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What is Sunak up to? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,597
edited October 2020 in General
What is Sunak up to? – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    https://twitter.com/ABCNewsLive/status/1318245073268736001?s=19
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited October 2020
    Heroin
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    In bickering for so long, both sides in this argument have only illustrated how this is about politics and not COVID, really.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Heroin

    It's my life
    And it's my wife
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    contrarian said:

    In bickering for so long, both sides in this argument have only illustrated how this is about politics and not COVID, really.

    By the time they come to some agreement it will have missed the boat...

    https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1318234846674681863?s=19
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Heroin

    He's certainly svelte. And can afford it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,685
    contrarian said:

    In bickering for so long, both sides in this argument have only illustrated how this is about politics and not COVID, really.

    That's a bit like saying that Mr Churchill's takeover from Mr Chamberlain as PM was an internal Tory Party war.

    Though that can certainly be said about Brexit - just a shame about the collateral damage.

    But back to topic and thank you Cyclefree, always worth reading. I'm reminded of travelling on a local bus from Durham to Hartlepool about 1995, which went around all the former mining villages, including Sedgefield. I'm familiar with former Scottish mining areas - but I was shaken by what I saw. Now if that is smashed all over again, who are they going to vote for, when they finally get the chance years on?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    Am unable to load the main site. Is that just me and my phone?
    Right now I shall remain in blissful ignorance of what Sunak's up to.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    One of my mates, who is a bit of a conspiracy theorist, has been saying for a while that there is something that will leak on Biden which will derail his bid for POTUS. I didnt really believe him. Maybe what @Alistair linked to is it
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited October 2020
    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    Watching Fox desperately trying to spin the Hunter Biden storm-in-a-teacup into something damaging is a joy to behold.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I'm sure the idea isn't original to either of us, but I'll be very happy if we're both vindicated.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,799
    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I was into Modern Monetary Theory as the solution to this before MMT back in March when this wasn't a thing.

    If the theory is correct the whole world can cope with this as it makes zero difference everywhere beyond a set of money owed to central banks that will never be repaid.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,240
    dixiedean said:

    Am unable to load the main site. Is that just me and my phone?
    Right now I shall remain in blissful ignorance of what Sunak's up to.

    Same here. I'm on Chrome on my PC.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,850
    IshmaelZ said:

    CorrectHorseBattery said:

    Heroin

    It's my life
    And it's my wife
    Stop bugging me stop bothering me
    Stop bugging me stop forcing me
    Stop fighting me stop yelling me
    It's my life.
  • AlwaysSingingAlwaysSinging Posts: 176
    I'm also having trouble - can only post through the main page, can't see the vf. domain. Seems to be a DNS problem.

    --AS
  • eekeek Posts: 30,799
    Another Cummings story

    https://twitter.com/PeteBarronMedia/status/1318250684530237440
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    Its with us for life...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856233/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-warns-Covid-19-never-away.html
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,368
    edited October 2020
    eek said:

    Another Cummings story

    https://twitter.com/PeteBarronMedia/status/1318250684530237440

    Since when has Ydoethur been writing for the Northern Echo? The myopic comments were coming thick and fast in that tweet.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,581
    Site has been down for me for about an hour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I was into Modern Monetary Theory as the solution to this before MMT back in March when this wasn't a thing.

    If the theory is correct the whole world can cope with this as it makes zero difference everywhere beyond a set of money owed to central banks that will never be repaid.
    Sounds like post neo-classical endogenous growth theory to me.

    As Michael Heseltine pithily remarked, it was Balls’.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    BBC News - Covid: Latest Greater Manchester talks end with no agreement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54606488

    Brexit deal or T3 deal, which will be first?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    Andy_JS said:

    Site has been down for me for about an hour.

    The Deep State at work again?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    A question about the “bug” in the Covid app which alerts you periodically to possible contacts only to immediately reassure you that you are safe.

