It's also worth noting that many of our children have to eat halal meat, whether they want to or not, to accommodate Muslims, likewise diners at takeways etc.
But Muslims can refuse to serve us alcohol or pork even when we have patiently queued to do so, and when we have no desire to offend.
Grotesque.
When are people forced to eat halal meat? If you don't want it you can buy from another takeaway.
Much supermarket lamb is halal, but not labelled as such. However I believe in the UK at least it is slaughtered in such a way that the animal is stunned in a non-lethal way (electrically I think) before its throat is cut. Islam apparently accepts this as long as the animal is not dead before it is bled out.
"Muslim staff working for Marks & Spencer have been given permission to refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork products
One customer, who declined to be named, said: “I had one bottle of champagne, and the lady, who was wearing a headscarf, was very apologetic but said she could not serve me. She told me to wait until another member of staff was available."
We are,just this morning we have our EU friendly media (BBC,sky) giving the Bulgarian president a good slant on attacking our own PM.
The Bulgarian president going mad because Cameron tightening up our benefits for new EU countries,why doesn't our media look into if these new eastern European countries if they are doing a softly approach of some sort of ethnic cleansing of the roma people to britain
Andrew Mitchell was sacked as a minster for allegedly using the word pleb. However, he is a man and educated at a public school. Anna Soubray is a woman educated at a comprehensive and Cameron thinks he needs more of these.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
Mr. Quincel, I may be wrong but I think some schools serve only halal meat.
While I could well believe that a small number of schools with a large number of Muslim pupils only serve halal meat, I don't buy that this is a meaningful restriction on our freedom. If nothing else, there is likely always another school in the area which doesn't and since the right-wing in Britain has often said that people should just move to new areas to find work etc I don't buy that they can credibly draw the line at moving schools.
Fool. Entire London boroughs serve halal-only. What are the parents meant to do? Move to a different borough?
Firstly, there is a difference between foolishness and ignorance. The latter does not imply the former by any stretch,
Secondly, while I'd agree with you all too often the answer to that question seems to be 'Yes' when it comes to poverty. What are key workers like nurses meant to do as rents increase in London and council housing isn't built fast enough? Frankly, I'm not convinced the situation we're discussing is nearly as harmful as that, yet where is your sympathy and concern there?
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I like the Anna Soubry comment on Nigel Farage. His po-faced response, however, shows that he doesn't like it up him.
Me too. And hasn't pb become a bunch of prudes? Oh Maude. Please, another sherry and the smelling salts...oooh, I feel quite dizzy.
Prediction: this'll be a one day wonder, to be overtaken completely by the hols (when we'll all be saying things we will probably regret)....no hits for Anna, she'll be fine as a Minister and in Broxtowe.
Nah, she's f*cked. She will now never be promoted, and she will lose her seat in 2015.
The next reshuffle will be about a year from now....and this will long be forgotten by then. Yes, she could lose her ultra marginal seat in 2015 and if, as you are predicting, that Miliband will be the next PM, then she definitely will.
I'm rather more confident about the national outcome, in which case she stands a more than reasonable chance of holding on. Maybe Broxtowe constituents like having a 'character' as their MP. I'm sure Nick Palmer has many qualities but...
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death
Unlikely that it is killed instantly, and in fact if it did so it would violate the basic principle, which is that the heart is still beating when the throat is cut so that it is completely bled out. Which in hot countries is something of a food hygiene necessity.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I'll agree with that. There should be no reason for hiding it, and all it does is encourage suspicion as to the meat when there needn't be.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
What makes you think I knew that was your concern? Also, yes says me. Also says various regulators and so on just like any other meat. If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie.
I like the Anna Soubry comment on Nigel Farage. His po-faced response, however, shows that he doesn't like it up him.
Me too. And hasn't pb become a bunch of prudes? Oh Maude. Please, another sherry and the smelling salts...oooh, I feel quite dizzy.
Prediction: this'll be a one day wonder, to be overtaken completely by the hols (when we'll all be saying things we will probably regret)....no hits for Anna, she'll be fine as a Minister and in Broxtowe.
Nah, she's f*cked. She will now never be promoted, and she will lose her seat in 2015.
The next reshuffle will be about a year from now....and this will long be forgotten by then. Yes, she could lose her ultra marginal seat in 2015 and if, as you are predicting, that Miliband will be the next PM, then she definitely will.
