Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

US Election Night: The Ten Counties We Need to Watch (Part One of Two) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited October 2020 in General
imageUS Election Night: The Ten Counties We Need to Watch (Part One of Two) – politicalbetting.com

US Election Day (which is, I suppose, a misnomer given most votes have now been cast) is just five days away. Here – in order of reporting – are the first five of the ten counties punters need to watch in order to correctly estimate the likely election result.

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    edited October 2020
    (FPT, and on topic, sort of.)
    The Supreme Court has basically told Pennsylvania voters who use a postal vote that its validity depends on the efficiency of the postal service, as they will only decide how to treat those votes after the election.

    Pennsylvania Voters, Do Not Leave Your Mail-In Ballots in the Hands of the Supreme Court
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/pennsylvania-late-ballots-supreme-court-alito.html

    If the election does hang on those votes, which is far from impossible, how can they then make an unbiased ruling ?
  • Roger said:
    In 2024 Trump can do a video spot for Farage from his Jail Cell
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    On topic, I think the Virginia result last mentioned might be the most significant, with Florida almost as much, with the usual Florida is odd and unpredictable caveats.
    I’m not convinced even a swingy district in Indiana is going to tell us all that much.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    edited October 2020
    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Roger said:
    In 2024 Trump can do a video spot for Farage from his Jail Cell
    But if Farage is in a jail cell, he won’t be standing.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    I was going to ask if Dixville Notch really published their votes at 5 minutes past midnight and then I remember that it is literally 8-10 people in a room and they do actually announce them immediately.
  • Nigelb said:

    (FPT, and on topic, sort of.)
    The Supreme Court has basically told Pennsylvania voters who use a postal vote that its validity depends on the efficiency of the postal service, as they will only decide how to treat those votes after the election.

    Pennsylvania Voters, Do Not Leave Your Mail-In Ballots in the Hands of the Supreme Court
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/pennsylvania-late-ballots-supreme-court-alito.html

    If the election does hang on those votes, which is far from impossible, how can they then make an unbiased ruling ?

    Why would they want one of those?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,603
    Roger said:
    Farage is good on his feet without a teleprompter
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.

    Sadly, I think all you're doing is showing that Imperial are talking shite.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425

    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.

    No. The restrictions reduce the speed at which the number of cases increase, they don't have any bearing on the absolute level.

    The best estimates are that infections peaked at ~120,000 per day in the spring. But it took much less time to increase to that rate. Although the ONS figures are in arrears they suggest it's unlikely we're at 100,000 a day at the moment.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    DavidL said:

    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.

    Tell them you have COVID
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,834
    edited October 2020

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    In theory a good idea. In practice you can easily tune a full cost benefit analysis to whatever answer you want by tweaking the inputs. No-one knows what the inputs should really be. The cautious will support the inputs that give a cautious result. The sceptics will support the inputs that give a sceptical approach to lockdown. Nothing will change.

    If its going to be for six months more (and a year plus in total), I think more consideration should be given to other factors, but it cant be done fairly and effectively through "accounting".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,591
    Thanks, looking forward to part 2.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    tlg86 said:

    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.

    Sadly, I think all you're doing is showing that Imperial are talking shite.
    I think you are probably right.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    What is the Barnesian plan for watching on Tuesday night? Are there accessible channels which actually show results down to county level?

    O/T: worth hearing this one-minute speech on the school meals issue by a peer who I don't remember ever meeting - calm, sober, non-partisan and very touching:

    https://youtu.be/jcSf8VYXQBQ
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.

    Don't worry you might get off
    Unionist Tory in Scotland? He should be so lucky!
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    Hamilton drove quicker than one other guy? Not much of an achievement that can be measured against an elite footballer.

    Time to open up F1 competition from its duopoly. At the least 3 cars per brand. Ideally each driver drives each brand twice a year, the winner will then be the best driver out of 20 rather than 2.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    For 2 to work, you would need to reform the government side of many contracts. Arbitrary changes non-stop - will have to stop.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited October 2020

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    Hamilton drove quicker than one other guy? Not much of an achievement that can be measured against an elite footballer.