    Is this a completely meaningless message or is it actually evidence that you have come into Bluetooth range (however fleeting) of a positive case? I’m just interested how often this might happen (given many people won’t have the app/turned on Bluetooth) in my c. 100 per 100k area.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,437
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Its with us for life...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856233/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-warns-Covid-19-never-away.html

    No we can't put it back in the bat. But hopefully medical advances inc vaccines will tame it sufficiently for life without Covid restrictions to resume by the end of next year at worst?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Mexicanpete said:

    eek said:

    Another Cummings story

    https://twitter.com/PeteBarronMedia/status/1318250684530237440

    Since when has Ydoethur been writing for the Northern Echo? The myopic comments were coming thick and fast in that tweet.
    Oi! Since when have I been myopic?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Spanish flu never went away.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    kinabalu said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Its with us for life...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856233/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-warns-Covid-19-never-away.html

    No we can't put it back in the bat. But hopefully medical advances inc vaccines will tame it sufficiently for life without Covid restrictions to resume by the end of next year at worst?
    I can't imagine western society will even manage another 14 months of restrictions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,437
    not_on_fire said:

    Watching Fox desperately trying to spin the Hunter Biden storm-in-a-teacup into something damaging is a joy to behold.

    Is that it? The "Hunter" non scandal?

    From the build up I thought it would be some really sleazy dynamite thing - Joe caught on tape bragging about sexual assault or something equally terminal to anybody's hopes of being elected to America's highest office.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,700
    eek said:

    Another Cummings story

    https://twitter.com/PeteBarronMedia/status/1318250684530237440

    Good. Make him pay every penny he owes. People have done jail time for owing less in Council Tax.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    The site is up and down more than a hookers knickers....
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1318186324432662528?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The site is up and down more than a hookers knickers....

    Typical. I sit down for a peaceful half hour discussing political catastrophe and first the site crashes and then somebody’s on hookers again.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,655
    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.
  • theenglishborntheenglishborn Posts: 164
    isam said:

    One of my mates, who is a bit of a conspiracy theorist, has been saying for a while that there is something that will leak on Biden which will derail his bid for POTUS. I didnt really believe him. Maybe what @Alistair linked to is it

    It will have to be something truly amazing, this election is so polarising that a multiple of events has come and gone and the polls have remain stupidly stable. With so few undecided voters it will have to be something that stops democrats voting for Biden and handing Trump the win.
    This is of course assuming there actually is anything, remember obamagate?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    However we slice this, it’s currently looking rather grim.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    I can't read the main article but my comment on Sunak is that he is going to let unemployment rip without making any attempt to soften the blow. Sink or swim. Adapt or die. Back to the Thatcherite philosophy of the 1980's
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
    Spanish age of infection

    Regarding the distribution by age, the group with the highest incidence is that of young people between 10 and 19 years old, there is also an increase in the age group between 20 and 29 years old, but to a lesser extent. Schools
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FF43 said:

    I can't read the main article but my comment on Sunak is that he is going to let unemployment rip without making any attempt to soften the blow. Sink or swim. Adapt or die. Back to the Thatcherite philosophy of the 1980's

    Sink or swim works in a free market.

    If the government is saying people can't trade by law it does not.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
    Schools are a big vector. The epidemiologist view seems to be that there is little to be achieved by partial closure. You are better doing occasional but total breaks.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    If R is back to 1 or below with schools open and if schools are a transmission vector then half term will provide an element of a natural firebreak even without other restrictions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,437
    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1318186324432662528?s=20

    Is that "Ivor" chap a quack?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,437
    isam said:

    One of my mates, who is a bit of a conspiracy theorist, has been saying for a while that there is something that will leak on Biden which will derail his bid for POTUS. I didnt really believe him. Maybe what @Alistair linked to is it

    Stick with not believing him. It's the best way with those types.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,012
    edited October 2020
    So Sweden isn't pursuing a herd immunity strategy?

    I am shocked.

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1318243484206235651
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,437
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I was into Modern Monetary Theory as the solution to this before MMT back in March when this wasn't a thing.