I'm rather more confident about the national outcome, in which case she stands a more than reasonable chance of holding on. Maybe Broxtowe constituents like having a 'character' as their MP. I'm sure Nick Palmer has many qualities but.....
It may be forgotten by then but she can't stop putting her foot in it.
Farage really doesn't have to do anything does he? his opponents just keep handing him victory after victory.
Today we have Soubry, and we also learn that M&S are allowing their muslim staff to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers and to ask them to use another till. Politely of course (that's very nice of them).
Is there a proper (non-dodgy-British-newspaper) source for this? As described the policy sounds really bad for Muslim staff too. Customers will avoid the tills of Muslim-looking people, which is going to be weird and uncomfortable, and potentially prevent stores from hiring them if they think they can get away with it,
I have to say I'm a bit suspicious of the story. I could see that M & S might deploy Muslim staff in roles where they don't have to sell alcohol, but I find it hard to believe any supermarket would actually allow staff to refuse to serve a customer.
Right, it seems a bit unlikely doesn't it, at least as a considered policy, although you can imagine some over-promoted manager in a single store coming up with it. It's probably best to wait until some unlucky person at M&S has been dragged back to the office and worked out what's going on and given a proper explanation without their words being filtered through a British newspaper.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I'll agree with that. There should be no reason for hiding it, and all it does is encourage suspicion as to the meat when there needn't be.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
What makes you think I knew that was your concern? Also, yes says me. Also says various regulators and so on just like any other meat. If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie.
"If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie."
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
I think it is the other way round. Certain cuts of lamb are not very popular in the supermarket but are popular in certain ethnic communities - so you can maximise the value of a carcase by ensuring it is halal.
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death.Who can be against that?
The cutting of the major artery does not convey instant death: I have known a man who has had his major [left-neck] artery slashed but had his life saved by a policeman (who understood the pressure points). I hope that my initial impression [that you work in England's Health Service] is wrong...!
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death.Who can be against that?
Again, it's the double standards that enrages people. The UK does everything possible to accommodate Muslim "differentness", but there is no reciprocality.
If you go to court cases about Christian workers wanting adjustments and so on you'll find that there is reciprocity. But since so many of the basic systems (Christian holidays being public holidays and so on) are based on Christianity, much less adjustments are needed on a case-by-case tweaking.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I'll agree with that. There should be no reason for hiding it, and all it does is encourage suspicion as to the meat when there needn't be.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
What makes you think I knew that was your concern? Also, yes says me. Also says various regulators and so on just like any other meat. If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie.
"If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie."
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I'll agree with that. There should be no reason for hiding it, and all it does is encourage suspicion as to the meat when there needn't be.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
What makes you think I knew that was your concern? Also, yes says me. Also says various regulators and so on just like any other meat. If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie.
"If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie."
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
I'll agree with that. There should be no reason for hiding it, and all it does is encourage suspicion as to the meat when there needn't be.
If a small number of schools with a large number of Christian pupils refused to serve Muslims halal meat would that be a restriction? Forcing others to adopt your customs and values is by definition a restriction on freedom.
Firstly, Islam prohibits followers from eating non-halal meat. Christianity does not prevent followers from eating kosher, halal or any other meat. Secondly, how is being forced to eat halal meat any worse than there being very limited options on the menu each day?
How the animals are killed.
Halal slaughter techniques (especially in the modern era) are both safe and ethical. There is no reason for that to be a concern for anyone.
Says you.
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
What makes you think I knew that was your concern? Also, yes says me. Also says various regulators and so on just like any other meat. If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie.
"If you have a problem with the system in general I suggest you go veggie."
Perfect example.
Perfect example of?
Of you not getting it.
Well with compelling arguments like that, I'm sure I'll get it soon. Until then, I'm off for lunch. Ironically enough, it's lamb today.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
If you go to court cases about Christian workers wanting adjustments and so on you'll find that there is reciprocity. But since so many of the basic systems (Christian holidays being public holidays and so on) are based on Christianity, much less adjustments are needed on a case-by-case tweaking.
Although a lot of those were pre-Christian holidays that Christianity managed to adapt itself to...
If you go to court cases about Christian workers wanting adjustments and so on you'll find that there is reciprocity. But since so many of the basic systems (Christian holidays being public holidays and so on) are based on Christianity, much less adjustments are needed on a case-by-case tweaking.
Ok: Christmas, two days at Easter and Whitsun (dubious). Against [in England] Boxing-Day* New-Year's day, May-day and August....
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death.Who can be against that?