    Time to open up F1 competition from its duopoly. At the least 3 cars per brand. Ideally each driver drives each brand twice a year, the winner will then be the best driver out of 20 rather than 2.
    That sounds awful. The whole point of F1 is that it is a team effort between engineers and driver. It is not a spec series where it's just down to the driver.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    For 2 to work, you would need to reform the government side of many contracts. Arbitrary changes non-stop - will have to stop.
    Sure. There are doubtless many changes to be made on the government side too.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Barnesian said:

    Roger said:
    Farage is good on his feet without a teleprompter
    'One of the most powerful men in Europe.....'!

    It was like watching two slugs making love
  • If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Lockdown Sceptics are already making a difference.
    They've mocked mask wearing, taken a pop at all levels of restrictions short of lockdown, and relentlessly spread misinformation non-stop.

    The difference they're going to make is getting us back into a full lockdown.

    The irony is that I'd describe myself as sceptical over full lockdowns - but Young and his followers are relentless deniers, apparently statistically illiterate, and won't settle for anything short of "it's not a problem!"
    Well said.

    If masks etc can control R enough then there would be no need for a lockdown, but these illiterate fools are making a lockdown more likely not less.

    They're like Corbynistas who made a Tory government more likely.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    tlg86 said:

    Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.

    Giving it to a Skybot is creating a hostage to fortune when the truth inevitably emerges.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    No more than such clauses do to individuals. Staged payments are common in other contracts.

    If a company is suffering cash flow issues I’d be wondering how they could provide quality stuff and how a penalty clause would work.

    What we need to avoid is the “take the money and run” approach which seems to be prevalent.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425
    Cyclefree said:

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    This would be a major problem for any SME that wanted to work on a government contract.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Labour following up

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1321712910947753984?s=20

    But then this is a good day to bury bad news....
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    No more than such clauses do to individuals. Staged payments are common in other contracts.

    If a company is suffering cash flow issues I’d be wondering how they could provide quality stuff and how a penalty clause would work.

    What we need to avoid is the “take the money and run” approach which seems to be prevalent.
    How much of an issue is taking the money and running and why can't the criminal justice system deal with them?

    During a pandemic surely getting much-needed PPE quickly and rapidly is more important than whether some money gets wasted. If you end up leaving doctors short on PPE but you've saved a million then that is a false economy surely?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited October 2020

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, there'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    edited October 2020
    A couple of inescapable mathematical facts:

    - If immunity levels in any area (countrywide, or citywide, like London) are anything like 60%, then an R0 of 3.0 becomes an Rt of 1.2. With almost any adherence to restrictions, that would push it down below 1.0.

    - The highest possible number of false positives in cases measured is the number of cases measured. If, say, you have 114,274 tests and 400 positives, the maximum number of false positives is 400. Not 914 (the number expected if false positive rates are 0.8% and the sample prevalence is zero). Or 3,428 (the number expected if false positive rates are 3% - the smallest number compatible with "a few percent"). You cannot look at 400 results and say that 3,428 of them are false. You can't even say that 914 of them are false. And we had positivity rates of that level (that's actually the result from the 4th of July, and 17 other days in July and early August had similar levels of positivity)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    tlg86 said:

    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.

    Sadly, I think all you're doing is showing that Imperial are talking shite.
    I think you are probably right.
    Given the Imperial study is done from swab data, why would it be wrong?

    The actual publication in question, by the way -

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/institute-of-global-health-innovation/REACT1_r6_interim_preprint.pdf
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    Hamilton drove quicker than one other guy? Not much of an achievement that can be measured against an elite footballer.

    Time to open up F1 competition from its duopoly. At the least 3 cars per brand. Ideally each driver drives each brand twice a year, the winner will then be the best driver out of 20 rather than 2.
    That sounds awful. The whole point of F1 is that it is a team effort between engineers and driver. It is not a spec series where it's just down to the driver.
    Exactly. So you can't say that the champion is the best driver. Just that he is better than his team-mate.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755

    tlg86 said:

    My point regarding herd immunity is really regarding the number of infections that must have happened during the Spring/Early Summer if we are having 100,000 a day now. If this report is correct with all the restrictions in place now then a figure of 500,000 infections per day in February/March would not seem unreasonable. Therefore it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for 20,000,000 to have been infected in the first wave. I know that figure sounds mad, but just think how many people you came into close contact with in February compared to now. We are living in a completely different world yet we still may be getting 100,000 infections per day.