    If the theory is correct the whole world can cope with this as it makes zero difference everywhere beyond a set of money owed to central banks that will never be repaid.
    TGTBT bucket, I sense.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    not_on_fire said:

    Watching Fox desperately trying to spin the Hunter Biden storm-in-a-teacup into something damaging is a joy to behold.

    Someone posted a link to a Twitter feed that suggested the Hunter Biden scandal was now been brought up by voters.

    Be careful. That was the line about Cunningham-Tillis in NC and the immediate polls saying Cunningham's lead was the same or heightened. Everyone said the scandal hadn't resonated. And now Cunningham's lead has suddenly shrunk.

    These things take time to work through.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
    Schools are a big vector. The epidemiologist view seems to be that there is little to be achieved by partial closure. You are better doing occasional but total breaks.
    That’s amazing. Who would have thought taking a load of people with limited sense of hygiene and packing them tight into small poorly ventilated rooms and forcing them to talk to each other all day might spread a virus?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1318186324432662528?s=20

    Is that "Ivor" chap a quack?
    Example tweet of his: "The old normal is back in Sweden - because they followed the science. While you stupid, stupid morons go around with underpants on your faces and scared of your own shadows.... "
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,012
    Sunak wants to be PM, but he also knows his popularity is about to go mammary glands up at the end of the month.

    Says a lot that Sunak has been made to look a fourth rate operator by Andy Burnham (sic).
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Sweden isn't pursuing a herd immunity strategy?

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1318243484206235651

    "We can trace back a lot of the early problems to an unfortunate lack of preparedness in our nursing homes, which has been rectified and now works well.”

    In Sweden, as in the UK, around half of all Covid-19 deaths occurred in care homes. Care workers initially avoided wearing masks and gloves (some for fear of giving offence to residents) and were discouraged from admitting patients to hospital. “We did not manage to protect the most vulnerable people, the most elderly, despite our best intentions,” Prime Minister Löfven conceded."
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    Frost, Gove, Johnson, why not say you don't want a deal? Honestly, would we tolerate this infantile behaviour in our ten year olds? Maybe a five year would get a pass...

    https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1318233408947048449
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,655
    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
    30% of my daughter's school was sent home today after a pox case. 3 whole classes plus sibs in other classes. The kids that these siblings have been sat next to are still in school. And their school has been quite lucky - Teesside has had quite a lot of schools with quite a lot of cases.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    See if GM can lend you some support

    https://twitter.com/BBCRadioManc/status/1318146374420983814?s=20
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,192
    Looks like West Yorkshire could be in line for Tier 3.

    Early days, but any sign that it has made a difference on Merseyside?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,192
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    What is Sunak up to? Apart from looking damned fine I don't know.

    This T3 nonsense - it can't continue where each area gets to haggle with the Treasury for a package and for which bits of T3 apply to it. The government needs to accept that the pox is back, its tearing its way through a lot of communities, and without the resumption of the broad-scoped support from earlier this year people and companies are fucked.

    Resume the furlough. Extend the loans. And then impose Tier 3 and the same bloody Tier 3 wherever the science says it needs imposing. They need to stop cocking about.

    The problem is the most rapid vector of expansion right now would appear to be schools - cases up threefold in a fortnight and ninefold in the last month.

    And closing schools is something Johnson appears to have resolutely set his face against, even though the restrictions we are having to work under are fucking near impossible.
    Schools are a big vector. The epidemiologist view seems to be that there is little to be achieved by partial closure. You are better doing occasional but total breaks.
    That’s amazing. Who would have thought taking a load of people with limited sense of hygiene and packing them tight into small poorly ventilated rooms and forcing them to talk to each other all day might spread a virus?
    Wetherspoons?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1318266911533268996
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    edited October 2020
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Sweden isn't pursuing a herd immunity strategy?

    I am shocked.

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1318243484206235651

    "Unlike France, Germany, the UK and Italy, it did not close restaurants, bars, shops or gyms. Schools for pupils aged below 16 remained open, mask-wearing was not mandated, and public gatherings of fewer than 50 people were permitted."