The cutting of the major artery does not convey instant death: I have known a man who has had his major [left-neck] artery slashed but had his life saved by a policeman (who understood the pressure points). I hope that my initial impression [that you work in England's Health Service] is wrong...!
I think in Halal, the aim is to cut the windpipe,carotid artery and jugular vein in one swift motion probably resulting in instant unconsciousness and a rather quick death.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
It's the other way round - by labelling only some meat as halal the supermarkets can create an artificial shortage of it and charge Muslims a premium for buying it.
If you go to court cases about Christian workers wanting adjustments and so on you'll find that there is reciprocity. But since so many of the basic systems (Christian holidays being public holidays and so on) are based on Christianity, much less adjustments are needed on a case-by-case tweaking.
Although a lot of those were pre-Christian holidays that Christianity managed to adapt itself to...
Farage really doesn't have to do anything does he? his opponents just keep handing him victory after victory.
Today we have Soubry, and we also learn that M&S are allowing their muslim staff to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers and to ask them to use another till. Politely of course (that's very nice of them).
Is there a proper (non-dodgy-British-newspaper) source for this? As described the policy sounds really bad for Muslim staff too. Customers will avoid the tills of Muslim-looking people, which is going to be weird and uncomfortable, and potentially prevent stores from hiring them if they think they can get away with it,
I have to say I'm a bit suspicious of the story. I could see that M & S might deploy Muslim staff in roles where they don't have to sell alcohol, but I find it hard to believe any supermarket would actually allow staff to refuse to serve a customer.
Right, it seems a bit unlikely doesn't it, at least as a considered policy, although you can imagine some over-promoted manager in a single store coming up with it. It's probably best to wait until some unlucky person at M&S has been dragged back to the office and worked out what's going on and given a proper explanation without their words being filtered through a British newspaper.
It does beggar belief. The articles on the paper websites do seem to be saying that It's official M&S policy, though.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
edit: i'm talking about the schools, hospitals, councils btw where it's not being bought individually labelled.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
If a Ukip politician had said that a Tory female MP like having fingers put inside her, and that Christians shouldn't have to serve Muslims dressed in burqas the outrage would be tenfold what it is now.
@antifrank comment another example of how double standards are allowed... Imagine a man saying similar about a woman...
The Farage Soubry thing will probably help ukip, so no big deal
The Muslim Marks and Spencer's thing is all too predictable, and the establishment and excuse makers only have themselves to blame
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Quite frankly she was lucky to get away with a sacking. 40 lashes is surely more appropriate in modern Britain.
Yet people on this very site will go to all kinds of lengths to pretend that a segregated society doesn't exist... and anyone who says it is gets criticised for mentioning it
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death.Who can be against that?
Well obviously there are some who just foam at the mouth at the mere mention of muslims, particularly on PB, but after the horsemeat debacle any supermarket should be aware of just how hair trigger the tabloids can be on food scare stories and act accordingly.
As for Soubry, when you see the footage there's a bit of a context but not that much. She made a fool out or herself and though the christmas sherry might have been flowing in the BBC green room she is supposed to be a defence minister and not some desperately 'zany' twit like Fluffycolinhunt.
A wee 'the way the world is going' metaphor for Christmas.
'Johnston Press and the Scotsman Publications are to quit their shared home at Barclay House in Edinburgh's Holyrood Road next year, to be replaced as tenants by the world-leading Scottish video games maker Rockstar North. The Sunday Herald understands that Rockstar, whose latest game Grand Theft Auto V broke records with sales of $800 million (£500m) within 24 hours of its September release, will start moving into the landmark building in 2014, following alterations. It is understood that the plc and the Scotsman group, whose titles include The Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and the Evening News, have yet to find new headquarters in the capital.'
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
A wee 'the way the world is going' metaphor for Christmas.
'Johnston Press and the Scotsman Publications are to quit their shared home at Barclay House in Edinburgh's Holyrood Road next year, to be replaced as tenants by the world-leading Scottish video games maker Rockstar North. The Sunday Herald understands that Rockstar, whose latest game Grand Theft Auto V broke records with sales of $800 million (£500m) within 24 hours of its September release, will start moving into the landmark building in 2014, following alterations. It is understood that the plc and the Scotsman group, whose titles include The Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and the Evening News, have yet to find new headquarters in the capital.'
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh. The press have lived off of fake outrage and 'moral panic' GTA stories for years, not least the Hootsman.
