Royce Tandem Broomstick on order for Mrs Jack and I but for some time but unfortunately the lockdown in Derby has scuppered my plans. Spooky ....
Jack, whilst it's good to see you back again, I think you're losing your touch somewhat ... first there's no lockdown in Derby affecting Rolls Royce. Second the R-R plant in question manufactures aero engines, not broomsticks.
What sort of engine would you expect a magnificent flying broomstick to have but a wonderful Rolls Royce magical Merlin Mk XXII aero engine. This is reality you know, not Hogwarts !! ...
@HYUFD we've already discussed all those SurveyMonkey polls from yesterday. It would be good if you didn't spam up the thread with an unnecessary amount of Twitter links if you can help it.
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Threads should be much more manageable now.
Agreed on that. Scotland is another topic that the haters like to chat shit about. I never talk about Wales because I don't know anything about the place. I've never even slept a night on Welsh soil.
I had a lifetime interest in the astronomy of the solar system until you rained on my parade by posting that.
I also heard this a thousand times from left-leaning students in my undergraduate days: "I have a feeling this apartheid stuff entails some real injustice, and I was thinking of a campaign to rename the JCR privy after one of the key players. But then I thought naah, never been closer to Africa than Southend-on-Sea. Best leave it."
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
If the law was applied equally to all groups then yes you'd have a point, but it is quite clear that they aren't.
For example the professor at Cambridge that tweeted that "white lives don't matter" and "every day I resist the urge to kneecap white men" had no action taken against her.
If the target of the tweets had been a protected minority then she would have been investigated by the police, no doubt about it.
As for the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, it's clear they've "stirred up hatred" since a result of them getting published they got machine gunned to death and now people are getting beheaded in France left, right and centre over them.
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
The problem, as I see it, is that "stirring up hatred" can mean different things to different people. Ask many Muslims around the world - they would say, yes, Charlie H does stir up hatred.
Part of the problem here is that Western world is largely post-religious - in the sense that people from times past would see it. Yes, plenty of people bothering God etc. But it isn't the core of our lives anymore. So we don't *get it*.
It is incredibly hard to understand the mindset - this is one where religion and life are tightly bound together. a perceived insult to religion isn't just someone saying some abstract thing. It is a vicious, hurtful, attack on your very being.
Try reading the *human* stories of the Reformation. People prepared to die by burning. Rational, thinking people doing so. Often, rational, thinking people doing the burning... Because their connection to their God was that important....
Charlie H is offensive - indeed it's intended to be so. But in a secular democracy there is, and has to be a distinction between being offensive and stirring up hatred. And the right to do the first has to be defended. Charlie H is not to my taste - it seem to me crass and unamusing - but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be published.
I am not entirely comfortable with the state making a point of republishing its more offensive sallies, but in the face or terror, governments cannot back down.
Yes, governments can back down in the face of terror. And often do.
Consider the Italians, and the Achille Lauro hi-jacking.
"Since you have blamed all Muslims and the Muslims’ religion for what was done by one angry person, the Muslims have a right to punish the French. The boycott cannot compensate the wrongs committed by the French all these years."
So tweet #12 is a bit misleading
Is this not just the old "Asian values" schtick he pursued in his politics, with some borrowed Islamist rhetoric. There has long been an argument amongst elements of the Muslim community that some things are restrained only because of the presence of a minority muslim community in the West being bound by local laws, and how it would be different in a country with a majority.
IIRC that was a line similar to the one pursued by the Kalim Siddiqui of the first version of the Muslim Parliament when he defended calls for the murder of Salman Rushdie. Note that the reformed version of the MP leader Ghayasuddin Siddiqui) took a very different line.
If you read the thread there's also the stuff about 'protecting' women by keeping them restricted.
Wonder what he thinks about the 'rights' of the descendants of the millions enslaved under Islam to kill millions of Muslims as revenge.
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
@HYUFD we've already discussed all those SurveyMonkey polls from yesterday. It would be good if you didn't spam up the thread with an unnecessary amount of Twitter links if you can help it.