    I would have preferred that personally, and see it as quite a big difference to what we had. I dont get how people are trying to claim that our lockdown was similar to that, I havent been to the gym since February, and only out for a drink with the boys a couple of times, in September and October, principally because they were all shut
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    It seems to me that there is a significant group within the NHS who don’t see the role of hospitals as primarily to save lives. Rather it is to avoid deaths occurring in hospitals. This is entirely consistent with the early decisions to discharge COVID patients into care homes, and to discourage non Covid emergency admissions even if it leads to increased deaths in the Community.

    I suspect one will find that in some cases targets and bonuses are consistent with this.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Its with us for life...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856233/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-warns-Covid-19-never-away.html

    So are tuberculosis, diphtheria, polio, hepatitis, measles, mumps, rubella, and whooping cough. Due to the vaccines (and TB especially isn’t an all-powerful perfectly effective one), although they’re endemic, they’re very rarely much of a concern for us day-to-day.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    Emmanuel Goldstein speaks

    https://twitter.com/AlistairHaimes/status/1318267511981416451?s=20
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1318267408344285189
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1318270800567373826
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    However we slice this, it’s currently looking rather grim.
    Of course. In the absence of a vaccine it is either continue on as best as possible or close everything down and keep printing money.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,655
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1318270800567373826

    Thats Trump's campaign manager> What a knobber.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    alex_ said:

    It seems to me that there is a significant group within the NHS who don’t see the role of hospitals as primarily to save lives. Rather it is to avoid deaths occurring in hospitals. This is entirely consistent with the early decisions to discharge COVID patients into care homes, and to discourage non Covid emergency admissions even if it leads to increased deaths in the Community.

    I suspect one will find that in some cases targets and bonuses are consistent with this.

    Deaths within 28 days of discharge count as hospital mortality, so you are wrong.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    See if GM can lend you some support

    https://twitter.com/BBCRadioManc/status/1318146374420983814?s=20
    ICU beds are always in demand, and often full, but if full of Covid cases, then are not available for admissions such as planned aortic aneyrysm and thoracic surgery or big cancer cases. It is perfectly possible for ICU beds to be at usual capacity, and to similtaneously having massive impact on activity and indirect mortality.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1318267408344285189

    As I mentioned before, stories take a couple of days to seep in to the polls - see Cunningham's affair as an example
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    It seems to me that there is a significant group within the NHS who don’t see the role of hospitals as primarily to save lives. Rather it is to avoid deaths occurring in hospitals. This is entirely consistent with the early decisions to discharge COVID patients into care homes, and to discourage non Covid emergency admissions even if it leads to increased deaths in the Community.

    I suspect one will find that in some cases targets and bonuses are consistent with this.

    Deaths within 28 days of discharge count as hospital mortality, so you are wrong.

    Fair enough. Although if people don't make it in the first place..,?
  • Olly2Olly2 Posts: 1
    Barnesian said:

    dixiedean said:

    Am unable to load the main site. Is that just me and my phone?
    Right now I shall remain in blissful ignorance of what Sunak's up to.

    Same here. I'm on Chrome on my PC.
    I have had to come onto a different device to comment. On my PC neither the vanilla nor PB site will open. No
    problem with any other site. Same thing happened Saturday for a couple of hours. No problem logging in from my wife's PC 12 inches away!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Sweden isn't pursuing a herd immunity strategy?

    I am shocked.

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1318243484206235651

    "Unlike France, Germany, the UK and Italy, it did not close restaurants, bars, shops or gyms. Schools for pupils aged below 16 remained open, mask-wearing was not mandated, and public gatherings of fewer than 50 people were permitted."