    Sadly, I think all you're doing is showing that Imperial are talking shite.
    I think you are probably right.
    Had a quick look at the report. One interesting factor is that this is based on the first 86k (received competed tests) or so of a 160k sample. So the sample is nationally representative and they've re-weighted prevalence in the sample received back to be nationally representative, but it's not impossible that those who have completed the samples first were those who thought they were more likely to be infected, either due to some mild symptoms knowing of cases in social circle. Not certain, but this partial response sample could be biased towards more positives in ways that are not easily controlled for.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.

    Giving it to a Skybot is creating a hostage to fortune when the truth inevitably emerges.
    He has the advantage of a weird name (reminds me of Jenson Button), so sticks in the mind.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:
    In 2024 Trump can do a video spot for Farage from his Jail Cell
    But if Farage is in a jail cell, he won’t be standing.
    Just on remand?
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,591
    "At least one person has died and several others have been wounded in a stabbing attack in Nice, French media report.
    Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said that one person had been arrested.
    He said everything pointed to a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica"."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54729957
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Roger said:
    Farage is good on his feet without a teleprompter
    'One of the most powerful men in Europe.....'!

    It was like watching two slugs making love
    Apophallation allows the slugs to separate themselves by one or both of the slugs chewing off the other's or its own penis.
    Wikipedia

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    No more than such clauses do to individuals. Staged payments are common in other contracts.

    If a company is suffering cash flow issues I’d be wondering how they could provide quality stuff and how a penalty clause would work.

    What we need to avoid is the “take the money and run” approach which seems to be prevalent.
    I would suggest that we would need reform to how the government often runs contracts.

    Huge monoliths, with changes creating work faster than it can be done, leading to vast, conflicting specifications.... Well, it's not surprising that the work can only be done by huge companies that can absorb such behaviour.

    I think what we need are more POCs, and a fundamental change in giant projects - breaking them into smaller pieces, better specs, limiting changes...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Andy_JS said:

    "At least one person has died and several others have been wounded in a stabbing attack in Nice, French media report.
    Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said that one person had been arrested.
    He said everything pointed to a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica"."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54729957

    It's just utterly disgusting and terrible.

    There is something very very wrong in the world.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Great header, I love this stuff
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    Hamilton drove quicker than one other guy? Not much of an achievement that can be measured against an elite footballer.

    Time to open up F1 competition from its duopoly. At the least 3 cars per brand. Ideally each driver drives each brand twice a year, the winner will then be the best driver out of 20 rather than 2.
    That sounds awful. The whole point of F1 is that it is a team effort between engineers and driver. It is not a spec series where it's just down to the driver.
    The whole point of F1 is that the richest teams buys the best driver and takes all the prizes leaving the rest with chump change until they can find a way to break the rules to prosper. A shining example of 21st century capitalism.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    No more than such clauses do to individuals. Staged payments are common in other contracts.

    If a company is suffering cash flow issues I’d be wondering how they could provide quality stuff and how a penalty clause would work.

    What we need to avoid is the “take the money and run” approach which seems to be prevalent.
    How much of an issue is taking the money and running and why can't the criminal justice system deal with them?

    During a pandemic surely getting much-needed PPE quickly and rapidly is more important than whether some money gets wasted. If you end up leaving doctors short on PPE but you've saved a million then that is a false economy surely?
    The answer to your first question is that providing inadequate goods / services is not a criminal matter.

    Re your second: if the clauses are drafted in advance and automatically included in such contracts then there should be no issue. You both get the PPE and the ability to recover monies if not provided / tax paid etc.

    Whereas in some cases we’ve both wasted the money and not got the PPE which is the worst of all worlds.