Well obviously some didn't see them as per the comments after and given they have only come out in the last 12 hours I have no problem whatsoever in posting them and will continue to do the same when the next ones come out
Just an idle thought. I wonder how many of the people who are so excited about the EHRC report would, under different circumstances, be calling for the abolition of the EHRC? Equalities and Human Rights Commission? Never heard of such WOKE nonsense in my life. Oh well.
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
The problem, as I see it, is that "stirring up hatred" can mean different things to different people. Ask many Muslims around the world - they would say, yes, Charlie H does stir up hatred.
Part of the problem here is that Western world is largely post-religious - in the sense that people from times past would see it. Yes, plenty of people bothering God etc. But it isn't the core of our lives anymore. So we don't *get it*.
It is incredibly hard to understand the mindset - this is one where religion and life are tightly bound together. a perceived insult to religion isn't just someone saying some abstract thing. It is a vicious, hurtful, attack on your very being.
Try reading the *human* stories of the Reformation. People prepared to die by burning. Rational, thinking people doing so. Often, rational, thinking people doing the burning... Because their connection to their God was that important....
Charlie H is offensive - indeed it's intended to be so. But in a secular democracy there is, and has to be a distinction between being offensive and stirring up hatred. And the right to do the first has to be defended. Charlie H is not to my taste - it seem to me crass and unamusing - but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be published.
I am not entirely comfortable with the state making a point of republishing its more offensive sallies, but in the face or terror, governments cannot back down.
Yes, governments can back down in the face of terror. And often do.
Consider the Italians, and the Achille Lauro hi-jacking.
So what restrictions would you have France introduce on freedom of speech ?
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Threads should be much more manageable now.
People who don't live in the USA and who hate the USA should stop talking about WH2020.
People who don't live in France and who hate France should stop talking about Charlie Hebdo
People who arent teachers and don't like teachers shoud not talk about Corona rules in schools.
People who don't wear masks and hate masks should stop talking about corona masks.
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
Citizen doesn't look any more a proper pollster than Trafalgar, which is not to say Hyufd won't take them seriously!
They can be posted as any other pollster but we know Trafalgar got it right last time in Michigan and Pennsylvania where they are again the only pollster to have Trump ahead in those 2 states, Citizen Data have no such record of being right against the polling herd I know of
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
If the law was applied equally to all groups then yes you'd have a point, but it is quite clear that they aren't.
For example the professor at Cambridge that tweeted that "white lives don't matter" and "every day I resist the urge to kneecap white men" had no action taken against her.
If the target of the tweets had been a protected minority then she would have been investigated by the police, no doubt about it.
As for the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, it's clear they've "stirred up hatred" since a result of them getting published they got machine gunned to death and now people are getting beheaded in France left, right and centre over them.
I recall a politician who stirred up hatred repeatedly.
He got involved in so many fights and killings that he published a pamphlet on knife fighting techniques.
Have I missed anything apart from the odd general election, leadership elections, pandemic, POTUS campaign and TSE going over to the dark side of pineapple pizza?
There's been a minor change in our trading relationships with Europe that some are quite exercised about.
Yes I had noticed that David. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find east European staff to pick pineapples from my hothouses for the new Auchentennach Pizza Extravanganza ....
Have you run out of Liberals to put in your pies? We are getting scarce.
There are shockingly thin on the ground so we have decided to re-brand the product as a niche market high end delight for the gastronomic cognoscenti.
Nice to see you back, Jack. Will you be stopping or are you just out for Halloween?
I have the new Rolls Royce Tandem Broomstick on order for Mrs Jack and I but for some time but unfortunately the lockdown in Derby has scuppered my plans. Spooky ....
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Threads should be much more manageable now.
People who don't live in the USA and who hate the USA should stop talking about WH2020.
People who don't live in France and who hate France should stop talking about Charlie Hebdo
People who arent teachers and don't like teachers shoud not talk about Corona rules in schools.
People who don't wear masks and hate masks should stop talking about corona masks.
Have I missed anything apart from the odd general election, leadership elections, pandemic, POTUS campaign and TSE going over to the dark side of pineapple pizza?
There's been a minor change in our trading relationships with Europe that some are quite exercised about.
Yes I had noticed that David. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find east European staff to pick pineapples from my hothouses for the new Auchentennach Pizza Extravanganza ....