Farage really doesn't have to do anything does he? his opponents just keep handing him victory after victory.
Today we have Soubry, and we also learn that M&S are allowing their muslim staff to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers and to ask them to use another till. Politely of course (that's very nice of them).
Is there a proper (non-dodgy-British-newspaper) source for this? As described the policy sounds really bad for Muslim staff too. Customers will avoid the tills of Muslim-looking people, which is going to be weird and uncomfortable, and potentially prevent stores from hiring them if they think they can get away with it,
I have to say I'm a bit suspicious of the story. I could see that M & S might deploy Muslim staff in roles where they don't have to sell alcohol, but I find it hard to believe any supermarket would actually allow staff to refuse to serve a customer.
The Telegraph say it's legit.
"Muslim staff working for Marks & Spencer have been given permission to refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork products
One customer, who declined to be named, said: “I had one bottle of champagne, and the lady, who was wearing a headscarf, was very apologetic but said she could not serve me. She told me to wait until another member of staff was available."
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
Ok. So how does it actually work again?
Well if it's not teachers at every school taking a vote each day and swanning down the local supermarket with a shopping trolley maybe the sourcing is done centrally by some small lobbyable part of the state bureaucracy.
Farage really doesn't have to do anything does he? his opponents just keep handing him victory after victory.
Today we have Soubry, and we also learn that M&S are allowing their muslim staff to refuse to sell alcohol and pork to customers and to ask them to use another till. Politely of course (that's very nice of them).
Is there a proper (non-dodgy-British-newspaper) source for this? As described the policy sounds really bad for Muslim staff too. Customers will avoid the tills of Muslim-looking people, which is going to be weird and uncomfortable, and potentially prevent stores from hiring them if they think they can get away with it,
I have to say I'm a bit suspicious of the story. I could see that M & S might deploy Muslim staff in roles where they don't have to sell alcohol, but I find it hard to believe any supermarket would actually allow staff to refuse to serve a customer.
The Telegraph say it's legit.
"Muslim staff working for Marks & Spencer have been given permission to refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork products
One customer, who declined to be named, said: “I had one bottle of champagne, and the lady, who was wearing a headscarf, was very apologetic but said she could not serve me. She told me to wait until another member of staff was available."
A wee 'the way the world is going' metaphor for Christmas.
'Johnston Press and the Scotsman Publications are to quit their shared home at Barclay House in Edinburgh's Holyrood Road next year, to be replaced as tenants by the world-leading Scottish video games maker Rockstar North. The Sunday Herald understands that Rockstar, whose latest game Grand Theft Auto V broke records with sales of $800 million (£500m) within 24 hours of its September release, will start moving into the landmark building in 2014, following alterations. It is understood that the plc and the Scotsman group, whose titles include The Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and the Evening News, have yet to find new headquarters in the capital.'
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh. The press have lived off of fake outrage and 'moral panic' GTA stories for years, not least the Hootsman.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
Ok. So how does it actually work again?
Well if it's not teachers at every school taking a vote each day and swanning down the local supermarket with a shopping trolley maybe the sourcing is done centrally by some small lobbyable part of the state bureaucracy.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
Ok. So how does it actually work again?
Well if it's not teachers at every school taking a vote each day and swanning down the local supermarket with a shopping trolley maybe the sourcing is done centrally by some small lobbyable part of the state bureaucracy.
Just a wild guess.
You mean there is a secret Government agency responsible for infiltrating things we don't want to eat into our food? Coo. That explains the horsemeat I suppose.
I'm not overly fussed about eating halal, aside from the animal welfare aspect of it. You'd be surprised just how much meat sold in this country is halal. Not be ng told it is halal, is a little sneaky, however.
What's the point of not telling customers the meat is halal? Sounds a bit odd - unless halal meat is cheaper for some reason.
Because if they told people it was halal then those people who objected wouldn't buy it.
Maybe, but you'd have thought the point of stocking it was to sell it to people who did, for superstitious reasons, wish to know that that's what it was.
Think of it from the wholesalers point of view. They have two groups of people wanting meat done a different way. They could have the expense of doing it the two ways or do it one way and just not tell one of the groups.
Indeed, but for that to work there has to be a widespread assumption among the superstitious that the meat is halal while the opposite belief is held by those of a different view. How do you arrange that?
You tell one group it's halal and don't tell the other group.
How? Secret adverts that only enter muslim minds? Whispering shop staff loitering near meat counters on the lookout for scarves and beards? It's no big deal, I just find it puzzling.