    The claim that this is an emergency and therefore there is no need for any sort of checks is a pretext used by every fraudster everywhere. Clauses like these should not bother competent companies but they will help weed out snake oil salesmen and fraudsters.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
    Everything is political. Hamilton has hardly been quiet on the politics front either.
  • Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.

    Don't worry you might get off
    Unionist Tory in Scotland? He should be so lucky!
    'You are accused of supporting Brexit and Boris to the detriment of the Union.'

    43 seconds of deliberation.

    'Send him down.'

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Fascinating study into the differences in lockdowns between the four countries of the UK:

    https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2020-10/BSG-WP-2020-035-v1_0.pdf
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Above, the financial playing field isn't fair in F1.

    However, it's the regulations more than the money that's led to the current situation. On top of that, Brawn came from nowhere to win, and that was the foundation for Mercedes' reign. Ferrari has had precious little success of late, so suggesting it's all down to money is not something with which I can agree.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    Would clause 2 not unfairly penalise smaller companies who need the cashflow?
    No more than such clauses do to individuals. Staged payments are common in other contracts.

    If a company is suffering cash flow issues I’d be wondering how they could provide quality stuff and how a penalty clause would work.

    What we need to avoid is the “take the money and run” approach which seems to be prevalent.
    I would suggest that we would need reform to how the government often runs contracts.

    Huge monoliths, with changes creating work faster than it can be done, leading to vast, conflicting specifications.... Well, it's not surprising that the work can only be done by huge companies that can absorb such behaviour.

    I think what we need are more POCs, and a fundamental change in giant projects - breaking them into smaller pieces, better specs, limiting changes...
    I’m sure you’re right.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
    Everything is political. Hamilton has hardly been quiet on the politics front either.
    But he's campaigning for racial equality - who doesn't agree with that? It doesn't cost any money. And I'd expect BLM to get covered in the show generally.

    Hamilton's section will almost certainly focus on the sporting achievement. The same can't be said of Marcus "I lost three semi finals" Rashford.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    BBC: "Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick has said talks will take place later today over moving Leeds and West Yorkshire to the highest tier of Covid restrictions. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme there was a "concerning rise" in the number of cases and pressure on the local NHS in the two areas."

    Not sure how Leeds and WY can be described as "two areas". Anyway, Tier 3 at the weekend, I guess.
  • Over on Twitter people are already filling up their #corbingo cards and the report hasn't been published yet...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    1. Is a good idea and would be effective at reducing such arrangements.
    2. and 3. are broadbrush requirements which may not be applicable in all cases. The dividends bit wouldn't work I think - how will SERCO et al. disentangle their profits on this particular contract vs. others. They will easily be able to get around such a restriction.

    The important thing is to have capable people negotiating these contracts, with the right incentives.

    At the moment our politicians are overly ideological about such things, convinced the private sector will deliver everything better, and in some cases are just corrupt and giving money to their mates.

    The fact that they established special procurement channels shows to some extent that the normal procurement channels would have worked to prevent this kind of thing highlighted by good law project.
  • Mr. Above, the financial playing field isn't fair in F1.

    However, it's the regulations more than the money that's led to the current situation. On top of that, Brawn came from nowhere to win, and that was the foundation for Mercedes' reign. Ferrari has had precious little success of late, so suggesting it's all down to money is not something with which I can agree.

    Brawn won by exploiting the rules.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    Hamilton drove quicker than one other guy? Not much of an achievement that can be measured against an elite footballer.

    Time to open up F1 competition from its duopoly. At the least 3 cars per brand. Ideally each driver drives each brand twice a year, the winner will then be the best driver out of 20 rather than 2.
    That sounds awful. The whole point of F1 is that it is a team effort between engineers and driver. It is not a spec series where it's just down to the driver.
    The whole point of F1 is that the richest teams buys the best driver and takes all the prizes leaving the rest with chump change until they can find a way to break the rules to prosper. A shining example of 21st century capitalism.
    The same applies to Football of course.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,591
    Report from yesterday.