Have you run out of Liberals to put in your pies? We are getting scarce.
There are shockingly thin on the ground so we have decided to re-brand the product as a niche market high end delight for the gastronomic cognoscenti.
Nice to see you back, Jack. Will you be stopping or are you just out for Halloween?
I have the new Rolls Royce Tandem Broomstick on order for Mrs Jack and I but for some time but unfortunately the lockdown in Derby has scuppered my plans. Spooky ....
Jack, whilst it's good to see you back again, I think you're losing your touch somewhat ... first there's no lockdown in Derby affecting Rolls Royce. Second the R-R plant in question manufactures aero engines, not broomsticks.
@HYUFD we've already discussed all those SurveyMonkey polls from yesterday. It would be good if you didn't spam up the thread with an unnecessary amount of Twitter links if you can help it.
Well obviously some didn't see them as per the comments after and given they have only come out in the last 12 hours I have no problem whatsoever in posting them and will continue to do the same when the next ones come out
The trouble is mate that they bung up the load times really badly on the iPhone.
I've taken to transcribing poll results into text for that reason – the tweets make the threads inaccessible for iPhone/iPad users.
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Threads should be much more manageable now.
People who don't live in the USA and who hate the USA should stop talking about WH2020.
People who don't live in France and who hate France should stop talking about Charlie Hebdo
People who arent teachers and don't like teachers shoud not talk about Corona rules in schools.
People who don't wear masks and hate masks should stop talking about corona masks.
....
Don't forget the BBC
People who aren't Trump and hate Trump should stop talking...
So very unlikely US GDP of 2020 being higher than 2019 as Contrarian was touting yesterday.
Edit - By my reckoning that's a 7.5% QoQ growth, I hate Americans for annualising it.
Do you also hate apr for credit interest. Lots of economic statistics are annualised.
Also that is a great graphic as an example of how to lie with statistics. If you plot the GDP rather than the change in GDP you get a completely different impression.
@HYUFD we've already discussed all those SurveyMonkey polls from yesterday. It would be good if you didn't spam up the thread with an unnecessary amount of Twitter links if you can help it.
Well obviously some didn't see them as per the comments after and given they have only come out in the last 12 hours I have no problem whatsoever in posting them and will continue to do the same when the next ones come out
Well it would better, as many people are having performance issues with the site, to copy and paste the numbers rather than a load of tweets, instead of being an arse about it.
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
The problem, as I see it, is that "stirring up hatred" can mean different things to different people. Ask many Muslims around the world - they would say, yes, Charlie H does stir up hatred.
Part of the problem here is that Western world is largely post-religious - in the sense that people from times past would see it. Yes, plenty of people bothering God etc. But it isn't the core of our lives anymore. So we don't *get it*.
It is incredibly hard to understand the mindset - this is one where religion and life are tightly bound together. a perceived insult to religion isn't just someone saying some abstract thing. It is a vicious, hurtful, attack on your very being.
Try reading the *human* stories of the Reformation. People prepared to die by burning. Rational, thinking people doing so. Often, rational, thinking people doing the burning... Because their connection to their God was that important....
Charlie H is offensive - indeed it's intended to be so. But in a secular democracy there is, and has to be a distinction between being offensive and stirring up hatred. And the right to do the first has to be defended. Charlie H is not to my taste - it seem to me crass and unamusing - but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be published.
I am not entirely comfortable with the state making a point of republishing its more offensive sallies, but in the face or terror, governments cannot back down.
It's an interesting comparison to the propagation of the original cartoons.
These were reported / published in an Eqyptian tabloid months before it seriously kicked off.
Then later on a group of activist Imams from Denmark took a trip round the Middle East visiting Governments. Then it all kicked off. I'd say the Imams weren't happy that the cartoons were sufficiently inciting hatred on their own, so some help was required.
Then we had some of our institutions embarrassing themselves by compromising and so on and on and on.
Marist had Hillary ahead 49% to 37% for Trump in Pennsylvania in October 2016 too, Trump won the state, how on earth are they therefore an A grade pollster given they got 2016 so wrong?
p.s. I don't even think Florida or Pennsylvania are any longer in play.