Schools. No adverts. No shop counters.
A conspiracy of teachers paid by supermarkets then? Fair enough. I know less about this than you. Surprised there's been no whistle-blowing though.
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
No adverts. No shop counters. No supermarkets either.
Ok. So how does it actually work again?
Well if it's not teachers at every school taking a vote each day and swanning down the local supermarket with a shopping trolley maybe the sourcing is done centrally by some small lobbyable part of the state bureaucracy.
Just a wild guess.
You mean there is a secret Government agency responsible for infiltrating things we don't want to eat into our food? Coo. That explains the horsemeat I suppose.
No i think there is a non-secret bit of the state bureaucracy which buys meat wholesale.
Ken Clarke, the Cabinet Minister, this morning suggested people who vote for Ukip are "angry" and "don't care" about the public finances. The party's success in the local elections was a protest at the tough economic climate, he said.
First Soubry's anal probing now Ken Clarke pipes up since he is bound to persuade tory kipper waverers. Some kippers might be a touch po-faced about the whole thing but the tory PR machine is as proving as incompetent as ever. Bodes well for the EU elections if this the best they muster to tackle Farage and UKIP.
Official Labour figures should probably keep schtum on social media over this one though. When your opponent is digging a hole best thing to do is let them keep digging.
Sure NPxMP will be diplomatic about the matter on here
I won't comment on the story, but in general terms Broxtowe currently has IMO a negative incumbency bonus, more due to perceived attitudes to constituents than anything on TV.
On something I know more definitively about - animal welfare people like me have always been very critical of halal, though I think we'd qualify it by saying that non-halal slaughterhouses aren't usually nice places either. There is however a little-known twist - Elliott Morley (before he got enmeshed in the expenses scandal) as a Defra Minister persuaded all but one of the halal slaughterhouses to quietly introduce pre-stunning, which is the key issue for us animal types. It's never been publicised since successive governments don't want to get the owners hassled by fundamentalists.
Official Labour figures should probably keep schtum on social media over this one though. When your opponent is digging a hole best thing to do is let them keep digging.
Sure NPxMP will be diplomatic about the matter on here
I won't comment on the story, but in general terms Broxtowe currently has IMO a negative incumbency bonus, more due to perceived attitudes to constituents than anything on TV.
On something I know more definitively about - animal welfare people like me have always been very critical of halal, though I think we'd qualify it by saying that non-halal slaughterhouses aren't usually nice places either. There is however a little-known twist - Elliott Morley (before he got enmeshed in the expenses scandal) as a Defra Minister persuaded all but one of the halal slaughterhouses to quietly introduce pre-stunning, which is the key issue for us animal types. It's never been publicised since successive governments don't want to get the owners hassled by fundamentalists.
You would say that wouldn't you, I mean you say you wont comment on the story but in the next few words you slag off your opponent.
Official Labour figures should probably keep schtum on social media over this one though. When your opponent is digging a hole best thing to do is let them keep digging.
Sure NPxMP will be diplomatic about the matter on here
I won't comment on the story, but in general terms Broxtowe currently has IMO a negative incumbency bonus, more due to perceived attitudes to constituents than anything on TV.
On something I know more definitively about - animal welfare people like me have always been very critical of halal, though I think we'd qualify it by saying that non-halal slaughterhouses aren't usually nice places either. There is however a little-known twist - Elliott Morley (before he got enmeshed in the expenses scandal) as a Defra Minister persuaded all but one of the halal slaughterhouses to quietly introduce pre-stunning, which is the key issue for us animal types. It's never been publicised since successive governments don't want to get the owners hassled by fundamentalists.
You would say that wouldn't you, I mean you say you wont comment on the story but in the next few words you slag off your opponent.
Nick Palmer a two-faced hypocrite? My my, you do surprise me [/shocked]
In the interests of balance I can't stand Soubry either.
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
Was surprised to hear that a relative received a parking ticket in a supermarket car park, she had gone over the 2 hour limit, due to her slowness and the queues at the store's tills.
Plenty of other outrage stories over disproportionate private car parking fines for transgressing 'their rules', not quite as fun as bashing M and S.
A few dropped bottles of wine by the tills might sort out M and S...
Sam1979 @back_samuel So, Monday...Goodbye M&S credit card/bank card/insurance, so long lovely M&S din dins. Tis sad but must be done. I don't do pandering...
There must be thousands just like him going off M&S
Anyone who is a fan of test cricket should be watching the SA/Ind match now
Looks like they might do it...