    "Row over 'rude' Charlie Hebdo cartoon mocking Turkey's President Erdogan
    A caricature of the Turkish leader in his underwear causes a new diplomatic spat with France."

    https://news.sky.com/story/row-over-rude-charlie-hebdo-cartoon-mocking-turkeys-president-erdogan-12116831
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315

    Cyclefree said:

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    This would be a major problem for any SME that wanted to work on a government contract.
    Staged payments and a delay for final payment to ensure that the contract has been properly delivered? Really? it doesn’t have to be 3-5 years but something needs to be in there to ensure that companies - even SMEs - don’t deliver something that looks nice on the surface but falls apart a few weeks/months later.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.

    Tell them you have COVID
    Doesn't work. Both hearings are remote, by telephone.
    I could do them in my pyjamas if I wanted to but being awake is definitely required.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
    I dont think he will be nominated for these reasons, but the campaign he led earlier in the year raised £20m for the FareShare charity.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    rkrkrk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    1. Is a good idea and would be effective at reducing such arrangements.
    2. and 3. are broadbrush requirements which may not be applicable in all cases. The dividends bit wouldn't work I think - how will SERCO et al. disentangle their profits on this particular contract vs. others. They will easily be able to get around such a restriction.

    The important thing is to have capable people negotiating these contracts, with the right incentives.

    At the moment our politicians are overly ideological about such things, convinced the private sector will deliver everything better, and in some cases are just corrupt and giving money to their mates.

    The fact that they established special procurement channels shows to some extent that the normal procurement channels would have worked to prevent this kind of thing highlighted by good law project.
    These surely should be some of the lessons learned from this. Whether they will be is another matter. I have my doubts, especially with this lot in charge.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Cyclefree said:

    Poor France.

    Those poor victims. To offer condolences seems wholly inadequate but they are nonetheless offered.

    I see the BBC has it far down the screen. Marcus Rashford at the top of course:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/
  • BBC: "Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick has said talks will take place later today over moving Leeds and West Yorkshire to the highest tier of Covid restrictions. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme there was a "concerning rise" in the number of cases and pressure on the local NHS in the two areas."

    Not sure how Leeds and WY can be described as "two areas". Anyway, Tier 3 at the weekend, I guess.

    Bugger. But not unexpected. Best go for a pint Friday night then, if I still can.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    edited October 2020
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
    The BBC can cover it easily: "Marcus Rashford is of course also known for his campaign for FSM, for which he was awarded an MBE earlier this year."

    ETA it is the MBE from HMG that defuses any accusation of bias. Social media and newspapers will of course fill in the gaps.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited October 2020

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has the government given into Rashford yet?

    Leipzig did.

    Marcus Rashford: Man Utd striker scores hat-trick after 1m signatures
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54727940
    That was a truly stunning half hour from Rashford last night. Speed, positioning, power, ruthlessness, it had the lot. I've never seen him play that well.
    Surely nailed on for SPotY.
    Still 2/1 with Hills (I think).

    I think there might be value on Ronnie O'Sullivan at 9-1.
    Jockey Hollie Doyle won't win but is worth keeping in mind for the long place markets when they appear. This year she became the first woman jockey to win five races on a card and more than 100 winners for the second season running, and breaking the record for a woman jockey. She is, I'd have thought, very likely to be shortlisted.
    But will people vote for her? The reason Phil Taylor, Kevin Sinfield, Nick Skelton and Jonathan Rea placed is because they have the fans of the sport backing them. Will that be the case with Doyle? I'm not so sure. Tao Geoghegan Hart might be a better bet for a place - if nominated, of course.
    The BBC will want some women on the shortlist and there are not many to choose from. Whether Doyle then gets enough public votes to scrape into a place is yet to be seen but she should at least get to the start.

    Marcus Rashford is probably nailed on now even if, on sporting achievement, Lewis Hamilton is more deserving. Hamilton is odds-against on Betfair, btw.
    It's a tricky one as it's an unprecedented situation, I think. There have been times when contenders for SPOTY have had non-sporting reasons for backing them (Darren Clarke in 2006 and perhaps Barry McGuigan in 1985 come to mind), but Rashford is in the running purely for his off the field activities. I guess he benefits from being a Man Utd player, but I'm not sure how the voting public at large will view his nomination.