    I would have preferred that personally, and see it as quite a big difference to what we had. I dont get how people are trying to claim that our lockdown was similar to that, I havent been to the gym since February, and only out for a drink with the boys a couple of times, in September and October, principally because they were all shut
    Since February gyms and bars have been open for longer than they've been shut, so if you've only been out a couple of times (and not in March, July or August) then that matches the idea that people's own concerns more than restrictions end up driving people away from these premises.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
    As what?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Andy_Cooke said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Its with us for life...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8856233/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-warns-Covid-19-never-away.html

    So are tuberculosis, diphtheria, polio, hepatitis, measles, mumps, rubella, and whooping cough. Due to the vaccines (and TB especially isn’t an all-powerful perfectly effective one), although they’re endemic, they’re very rarely much of a concern for us day-to-day.
    Indeed. Well said.

    Anyone would think some on PB like drama just for the bloody sake of it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    It seems to me that there is a significant group within the NHS who don’t see the role of hospitals as primarily to save lives. Rather it is to avoid deaths occurring in hospitals. This is entirely consistent with the early decisions to discharge COVID patients into care homes, and to discourage non Covid emergency admissions even if it leads to increased deaths in the Community.

    I suspect one will find that in some cases targets and bonuses are consistent with this.

    Deaths within 28 days of discharge count as hospital mortality, so you are wrong.

    Sorry, a slight error, deaths within 30 days is the difference. This is the key indicator and how it is calculated:

    https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/ci-hub/summary-hospital-level-mortality-indicator-shmi

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,655
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
    Well quite. Why would the Conservative and Unionist Party care about the Union?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,512
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The site is up and down more than a hookers knickers....

    I’d go with more, owing to coronavirus
  • eekeek Posts: 30,799
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I was into Modern Monetary Theory as the solution to this before MMT back in March when this wasn't a thing.

    If the theory is correct the whole world can cope with this as it makes zero difference everywhere beyond a set of money owed to central banks that will never be repaid.
    TGTBT bucket, I sense.
    The theory is simple, Governments can borrow what they want as it doesn't impact interest rates.

    And you just have to look at interest rates between 2009 and now and compare it to Government borrowing. One is at rock bottom and has been for the last 11 years, the other is at sky high levels.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FF43 said:

    Frost, Gove, Johnson, why not say you don't want a deal? Honestly, would we tolerate this infantile behaviour in our ten year olds? Maybe a five year would get a pass...

    https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1318233408947048449

    Give over. The EU are currently saying the UK must be the ones to compromise and that they're not prepared to do so.

    How is the UK saying that there is no point talking unless the EU are prepared to compromise "infantile"?

    Talks are only worthwhile if both parties are prepared to compromise. If the EU's not we should wait them out until they are.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,512
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
    Well quite. Why would the Conservative and Unionist Party care about the Union?
    Well they’re not conserving anything, so they may as well not be unionist and go for the full house.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    not_on_fire said:

    Watching Fox desperately trying to spin the Hunter Biden storm-in-a-teacup into something damaging is a joy to behold.

    It IS damaging - to Trumpsky and the GOP.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,269
    edited October 2020
    Philip_Thompson said:

    isam said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Sweden isn't pursuing a herd immunity strategy?

    I am shocked.

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1318243484206235651

    "Unlike France, Germany, the UK and Italy, it did not close restaurants, bars, shops or gyms. Schools for pupils aged below 16 remained open, mask-wearing was not mandated, and public gatherings of fewer than 50 people were permitted."

    I would have preferred that personally, and see it as quite a big difference to what we had. I dont get how people are trying to claim that our lockdown was similar to that, I havent been to the gym since February, and only out for a drink with the boys a couple of times, in September and October, principally because they were all shut
    Since February gyms and bars have been open for longer than they've been shut, so if you've only been out a couple of times (and not in March, July or August) then that matches the idea that people's own concerns more than restrictions end up driving people away from these premises.
    More that i didn’t have any work for three months and have had to work 7 days a week since to try and make up for it, and I like to get to the pub for 930-10 as I finish work about 830 but now they close at 10 it’s not worth it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    It seems to me that there is a significant group within the NHS who don’t see the role of hospitals as primarily to save lives. Rather it is to avoid deaths occurring in hospitals. This is entirely consistent with the early decisions to discharge COVID patients into care homes, and to discourage non Covid emergency admissions even if it leads to increased deaths in the Community.