The South African commentators seem a lot less partisan than the English ones on Sky... or is it just Botham?
It's a great match. @Pulpstar did you do anything with those odds from last night? I sincerely hope you did and will be seriously quids in after another 67 runs...
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
"No i think there is a non-secret bit of the state bureaucracy which buys meat wholesale."
And distributes it nationally to schools, thus allowing muslims accurately to infer that most supermarket meat is halal.
I don't know what point you're arguing. The point i'm arguing is that switching meat supply to schools, hospitals etc wouldn't involve any kind of massively complicated operation if the meat is sourced wholesale. It would just take a bit of central lobbying.
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
You don't do irony very well, do you?
I wasn't being ironic!
[wah shield up] No, but isam was. Which was the point. [/shield]
Anyone who is a fan of test cricket should be watching the SA/Ind match now
I was watching it this morning when a howler from the umpire put out Kallis who was scoring a run a ball. When you take that into account this is an incredible batting performance.
Offence Police @OffencePolice Next time you're caught shoplifting at M&S, tell them your religion forbids you from paying for things. They're so shit thick it might work.
Plastic Aussie @PlasticAussie @marksandspencer so now that they can refuse this how long before they can refuse to serve gay customers or single unaccompanied females?
The Daily Mirror is not and never was a right wing newspaper. In it's heyday 1940 -1965 it was a deeply left wing paper, strongly supporting the Labour Party and Labour governments. It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
You don't do irony very well, do you?
I wasn't being ironic!
[wah shield up] No, but isam was. Which was the point. [/shield]
Well, I'll use Xmas as an excuse for being thick today.
Offence Police @OffencePolice Next time you're caught shoplifting at M&S, tell them your religion forbids you from paying for things. They're so shit thick it might work.
Maybe Farage can pull his finger out, and rally UKIP to the anti M&S cause?
Ken Clarke, the Cabinet Minister, this morning suggested people who vote for Ukip are "angry" and "don't care" about the public finances. The party's success in the local elections was a protest at the tough economic climate, he said.
First Soubry's anal probing now Ken Clarke pipes up since he is bound to persuade tory kipper waverers. Some kippers might be a touch po-faced about the whole thing but the tory PR machine is as proving as incompetent as ever. Bodes well for the EU elections if this the best they muster to tackle Farage and UKIP.It's surprising when professional politicians get the basics wrong.
Does Mr Clarke think that insulting voters will induce them to vote for a Conservative candidate?
Labour MP Barry Sheerman, said: “The Anna Soubry comment on Nigel Farage plumbs new depths in political debate and [David] Cameron should sack her now.”
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh. The press have lived off of fake outrage and 'moral panic' GTA stories for years, not least the Hootsman.
The way the Scotsman's going, it'll be 'restructured' into 2 blokes in a portakabin in West Lothian by the end of 2014.
Hmm - the article does say "the Sunday Herald understands" as nobody is admitting it. But to put it into context, those not familiar with the area need to know that
1. the building in question was specially built in 1999 to give the Scotsman (then owned by Messrs Barclay brothers) to give it a high profile home practically next door to the then new Scottish Parliament (as one might guess from the Holyrood Road address). Which says a lot about JP and the Scotsman's views on their relationships with Holyrood - or whether they can afford to maintain it. (It is the building notorious for the graffiti which appeared on the front, which is very deplorable of course, but it did not help that the unionists pretty much accused Mr Salmond of personally masterminding it ...)
2. Johnston Press own the Scotsman, AFAIK
3. Johnston Press shares are a small fraction of what they ysed to be
4. The Scotsman is rabidly unionist - to the degree that the Scotsman's Sunday paper went to the extent of digitally airbrushing a swastika over the St Andrew's Cross in the Saltire flag being held by some Scots chaps, in an article trying to claim that the indy folk are old fashioned Blood and Soil racist nationalists, like those chaps who used to go around in brown shirts and red, white and black armbands. (In fact, apart from the odd eccentric, the one who did get banged up come WW2 was a local Unionist MP ...). Trouble was they forgot that the original photo happens to be very well known, being used if I recall right as the cover image of one of the most widely published histories of modern Scotland. [I don't regard this as triggering Godwin's Law as it is germane and relevant]. I don't mind sendible unionist arguments in a balanced newspaper, but this ...
5. The Scotsman is pretty much at the red end of the spectrum for rate of newspaper circulation collapse in the UK, and is already circling the bath outlet, judging from the way it has cut down its content in recent months.