    Also, does the BBC have to be a little careful. There was a row concerning one of their commentators who had to get a commentary line on Rashford authorised on the grounds of political neutrality. Can the BBC nominate him for this award? I'm not certain - obviously if he isn't, they'll be a hell of an argument, but the BBC does have to play by its own rules.
    Ah, but after last night's hat trick in 16 minutes, there are good enough footballing reasons for Rashford to qualify.
    :lol:

    I'm trying to envisage his segment on the show - how can the BBC cover it without getting into politics? It's not like he's been raising money for charity. He's lobbying the government to change policy, which is fine, but is it appropriate for the BBC to have a segment on this without giving both sides of the debate?
    I dont think he will be nominated for these reasons, but the campaign he led earlier in the year raised £20m for the FareShare charity.
    Fair enough, but as you say, they can hardly nominate him on those grounds.

    Another option, of course, is to revert to the old fashioned way. Let the public vote for who they want - no nominations and no phone lines.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.
    As a matter of morality I don't disagree, but the turbulence of the public sector removing all Microsoft products from use will be significant, not only because of Office, but also because of how much runs on Azure, particularly since Amazon WS as the main competitor would also be off the table.
  • Mr. Above, the financial playing field isn't fair in F1.

    However, it's the regulations more than the money that's led to the current situation. On top of that, Brawn came from nowhere to win, and that was the foundation for Mercedes' reign. Ferrari has had precious little success of late, so suggesting it's all down to money is not something with which I can agree.

    Brawn won by exploiting the rules.
    Brawn was a case study of good car / crap engine. A late swap out of the crap Honda engine for the better Mercedes engine and it was dominant. Had they continued as Honda the blown double diffuser wouldn't have been remotely enough to win the titles. They weren't the only team exploiting the rules in this way...
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    MaxPB said:

    That 3.3 day doubling time in London looks bad. Let's see what the ONS data says tomorrow.

    London is empty so its hard to imagine an R rate that high
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    Andy_JS said:
    Well, they are guilty of provoking the violence. That is the read-out from the Identify Matrix. Unless you want to start punching down and blaming minorities and victims of colonialism for their own behaviour.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Poor France.

    Those poor victims. To offer condolences seems wholly inadequate but they are nonetheless offered.

    I see the BBC has it far down the screen. Marcus Rashford at the top of course:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/
    Anyone got the New York Times headline?
  • So much positive COVID news out last night...React study, leaked SAGE report that predicts we are all going to hell in a handcart, Oxford vaccine trial won't now report until after Christmas....fun times.
  • tlg86 said:
    LBC already playing clips - in my brief radio career what was the real eye-opener was the huge stack of pre-prepped obit materials for a wide range of people ready to be broadcast at minimal notice
  • MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Poor France.

    Those poor victims. To offer condolences seems wholly inadequate but they are nonetheless offered.

    I see the BBC has it far down the screen. Marcus Rashford at the top of course:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/
    I think people get different feeds, neither the attack nor Rashford are near the top on my version (Rashford below Nice but both a long way down). If you keep clicking on Rashford stories in disgust you probably get lots of Rashford stories prioritised for you!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Thanks, this is very useful. Another couple of counties to watch are Cobb in GA (Atlanta suburbs) and Sumter in FL (for the oldies). According to a leading Republican operative.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,099
    edited October 2020
    RobD said:

    MrEd said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Poor France.

    Those poor victims. To offer condolences seems wholly inadequate but they are nonetheless offered.

    I see the BBC has it far down the screen. Marcus Rashford at the top of course:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/
    Anyone got the New York Times headline?
    Well the BBC are currently reporting it as deadly stabbing....true, but it.clearly isn't the French equivalent of a gang fight that happens in London most days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.
    As a matter of morality I don't disagree, but the turbulence of the public sector removing all Microsoft products from use will be significant, not only because of Office, but also because of how much runs on Azure, particularly since Amazon WS as the main competitor would also be off the table.