We could do with a recent PA poll from a A-grade pollster – simply because they don't have early voting as such there (just absentee ballots) so there is more to play for than in other swing states.
France paying the price for sticking up for Western values.
Meanwhile in Scotland we have new hate laws that would make criticising the ideology that carried out this attack in their own homes illegal.
According to my reading of the proposal, showing a copy of the Charlie H at a hypothetical dinner party would be prosecutable.
Apparently it introduces "an offence of stirring-up of hatred against people with protected characteristics", so it's not even a bill that will help protect everyone, just the chosen few.
Essentially an Islamic blasphemy law, one of the key parts of Sharia law being implemented by one of the few Muslims in power in Scotland.
Get a grip.
"Protected characteristics These are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation."
I don't know what you've been reading, but everyone has protected characteristics. You can't stir up hatred against the majority/less commonly persecuted in any of those groups either. So it's not ok to stir up hatred against men, against heterosexual people, against non-disabled people, against non-pregnant people, against atheists (or Christians) etc etc. The point about equality legislation is that it does protect everyone, not just those traditionally persecuted. There's a clue in the name.
(I haven't looked in to the proposed Scottish law to see whether it makes sense, so won't comment on that, just on the random raging against equality/anti-hate law)
Separately, @Malmesbury (genuinely interested) why would showing a copy of Charlie H stir up hatred? It's offensive to Muslims, sure, but does it stir up hatred? May be I've missed something either in Charlie H (I've only briefly read reports of what's in it) or the law, but I can't see it myself.
The problem, as I see it, is that "stirring up hatred" can mean different things to different people. Ask many Muslims around the world - they would say, yes, Charlie H does stir up hatred.
Part of the problem here is that Western world is largely post-religious - in the sense that people from times past would see it. Yes, plenty of people bothering God etc. But it isn't the core of our lives anymore. So we don't *get it*.
It is incredibly hard to understand the mindset - this is one where religion and life are tightly bound together. a perceived insult to religion isn't just someone saying some abstract thing. It is a vicious, hurtful, attack on your very being.
Try reading the *human* stories of the Reformation. People prepared to die by burning. Rational, thinking people doing so. Often, rational, thinking people doing the burning... Because their connection to their God was that important....
Thank you. There is an issue here around taking the "victim's perception" as being too important, which is something that comes up, although as far as I can see it is only used to categorise potential crimes as potential hate crimes (i.e. does not change whether it was in fact a crime).
I would very be concerned if your example became prosecutable.
Re the Hebdo cartoons, the context is surely key. For example, printing them out and going around a Muslim neighborhood shoving them through letterboxes, that would be a hate crime, I would have thought. But publishing them generally, or using them as a discussion tool, certainly not a crime. An edge case might be wearing a tee shirt with that as the design. Perhaps there has been such a case but I can't recall one.
"I hope to see decisive leadership in the coming weeks and months."
Luciana Berger's response, I thought, was measured.
After the alarm of your commentary on Starmer's reaction to the report. I have seen it for myself. Starmer has a lot of work to do, but I didn't see anything like the Corbyn apologism from Starmer you suggest.
It would be nice to, in time, see the back of Corbyn and chums. I would keep a special place in my heart for the moment Len is hurled out of the party.
@HYUFD we've already discussed all those SurveyMonkey polls from yesterday. It would be good if you didn't spam up the thread with an unnecessary amount of Twitter links if you can help it.
Well obviously some didn't see them as per the comments after and given they have only come out in the last 12 hours I have no problem whatsoever in posting them and will continue to do the same when the next ones come out
The trouble is mate that they bung up the load times really badly on the iPhone.
I've taken to transcribing poll results into text for that reason – the tweets make the threads inaccessible for iPhone/iPad users.
I have given up accessing PB on iPhone, I can no longer add comments there, I think it is an issue for OGH to take up with Vanilla whatever is posted here
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
Citizen doesn't look any more a proper pollster than Trafalgar, which is not to say Hyufd won't take them seriously!
They can be posted as any other pollster but we know Trafalgar got it right last time in Michigan and Pennsylvania where they are again the only pollster to have Trump ahead in those 2 states, Citizen Data have no such record of being right against the polling herd I know of
As far as I can see they have no record whatsoever – they don't appear to have polled before.