How far those facts are interconnected, I've often wondered. But upsetting at least 1/3 of your circulation right away, and insulting the intelligence of the rest, does not seem the way to become a successful press baron.
And it used to be one of the very best newspapers in the UK!
What's all this pompous outrage about Soubry and Nigel Farage's bottom? Paul Keating's description of Malcolm Frazer, made in the Australian parliament, is one of the most famous political insults in history:
'You look Like an Easter Island statue with an arse full of razor blades.'
Having unloaded all my shopping onto the counter at M&S, if the assistant refuses to serve me because there is alcohol, then I will expect the assistant to move to another counter and have a different assistant. If not then the shopping will remain on the counter and I will go elsewhere for better service.
This will not need to happen too many times before M&S change their policy. We are fortunate to have competitive markets in this country.
Comments
The Bulgarian president going mad because Cameron tightening up our benefits for new EU countries,why doesn't our media look into if these new eastern European countries if they are doing a softly approach of some sort of ethnic cleansing of the roma people to britain
When in 2012 Anna Soubray was described by a Tory backbencher as a train wreck waiting to happen, Andrew Mitchell came to her defence, see
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2201131/Anna-Soubry-accused-train-wreck-waiting-happen-branding-assisted-suicide-law-ridiculous.html
Andrew Mitchell was sacked as a minster for allegedly using the word pleb. However, he is a man and educated at a public school. Anna Soubray is a woman educated at a comprehensive and Cameron thinks he needs more of these.
Secondly, while I'd agree with you all too often the answer to that question seems to be 'Yes' when it comes to poverty. What are key workers like nurses meant to do as rents increase in London and council housing isn't built fast enough? Frankly, I'm not convinced the situation we're discussing is nearly as harmful as that, yet where is your sympathy and concern there?
Halal meat is only meat in which the animal is killed instantly resulting in a painless death.Who can be against that?
edit: and if you knew that was what the argument was about why ask what it was about?
I'm rather more confident about the national outcome, in which case she stands a more than reasonable chance of holding on. Maybe Broxtowe constituents like having a 'character' as their MP. I'm sure Nick Palmer has many qualities but...
Perfect example.
:feckwit:
* Pub beckons! Heck...!
edit: i'm talking about the schools, hospitals, councils btw where it's not being bought individually labelled.
@antifrank comment another example of how double standards are allowed... Imagine a man saying similar about a woman...
The Farage Soubry thing will probably help ukip, so no big deal
The Muslim Marks and Spencer's thing is all too predictable, and the establishment and excuse makers only have themselves to blame
As for Soubry, when you see the footage there's a bit of a context but not that much.
She made a fool out or herself and though the christmas sherry might have been flowing in the BBC green room she is supposed to be a defence minister and not some desperately 'zany' twit like Fluffycolinhunt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J0nOUeNQbM
'Johnston Press and the Scotsman Publications are to quit their shared home at Barclay House in Edinburgh's Holyrood Road next year, to be replaced as tenants by the world-leading Scottish video games maker Rockstar North.
The Sunday Herald understands that Rockstar, whose latest game Grand Theft Auto V broke records with sales of $800 million (£500m) within 24 hours of its September release, will start moving into the landmark building in 2014, following alterations.
It is understood that the plc and the Scotsman group, whose titles include The Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and the Evening News, have yet to find new headquarters in the capital.'
http://tinyurl.com/p7h9f92
I was assuming the reason would be more prosaically profit-based.
There is an element of why now about that 'fuss' over Muslim staff and booze. Will the share price tomorrow morning, head southwards for a while?
I'm rather partial to halal goat meat.
Just a wild guess.
Lewis Johnston @lewisadam
Thus is no ordinary commercial suicide. This is M&S commercial suicide!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lee-rigby-killer-michael-adebolajo-2951615
On something I know more definitively about - animal welfare people like me have always been very critical of halal, though I think we'd qualify it by saying that non-halal slaughterhouses aren't usually nice places either. There is however a little-known twist - Elliott Morley (before he got enmeshed in the expenses scandal) as a Defra Minister persuaded all but one of the halal slaughterhouses to quietly introduce pre-stunning, which is the key issue for us animal types. It's never been publicised since successive governments don't want to get the owners hassled by fundamentalists.
The CEO and his immediate underlings should be booted out by shareholders, subito.
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/17/marks-and-spencer-gender-neutral-toys
Classy.