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.
    As a matter of morality I don't disagree, but the turbulence of the public sector removing all Microsoft products from use will be significant, not only because of Office, but also because of how much runs on Azure, particularly since Amazon WS as the main competitor would also be off the table.
    Can you please define a tax haven? According to some definitions, Ireland is a tax haven.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So disappointed to have 2 courts back to back on Wednesday morning. Its going to be a really exciting night.

    Tell them you have COVID
    Doesn't work. Both hearings are remote, by telephone.
    I could do them in my pyjamas if I wanted to but being awake is definitely required.
    Pre-lockdown I had a boss who raked in a small fortune in overtime payments "attending" conference calls from the pub or in front of the telly. He rarely needed to contribute.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    Cyclefree said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    1. Is a good idea and would be effective at reducing such arrangements.
    2. and 3. are broadbrush requirements which may not be applicable in all cases. The dividends bit wouldn't work I think - how will SERCO et al. disentangle their profits on this particular contract vs. others. They will easily be able to get around such a restriction.

    The important thing is to have capable people negotiating these contracts, with the right incentives.

    At the moment our politicians are overly ideological about such things, convinced the private sector will deliver everything better, and in some cases are just corrupt and giving money to their mates.

    The fact that they established special procurement channels shows to some extent that the normal procurement channels would have worked to prevent this kind of thing highlighted by good law project.
    These surely should be some of the lessons learned from this. Whether they will be is another matter. I have my doubts, especially with this lot in charge.
    When a Minister overrides official advice to hand millions to ferry companies without ferries, or other companies set up by a mate two months ago with no relevant experience, it doesn't really matter what system you have - you have the wrong person as Minister.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Tory MPs and lockdown sceptics want to make a difference, they should demand that the Government come clean on the costs of current and future restrictions. They should insist on sound accounting

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/28/cant-let-dodgy-accounting-lead-us-disastrous-second-lockdown/

    Good luck.
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
    There are three clauses I’d like to see in public procurement contracts (whether for goods or services) like these:-

    1. No contracts to be awarded to companies where any part of the corporate structure is established in a tax haven. Companies should not be benefiting from providing goods/services to the public sector and then be able to avoid paying tax on the profits from such contracts.

    2. Penalty clauses in all such contracts. Final payments on such contracts only to be made on a staged basis after a period of time so that final payments are not made until after the contract has been completed and it has been determined that there are no faults with the goods and/or no issues with the services provided. A bit like the bonus provisions in city contracts - where payment is not given until 3 or 5 years after the awards.

    3. No dividends to be paid out by the company in relation to the profits from such contracts until final payment as under 2.

    There is nothing wrong in principle with private companies providing goods/services to the public sector. But we should do much much more to ensure that they are only paid for providing quality goods/services and that tax is paid in full in this country. The impression now being given is that companies are just gouging the government for money, sending it offshore or out to shareholders and the taxpayer is being short-changed in every sense.
    1. Is a good idea and would be effective at reducing such arrangements.
    2. and 3. are broadbrush requirements which may not be applicable in all cases. The dividends bit wouldn't work I think - how will SERCO et al. disentangle their profits on this particular contract vs. others. They will easily be able to get around such a restriction.

    The important thing is to have capable people negotiating these contracts, with the right incentives.

    At the moment our politicians are overly ideological about such things, convinced the private sector will deliver everything better, and in some cases are just corrupt and giving money to their mates.

    The fact that they established special procurement channels shows to some extent that the normal procurement channels would have worked to prevent this kind of thing highlighted by good law project.
    These surely should be some of the lessons learned from this. Whether they will be is another matter. I have my doubts, especially with this lot in charge.
    When a Minister overrides official advice to hand millions to ferry companies without ferries, or other companies set up by a mate two months ago with no relevant experience, it doesn't really matter what system you have - you have the wrong person as Minister.
    And the wrong person appointing the ministers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Tucker Carlson's "lost in the post" Bobulinski revelations are the funniest thing to come out in the election so far
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Good morning Mr. W.
This discussion has been closed.