Fuckssake he's defending Corbyn AGAIN. "No individual findings against Jeremy Corbyn"
Well he is an ex lawyer, is he wrong on that point ? I have not read the full report.
He can have people expelled for bringing the party into disrepute. "They're all shit" in the report doesn't mean that he can't remove them all individually because it didn't say "x,y,z are shit"
The law doesn't come into it. Hard for Corbyn to challenge his expulsion legally on "disrepute" grounds. The party has just been brought to its knees because of him.
If there is blame it's to those who voted for him. The one thing you cant argue with is that you didn't get what was written on the tin. He has never hidden his views and indeed voted against his party hundreds of times to prove it. To start seeking retribution on the deposed leader because the party chose unwisely is positively Stalinist
p.s. I don't even think Florida or Pennsylvania are any longer in play.
You mean for Trump? If so i disagree, i think he has a fair chance of wining both. If you mean Pence, he has a very good chance with PA but i suspect FL will stay red. Difference is Trump really needs both those states, Biden could win without either, though more difficult if he lost both ofc.
That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
"London is empty"... Er what are you talking about? London has a population of over 9 million people! We are all still here.
I think thats the assumption that 'london' is the central tourist themepark.
London is one of those topics that people who know fuck all about it like to opine on here. Here's a suggestion - people who don't live in London and hate London, why don't you stop talking about London? Or at least stop taking our hard-earned money. One of the two.
Excellent. Let's make it general.
Posters who don't live in Scotland and hate Scotland should stop talking about Scotland.
Posters who don't live in Wales and hate Wales should stop talking about Wales.
Threads should be much more manageable now.
People who don't live in the USA and who hate the USA should stop talking about WH2020.
People who don't live in France and who hate France should stop talking about Charlie Hebdo
People who arent teachers and don't like teachers shoud not talk about Corona rules in schools.
People who don't wear masks and hate masks should stop talking about corona masks.
....
Don't forget the BBC
People who aren't Trump and hate Trump should stop talking...
Edit - By my reckoning that's a 7.5% QoQ growth, I hate Americans for annualising it.
File under No Shit Sherlock. It's actually quite easy to forecast the first estimate of US GDP with a reasonable degree of accuracy, because most of the data the first estimate is constructed from are published beforehand. The idea of positive growth in 2020 is a fantasy and was a fantasy well before this number was published.
Trump cut to 10% on 538 but 2.86 on Betfair. Has there ever been such a disconnect between evidence and odds on a high profile betting market. If this were a horse race one would suspect irregularities.
And some bizarre (!) polling just in from "Citizen Data" (1,000 LV) -
Comments
"Ready by Christmas"...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scientists-hope-for-coronavirus-vaccine-by-christmas-nv03jlvb3
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321642229996392448?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321642306345275392?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321642434158338054?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321642770021392384?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321643194094964737?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1321643284238901248?s=20
The details are interesting.
The "who are you voting for" question is right at the end. Dunno if that's good practice? I'd think not.
What is their defence? That a massive embarrassing EHRC report which found that collectively they had overseen illegality isn't sufficient to argue that the party is in disrepute?
I'd say it's almost a coin toss.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/10/donald-trump-foreign-policy-america-first/616872/
Given the previous death of Eddie Large, membership of 1970s comedy duos seems to be a definite risk factor. But perhaps age is a confounding factor.
I also heard this a thousand times from left-leaning students in my undergraduate days: "I have a feeling this apartheid stuff entails some real injustice, and I was thinking of a campaign to rename the JCR privy after one of the key players. But then I thought naah, never been closer to Africa than Southend-on-Sea. Best leave it."
Worth remembering that less than a year ago, Sir Keir was campaigning for JC to be PM
For example the professor at Cambridge that tweeted that "white lives don't matter" and "every day I resist the urge to kneecap white men" had no action taken against her.
If the target of the tweets had been a protected minority then she would have been investigated by the police, no doubt about it.
As for the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, it's clear they've "stirred up hatred" since a result of them getting published they got machine gunned to death and now people are getting beheaded in France left, right and centre over them.