    I suspect one will find that in some cases targets and bonuses are consistent with this.

    Deaths within 28 days of discharge count as hospital mortality, so you are wrong.

    Fair enough. Although if people don't make it in the first place..,?
    Numbers of admissions is not under the control of managers, except where planned admissions are cancelled such as when there is no bed on ICU. Emergency admissions are determined by GPs and the ambulance services.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    BluestBlue said:

    He's - not unreasonably - looking at our £300 billion projected deficit this year, our 100% debt-to-GDP ratio, and wondering how far to keep digging. Should he cut his losses now and accept high unemployment, or end up possibly throwing good money after bad if the expected vaccines and treatments don't materialize? And how will these debts ever be paid back, or the interest managed?

    I continue to believe that formerly-unthinkable ideas along the lines of a coordinated global debt reset to pre-coronavirus levels may have to be considered, once the world wakes up to the implications of implementing the conventional remedies of austere spending and oppressive taxation for the next decade or two...

    I suggested that months ago but nobody picked it up.
    I was into Modern Monetary Theory as the solution to this before MMT back in March when this wasn't a thing.

    If the theory is correct the whole world can cope with this as it makes zero difference everywhere beyond a set of money owed to central banks that will never be repaid.
    TGTBT bucket, I sense.
    The theory is simple, Governments can borrow what they want as it doesn't impact interest rates.

    And you just have to look at interest rates between 2009 and now and compare it to Government borrowing. One is at rock bottom and has been for the last 11 years, the other is at sky high levels.
    Only because inflation is low and because the UK has been reducing its deficit every single year, its not an iron rule of nature.

    Had the UK made no effort to reduce its deficit then interest would have been higher.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    Back into T3 for you...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Jonathan said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
    As what?
    Parliamentary sovereignty.

    If you believe Parliament should be sovereign then that is quite reasonably more important than whether all elements of the union wish to remain within the UK. Elements of the union have left in the past, its not that big of a deal.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IS it conceivable that HUNTER Biden was named for the infamous HUNTER S. Thompson?

    OR could Hunter B. actually be HST's love child??

    IF any of the above is true, could it be the (2nd) October Surpise of 2020???
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    Olly2 said:

    No problem logging in from my wife's PC 12 inches away!

    Your machine is in Tier 3 lockdown. Her's is only tier 2...
  • eekeek Posts: 30,799
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318272366187859968

    https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1318275128254398465

    BoZo has killed the Union. Twat.

    The Union is not as important.
    How many people in Scotland would vote for Brexit but then decide that being in the UK is better than an independent Scotland.

    Then take that miniscule number and deduct those who don't think Boris is a twat...

    The Union is screwed.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    So Britain ceasing to exist is less important to Phillip than Britain leaving the EU. What a pathetic state of affairs.

    Reminds me of my Zx Spectrum playing Monopoly. The AI would do anything to complete a set, including giving me the properties in the set.

    Utterly self defeating.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    Bad news in Leicester. Last week looked to have levelled off then this:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1318242504274251781?s=20

    Numbers are such that theatre recovery is being converted to overflow Covid ICU again. Not only are the hospital numbers up, but this significantly impacts on surgical turnover for other conditions.

    So not my usual chirpy self...

    Back into T3 for you...
    Leicester has been in Tier 2 or worse since 23rd March. We have never been out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1318277462497890311
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,286
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunak wants to be PM, but he also knows his popularity is about to go mammary glands up at the end of the month.

    Says a lot that Sunak has been made to look a fourth rate operator by Andy Burnham (sic).

    Too much, too young.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    Jonathan said:

    So Britain ceasing to exist is less important to Phillip than Britain leaving the EU.

    Makes sense to the Little Englanders...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,167
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1318277462497890311

    Making the T3 negotiable was up there with one of the biggest mistakes of this system.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    As with Trump and Fauci, so with BoZo...

    https://twitter.com/LucyMPowell/status/1318279010678378497
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/gavinesler/status/1318279197714993152
This discussion has been closed.

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