You would say that wouldn't you, I mean you say you wont comment on the story but in the next few words you slag off your opponent.
"No i think there is a non-secret bit of the state bureaucracy which buys meat wholesale."
And distributes it nationally to schools, thus allowing muslims accurately to infer that most supermarket meat is halal.
In the interests of balance I can't stand Soubry either.
It was, despite that a well edited and well run paper with some very fine journalists; Cassandra, (William O'Connor), being one I relished in my youth.
Nowadays, it is not even a shadow of it's former self, everything about it has become debased except the name on the masthead.
The South African commentators seem a lot less partisan than the English ones on Sky... or is it just Botham?
Plenty of other outrage stories over disproportionate private car parking fines for transgressing 'their rules', not quite as fun as bashing M and S.
A few dropped bottles of wine by the tills might sort out M and S...
So, Monday...Goodbye M&S credit card/bank card/insurance, so long lovely M&S din dins. Tis sad but must be done. I don't do pandering...
There must be thousands just like him going off M&S
@Pulpstar did you do anything with those odds from last night?
I sincerely hope you did and will be seriously quids in after another 67 runs...
And distributes it nationally to schools, thus allowing muslims accurately to infer that most supermarket meat is halal.
I don't know what point you're arguing. The point i'm arguing is that switching meat supply to schools, hospitals etc wouldn't involve any kind of massively complicated operation if the meat is sourced wholesale. It would just take a bit of central lobbying.
No, but isam was.
Which was the point.
[/shield]
Next time you're caught shoplifting at M&S, tell them your religion forbids you from paying for things. They're so shit thick it might work.
@marksandspencer so now that they can refuse this how long before they can refuse to serve gay customers or single unaccompanied females?
It's becoming an Avalanche on Twitter!
Does Mr Clarke think that insulting voters will induce them to vote for a Conservative candidate?
- soubry
- halal meat at M&S
- muslims been eating non-halal meat for years that they thought was
http://markreckons.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/political-outrage-template-article.html
I really can't believe Soubry made that remark.... It's just incredible
Trying to work out if that was deliberate.
http://tinyurl.com/p7h9f92
You would need a heart of stone not to laugh. The press have lived off of fake outrage and 'moral panic' GTA stories for years, not least the Hootsman. The way the Scotsman's going, it'll be 'restructured' into 2 blokes in a portakabin in West Lothian by the end of 2014.
Hmm - the article does say "the Sunday Herald understands" as nobody is admitting it. But to put it into context, those not familiar with the area need to know that
1. the building in question was specially built in 1999 to give the Scotsman (then owned by Messrs Barclay brothers) to give it a high profile home practically next door to the then new Scottish Parliament (as one might guess from the Holyrood Road address). Which says a lot about JP and the Scotsman's views on their relationships with Holyrood - or whether they can afford to maintain it. (It is the building notorious for the graffiti which appeared on the front, which is very deplorable of course, but it did not help that the unionists pretty much accused Mr Salmond of personally masterminding it ...)
2. Johnston Press own the Scotsman, AFAIK
3. Johnston Press shares are a small fraction of what they ysed to be
4. The Scotsman is rabidly unionist - to the degree that the Scotsman's Sunday paper went to the extent of digitally airbrushing a swastika over the St Andrew's Cross in the Saltire flag being held by some Scots chaps, in an article trying to claim that the indy folk are old fashioned Blood and Soil racist nationalists, like those chaps who used to go around in brown shirts and red, white and black armbands. (In fact, apart from the odd eccentric, the one who did get banged up come WW2 was a local Unionist MP ...). Trouble was they forgot that the original photo happens to be very well known, being used if I recall right as the cover image of one of the most widely published histories of modern Scotland. [I don't regard this as triggering Godwin's Law as it is germane and relevant]. I don't mind sendible unionist arguments in a balanced newspaper, but this ...
5. The Scotsman is pretty much at the red end of the spectrum for rate of newspaper circulation collapse in the UK, and is already circling the bath outlet, judging from the way it has cut down its content in recent months.
How far those facts are interconnected, I've often wondered. But upsetting at least 1/3 of your circulation right away, and insulting the intelligence of the rest, does not seem the way to become a successful press baron.
And it used to be one of the very best newspapers in the UK!
'You look Like an Easter Island statue with an arse full of razor blades.'
And he went on to be PM.
This will not need to happen too many times before M&S change their policy. We are fortunate to have competitive markets in this country.