On that basis Biden has a very efficient vote and could win the Electoral College even if behind on the popular vote.
Wonder how SurveyMonkey came up with that result?
There's a raft of very good polls for Biden and the Dems so far today which even HYUFD might have difficulty conjuring away. However, in the interests of impartiality I'm taking the Citizen Data ones with a massive pinch of salt. Biden + 10 in Texas seems very unlikely.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
Consider the Italians, and the Achille Lauro hi-jacking.
IIRC that was a line similar to the one pursued by the Kalim Siddiqui of the first version of the Muslim Parliament when he defended calls for the murder of Salman Rushdie. Note that the reformed version of the MP leader Ghayasuddin Siddiqui) took a very different line.
If you read the thread there's also the stuff about 'protecting' women by keeping them restricted.
Wonder what he thinks about the 'rights' of the descendants of the millions enslaved under Islam to kill millions of Muslims as revenge.
https://twitter.com/OldNorthStPol/status/1321791418839535616
So very unlikely US GDP of 2020 being higher than 2019 as Contrarian was touting yesterday.
Edit - By my reckoning that's a 7.5% QoQ growth, I hate Americans for annualising it.
People who don't live in France and who hate France should stop talking about Charlie Hebdo
People who arent teachers and don't like teachers shoud not talk about Corona rules in schools.
People who don't wear masks and hate masks should stop talking about corona masks.
....
He got involved in so many fights and killings that he published a pamphlet on knife fighting techniques.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politician)
‘Religious Equality’ Is Transforming American Law
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/coming-threat-gay-rights/616882/
The idea that people of faith must be protected from discrimination—even when that means they themselves will discriminate against others—is gaining traction in the courts.
Unless it is jet (or nuclear) powered..
The trouble is mate that they bung up the load times really badly on the iPhone.
I've taken to transcribing poll results into text for that reason – the tweets make the threads inaccessible for iPhone/iPad users.
I would say that Citizen and Trafalgar are two cheeks of the same ARSE.
Also that is a great graphic as an example of how to lie with statistics. If you plot the GDP rather than the change in GDP you get a completely different impression.
https://twitter.com/ToddEberly/status/1321782021832773632
At this rate I'm going to call Texas, the Presidency, the House, and Senate for Biden and the Dems tomorrow.
(Sorry)
Marist is an A+ pollster.
The survey has Biden with a four point advantage.
Its final poll of 2016 was a virtual tie – so a similar polling error this time still gives Biden daylight.
These were reported / published in an Eqyptian tabloid months before it seriously kicked off.
Then later on a group of activist Imams from Denmark took a trip round the Middle East visiting Governments. Then it all kicked off. I'd say the Imams weren't happy that the cartoons were sufficiently inciting hatred on their own, so some help was required.
Then we had some of our institutions embarrassing themselves by compromising and so on and on and on.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-presidential-debates/polls-clinton-ahead-florida-pennsylvania-n662076
Marist had Hillary ahead 49% to 37% for Trump in Pennsylvania in October 2016 too, Trump won the state, how on earth are they therefore an A grade pollster given they got 2016 so wrong?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8892539/Coronavirus-UK-Prankster-27-sets-limited-company-6-dodge-rule-six.html
We could do with a recent PA poll from a A-grade pollster – simply because they don't have early voting as such there (just absentee ballots) so there is more to play for than in other swing states.
https://twitter.com/OldNorthStPol/status/1321795596420849665
...any minute now.
After the alarm of your commentary on Starmer's reaction to the report. I have seen it for myself. Starmer has a lot of work to do, but I didn't see anything like the Corbyn apologism from Starmer you suggest.
It would be nice to, in time, see the back of Corbyn and chums. I would keep a special place in my heart for the moment Len is hurled out of the party.
Their final poll in Florida was 46% - 46%.
He could have simply had a business lunch with them as prospective investors in his new idea.
And some bizarre (!) polling just in from "Citizen Data" (1,000 LV) -
Biden +10 in Texas but only +5 in Pennsylvania.
Siena College's last Florida poll, albeit at the start of October, has Biden up by 5.
I don't see @HYUFD banging on about them.
Corbyn out...